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megimoo
01-27-2011, 04:50 PM
Stoned to death with her lover: Horrific video of execution of girl, 19, killed by Afghan Taliban for running away from arranged marriage

* TALIBAN SPOKESMAN: 'Anyone who knows about Islam knows that stoning is in the Koran, and that it is Islamic law. There are people who call it inhuman - but in doing so they insult the Prophet. They want to bring foreign thinking to this country'

WARNING GRAPHIC CONTENT

Horrific video footage has emerged of Taliban insurgents stoning a couple to death for alleged adultery in northern Afghanistan.Hundreds of villagers can be seen on the video standing around as the woman, Siddqa, is buried up to her waist in a four foot hole in the ground.

Two mullahs pass sentence before the crowd begins to throw rocks at her head and body as she desperately tries to crawl free.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1350945/Horrific-video-emerges-Taliban-fighters-stoning-couple-death-adultery.html

AmPat
01-27-2011, 05:00 PM
THIS,,,,,,,,,,,,

Is what the left wants us to tolerate.

THIS,,,,,,,,,

Is what the left calls a religion of peace.

THIS,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Is what the left considers more acceptable than Christianity.

Nuff said.:(

NJCardFan
01-27-2011, 10:36 PM
And for some reason, leftists in this country don't consider this a human rights violation.

Articulate_Ape
01-27-2011, 11:01 PM
Fucking savages. The women and children in that crowd aren't "innocent civilians", none of them are.

Rockntractor
01-27-2011, 11:02 PM
Fucking savages. The women and children in that crowd aren't "innocent civilians", none of them are.

A great spot for a bomb test.

Articulate_Ape
01-27-2011, 11:12 PM
A great spot for a bomb test.

Or two. :mad:

NJCardFan
01-27-2011, 11:53 PM
That's why I'm in favor of carpet bombing these shit holes. They bring nothing to the world in any way, shape, or form and the one's who are worth anything, leave the first chance they get.

Calypso Jones
01-28-2011, 12:19 AM
It's absolutely barbaric. And do you hear a word from the international community? ha! Let one of the US States put a murderer to death with a squeaky clean prick of one little needle and the world goes absolutely apoplectic.

Rockntractor
01-28-2011, 12:32 AM
The only possible thing that might give you some solace is that the victims were probably in the last murderous mob at the last execution cheering it on.

Gingersnap
01-28-2011, 12:37 AM
Where is NOW and Michelle Obama? I couldn't watch it. I saw one stoning several years ago on a clip; that was it for me. :mad:

Rockntractor
01-28-2011, 12:39 AM
Where is NOW and Michelle Obama? I couldn't watch it. I saw one stoning several years ago on a clip; that was it for me. :mad:

I don't watch any of it, the beheading are far more than I want to see.

Calypso Jones
01-28-2011, 01:01 AM
the girl was nineteen years old and her father had sold her into a marriage for @9000 dollars equiv. She ran off with this guy. he was married with 2 kids. They came back because they were told nothing would happen to them and they'd be safe. Taken at 2 in the morning, tried and then put to death. this began in august and culminated in October 2010. Did someone report them for the taliban to follow thru? Who? her father? her rejected husband? The adulterer's wife?

noonwitch
01-28-2011, 10:20 AM
THIS,,,,,,,,,,,,

Is what the left wants us to tolerate.

THIS,,,,,,,,,

Is what the left calls a religion of peace.

THIS,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Is what the left considers more acceptable than Christianity.

Nuff said.:(


We shouldn't tolerate this ever in our country. But what level of responsibility does the US have to stop it in other countries, and does this type of action justify the level of intervention required to prevent this from happening in places on the other side of the globe?


I am not defending Islam at large, but I will defend moderate muslims who don't practice their religion to this extreme.

Rockntractor
01-28-2011, 10:33 AM
We shouldn't tolerate this ever in our country. But what level of responsibility does the US have to stop it in other countries, and does this type of action justify the level of intervention required to prevent this from happening in places on the other side of the globe?


I am not defending Islam at large, but I will defend moderate muslims who don't practice their religion to this extreme.

But she was just a little girl!

AmPat
01-28-2011, 12:56 PM
We shouldn't tolerate this ever in our country. But what level of responsibility does the US have to stop it in other countries, and does this type of action justify the level of intervention required to prevent this from happening in places on the other side of the globe?


I am not defending Islam at large, but I will defend moderate muslims who don't practice their religion to this extreme.

I don't give a hoot in hell for other countries. I am speaking to the tendency of our own home grown, ignorant, stupid liberals who believe that accepting this "religion," as normal in the name of tolerance, is the only course of action. I believe that the moon god cult should be treated as the violent movement that we all know it to be.

