PDA

View Full Version : Court Rules to Protect N.C. Professor's Right to Religious Speech



FlaGator
04-07-2011, 10:15 PM
For you fans of Mike Adams

The Fourth Circuit Court of Appeals ruled on Wednesday that a North Carolina (http://www.christianpost.com/region/north-carolina/) university’s decision to deny a professor a promotion based on religious and political commentary – inspired by his conversion to Christianity from atheism (http://www.christianpost.com/topics/atheism/) – is unconstitutional.

A three-member panel ruled that University of North Carolina–Wilmington professor Mike Adams’ political activities constitutes protected, private speech and that university officials could be held personally liable for damages should Adams ultimately prevail in the case.


The ruling strikes down a lower court ruling asserting that Adams’ writings could be considered part of his professional duties as a criminology professor at a public university and were therefore not protected by the First Amendment.
The appeals court said in its opinion, “No individual loses his ability to speak as a private citizen by virtue of public employment.”


Adams frequently received accolades from his colleagues after the university hired him as an assistant professor in 1993 and promoted him to associate professor in 1998. In 2000 Adams, a former atheist, became a Christian. After his conversion, Adams began writing a syndicated column addressing issues such as morality, homosexuality (http://www.christianpost.com/topics/homosexuality/) and abortion (http://www.christianpost.com/topics/abortion/). When he applied for full professorship in 2004, then interim chair of the department Dr. Diane Levy raised concerns about his political activities and recommended that Adams change his writing style.


The following year, the new chair of his department, Dr. Kimberly J. Cook, and a 14-member panel denied Adams’ request for full professorship. He sued university officials in 2006 claiming they violated his religious free speech (http://www.christianpost.com/topics/free-speech/) and equal protection rights after being denied the promotion.


Adams and his attorney, Alliance Defense Fund Senior Counsel David French, assert that both Levy, an outspoken feminist, and Cook, an atheist, denied the full professorship in retaliation to his faith. By Alliance Defense Fund accounts, Cook described that her ideal candidate for the teaching position would be “a lesbian with spiked hair and a dog collar.”


Whole story here (http://www.christianpost.com/news/court-rules-to-protect-nc-professors-right-to-religious-speech-49745/)

MrsSmith
04-10-2011, 11:41 PM
For you fans of Mike Adams


Whole story here (http://www.christianpost.com/news/court-rules-to-protect-nc-professors-right-to-religious-speech-49745/)

It's good to see that our courts haven't completely lost touch with the Bill of Rights.

Rockntractor
04-10-2011, 11:53 PM
This won't set well with Wilbur.

Novaheart
04-11-2011, 12:44 AM
This won't set well with Wilbur.

Adams appears to be an asshole trying to make a name for himself. I think the Christian identity or conversion whether sincere or not is at a minimum secondary and more likely window dressing. It's hard to get noticed these days.


http://townhall.com/columnists/mikeadams/2006/10/23/my_apology_to_unc-wilmington

Colleges do have special rules to protect academic freedom, but there aren't many jobs where you can publicly mock corporate policy and those behind it and not expect to be punished.

I'm wondering where he got the idea he was entitled to be promoted. My friend Lou's dad was an associate professor for 30 years at Georgetown.

fettpett
04-11-2011, 08:09 AM
Adams appears to be an asshole trying to make a name for himself. I think the Christian identity or conversion whether sincere or not is at a minimum secondary and more likely window dressing. It's hard to get noticed these days.


http://townhall.com/columnists/mikeadams/2006/10/23/my_apology_to_unc-wilmington

Colleges do have special rules to protect academic freedom, but there aren't many jobs where you can publicly mock corporate policy and those behind it and not expect to be punished.

I'm wondering where he got the idea he was entitled to be promoted. My friend Lou's dad was an associate professor for 30 years at Georgetown.

you haven't read anything about this case I see. The professor was an atheist and converted to Christianity and started working on a blog and other websites during his free time. UNC first denied his tenure then outright fired him then claimed it was for working on the articles and blog during the school hours, which was false for one and there are other professors that do the same thing.

and the issue isn't that he feel entitled to anything, the issue is that these two decided that their own religious and political views were more important than whether he was qualified or not.

