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fettpett
03-30-2011, 06:19 PM
Could lead codices prove ‘the major discovery of Christian history’?
By Chris Lehmann

British archaeologists are seeking to authenticate what could be a landmark discovery in the documentation of early Christianity: a trove of 70 lead codices that appear to date from the 1st century CE, which may include key clues to the last days of Jesus' life. As UK Daily Mail reporter Fiona Macrae writes, some researchers are suggesting this could be the most significant find in Christian archeology since the Dead Sea scrolls in 1947.
The codices turned up five years ago in a remote cave in eastern Jordan—a region where early Christian believers may have fled after the destruction of the Temple in Jerusalem in 70 CE. The codices are made up of wirebound individual pages, each roughly the size of a credit card. They contain a number of images and textual allusions to the Messiah, as well as some possible references to the crucifixion and resurrection. Some of the codices were sealed, prompting yet more breathless speculation that they could include the sealed book, shown only to the Messiah, mentioned in the Book of Revelation. One of the few sentences translated thus far from the texts, according to the BBC, reads, "I shall walk uprightly"--a phrase that also appears in Revelation. "While it could be simply a sentiment common in Judaism," BBC writer Robert Pigott notes, "it could here be designed to refer to the resurrection."
But the field of biblical archaeology is also prey to plenty of hoaxes and enterprising fraudsters, so investigators are proceeding with due empirical caution. Initial metallurgical research indicates that the codices are about 2,000 years old--based on the manner of corrosion they have undergone, which, as Macrae writes, "experts believe would be impossible to achieve artificially."

Beyond the initial dating tests, however, little is confirmed about the codices or what they contain. And the saga of their discovery has already touched off a battle over ownership rights between Israel and Jordan. As the BBC's Pigott recounts, the cache surfaced when a Jordanian Bedouin saw a menorah—the Jewish religious candleabra—exposed in the wake of a flash flood. But the codices somehow passed into the ownership of an Israeli Bedouin named Hassam Saeda, who claims that they have been in his family's possession for the past 100 years. The Jordanian government has pledged to "exert all efforts at every level" to get the potentially priceless relics returned, Pigott reports.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_thelookout/20110330/ts_yblog_thelookout/could-lead-codices-prove-the-major-discovery-of-christian-history

Pretty amazing...should be interesting to know what all is in the sealed one

Rockntractor
03-30-2011, 06:27 PM
Pretty amazing...should be interesting to know what all is in the sealed one

What will you do if they ate bacon and went to Sunday school?:confused:

Kay
03-30-2011, 10:38 PM
Visual aid:

http://a57.foxnews.com/static/managed/img/Scitech/397/224/Jordan_Ancient_book640.jpg
From: http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2011/03/30/ancient-books-uncovered-jordan/

fettpett
03-30-2011, 10:42 PM
What will you do if they ate bacon and went to Sunday school?:confused:

um...being that most of the early Christians were Jewish, don't see it happening :p

Rockntractor
03-30-2011, 10:45 PM
um...being that most of the early Christians were Jewish, don't see it happening :p

"Come over to Macedonia and help us!"

fettpett
03-30-2011, 10:46 PM
"Come over to Macedonia and help us!"

I said most, not all putz :p

Rockntractor
03-30-2011, 10:46 PM
I said most, not all putz :p
:D

fettpett
03-30-2011, 10:58 PM
:D

http://images.cheezburger.com/completestore/2010/10/11/0085060c-5544-4c5d-a05b-7deb9b73fe81.jpg

PoliCon
03-30-2011, 11:53 PM
By Fiona Macrae
Last updated at 8:36 PM on 30th March 2011

For scholars of faith and history, it is a treasure trove too precious for price.

This ancient collection of 70 tiny books, their lead pages bound with wire, could unlock some of the secrets of the earliest days of Christianity.

Academics are divided as to their authenticity but say that if verified, they could prove as pivotal as the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls in 1947.

