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megimoo
03-30-2011, 12:11 AM
The U.S. Army has officially threatened military chaplains they must either embrace the new openly homosexual military, resign from service, or face court-martial for their "religious, conscience" objections.

The Pray In Jesus Name Project has obtained leaked copies (unintended for media disclosure) of a private briefing given to chaplains, threatening them with court-martial unless they compromise their Christian message. Christian Chaplains who speak out against homosexual sin can be accused of "harassment" by homosexuals and face disciplinary action simply for voicing their religious views outside the "context" of their religious ministry.
.snip
ARMY: "You remain obligated to follow orders that involve interaction with others who are homosexual even if an unwillingness to do so is based on strong, sincerely held moral or religious beliefs. As expressed in the Manual for Courts-Martial regarding a Soldier's obligation to obey orders: 'the dictates of a person's conscience, religion, or personal philosophy cannot justify or excuse the disobedience of an otherwise lawful order.'"

[Chaps' Interpretation: the phrase 'lawful order' will mean ANYTHING ANTI-CHRISTIAN COMMANDERS WISH and judges will back up the Commander, not the Chaplain. I know from personal experience, when a Navy Judge said my Navy Commander could punish me, a chaplain, for disobeying "lawful orders" because I was quote "worshiping in public."]

Bottom Line: Army Chaplains will now be punished at court-martial for "disobedience" of "lawful orders" if they dare to express their religious views about homsexual sin outside of Sunday chapel.

MILITARY CHAPLAINS FACE CHARGES OF "HATE SPEECH"

http://catholiccitizens.org/press/pressview.asp?c=52791

txradioguy
03-30-2011, 01:58 AM
No wonder the Chief of Chaplains...MG Carver is retiring.

noonwitch
03-30-2011, 08:28 AM
This is where the Army has to be really clear with it's chaplains: is this a rule that says that they cannot speak against gays in their capacity as Army chaplains? I have no problem with that.

I don't think the Army has the right to tell them what to preach or counsel in civilian churches when they are on their own time and out of uniform.

txradioguy
03-30-2011, 08:48 AM
This is where the Army has to be really clear with it's chaplains: is this a rule that says that they cannot speak against gays in their capacity as Army chaplains? I have no problem with that.

I don't think the Army has the right to tell them what to preach or counsel in civilian churches when they are on their own time and out of uniform.


The Army has no right to tell a Chaplain to do anything that goes against his beliefs.

I mean come on we bend over backwards to provide Imam's and appoint Chaplains to oversee and cater to Pagan's Witches etc yet a Christian Chaplain is told that he/she has to modify his or her faith?

That's bullshit.

fettpett
03-30-2011, 09:12 AM
You'll probably see a lot of retirements due to this

eagleexpress
03-30-2011, 09:22 AM
You'll probably see a lot of retirements due to this

Just like the Clinton years put a Democrat as POTUS and the military seems to get smaller

djones520
03-30-2011, 09:30 AM
Directly from the training we have been provided.


-Free exercise of religion and duty to care for all remains unchanged.

- In the context of their religious ministry, chaplains are not required to take actions inconsistent with their religious beliefs. Existing policy regarding chaplains' free exercise of religion and duty to care for all continues to apply.

- If a chaplain is unable to reconcile serving with or caring for gay, lesbian, and bisexual Service members with his or her faith, the chaplain may request that the relevant edorsing agency withdraw its ecclesiastical endorsement for him or her. This would trigger an administrative seperation under DoDI 1304.28, Guidance for the Appointment of Chaplains for the Military Departments.

What to take from that? Nothing has changed. They are still required to provide care for ANYONE who needs it, just like before. If the Chaplain still cannot reconcile with that, then he can take steps to remove himself from the service. And Chaplains are really the only ones who have that option.

megimoo
03-30-2011, 09:32 AM
The Army has no right to tell a Chaplain to do anything that goes against his beliefs.

I mean come on we bend over backwards to provide Imam's and appoint Chaplains to oversee and cater to Pagan's Witches etc yet a Christian Chaplain is told that he/she has to modify his or her faith?

