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CaughtintheMiddle1990
03-27-2011, 11:58 AM
Regardless of how you feel about their policies or presidency, which of our presidents do you feel came off as Presidential?That talked like a President, looked like one, had the charm, class, dignity or intelligence of a President, the good speaking skills and intellect of a good leader.

For me:
FDR/Ronald Reagan (tied as being the most Presidential ever. Both the most charming, witty, fatherly and reassuring men in office whether you hate them or love them)
John F. Kennedy
Calvin Coolidge
Thomas Jefferson
Benjamin Harrison
George Washington
Theordore Roosevelt
Richard Nixon
Woodrow Wilson
Grover Cleveland
Ulysses S. Grant

The rest, regardless of my opinions on them, didn't come off exactly as I'd expect a President to be. I chose the Presidents from each century of our country's history whom I feel were the most Presidential of their era.

KhrushchevsShoe
03-27-2011, 12:16 PM
Richard Nixon?

CaughtintheMiddle1990
03-27-2011, 12:18 PM
Richard Nixon?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TpCWHQ30Do8&feature=related

He wrote this speech himself. Note unlike Obama no "uh"s every five minutes.

Rockntractor
03-27-2011, 12:19 PM
Richard Nixon?

Just curious are you serious?:confused:

CaughtintheMiddle1990
03-27-2011, 12:25 PM
Just curious are you serious?:confused:

Yes. He was a great orator, very commanding speaker, and wrote many of his speeches either totally or mostly by himself. Very strong intellect as well.

KhrushchevsShoe
03-27-2011, 12:25 PM
Nixon was forced from office and hiis VP was a criminal.

I know CU has some insane theory as to how Nixon did nothing wrong but was instead chopped down by the rampant liberal hate machine. But still, you cant say a guy who resigned because he was about to be impeached was "presidential".

CaughtintheMiddle1990
03-27-2011, 12:27 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yb30L-NmKjo

Wilson was also a great speaker as well, very intelligent man, academic. Had the poise and charisma of a President. He also fervently believed in his causes, for which one can admire--Not his causes, but his passion.

Like I said, I prefer a President who doesn't says "uh", "uh", "um" every five minutes and has to read everything off a teleprompter or who bows down, literally, to other nation's leaders. I don't know why some find Obama presidential in his presentation of himself or his ideas.

Rockntractor
03-27-2011, 12:30 PM
But still, you cant say a guy who resigned because he was about to be impeached was "presidential".

You are the one that said it Nikita.

KhrushchevsShoe
03-27-2011, 12:31 PM
You are the one that said it Nikita.

I'm shocked you figured out the internet.

CaughtintheMiddle1990
03-27-2011, 12:31 PM
Nixon was forced from office and hiis VP was a criminal.

I know CU has some insane theory as to how Nixon did nothing wrong but was instead chopped down by the rampant liberal hate machine. But still, you cant say a guy who resigned because he was about to be impeached was "presidential".

For most of his Presidency--pretty much his entire first term--He was respected and supported by the majority of Americans. He was greatly popular until around the Spring/Summer 1973. It was better for the country (and of course for himself) that he resigned, as the business of government would've been standing still for 3, 4, 5 months of an impeachment trial, and this was a time when there were important matters like Vietnam and our relationship with the USSR and China, an economic downturn--were all at stake.

It's like judging Bill Clinton's entire Presidency by Monica Lewinsky, or Reagan's by Iran Contra, or Warren G. Harding by Teapot Dome. It's a small minded way of looking at things, IMO.

KhrushchevsShoe
03-27-2011, 12:33 PM
For most of his Presidency--pretty much his entire first term--He was respected and supported by the majority of Americans. He was greatly popular until around the Spring/Summer 1973. It was better for the country (and of course for himself) that he resigned, as the business of government would've been standing still for 3, 4, 5 months of an impeachment trial, and this was a time when there were important matters like Vietnam and our relationship with the USSR and China, an economic downturn--were all at stake.

It's like judging Bill Clinton's entire Presidency by Monica Lewinsky, or Reagan's by Iran Contra, or Warren G. Harding by Teapot Dome. It's a small minded way of looking at things, IMO.

