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bijou
08-29-2008, 10:42 AM
FOX News Confirms Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin Will Be McCain Running Mate

http://i34.tinypic.com/5aosg2.jpg

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,411681,00.html

No further details yet

Kimberly
08-29-2008, 10:55 AM
Great choice!

Goldwater
08-29-2008, 11:02 AM
It's good they took my (old) advice. :cool: They can win this now.

The only line of attack they can use is that she was only picked because she was a woman, a move that can only harm the rift with Hillary supporters. It is quite clever, because she is also hugely popular in Alaska.

DarkScribe
08-29-2008, 11:03 AM
Smart choice. Like most of us, I heard the name being mentioned a few times on Hannity but not as much lately as Romney or (thankfully, not), Liebermann. I've been glued to Fox News this morning, and from what I've been able to learn about Palin, I think I like this pick. I just saw some clips of her on Fox visiting the troops in Iraq, hefting an M-16...and she's apparently a lifelong NRA member, too. Cool beans...

bijou
08-29-2008, 11:05 AM
Smart choice. Like most of us, I heard the name being mentioned a few times on Hannity but not as much lately as Romney or (thankfully, not), Liebermann. I've been glued to Fox News this morning, and from what I've been able to learn about Palin, I think I like this pick. I just saw some clips of her on Fox visiting the troops in Iraq, hefting an M-16...and she's apparently a lifelong NRA member, too. Cool beans...

Her oldest son, Track, is about to be deployed to Iraq apparently.

biccat
08-29-2008, 11:11 AM
Her oldest son, Track, is about to be deployed to Iraq apparently.
Oh jeez. Does she have stupid trendy names for her kids? This could be a deal breaker...

linda22003
08-29-2008, 11:12 AM
Oh jeez. Does she have stupid trendy names for her kids? This could be a deal breaker...

Yep. Every dam' one of 'em. Track, Bristol, Willow, Piper, and Trig.

Elspeth
08-29-2008, 11:13 AM
Oh jeez. Does she have stupid trendy names for her kids? This could be a deal breaker...

Now now, people name their children all sorts of silly things. I mean, Michael Jackson named his kids Prince Michael and Blanket.:p

Goldwater
08-29-2008, 11:15 AM
Now now, people name their children all sorts of silly things. I mean, Michael Jackson named his kids Prince Michael and Blanket.:p

Yo Elspeth, are you voting McCain now?

biccat
08-29-2008, 11:16 AM
Yep. Every dam' one of 'em. Track, Bristol, Willow, Piper, and Trig.
Buh...
I...
um...
wow.

I don't know what to say. Just...wow.

Why would people do that to their children?

Chuck58
08-29-2008, 11:43 AM
Life Member of NRA? Not that I'm a one issue voter, but that counts for 10 points on the plus side on my list. I also understand she's not especially loved by the politicos in Alaska since she's done some things that have pissed both parties. That's another few points.

Apparently her husband is a commercial fisherman. More pluses. You're hard put to find a liberal blood cell in those guys, and she has a son going to Iraq.

Thumbs up on this choice here.

Katiebug
08-29-2008, 11:51 AM
I am pleased with this pick! :) She's young, she's a working mom, her hubby is an oil production worker and commercial fisherman (and took flak for continuing to work at his jobs after she was elected) - I think she can relate to the struggles of today's two-income families.

I also like that her actions have ticked off BOTH parties and she doesn't seem to care. She's very popular in Alaska.

Libs on another messageboard that I frequent are whining about how she's "anti-woman" because she chose not to terminate when they learned their baby had Down's Syndrome. :mad: As if choosing life for one's own situation is inherently anti-woman! That attitude is just appalling. Also the complaint is that she's too inexperienced and young. Really, I think they're complaining because she brings a lot to the table to balance out/complement McCain's experience and personal qualities!

LibraryLady
08-29-2008, 11:53 AM
I believe he's on a leave from BP


Her husband, Todd, is a Native Yup’ik Eskimo. Outside the fishing season, Todd works for at an oil field on the North Slope and is a champion snowmobiler, winning the 2000-mile “Iron Dog” race four times. The two eloped shortly after Palin graduated college; when they learned they needed witnesses for the civil ceremony, they recruited two residents from the old-age home down the street. The Palin family lives in Wasilla, about 40 miles (64 km) north of Anchorage.

wiki

movie buff
08-29-2008, 12:25 PM
She sounds like a good choice.

Molon Labe
08-29-2008, 12:25 PM
Smart move by McCain.

If he wins....In 4 years Hillarymay not even be on the radar as the most important female politician.

AlmostThere
08-29-2008, 12:26 PM
Also the complaint is that she's too inexperienced and young. Really, I think they're complaining because she brings a lot to the table to balance out/complement McCain's experience and personal qualities!
Young, inexperienced and has more executive experience than McCain, Obama and Biden COMBINED. She plays hockey so she's gotta be tough. :D

LibraryLady
08-29-2008, 12:33 PM
Anyone watching the announcement? She is coming over very well. Today is their 20th wedding anniversary. I am liking what I see.

AmPat
08-29-2008, 12:40 PM
Anyone watching the announcement? She is coming over very well. Today is their 20th wedding anniversary. I am liking what I see.
I liked her remark about having a servant's heart.
Her son joined the army last year on 9/11. He deployed to Iraq this year on 9/11. Her 25th anniversary and McCain's birthday. Did they miss a trick?

Elspeth
08-29-2008, 12:40 PM
Yo Elspeth, are you voting McCain now?

I thought I made that clear on day one. I have not budged. McCain just gave me a reason to vote for him instead of against Barry, but he was always getting my vote.

AlmostThere
08-29-2008, 12:41 PM
Not a lot of experience but comes across as someone with a lot of self-confidence. Speaks well to boot.

patsfan
08-29-2008, 12:44 PM
She strikes me as a winner! Strong conservative, good looking. Not that looks mean anything. Ahem.

Edit to add: The Obama Nation (Abomination) has dissed her small town roots. One more reason to vote for her.

LibraryLady
08-29-2008, 12:45 PM
Her son joined the army last year on 9/11. He deployed to Iraq this year on 9/11.

So DU had to pick at that.


KzooDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) t Fri Aug-29-08 12:36 PM
Original message (http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x3878296)
Palin's son being deployed to Iraq on September 11? Wonder who engineered that one for the optics?

Can't imagine that was coincidental.

Woo, she just hit on Hillary's 18 million cracks in the glass ceiling!!

Molon Labe
08-29-2008, 12:46 PM
check out her vogue! :p


http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://bp2.blogger.com/_uExTzMIDd1Y/R2O5nKq9_tI/AAAAAAAAATE/At2bb_K_3ao/s400/Sarah-Palin-Vogue.jpg&imgrefurl=http://kodiakkonfidential.blogspot.com/2007/12/sarah-in-vogue.html%3FshowComment%3D1197862200000&h=395&w=288&sz=35&hl=en&start=1&sig2=QDvoBA5lABhUlHU8Sl-0qw&um=1&usg=__ycseJ4YKnJ2P-SgKo_EM0Yk1UEQ=&tbnid=5IjheNLpxmsQcM:&tbnh=124&tbnw=90&ei=rye4SJWAM4iuec--6JYD&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dsarah%2Bpalin%2B%252B%2Bvogue%26um%3D 1%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Dactive%26sa%3DN

Elspeth
08-29-2008, 12:46 PM
So DU had to pick at that.


Woo, she just hit on Hillary's 18 million cracks in the glass ceiling!!

What a fantastic remark. They are right on message.

I like this ticket and I like this woman.

linda22003
08-29-2008, 12:49 PM
Well, she just finished, and I thought she made a very good first impression.

linda22003
08-29-2008, 12:50 PM
check out her vogue! :p



I hope you noticed the line that said that was photoshopped. She was in the February issue, but in very Alaska type clothing, and she was not on the cover.

AmPat
08-29-2008, 12:52 PM
She strikes me as a winner! Strong conservative, good looking. Not that looks mean anything. Ahem.

Edit to add: The Obama Nation (Abomination) has dissed her small town roots. One more reason to vote for her.

What? No way. Not after (pardon the pun) he tried to make hay over his small town Kansas roots.:rolleyes:

BTW, the Abomination was good.:D

Molon Labe
08-29-2008, 12:54 PM
I hope you noticed the line that said that was photoshopped. She was in the February issue, but in very Alaska type clothing, and she was not on the cover.

Yes maam I did...;) That's what the little funny is for (:p)

LibraryLady
08-29-2008, 12:56 PM
What a fantastic remark. They are right on message.

I like this ticket and I like this woman.

helderheid Donating Member (1000+ posts) J Fri Aug-29-08 12:47 PM
Original message (http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x6811852)
"Thanks Hillary for cracking that ceiling! I'll take it from here!"


CatBO (153 posts)
2. So...

She's a whore.

Only took five minutes for her to prove it.

Sometimes I can't believe what I see over there.