That's bullshit.The military is deep into PC these days.Mullen and the rest of the JCS have been told either kiss the golden calf of PC's Ass or resign and retire.PC is so fair and tolerant to everyone except Christians and Jews !They're afraid of the Muslims rebelling so they treat them with great deference. The gays they give a free pass to because they have paid their way into the Obama PC club with political contributions .Repeal of DaDt was Obama paying off the queer lobby for all of their campaign loot!

Phillygirl
03-30-2011, 10:26 AM
Directly from the training we have been provided.



What to take from that? Nothing has changed. They are still required to provide care for ANYONE who needs it, just like before. If the Chaplain still cannot reconcile with that, then he can take steps to remove himself from the service. And Chaplains are really the only ones who have that option.

I don't have a problem with this policy. I find it hard to believe that a person of faith would be unable to care for a member of the services simply because that member is gay. I'm hard pressed to think of a reason why a chaplain in the armed services would feel a need to preach about homosexuality as part of his day to day dties. It would seem that there are a lot more important issues that members would need from a spiritual adviser, especially in these times of wars, than whether or not "God hates fags".

txradioguy
03-30-2011, 12:40 PM
The military is deep into PC these days.Mullen and the rest of the JCS have been told either kiss the golden calf of PC's Ass or resign and retire.PC is so fair and tolerant to everyone except Christians and Jews !They're afraid of the Muslims rebelling so they treat them with great deference. The gays they give a free pass to because they have paid their way into the Obama PC club with political contributions .Repeal of DaDt was Obama paying off the queer lobby for all of their campaign loot!

This is like the Clinton years all over again.

txradioguy
03-30-2011, 12:43 PM
I don't have a problem with this policy. I find it hard to believe that a person of faith would be unable to care for a member of the services simply because that member is gay. I'm hard pressed to think of a reason why a chaplain in the armed services would feel a need to preach about homosexuality as part of his day to day dties. It would seem that there are a lot more important issues that members would need from a spiritual adviser, especially in these times of wars, than whether or not "God hates fags".

Kinda find it hard to believe you'd think that...considering in most religions I know of, homosexuality is considered a sin. Even Islam.

How is a military Chaplain supposed to spiritually advice someone about something that they themselves don't believe in and think is a sin? You're asking them to be hypocrites.

So what the Pentagon is telling these men and women of the cloth to do goes against the tenets of their faith.

Why are you ok with that?

djones520
03-30-2011, 12:47 PM
Kinda find it hard to believe you'd think that...considering in most religions I know of, homosexuality is considered a sin. Even Islam.

How is a military Chaplain supposed to spiritually advice someone about something that they themselves don't believe in and think is a sin? You're asking them to be hypocrites.

So what the Pentagon is telling these men and women of the cloth to do goes against the tenets of their faith.

Why are you ok with that?

The Pentagon is also offering them an out. As I said already, they are about the only ones who get that out.

txradioguy
03-30-2011, 01:00 PM
The Pentagon is also offering them an out. As I said already, they are about the only ones who get that out.

That will work until the first allegation against a Chaplain for allegedly expressing or counseling anti-gay sentiments hits the papers.

C'mon Jones...you've been doing this long enough to know how these regulations get used to either further an agenda or as a tool for revenge against a perfectly good service member.

And as you also know...all that needs to be made true or not is the allegation to ruin a career.

DADT guidelines won't be any different.

The only "out" Chaplains will take is the exit door to the service.

Novaheart
03-30-2011, 01:45 PM
The Army has no right to tell a Chaplain to do anything that goes against his beliefs.

I mean come on we bend over backwards to provide Imam's and appoint Chaplains to oversee and cater to Pagan's Witches etc yet a Christian Chaplain is told that he/she has to modify his or her faith?

That's bullshit.

Are those Imams allowed in their capacity as employees of the US Government and military officers in service to their country to speak freely as Islamic imams and to support terrorism and Islamic militancy in the world?