That doesn't explain Spiro Agnew at all.

CaughtintheMiddle1990
03-27-2011, 12:33 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DxYaLLfPmc0

Rockntractor
03-27-2011, 12:34 PM
I'm shocked

That would take very little voltage!

KhrushchevsShoe
03-27-2011, 12:35 PM
Oh, this is just a thread to claim Obama says "uh" a lot.

No argument from me, but its hardly an interesting point of discussion.

Rockntractor
03-27-2011, 12:35 PM
That doesn't explain Spiro Agnew at all.

Who knew what the egg knew, Shoe!:confused:

SaintLouieWoman
03-27-2011, 12:35 PM
For most of his Presidency--pretty much his entire first term--He was respected and supported by the majority of Americans. He was greatly popular until around the Spring/Summer 1973. It was better for the country (and of course for himself) that he resigned, as the business of government would've been standing still for 3, 4, 5 months of an impeachment trial, and this was a time when there were important matters like Vietnam and our relationship with the USSR and China, an economic downturn--were all at stake.

It's like judging Bill Clinton's entire Presidency by Monica Lewinsky, or Reagan's by Iran Contra, or Warren G. Harding by Teapot Dome. It's a small minded way of looking at things, IMO.

Would you expect anything else of the Shoe? :rolleyes:

djones520
03-27-2011, 12:35 PM
You are the one that said it Nikita.

He was questioning CITM's selection of him, not putting him out there.

marv
03-27-2011, 12:36 PM
Please define Most Presidential. What specific qualities apply?

CaughtintheMiddle1990
03-27-2011, 12:42 PM
That doesn't explain Spiro Agnew at all.

Spiro Agnew was a dolt who even Nixon didn't like. He looked down on Agnew as a dope, basically, like most of the GOP did--In fact, looking back, had Agnew himself not resigned, it's likely that impeachment wouldn't have been as certain, as no one, especially the GOP, relished the prospect of a President Agnew.

Spiro Agnew was only chosen in 1968 to garner votes in key areas, not because of any real friendship or affection between the two men. Nixon had strongly considered replacing Agnew for the 1972 election. In replacing Agnew in 1973, if Nixon had his way, there would've been a President John Connally, President Nelson Rockefeller, or President Ronald Reagan being inaugurated on August 9th 1974. Connally & Rockefeller were his key choices to replace Agnew.

Connally was Nixon's first choice, and the man he wanted to run in 1976 (regardless of Watergate) to be his political successor. However, Connally had some questionable things in his own life, which given Nixon's political weakness by the end of 1973 meant that the nominating process for Connally would be long and difficult, and so there went his first and most optimal choice.

Rockefeller was Nixon's second choice as he was a capable man with a proven track record, but he was ultimately too liberal for both Nixon and the GOP, and he wouldn't have the support of the conservative wing of the GOP in nominating him. It's part of the reason why Ford himself ditched Rockefeller in favor of the more moderate Dole in the election of 1976.

You have to remember that in the 1970s, a President's VP was looked upon as his potential political heir--Not because of resignation, but simply because that was the way it was, since Truman. FDR died; Truman ran for President. Ike left office, his VP Nixon ran for President; JFK died; LBJ ran for President. This has continued in some cases--GHW Bush running as the "heir" of Reagan in 1988, Gore running as Clinton's successor in 2000, etc.

Ronald Reagan was the favorite of the GOP (by vote--Nixon asked different groups to vote on who they would want) to replace Agnew, but Ford was chosen ultimately because he was most liked by Congress overall and thus his succesful nomination by Congress would be the most likely of all the prospective candidates.

Picking Ford ironically sealed Nixon's fate. Nixon had felt with Ford as his VP, he wouldn't be impeached, or if impeached, his supporters in the Republican party would save him from conviction, as no one would want dumb, bland Ford as President. He miscalculated, as Ford was a good man and never stepped on anyone's toes and was generally well liked by both the Liberal and Conservative wings of the GOP.

