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View Full Version : Oil rises jump almost $7, (Fear not Americans, ANWR is still off-limits)



megimoo
06-06-2008, 01:22 PM
Oil rises jump almost $7, closing in on record (Fear not Americans, ANWR is still off-limits)

Many investors tend to buy (oil) commodities as a hedge against inflation when the dollar is falling.

Also, a weaker dollar makes oil less expensive to investors dealing in other currencies. Analysts believe the dollarís protracted decline has been a major reason why oil prices have nearly doubled in the past year.

The euro strengthened further against the greenback Friday. A Labor Department report showing the U.S. unemployment rate jumped half a percentage point to 5.5 percent last month ó its biggest monthly increase since 1986 ó could drag the greenback even lower in the days ahead.


NEW YORK - Oil prices shot up nearly $7 a barrel Friday, extending big gains from the previous day and racing toward an all-time high after a Morgan Stanley analyst predicted prices could hit $150 by the Fourth of July.
A further weakening of the dollar helped keep prices high by enticing overseas buyers armed with stronger currencies and other investors looking for a hedge against the greenback. Light, sweet crude for July delivery jumped as much as $6.96 to

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12400801/$134.75 on the New York Mercantile Exchange, before easing slightly to trade at $134.40, up $6.61.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12400801/

LogansPapa
06-06-2008, 01:39 PM
IT"S NOT WORLD DEMAND FOR THE COMODITY! IT"S NOT -IT"S NOT-IT"S NOT! I WONíT LET IT!. IF IT CAUSES ME PAIN - AS AN AMERICAN - ITíS WRONG AND IíM GOING TO GET VERY ANGRY AT YOU LITTLE PEOPLE IN ALL THOSE OVER-POPULATED COUNTRIES!!!

:mad:

megimoo
06-06-2008, 03:03 PM
IT"S NOT WORLD DEMAND FOR THE COMODITY! IT"S NOT -IT"S NOT-IT"S NOT! I WONíT LET IT!. IF IT CAUSES ME PAIN - AS AN AMERICAN - ITíS WRONG AND IíM GOING TO GET VERY ANGRY AT YOU LITTLE PEOPLE IN ALL THOSE OVER-POPULATED COUNTRIES!!!

:mad:Are you feeling well old man ??

linda22003
06-06-2008, 03:31 PM
It's a wild day today, with oil prices up to $138.75/barrel, and the Dow down about 350 the last time I looked, with half an hour to go.

Vepr
06-06-2008, 03:54 PM
Personally I think we should sit on our oil reserves as painful as it is. Oil is a finite commodity and we should make the most out of other people's oil before we start dipping into what we have left whether it is ANWR or shale oil etc. I do not think a lot of people realize just how much oil is ingrained in our daily lives. It is part of everything we do. If we do not have a viable alternative when it is gone we are in for a world of hurt and rapid decline back to a pre-industrial society but at populations far exceeding what they had then. The mass starvation will be ugly to say the least.

Aklover
06-06-2008, 04:14 PM
Personally I think we should sit on our oil reserves as painful as it is. Oil is a finite commodity and we should make the most out of other people's oil before we start dipping into what we have left whether it is ANWR or shale oil etc. I do not think a lot of people realize just how much oil is ingrained in our daily lives. It is part of everything we do. If we do not have a viable alternative when it is gone we are in for a world of hurt and rapid decline back to a pre-industrial society but at populations far exceeding what they had then. The mass starvation will be ugly to say the least.



Oil is far from finite, most first world countries either inhibit accessing it or use their own to thier benefit by manipulating supply.

LogansPapa
06-06-2008, 04:19 PM
Are you feeling well old man ??

HeY!! I'm not........um......oh - wait. I am old. Nevermind. :o

LogansPapa
06-06-2008, 04:21 PM
Personally I think we should sit on our oil reserves as painful as it is. Oil is a finite commodity and we should make the most out of other people's oil before we start dipping into what we have left whether it is ANWR or shale oil etc. I do not think a lot of people realize just how much oil is ingrained in our daily lives. It is part of everything we do.

Bingo! Excellent perspective, and real too.:)

Vepr
06-06-2008, 04:25 PM
Oil is far from finite, most first world countries either inhibit accessing it or use their own to thier benefit by manipulating supply.

