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View Full Version : Should public employee unions in Wisconsin call a General Strike?



Carol
02-16-2011, 06:39 PM
link (http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x431574)


coalition_unwilling (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Wed Feb-16-11 05:24 PM
Original message


Edited on Wed Feb-16-11 05:26 PM by coalition_unwilling
Since Wisconsin Governor Walker has thrown down the gauntlet and threatened to call out the state National Guard to suppress any strikes by public employee unions, the discussion should now shift to the advisability of a general strike by all Wisconsin public employees covered by collective bargaining agreements, in my opinion.

What are the arguments for and against a general strike by public sector employees? And what is your opinion about whether a general strike should be on the table at this point?

Edited for typo

Yes, I hope they do.

Union membership in WI in 2009 was 15.2%. The other 85 % of the people are not going to take kindly to unions demanding more when unemployment is up, social services are being cut and there is a huge budget shortfall. People are already hurting, unions striking and making life more difficult will not endear them to unions or Democrats who are protesting EVERY possible way to cut the budget except raising taxes.

http://www.bls.gov/ro5/unionwi.pdf


Vincardog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Wed Feb-16-11 05:39 PM
Response to Original message
3. Tell Walker to stop the shit or STRIKE TOMORROW. Start with the National guard

Vincardog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Wed Feb-16-11 05:55 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Evey member of the military has the moral and legal responsibility to refuse illegal orders.

That includes firing of peaceful demonstrators and or strikers

djones520
02-16-2011, 06:42 PM
The alternative to these cuts are 12,000 lay offs. God these people are retarded. :rolleyes:

I brought this up to a friend of mine who was complaining about it on Facebook. She never responded.

NJCardFan
02-16-2011, 10:43 PM
If they are civil service, they cannot strike.

fettpett
02-17-2011, 08:08 AM
The alternative to these cuts are 12,000 lay offs. God these people are retarded. :rolleyes:

I brought this up to a friend of mine who was complaining about it on Facebook. She never responded.

it's 6,000 but still a valid point, I posted a bunch of link in the GD forum and my $.02 on it

fettpett
02-17-2011, 08:11 AM
also it's a load of shit, Walker hasn't said anything about using the NG on strikers, he has suggested using them in the Prisons if they go on strike. Bunch of fucking liars is what they are

PoliCon
02-17-2011, 08:27 AM
And then the people of wisconsin should come back and outlaw these unions and fire anyone who gives them shit.

Calypso Jones
02-17-2011, 08:39 AM
yes. And then the Governor should do a lot of job abolishing and hire new employees to replace ALL of these.

fettpett
02-17-2011, 08:47 AM
there are a lot of Conservatives that work for the State and many are applauding the move as they are tired of paying for a union they hate. it's tough love, but the Union's have given no alternatives. fire every teacher that hasn't shown a valid reason for being off yesterday across the state.

I have a lot of friends and acquaintances from HS that support the Union's stupid positions, I've had a debate with one on this...his position didn't make any sense

noonwitch
02-17-2011, 08:58 AM
If they are civil service, they cannot strike.


That's how it works here, too. If we go on strike, the state can replace us with recent college grads for half the price, so it's kind of stupid to go on strike.

hoplophobe
02-17-2011, 10:23 AM
there are a lot of Conservatives that work for the State and many are applauding the move as they are tired of paying for a union they hate. it's tough love, but the Union's have given no alternatives. fire every teacher that hasn't shown a valid reason for being off yesterday across the state.

I have a lot of friends and acquaintances from HS that support the Union's stupid positions, I've had a debate with one on this...his position didn't make any sense
If that is too harsh, give them the chance to make that day up. July 6th would be a good day to do that. :D

fettpett
02-17-2011, 10:43 AM
If that is too harsh, give them the chance to make that day up. July 6th would be a good day to do that. :D

nah, it's not too harsh, some these asshole teachers took their students to Madison without parent's approval.

hoplophobe
02-17-2011, 11:03 AM
nah, it's not too harsh, some these asshole teachers took their students to Madison without parent's approval.
How did they get there? School district buses? Who authorized it if they did?

fettpett
02-17-2011, 11:05 AM
How did they get there? School district buses? Who authorized it if they did?

don't know...none of the stories that I read said anything about how they got there.

hoplophobe
02-17-2011, 11:09 AM
don't know...none of the stories that I read said anything about how they got there.
That would be a interesting story for someone to ferret out.

fettpett
02-17-2011, 11:09 AM
That would be a interesting story for someone to ferret out.

yep

fettpett
02-17-2011, 11:15 AM
I just posted this to Vickie McKenna's fb page, shes about the only Conservative in Madison's media, They do have Rush on but she's the only local one. At lest Milwaukee has 2 big Conservative Radio Stations. Madison's just a liberal cesspool

Wei Wu Wei
02-17-2011, 11:18 AM
How did they get there? School district buses? Who authorized it if they did?