On pages not much bigger than a credit card, are images, symbols and words that appear to refer to the Messiah and, possibly even, to the Crucifixion and Resurrection.

Adding to the intrigue, many of the books are sealed, prompting academics to speculate they are actually the lost collection of codices mentioned in the Bible’s Book Of Revelation.



The books were discovered five years ago in a cave in a remote part of Jordan to which Christian refugees are known to have fled after the fall of Jerusalem in 70AD. Important documents from the same period have previously been found there.

Initial metallurgical tests indicate that some of the books could date from the first century AD.


This estimate is based on the form of corrosion which has taken place, which experts believe would be impossible to achieve artificially.

If the dating is verified, the books would be among the earliest Christian documents, predating the writings of St Paul.

The prospect that they could contain contemporary accounts of the final years of Jesus’s life has excited scholars – although their enthusiasm is tempered by the fact that experts have previously been fooled by sophisticated fakes.

David Elkington, a British scholar of ancient religious history and archeology, and one of the few to have examined the books, says they could be ‘the major discovery of Christian history’.

‘It is a breathtaking thought that we have held these objects that might have been held by the early saints of the Church,’ he said.

But the mysteries between their ancient pages are not the books’ only riddle. Today, their whereabouts are also something of a mystery. After their discovery by a Jordanian Bedouin, the hoard was subsequently acquired by an Israeli Bedouin, who is said to have illegally smuggled them across the border into Israel, where they remain.

However, the Jordanian Government is now working at the highest levels to repatriate and safeguard the collection. Philip Davies, emeritus professor of biblical studies at Sheffield University, said there was powerful evidence that the books have a Christian origin in plates cast into a picture map of the holy city of Jerusalem.

‘As soon as I saw that, I was dumbstruck,’ he said. ‘That struck me as so obviously a Christian image. There is a cross in the foreground, and behind it is what has to be the tomb [of Jesus], a small building with an opening, and behind that the walls of the city.

‘There are walls depicted on other pages of these books too and they almost certainly refer to Jerusalem. It is a Christian crucifixion taking place outside the city walls.’

The British team leading the work on the discovery fears that the present Israeli ‘keeper’ may be looking to sell some of the books on to the black market, or worse – destroy them.

But the man who holds the books denies the charge and claims they have been in his family for 100 years.

Dr Margaret Barker, a former president of the Society for Old Testament Study, said: ‘The Book of Revelation tells of a sealed book that was opened only by the Messiah.

‘Other texts from the period tell of sealed books of wisdom and of a secret tradition passed on by Jesus to his closest disciples. That is the context for this discovery.’

Professor Davies said: ‘The possibility of a Hebrew-Christian origin is certainly suggested by the imagery and, if so, these codices are likely to bring dramatic new light to our understanding of a very significant but so far little understood period of history.’

Mr Elkington, who is leading British efforts to have the books returned to Jordan, said: ‘It is vital that the collection can be recovered intact and secured in the best possible circumstances, both for the benefit of its owners and for a potentially fascinated international audience.’

*British scientists have uncovered up to eight million mummified dogs, thought to have been sacrificed to Anubis, the god of the dead, 2500 years ago after excavating tunnels in the ancient Eygptian city of Saqqara.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1371290/70-metal-books-Jordan-cave-change-view-Biblical-history.html

Articulate_Ape
03-31-2011, 12:25 AM
The Dead Sea Chick Tracts?

Rockntractor
03-31-2011, 12:38 AM
Now that it's been posted twice, in the same day.
http://www.conservativeunderground.com/forum505/showthread.php?t=38451

Novaheart
03-31-2011, 12:40 AM
Now that it's been posted twice, in the same day.
http://www.conservativeunderground.com/forum505/showthread.php?t=38451

It's probably ancient porn. It will be everywhere before it's over.

Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John.... hold the whore while I get on.

Madisonian
03-31-2011, 12:48 AM
It's probably ancient porn. It will be everywhere before it's over.

Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John.... hold the whore while I get on.

Or Henny Youngman's first book of one-liners.
A Muslim terrorist was blowing up a camel...

