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Gingersnap
02-11-2011, 11:10 AM
Multiculturalism has failed, says French president


PARIS (AFP) French President Nicolas Sarkozy declared Thursday that multiculturalism had failed, joining a growing number of world leaders or ex-leaders who have condemned it. "My answer is clearly yes, it is a failure," he said in a television interview when asked about the policy which advocates that host societies welcome and foster distinct cultural and religious immigrant groups. "Of course we must all respect differences, but we do not want... a society where communities coexist side by side.

"If you come to France, you accept to melt into a single community, which is the national community, and if you do not want to accept that, you cannot be welcome in France," the right-wing president said.

"The French national community cannot accept a change in its lifestyle, equality between men and women... freedom for little girls to go to school," he said. "We have been too concerned about the identity of the person who was arriving and not enough about the identity of the country that was receiving him," Sarkozy said in the TFI channel show.

British Prime Minister David Cameron, German Chancellor Angela Merkel, Australia's ex-prime minister John Howard and Spanish ex-premier Jose Maria Aznar have also recently said multicultural policies have not successfully integrated immigrants.

Merkel in October said efforts towards multiculturalism in Germany had "failed, totally."

The comment followed weeks of anguished debate sparked by the huge popularity of a book by a central banker saying that immigrants, in particular Muslims, were making Germany "more stupid."

Britain's Cameron last week pronounced his country's long-standing policy of multiculturalism a failure, calling for better integration of young Muslims to combat home-grown extremism. He urged a "more active, muscular liberalism" where equal rights, the rule of law, freedom of speech and democracy are actively promoted to create a stronger national identity.

The prime minister, who took power in May 2010, argued that "under the doctrine of state multiculturalism, we have encouraged different cultures to live separate lives, apart from each other and the mainstream". He said this had resulted in a lack of national identity in Britain which had made some young Muslims turn to extremist ideology.

Sarkozy said in his television interview Thursday that "our Muslim compatriots must be able to practise their religion, as any citizen can," but he noted "we in France do not want people to pray in an ostentatious way in the street."

French far-right leader Marine Le Pen late last year came under fire for comparing Muslims praying in the streets outside overcrowded mosques in France to the Nazi occupation.

So, Hell has frozen over twice this week.

Yahoo (http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20110210/wl_afp/francepoliticsimmigrationsociety_20110210231042)

Wei Wu Wei
02-11-2011, 11:40 AM
Yep.

This has been happening in many European nations.

It's crucial here to make the distinction between Postmodern Liberal Multiculturalism and Economically-Oriented Leftism.

There has been many people on the left saying that postmodern multiculturalism on it's own is doomed to failure, and I agree.

Often times these two sides are collapsed into one homogenous figure called "liberals", but in reality there is a significant difference between the two.

If Postmodern multiculturalism becomes and end-in-itself and the horizon for the liberal struggle, then we have passed that peak and we're in pretty big trouble.

As postmodern multiculturalism shows it's emptiness, it's up for leftists, socialists, and communists to assert that liberalism today must be rooted in critiquing the social and power structures in place which result in our problems, rather than silly "let's all get along" bandaids to our symptoms.

Novaheart
02-11-2011, 12:00 PM
True, there is a difference between what we were told multiculturalism meant and what has been done in the name of multiculturalism.

I found it interesting on DU that the rank and file not only maintained that the US had no right to be a European culture, but that European nations did not have the right to maintain their cultural and ethnic integrity either.

Lanie
02-11-2011, 12:12 PM
So, Hell has frozen over twice this week.

Yahoo (http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20110210/wl_afp/francepoliticsimmigrationsociety_20110210231042)

It doesn't surprise me. The French feel that anything with a different color is some sort of threat to them.

I say we show our full support of France by deporting all the French people who are here back over there and all other countries do the same. Then let's see if they still hate multiculturism so much once they're paying for those citizens again.

Novaheart
02-11-2011, 12:15 PM
It doesn't surprise me. The French feel that anything with a different color is some sort of threat to them.

I say we show our full support of France by deporting all the French people who are here back over there and all other countries do the same. Then let's see if they still hate multiculturism so much once they're paying for those citizens again.

France has a huge problem with illegal immigrants. Do you think there are a lot of illegal French immigrants in the US at any given time?

Gingersnap
02-11-2011, 12:49 PM
It doesn't surprise me. The French feel that anything with a different color is some sort of threat to them.

