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AmPat
03-07-2011, 09:17 PM
:mad:I can't believe this crap. :mad:

The U.S. military is too white and too male at the top and needs to change recruiting and promotion policies and lift its ban on women in combat, an independent report for Congress said Monday.

Seventy-seven percent of senior officers in the active-duty military are white, while only 8 percent are black, 5 percent are Hispanic and 16 percent are women, the report by an independent panel said, quoting data from September 2008.

One barrier that keeps women from the highest ranks is their inability to serve in combat units. Promotion and job opportunities have favored those with battlefield leadership credentials.

The report ordered by Congress in 2009 calls for greater diversity in the military's leadership so it will better reflect the racial, ethnic and gender mix in the armed forces and in American society.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110308/ap_on_re_us/us_military_diversity

The military is working, time to change it!:mad: Frickin liberal A-holes!

nightflight
03-07-2011, 10:02 PM
Do these people realize what combat actually is about?

Novaheart
03-07-2011, 10:29 PM
Seventy-seven percent of senior officers in the active-duty military are white


The demographics of the military is not an area of zero concern, for anyone. It wasn't too long ago that people were claiming that minorities were over represented in the army, thus the volunteer army combined with the economic condition of minority communities made for a problem.

What annoys me about a discussion of this issue, and an article such as this, is that the article didn't think it necessary to print the actual demographics of the US population relative to the claim of disproportion. It also didn't define "senior officer". If we're talking about officers who are age 50 and above, 77% white (officers) is pretty close to the population (75%). Blacks are only 8% of the officers compared to 12% of the general population, but the black population is also distributed differently from the white population across age ranges.

The article fails to note, that the "changing demographics" of the US population are coming and that there is no reason to believe that the military demographics won't change naturally with the population changes. The indicator of that wouldn't be the demographics of the senior officers, rather the junior officers. Of course, if a racial segment doesn't pursue these jobs, or if they fail to get educated or remain legally eligible for these jobs, you can hardly blame the military for that.

Funny how none of these article mention the percentage of the military that's American Indian, Eskimo, or Pacific Islander.

txradioguy
03-07-2011, 10:51 PM
The demographics of the military is not an area of zero concern, for anyone. It wasn't too long ago that people were claiming that minorities were over represented in the army, thus the volunteer army combined with the economic condition of minority communities made for a problem.

What annoys me about a discussion of this issue, and an article such as this, is that the article didn't think it necessary to print the actual demographics of the US population relative to the claim of disproportion. It also didn't define "senior officer". If we're talking about officers who are age 50 and above, 77% white (officers) is pretty close to the population (75%). Blacks are only 8% of the officers compared to 12% of the general population, but the black population is also distributed differently from the white population across age ranges.

The article fails to note, that the "changing demographics" of the US population are coming and that there is no reason to believe that the military demographics won't change naturally with the population changes. The indicator of that wouldn't be the demographics of the senior officers, rather the junior officers. Of course, if a racial segment doesn't pursue these jobs, or if they fail to get educated or remain legally eligible for these jobs, you can hardly blame the military for that.

Funny how none of these article mention the percentage of the military that's American Indian, Eskimo, or Pacific Islander.


Nova...write this down. I agree with you completely.

The only thing I'd clarify for you...is when they are talking "senior officer"...they aren't talking about age.

They are talking about rank. Which I believe the term "senior leader" starts IIRC at either Colonel or Brigadier General. Kinda liek they cpnsider you a "senior NCO" when you hit E-7.

Novaheart
03-07-2011, 11:14 PM
The only thing I'd clarify for you...is when they are talking "senior officer"...they aren't talking about age. .

Thanks, I was too lazy to look that up, so I used a ballpark age.

I wonder if they do ethnic breakdowns on casualties and fatalities. It would seem kind of distasteful, but it would be interesting.

txradioguy
03-07-2011, 11:20 PM
Thanks, I was too lazy to look that up, so I used a ballpark age.

I wonder if they do ethnic breakdowns on casualties and fatalities. It would seem kind of distasteful, but it would be interesting.


I'd have to do some digging. Might be a weekend project. I'd have to get through the first 20 pages of a Google search that would bring up every anti-War propaganda page in the world.

If I had to make a guess...I think yo'd find them breaking down along the same lines and the racial make up of the population.

Novaheart
03-07-2011, 11:48 PM
I'd have to do some digging. Might be a weekend project. I'd have to get through the first 20 pages of a Google search that would bring up every anti-War propaganda page in the world.