Odysseus
04-11-2011, 08:24 AM
This won't set well with Wilbur.
Or Nova, Wei or KS.

Adams appears to be an asshole trying to make a name for himself. I think the Christian identity or conversion whether sincere or not is at a minimum secondary and more likely window dressing. It's hard to get noticed these days.

Anyone who disagrees with your take on homosexuality "appears to be an a$$#0/e". Got anything to back up your otherwise predictable but unsupported opinion?


http://townhall.com/columnists/mikeadams/2006/10/23/my_apology_to_unc-wilmington

Colleges do have special rules to protect academic freedom, but there aren't many jobs where you can publicly mock corporate policy and those behind it and not expect to be punished.
And academia is one of them. Ward Churchill openly sympathized with the 9/11 terrorists and ridiculed the victims and the left was outraged that his record, which included decades of academic fraud, plagiarism and outright lies about his own ethnicity, was suddenly scrutinized and found to warrant his dismissal. Apparently, mocking your country, lying about it, insulting the victims of terror attacks and falsifying history weren't grounds for punishment until it became so blatant that the public noticed it.

I'm wondering where he got the idea he was entitled to be promoted. My friend Lou's dad was an associate professor for 30 years at Georgetown.[/QUOTE]

Perhaps your friend Lou's dad also hacked off the tenure committee? Or maybe the fact that it's a different college, with different standards for promotion and personnel policies played a part?

wilbur
04-11-2011, 08:25 AM
Nope Rock, can't say as I care!

Wei Wu Wei
04-11-2011, 12:37 PM
Good.

txradioguy
04-11-2011, 12:43 PM
Good for Mr. Adams.

I always enjoy reading his column at TownHall.

Novaheart
04-11-2011, 12:58 PM
you haven't read anything about this case I see. The professor was an atheist and converted to Christianity and started working on a blog and other websites during his free time. UNC first denied his tenure then outright fired him then claimed it was for working on the articles and blog during the school hours, which was false for one and there are other professors that do the same thing.

and the issue isn't that he feel entitled to anything, the issue is that these two decided that their own religious and political views were more important than whether he was qualified or not.

Which one of us hasn't read anything about the case?

fettpett
04-11-2011, 01:09 PM
Which one of us hasn't read anything about the case?

eh, for some reason I was thinking he got fired, however that doesn't take away from the original point of the reason he was denied the promotion.

FlaGator
04-11-2011, 05:59 PM
Nope Rock, can't say as I care!

You cared enough to open this thread and read it.


I'm just saying...

MrsSmith
04-12-2011, 08:40 AM
Adams appears to be an asshole trying to make a name for himself. I think the Christian identity or conversion whether sincere or not is at a minimum secondary and more likely window dressing. It's hard to get noticed these days.


http://townhall.com/columnists/mikeadams/2006/10/23/my_apology_to_unc-wilmington

Colleges do have special rules to protect academic freedom, but there aren't many jobs where you can publicly mock corporate policy and those behind it and not expect to be punished.

I'm wondering where he got the idea he was entitled to be promoted. My friend Lou's dad was an associate professor for 30 years at Georgetown.

Actually, Adams has done a lot toward restoring free speech and freedom of association to Christian and conservative students on every college campus. Thanks to his work and research, a large number of colleges and universities have backed down from extremely "liberal" policies that silenced all conservative speech and closed down most Christian groups. College students get plenty of leftist brainwashing in class, they don't need the entire college working on crushing their rights.

jnkbortka
04-16-2011, 01:10 PM
http://www.realnation.com/userfiles/free-speech-small.jpg

Novaheart
04-16-2011, 01:28 PM
Thanks to his work and research, a large number of colleges and universities have backed down from extremely "liberal" policies that silenced all conservative speech and closed down most Christian groups. College students get plenty of leftist brainwashing in class, they don't need the entire college working on crushing their rights.

Conservative speech has never been "silenced" on public college campuses and Christian groups have only been defunded or removed from official recognition if they violate policies of open membership which have survived court challenge.