Some (being charitable) Moslems of the highest rank in their religion consider jihad and war on the west to be an article of faith. Are they allowed to rant and rail in a US Army pseudo-mosque as we see the ones in Iran doing on video?

Novaheart
03-30-2011, 01:49 PM
The military is deep into PC these days.Mullen and the rest of the JCS have been told either kiss the golden calf of PC's Ass or resign and retire.PC is so fair and tolerant to everyone except Christians and Jews !They're afraid of the Muslims rebelling so they treat them with great deference. The gays they give a free pass to because they have paid their way into the Obama PC club with political contributions .Repeal of DaDt was Obama paying off the queer lobby for all of their campaign loot!

Load of crap. Political correctness has nothing to do with it. The military walks a fine line employing religious leaders and instructors as it is. It's done as a convenience not a necessity. The chaplains are there to make people feel better. They get paid for their service. If they want to preach hate and discontent, they can do it offbase like the megachurches outside the Air Force Academy.

Novaheart
03-30-2011, 01:51 PM
The only "out" Chaplains will take is the exit door to the service.

People who can't work with others need to GTFO. No great loss. The longer one lives, the more one realizes that no one is irreplaceable.

txradioguy
03-30-2011, 02:01 PM
Are those Imams allowed in their capacity as employees of the US Government and military officers in service to their country to speak freely as Islamic imams and to support terrorism and Islamic militancy in the world?

Some (being charitable) Moslems of the highest rank in their religion consider jihad and war on the west to be an article of faith. Are they allowed to rant and rail in a US Army pseudo-mosque as we see the ones in Iran doing on video?

I'd ask one. But I'd get written up for an EO complaint.

Or maybe we can ask the people that turned a blind eye to a Jihadi ranting doctor who's now on trial for killing 13 of his fellow soldiers.

You're asking me questions that I would get in serious trouble for even attempting to ask an Imam.

txradioguy
03-30-2011, 02:03 PM
People who can't work with others need to GTFO. No great loss. The longer one lives, the more one realizes that no one is irreplaceable.

Tell that to the people that counted on that Chaplain for spiritual guidance.

txradioguy
03-30-2011, 02:05 PM
Load of crap. Political correctness has nothing to do with it. The military walks a fine line employing religious leaders and instructors as it is. It's done as a convenience not a necessity. The chaplains are there to make people feel better. They get paid for their service. If they want to preach hate and discontent, they can do it offbase like the megachurches outside the Air Force Academy.

Thank you for putting your full and complete cluelessness...sprinkled with a touch of pure dumb ass on display.


You know more know or care about what services Chaplains provide to military members than I do about astrophysics.

lacarnut
03-30-2011, 03:11 PM
Thank you for putting your full and complete cluelessness...sprinkled with a touch of pure dumb ass on display.


You know more know or care about what services Chaplains provide to military members than I do about astrophysics.

Fags do not belong in the military. Period. The overwhelming number of soldiers past (including yours truly) and present feel that way. Only dumb shits like Nova, Phillygirl and others that have never been in the military think that life and social structure is comparable to the private sector. Protestant Chaplains should be able to preach what is in the Bible and if that offends a queer, tough shit. Let the little pussies resign instead of a Chaplain. BTW, no one twist your arm to go to church. It is voluntary; not mandatory for the clueless.

txradioguy
03-30-2011, 03:19 PM
Fags do not belong in the military. Period. The overwhelming number of soldiers past (including yours truly) and present feel that way. Only dumb shits like Nova, Phillygirl and others that have never been in the military think that life and social structure is comparable to the private sector. Protestant Chaplains should be able to preach what is in the Bible and if that offends a queer, tough shit. Let the little pussies resign instead of a Chaplain. BTW, no one twist your arm to go to church. It is voluntary; not mandatory for the clueless.

Just another case of the minority on a group forcing their will on the majority.

lacarnut
03-30-2011, 03:29 PM
Just another case of the minority on a group forcing their will on the majority.