There is not an endless supply of oil in the world so it is a finite resource unlike the sunlight. It is hard to tell when we will run out of easy to access crude oil that we can pump out of the ground but it will happen. We might still be able to access tar sands and shale oil but even with those the supply is not endless. At some point oil will run out we just do not know when. We had better have a decent alternative at that point though or the resounding crash of civilization will be deafening.

LogansPapa
06-06-2008, 04:27 PM
This kid's sharp.:cool:

Constitutionally Speaking
06-06-2008, 04:27 PM
Personally I think we should sit on our oil reserves as painful as it is. Oil is a finite commodity and we should make the most out of other people's oil before we start dipping into what we have left whether it is ANWR or shale oil etc. I do not think a lot of people realize just how much oil is ingrained in our daily lives. It is part of everything we do. If we do not have a viable alternative when it is gone we are in for a world of hurt and rapid decline back to a pre-industrial society but at populations far exceeding what they had then. The mass starvation will be ugly to say the least.


We've got enough for over 150 years - right here within our borders. There is no need to sit on it.

LogansPapa
06-06-2008, 04:30 PM
We've got enough for over 150 years - right here within our borders. There is no need to sit on it.

We've got a 1,000 years of energy, via crude and coal - but that will require altering the landscape just a bit.:p

Vepr
06-06-2008, 04:33 PM
We've got enough for over 150 years - right here within our borders. There is no need to sit on it.

I disagree. First if we are counting shale oil it is still up in the air how easy it will be to access all of it. Also we keep thinking of terms of the here and now in terms of consumption. What we use now will not be what we will be using in 10 or 20 years. Our need for oil is only going to keep rising and it is hard to tell what those needs are going to be in 20 years. World wide we keep out pacing the predictions on what we will be consuming. In 50 we could be looking at a much smaller supply just due to rampant growth. I would rather be safe than sorry and use up the rest of the worlds oil and then resort to our own when everyone else is tapped out.

Vepr
06-06-2008, 04:38 PM
We are lucky to be swimming in coal. What Saudi Arabia is to oil we are to coal and it can be turned into syn oil. That being said turning coal into oil is not ideal, dirty, and we still need to watch our resource consumption including coal.

megimoo
06-06-2008, 05:28 PM
Bingo! Excellent perspective, and real too.:)

Who are we saving it for China ?They will drill every drop,world wide,they can get their hands on. Right now they are drilling off the coast of Cuba into our coastal oil reserves that we are not allowed to drill Which proves that if we don't drill it someone else will .

World estimates of available oil is about thirty five million barrels a day short term and that tops whatevery we could use in over a fifty years and more is being discovered. The oil now being discovered is more difficult to extract but the extration technology will improve .

We need to accelerate research into alternate real energy sources.Nuclear power is the only feasible source of cheap and clean electric power followed by solar/liquid metal heat exchangers in southwestern US deserts.

Solar electric panels are far too expensive and are only usefull as battery charges on some low power applications .Solar electric panels are in reality the worlds most expensive battery changers and I have used them on many remote,low power,engineering projects !

The US produces about 5 million barrels of crude a day, and imports about 12 million... Some day we will be using super cooled liquid Hydrogen to putter around in our anti-gravity pods but that will be after we are all long gone. !

LogansPapa
06-06-2008, 05:36 PM
Dow -3.13% Nasdaq -2.96%

megimoo
06-06-2008, 05:59 PM
Dow -3.13% Nasdaq -2.96%Someone sneezed in the whitehouse !

Vepr
06-06-2008, 07:05 PM
Who are we saving it for China ?They will drill every drop,world wide,they can get their hands on. Right now they are drilling off the coast of Cuba into our coastal oil reserves that we are not allowed to drill Which proves that if we don't drill it someone else will .

World estimates of available oil is about thirty five million barrels a day short term and that tops whatevery we could use in over a fifty years and more is being discovered. The oil now being discovered is more difficult to extract but the extration technology will improve .

We need to accelerate research into alternate real energy sources.Nuclear power is the only feasible source of cheap and clean electric power followed by solar/liquid metal heat exchangers in southwestern US deserts.

Solar electric panels are far too expensive and are only usefull as battery charges on some low power applications .Solar electric panels are in reality the worlds most expensive battery changers and I have used them on many remote,low power,engineering projects !

The US produces about 5 million barrels of crude a day, and imports about 12 million... Some day we will be using super cooled liquid Hydrogen to putter around in our anti-gravity pods but that will be after we are all long gone. !