Shannon
08-29-2008, 12:59 PM
I think I like her. I think she may really invigorate McCain's campaign.

FlaGator
08-29-2008, 01:00 PM
I feel that this choice is the best possible one for McCain to make. The fact that it's got the DUers all tied in knots is just icing on the cake.

LibraryLady
08-29-2008, 01:01 PM
I feel that this choice is the best possible one for McCain to make. The fact that it's got the DUers all tied in knots is just icing on the cake.


Did Zer-0 make some kind of speech yesterday?:rolleyes:

Chuck58
08-29-2008, 01:06 PM
She strikes me as a winner! Strong conservative, good looking. Not that looks mean anything. Ahem.

Edit to add: The Obama Nation (Abomination) has dissed her small town roots. One more reason to vote for her.

Yeah, and whacking her small town roots will go over real well if that comment gets any play. The Dims think America is NYC, Chicago, LA and Seattle.

GenYConservative
08-29-2008, 01:15 PM
If that pick won't steal Obama's thunder, I don't know what will...

Odysseus
08-29-2008, 01:25 PM
Yeah, and whacking her small town roots will go over real well if that comment gets any play. The Dims think America is NYC, Chicago, LA and Seattle.

Well, that is where their voters are. BTW, Wonkette refers to her as the "GILF" and you can see why. :p

http://nicedeb.files.wordpress.com/2008/08/wwp-photo2.jpg?w=522&h=397
http://wonkette.com/assets/resources/2006/12/Miss%20Wasilla%201984.jpg

Elspeth
08-29-2008, 01:39 PM
This pick by McCain was top notch. He did take a risk and did not play it safe.

Before the primary season, the conventional wisdom was that the Democrats had a slam dunk this year. They could have picked anyone (except Kucinich) and won. That was, I think, the logic of picking Obama. If any Dem could win, then a black, inexperienced Dem could win. The conventional wisdom also saw no way for the Republicans to win: the Republican "brand" was shot. The conservative base was disillusioned.

With the choice of McCain, it was possible that many conservatives would stay home. And, had Hillary won the primary-- and in any normal year without "partial credit" primaries, major caucus fraud and the disenfranchisement of Florida and Michigan, she would have--there would have been Republican moderate women who would have crossed party lines to vote for the first woman President. (I know a lot of these women.) A McCain vs Clinton match would have resulted in a win for the Dems.

But the Democrats were so incredibly stupid. Obama and his surrogates played the race card against the Clintons, of all people, which angered many Clinton fans, male and female. It also angered white Democrats who are dedicated to Civil Rights. Obama also was covertly and overtly misogynist ("99 Problems and the Bitch ain't one" played at his Iowa win, among other things) which angered the female base which is 60% of the Democratic party. And finally, Obama's association with the anti-gay Donnie McClurkin and other conservative Black (anti-gay, anti-choice) preachers, alienated many gay Democrats; the fact is, that gay rights was not even mentioned in the first draft of the Democratic platform and a major fight was necessary to get it back in. Leah Daughtry, a Black Liberation Theology preacher, had a major influence on the Democratic Platfom, and there is currently a lawsuit against the Democratic Party by a gay man who was fired because his boyfriend spoke out against the platform.

If ever a candidate stood for DIS-unity, it was Barry Obama. If had a tinfoil hat, I would see him as a Rovian agent!

So here is Barry, alienating many party regulars (women, gays, white male moderates) and running a lackluster campaign, where all he could do was play the race card. The one thing that could have saved him was Hillary on the ticket--she'd have brought her voters with her. But, Barry was too stupid and stubborn for that. Like his wife, he's petulant, and can't do anything for the greater good, only what makes him feel good. Not a good omen for President.

McCain has benefitted immensely from Barry's stupidity. He is moderate enough that some Hillary men and women can vote for him. He has poked holes in Barry's background with great skill. His commercials have skewered Barry. But, yesterday, McCain showed his class (or wiles) by shooting a very kind comgratulatory commercial on Barry being the first black candidate for President, and he mentions MLK's anniversary.

Then McCain makes the most brilliant move of all: a true conservative, a female, young, with kids, and lots of energy. She's also a governor in an election of Washington insider Senators. Here is his olive branch to the base and his invitation to Hillary women who can't stand the thought of voting for Barry the misogyinist. Palin will bring the conservatives out to vote FOR the ticket. She will also keep the Republican women moderates (no HIllary to vote for) and she will get some crossover Dems.

When Barry picked Biden, McCain said nice things about the choice. Barry's campaign has come out hypercritical of the Sarah Palin choice and has accused her of having "no experience!" Bad mistake, Barry. Bad mistake.

The Democratic party--and specifically the African American contingent of the Democratic party--have thrown away this election. This is not a racist statement: it is simply the truth. If Barry loses, racism will be blamed. But it will really have been Barry's own stupidity.

jay howard
08-29-2008, 01:41 PM
It really doesn't matter who McCain picked, the loyal 20% would be laying on the same kind of praise.

This is just as true for the loyal Obama fans--he could have picked Moses Wankelburg--city councilman of Jenson, WI, and the loyal fans would be pouring on the praise.

And with McCain's pick -- (with the exception of Liebermann) -- this choice wasn't about how the people on this website felt about it, it was about how they could maybe sway a few disgruntled Hillary fans and polish off some tarnish on his misogyny rap. They're trying to give McCain's campaign the appearance of "being outside the box" or "not Washington insiders". It's a good strategy, though it seems a Kay Baily Hutchison would have been a smarter pick or at least a more experienced woman, but nonetheless, a good strategic pick.

For the loyal 20% on either side, they could have nominated a trash bag named Ed, and it wouldn't change their vote. Of course, you are the loyal 20%, so you may feel slighted by this observation. But it doesn't change the truth of it.

If Romney had gotten the nomination, you'd be in his corner. If Mike Gravel had gotten the dem nomination, your ideological counterparts would be pushing his merits just the same.

Your opinions are pretty much irrelevant to your party because they could drink the blood of a white baby on live television and everyone here would still vote for them--because they "feel safer" if the guy has an (R) by his name than a (D). And they know this.

The only votes in contention are the middle-ground, true independents.



.

Elspeth
08-29-2008, 01:54 PM
The only votes in contention are the middle-ground, true independents.



.

Welcome to the middle ground. Last fall, I was going to vote Dem (as usual) no matter what. What a difference a primary makes.

And, a trash bag named Ed would be infinitely preferable to Obama.

ConJinx
08-29-2008, 01:55 PM
I couldn't have voted for McCain without this pick. I've known about some of the things she pulled of in Alaska, but I never thought McCain would actually listen to we, the often unheard conservatives. Now I can be proud to tell my 12 year old daughter that the possibilites in America truly are boundless. If McCain doesn't really screw up or if he God forbid dies in office, or resigns due to illness or whatever, we'll finally have our first female President.

ArmyRet
08-29-2008, 01:58 PM
Well, that is where their voters are. BTW, Wonkette refers to her as the "GILF" and you can see why. :p

GILF? How about VPILF? :D

http://www.vpilf.com/

http://web.me.com/dnksr/vpilf.com/SARAH_PALIN__Vice_President_Nominee/SARAH_PALIN__Vice_President_Nominee_files/PalinHead.jpg



edited to fix quote

LibraryLady
08-29-2008, 02:10 PM
In 2012, Hillary could be facing a woman opponent if McCain only serves one term.

megimoo
08-29-2008, 02:12 PM
I feel that this choice is the best possible one for McCain to make. The fact that it's got the DUers all tied in knots is just icing on the cake.

I love it when those liberal swine offer us their political advice .The more they whine the more we know it is the right choice MC Cain made .

If you pay attention to their unstated objections they are full of fear over Obama and are starting to realize that he is a very poor choice for POTUS on their part .

Next they will start to sling any dirt they can find and will call her a sow for having so many kids and being married to a part native American.

She brings a strong anti-abortion stance to the ticket and opposes gay marriage — constitutionally banned in Alaska before her time — but exercised a veto that essentially granted benefits to gay state employees and their partners.

Palin lives in Wasilla, a town of 6,500 about 30 miles north of Anchorage, with her husband, Todd, a blue-collar North Slope oil worker who competes in the Iron Dog, a 1,900-mile snowmobile race. He is part Yup'ik Eskimo.

The Palins have five children: Track, 19; Bristol 17; Willow 14; Piper, 7, and Trig, who was born in April.

Track enlisted in the Army in 2007 on the sixth anniversary of the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks, and has been assigned to Fort Wainwright in Fairbanks.

Palin was born Feb. 11, 1964, in Idaho, but her parents moved to Alaska shortly after her birth to teach. She received a bachelor of science degree in communications-journalism from the University of Idaho in 1987.

Before becoming governor, her political experience consisted of terms as Wasilla's mayor and councilwoman and a stint as head of the Alaska Oil and Gas Conservation Commission.