I went to church maybe once or twice in the 2 years I was in the service. Obama and his faggot friends are forcing this crap down the throats of the majority. A couple of these queer freaks will get together and tar and feather a Chaplin they do not like because he does not kiss their ass. Then the Chaplin gets booted because it is a case of less resistance opposed to the new special and privileged class. Stupidity knows no bounds when the unknowing like Nova and Phillygirl espouse their crap.

txradioguy
03-30-2011, 03:31 PM
I went to church maybe once or twice in the 2 years I was in the service. Obama and his faggot friends are forcing this crap down the throats of the majority. A couple of these queer freaks will get together and tar and feather a Chaplin they do not like because he does not kiss their ass. Then the Chaplin gets booted because it is a case of less resistance opposed to the new special and privileged class. Stupidity knows no bounds when the unknowing like Nova and Phillygirl espouse their crap.

Bingo.

Phillygirl
03-30-2011, 04:48 PM
Kinda find it hard to believe you'd think that...considering in most religions I know of, homosexuality is considered a sin. Even Islam.

How is a military Chaplain supposed to spiritually advice someone about something that they themselves don't believe in and think is a sin? You're asking them to be hypocrites.

So what the Pentagon is telling these men and women of the cloth to do goes against the tenets of their faith.

Why are you ok with that?
No. I'm asking them not to preach against homosexuality while in the armed services. If the gay guy wants to be told that it's not a sin, then he should do that on his own time, with his own chaplain. The chaplain that has a problem with homosexuals being considered sinners should simply say, I can't help you with that.

The chaplain is not God and service members aren't entitled to have their every need met by their taxpayer provider spiritual guru.

lacarnut
03-30-2011, 07:02 PM
No. I'm asking them not to preach against homosexuality while in the armed services. If the gay guy wants to be told that it's not a sin, then he should do that on his own time, with his own chaplain. The chaplain that has a problem with homosexuals being considered sinners should simply say, I can't help you with that.

The chaplain is not God and service members aren't entitled to have their every need met by their taxpayer provider spiritual guru.

You still do not get it. Military courts and civilian courts are miles and miles apart. I have seen soldiers lose their stripes because the company commander does not like them or they want to give it to another person. I had to take a friend to the stockade because he had 3 article 15 for missing bed check. The company commander's jeep driver had 3 or 4 and had taken the jeep off post without authorization plus got in a fight and pulled a knife. He got a slap on the wrist but no stockade time.

Military courts do not work like anything you could imagine. A Chaplin who preaches against homosexuality will get his ass canned because the military does not want the hassle of bad publicity that will ensue, and a top officer having to appear before a congressional hearing to listen to some anti-military pricks dress them down. The fags will have the upper hand.

Phillygirl
03-30-2011, 07:05 PM
You still do not get it. Military courts and civilian courts are miles and miles apart. I have seen soldiers lose their stripes because the company commander does not like them or they want to give it to another person. I had to take a friend to the stockade because he had 3 article 15 for missing bed check. The company commander's jeep driver had 3 or 4 and had taken the jeep off post without authorization plus got in a fight and pulled a knife. He got a slap on the wrist but no stockade time.

Military courts do not work like anything you could imagine. A Chaplin who preaches against homosexuality will get his ass canned because the military does not want the hassle of bad publicity that will ensue, and a top officer having to appear before a congressional hearing to listen to some anti-military pricks dress them down. The fags will have the upper hand.

The fags will have the upper hand because Father Phelps can't preach that God hates fags while in military gear?

Ummm, okay.You have a really really good point. You are correct.

lacarnut
03-30-2011, 07:14 PM
The fags will have the upper hand because Father Phelps can't preach that God hates fags while in military gear?

Ummm, okay.You have a really really good point. You are correct.

God does not hate fags. Only stupid people like you can not tell the difference between God's teaching and a lunatic like Phelps.

It is not that I am so correct, you are so totally wrong because you do not know a thing about military life.

Novaheart
03-30-2011, 07:20 PM
A Chaplin who preaches against homosexuality will get his ass canned because the military does not want the hassle of bad publicity that will ensue,......