Christian Legal Society v. Martinez, 561 U.S. ___, 130 S.Ct. 2971, 177 L.Ed.2d 838 (2010), is a June 28, 2010, decision by the United States Supreme Court. The court upheld, against a First Amendment challenge, the policy of the University of California, Hastings College of the Law governing official recognition of student groups, which required the groups to accept all students regardless of their status or beliefs in order to obtain recognition.

Refer to Rule#1

Novaheart
04-16-2011, 01:29 PM
http://www.realnation.com/userfiles/free-speech-small.jpg

What has Obama got to do with the Adams case?

Odysseus
04-16-2011, 05:06 PM
Conservative speech has never been "silenced" on public college campuses and Christian groups have only been defunded or removed from official recognition if they violate policies of open membership which have survived court challenge.

Christian Legal Society v. Martinez, 561 U.S. ___, 130 S.Ct. 2971, 177 L.Ed.2d 838 (2010), is a June 28, 2010, decision by the United States Supreme Court. The court upheld, against a First Amendment challenge, the policy of the University of California, Hastings College of the Law governing official recognition of student groups, which required the groups to accept all students regardless of their status or beliefs in order to obtain recognition.

Refer to Rule#1

That's like saying that there was no racial discrimination because the 14th Amendment prohibited it.

Conservative speech is routinely punished on campuses, via speech codes which are selectively enforced, reprisal by faculty at grading time, refusal of tenure or of consideration for positions for faculty and outright thuggery by student leftists, which includes attacks on conservative students, theft of conservative publications and violent protests at conservative events, especially when conservative speakers are involved. And the fact that the conservatives have to waste time and money to go to court in order to be treated the same way that other groups are treated raises the bar for conservatives, who cannot express themselves unless they are confident that they have the resources to beat a college with a billion+ dollar endowment in court.

Novaheart
04-16-2011, 09:52 PM
That's like saying that there was no racial discrimination because the 14th Amendment prohibited it.


Actually, it isn't. Mrs. Smith's claim was quite specific and quite wrong.

Of course you haven't bothered to give any examples of what you are referring to, as persecution complexes work best without truth.



For reference, here was her claim, "Thanks to his work and research, a large number of colleges and universities have backed down from extremely "liberal" policies that silenced all conservative speech and closed down most Christian groups."

Now for this to be true, the universities would have had to have liberal policies that silence all conservative speech and closed down most Christian groups. It simply isn't true. Secondly, she'd have to have some idea what she's talking about, hence "refer to Rule #1.

wilbur
04-16-2011, 10:16 PM
Actually, it isn't. Mrs. Smith's claim was quite specific and quite wrong.

Of course you haven't bothered to give any examples of what you are referring to, as persecution complexes work best without truth.

For reference, here was her claim, "Thanks to his work and research, a large number of colleges and universities have backed down from extremely "liberal" policies that silenced all conservative speech and closed down most Christian groups."

Now for this to be true, the universities would have had to have liberal policies that silence all conservative speech and closed down most Christian groups. It simply isn't true. Secondly, she'd have to have some idea what she's talking about, hence "refer to Rule #1.

There's a whole circuit of Christian/Conservative news sources that make it their mission to spread far and wide reports of any instance where a religious or conservative student so much as get looked at funny on campus, and flood their media outlets and blogs with reports of the persecution.

MrsSmith follows them all.

FlaGator
04-16-2011, 10:24 PM
There's a whole circuit of Christian/Conservative news sources that make it their mission to spread far and wide reports of any instance where a religious or conservative student so much as get looked at funny on campus, and flood their media outlets and blogs with reports of the persecution.

MrsSmith follows them all.

Kind of like this site http://www.persecution.com/

wilbur
04-16-2011, 10:32 PM
Kind of like this site http://www.persecution.com/

Yep.

There isnt any service that reports when say, a Christian student group successfully meets without incident, with full approval of the school..

How do you think this reality might affect one's view of the world?l

FlaGator
04-16-2011, 10:37 PM
Yep.