"Sarah Palin for her entire political career has been underestimated," said Paulette Simpson of the Alaska Federation of Republican Women. "She's tough, she's tenacious. I believe that she does have what it takes to get out there. Again, her ability to connect with voters and make a case is very, very, very strong."


Palin, who led the Fellowship of Christian Athletes chapter at her high school, could help McCain's standing with social conservatives who have been skeptical of him.

"It's an absolutely brilliant choice," said Mathew Staver, dean of Liberty University School of Law and founder of the legal group Liberty Counsel, who has sought to coalesce evangelicals around McCain. "This will absolutely energize McCain's campaign and energize conservatives."

Palin is "a woman of faith who has a strong position on life, a consistent opinion on judges," Staver said. "She's the complete package."

She has more experience catching fish as a former commercial fisherwoman than dealing with foreign policy or national affairs,But She beats the hell out of slow Joe Biden on common sense !

Here is more 'frosting on the cake' .:D
Democratic Sen. Chuck, the schmuck, Schumer doesn't like her,he said McCain was taking a "roll of the dice" and declared that Palin's "lack of experience makes the thought of her assuming the presidency troubling."

Sarah Palin becoming POTUS doesn't trouble me at all !

Maybe they can have some liberal school teacher ask her to spell potatoe and prove that she is just a stupid out of touch blubber eating Eskimo !

cat714
08-29-2008, 02:16 PM
If that pick won't steal Obama's thunder, I don't know what will...

I couldn't agree with you more. I was shocked, but excited with this pick. Talk about a surprise. I thought for sure McCain was leaning towards picking Romney. That wouldn't have been a bad choice, but you got the Mormon issue that freaks people out, especially the hardline Christians. McCain is clever... Palin is the working/middle class family. The democrats are stumped on this one...LOL!!!

Homie Obie and his whacko running mate are probably saying, "WTF are we going to do now?" Many feel he stole the nomination from HRC and that she has been treated unfairly by the DNC. A lot of those voters are now going to vote McCain.

Nay sayers can't say sh*t about no experience because their homeboy has none. As a matter of fact no one knew what he stood for until he gave that long boring speech last night.

Who needs "hope" :rolleyes: when there is promise on the Republican ticket. McCain/Palin 08!

patsfan
08-29-2008, 02:19 PM
Yeah, and whacking her small town roots will go over real well if that comment gets any play. The Dims think America is NYC, Chicago, LA and Seattle.

Tack that onto the end of the comment that Ubama made about "bitter small-town Americans clinging to their guns and bibles" and you have enough dynamite to blow him out of the water!

jay howard
08-29-2008, 02:23 PM
Welcome to the middle ground. Last fall, I was going to vote Dem (as usual) no matter what. What a difference a primary makes.

And, a trash bag named Ed would be infinitely preferable to Obama.

Please, I've been posting on this site since 2003. This isn't called "conservative underground" because of its appeal to independent thinkers.

The same applies to dem underground. They have about the same capacity to change their minds in light of new evidence--very little.

Chances are, if you're an active participant on this site, you are looking for justifications and rationales for particular ideological stances. Sure, there are some independent thinkers here and I'm well aware that not everyone agrees with everyone about the "right wing" staple of beliefs, but at the same time, you've got to admit, this isn't exactly the place to hear unbiased analysis of the facts.

I tried expressing my disagreement with our leaders reasons for going into Iraq back in January of 2003 and was instantly labeled "unAmerican" "appeaser" "terrorist supporter" "jay howard the gay coward" (my favorite), and a slew of other baseless insults--for simply asking someone to make a case for invading Iraq that had a shred of substance.

Not to turn this conversation to Iraq--that will go nowhere. The point is that this is ground zero for the base of the republican party. This is not where independent thinkers hang out to get "the facts".

This seems so obvious that it hardly needs to be said, and yet someone wants to disagree with me over this. It just goes to the point: if you are not "in the club" here, your views will be quickly ganged up on. Before I even post this response, people have pigeonholed me as a threat to their belief system--a "liberal", "enemy" or otherwise not in the club. Why? Because I point out the obvious. That this isn't where independents go to make up their minds. This is where people who already believe the same basic things go to pat each other on the back and occasionally offer some moral guidance for those who have slipped off the path.



.

patsfan
08-29-2008, 02:33 PM
Your problem is that you equate an ideology with a party.

Conservatism does not necessarily equal Republican.

Elspeth
08-29-2008, 02:34 PM
Please, I've been posting on this site since 2003. This isn't called "conservative underground" because of its appeal to independent thinkers.


.

I was talking about myself as "middle ground" not about this site.

Odysseus
08-29-2008, 02:49 PM
Please, I've been posting on this site since 2003. This isn't called "conservative underground" because of its appeal to independent thinkers.
The same applies to dem underground. They have about the same capacity to change their minds in light of new evidence--very little.
Chances are, if you're an active participant on this site, you are looking for justifications and rationales for particular ideological stances. Sure, there are some independent thinkers here and I'm well aware that not everyone agrees with everyone about the "right wing" staple of beliefs, but at the same time, you've got to admit, this isn't exactly the place to hear unbiased analysis of the facts.

I'd say that we're a bit more tolerant of dissent than DU. Look at Logan's Papa, Eyelids and a few other leftists who regularly post here. My one foray into DU got me tombstoned within about six hours, and I was polite, civil and obviously pissed them off beyond belief. The standards of conduct here are usually a lot better (with the obvious exception of Gator, who would fit in at DU now without any difficulty).

And just because she's the topic of conversation and the thread, and I'd like to keep it on track, here's another pic of the VP nominee:
http://www.errikk.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/sarah-palin-214x300.jpg
And another:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/58/Sarah_Palin_seated.jpg/393px-
Let's face it, she looks better in a dress than any other veep nominee, including Rudy Giuliani.
http://www.samefacts.com/archives/giuliani%20drag.jpg

hampshirebrit
08-29-2008, 03:13 PM
Sometimes I can't believe what I see over there.

That so defines DU, these days.

I'm just waiting for our good buddy Eyelids to show up.

LibraryLady
08-29-2008, 03:15 PM
He will be here before long squealing "poll bounce" and his usual drivel.

hampshirebrit
08-29-2008, 03:18 PM
This pick by McCain was top notch. He did take a risk and did not play it safe.

Before the primary season, the conventional wisdom was that the Democrats had a slam dunk this year. They could have picked anyone (except Kucinich) and won. That was, I think, the logic of picking Obama. If any Dem could win, then a black, inexperienced Dem could win. The conventional wisdom also saw no way for the Republicans to win: the Republican "brand" was shot. The conservative base was disillusioned.

With the choice of McCain, it was possible that many conservatives would stay home. And, had Hillary won the primary-- and in any normal year without "partial credit" primaries, major caucus fraud and the disenfranchisement of Florida and Michigan, she would have--there would have been Republican moderate women who would have crossed party lines to vote for the first woman President. (I know a lot of these women.) A McCain vs Clinton match would have resulted in a win for the Dems.

But the Democrats were so incredibly stupid. Obama and his surrogates played the race card against the Clintons, of all people, which angered many Clinton fans, male and female. It also angered white Democrats who are dedicated to Civil Rights. Obama also was covertly and overtly misogynist ("99 Problems and the Bitch ain't one" played at his Iowa win, among other things) which angered the female base which is 60% of the Democratic party. And finally, Obama's association with the anti-gay Donnie McClurkin and other conservative Black (anti-gay, anti-choice) preachers, alienated many gay Democrats; the fact is, that gay rights was not even mentioned in the first draft of the Democratic platform and a major fight was necessary to get it back in. Leah Daughtry, a Black Liberation Theology preacher, had a major influence on the Democratic Platfom, and there is currently a lawsuit against the Democratic Party by a gay man who was fired because his boyfriend spoke out against the platform.

If ever a candidate stood for DIS-unity, it was Barry Obama. If had a tinfoil hat, I would see him as a Rovian agent!

So here is Barry, alienating many party regulars (women, gays, white male moderates) and running a lackluster campaign, where all he could do was play the race card. The one thing that could have saved him was Hillary on the ticket--she'd have brought her voters with her. But, Barry was too stupid and stubborn for that. Like his wife, he's petulant, and can't do anything for the greater good, only what makes him feel good. Not a good omen for President.

McCain has benefitted immensely from Barry's stupidity. He is moderate enough that some Hillary men and women can vote for him. He has poked holes in Barry's background with great skill. His commercials have skewered Barry. But, yesterday, McCain showed his class (or wiles) by shooting a very kind comgratulatory commercial on Barry being the first black candidate for President, and he mentions MLK's anniversary.

Then McCain makes the most brilliant move of all: a true conservative, a female, young, with kids, and lots of energy. She's also a governor in an election of Washington insider Senators. Here is his olive branch to the base and his invitation to Hillary women who can't stand the thought of voting for Barry the misogyinist. Palin will bring the conservatives out to vote FOR the ticket. She will also keep the Republican women moderates (no HIllary to vote for) and she will get some crossover Dems.