They walked out of class and simply marched the 3 miles down to the rally

http://vimeo.com/20004065
(video)

Wei Wu Wei
02-17-2011, 11:21 AM
These are pretty big protests:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edt3rjqghg4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCsG4g0dzJo

fettpett
02-17-2011, 11:22 AM
They walked out of class and simply marched the 3 miles down to the rally

http://vimeo.com/20004065
(video)

not all of them

Wei Wu Wei
02-17-2011, 11:24 AM
http://host.madison.com/ct/news/opinion/editorial/article_61064e9a-27b0-5f28-b6d1-a57c8b2aaaf6.html

Walker is saying these education cuts are needed to balance the budget but his own kick-back expenditures to his special interest groups alone cost more than the size of the deficit which is being used to justify these teacher cuts.




To the extent that there is an imbalance -- Walker claims there is a $137 million deficit -- it is not because of a drop in revenues or increases in the cost of state employee contracts, benefits or pensions. It is because Walker and his allies pushed through $140 million in new spending for special-interest groups in January. If the Legislature were simply to rescind Walker’s new spending schemes -- or delay their implementation until they are offset by fresh revenues -- the “crisis” would not exist.

Wei Wu Wei
02-17-2011, 11:26 AM
The alternative to these cuts are 12,000 lay offs. God these people are retarded. :rolleyes:

I brought this up to a friend of mine who was complaining about it on Facebook. She never responded.

Or simply rescinding or postponing the $140 million spending instated by Walker.

If they just wait a little while on his out-of-control-spending they could easily afford the cuts and the layoffs.

fettpett
02-17-2011, 11:33 AM
Or simply rescinding or postponing the $140 million spending instated by Walker.

If they just wait a little while on his out-of-control-spending they could easily afford the cuts and the layoffs.

http://www.jsonline.com/news/statepolitics/98116689.html

yeah sure dude


State budget deficit swells to $2.5 billion
Figure underscores massive challenge facing lawmakers and next governor
e-mail print By Jason Stein of the Journal Sentinel
July 9, 2010 |(143) COMMENTS

Madison The state's yawning budget hole has swelled to $2.5 billion, underscoring the massive challenge that awaits the next governor and Legislature, a new report released Friday shows.

The projections by the Legislature's nonpartisan budget office show the expected shortfall for the 2011-'13 budget has grown by $462 million from the just over $2 billion that was expected a year ago.

It is one of the biggest projected shortfalls of the past decade, nearly as large as the $2.9 billion deficit that Gov. Jim Doyle faced in his first budget in 2003.

The state has survived other harsh budgets in recent years by relying on billions of dollars in one-time money from the federal government or pots of state cash including the transportation fund, but this time those relatively easy solutions will be tougher to find, said Mark Bugher, former secretary of the state Department of Administration.

"(The next governor) and Legislature are going to have significant challenges because the day of reckoning has arrived," Bugher said. "They are going to have to face up to the notion of cutting spending pretty dramatically or raising fees and taxes or a little bit of both."

The Legislative Fiscal Bureau report showed the potential deficit increased because taxes and fees aren't growing as quickly as expected and because lawmakers approved some modest additional spending and tax cuts at the end of the legislative session in the spring.

fettpett
02-17-2011, 11:44 AM
btw the Unions are reimbursing Teachers that go to this protest for food, gas and they are getting sick days paid, what a load of crap

fettpett
02-17-2011, 12:54 PM
So Wei Wei what do you say to public employees being out signing up people for their political party while they are suppose to be working

http://www.youtube.com/user/MacIverInstitute#p/u/0/E1LeqQbf4Rs

Wei Wu Wei
02-17-2011, 01:34 PM
So Wei Wei what do you say to public employees being out signing up people for their political party while they are suppose to be working

http://www.youtube.com/user/MacIverInstitute#p/u/0/E1LeqQbf4Rs

labor protests against major anti-labor legislation?

socialists fighting for the rights of workers?

this all seems expected

fettpett
02-17-2011, 01:39 PM
labor protests against major anti-labor legislation?

socialists fighting for the rights of workers?

this all seems expected

that wasn't my question idiot, my question was whether they should be doing it on the GOVERNMENTS DIME, the first woman said she was a public employee yet she is out there signing up people for the Socialist party during working hours during the protest.

so, should a PUBLIC EMPLOYEE be out signing up people for a political party WHILE she is suppose to be WORKING, at her JOB?!?!

