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hoplophobe
02-04-2011, 11:25 PM
Another "we are all going to die, and its our own fault" thread.


Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Fri Feb-04-11 02:24 PM
Original message
For those who don't see overpopulation as a problem...

Edited on Fri Feb-04-11 02:48 PM by Taverner
And believe that its nothing to worry about:

- As population continues to grow in the US, that will mean more will own cars, use fossil fuel products, etc
- That will mean we will need more land to grow food for those new people
- With China and India industrializing, overpopulation in those countries will lead to more fossil fuel use as well
- Cities will become more and more cramped, leading to more crime, more aggression, etc
- Our highways are already overtaxed, and we really can't make them any wider. We will have to start making double and even triple decker highways like Japan. And we see what those look like after an earthquake.
- Projections show the population leveling out around 8-10 billion, however these estimates leave a lot of things out of the equation (exponential growth in developing countries, exponential growth in the US among the hidden underclass, etc) I find their numbers to be a bit skewed.
- Our oceans are being depleted of resources, and dead zones are popping up everywhere. With demand rising (due to more people, of course) we are on a runaway train, leading to disaster food wise


And the solution to the problem?

gratuitous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Fri Feb-04-11 02:50 PM
Response to Original message
13. There are solutions

1. We can solve this ourselves and voluntarily reduce our population. This is probably the cheapest, easiest and most accessible solution, which means that it's totally unworkable. Certain populations around the world are justifiably suspicious anytime another group, tribe, nation or people suggest we need fewer individuals running around on the planet. This has been the prelude to genocide and war and all sorts of misery in the past.

2. We can solve this problem ourselves through involuntary methods, namely, the aforementioned war and genocide. It's not a pretty option, and isn't likely to win too many supporters who aren't ruthless thugs, and why should we prune our population by leaving the worst elements alone?

3. We can let outside forces solve this. Nature can be remarkably efficient in reducing overpopulation, but it may not suit everyone. However, if we don't do anything, by default, we're going to let natural forces reduce our population. Natural forces will be starvation, disease, and other unpretty methods. It will be psychologically devastating for the survivors (and note that there's no guarantees on who that will be) to watch as nature takes its inevitable toll.

So what do we do? The clock is ticking and time is running out on us. Do we have the will to voluntarily reduce our population ourselves? Can we withstand the inevitable clamor from those frightened by the familiar specter of genocide? Can we overcome the bigotry that will surely manifest itself to dictate that these here survive, while those there are marked for extinction? Can we come up with an equitable solution?

The thread is full of stupid but it sort of bottoms out at:

leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Fri Feb-04-11 04:12 PM
Response to Original message
42. If the Ruling Class stopped profiting off energy and food....
:rolleyes:

Novaheart
02-04-2011, 11:53 PM
Well, it would be nice to magically disappear about 2 billion people. I even have them all picked out.

swirling_vortex
02-05-2011, 12:52 AM
Here's the thing though, we do voluntarily reduce our populations already. If you look at the birth rates of the US and Europe, they are far lower compared to the birth rates in 3rd world nations. Therefore, a country that becomes richer will tend to produce fewer children per family (as you don't need and/or can't afford to raise 8 kids). The fertility rate is predicted to go downward in the decades ahead.

But then again, a lot of these modern-day Malthuses tend to assume that unless we throw out our capitalist system, we'll just somehow consume to death. Nevermind the fact that there's human ingenuity and a pricing system built into every market.

Sonnabend
02-05-2011, 04:25 AM
Voluntary reductions? You first, mate.:rolleyes:

Sonnabend
02-05-2011, 04:27 AM
Novaheart, how wonderful... I agree totally. A world without Muslims would be PERFECT.:D

Novaheart
02-05-2011, 10:11 AM
Novaheart, how wonderful... I agree totally. A world without Muslims would be PERFECT.:D

:)

BadCat
02-05-2011, 10:15 AM
Novaheart, how wonderful... I agree totally. A world without Muslims would be PERFECT.:D

Let's add Liberals to that too.

txradioguy
02-05-2011, 10:45 AM
These people obviously still place way too much stock in the book The Population Bomb.

NJCardFan
02-05-2011, 01:21 PM
Not to mention that there is more open space on this planet. There could be 20 billion people and we still wouldn't scratch the surface of this planet. I don't know how true this theory is in this video but...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZVOU5bfHrM

Bailey
02-05-2011, 01:25 PM
Let's add Liberals to that too.

and homo's


Yes he went there

Novaheart
02-05-2011, 01:36 PM
These people obviously still place way too much stock in the book The Population Bomb.

I haven't read The Population Bomb

1965 3.3 billion
1970 3.7 billion
1975 4 billion
1980 4.5 billion
1985 4.85 billion
1990 5.3 billion
1995 5.7 billion
1999 6 billion
2006 6.5 billion
2009 6.8 billion
2012 7 billion

Novaheart
02-05-2011, 01:42 PM
Not to mention that there is more open space on this planet. There could be 20 billion people and we still wouldn't scratch the surface of this planet. I don't know how true this theory is in this video but...

[

That video claims that every family on the planet could have a house with a yard in a place the size of Texas.