I say we show our full support of France by deporting all the French people who are here back over there and all other countries do the same. Then let's see if they still hate multiculturism so much once they're paying for those citizens again.

I think you'll find that the French are pretty unconcerned about skin color and hair texture but they are wildly passionate about their version of democracy, French language, French culture, and the way they handle the separation between church and state.

Many of their Muslim immigrants (and the children of those people) do not share any French cultural values. The Frence are mightily concerned about the abuse of women and girls, forced marriage, honor killings, Islamic radicalization, Muslim gangs, the Muslim rape culture involving indigenous French women, and many other alarming activities that are un-French.

linda22003
02-11-2011, 12:51 PM
France is also the home of Fashion, and the burqa is the ultimate Fashion no-no.

Lanie
02-11-2011, 02:49 PM
France has a huge problem with illegal immigrants. Do you think there are a lot of illegal French immigrants in the US at any given time?

France also has a problem with legal immigrants and people born in the country who they feel aren't "French" enough. I don't have sympathy.

Lanie
02-11-2011, 02:51 PM
I think you'll find that the French are pretty unconcerned about skin color and hair texture but they are wildly passionate about their version of democracy, French language, French culture, and the way they handle the separation between church and state.

Many of their Muslim immigrants (and the children of those people) do not share any French cultural values. The Frence are mightily concerned about the abuse of women and girls, forced marriage, honor killings, Islamic radicalization, Muslim gangs, the Muslim rape culture involving indigenous French women, and many other alarming activities that are un-French.

Gingersnap, even without the drama you mentioned, they flat out have a problem with Muslims for being Muslim. They also have a problem with the Jews in the area. They have a problem with anybody who doesn't have French as their only language and anybody who isn't as hateful as they are about it from what I can tell. What? Do you think by taking away freedom of religion regarding veils that you're going to prevent honor killing? The French totally need to get a clue.

on edit: For the record, any Muslim born in the country of France is French. People can stamp and jump up and down all they want to. They're French.

Lanie
02-11-2011, 02:52 PM
France is also the home of Fashion, and the burqa is the ultimate Fashion no-no.

Yeah, can't have freedom of religion. It's not french. Well, you can have freedom of religion so long as that religion is Christian or agnostic. The others need to go. It's not French.

txradioguy
02-11-2011, 03:00 PM
Yeah, can't have freedom of religion. It's not french. Well, you can have freedom of religion so long as that religion is Christian or agnostic. The others need to go. It's not French.

:rolleyes:

And yet Christian women and non Muslim women who visit Islamic Republics are required to wear headscarves and adhere to certain standards of dress so as to comply with Islamic Law. To include members of our armed forces.


But I guess with you as long as you get a chance to bash Christianity hypocrisy and double standard can be ignored.

:rolleyes:

Gingersnap
02-11-2011, 03:04 PM
Gingersnap, even without the drama you mentioned, they flat out have a problem with Muslims for being Muslim. They also have a problem with the Jews in the area. They have a problem with anybody who doesn't have French as their only language and anybody who isn't as hateful as they are about it from what I can tell. What? Do you think by taking away freedom of religion regarding veils that you're going to prevent honor killing? The French totally need to get a clue.

on edit: For the record, any Muslim born in the country of France is French. People can stamp and jump up and down all they want to. They're French.

They are, indeed, French. That's a legal designation. That doesn't mean that they embrace French values which is what the heart of the matter is today. The French were no friend to the Jews in WWII but after that, many Jews lived in France with little trouble. It was the Muslim "youth" who once again began beating Jews in the streets and desecrating Jewish graveyards.

Veiling is completely against French notions of equality and democracy. French feminism rebels completely against the very basis for veiling and the French do love their feminists. The French (according to their own views) speak the most logical and most mellifluous language in the world. They have no interest in supporting non-French language efforts. They have an entire government bureau devoted to keeping the French language uncontaminated and socially elevated.

You may not like or agree with any of those values but the French are free to be French. What they want is for the Muslim immigrants and their descendants to also be French in a cultural sense.

linda22003
02-11-2011, 03:30 PM
Yeah, can't have freedom of religion. It's not french. Well, you can have freedom of religion so long as that religion is Christian or agnostic. The others need to go. It's not French.

You're certainly an expert on the French. How much time have you spent there?