Wei Wu Wei
02-17-2011, 01:43 PM
you do understand what a strike is don't you?

Wei Wu Wei
02-17-2011, 01:46 PM
If you are going to strip away the collective bargaining power of workers, they will collectivize and bargain in ways that do not seem legitimate (because legitimacy is defined by those stripping the rights)

fettpett
02-17-2011, 01:48 PM
you do understand what a strike is don't you?

They are bared from striking by state law. they are going to the protesting illegally on top of it. They are not allowed to do "sick strikes" which is what they are attempting to do by calling in sick to go protest.

fettpett
02-17-2011, 01:49 PM
If you are going to strip away the collective bargaining power of workers, they will collectivize and bargain in ways that do not seem legitimate (because legitimacy is defined by those stripping the rights)

they were given the privilege to Collectively bargain by the State in 1959, it's not a right, the state can take away that privilege at any time it wants.

Wei Wu Wei
02-17-2011, 01:51 PM
they were given the privilege to Collectively bargain by the State in 1959, it's not a right, the state can take away that privilege at any time it wants.

the state can certainly try, it's up to the workers whether or not they will succeed

fettpett
02-17-2011, 01:51 PM
they can certainly try, it's up to the workers whether or not they will succeed

no, it's up to the Voters and those that the voters have put in office to decide that.

Wei Wu Wei
02-17-2011, 01:54 PM
All of this anti-union talk that's been flooding the corporate airwaves is pure class warfare.

The contrast between public employee pay/benefits doesn't necessary mean that the public workers are getting too much, it might be that the private workers aren't getting enough. However, because of the near-total lack of worker power and high unemployment, private workers have little recourse other than getting frustrated, not knowing who to blame, and taking out their anger on the organized public workers who have the Harry Baals to actually do something about their situation.

Wei Wu Wei
02-17-2011, 01:56 PM
no, it's up to the Voters and those that the voters have put in office to decide that.

the gears of society can only function with the participation of the work force, the work force that gets so much shit from the corporate media.

yes politicians can get elected and legislators can write laws but the workers can bring the whole damn thing to a screeching halt.

there are many different forms of power, and the collective power of organized labor is something that Big Capital fears FAR more than the rigged and propagandized electoral process

fettpett
02-17-2011, 02:10 PM
this isn't the majority of the work force though. This is one small sector, the public sector that is SUPPORTED FINANCIALLY by the private sector through taxes. The majority of voters (ie the WORK FORCE) supports this bill and the Public sector Unions are losing all good will that they had.

Wei Wu Wei
02-17-2011, 02:21 PM
For something that is so universally supported there sure are a lot of people out protesting it right now

fettpett
02-17-2011, 02:25 PM
For something that is so universally supported there sure are a lot of people out protesting it right now

I didn't say it was universally reported, I said the MAJORITY supported it, something around 60% support it

Wei Wu Wei
02-17-2011, 02:35 PM
It wouldn't surprise me one bit. I can't find a poll for it though

fettpett
02-17-2011, 02:36 PM
It wouldn't surprise me one bit. I can't find a poll for it though

http://www.jsonline.com/polls/116392154.html?results=y&mr=1&oid=1&pid=116392154&cid=8500544

Wei Wu Wei
02-17-2011, 02:38 PM
um that's a non-scientific online poll it's about a credible as a poll conducted here on CU

fettpett
02-17-2011, 02:39 PM
um that's a non-scientific online poll it's about a credible as a poll conducted here on CU

:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Wei Wu Wei
02-17-2011, 02:40 PM
I'm serious you can just go to the website and vote, it's a collection of votes from people who visisted that website.

It's like Bill O' Reilly's online polls every night where you vote whether someone or something was patriotic or pinheaded

fettpett
02-17-2011, 02:42 PM
I'm serious you can just go to the website and vote, it's a collection of votes from people who visisted that website.

It's like Bill O' Reilly's online polls every night where you vote whether someone or something was patriotic or pinheaded

yeah, there hasn't been any polls done other than websites.

Apache
02-17-2011, 02:46 PM
One satisfying thought, in a post-apocalyptic world Wheezer would be fucked...:D