There isnt any service that reports when say, a student group successfully meets without incident, with full approval of the school

There are plenty that report every time an atheist gets even mildly offended by anything of a non secular nature and goes whining his are her way to court screaming "separation of church and state!" . In fact there are lots more of those.

I'm glad you find Christian martyrdom so amusing. You are your father's son.

Novaheart
04-16-2011, 10:56 PM
There are plenty that report every time an atheist gets even mildly offended by anything of a non secular nature and goes whining his are her way to court screaming "separation of church and state!" . In fact there are lots more of those.

I'm glad you find Christian martyrdom so amusing. You are your father's son.

Religious martyrdom isn't amusing, it's stupid.

FlaGator
04-16-2011, 11:02 PM
Religious martyrdom isn't amusing, it's stupid.

I'm not sure what you mean by stupid, but just for your enlightenment...


'Creeping Genocide' against Christians

Open Doors compiles a global "persecution index." North Korea, where tens of thousands of Christians are serving time in work camps, has topped the list for many years. North Korea is followed, though, by Iran, Saudi Arabia, Somalia, the Maldives and Afghanistan. Of the first 10 countries on the list, eight are Islamic, and almost all have Islam as their state religion.


The systematic persecution of Christians in the 20th century -- by Communists in the Soviet Union and China, but also by Nazis -- claimed far more lives than anything that has happened so far in the 21st century. Now, however, it is not only totalitarian regimes persecuting Christians, but also residents of Islamic states, fanatical fundamentalists, and religious sects -- and often simply supposedly pious citizens.


Gone is the era of tolerance, when Christians enjoyed a large degree of religious freedom under the protection of Muslim sultans as so-called "People of the Book" while at the same time medieval Europe was banishing its Jews and Muslims from the continent or even burning them at the stake. Also gone is the heyday of Arab secularism following World War II, when Christian Arabs advanced through the ranks of politics.


As political Islam grew stronger, devout believers' aggression focused not only on corrupt local regimes, but also more and more on the ostensibly corrupting influence of Western Christians, for which local Christian minorities were held accountable. A new trend began, this time with Christians as the victims.
In Iraq, for example, Sunni terrorist groups prey specifically on people of other religions. The last Iraqi census in 1987 showed 1.4 million Christians living in the country. At the start of the American invasion in 2003, it was 550,000, and at present it is just under 400,000. Experts speak of a "creeping genocide."


The whole story is here (http://abcnews.go.com/International/christian-martyrs-victims-radical-islam/story?id=9976549)

Novaheart
04-16-2011, 11:11 PM
Student Organizations Home


Abba Modern ()

Purpose: We are a Christ-centered dance group that aims to spread Christian thought and ideals to the Berkeley community through the art of dance and testimony.
acts2fellowship (A2F)
Purpose: Christian Fellowship for all students-- for training and learning Bible theology, philosophy, community service, and much more.
Adventist Christian Fellowship (ACF)
Purpose: To provide an open fellowship where students can grow in Christ.
alpha delta chi (ADX) Christian Sorority (ADX)
Purpose: The aims and purpose of Alpha Delta Chi are to strengthen the to strengthen the spiritual lives and testimonies of the members of the National Fraternity resulting in service and outreach to others, to promote higher scholastic standards among the 
members and to provide social fellowship among the university students 
living the Christian life and active in Christ's service.
Alpha Gamma Omega (AGO)
Purpose: This is a sponsored student organization that is part of the Interfraternity Council (IFC).
Ark, The ()
Purpose: To be an on-campus extension of The Ark. The Ark is a Christ-centered, Spirit-led community of students and young adults who are going hard after Jesus.
BCBC Breakthrough Fellowship (BT)
Purpose: Bringing Christian life to Cantonese-speaking Berkeley students. Supported by Berkeley Chinese Baptist Church (http://www.bcbc-berkeley.org).