You have to remember that as late as July 1974, it seemed, and Nixon felt (due to the support of 12 Republican Senators) that his Presidency would survive, and if not for the Smoking Gun tape's release, his Presidency would have survived, albeit in a weakened state. Only the Smoking Gun tape's release doomed his presidency, as the 12 senators who had pledged to vote AGAINST impeachment (including Barry Goldwater) privately met Nixon and told him they were now forced to vote for impeachment.

Rockntractor
03-27-2011, 12:43 PM
He was questioning CITM's selection of him, not putting him out there.

Awe, I see the question mark now.

CueSi
03-27-2011, 01:52 PM
Within my own lifetime? Reagan, hands down. A witty, fatherly, 'happy warrior', whom I would not hesitate to have as a professor, boss, or in-law. The kind that would chide you for being a dumbass, but you'd still feel good about it. Four words still make me smile, "There you go again."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X39dGQmBEww&

All around?

Real Presidents: T.R , Calvin Coolidge, Truman.

Fictional : the one from Independence Day. President Andrew Whitmore(?). . . All the hot of Kennedy, the 'happy warrior' of Reagan.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUdB8gCMcXI

~QC

Articulate_Ape
03-27-2011, 04:07 PM
Fictional : the one from Independence Day. President Andrew Whitmore(?). . . All the hot of Kennedy, the 'happy warrior' of Reagan.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUdB8gCMcXI

~QC


I'm sitting here try to picture what our current president would say were our nation and/or planet to face a kinetic military action conducted by immigrants from outer space.

CueSi
03-27-2011, 05:29 PM
I'm sitting here try to picture what our current president would say were our nation and/or planet to face a kinetic military action conducted by immigrants from outer space.

Don't know, I think we'd be obliterated by that point. :p

~QC

fettpett
03-27-2011, 06:07 PM
I'm sitting here try to picture what our current president would say were our nation and/or planet to face a kinetic military action conducted by immigrants from outer space.

the dumbass would be cowering under the desk in the Oval Office shortly after the helicopters got blown up and end up being blown up by the City-ship that destroyed DC....then the human race would end up enslaved/extinct because Will Smith and Jeff Goldbloom wouldn't be able to infect the aliens computers with a virus and a nuke it

AmPat
03-27-2011, 06:33 PM
Nixon was forced from office and hiis VP was a criminal.

I know CU has some insane theory as to how Nixon did nothing wrong but was instead chopped down by the rampant liberal hate machine. But still, you cant say a guy who resigned because he was about to be impeached was "presidential".

Nixon were president today with the antics of the last few DIMoRATS in the office, his "crimes" would have been akin to stealing candy from the penny jar as a child. Today's DIMoRATS are criminal in the open. If conservatives controlled the large media the way liberals do, there would never be a DIMoRAT elected to national office within a few years.

Lager
03-27-2011, 08:05 PM
I'm surprised Ike isn't on your list.

Odysseus
03-27-2011, 08:24 PM
If we define being "presidential" as exuding leadership, that is, looking like you're in command and confident, then the gold standard would have to be George Washington. After that, Reagan is second. Then, it's Teddy Roosevelt, FDR, JFK, Lincoln, Jefferson, Madison, Eisenhower, Cleveland and Garfield.

The least presidential is Obama, followed by Clinton and then Carter.

fettpett
03-27-2011, 09:30 PM
If we define being "presidential" as exuding leadership, that is, looking like you're in command and confident, then the gold standard would have to be George Washington. After that, Reagan is second. Then, it's Teddy Roosevelt, FDR, JFK, Lincoln, Jefferson, Madison, Eisenhower, Cleveland and Garfield.

The least presidential is Obama, followed by Clinton and then Carter.

my only quibble with your list is Garfield....he was only in office for 6 months before dying and spent 3 of those on his death bed.

I would say that Chester Arthur really stood up and put the Stalwart's in their place after he became Pres and stayed his own man

Odysseus
03-27-2011, 11:06 PM
my only quibble with your list is Garfield....he was only in office for 6 months before dying and spent 3 of those on his death bed.