"Moderate muslims'" no such thing!:cool:
Where are the massive protests against this TYPICAL muslim activity from those invisible moderates we keep hearing about? :cool:

noonwitch
01-28-2011, 02:01 PM
I don't give a hoot in hell for other countries. I am speaking to the tendency of our own home grown, ignorant, stupid liberals who believe that accepting this "religion," as normal in the name of tolerance, is the only course of action. I believe that the moon god cult should be treated as the violent movement that we all know it to be.

"Moderate muslims'" no such thing!:cool:
Where are the massive protests against this TYPICAL muslim activity from those invisible moderates we keep hearing about? :cool:




There are moderate muslims, they just aren't the loudest voices in Islam. And most of them live in the USA.

Muhammed Ali has spoken out against this type of thing. I'm just not sure he can physically still speak. I'm no fan of the Nation of Islam, and I still think Farrakhan had a hand in Malcolm X's death, but the few people I know professionally who are members of NOI always condemn the mistreatment, torture and murder of women in the name of the Allah, along with condemning terrorism. My main fault with them is their anti-semitism.

AmPat
01-28-2011, 03:00 PM
There are moderate muslims, they just aren't the loudest voices in Islam. And most of them live in the USA.

Muhammed Ali has spoken out against this type of thing. I'm just not sure he can physically still speak. I'm no fan of the Nation of Islam, and I still think Farrakhan had a hand in Malcolm X's death, but the few people I know professionally who are members of NOI always condemn the mistreatment, torture and murder of women in the name of the Allah, along with condemning terrorism. My main fault with them is their anti-semitism.
One more time:


Where are the massive protests against this TYPICAL muslim activity from those invisible moderates we keep hearing about?

Novaheart
01-28-2011, 03:08 PM
Fuck Islam.
Fuck the prophet.
Fuck morons who believe in such bullshit.
Fuck barbarians who stone people to death for stupid shit (though we might consider it for its deterrence value in the US for cop killers but I digress)
Islam is a cancer.
The best way to deal with Islam is aerial spraying.

Next up LDS

PoliCon
01-28-2011, 03:19 PM
Fuck Islam.
Fuck the prophet.
Fuck morons who believe in such bullshit.
Fuck barbarians who stone people to death for stupid shit (though we might consider it for its deterrence value in the US for cop killers but I digress)
Islam is a cancer.
The best way to deal with Islam is aerial spraying.

Next up LDS

And you wonder why gheys have a reputation for being over sexed and promiscuous. :rolleyes:

Novaheart
01-28-2011, 03:23 PM
And you wonder why gheys have a reputation for being over sexed and promiscuous. :rolleyes:

I'm afraid to use the more correct verb on a bulletin board for fear of being accused of making death threats. Am I too cautious?

Kay
01-29-2011, 12:06 AM
The only possible thing that might give you some solace is that the victims were probably in the last murderous mob at the last execution cheering it on.

That is so very true, glad you brought that up.


There are moderate muslims, they just aren't the loudest voices in Islam. And most of them live in the USA.

I disagree with you noonwitch. There are only two kinds of muslims.
The vicious violent ones and the able to act well behaved when in public
ones. There's no such thing as a good one. It's a religious cult of hate.

They are not the loudest voices in Islam because they know what the
penalty is for speaking up. They would either be stoned, or beheaded,
or shot in the head in a soccer stadium. Even in the US - honor kilted.

Kay
01-29-2011, 12:07 AM
Fuck Islam.
Fuck the prophet.
Fuck morons who believe in such bullshit.
Fuck barbarians who stone people to death for stupid shit (though we might consider it for its deterrence value in the US for cop killers but I digress)
Islam is a cancer.
The best way to deal with Islam is aerial spraying.

Next up LDS

Exactly. I agree with all you said Nova.

NJCardFan
01-29-2011, 12:51 AM
Fuck Islam.
Fuck the prophet.
Fuck morons who believe in such bullshit.
Fuck barbarians who stone people to death for stupid shit (though we might consider it for its deterrence value in the US for cop killers but I digress)
Islam is a cancer.
The best way to deal with Islam is aerial spraying.

Next up LDS

Gee, sounds like hate speech to me.

Madisonian
01-29-2011, 10:47 AM
Gee, sounds like hate speech to me.

From someone who is gay, so that settles it.
Gays are a terrorist hate group.:D

Lanie
01-29-2011, 11:09 AM
Gee, sounds like hate speech to me.

That's our beloved Nova.

I think even though Islam is in the middle ages, we shouldn't hate all Muslims. There are many Muslims for peace. I still believe it's the majority.

But yeah, fuck the Taliban. They need to die.

I guess another way to look at it is to ask what about the women we're defending in this thread? Are they Christian or Atheist? Nope. They're probably Muslim. Just because they think people should be treated like human beings doesn't mean they're not Muslim.

In any theocracy (throughout the ages), it's been ruled by men and it's been ruled with violence. The majority of Muslims in the United States seem to do okay.