If I had to make a guess...I think yo'd find them breaking down along the same lines and the racial make up of the population.

Not current but interesting.

U.S. MILITARY CASUALTIES IN SOUTHEAST ASIA -
- DEATHS BY RACE AND PAY GRADE -
- REFLECTS POSTHUMOUS PROMOTIONS -

- AS OF MARCH 31, 1997 -

http://thewall-usa.com/summary.asp

Odysseus
03-08-2011, 10:25 AM
Do these people realize what combat actually is about?
Nope. They think that we are simply a heavily armed Peace Corps, that needs more diversity.

The demographics of the military is not an area of zero concern, for anyone. It wasn't too long ago that people were claiming that minorities were over represented in the army, thus the volunteer army combined with the economic condition of minority communities made for a problem.

What annoys me about a discussion of this issue, and an article such as this, is that the article didn't think it necessary to print the actual demographics of the US population relative to the claim of disproportion. It also didn't define "senior officer". If we're talking about officers who are age 50 and above, 77% white (officers) is pretty close to the population (75%). Blacks are only 8% of the officers compared to 12% of the general population, but the black population is also distributed differently from the white population across age ranges.

The article fails to note, that the "changing demographics" of the US population are coming and that there is no reason to believe that the military demographics won't change naturally with the population changes. The indicator of that wouldn't be the demographics of the senior officers, rather the junior officers. Of course, if a racial segment doesn't pursue these jobs, or if they fail to get educated or remain legally eligible for these jobs, you can hardly blame the military for that.

Funny how none of these article mention the percentage of the military that's American Indian, Eskimo, or Pacific Islander.

The demographics of the DOD are relatively easy to find. The DA (Department of the Army) G1 (General Staff officer in charge of Personnel) publishes the profile on their website. The officer corps breaks down as follows:


Commissioned Officers

Male

White 75.4%
Black 10.2%
Hispanic 5.6%
Asian 4.1%
Other 4.7%
% Male 82.8%
Total 62,624
Female

White 57.5%
Black 24.2%
Hispanic 6.3%
Asian 5.9%
Other 6.1%
% Female 17.2%
Total 12,995
Total Officers

White 72.3%
Black 12.6%
Hispanic 5.7%
Asian 4.4%
Other 4.9%
Total 100%
Total Officers 75,619

So, men are overrepresented, but men are also overrepresented in police, fire departments and other physically demanding, hazardous jobs. Black males are marginally underrepresented in the officer corps on the male side, but overrepresented among women, making up twice their demographic percentage. Latinos are underrepresented. Now, let's establish a few things that the article misses. First, the cut for becoming an officer is that you must have a bachelors degree. According to the US Census, the percentage of people holding four year degrees by race was:


Asian Americans 49.8%
Whites 30%,
Blacks 17.3%
Latinos 11.4%

Now, what is the total of the US population belonging to each ethnic group?


White 74.8% 229.8 million
Black 12.4% 38.1 million
Asian 4.5% 13.8 million
Latino Americans 15.8% 48.4


What percentage of Americans in each ethnic group qualify for officer selection?


White 74.8% 68.9 million
Black 12.4% 6.6 million
Asian 4.5% 0.62 million
Latino Americans 15.8% 5.6 million


So, what is the percentage of the recruiting pool for officers by race?

White 84.31%
Black 8.08%
Asian 0.76%
Latino 6.85%

By that count, Whites are underrepresented, Blacks, Asians and Latinos are overrepresented. Of course, pointing that out means that I flunk diversity training and will have to turn in my multicultural merit badge, but c'est la guerre (if we're still allowed to say that).

noonwitch
03-08-2011, 11:02 AM
I just like Am Pat's headline, "Too Many Honkies Leading the Military".

I always thought the term Honkie was funny, even when someone is yelling it at me. Even when it's followed by bitch.

Odysseus
03-08-2011, 11:58 AM
I just like Am Pat's headline, "Too Many Honkies Leading the Military".

I always thought the term Honkie was funny, even when someone is yelling it at me. Even when it's followed by bitch.

I prefer "Honkie-American," thank you very much. :D

Arroyo_Doble
03-08-2011, 12:10 PM
Good analysis. Seems it could be a jumping off point for a piece on military readiness and higher education in the United States.

I think you should have Hispanics in the underrepresented category, though. Not that it is that much.

Novaheart
03-08-2011, 12:25 PM
I prefer "Honkie-American," thank you very much. :D

I think that's offensive. I don't want to be lumped in with French and Italian Honkies. I prefer Anglo Dalriadan of Honkie Descent, or ADHD for short.

