PDA

View Full Version : States Most Likely To Go Bankrupt (here's the list of the most heavily indebted state



megimoo
02-03-2011, 06:23 PM
Several states in the Union are discussing bankruptcy, despite opposition in Washington. How bad is it? The Daily Beast crunches the numbers of all 50 states to find who's in the deepest debt—and it isn't who you think.

On Friday, The New York Times reported that policymakers, cognizant that 44 states project budget shortfalls in 2012, were exploring ways to let these states declare bankruptcy. That possibility—forbidden under current law—has been debated all week
snip
#1, Rhode Island
Debt 2009: $9.2 billion
Projected 2012 Budget Shortfall: $290 million
..........
#2, Connecticut
Debt 2009: $28.4 billion
Projected 2012 Budget Shortfall: $3.7 billion
..................
#3, Massachuset
Debt 2009: $74.6 billion
Projected 2012 Budget Shortfall: $1.8 billion
................
#4, Illinoi
Debt 2009: $57.0 billion
Projected 2012 Budget Shortfall: $15.0 billion
..................
#5, Hawaii
Debt 2009: $6.9 billion
Projected 2012 Budget Shortfall: $410 million
....................
#6, New Jersey
Debt 2009: $56.9 billion
Projected 2012 Budget Shortfall: $10.5 billion
......................
#7, New Hampshire
Debt 2009: $8.4 billion
Projected 2012 Budget Shortfall: n/a
.....................
#8, Indiana
Debt 2009: $23.7 billion
Projected 2012 Budget Shortfall: $270 million
.....................
#9, Louisiana
Debt 2009: $17.5 billion
Projected 2012 Budget Shortfall: $1.7 billion
.................
#10, Oklahoma
Debt 2009: $9.9 billion
Projected 2012 Budget Shortfall: $600 million

http://www.thedailybeast.com/galleries/1740/1/

fettpett
02-03-2011, 06:37 PM
from what I've heard, they don't have the Constitutional authority to file bankruptcy because they can raise money through ways that individuals and companies can't.


not that the Constitution ever stopped a liberal

Rockntractor
02-03-2011, 06:43 PM
States have the right to raise property taxes to any level they desire and there is nothing you can do to stop them. We could be saying goodbye to private property ownership before this is all over.

fettpett
02-03-2011, 06:55 PM
States have the right to raise property taxes to any level they desire and there is nothing you can do to stop them. We could be saying goodbye to private property ownership before this is all over.

or they could....idk sell some land or lease it...

NJCardFan
02-03-2011, 07:25 PM
States have the right to raise property taxes to any level they desire and there is nothing you can do to stop them. We could be saying goodbye to private property ownership before this is all over.

Gov. Christie passed a law last year stating that property tax rates cannot be raised more than 2%.

Rockntractor
02-03-2011, 07:35 PM
Gov. Christie passed a law last year stating that property tax rates cannot be raised more than 2%.

Most states don't have anything of the sort, you are fortunate.

Jfor
02-03-2011, 08:28 PM
States have the right to raise property taxes to any level they desire and there is nothing you can do to stop them. We could be saying goodbye to private property ownership before this is all over.

Private property ownership is one of the things that makes this country great. If the states tax property where people cannot afford to pay for their own land. I fear to see what will happen.

Rockntractor
02-03-2011, 08:34 PM
Private property ownership is one of the things that makes this country great. If the states tax property where people cannot afford to pay for their own land. I fear to see what will happen.

So do I, I heard this recently from a respected economist on the radio. I wish I had written down his name, I don't even remember what talk show he was being interviewed on.

Dan D. Doty
02-03-2011, 10:43 PM
Private property ownership is one of the things that makes this country great. If the states tax property where people cannot afford to pay for their own land. I fear to see what will happen.

Then you'll see the greatest land grab in history ... and a LOT of Trouble, with a capital " T ".

Jfor
02-03-2011, 11:38 PM
Then you'll see the greatest land grab in history ... and a LOT of Trouble, with a capital " T ".

That is what scares me.

PoliCon
02-03-2011, 11:56 PM
why is it when there is such a huge budget shortfall - no one talks of drastic spending cuts? Why do they always turn to drastic tax hikes?? :rolleyes: These states should liquidate the bulk of the state owned properties - privatize what they can and CLOSE DOWN what is simply not needed - and cut the rest.

Rockntractor
02-04-2011, 12:01 AM
why is it when there is such a huge budget shortfall - no one talks of drastic spending cuts? Why do they always turn to drastic tax hikes?? :rolleyes: These states should liquidate the bulk of the state owned properties - privatize what they can and CLOSE DOWN what is simply not needed - and cut the rest.
You are talking about the financial security of countless bureaucrats and politicians, It is us or them and they will hang on as long as possible. They have bigger guns and lots of cages.