Berkeley Christian Fellowship (BCF)

Berkeley Jewish Journal, The (BJJ)

Berkeley Journal of Middle Eastern and Islamic Law (JMEIL)

Boalt Muslim Student Association ()


Cal Christian Fellowship - IVCF (CCF-IVCF)


Campus Evangelistic Fellowship - Mandarin Group (CEF)


Catholic Students at Cal - Newman Hall ()


CFC - Youth for Christ at Berkeley ()

Chinese Bible Fellowship ()


Christian Science Organization at Berkeley ()


Christians at Boalt (CAB)


Christians on Campus ()


Chun Jin Ahm (CJA)
Purpose: CJA is a fellowship of predominantly (but not limited to) Korean Americans that meet every week to discuss and share our experiences with fellow Catholics.

Collegiate Association for the Research of Principles (C.A.R.P.) (CARP)


Covenant Reformed Christian Fellowship (CRCF)


Crossroads Christian Fellowship: Chinese for Christ Berkeley Church ()


Crossway Campus Ministry (Crossway)


Cru (Campus Crusade for Christ)


Destino ()


DiaKonos ()


Divine Youth Association ()


Eastbay Bible Institute (EBI)


Eastbay Christian Fellowship (ECF)


Fellowship in Christ in Berkeley (FiCB)


For Christ's Sake (FCS)


Ginosko ()

Gujarati Student Association ()

Harvest Berkeley ()

Hindu Students Council (HSC)

Homegroup Fellowship ()

Homeless Ministry at Berkeley ()


In Christ Alone (ICA)

InterCP (IACD)

Interfaith Action Initiative (IAI)

InterVarsity Christian Fellowship (IVCF)

Jewish Business Association ()

Jewish Student Union (JSU)

Jewish Study at Berkeley ()

JMed: The Jewish Pre-Medical Network at Berkeley ()

Kairos Christian Fellowship ()

KAPWA - IVCF ()

Koinonia ()

Korea Campus Crusade for Christ (KCCC)

Korean Bible Study and Koinonia (KBSK)

Korean-American Campus Mission (CBS)

La Fe - IVCF ()

LDS Student Association (LDSSA)

Livingwater Fellowship (LWF)

MTO Sufi Association (M.T.O. SA)

Muslim Student Association (MSA)

Network of Spiritual Progressives (NSP)

Progressive Christians at Berkeley (PSOF)

Reformed University Fellowship (RUF) (RUF)

Sikh Students Association (SSA)
.
Students for A Nonreligious Ethos (SANE) (SANE)

To An Unknown God ()

Tzu Chi Compassion Relief Foundation (TC)

Unitarian Universalist Campus Ministry (UUCM)

Unity in Christ (UiC)

University Lutheran Chapel Campus Ministry (ULC)

Urban Grace On Campus (UGOC)


Veritas Fellowship ()

Wesley House and Campus Center ()

Westminster House ()

World Peace Buddhists (WPB)

Young Disciples of Jesus ()

FlaGator
04-16-2011, 11:17 PM
Student Organizations Home


<snip>
And your point is? And how does it relate to my previous posts on this thread?

Novaheart
04-16-2011, 11:23 PM
And your point is? And how does it relate to my previous posts on this thread?

Those are student religious groups at Berkeley, of all places, groups Mrs. Smith would have you believe are nonexistent or that now exist because of something Mike Adams did, and it's simply not true. Mrs. Smith is a liar.

FlaGator
04-16-2011, 11:32 PM
Those are student religious groups at Berkeley, of all places, groups Mrs. Smith would have you believe are nonexistent or that now exist because of something Mike Adams did, and it's simply not true. Mrs. Smith is a liar.

Why then did you respond to my posts which had nothing to do with Mrs. Smiths? You stated that a martyr complex worked best with no proof so I presented solid evidence of Christian Martyrdom in the 20th and 21st century.

There are varying degrees of persecution. You as a homosexual should be aware of this. Some forms are open and openly hostile. Other types are more subtle but equally devastating. There is a degree of Christian persecution in the U.S. and it is growing. It is not to the level that it is in other parts of the world but Biblical Prophecy says that it will get bad everywhere, eventually. Just because seems small now doesn't mean that it will be small tomorrow.

CueSi
04-16-2011, 11:32 PM
Those are student religious groups at Berkeley, of all places, groups Mrs. Smith would have you believe are nonexistent or that now exist because of something Mike Adams did, and it's simply not true. Mrs. Smith is a liar.