Lanie
01-29-2011, 11:13 AM
I disagree with you noonwitch. There are only two kinds of muslims.
The vicious violent ones and the able to act well behaved when in public
ones. There's no such thing as a good one. It's a religious cult of hate.

They are not the loudest voices in Islam because they know what the
penalty is for speaking up. They would either be stoned, or beheaded,
or shot in the head in a soccer stadium. Even in the US - honor kilted.

Well, if they're keeping their mouth shut out of fear, then they're not one of the hateful Muslims.

Kay
01-29-2011, 01:38 PM
Well, if they're keeping their mouth shut out of fear, then they're not one of the hateful Muslims.

Just like with any cult, if they stay in it and
chose to live in fear then I have no sympathy.

AmPat
01-29-2011, 02:49 PM
Just like with any cult, if they stay in it and
chose to live in fear then I have no sympathy.
The biggest problem is those few, (emphasis on few), who don't like or agree with the moon god laws are forced by terror to accept it.

The Arab world allowed this infestation to spread until it was too late instead of exterminating it early. Much like we are doing in the western world, aided and abetted internally by clueless bleeding hearts who fail to learn from history or current events.

France will begin the fall of Europistan followed by Spain etc until complete conquest by the moon god army. The moon god is enforced and backed by entire governments who are intolerant of any competition.:cool:

Lanie
01-30-2011, 10:26 PM
Just like with any cult, if they stay in it and
chose to live in fear then I have no sympathy.

Kay, you usually seem like a really nice person. I think you should pray about this and ask the Lord if he approves of you judging a collective group of people so harshly. This just seems so out of character for you.

AmPat
01-30-2011, 11:07 PM
Kay, you usually seem like a really nice person. I think you should pray about this and ask the Lord if he approves of you judging a collective group of people so harshly. This just seems so out of character for you.

You need to examine your Christian beliefs. Kay said she doesn't "sympathize" with them under certain qualifiers, she never indicated a "judgment" in her post. Those qualifiers were; "if they stay in it and chose to live in fear."

You appear to be doing the judging. :cool:

Calypso Jones
01-31-2011, 02:05 AM
Know what strikes me? They seem to accept their fate rather calmly. I mean, the guy seemed a little upset with the crying. Those that are hanged, seem to just calmly wait there for it to happen. Do you think they are drugged. I can't imagine these barbarians having the least amount of empathy for their victims. They seem to immensely enjoy their own ghoulishness. Does that strike any of you how resigned they are to the horror of their fate?

noonwitch
01-31-2011, 09:56 AM
That is so very true, glad you brought that up.



I disagree with you noonwitch. There are only two kinds of muslims.
The vicious violent ones and the able to act well behaved when in public
ones. There's no such thing as a good one. It's a religious cult of hate.

They are not the loudest voices in Islam because they know what the
penalty is for speaking up. They would either be stoned, or beheaded,
or shot in the head in a soccer stadium. Even in the US - honor kilted.



I actually live in a community that has the largest population of muslims outside of the middle east. I see them, work with them, am neighbors with some, and eat at their restaurants. They come here and they become americans. The fact that there is a large muslim/arab population here makes it easier for the bad elements to hide among them, but the fact is that most of the community in suburbs like Dearborn are from Syria and Lebanon and came here in the 80s. They are established in the community, their kids serve in the military, the girls become westernized in the second generation and they love this country.


I'm not disagreeing with your statement about torture and killing of those who speak out against radical Islam, but the point of terrorism is for a small number of people to inflict maximum damage and use the susequent fear to divide and conquer. If the majority of americans were to suddenly turn on all muslims, then we are actually helping the terrorists by giving the moderates reasons to not identify with american society and values, and find common cause with the bad guys instead.

AmPat
01-31-2011, 11:27 AM
I actually live in a community that has the largest population of muslims outside of the middle east. I see them, work with them, am neighbors with some, and eat at their restaurants. They come here and they become americans. The fact that there is a large muslim/arab population here makes it easier for the bad elements to hide among them, but the fact is that most of the community in suburbs like Dearborn are from Syria and Lebanon and came here in the 80s. They are established in the community, their kids serve in the military, the girls become westernized in the second generation and they love this country.


I'm not disagreeing with your statement about torture and killing of those who speak out against radical Islam, but the point of terrorism is for a small number of people to inflict maximum damage and use the susequent fear to divide and conquer. If the majority of americans were to suddenly turn on all muslims, then we are actually helping the terrorists by giving the moderates reasons to not identify with american society and values, and find common cause with the bad guys instead.

You seem to think that because you are all cozy with the Detroitistan crowd that somehow they like you. They are among the silent who quietly cheer on their brothers. You may find some who disagree, even some who counter protest violence, but they are few.