Novaheart
03-31-2011, 01:02 AM
Or Henny Youngman's first book of one-liners.
A Muslim terrorist was blowing up a camel...

Who knew they had inflatable camels?

fettpett
03-31-2011, 07:55 AM
The Dead Sea Chick Tracts?

Codices = a quire of manuscript pages held together by stitching: the earliest form of book, replacing the scrolls and wax tablets of earlier times.

NOT

Cotex = feminine hygiene product

Articulate_Ape
03-31-2011, 11:22 AM
Codices = a quire of manuscript pages held together by stitching: the earliest form of book, replacing the scrolls and wax tablets of earlier times.

NOT

Cotex = feminine hygiene product

:D

noonwitch
03-31-2011, 01:12 PM
It would be interesting to read early writings by christians who also considered themselves to be practicing jews. Writings that perhaps escaped the editorial practices of the early Roman Catholic Church, too.


It could also be a can of worms. Let's say that they find a gospel written by another disciple, let's say Andrew, and that it could be verified to the best degree that it can be. Let's assume that the teachings of Jesus that he records differs greatly from the teachings of Paul, but not really so much from the synoptic gospels.


I admit a bias in this area, though, as a feminist and liberal christian. I would love it if Paul's teachings about women's roles, for example, were to be contradicted by an older source that actually knew Jesus in his human lifespan.

fettpett
03-31-2011, 02:40 PM
I admit a bias in this area, though, as a feminist and liberal christian. I would love it if Paul's teachings about women's roles, for example, were to be contradicted by an older source that actually knew Jesus in his human lifespan.

I think that Paul's teaching have been used to push the wrong message on women's roles for a long time.

also remember that Paul was part of the Sanhedrin, and some of his teachings reflect that. However one thing that gets lost is that in order for him to be a member of the Sanhedrin, he had to be married, yet one would assume from his writings that wasn't, though he never says he wasn't married just refraining from sex.

MrsSmith
03-31-2011, 07:36 PM
It would be interesting to read early writings by christians who also considered themselves to be practicing jews. Writings that perhaps escaped the editorial practices of the early Roman Catholic Church, too.


It could also be a can of worms. Let's say that they find a gospel written by another disciple, let's say Andrew, and that it could be verified to the best degree that it can be. Let's assume that the teachings of Jesus that he records differs greatly from the teachings of Paul, but not really so much from the synoptic gospels.


I admit a bias in this area, though, as a feminist and liberal christian. I would love it if Paul's teachings about women's roles, for example, were to be contradicted by an older source that actually knew Jesus in his human lifespan.
I love Paul's teachings. The description of love is so accurate. And the marriage deal...all women are required to do is show respect. Men are required to love in the manner Christ loved the church, and to treat their wives as co-heirs of Christ. If all couples today followed that same set of instructions, divorce would be an extreme exception.

fettpett
03-31-2011, 08:01 PM
I love Paul's teachings. The description of love is so accurate. And the marriage deal...all women are required to do is show respect. Men are required to love in the manner Christ loved the church, and to treat their wives as co-heirs of Christ. If all couples today followed that same set of instructions, divorce would be an extreme exception.

QFT

noonwitch
04-01-2011, 09:19 AM
I love Paul's teachings. The description of love is so accurate. And the marriage deal...all women are required to do is show respect. Men are required to love in the manner Christ loved the church, and to treat their wives as co-heirs of Christ. If all couples today followed that same set of instructions, divorce would be an extreme exception.


I don't hate Paul's teachings, and 1 Corinthians 13 is an amazing description of love. I just don't necessarily equate his words with God's words. Paul was a man, he had flaws like the rest of us. Some of his best writings are about his overcoming of his flaws with the help of the Spirit. Such as:

"My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness". II Corinthians 12:9

That's the verse I keep in mind while working with very flawed people in the child abuse system. God's strength is best seen when He helps someone overcome their burdens in life-addictions, mental illnesses, victimizations, etc.