I would say that Chester Arthur really stood up and put the Stalwart's in their place after he became Pres and stayed his own man

Agreed. My bad. I actually meant Arthur.

NJCardFan
03-28-2011, 12:08 AM
Nixon was forced from office and hiis VP was a criminal.

I know CU has some insane theory as to how Nixon did nothing wrong but was instead chopped down by the rampant liberal hate machine. But still, you cant say a guy who resigned because he was about to be impeached was "presidential".

And your thoughts on Clinton would be...

Odysseus
03-28-2011, 03:59 PM
And your thoughts on Clinton would be...

Hypocritical and driven by his ideology, like all of his thoughts.

Arroyo_Doble
03-28-2011, 04:02 PM
James K. Polk

Adam Wood
03-28-2011, 05:27 PM
As noted by others, we have to have a bit of a definition of "Presidential" to go with here.

If we mean poised, graceful, well-spoken, etc., then Reagan tops the list, followed by FDR and then JFK. But, we have a hard time comparing these guys to, say, Calvin Coolidge or Teddy Roosevelt or Benjamin Harrison because the first significant actual video/film footage that we have of Presidents starts with FDR. We don't really know exactly how well-spoken Benjamin Harrison was. We know how he wrote, and we know what he said, but we don't how he spoke. We have certain anecdotal clues, such as that Thomas Jefferson, despite his wonderful writing, was absolutely petrified of public speaking, even to what was then a fairly small Congress. But for most Presidents before FDR, we have only very small clips of grainy, posed film shots and very little actual voice recordings. Nobody alive today knows what Grover Cleavland's voice sounded like, but pretty much every American can immediately recognize FDR's voice. So it makes for a bit of a tough comparison for the earlier Presidents.

If we mean something more like what one expects from a CEO, how they comported business in the White House, then probably the list is Reagan, then W, then Ike, then probably 41, and then it sort of turns into a tie between FDR, TR, JFK, and several others. These folks were ever-punctual, demanded proper dress at all times while working (even on Saturdays in the case of Reagan), and had a very deliberate "get X done" attitude in which they kept themselves from meddling directly but delegated properly.

Then I suppose one could define "Presidential" as just taking hold of the Presidency and "using it" "properly." That gets kinda tricky. I would say that probably Washington tops the list, since he got to set the benchmark. Depending upon whether you look at policies or leadership appearance, FDR could come in second there for his leadership and inspiration during the Depression and the war, but from a policy standpoint, and from doing things like court-packing, he sinks way down the list very quickly. If you think that the proper way to use the Presidency is to basically not use it at all, then Calvin Coolidge probably comes in at #2, and then I think maybe William McKinley or perhaps Herbert Hoover.

Odysseus
03-28-2011, 06:22 PM
As noted by others, we have to have a bit of a definition of "Presidential" to go with here.

If we mean poised, graceful, well-spoken, etc., then Reagan tops the list, followed by FDR and then JFK. But, we have a hard time comparing these guys to, say, Calvin Coolidge or Teddy Roosevelt or Benjamin Harrison because the first significant actual video/film footage that we have of Presidents starts with FDR. We don't really know exactly how well-spoken Benjamin Harrison was. We know how he wrote, and we know what he said, but we don't how he spoke. We have certain anecdotal clues, such as that Thomas Jefferson, despite his wonderful writing, was absolutely petrified of public speaking, even to what was then a fairly small Congress. But for most Presidents before FDR, we have only very small clips of grainy, posed film shots and very little actual voice recordings. Nobody alive today knows what Grover Cleavland's voice sounded like, but pretty much every American can immediately recognize FDR's voice. So it makes for a bit of a tough comparison for the earlier Presidents.

If we mean something more like what one expects from a CEO, how they comported business in the White House, then probably the list is Reagan, then W, then Ike, then probably 41, and then it sort of turns into a tie between FDR, TR, JFK, and several others. These folks were ever-punctual, demanded proper dress at all times while working (even on Saturdays in the case of Reagan), and had a very deliberate "get X done" attitude in which they kept themselves from meddling directly but delegated properly.