Calypso Jones
01-31-2011, 11:53 AM
If you look at past history, those westernized muslims are just meek until their brothers and their population rise to the degree that they have nothing to fear from you, Infidel. The only good muslim is a converted to christianity muslim.

noonwitch
01-31-2011, 12:23 PM
You seem to think that because you are all cozy with the Detroitistan crowd that somehow they like you. They are among the silent who quietly cheer on their brothers. You may find some who disagree, even some who counter protest violence, but they are few.

I don't care if they like me or not. I treat people with respect, and get it in return.

I have to deal with superiors, lawyers, mental health professionals, doctors, and judges. Many of them are muslims. It's a part of life in this community. We all get along, too, for the most part, even jews and muslims. This is one of the many reasons our nation is such a great one.


When Jesus said "Love your neighbor as yourself", there wasn't an asterik with exceptions. Not for muslims, not for gays, not for atheists. Jesus knew that not all of them were going to love us back, but he told us to do it anyways.

AmPat
01-31-2011, 01:51 PM
I don't care if they like me or not. I treat people with respect, and get it in return.

I have to deal with superiors, lawyers, mental health professionals, doctors, and judges. Many of them are muslims. It's a part of life in this community. We all get along, too, for the most part, even jews and muslims. This is one of the many reasons our nation is such a great one.


When Jesus said "Love your neighbor as yourself", there wasn't an asterik with exceptions. Not for muslims, not for gays, not for atheists. Jesus knew that not all of them were going to love us back, but he told us to do it anyways.

Love, but verify.:cool:

PoliCon
01-31-2011, 11:30 PM
I don't care if they like me or not. I treat people with respect, and get it in return.

I have to deal with superiors, lawyers, mental health professionals, doctors, and judges. Many of them are muslims. It's a part of life in this community. We all get along, too, for the most part, even jews and muslims. This is one of the many reasons our nation is such a great one.


When Jesus said "Love your neighbor as yourself", there wasn't an asterik with exceptions. Not for muslims, not for gays, not for atheists. Jesus knew that not all of them were going to love us back, but he told us to do it anyways.

Her also tells us to preach the gospel to ALL the world as well. Are you truly loving your neighbor if you never take the time to tell them about Jesus? Just a thought.

noonwitch
02-01-2011, 10:16 AM
Her also tells us to preach the gospel to ALL the world as well. Are you truly loving your neighbor if you never take the time to tell them about Jesus? Just a thought.


You can preach the gospel or you can demonstrate it with the way you live your life. I prefer to let people ask me about my beliefs and have a conversation than to loudly proclaim them to anyone in listening reach.

AmPat
02-01-2011, 10:27 AM
You can preach the gospel or you can demonstrate it with the way you live your life. I prefer to let people ask me about my beliefs and have a conversation than to loudly proclaim them to anyone in listening reach.

That is not what Jesus taught. Be consistent or don't sic Jesus on people.
Jesus said; "Go ye therefore and teach,,,,,,/baptize,,,,,,,,,,,/observe,,,,,,,,."
Your "preferences" are of little concern to God.

Calypso Jones
02-01-2011, 10:32 AM
Muslims have no respect for christians. It appears to me that they show some deference UNtil such time as they reach significant portions of the population in the area of the world they live. THEN all hell breaks loose.

PoliCon
02-01-2011, 11:00 AM
You can preach the gospel or you can demonstrate it with the way you live your life. I prefer to let people ask me about my beliefs and have a conversation than to loudly proclaim them to anyone in listening reach.

I agree with you in theory. St. Francis of Assisi said: “Preach the Gospel at all times and when necessary use words.” and “It is no use walking anywhere to preach unless our walking is our preaching.” But then his life was an extremely overt living of the gospel. If I go to work and dress modestly and speak modestly and never stand out - am showing my faith? Or am I just fading into the background? It's not enough for us to go through life blending in and to then say we demonstrate our faith through how we live our lives.

People like St. Francis and Mother Teresa of Calcutta are people that can say that they demonstrated their faith through how they lived their lives. Is there any question to what either of them believed? Their beliefs were completely expressed in their lifestyles - but they both lived very radical and outstanding lives. Do we do the same?

I know speaking for myself that I try to make how I conduct my life show my faith. We're living here in a poor neighborhood - we've taken in at risk kids into my home and am going out of my way to give them not only a chance, but a foundation for the rest of their lives. We live modestly. We've both done mission work both domestically and internationally - but does that mean my faith is clear in my day to day life? I'd like to think that in many ways it is - but is it enough for people to come to me and ask what I believe? We neglect our duty to our fellow man when we fail to share with them the gospel message.

MrsSmith
02-01-2011, 11:03 AM
Fundamentalist Muslims use stoning to punish the disobedient, bomb civilians at every opportunity, and try to control the world through fear and death.