I can't imagine why a chaplain would preach against homosexuality. The heterosexuals aren't practicing or considering being gay, and the gay people aren't going to be straight because some BWAB say it's a sin.

In 52 years and attending three mainstream denominations I have never even heard the word "homosexual" in a sermon. How is it that these presumably nondenominational preachers can't manage to do their job without preaching bigotry?

Novaheart
03-30-2011, 07:27 PM
The fags will have the upper hand because Father Phelps can't preach that God hates fags while in military gear?

Ummm, okay.You have a really really good point. You are correct.

I can't help but think that his type of sentiment is indeed widely held. I also can't help think that it's a lot like when women entered into formerly male occupations like being a truck driver. It had to be a hit to the man who fancied himself some kind of diesel steel cowboy, heir to the macho and implied virility of the disappearing cowboy or pioneer, to see a woman pull the truck in the depot and back it perfectly (in case you didn't know this, women are master trailer backers) to the loading dock in pink sneakers and a Strawberry Shortcake t-shirt.

Well gee, if fags can be soldiers (in combat no less), and women can be pilots, and negroes take up most of the slots in the NFL and now GOLF, then isn't anything reserved for heterosexual white males?

Ice hockey, it's only a matter of time.

lacarnut
03-30-2011, 07:39 PM
I can't imagine why a chaplain would preach against homosexuality. The heterosexuals aren't practicing or considering being gay, and the gay people aren't going to be straight because some BWAB say it's a sin.

In 52 years and attending three mainstream denominations I have never even heard the word "homosexual" in a sermon. How is it that these presumably nondenominational preachers can't manage to do their job without preaching bigotry?

You been going to wrong churches then cause I have. Homosexuality is a sin. You may not like it but stating that the written word is bigotry shows that either your lack of comprehension or your stupidity.

Phillygirl
03-30-2011, 07:43 PM
I can't help but think that his type of sentiment is indeed widely held. I also can't help think that it's a lot like when women entered into formerly male occupations like being a truck driver. It had to be a hit to the man who fancied himself some kind of diesel steel cowboy, heir to the macho and implied virility of the disappearing cowboy or pioneer, to see a woman pull the truck in the depot and back it perfectly (in case you didn't know this, women are master trailer backers) to the loading dock in pink sneakers and a Strawberry Shortcake t-shirt.

Well gee, if fags can be soldiers (in combat no less), and women can be pilots, and negroes take up most of the slots in the NFL and now GOLF, then isn't anything reserved for heterosexual white males?

Ice hockey, it's only a matter of time.

Pretty soon those queers will be allowed to drive fancy schmancy sports cars in louisiana. Is there no end to the madness?

lacarnut
03-30-2011, 07:48 PM
Pretty soon those queers will be allowed to drive fancy schmancy sports cars in louisiana. Is there no end to the madness?

They are already driving them in Philly which includes Dykes also.

CueSi
03-30-2011, 07:49 PM
I can't help but think that his type of sentiment is indeed widely held. I also can't help think that it's a lot like when women entered into formerly male occupations like being a truck driver. It had to be a hit to the man who fancied himself some kind of diesel steel cowboy, heir to the macho and implied virility of the disappearing cowboy or pioneer, to see a woman pull the truck in the depot and back it perfectly (in case you didn't know this, women are master trailer backers) to the loading dock in pink sneakers and a Strawberry Shortcake t-shirt.

Well gee, if fags can be soldiers (in combat no less), and women can be pilots, and negroes take up most of the slots in the NFL and now GOLF, then isn't anything reserved for heterosexual white males?

Ice hockey, it's only a matter of time.

They're already here, Nova. :) (http://www.bvonsports.com/2010/04/13/evander-kane-knocks-out-opponent/) We just don't take over because it's too fucking cold. :p And you can kill yourself driving a racecar... So, there's that.

~QC

CueSi
03-30-2011, 07:52 PM
Pretty soon those queers will be allowed to drive fancy schmancy sports cars in louisiana. Is there no end to the madness?