The last time I heard that particular example was a few years back and it was Rush Limbaugh talking. Limbaugh is many things I dislike, but he doesn't like to say things which will have been be mocked, so his opinions might suck but his facts TEND to be righteous. He said that everyone in the world could stand shoulder to should in Duval County Florida, or at arms' length in Texas. So I find the house and a yard thing to be suspect.

Moreover, it's irrelevant. What we can do, and what is desirable are two different things. You can watch Cathy Bates shower, but it's not the optimal experience.









Want some eye bleach?

Novaheart
02-05-2011, 01:43 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7WJeqxuOfQ

Articulate_Ape
02-05-2011, 01:47 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MILFzBqJV-8

enslaved1
02-05-2011, 02:11 PM
I haven't read The Population Bomb

1965 3.3 billion
1970 3.7 billion
1975 4 billion
1980 4.5 billion
1985 4.85 billion
1990 5.3 billion
1995 5.7 billion
1999 6 billion
2006 6.5 billion
2009 6.8 billion
2012 7 billion

Notice that in that time period, all the various peaceniks have fought (fighting peacniks?) tooth and nail to prevent any major world encompassing conflicts. Yes, there are always wars going on, but they are minor skirmishes. And yes, various superpowers have also worked hard (but not necessarily well) to prevent another large scale war. Coincidence? Maybe. I'm just saying that war has a tendency to lower the population, not only in terms of people killed, but also in terms of people with other stuff to do besides reproducing, like building war machines, reporting the war, reconstructing after the war, people getting injured in ways that prevent reproduction, ect ect. So all these bleeding heart pacifists could logically have a share of the blame here, couldn't they?

MrsSmith
02-05-2011, 04:49 PM
I haven't read The Population Bomb

1965 3.3 billion
1970 3.7 billion
1975 4 billion
1980 4.5 billion
1985 4.85 billion
1990 5.3 billion
1995 5.7 billion
1999 6 billion
2006 6.5 billion
2009 6.8 billion
2012 7 billion

We were all supposed to have starved to death a couple decades ago. Instead, we're fighting an obesity epidemic.

Texas is 268,820 square miles. There are 27,878,400 square feet in a square mile...so 7,495,107,840,000 square feet in Texas. So there would be over 1000 square feet for every person on the planet.

PoliCon
02-05-2011, 06:18 PM
Voluntary reductions? You first, mate.:rolleyes:

EXACTLY! The left are never willing to live what they claim to believe.

Apache
02-05-2011, 06:39 PM
EXACTLY! The left are never willing to live what they claim to believe.

Because they want it done for them...lazy bastids :rolleyes:

Novaheart
02-05-2011, 08:13 PM
We were all supposed to have starved to death a couple decades ago. Instead, we're fighting an obesity epidemic.

Texas is 268,820 square miles. There are 27,878,400 square feet in a square mile...so 7,495,107,840,000 square feet in Texas. So there would be over 1000 square feet for every person on the planet.

So for every family to have a house with a yard, assuming a standard lot, you would need 10 people per family.

All of which means nothing. How many people can fit on the land, and how many it can support are not the same thing.

According to this (http://dieoff.org/page40.htm) you need 1.2 acres of farmland per person. Then there is water, sewer, garbage, and power to provide for.

MrsSmith
02-05-2011, 08:25 PM
So for every family to have a house with a yard, assuming a standard lot, you would need 10 people per family.

All of which means nothing. How many people can fit on the land, and how many it can support are not the same thing.

According to this (http://dieoff.org/page40.htm) you need 1.2 acres of farmland per person. Then there is water, sewer, garbage, and power to provide for.

The point was that every single person in the world today COULD fit inside the Texas boundaries with over 1000 square feet for each one...supporting them on that land wasn't part of the question. :rolleyes: No one ever said Texas could support the whole world. However, given that we can all FIT in the state, the rest of the world is probably room enough for us all. :rolleyes: But hey, good try on moving the goalposts anyway.

noonwitch
02-07-2011, 10:56 AM
I'm not a zero population growth advocate. I think people should wait to have kids until they can afford to raise them properly, without government aid, but that's a different issue.

Adam Wood
02-07-2011, 02:18 PM
DU should voluntarily depopulate themselves from the planet.

Rockntractor
02-07-2011, 02:27 PM
DU should voluntarily depopulate themselves from the planet.
We have all these old Space Shuttles ready to be put on moth balls and sent to space museums, I say we pack them all full of liberals and launch them toward mars!

Adam Wood
02-07-2011, 03:31 PM
We have all these old Space Shuttles ready to be put on moth balls and sent to space museums, I say we pack them all full of liberals and launch them toward mars!Why spend all that money? Just let them kill themselves and we can have one big funeral pyre. In a symbolic gesture, we'll burn them to release all of their carbon dioxide back to Gaea from whence it came.

AmPat
02-07-2011, 04:07 PM
We have all these old Space Shuttles ready to be put on moth balls and sent to space museums, I say we pack them all full of liberals and launch them toward mars!

Mars? Naw. The sun.

PoliCon
02-07-2011, 11:03 PM
I'm not a zero population growth advocate. I think people should wait to have kids until they can afford to raise them properly, without government aid, but that's a different issue.

a very conservative POV you have there.

PoliCon
02-07-2011, 11:04 PM
DU should voluntarily depopulate themselves from the planet.

QFT