Fundamentalist Christians go on mission trips to assist the needy. They donate their own money (not tax money from the rich) to food pantries, crisis pregnancy centers, homeless shelters, etc. They donate and go on mission trips to provide food, water, shelter, education, and medical help to the poorest in the world. They try to control the world by living Christ's command to love our enemies, and do good to those that hate us.

Yet, somehow, a huge number of people truly believe that "religion is evil," and Christians = Muslims. :rolleyes:

Odysseus
02-01-2011, 11:16 AM
Fundamentalist Muslims use stoning to punish the disobedient, bomb civilians at every opportunity, and try to control the world through fear and death.

Fundamentalist Christians go on mission trips to assist the needy. They donate their own money (not tax money from the rich) to food pantries, crisis pregnancy centers, homeless shelters, etc. They donate and go on mission trips to provide food, water, shelter, education, and medical help to the poorest in the world. They try to control the world by living Christ's command to love our enemies, and do good to those that hate us.

Yet, somehow, a huge number of people truly believe that "religion is evil," and Christians = Muslims. :rolleyes:

I'll see that and raise you Judaism. There has never been a requirement for Jews to prosletiyze or convert anyone, and yet Muslims loathe us more than they do Christians. They disseminate the vilest libels, murder Jews whenever they can (the Mumbai attack singled out the Chabad House and murdered the rabbi and his pregnant wife after torturing them), and liberals not only ignore it, they parrot the anti-Israeli BS and equate Islamist atrocities wth legitimate acts of defense.

But, I've had enough. From now on, they're paying retail for everything!

Calypso Jones
02-01-2011, 11:38 AM
Jesus Himself ate with and taught sinners and tax collectors (Matthew 9:10). And they were probably worse than muslims. ;-D In essence, the instruction in verse 6 is the same that Jesus gave to His apostles when He said: “If anyone will not welcome you or listen to your words, shake the dust off your feet when you leave that home or town” (Matthew 10:14).

We are not to judge others, for we are guilty of the same things they are. Reserving judgment, however, does not prevent us from discerning those who would accept, or at least respect, the gospel from those who would ridicule, mock, and trample it, and then turn on us and abuse us. Balancing judgment with discernment is the wisdom of serpents Jesus refers to in Matthew 10:16.

Kay
02-01-2011, 11:40 AM
You seem to think that because you are all cozy with the Detroitistan crowd that somehow they like you. They are among the silent who quietly cheer on their brothers. You may find some who disagree, even some who counter protest violence, but they are few.


If you look at past history, those westernized muslims are just meek until their brothers and their population rise to the degree that they have nothing to fear from you, Infidel. The only good muslim is a converted to christianity muslim.


It appears to me that they show some deference UNtil such time as they reach significant portions of the population in the area of the world they live. THEN all hell breaks loose.

I agree with all the above. That's the way they operate, they quietly infiltrate society and blend in until they take over. It's like having roaches in your house. You ignore one or two, don't see the ones crawling around at night while your asleep and then before you know it you flip on the light one dark night and they are swarming all over and it's a major battle to get them under control. Better to take offensive action and exterminate before they get out of hand I say.


Kay, you usually seem like a really nice person. I think you should pray about this and ask the Lord if he approves of you judging a collective group of people so harshly. This just seems so out of character for you.

I am a Christian, but I've always been drawn more to and read more from the Old Testaments. God the Father was pretty non-forgiving and liked to smote whole groups of people at a time when they got out of line. He sent His Son to intercede for us, I suppose before we all suffered his wrath to extinction. The lessons given us by the Son, were lessons of peace and love and forgiveness - or else; the 'or else' being to suffer the wrath of the Father. I don't read anywhere into that global all inclusive acceptance of even the evil ones who refuse to heed the lessons of the Son.

I do not see anything in the muslim religion that my God would approve of.

Lanie, if that seems out of character for your perception of me thus far, you don't know me very well yet. I'm extremely black and white on most issues with no tolerance for shades of grey. I find the whole entire collective group of people that belong to the muslim religion to be members of an age old evil cult. This isn't some new group that cropped up in recent times, they are an ancient force of evil going back to biblical times. The struggle between good and evil has been around since dirt. They are the evil.

MrsSmith
02-01-2011, 11:47 AM
I'll see that and raise you Judaism. There has never been a requirement for Jews to prosletiyze or convert anyone, and yet Muslims loathe us more than they do Christians. They disseminate the vilest libels, murder Jews whenever they can (the Mumbai attack singled out the Chabad House and murdered the rabbi and his pregnant wife after torturing them), and liberals not only ignore it, they parrot the anti-Israeli BS and equate Islamist atrocities wth legitimate acts of defense.

But, I've had enough. From now on, they're paying retail for everything!

To many leftist nutcases, proselytize = bombing and torturing civilians. There is just no cure for some kinds of stupid...