Is North Carolina Close enough?

This is Chris Barron's Ride (http://therealredbarron.com/2011/03/27/my-latest-obsession/). Chris Barron is the head of GOProud. I'm going to have a sex change and marry him wherever it's legal. :p

http://redbarronradio.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/firebird1.jpg?w=300&h=224


~QC

Phillygirl
03-30-2011, 07:53 PM
They are already driving them in Philly which includes Dykes also.

There ought tobe a law passed. How are we going to able ton tell the difference beteen the old fruit[ driving the sports car and the plain old old dude driving one?

Rockntractor
03-30-2011, 08:03 PM
http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/vv230/upyourstruly/cu-gay-police-gay-demotivational-posters-1295797686.jpg

CueSi
03-30-2011, 08:05 PM
http://findinggeri.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/god_sense_of_humor_sticker-p217100327662132890qjcl_400.jpg

~QC

lacarnut
03-30-2011, 08:07 PM
There ought tobe a law passed. How are we going to able ton tell the difference beteen the old fruit[ driving the sports car and the plain old old dude driving one?

If you would get off the drugs or the booze, I might be able to decipher the meaning of all the misspelled words. What other people drive is their business. I don't drive around in a 5 or 6 year old car either. I trade em in for a new one before the old one needs a tune up.

CueSi
03-30-2011, 08:10 PM
Counselor, I believe you scored a hit.

~QC

Phillygirl
03-30-2011, 08:10 PM
If you would get off the drugs or the booze, I might be able to decipher the meaning of all the misspelled words. What other people drive is their business. I don't drive around in a 5 or 6 year old car either. I trade em in for a new one before the old one needs a tune up.

Yeah, that one was pretty bad. The droid isn't meant for posting on a forum. You buy a new car that often? Seems pretty fickle to me, but I tend to like the cars I buy, so I keep them.

Novaheart
03-30-2011, 08:14 PM
They're already here, Nova. :) (http://www.bvonsports.com/2010/04/13/evander-kane-knocks-out-opponent/) We just don't take over because it's too fucking cold. :p And you can kill yourself driving a racecar... So, there's that.

~QC

Sweden is atwitter.

lacarnut
03-30-2011, 08:22 PM
Yeah, that one was pretty bad. The droid isn't meant for posting on a forum. You buy a new car that often? Seems pretty fickle to me, but I tend to like the cars I buy, so I keep them.

The last 350z I purchased was 4 years old with less than 40k miles when I traded it in; I got tired of red and wanted a white one. Four years is the longest I have ever kept a car. If government motors or BMW give huge discounts in the fall, I may trade my two year old car in for a Vette or a 335I.

fettpett
03-30-2011, 08:25 PM
The last 350z I purchased was 4 years old with less than 40k miles when I traded it in; I got tired of red and wanted a white one. Four years is the longest I have ever kept a car. If government motors or BMW give huge discounts in the fall, I may trade my two year old car in for a Vette or a 335I.

what do you do? get fleeced? but hey if you can afford it, w/e dude

Novaheart
03-30-2011, 08:33 PM
what do you do? get fleeced? but hey if you can afford it, w/e dude

Doesn't have a dog or an infant or aging family member, clearly.

lacarnut
03-30-2011, 08:48 PM
what do you do? get fleeced? but hey if you can afford it, w/e dude

Retired. Drove 600 miles to GA and got a great deal on a car that had been sitting on the lot for a year. I never get fleeced on buying autos cause I have bought so many.

lacarnut
03-30-2011, 08:54 PM
Doesn't have a dog or an infant or aging family member, clearly.

I cared for my mom for10 years and my dad for 2 before he passed away in 2009. Both had terrible strokes.

fettpett
03-30-2011, 10:07 PM
Retired. Drove 600 miles to GA and got a great deal on a car that had been sitting on the lot for a year. I never get fleeced on buying autos cause I have bought so many.

fleece=lease but hey, if you're outright buying, awesome