If it comes to using resources that anyone can exploit then by all means go after them. If it is resources only we can access then sit on them until we have no choice. Then we can tell the rest of the world to sit and spin.

Constitutionally Speaking
06-06-2008, 08:12 PM
I disagree. First if we are counting shale oil it is still up in the air how easy it will be to access all of it. Also we keep thinking of terms of the here and now in terms of consumption. What we use now will not be what we will be using in 10 or 20 years. Our need for oil is only going to keep rising and it is hard to tell what those needs are going to be in 20 years. World wide we keep out pacing the predictions on what we will be consuming. In 50 we could be looking at a much smaller supply just due to rampant growth. I would rather be safe than sorry and use up the rest of the worlds oil and then resort to our own when everyone else is tapped out.


The problem has been solved.


The reason you probably haven't heard about the Green River Formation is that most of the methods tried for turning oil shale into oil have been deeply flawed - economically, environmentally or usually both. Because there have been so many false starts, oil shale tends to get lumped with cold fusion, zero-point energy, and other "miracle" fuels perpetually just over the horizon.

"A lot of other companies have bent their spears trying to do what we're now doing," Vinegar says of his 28-year quest to turn oil shale into a commercial energy source. "We're talking about the Holy Grail."

Unlike the Grail, though, Shell is convinced that oil shale is no myth and that after years of secret research, it is close to achieving this oil-based alchemy. Shell is not alone in this assessment. "Harold has broken the code," says oil shale expert Anton Dammer, director of the U.S. Department of Energy's Office of Naval Petroleum and Oil Shale Reserves.

Vinegar has developed a cutting-edge technology that, according to Shell, will produce large quantities of high-quality oil without ravaging the local environment - and be profitable with prices around $30 a barrel. Now that oil is approaching $90, the odds on Shell's speculative bet are beginning to look awfully good.

Shell declines to get too specific about how much oil it thinks it can pump at peak production levels, but one DOE study contends that the region can sustain two million barrels a day by 2020 and three million by 2040. Other government estimates have posited an upper range of five million. At that level, Western oil shale would rival the largest oilfields in the world.




http://money.cnn.com/2007/10/30/magazines/fortune/Oil_from_stone.fortune/index.htm

Vepr
06-07-2008, 01:15 AM
The problem has been solved.






http://money.cnn.com/2007/10/30/magazines/fortune/Oil_from_stone.fortune/index.htm

If that is the solution where they pump super heated CO2 into the ground to boil the oil out it very well could work but to my knowledge that has only been tested on a small scale. I don't think they have any guarentees that it will be able to produce the type of oil they are talking about. Even if it is able to we would be smart to develop the technology but keep using up everyone elses reserves first.

megimoo
06-07-2008, 01:41 AM
If that is the solution where they pump super heated CO2 into the ground to boil the oil out it very well could work but to my knowledge that has only been tested on a small scale. I don't think they have any guarentees that it will be able to produce the type of oil they are talking about. Even if it is able to we would be smart to develop the technology but keep using up everyone elses reserves first.What's wrong with just pumping supeheated steam into the oil shale and pumping the oil from underground pools that form as a result ?

Vepr
06-07-2008, 11:58 AM
What's wrong with just pumping supeheated steam into the oil shale and pumping the oil from underground pools that form as a result ?

There is probably more than one solution to the heating. I would think it would be cleaner to use a gas like carbon dioxide instead of introducing water vapor but I am no expert so who knows. Anyways we do need some large scale tests to see if the projections are correct.

hampshirebrit
06-07-2008, 12:38 PM
What's wrong with just pumping supeheated steam into the oil shale and pumping the oil from underground pools that form as a result ?

Superheating steam requires very large inputs of natural gas and water. Water resources tend to be scarce in much of the shale oil deposit areas. Natural gas ... that's obvious. You want to use as little energy as possible to extract energy resources ... Energy return on energy invested...EROEI.

If you have to invest near to or more than a barrel in terms of inputs to get a barrel out, then there is no point in starting operations in the first place.

Below 100pc EROEI, the only thing that can affect this is the $/bbl price, and an expectation that that price will hold or increase, and not be tampered with by government regulation or taxation.

LogansPapa
06-07-2008, 12:46 PM
Energy return on energy invested...EROEI.

Invasion and war is much more economical, and fun. Makes many high-paying jobs here in the States. We need to go take out that little stump in South America and over-throw the government, such as it is, in Mexico.