Calypso Jones
02-01-2011, 11:57 AM
yesYES! This is not a valid religion. This uneducated, pedophilic, middle eastern L. Ron Hubbard equivalent STOLE the concept of the Torah and Biblical teachings. I cannot understand why ANYONE would give so much respect to a plagiarist and a huge group of people who are very clear about what they intend to do with the rest of us while their less vocal brethren sit and patiently wait. Little respect is given to mormonism yet the tolerant left will go into contortions to defend muslims. ANd STILL we wait to hear the voices of those moderate muslims. There are NONE.

megimoo
02-01-2011, 01:51 PM
I'll see that and raise you Judaism. There has never been a requirement for Jews to prosletiyze or convert anyone, and yet Muslims loathe us more than they do Christians. They disseminate the vilest libels, murder Jews whenever they can (the Mumbai attack singled out the Chabad House and murdered the rabbi and his pregnant wife after torturing them), and liberals not only ignore it, they parrot the anti-Israeli BS and equate Islamist atrocities wth legitimate acts of defense.

But, I've had enough. From now on, they're paying retail for everything!Even on Mondays ?

Odysseus
02-01-2011, 02:54 PM
Even on Mondays ?

Especially on Mondays. In fact, I'm going to add a Monday surcharge! :D

Lanie
02-01-2011, 09:34 PM
Lanie, if that seems out of character for your perception of me thus far, you don't know me very well yet. I'm extremely black and white on most issues with no tolerance for shades of grey. I find the whole entire collective group of people that belong to the muslim religion to be members of an age old evil cult. This isn't some new group that cropped up in recent times, they are an ancient force of evil going back to biblical times. The struggle between good and evil has been around since dirt. They are the evil.

Since biblical times? The religion started in about 700 AD.

I also very much believe in the God of the Old Testament. I also believe that it's God's right alone to condemn an entire group of people. Notice God often punished those he allowed to be the tools of his wrath.

The problem with black and white is that this is NOT black and white. Islam started off a religion in the middle east that stressed monotheism. It stressed monotheism in a land that was mostly polytheistic. They helped encouraged people to worship only one God and that alone is a very redeeming quality to me. So I'll move onto the next argument. The next argument is that they used violence to spread their religion. Even my fundamentalist Christian sister said "Uh, excuse me?" to that one. lol. She said that because Christianity did the same thing. And truth is the Muslims didn't start using violence until violence was used upon them. People in the area felt the religion was a threat, so they tried to kill the new followers. Their options were to fight, deconvert, or just die. They chose to fight. Once there was a takeover, freedom of religion was allowed for Jews and Christians. Unlike Christian countries, they didn't chase out people from the other two religions. They believed as long as the Jews and Christians would live peacefully with them, then they could stay and practice openly. Now, Muhummad did take retaliation against those who wanted to overthrow them too far. So did some of the Christian leaders at that time. They forced a tax upon Jews and Christians there. Very wrong, but not as bad as killing people for not converting as Christian countries did at that time. I've read parts of the Koran. It said that "people of the book" stood a chance for salvation and that Muslims should live peacefully with them. That's a redeeming value to me.

They were a backward religion, but so were the others for their time. They didn't start getting as intolerant as they are now until Europe and the West started threatening them. They saw it as a threat to their religion. Unlike Christianity and Judaism, they never progressed in their religion. This is a problem in the days of nuclear technology, so we need to fight them back. That doesn't mean judging a collective group of people. Truth is for centuries they did live in peace with people.

on edit: Back to the "God of the Old Testament" stuff. One thing about the Old Testament is that God does sometimes severely punish his own people. He's not above doing that today. I'm pretty sure he's going to bring down wrath upon Muslim leaders and other Muslims who behave this evil. I'm also sure he's gonna do it to parts of the RCC (for the pedophilia). I'm not equating the two. My point is that I think even if people from a particular group can go to Heaven one day, I'm sure sure God is going to severely punish other segments of it (and of course the good ones will unfortunately feel the pain). Oh, and for anybody wanting to scream out that I hate Catholics, I am one. I just also believe in God's wrath. I am strict on the belief that God should be the one to make that call. Violence should only be done to save lives. While it may be necessary to get violent with a lot of Muslims, the idea of eradicating all of them is evil. No less evil than the ones condemned here. It's God's call to eradicate an entire group of people, not ours.

Kay
02-02-2011, 12:42 AM
They didn't start getting as intolerant as they are now
until Europe and the West started threatening them.

Oh well that just explains it all then. It's all our fault :rolleyes:

Rockntractor
02-02-2011, 12:47 AM
Oh well that just explains it all then. It's all our fault :rolleyes:

Isn't it unusual that the only period in history that the Muslims have behaved was when they were under British and other foreign rule!

PoliCon
02-02-2011, 01:06 AM
They were a backward religion, but so were the others for their time. They didn't start getting as intolerant as they are now until Europe and the West started threatening them. They saw it as a threat to their religion. Unlike Christianity and Judaism, they never progressed in their religion. This is a problem in the days of nuclear technology, so we need to fight them back. That doesn't mean judging a collective group of people. Truth is for centuries they did live in peace with people.