When Barry picked Biden, McCain said nice things about the choice. Barry's campaign has come out hypercritical of the Sarah Palin choice and has accused her of having "no experience!" Bad mistake, Barry. Bad mistake.

The Democratic party--and specifically the African American contingent of the Democratic party--have thrown away this election. This is not a racist statement: it is simply the truth. If Barry loses, racism will be blamed. But it will really have been Barry's own stupidity.

Good analysis, if I may say so.

4jacks
08-29-2008, 03:21 PM
She seems pretty top notch to me! I'm excited about it, can't wait to go home and talk to the wife about it and do a little "booyaa Obama got pwned" dance.

I'm a little offended about calling her gilf and vpilf. I mean come on, she's got 5 kids and is running for VP, She and her family deserve more respect than that!

I do think she is awesome though, because she greatly reminds me of the wonderful qualities I see in my wife.

This is going to be a good year I can feel it.

Jay Howard, Not to call you out, but your profile clearly states you just joined and have 6 posts. Also, what you are saying is kinda common knowledge. That is exactly why I joined up just recently. I wanted a place to talk to other conservative. I think the idea of anyone being an independent thinker and unbiased is a little naive. We are all influenced by our parents and our teachers (whether we accept their ideas or reject them.) There are no completely unbiased 18 year olds getting ready to vote for the first time.

Eyelids
08-29-2008, 03:43 PM
Serious Question: Has Sarah Palin ever been outside North America?

LibraryLady
08-29-2008, 03:46 PM
You really don't know how to research do you blinky. She went to the Middle East to visit the troops. Her son will be deployed there next month.

Have you ever been out of Illinois?

Eyelids
08-29-2008, 03:47 PM
You really don't know how to research do you blinky. She went to the Middle East to visit the troops. Her son will be deployed there next month.

Have you ever been out of Illinois?

you're gonna need to provide a link. and yes, I've been to every state east of Iowa.

jay howard
08-29-2008, 03:47 PM
I'd say that we're a bit more tolerant of dissent than DU. Look at Logan's Papa, Eyelids and a few other leftists who regularly post here. My one foray into DU got me tombstoned within about six hours, and I was polite, civil and obviously pissed them off beyond belief. The standards of conduct here are usually a lot better (with the obvious exception of Gator, who would fit in at DU now without any difficulty).

True. Gator tried so hard to frame anything I said in criticism of the war as "troop bashing" so he could justify banning me. But it's certainly easier to get banned at DU than here, no doubt.

I got kicked off Freerepublic in about 5 posts by asking what "conservative" meant.

Still, the point remains that the praise here means little. What matters is whether the independents and disgruntled Hillary voters will be drawn to a McCain presidency by virtue of Palin. There is good reason to believe that Palin has some draw for these groups, but with Hill's full-on "you're wilth me for Obama or against me for McCain" endorsement, that percentage will likely be insignificant.

There are diehards on the other side who see Palin as a straight pandering, strategic move and will be disinclined to vote at all to consider in evaluating her as VP pick. It's only guesses as to what the actual numbers are on these, but my from-the-hip guess is that both will be insignificant in the final analysis. We will see.

Anyone here think Hillary loyalists will be motivated to vote (R) by a pro-life, card-carrying NRA member because she's a woman?


.

LibraryLady
08-29-2008, 03:54 PM
blinks, if you were one of my students I would have failed you. Your not only ignorant but lazy.


Palin visits Alaskan troops in Kuwait

Tue, July 24, 2007
Posted in Alaska News, Top Stories

Governor Palin today visited with a National Guard unit from Alaska serving in Kuwait. In a press conference with Alaska reporters, the governor said she had spent “an amazing day with the 297th infantry battalion and other National Guard troops.”
http://aprn.org/2007/07/24/palin-visits-alaskan-troops-in-kuwait/

Eyelids
08-29-2008, 03:55 PM
blinks, if you were one of my students I would have failed you. Your not only ignorant but lazy.

..........

LibraryLady
08-29-2008, 03:57 PM
You are really funny. I taught for a while until I had a few moronic students like you.

Eyelids
08-29-2008, 03:59 PM
Then you were convinced to quit ...

jay howard
08-29-2008, 04:01 PM
Jay Howard, Not to call you out, but your profile clearly states you just joined and have 6 posts. Also, what you are saying is kinda common knowledge. That is exactly why I joined up just recently. I wanted a place to talk to other conservative. I think the idea of anyone being an independent thinker and unbiased is a little naive. We are all influenced by our parents and our teachers (whether we accept their ideas or reject them.) There are no completely unbiased 18 year olds getting ready to vote for the first time.

That's all right, Jacks. The administrators/owners have redone this site at least 3 times since I joined--probably more. Each time they asked members to notify them to keep their post count going and all that. I never did because it never mattered to me. Since about 2005 or so, I didn't keep up and the site got redone. My account probably got deleted for lack of activity, but nonetheless, I've been posting here since 2003.

Some of the older members here will attest to it.

As for the independent thinkers, I agree with you. My point was that it makes no difference who the VP pick was or even who got the nomination, an invariable 20% of the base (that's why they are called the base) would back their candidate and his VP pick. Same for any ideology/party. So I was pointing out how the VP pick didn't have anything to do with what the people here thought--the party leaders know no matter what, they've always got their 20% in lockstep.

The choice was about the people in the middle. The discussion should be about how the VP pick will or will not affect that group--if the effect will be a net gain or net loss or zero sum. Some here would like to say they are "independent thinkers"--that may be true for a small minority here, but for most, it ain't.

So any talk about "what a great pick she is" is absolutely irrelevant. Of course that's what everyone here thinks. What matters is what effect this will have on the people on the fence.



.

LibraryLady
08-29-2008, 04:04 PM
No, then I became a store manager for Borders Group, went back for my Master's degree and subsequently retired from a University. Amazing what you can do if you don't expect a government handout.

I guess you will never find out. Are you a janitor at the university or do you help out in the computer lab? I have friends there and we just about have you pinpointed.

Eyelids
08-29-2008, 04:06 PM
Why do you have such a personal vendetta against me? I'd be glad to take you on but not on every thread on the board.

LibraryLady
08-29-2008, 04:08 PM
It makes me sad to see how much ignorance is being allowed to continue through our education system. I really thought when you came here, you might learn something but you wallow in stupidity.

Eyelids
08-29-2008, 04:10 PM
Learn something? Like convert to your political and economic ideologies because of peer pressure?

Have you ever read 1984, Welfy?

Phillygirl
08-29-2008, 04:13 PM
True. Gator tried so hard to frame anything I said in criticism of the war as "troop bashing" so he could justify banning me. But it's certainly easier to get banned at DU than here, no doubt.

I got kicked off Freerepublic in about 5 posts by asking what "conservative" meant.

Still, the point remains that the praise here means little. What matters is whether the independents and disgruntled Hillary voters will be drawn to a McCain presidency by virtue of Palin. There is good reason to believe that Palin has some draw for these groups, but with Hill's full-on "you're wilth me for Obama or against me for McCain" endorsement, that percentage will likely be insignificant.

There are diehards on the other side who see Palin as a straight pandering, strategic move and will be disinclined to vote at all to consider in evaluating her as VP pick. It's only guesses as to what the actual numbers are on these, but my from-the-hip guess is that both will be insignificant in the final analysis. We will see.

Anyone here think Hillary loyalists will be motivated to vote (R) by a pro-life, card-carrying NRA member because she's a woman?


.

Actually, I do. One of Hillary's attraction to some was her breaking the gender barrier. We all like to see barriers broken. Those of us that are more die hard political fans, prefer to see it done by our party. Those that actually spend their time knowing every detail of the horticultural world, rather than the political world, are more likely swayed by what they see on the outside...gender, race, speech making abilities, etc.

That middle "swing" vote will have a lot of soccer moms that love the idea of a woman in the white house...and not just to serve the tea.

Palin, even for the party people, adds some excitement and buzz to the election. The GOP needed it. A colleauge of mine (who was voting McCain anyway...but she's a former 70's hippie chick), told me somewhat sheepishly, that she found herself tearing up when she heard Palin was the pick. She honestly said she didn't expect to feel that way, but now can understand a little bit of what many blacks feel about Obama. She's thrilled to see a woman have a real shot at the white house...and more thrilled that it's our party that's enabling it.

BEG
08-29-2008, 04:14 PM
Buh...
I...
um...
wow.

I don't know what to say. Just...wow.

Why would people do that to their children?



My friend from high school just had a grandson today, her daughter named him RIDDICK and his last name is TIDDLE.....I kid you not. :rolleyes:

Phillygirl
08-29-2008, 04:18 PM
Yep. Every dam' one of 'em. Track, Bristol, Willow, Piper, and Trig.