Novaheart
03-08-2011, 12:31 PM
Good analysis. Seems it could be a jumping off point for a piece on military readiness and higher education in the United States.

I think you should have Hispanics in the underrepresented category, though. Not that it is that much.

What is hispanic? Is Mel Martinez (Cuban Criollo) Hispanic? How about the blond haired Valley girl who was totally born in Oregon but has a Spanish last name? If George Prescott Bush has a kid named George McMannis Bush by a girl named Siobhan is that kid Hispanic?

Do you mean Hispanic or do you mean Latino or do you mean Mestizo?

Novaheart
03-08-2011, 12:35 PM
I'd have to do some digging. Might be a weekend project. I'd have to get through the first 20 pages of a Google search that would bring up every anti-War propaganda page in the world.

If I had to make a guess...I think yo'd find them breaking down along the same lines and the racial make up of the population.

I was reading a possibly unrelated article about this the other day. It said that these articles about ethnic concerns in the US military rarely make note that the military of other countries is not representative either, that it just doesn't happen that way. It pointed out that the Nigerian Army officers mostly come from the southern tribes while the enlisted mostly come from the northern tribes. Of course, you never see "white people" broken down into ethnicity in the US, or region, or tribe. We're just this monolithic group of people with blond hair, blue eyes, and white robes.

Odysseus
03-09-2011, 12:20 PM
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-WqH0MFV2KQQ/TXZ2UnOQ1rI/AAAAAAAACtE/djOu2qlY6AQ/s640/Battle%2BHer%2Bof%2Bthe%2BRepublic.jpg

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-hnk87kx2YeI/TXZ-G3dBkOI/AAAAAAAACtM/RKrmcDKtWqE/s400/arlington_cemetery.jpg
The Military Leadership Diversity Commission reports that women are under-represented here.


Good analysis. Seems it could be a jumping off point for a piece on military readiness and higher education in the United States.

I think you should have Hispanics in the underrepresented category, though. Not that it is that much.
Not really. They are 5.7% of the officer corps, but 5.6% of the recruiting pool. That's a slight overrepresentation, not that I'm counting beans or anything. Personally, I've never been that concerned with the ethnicity of the senior officer who is giving me an ass-chewing.


I think that's offensive. I don't want to be lumped in with French and Italian Honkies. I prefer Anglo Dalriadan of Honkie Descent, or ADHD for short.
Not bad. I'd call myself a Honkie-American Comprising Hebrew Origins and Orientation, but when I say that I'm a HA-CHOO, people think that I've sneezed, which may just be condescention towards my ethnicity, but I'm willing to let it go if I can get Kleenex out of it.

I was reading a possibly unrelated article about this the other day. It said that these articles about ethnic concerns in the US military rarely make note that the military of other countries is not representative either, that it just doesn't happen that way. It pointed out that the Nigerian Army officers mostly come from the southern tribes while the enlisted mostly come from the northern tribes. Of course, you never see "white people" broken down into ethnicity in the US, or region, or tribe. We're just this monolithic group of people with blond hair, blue eyes, and white robes.
White robes? I've been shorted! Where's my robe?

Most armies don't reflect the ethnic or social make up of their nations, unless they conscript the force, and even then, the officer corps tends to be reflective of different cultural factors For example, the Iraqi Army was almost exclusively led by Sunni officers, despite their being a minority, due to the nature of the dictatorship. The Syrian Army's senior leaders are Alawites, while the majority of the country are Sunni. Most European countries filled their officer ranks from the aristocracy until a few generations ago, and even now, a title will get you admitted into many of their service academies, even if it no longer guarantees graduation. The US, Russia, China and Israel are probably the closest to demographic parity, but in Russia and China, membership in the ruling parties is still the critical factor for acceptance to the military academies.

Arroyo_Doble
03-09-2011, 12:41 PM
Not really. They are 5.7% of the officer corps, but 5.6% of the recruiting pool.

Sorry. I got the numbers wrong.

Odysseus
03-09-2011, 01:39 PM
Sorry. I got the numbers wrong.

It happens.

The important thing is that, when 14 of us were murdered by a crazed jihadi, our diversity didn't suffer. :rolleyes:

AmPat
03-09-2011, 04:56 PM
I just like Am Pat's headline, "Too Many Honkies Leading the Military".

I always thought the term Honkie was funny, even when someone is yelling it at me. Even when it's followed by bitch.

Apparently PC has struck at CU.

megimoo
03-09-2011, 05:09 PM
Apparently PC has struck at CU.More and more so everyday!