Lanie - you realize that this claim is basically bullshit right? They've been predominantly intolerant from the very inception of the religion - and remember - they were the ones who invaded Christian lands beginning in the 7th century not the other way round.

fettpett
02-02-2011, 08:39 AM
Lanie - you realize that this claim is basically bullshit right? They've been predominantly intolerant from the very inception of the religion - and remember - they were the ones who invaded Christian lands beginning in the 7th century not the other way round.

Lanie is historically ignorant. IDK if it's worth the time to try and educate the idiot

Space Gravy
02-02-2011, 09:57 AM
It's absolutely barbaric. And do you hear a word from the international community? ha! Let one of the US States put a murderer to death with a squeaky clean prick of one little needle and the world goes absolutely apoplectic.

You got that right.

Odysseus
02-02-2011, 12:22 PM
They helped encouraged people to worship only one God and that alone is a very redeeming quality to me.

Even if that one God demanded the complete destruction of all other cultures that came under its influence, as Islam did?


So I'll move onto the next argument. The next argument is that they used violence to spread their religion. Even my fundamentalist Christian sister said "Uh, excuse me?" to that one. lol. She said that because Christianity did the same thing.

She's wrong. Christianity was persecuted by Rome because the early Christians advocated peace, something that undermined the military foundations of the Roman Empire. Officially sanctioned (and instigated) persecution continued into the 4th century, when Constantine I converted. In 380AD, Emperor Theodosius I established Christianity as the official religion of the Roman Empire. That is how it was spread, through conversion and prosletyzing, not violence.


And truth is the Muslims didn't start using violence until violence was used upon them. People in the area felt the religion was a threat, so they tried to kill the new followers. Their options were to fight, deconvert, or just die. They chose to fight.
False!!! Even Muslim historians acknowledge that Mecca was extremely tolerant of Muhammad's preaching. Mecca was an open city in which Polytheists, Jews and Christians lived and worshipped, and the city depended on the revenues from the holy months, when pagan pilgrims would come to worship at the Kaaba. It wasn't until Mohammed cursed the other religions and threatened the livelyhood of the city that they took issue with him, and even then, the Meccans tried to negotiate with him, rather than fight:


When the apostle openly displayed Islam as Allah ordered him, his people did not withdraw or turn against him, so far as I have heard, until he spoke disparagingly of their gods. When he did that, they took great offence and resolved unanimously to treat him as an enemy. (Ibn Ishaq 167)
At first, the Meccans asked Mohammed to tone it down, but he refused:


[The Meccans] said they had never known anything like the trouble they had endured from this fellow. He had declared their mode of life foolish, insulted their forefathers, reviled their religion, divided the community and cursed their gods (Ibn Ishaq 183).

So, Mohammed insulted the other religions, caused division and threatened the local economy, through attacking the annual pilgrimage. And even then, the Meccans tried to accomodate Mohammed:

T
hey decided to send for Muhammad and to negotiate and argue with him... When he came and sat down with them, they explained that that they had sent for him in order that they could talk together. No Arab had ever treated his tribe as Muhammad had treated them, and they repeated the charges... If it was money he wanted, they would make him the richest of them all; if it was honor, he should be their prince; if it was sovereignty, they would make him king. (Ibn Ishaq 188)

Mohammed temporarily agreed to respect the other religions, which led to the incident of the Satanic Verses, in which Mohammed accepted the religons of Mecca, a statement that confused and angered his followers, at which point, he reversed himself and claimed that he had been deceived by Satan, and the revelation was false. But when he had issued the first edict, embracing the other religions, the locals were ecstatic:


When [the Meccans] heard that, they rejoiced. What he had said about their gods pleased and delighted them, and they gave ear to him… When he came to the prostration and finished the chapter, he prostrated and the Muslims followed their prophet in it, having faith in what he brought them and obeying his command. Those mushrikūn of Quraysh and others who were in the mosque also prostrated on account of what they had heard him say about their gods. In the whole mosque there was no believer or kāfir who did not prostrate. (al-Tabari, the Tarikh Vol. 1)

Then, when Mohammed reneged, tensions rose and eventually, he wore out his welcome.


Once there was a takeover, freedom of religion was allowed for Jews and Christians. Unlike Christian countries, they didn't chase out people from the other two religions. They believed as long as the Jews and Christians would live peacefully with them, then they could stay and practice openly.

Again, false. Dhimmitude, the miposition of second-class status for Christians and Jews, was more than just paying the Jizya (which, BTW, often rose well beyond the means of the dhimmis to pay it, at which point their property, even their children, were taken from them as "compensation" for the Muslims). And this is no aberation. There are roughly 500 verses in the Qur’an that speak of Allah’s (i.e., Mohammed's) hatred for non-believers and the punishments that await. When Mohammed returned to Mecca, he demanded the eviction or death of anyone who would not convert to Islam, and his murder of the Jews of the Arabian Peninsula is well documented.