PoliCon
02-04-2011, 12:07 AM
You are talking about the financial security of countless bureaucrats and politicians, It is us or them and they will hang on as long as possible. They have bigger guns and lots of cages.

time to throw the bastards out . . . . and time to institute term limits . . . time to outlaw unions for government employees . . . time to cut the perks and pensions of politicians and bureaucrats alike.

megimoo
02-04-2011, 12:13 AM
time to throw the bastards out . . . . and time to institute term limits . . . time to outlaw unions for government employees . . . time to cut the perks and pensions of politicians and bureaucrats alike.Thomas Paine....Is that you ?

PoliCon
02-04-2011, 12:16 AM
Thomas Paine....Is that you ?

absolutely fuck all not. :mad: I have very little respect for that man. In fact - I have just about as much respect for him as his contemporaries did - which is to almost none at all.

Rockntractor
02-04-2011, 12:17 AM
time to throw the bastards out . . . . and time to institute term limits . . . time to outlaw unions for government employees . . . time to cut the perks and pensions of politicians and bureaucrats alike.

Which is what the teapartiers say.

PoliCon
02-04-2011, 12:18 AM
Which is what the teapartiers say.

and do I ever criticize them?? :p NOPE!

Rockntractor
02-04-2011, 12:22 AM
and do I ever criticize them?? :p NOPE!

I know you don't but there are many on the board that do that want all of the things you mentioned.

Madisonian
02-04-2011, 07:39 AM
absolutely fuck all not. :mad: I have very little respect for that man. In fact - I have just about as much respect for him as his contemporaries did - which is to almost none at all.
Just curious...
What is the reason for your disdain of Thomas Paine?

PoliCon
02-04-2011, 08:15 AM
Just curious...
What is the reason for your disdain of Thomas Paine?

The same reason his contemporaries disdained him. He always took things too far. His Rights of Man was reasonable, rational, and poignant. But of course, he wasn't happy and took things too far.

megimoo
02-04-2011, 08:31 AM
The same reason his contemporaries disdained him. He always took things too far. His Rights of Man was reasonable, rational, and poignant. But of course, he wasn't happy and took things too far.
Show us an example of where he "went too far" to you're obvious disdain for the man .

Madisonian
02-04-2011, 08:38 AM
The same reason his contemporaries disdained him. He always took things too far. His Rights of Man was reasonable, rational, and poignant. But of course, he wasn't happy and took things too far.
I thought his Common Sense and The Age of Reason were also quite reasonable and rational for the time.

Most seem to discredit Paine because he was a Deist, by which standard one would also have to disavow Jefferson, Madison, Franklin, Adams and other Founding Fathers which shared Paine's skepticism in organized religion.

noonwitch
02-04-2011, 08:52 AM
time to throw the bastards out . . . . and time to institute term limits . . . time to outlaw unions for government employees . . . time to cut the perks and pensions of politicians and bureaucrats alike.



We have term limits in Michigan. It didn't really work so much for us in the last decade or so, except it kept Jenny G from running for a 3rd term.

As a bureacrat with a pension and who is a union member: I like my pension. Anyone hired after 97 doesn't have one, so reforming that system really has already happened.

I admit to being divided over my union-I like some of the people in the local and hate the UAW overall leadership. I don't think public employee unions should be outlawed, but they need to be curtailed to the point where their main focus is on working conditions, contract negotiation and representing worker grievances. I think that government employees' unions should not be allowed to donate to political campaigns, although I support the right of unions in the private sector to do so. In other words, we should have a union that is not part of the UAW, which is a private sector union, for the most part. I think it's both to the employees' benefit and the public's to do that. It's not good, for example, that my union spent a fortune on Virg Bernero's campaign for governor (or any democrat) because if the opponent wins and he hates unions, it can negatively affect working conditions, and it leads to constant legal struggles between the sides.


On the other hand, I am impressed with our new governor. He took on the crook (who is also one of Detroit's worst slumlords) who owns the Ambassador Bridge (and his cronies in both parties), and negotiated a great deal with Ontario to build a new bridge for truck traffic. He got the Canadians to promise to finance construction, and we can pay them back out of our share of bridge tolls once it's open for business. Then, he went to DC and got the feds to promise some matching funds for the necessary freeway exchange construction that will be part of it. This is really important to Michigan business and to Detroit.

I also like who he picked to run our department. I think the nerd is going to save Michigan, like he promised.

PoliCon
02-04-2011, 09:05 AM
We have term limits in Michigan. It didn't really work so much for us in the last decade or so, except it kept Jenny G from running for a 3rd term. politics should NEVER be a career. When you instituted term limits did you also take away the life time pensions as well?


As a bureacrat with a pension and who is a union member: I like my pension. Anyone hired after 97 doesn't have one, so reforming that system really has already happened. and what are **you** willing to sacrifice?


I admit to being divided over my union-I like some of the people in the local and hate the UAW overall leadership. I don't think public employee unions should be outlawed, but they need to be curtailed to the point where their main focus is on working conditions, contract negotiation and representing worker grievances. I think that government employees' unions should not be allowed to donate to political campaigns, although I support the right of unions in the private sector to do so. In other words, we should have a union that is not part of the UAW, which is a private sector union, for the most part. I think it's both to the employees' benefit and the public's to do that. It's not good, for example, that my union spent a fortune on Virg Bernero's campaign for governor (or any democrat) because if the opponent wins and he hates unions, it can negatively affect working conditions, and it leads to constant legal struggles between the sides. I disagree. They need to be outlawed. The VOTERS are you union and your bosses. If you have issue - take it to the people and let them vote you a raise or whatever.