Lager
03-09-2011, 07:15 PM
I wonder if they do ethnic breakdowns on casualties and fatalities. It would seem kind of distasteful, but it would be interesting.

At the start of the Iraqi war, the usual race mongers like Jackson, Rangel and even Chris Matthews were all over the airwaves claiming that this war, like Vietnam in their opinion, would simply be another case of America sending its minorities off die as cannon fodder while the rich caucasians stayed safely at home. Rangel even introduced a bill calling for reinstating the draft to make the military more representitive of society at large. When the casualty reports began to appear in American newspapers, they often included photos. Thankfully the ridiculous and absurd assumptions of these clowns were immediately discredited once and for all. The parties making these race baiting claims, quickly changed the subject and moved on to something else. As a matter of fact, they were wrong about Vietnam as well, where I believe 86 percent of casualties were white.

Novaheart
03-09-2011, 07:44 PM
At the start of the Iraqi war, the usual race mongers like Jackson, Rangel and even Chris Matthews were all over the airwaves claiming that this war, like Vietnam in their opinion, would simply be another case of America sending its minorities off die as cannon fodder while the rich caucasians stayed safely at home. Rangel even introduced a bill calling for reinstating the draft to make the military more representitive of society at large. When the casualty reports began to appear in American newspapers, they often included photos. Thankfully the ridiculous and absurd assumptions of these clowns were immediately discredited once and for all. The parties making these race baiting claims, quickly changed the subject and moved on to something else. As a matter of fact, they were wrong about Vietnam as well, where I believe 86 percent of casualties were white.

If one doesn't look at national numbers, I can see how regional perceptions might vary. Again, people tend to see the world as the view from their own window.

NJCardFan
03-09-2011, 09:58 PM
OK. The NBA is overrepresented by blacks and extremely under represented by Hispanics and Asians. The NFL too. This needs to be more diverse. :rolleyes:

Odysseus
03-10-2011, 09:19 AM
OK. The NBA is overrepresented by blacks and extremely under represented by Hispanics and Asians. The NFL too. This needs to be more diverse. :rolleyes:

Hey! What about the Jooooooooooooooooooooooos?

Calypso Jones
03-10-2011, 10:28 AM
oh hell. We need more muslims in the ranks and in positions of authority like maybe psychiatrists.

Molon Labe
03-10-2011, 10:35 AM
By that count, Whites are underrepresented, Blacks, Asians and Latinos are overrepresented. Of course, pointing that out means that I flunk diversity training and will have to turn in my multicultural merit badge, but c'est la guerre (if we're still allowed to say that).

You know there are a ton of Senior enlisted minorities in the Army. The majority of CSM's I've met are black.

I realize this is my observation....I don't have the numbers.

noonwitch
03-10-2011, 01:17 PM
Hey! What about the Jooooooooooooooooooooooos?


Don't you watch South Park? Jews can't play basketball.

Odysseus
03-10-2011, 04:18 PM
oh hell. We need more muslims in the ranks and in positions of authority like maybe psychiatrists.
Exactly. MAJ Hasan was clearly not acting out of religious conviction when he shouted Allah Akbar and shot up my post. All of us MAJs are just one PowerPoint slide away from flipping out, and our diversity is worth a few dead and wounded. :rolleyes:

You know there are a ton of Senior enlisted minorities in the Army. The majority of CSM's I've met are black.

I realize this is my observation....I don't have the numbers.
I do, but you have to download the spreadsheet and crunch the raw numbers to get the percentages. You can find it here. (http://open.dodlive.mil/data-gov/demographics/) When you do, you get the following for the entire military in grade E9:

65.13% E9 White %
24.32% E9 Black %
6.33% E9 Latino %
0.60% E9 Asian %

Now, where this gets interesting is when you adjust for the recruiting pool requirements (high school graduation, clean criminal record, etc.,), the numbers skew even more towards minorities. Just take high school completion, for example:

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2010/06/02/business/economy/economix-02graduationrates/economix-02graduationrates-custom1.jpg

White HS Grads 81%
Latino HS Grads 63.5%
Black HS Grads 61.5%
Asian HS Grads 91.4%

Percentage of High School Graduates for recruiting pool
White 73.60%
Black 9.26%
Latino 12.15%
Asian 4.99%

So, in the pay grade of E9, blacks are overrepresented by a factor of almost 3:1 compared to the recruiting pool. Everyone else is underrepresented.


Don't you watch South Park? Jews can't play basketball.

We can't? That explains so much of my high school days...