Yeah...that kind of threw me off.

gator
08-29-2008, 04:19 PM
My friend from high school just had a grandson today, her daughter named him RIDDICK and his last name is TIDDLE.....I kid you not. :rolleyes:

BEG

I would be very interested in your input into the thread on banging Sara Palin.

http://www.conservativeunderground.com/forum505/showthread.php?t=3758

Thanks

Gator

linda22003
08-29-2008, 04:23 PM
I think it's an ok choice, but I won't really know what I'm supposed to think until Mike128 shows up and tells us if HE approves. Naturally, I'm very concerned about that. :rolleyes:

BEG
08-29-2008, 04:27 PM
BEG

I would be very interested in your input into the thread on banging Sara Palin.

http://www.conservativeunderground.com/forum505/showthread.php?t=3758

Thanks

Gator



I have nothing of substance to add to your thread there Gator.

BurningWind
08-29-2008, 04:30 PM
Learn something? Like convert to your political and economic ideologies because of peer pressure?

Have you ever read 1984, Welfy?

Are you REALLY that dense? She just kicked your ass in debate.

BurningWind
08-29-2008, 04:31 PM
I have nothing of substance to add to your thread there Gator.

Is that a surprise?

bijou
08-29-2008, 05:08 PM
Yea but ...

Stop the off topic personal abuse or the thread will be locked. If you have a problem with Library Lady take it to the Thunder Dome.

Verbosus
08-29-2008, 05:10 PM
You should see the names on my mother's side of the family:
Ersil, SemiJoe, Boots, Blanche (my mom), and Geiter (pronounced Jeeter).
And they were born in the 20's and 30's.

(edited for spelling 'born', of all things)

4jacks
08-29-2008, 05:13 PM
As for the independent thinkers, I agree with you. My point was that it makes no difference who the VP pick was or even who got the nomination, an invariable 20% of the base (that's why they are called the base) would back their candidate and his VP pick. Same for any ideology/party. So I was pointing out how the VP pick didn't have anything to do with what the people here thought--the party leaders know no matter what, they've always got their 20% in lockstep.

The choice was about the people in the middle. The discussion should be about how the VP pick will or will not affect that group--if the effect will be a net gain or net loss or zero sum. Some here would like to say they are "independent thinkers"--that may be true for a small minority here, but for most, it ain't.

I honestly just think it's refreshing to talk to other conservatives about politics. Swaying the people in the middle ground doesn't have to be the goal of a forum.




So any talk about "what a great pick she is" is absolutely irrelevant. Of course that's what everyone here thinks. What matters is what effect this will have on the people on the fence.


I think it may get a lot of the youth vote. Women and Men, who perhaps don't follow the issues (abortion, gun control, socialism) and just think it would be refreshing to have a woman in the office. Of course Obama has that too. So it's really just stealing some thunder from Obama.

PoliCon
08-29-2008, 06:48 PM
This pick is genius!

Not only has he finally found something - SOMEONE - who can energize the base, but he has marginalized Obama's "minority" status by trumping his half blackness with a whole woman! :) There are plenty of disgruntled Hillary voters - and plenty more just plain old women voters who will be ecstatic about voting for McCain now. :)

I have been holding back my contributions waiting to see who McCain picked - I for one will now contribute.

Penguins Fan
08-29-2008, 08:01 PM
I believe this to be a great choice.

McCain energized the conservative base he needs to win the election. Palin is a solid conservative. The fact that Commurats and certain Washington insiders have criticized the selection of Palin shows it was a good choice.

Wacky Baracky is an empty suit. Biden is a plagarizer, a liar and usually wrong.

I have never cared for McCain and considered sitting this out. Not now.

Shannon
08-29-2008, 08:22 PM
I think Blinky is Gator's sock.

AmPat
08-29-2008, 09:06 PM
It really doesn't matter who McCain picked, the loyal 20% would be laying on the same kind of praise.

This is just as true for the loyal Obama fans--he could have picked Moses Wankelburg--city councilman of Jenson, WI, and the loyal fans would be pouring on the praise.

And with McCain's pick -- (with the exception of Liebermann) -- this choice wasn't about how the people on this website felt about it, it was about how they could maybe sway a few disgruntled Hillary fans and polish off some tarnish on his misogyny rap. They're trying to give McCain's campaign the appearance of "being outside the box" or "not Washington insiders". It's a good strategy, though it seems a Kay Baily Hutchison would have been a smarter pick or at least a more experienced woman, but nonetheless, a good strategic pick.

For the loyal 20% on either side, they could have nominated a trash bag named Ed, and it wouldn't change their vote. Of course, you are the loyal 20%, so you may feel slighted by this observation. But it doesn't change the truth of it.

If Romney had gotten the nomination, you'd be in his corner. If Mike Gravel had gotten the dem nomination, your ideological counterparts would be pushing his merits just the same.

Your opinions are pretty much irrelevant to your party because they could drink the blood of a white baby on live television and everyone here would still vote for them--because they "feel safer" if the guy has an (R) by his name than a (D). And they know this.

The only votes in contention are the middle-ground, true independents.
.

You make some good points except the percentages you pulled out of somewhere. It does appear as though you assume that C.U. members are like the lemmings from the left. Had you been paying attention, most of the members at C.U. are not McCain supporters so much as supporters of anyone opposed to electing an inexperienced, Marxist-Socialist, racist, pretender.:cool:

OwlMBA
08-29-2008, 09:11 PM
There is not much not to like about this lady. And heck, Barack and his cronies sure can't criticize her level of experience (although I am sure they will, which is hypocrisy at it's best). Hey, at least she has veto'd a bill before. Has Barack?

Brilliant move by McCain and the Republican strategists (and make no mistake, this was a strategy move).

AmPat
08-29-2008, 09:13 PM
you're gonna need to provide a link. and yes, I've been to every state east of Iowa.
The back of mommie's station wagon doesn't count.:cool:

SaintLouieWoman
08-29-2008, 09:13 PM
I think Blinky is Gator's sock.

Could be, similar posting styles at times. :D Just kidding!

Troll
08-29-2008, 09:32 PM
I wonder if all the people that claim that not voting for Obama is racism will now say that not voting for the McCain ticket is sexism?

Molon Labe
08-29-2008, 09:43 PM
I wonder if all the people that claim that not voting for Obama is racism will now say that not voting for the McCain ticket is sexism?

No. Racism trumps sexism in the liberal lexicon or multicultural sins. Just like experience only matters if you're going to be a Vice Pres...... but if your a Democratic Presidential candidate, little experience translates into being more than qualified to be the nominee for President. Oh and especially if you have a "D" next your name and represent blue states.

Football analogy...Democrat style.

It's analogous to believing that Aaron Rodgers should be your starting QB if Bret Favre is still available.
That's liberal thought processes.

Odysseus
08-29-2008, 09:46 PM
Still, the point remains that the praise here means little. What matters is whether the independents and disgruntled Hillary voters will be drawn to a McCain presidency by virtue of Palin. There is good reason to believe that Palin has some draw for these groups, but with Hill's full-on "you're wilth me for Obama or against me for McCain" endorsement, that percentage will likely be insignificant.
Some of Hillary's supporters will vote for anyone in possession of a uterus. If they could overlook her record, then they'll be thrilled with Gov Palin.
Also, the praise here is indicative of something that's been noticibly lacking on the Republican side, which is excitement. The party base just got energized. Appealing to independents is important, but if you don't get your base out to vote, you might as well not bother.

Learn something? Like convert to your political and economic ideologies because of peer pressure?
Have you ever read 1984, Welfy?
1984 didn't entail peer pressure, it entailled torture. If simple peer pressure can get you to change your mind about your closely held beliefs, then Obama is your obvious choice, just ask Jeremiah Wright. If, on the other hand, you can withstand torture and keep faith with your country and self, then John McCain is the man.

I think Blinky is Gator's sock.
No, he's too polite.

There is not much not to like about this lady. And heck, Barack and his cronies sure can't criticize her level of experience (although I am sure they will, which is hypocrisy at it's best). Hey, at least she has veto'd a bill before. Has Barack?
Brilliant move by McCain and the Republican strategists (and make no mistake, this was a strategy move).
Barack's people have already tried that, claiming that she got her start as the mayor of a small town in Alaska, without mentioning that she went on to become the governor. Of course, at that time, Barack was a "community activist," which means that while Sarah Palin was drafting budgets and running whole municipal departments, Obama was begging for services from people like Palin.

I wonder if all the people that claim that not voting for Obama is racism will now say that not voting for the McCain ticket is sexism?
They'd never do that, so we'll have to do it for them. :D

megimoo
08-29-2008, 10:17 PM
Buh...
I...
um...
wow.

I don't know what to say. Just...wow.

Why would people do that to their children?
How about Moon Unit, Dweezil, Ahmet Emuukha Rodan and Diva Thin Muffin Pigeen. ? Any better ?

paladin0
08-29-2008, 10:26 PM
I think this is an excellent choice.