PoliCon
02-04-2011, 09:10 AM
I thought his Common Sense and The Age of Reason were also quite reasonable and rational for the time.

Most seem to discredit Paine because he was a Deist, by which standard one would also have to disavow Jefferson, Madison, Franklin, Adams and other Founding Fathers which shared Paine's skepticism in organized religion.

I disagree. Paine was an atheist not a deist and his attack was not just on organized religion but on faith in general - this was one of the main reasons his contemporaries ridiculed and exiled him. Even Franklin spoke against him for his idiotic attack on faith and religion.

Oh and BTW - your claims that most of the founding fathers were deists is unsupported. In their own words and the opinions of their contemporaries this is not true. Jefferson especially is greatly misunderstood, misquoted, and his beliefs twisted to suit the ends of people who want him above all to be an unbeliever.

Now if anyone wants to continue this discussion they are more than welcome to start a thread on the topic.

Rebel Yell
02-04-2011, 09:16 AM
why is it when there is such a huge budget shortfall - no one talks of drastic spending cuts? Why do they always turn to drastic tax hikes?? :rolleyes: These states should liquidate the bulk of the state owned properties - privatize what they can and CLOSE DOWN what is simply not needed - and cut the rest.

Governor Deal called in the heads of every state department and told them they had to cut at least 7% from there budget. Some, he made cut more.

noonwitch
02-04-2011, 09:43 AM
[QUOTE=PoliCon;370296] and what are **you** willing to sacrifice?
QUOTE]


I've already taken several pay cuts. None of the legislators have, though. I think it's time for them to make some sacrifices.

Gingersnap
02-04-2011, 09:54 AM
Gee, maybe all these states should legalize weed. Not only would the deficits be made up (many times over) but the citizenry would be a lot more relaxed and mellow.

Heck, out here in Colorado everybody already thinks the governor does a little wake-n-bake every morning anyway. :D

NJCardFan
02-04-2011, 09:55 AM
and what are **you** willing to sacrifice?
My life. It's an occupational hazard. But in my state, the governor did away with SLI(State Liability Insurance) which was an insurance where if I got injured on the job, my benefits and regular pay will still be made as though I were working. Now, if I get assaulted or worse and am out of work for any amount of time, I first have to use my allotted sick/vacation time then when that dries up, I'm put on Workman's Comp where I'm paid 80% of my salary and am responsible for upkeeping my health, prescription, and dental insurance which is at COBRA rates. So, I ask, does this seem fair to you?

PoliCon
02-04-2011, 10:44 PM
Governor Deal called in the heads of every state department and told them they had to cut at least 7% from there budget. Some, he made cut more.

Just 7? Hell - I'd go in and tell them across the boards - every employee takes a 10% cut in pay and will now be using the state Medicaid program for their insurance provider. THEN - I'd tell each department to come up with a plan to increase efficiency in their departments by 30% or face a 30% cut in their budget.

PoliCon
02-04-2011, 10:49 PM
My life. It's an occupational hazard. But in my state, the governor did away with SLI(State Liability Insurance) which was an insurance where if I got injured on the job, my benefits and regular pay will still be made as though I were working. Now, if I get assaulted or worse and am out of work for any amount of time, I first have to use my allotted sick/vacation time then when that dries up, I'm put on Workman's Comp where I'm paid 80% of my salary and am responsible for upkeeping my health, prescription, and dental insurance which is at COBRA rates. So, I ask, does this seem fair to you?

Do you think you are sacrificing any more than others are? and have you looked into AFAC?

Rockntractor
02-04-2011, 10:57 PM
Do you think you are sacrificing any more than others are? and have you looked into AFAC?

If some of these people would look at stats you can get injured and killed in any job, look at the number of teachers alone in the last few years. It's a rough world and life is dangerous with no guarantees.

PoliCon
02-04-2011, 10:59 PM
If some of these people would look at stats you can get injured and killed in any job, look at the number of teachers alone in the last few years. It's a rough world and life is dangerous with no guarantees.

I understand the risk to injury - which is why I carry insurance and AFLAC.

Rockntractor
02-04-2011, 11:04 PM
http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/vv230/upyourstruly/128931913204293666.jpg

fettpett
02-05-2011, 04:24 AM
I've already taken several pay cuts. None of the legislators have, though. I think it's time for them to make some sacrifices.

from what i understand they are, they voted to give themselves a 5% pay cut and now make like $72k/year.

Personally I feel that all Legislative bodies shouldn't get more than $1 in pay, maybe have a cost of living and be given an apartment/office to work out of and food stamps :D. anything above that they need to pay for out of their own pockets including insurance.