Then I suppose one could define "Presidential" as just taking hold of the Presidency and "using it" "properly." That gets kinda tricky. I would say that probably Washington tops the list, since he got to set the benchmark. Depending upon whether you look at policies or leadership appearance, FDR could come in second there for his leadership and inspiration during the Depression and the war, but from a policy standpoint, and from doing things like court-packing, he sinks way down the list very quickly. If you think that the proper way to use the Presidency is to basically not use it at all, then Calvin Coolidge probably comes in at #2, and then I think maybe William McKinley or perhaps Herbert Hoover.

While I consider Reagan the second greatest president, and the greatest in my lifetime, I have to argue in favor of George Washington. Reagan restored the dignity and authority of the office after it had been trashed by scandal (Nixon) and ineptitude (Carter), but that dignity and authority had been established by Washington, who set the standard that Reagan followed, and who put most of the mechanisms in place that we consider part of the executive branch. Washington's public demeanor and dignity were well-documented, and his heroic stature among the founding generation (a generation of heroic stature in its own right) was considered beyond dispute. Washington was the only president ever elected unanimously by the Electoral College, and certainly will be the only one to have been unanimously twice. Washington was an excellent administrator who established the first cabinet, and filled it with men of character and ability. His contemporaries described him as "systematic, orderly, energetic, solicitous of the opinion of others but decisive, intent upon general goals and the consistency of particular actions with them."

In terms of his personal carriage and demeanor, see below:


President George Washington: Physical Description
About the President George Washington and his physical description including height and weight.

His Person: Washington's commanding appearance always inspired trust and admiration from those around him; as much as any other President, he had the elusive quality of charisma. When he was 27, a fellow member of the Virginia House of Burgesses described him as "straight as an Indian, measuring 6'2" in his stockings and weighing 175 1bs." This estimate may have been conservative: After Washington's death, his private secretary claimed that he measured the body and found it to be 6' 3 1/2" tall. Whatever his actual height, Washington was always considered a giant, and his body remained sinewy and strong, never exceeding 200 1bs. in weight. His massive frame supported enormous hands that required specially-made gloves and feet that called for size 13 boots. His cool, steady, blue-gray eyes, recalling in Emerson's phrase, "an ox gazing out of a pasture," furthered the impression of massive strength. An attack of smallpox when he was 18 had left his skin pockmarked, but it also left him immune to the disease that later ravaged his Continental Army. By age 57, Washington had lost nearly all his teeth, and he began a long and frustrating search for a pair of dentures that would fit him properly. The wooden and ivory false teeth that he finally selected were so unsatisfactory that he kept his lips tightly compressed during his later years, and his jaw developed that awkward, unnatural set that appears in most of his portraits. His dentures also left Washington with such deeply sunken cheeks that Gilbert Stuart, when painting his most famous likeness of the great man, stuffed his subject's cheeks with cotton; a close examination of this portrait reveals the artificial bulge. The natural color of Washington's hair was sandy brown, but he wore it powdered white and further obscured under a fashionable white wig. In 1760, Capt. George Mercer noted that in conversation Washington "looks you full in the face, is deliberate, deferential and engaging. His movements and gestures are graceful, his walk majestic, and he is a splendid horseman." But beneath this cool and polished exterior, Washington hid a furious temper. On one occasion as commander-in-chief, he became so exasperated at the quarreling of drunken soldiers in front of his headquarters, that he forgot the dignity of a general, rushed out, and knocked several of the brawlers cold with his own massive fists. When provoked, the "father of our country" could let loose a torrent of curses that would make even a modern President blush. Washington's private secretary once commented that the most dreaded experience in his life was hearing the general swear.

1975 - 1981 by David Wallechinsky & Irving Wallace
Reproduced with permission from "The People's Almanac" series of books.
All rights reserved.

Finally, the most presidential thing about Washington is that he did not seek the office, but had it thrust upon him. Every other man who held the office campaigned for it. Washington didn't, but only acquiesced to serve because of his sense of duty, and refused a third term despite public acclaim. And, of course, as anyone who is familiar with the Newburgh plot knows, he refused a crown.

Washington was the first and the best.