Many libs are starting to hammer her on her perceived lack of experience. Well, unlike Obama she has executive branch experience and is commander in chief of troops. If the dems keep trying to take her apart on her lack of experience, they'll loose that debate. The Republicans have the person with the least experience as the 2ND person on the ticket, the Dems have that person on the top of the ticket.

The argument that this will be a third Bush term has now been soundly defeated. Gov. Palin has a proven track record of fighting corruption, and of course is nothing like Cheney. This will force the democrats to debate the issues, something they cannot win in.

Paladin0

lacarnut
08-30-2008, 12:35 AM
Please, I've been posting on this site since 2003. This isn't called "conservative underground" because of its appeal to independent thinkers.

The same applies to dem underground. They have about the same capacity to change their minds in light of new evidence--very little.



.

Your analogy is so illuminating. Not. The facts are that Independents make up about 30% of the vote. Whomever wins the majority of that vote usually win a Presidential election.

The topic is about a woman on the ticket. Obama screwed up by not picking Hillary. McCain hit a home run by picking a woman. Independents and women will flock to McCain's camp BECAUSE of this choice in my opinion. She will garner him many votes. And to your point; there are ONLY 2 or 3 thousand members on this site. So the action of this site or DU in regard to swaying voters is so minuscule, it is a no-brainier.

marinejcksn
08-30-2008, 04:12 AM
Tack that onto the end of the comment that Ubama made about "bitter small-town Americans clinging to their guns and bibles" and you have enough dynamite to blow him out of the water!

It always puts a smile on my face to know that Barry was talking about my home state of Pennsylvania when he made those comments. My dad, who's been a lifelong democrat (even he doesn't know why) was all fired up over those comments. Then he proceeded to describe the new rifle scope he bought for his Remington this buck season.:cool:

Barry, you magnificent bastard I read your book!:eek:

marinejcksn
08-30-2008, 04:33 AM
Barack's people have already tried that, claiming that she got her start as the mayor of a small town in Alaska, without mentioning that she went on to become the governor. Of course, at that time, Barack was a "community activist," which means that while Sarah Palin was drafting budgets and running whole municipal departments, Obama was begging for services from people like Palin.

They'd never do that, so we'll have to do it for them. :D

I just watched the "Rajun Cajun" Jimmy Carville get OWNED on Liberal King Live. He kept trying to make the case that if (god forbin) McCain should pass on while in office (which Libtards hope for, by the way) then Palin will be President and asked what qualifies her to be president? McCain's advisor then pointed out that Sarah Palin, the Reublican VP nom has more political experience then the democrats Presidential nom and read through the list of everything Sarah has done in office, then asked Cueball Carville to list Obama's accomplishments.

Jimmy changed the subject.:D

wilbur
08-30-2008, 03:12 PM
It appears she may be a creationist. Seriously calls her competency into question.

LibraryLady
08-30-2008, 03:16 PM
I think Blinky is Gator's sock.


That has crossed my mind as well.

Donations went way up yesterday.

Phillygirl
08-30-2008, 03:22 PM
It appears she may be a creationist. Seriously calls her competency into question.

Yeah. All those people that believe God created the universe are clearly incompetent dolts. We all know Mother Nature did it.

wilbur
08-30-2008, 03:46 PM
Yeah. All those people that believe God created the universe are clearly incompetent dolts. We all know Mother Nature did it.

No, all those people who believe the earth was created in six days, earth is ~10k years old, that things die because fictional characters adam and eve ate an apple are incompetent dolts. There's a difference between believing in God and believing that. Not sure which she is yet, but it looks like the former.

linda22003
08-30-2008, 03:47 PM
It appears she may be a creationist. Seriously calls her competency into question.

The Vice Presidency is not noted for its scientific requirements. Things like that are just to get the "values voters" to stop yapping.

wilbur
08-30-2008, 04:04 PM
The Vice Presidency is not noted for its scientific requirements. Things like that are just to get the "values voters" to stop yapping.

true that's why I said she might be but am not certain. I don't know much about her other than that yet.. It was simply the first thing I saw in the news today about her. Democrats are spamming negative stories about her on digg pretty fervently.

Troll
08-30-2008, 04:49 PM
It appears she may be a creationist. Seriously calls her competency into question.

We survived Gore; we can survive Palin.

wilbur
08-30-2008, 09:58 PM
We survived Gore; we can survive Palin.

Plot thickens... it looks like her church is dominionist (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominionism). The kind of people that would make Christianity more reminiscent of extremist Islam. The kind of people that would take away Christianity's fairly recent status as a "religion of peace".

jay howard
08-30-2008, 11:47 PM
Your analogy is so illuminating. Not. The facts are that Independents make up about 30% of the vote. Whomever wins the majority of that vote usually win a Presidential election.

That's my point. The people on this site aren't that 30%, so laying praise on Palin is irrelevant. What is relevant is what affect she will have on that 30%



The topic is about a woman on the ticket. Obama screwed up by not picking Hillary. McCain hit a home run by picking a woman. Independents and women will flock to McCain's camp BECAUSE of this choice in my opinion. She will garner him many votes. And to your point; there are ONLY 2 or 3 thousand members on this site. So the action of this site or DU in regard to swaying voters is so minuscule, it is a no-brainier.

But what about the percentage of the republican base that simply will not vote for a woman on the R ticket? I'm seriously glad Obama didn't put Hillary on the ticket. You can't listen to Sean Hannity for 5 minutes without him bringing up something the Clinton's did--usually to draw attention away from the latest Bush scandal. She's got a well-used target on her and years of baggage.

I remember members here used to use ugly pictures of her as their avatars. Most people on the right were saddened when she didn't get picked. Karl Rove even pushed for her nomination--if that's not an indication of what a poor choice she would've been.

Then there are those on the right who will be swayed to either not vote for McCain/Palin or vote for Obama/Biden because of the organized, strong message--by men. Sad but true.


.

PoliCon
08-30-2008, 11:58 PM
It appears she may be a creationist. Seriously calls her competency into question.
no worse than believing blindly in man made global warming if you ask me.

PoliCon
08-31-2008, 12:00 AM
No, all those people who believe the earth was created in six days, earth is ~10k years old, that things die because fictional characters adam and eve ate an apple are incompetent dolts. There's a difference between believing in God and believing that. Not sure which she is yet, but it looks like the former.
You do know that there are old earth as well as new earth creationist. Here - http://www.asa3.org/ASA/education/origins/methods2.htm - educate yourself at least a little bit on the issue if you are going to try and discuss it.

AmPat
08-31-2008, 12:34 AM
It appears she may be a creationist. Seriously calls her competency into question.

Why does it "call" anything of the sort into question now. Seems she has been exceptionally competent in all her past and present endeavours.

Kucinich believes in little green men and his competency isn't questioned. Al Gore believes he created the internet, same thing. Plenty of people have beliefs contrary to yours yet they performtheir role just fine.

marinejcksn
08-31-2008, 01:07 AM
Why does it "call" anything of the sort into question now. Seems she has been exceptionally competent in all her past and present endeavours.

Kucinich believes in little green men and his competency isn't questioned. Al Gore believes he created the internet, same thing. Plenty of people have beliefs contrary to yours yet they performtheir role just fine.

Extremely well put AmPat.

I'm a Christian through and through, but when it comes to religion and politics I'm reminded of the words of Barry Goldwater:

"When you say "radical right" today, I think of these moneymaking ventures by fellows like Pat Robertson and others who are trying to take the Republican party and make a religious organization out of it. If that ever happens, kiss politics goodbye."

Goldwater understood the far right evangelists a lot of times hurt Conservativism more then help it, and that you should be true to your religious beliefs but keep it out of politics as much as possible.

AmPat
08-31-2008, 01:12 AM
Extremely well put AmPat.

I'm a Christian through and through, but when it comes to religion and politics I'm reminded of the words of Barry Goldwater:

"When you say "radical right" today, I think of these moneymaking ventures by fellows like Pat Robertson and others who are trying to take the Republican party and make a religious organization out of it. If that ever happens, kiss politics goodbye."

Goldwater understood the far right evangelists a lot of times hurt Conservativism more then help it, and that you should be true to your religious beliefs but keep it out of politics as much as possible.

Agreed. I am a Christian also. I don't vote because of some mysterious visions, strange dancing around a bonfire wearing goat skin leggings, or force people to handle snakes,(at least not on the first visit).:eek: I believe in certain things and vote upon those beliefs. The party closest to those beliefs will get my vote.

rjas77
08-31-2008, 04:49 AM
Plot thickens... it looks like her church is dominionist (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominionism). The kind of people that would make Christianity more reminiscent of extremist Islam. The kind of people that would take away Christianity's fairly recent status as a "religion of peace".

per your source:


Dominionism: aiming either at a nation governed by Christians, or a nation governed by a conservative Christian understanding of biblical law

Kind of what the Founding Fathers based their beliefs on huh?

wilbur
08-31-2008, 08:41 AM
per your source:


Dominionism: aiming either at a nation governed by Christians, or a nation governed by a conservative Christian understanding of biblical law

Kind of what the Founding Fathers based their beliefs on huh?