Now, Muhummad did take retaliation against those who wanted to overthrow them too far. So did some of the Christian leaders at that time. They forced a tax upon Jews and Christians there. Very wrong, but not as bad as killing people for not converting as Christian countries did at that time. I've read parts of the Koran. It said that "people of the book" stood a chance for salvation and that Muslims should live peacefully with them. That's a redeeming value to me.

Religious minorities have spent centuries under institutionalized persecution and discrimination. Forced conversions were common, and the horrific nature of dhimmitude worked to convert many more. What you claim was freedom of worship was, in fact, vicious discrimination. Christans and Jews were barred from not only building new churches or synagogues, but even reparing old ones. Historically, dhimmis had to wear distinguishing clothing or wear special badges that showed their inferiority and humiliation (the Nazi practice of imposing the yellow Star of David on Jews came from the Muslim practice). The payment of the jizya is meant, not to raise revenue, but to demonstrate submission and abasement before Islam. Those who cannot pay are often killed or their children were enslaved. The Ottman Turks even manned their army with Christian children who had been taken away and forcibly converted into Jannisaries. For non-Christians or Jews, such as Hindus or Buddhists, the policies were even more extreme. Tens of millions were murdered by Muslim conquerors (including Tamerlane, who combined Mongol tactical brilliance with Islamic bloodlust, to horrific effect).

In short, Lanie, you are wrong on every aspect of your understanding of the history of Islam and violence.

noonwitch
02-03-2011, 11:00 AM
Religious minorities have spent centuries under institutionalized persecution and discrimination. Forced conversions were common, and the horrific nature of dhimmitude worked to convert many more. What you claim was freedom of worship was, in fact, vicious discrimination. Christans and Jews were barred from not only building new churches or synagogues, but even reparing old ones. Historically, dhimmis had to wear distinguishing clothing or wear special badges that showed their inferiority and humiliation (the Nazi practice of imposing the yellow Star of David on Jews came from the Muslim practice). The payment of the jizya is meant, not to raise revenue, but to demonstrate submission and abasement before Islam. Those who cannot pay are often killed or their children were enslaved. The Ottman Turks even manned their army with Christian children who had been taken away and forcibly converted into Jannisaries. For non-Christians or Jews, such as Hindus or Buddhists, the policies were even more extreme. Tens of millions were murdered by Muslim conquerors (including Tamerlane, who combined Mongol tactical brilliance with Islamic bloodlust, to horrific effect).




Hitler once said something to the effect that it would be easier to rule Germany if they were of the Muhammaden faith than it was to rule over christians.


I'm still going to be nice to my muslim neighbors, though, because I'm not judging every person in the faith by the history.

AmPat
02-03-2011, 11:11 AM
Hitler once said something to the effect that it would be easier to rule Germany if they were of the Muhammaden faith than it was to rule over christians.


I'm still going to be nice to my muslim neighbors, though, because I'm not judging every person in the faith by the history.
Noble sentiment. The history of muslims is record of their beliefs. You want to know how they feel? Look at the summation of their history.

Odysseus
02-03-2011, 12:29 PM
Hitler once said something to the effect that it would be easier to rule Germany if they were of the Muhammaden faith than it was to rule over christians.

I'm still going to be nice to my muslim neighbors, though, because I'm not judging every person in the faith by the history.

No one is saying not to be nice, but to be wary. As Reagan said about another foe, "Trust, but verify."

AmPat
02-03-2011, 06:33 PM
Love, but verify.:cool:

Much like this?:cool:

Calypso Jones
02-03-2011, 08:51 PM
You probably oughta also take into account that these moderate muslim neighbors of some egyptian christians took advantage of the riots to kill their christian neighbors...family...including the children. Eleven dead christians counting the kids. So much for their idea of charity.

If you have moderate muslim neighbors? better make sure you have bats, rocks, machetes, guns for when the lights go out.

Madisonian
02-03-2011, 09:44 PM
You probably oughta also take into account that these moderate muslim neighbors of some egyptian christians took advantage of the riots to kill their christian neighbors...family...including the children. Eleven dead christians counting the kids. So much for their idea of charity.

If you have moderate muslim neighbors? better make sure you have bats, rocks, machetes, guns for when the lights go out.

In the end, we are infidels. As long as there are Muslims that believe in the pederast Mohamed (pig piss be upon him), they will want us either paying tribute to him or dead.
They will not stop because they have no reason to.
Europe and the US would rather kiss their collective asses rather than risk offending the cave dwellers and their masses and in the end it won't make one bit of difference to them.
They draw strength from our weakness in dealing with them and the left's appeasement could be our eventual downfall.