Think sharia law, except the christian version.

PoliCon
08-31-2008, 08:53 AM
Think sharia law, except the christian version.
Justify your statement with specific examples please.

wilbur
08-31-2008, 09:18 AM
Justify your statement with specific examples please.

http://www.splcenter.org/intel/intelreport/article.jsp?aid=964

Palin's church appears to be directly affiliated with the "Joel's Army" reconstructivists. I wouldn't bet my life on this being true, but it will be interesting to see what happens as more info comes to light.

wilbur
08-31-2008, 09:20 AM
Why does it "call" anything of the sort into question now. Seems she has been exceptionally competent in all her past and present endeavours.

Kucinich believes in little green men and his competency isn't questioned. Al Gore believes he created the internet, same thing. Plenty of people have beliefs contrary to yours yet they performtheir role just fine.

Why does Obama's church affiliation call into question his ability to govern?

LibraryLady
08-31-2008, 09:21 AM
aha, wilbur is getting all his stuff right of Daily Kos.

wilbur
08-31-2008, 09:26 AM
You do know that there are old earth as well as new earth creationist. Here - http://www.asa3.org/ASA/education/origins/methods2.htm - educate yourself at least a little bit on the issue if you are going to try and discuss it.

I know more about creationism than most creationists do. Generally speaking, the common usage of the term is referring to young earth creationism, especially in political debates and discussions where the focus of discussion is usually about YEC in science classes. In this context, it appears she is a young earther. OEC is a little more ambiguous. Some deny scientific fact simply based on religious beliefs, some don't.

wilbur
08-31-2008, 09:27 AM
aha, wilbur is getting all his stuff right of Daily Kos.

If you want to find the dirt on liberal candidates surf the conservative sources... if you want to find excuses and feeble justifications, search the liberal ones. Vice versa for conservative candidates.

LibraryLady
08-31-2008, 09:57 AM
Yeah, they're so accurate and compassionate.

Currently they are saying that Trig is the son of the Palin's 17 year old daughter BY HER FATHER.


NoodleyAppendage (1000+ posts) Sat Aug-30-08 10:26

122. What many here don't understand. It doesn't matter if it's true or not. RUMOR IS TRUTH.

The modern laws of media hype and political warfare have a useful tenet:

Repeat ANYTHING or raise false concern over ANYTHING and it is likely to be planted in the conscious/subconscious of many voters.

If people start to think that there might be something fishy with Palin's last kid (if hers), then that's FINE. One more doubt (whether tied to reality or not) is another hesitation at the ballot box.

GET WITH THE PROGRAM PEOPLE. The "rising above it" bullshit has served us so well in the past, hasn't it?

If you have problems with the story, then STFU and get out of the way of Dems who are engaged in MODERN POLITICAL WARFARE. Go tend your garden or some other pedestrian task, because the "concern trolls" are not helping shape the message.

wilbur
08-31-2008, 10:08 AM
Yeah, they're so accurate and compassionate.

Currently they are saying that Trig is the son of the Palin's 17 year old daughter BY HER FATHER.

I don't read the comments... now THAT is a waste of time.. we can find any number of batshit insane people commenting on any political site from either side of the aisle. Daily KOS is about as accurate as Rush Limbaugh. In other words, when they are right it is the rare exception, but this story seems like it might be somewhat accurate. I havent seen enough to convince me, but it's interesting to talk about, and should be interesting to see what happens.

PoliCon
08-31-2008, 10:35 AM
http://www.splcenter.org/intel/intelreport/article.jsp?aid=964

Palin's church appears to be directly affiliated with the "Joel's Army" reconstructivists. I wouldn't bet my life on this being true, but it will be interesting to see what happens as more info comes to light.Specific examples of how what these people believe would be tantamount to Christian sharia law.

BESIDES - Being friends with another ministry does not mean that you share all of their theological beliefs any more than being a friend with a democrat makes a conservative guilty of that democrats idiocy.

PoliCon
08-31-2008, 10:37 AM
Why does Obama's church affiliation call into question his ability to govern?Obama sat directly under Wright and called him a spiritual leader. His relationship with Fr. Flager would be a better comparison.

PoliCon
08-31-2008, 10:38 AM
I know more about creationism than most creationists do. Generally speaking, the common usage of the term is referring to young earth creationism, especially in political debates and discussions where the focus of discussion is usually about YEC in science classes. In this context, it appears she is a young earther. OEC is a little more ambiguous. Some deny scientific fact simply based on religious beliefs, some don't.wilbur - I'm always amused when a non-believer claims to know more that those who actually believe about what it is that they believe. :rolleyes:

PoliCon
08-31-2008, 10:40 AM
I don't read the comments... now THAT is a waste of time.. we can find any number of batshit insane people commenting on any political site from either side of the aisle. Daily KOS is about as accurate as Rush Limbaugh. In other words, when they are right it is the rare exception, but this story seems like it might be somewhat accurate. I havent seen enough to convince me, but it's interesting to talk about, and should be interesting to see what happens.The daily kos has been independently verified to be right 98% of the time? Do you have a link for that?

Eyelids
08-31-2008, 10:59 AM
Yeah, they're so accurate and compassionate.

Currently they are saying that Trig is the son of the Palin's 17 year old daughter BY HER FATHER.

You dredge up the exact same kind of shit off conservative blogs. The whitey tape, this birth certificate bullshit... its all the EXACT SAME THING.

LibraryLady
08-31-2008, 11:03 AM
The wacky rumours on the right are usually in obscure blogs.

Kos thinks he's some kid of Dem king-maker and all the "progressives" come dance at this little get-together every year. Big difference.

lacarnut
08-31-2008, 11:04 AM
You dredge up the exact same kind of shit off conservative blogs. The whitey tape, this birth certificate bullshit... its all the EXACT SAME THING.

You dredge up your stupidity everytime you make a post.

wilbur
08-31-2008, 11:16 AM
Specific examples of how what these people believe would be tantamount to Christian sharia law.

BESIDES - Being friends with another ministry does not mean that you share all of their theological beliefs any more than being a friend with a democrat makes a conservative guilty of that democrats idiocy.

Given the amount of Christians and other churches everywhere who have disowned and labeled Joel's Army doctrine as heretical, it should be alarming to anyone to see a dangerous lunatic sect such as this actually have 'friendly churches'. And it appears they are more than a 'friendly ministry', but I'll wait and see if more info comes out.

See the movie Jesus Camp. That's Joel's Army, and you'll see the parallels between sharia. Dominionists... like Tood Bentley revival and allegedly Palin's church.

wilbur
08-31-2008, 11:20 AM
The daily kos has been independently verified to be right 98% of the time? Do you have a link for that?

I don't know what to tell you if you think Rush is right 98% of the time. One can be technically truthful, while only presenting the partial truths or leaving out others entirely. You can tell a lie with 100% truthful and factual information.

PoliCon
08-31-2008, 11:22 AM
Given the amount of Christians and other churches everywhere who have disowned and labeled Joel's Army doctrine as heretical, it should be alarming to anyone to see a dangerous lunatic sect such as this actually have 'friendly churches'. And it appears they are more than a 'friendly ministry', but I'll wait and see if more info comes out.

See the movie Jesus Camp. That's Joel's Army, and you'll see the parallels between sharia. Dominionists... like Tood Bentley revival and allegedly Palin's church.
Dumb ass - The catholic church labels all protestants and heretical and vise versa. And yet NObama's own church is friendly with a catholic parish. Does that mean that suddenly the RCC has dropped all of it's objections to protestant doctrines??

wilbur
08-31-2008, 11:35 AM
Dumb ass - The catholic church labels all protestants and heretical and vise versa.


Heretical? I dont think so. A lesser or flawed version of "the truth", but not heretical... at least not in this day and age.



And yet NObama's own church is friendly with a catholic parish. Does that mean that suddenly the RCC has dropped all of it's objections to protestant doctrines??

Of course not, but we can certainly judge that catholic parish by the company they choose to keep, and rightfully choose not to trust them for their choice of allies.. just like we do with anything or anyone else.

And of course, with this Joel's Army stuff, we are talking about something orders of magnitudes more crazy than a typical catholic or protestant church. Ted Haggard, Jimmy Swaggart, crazy or more.

PoliCon
08-31-2008, 11:50 AM
Heretical? I dont think so. A lesser or flawed version of "the truth", but not heretical... at least not in this day and age.
That's just the politically correct way of saying - "heretic's you're gonna burn in hell."



Of course not, but we can certainly judge that catholic parish by the company they choose to keep, and rightfully choose not to trust them for their choice of allies.. just like we do with anything or anyone else.
And can we judge NObama by the allies and company he choses to keep?

And of course, with this Joel's Army stuff, we are talking about something orders of magnitudes more crazy than a typical catholic or protestant church. OHHHHHHhhhhh. You mean that Joel's Army is Jermiah Wright/Fr. Flager kind of crazy. That's bad.

wilbur
08-31-2008, 12:15 PM
That's just the politically correct way of saying - "heretic's you're gonna burn in hell."


Its a polite way of saying that while certain flaws in other Christian sects may be an obstacle to one's salvation, it does not damn one to hell and they still may be saved through their 'lesser version of truth'. At least thats the catholic POV... many protestant sects are less forgiving.



And can we judge NObama by the allies and company he choses to keep?


Yes



OHHHHHHhhhhh. You mean that Joel's Army is Jermiah Wright/Fr. Flager kind of crazy. That's bad.

Yes

PoliCon
08-31-2008, 12:39 PM
Its a polite way of saying that while certain flaws in other Christian sects may be an obstacle to one's salvation, it does not damn one to hell and they still may be saved through their 'lesser version of truth'. At least thats the catholic POV... many protestant sects are less forgiving. No less forgiving than rome. Trust me. I've been walking the line between the two for 20+ years. Oh they talk nice "officially" when they want to be eccumenical - but when push comes to shove - there is no salvation outside of the ONE HOLY ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH.


Any reliable unbiased information on this movement?

wilbur
08-31-2008, 01:06 PM
No less forgiving than rome. Trust me. I've been walking the line between the two for 20+ years. Oh they talk nice "officially" when they want to be eccumenical - but when push comes to shove - there is no salvation outside of the ONE HOLY ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH.


Fair enough.



Any reliable unbiased information on this movement?

Havent found a whole lot of writeups outside this article: http://www.splcenter.org/intel/intelreport/article.jsp?aid=964

Youtube videos of this Ted Bentley guy are pretty scary, but typical of the mega church crazy faith healers, with a biker look sort of twist.

Palin's connections with all this are alleged, so I'm not really going to speculate much more about it till more info comes out. Going to worry about learning more about her actions, rather than her church's affiliations now.

PoliCon
08-31-2008, 01:24 PM
Fair enough.



Havent found a whole lot of writeups outside this article: http://www.splcenter.org/intel/intelreport/article.jsp?aid=964

Youtube videos of this Ted Bentley guy are pretty scary, but typical of the mega church crazy faith healers, with a biker look sort of twist. You got something against people who believe in miracles?


Palin's connections with all this are alleged, so I'm not really going to speculate much more about it till more info comes out. Going to worry about learning more about her actions, rather than her church's affiliations now.I'm going to chuck most of the "press" against this group to people attacking things that they do not understand and since she is not calling this guy pastor - going to any connection not direct irrelevant.

wilbur
08-31-2008, 01:28 PM
You got something against people who believe in miracles?

I have something against the delusional (or sometimes calculating) frauds like Bentley or any so-called faith healer for that matter.. and pity for the poor suckers who mistake theatrics for miracles.

PoliCon
08-31-2008, 01:41 PM
I have something against the delusional (or sometimes calculating) frauds like Bentley or any so-called faith healer for that matter.. and pity for the poor suckers who mistake theatrics for miracles. You're that sure that he's a fake? Interesting.

wilbur
08-31-2008, 02:26 PM
You're that sure that he's a fake? Interesting.

As sure as one can be of anything in this world, yes he is a fraud that much is obvious. Whether he believes his own bullshit, I do not know. Even entertaining the notion that he might not be fraudulent, with all the well documented histories of fraudulent 'faith-healers' and their well known modus operandi is beyond idiotic. He's running off the same template as the rest of them, only with tattoos.

Eyelids
08-31-2008, 02:26 PM
Kind of what the Founding Fathers based their beliefs on huh?

Yea, 3 fucking centuries ago.

OwlMBA
08-31-2008, 02:53 PM
. Oh they talk nice "officially" when they want to be eccumenical - but when push comes to shove - there is no salvation outside of the ONE HOLY ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH.


Aint that the truth!

But it is one heckuva money maker!

OwlMBA
08-31-2008, 02:54 PM
As sure as one can be of anything in this world, yes he is a fraud that much is obvious. Whether he believes his own bullshit, I do not know. Even entertaining the notion that he might not be fraudulent, with all the well documented histories of fraudulent 'faith-healers' and their well known modus operandi is beyond idiotic. He's running off the same template as the rest of them, only with tattoos.

That is also true.

PoliCon
08-31-2008, 04:59 PM
As sure as one can be of anything in this world, yes he is a fraud that much is obvious. Whether he believes his own bullshit, I do not know. Even entertaining the notion that he might not be fraudulent, with all the well documented histories of fraudulent 'faith-healers' and their well known modus operandi is beyond idiotic. He's running off the same template as the rest of them, only with tattoos.SO all faith healers are frauds? Talk about fearing what one does not understand. :(

PoliCon
08-31-2008, 05:00 PM
Yea, 3 fucking centuries ago.OMG - learn to count. Our country is not 300 years old NOR are there 60 states no matter what NObama says. sheesh

GrumpyOldLady
08-31-2008, 06:08 PM
- but when push comes to shove - there is no salvation outside of the ONE HOLY ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH.

Bull. Read the catechism. That's dead wrong.

BTW - It was John Paul II who said, just a few years before he died, that divine truth was found in ALL religions, but it is the Catholic Church belief that the 'fullness of faith' (NOT 'only route to salvation') is only in the Catholic Church. That's much more charitable then most of the fundamentalist christian sects running around the planet.

:rolleyes: Oy

Eyelids
08-31-2008, 06:34 PM
OMG - learn to count. Our country is not 300 years old NOR are there 60 states no matter what NObama says. sheesh

20th century - 1
19th century - 2
18th century - 3

Yay!

Sonnabend
08-31-2008, 07:51 PM
20th century - 1
19th century - 2
18th century - 3

Yay!

No.

1776 - 1800 = 14 years
1800 -1900 - 100 years
1900 - 2000 = 100 years
2000 - 2008 = 8 years

14 + 200 + 8 = 222 years, not 300.

Goldwater
08-31-2008, 08:08 PM
I like Palin a lot, but look back at VPs bar the Chenmeister and they really don't do anything...

Eyelids
08-31-2008, 09:03 PM
No.

1776 - 1800 = 14 years
1800 -1900 - 100 years
1900 - 2000 = 100 years
2000 - 2008 = 8 years

14 + 200 + 8 = 222 years, not 300.

Yes but those 222 years span 3 centuries. Wow hey I'm still stuck in the 90s too.

PoliCon
08-31-2008, 10:19 PM
Bull. Read the catechism. That's dead wrong.

BTW - It was John Paul II who said, just a few years before he died, that divine truth was found in ALL religions, but it is the Catholic Church belief that the 'fullness of faith' (NOT 'only route to salvation') is only in the Catholic Church. That's much more charitable then most of the fundamentalist christian sects running around the planet.

:rolleyes: OyMa'am - I have. The new one and the old one. I have read Vatican II as well as quite a few papal bulls. I know what Rome teaches and believes better than most RC's - and I stick by what I said. When the RCC is feeling eccumenical - they talk nice about other faiths but when push comes to shove -Boniface VIII's Unam Sanctam is still the cardinal rule. Believe me - I'm not anti-catholic. My church is very nearly catholic in many ways even though we are not. ANYHOW - If you would like to discuss this further - we can - is there a religious forum here? :)

PoliCon
08-31-2008, 10:19 PM
20th century - 1
19th century - 2
18th century - 3

Yay! you are either a child or an idiot. which is it?

PoliCon
08-31-2008, 10:21 PM
Yes but those 222 years span 3 centuries. Wow hey I'm still stuck in the 90s too. What grade are you in?

LibraryLady
08-31-2008, 10:35 PM
Wow hey I'm still stuck in the 90s too.

We will try not to hold your IQ against you.

wilbur
08-31-2008, 10:58 PM
Wow... gotta admit this is pretty funny: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4gkPXSDtGQ... or maybe terrifying...

Zathras
09-01-2008, 02:04 AM
Yes but those 222 years span 3 centuries. Wow hey I'm still stuck in the 90s too.

No Blinky, those 222 years span 2.22 centuries.

ConJinx
09-01-2008, 02:11 AM
Wow... gotta admit this is pretty funny: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4gkPXSDtGQ... or maybe terrifying...

Hey what the fuck. Christendtimes gave it 4 1/2 stars . Must be true.

Goldwater
09-01-2008, 08:38 AM
Wow... gotta admit this is pretty funny: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4gkPXSDtGQ... or maybe terrifying...

Being VP should be a part time job, like if I were VP I'd sit at home eating nachos, and then if the President died they could give me a call and I'd be on a bike or maybe drive (depends how I feel) to the White House.

What does the VP do day to day is what she says.

PoliCon
09-01-2008, 09:45 PM
Wow... gotta admit this is pretty funny: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4gkPXSDtGQ... or maybe terrifying...Look at her face - she was being silly.