Did she explicitly say Berkley, though?

~QC

FlaGator
04-16-2011, 11:37 PM
Did she explicitly say Berkley, though?

~QC

I have issues with people who call other people lairs, especially when what is being argued about is a clash in worldviews. I believe in absolute truth, but the understanding of that truth can be tainted by ones personal bias. Mrs. Smith views things through the lens of her beliefs, Nova through his. They see the same basic facts (truths) and interpret them differently. That doesn't make Mrs. Smith a liar, it just means that her view of the facts is different than Nova's. He shouldn't call her a liar because of a disagreement in points of view.

Novaheart
04-16-2011, 11:40 PM
You stated that a martry complex worked best with no proof....

No I didn't. A said a persecution complex works best with no proof, and Mrs. Smith wasn't talking about Christians in North Korea. She was talking about American campuses.

Novaheart
04-16-2011, 11:42 PM
Did she explicitly say Berkley, though?

~QC


No, she said "all conservative speech and most christian groups", so choosing Berkeley to disprove this seemed logical as it is ground zero for left wing orthodoxy in a state school.

FlaGator
04-16-2011, 11:44 PM
No I didn't. A said a persecution complex works best with no proof, and Mrs. Smith wasn't talking about Christians in North Korea. She was talking about American campuses.

I mistyped, I meant persecution complex and Martyrdom is a type of persecution so my point still stands.

Now for a question. If Christians perceive a little persecution at present shouldn't they speak up before it becomes more prevalent or should they just wait until it gets really bad before they say something?

Novaheart
04-16-2011, 11:46 PM
I have issues with people who call other people lairs, especially when what is being argued about is a clash in worldviews. I believe in absolute truth, but the understanding of that truth can be tainted by ones personal bias. Mrs. Smith views things through the lens of her beliefs, Nova through his. They see the same basic facts (truths) and interpret them differently. That doesn't make Mrs. Smith a liar, it just means that her view of the facts is different than Nova's. He shouldn't call her a liar because of a disagreement in points of view.

I called her a liar because she had to have known that what she was saying probably wasn't true and she said it anyway.

wilbur
04-16-2011, 11:58 PM
There are plenty that report every time an atheist gets even mildly offended by anything of a non secular nature and goes whining his are her way to court screaming "separation of church and state!" . In fact there are lots more of those.

Actually, those are some of the very favorites of the same media circuit that I am talking about.. they love those sorts of stories because they reinforce the "Christian persecution" narrative so easily, whether rightly or wrongly. That's exactly what I'm talking about.

Novaheart
04-17-2011, 12:00 AM
I mistyped, I meant persecution complex and Martyrdom is a type of persecution so my point still stands.

Now for a question. If Christians perceive a little persecution at present shouldn't they speak up before it becomes more prevalent or should they just wait until it gets really bad before they say something?

The difference between persecution and a persecution complex is that in the latter one perceives ordinary behaviors as malevolent.

Example: A rule against workplace evangelism isn't persecuting Christians, it is enforcing a professional and respectful workplace standard.

In the case of Mike Adams, it's a bit of a stretch to believe that all his assholism came with and from his new religion, so it's a bit disingenuous for him to attempt to wrap himself in a priest's cloak for protection.

CueSi
04-17-2011, 12:02 AM
No, she said "all conservative speech and most christian groups", so choosing Berkeley to disprove this seemed logical as it is ground zero for left wing orthodoxy in a state school.

Yeah, but being that she didn't mention Berkley explicitly, while logical ... doesn't prove her to be a liar.

~QC

MrsSmith
04-17-2011, 12:48 PM
I called her a liar because she had to have known that what she was saying probably wasn't true and she said it anyway.

No, you called me a liar because you refuse to believe the obvious. :rolleyes: Someone that believes Christians are all stupid and should shut-up certainly wouldn't care about policies that support that belief. Bigotry towards Christians and Christian beliefs are so normal to most people that they actually think they are legal.

http://thefire.org/

Sinclair Community College: Unconstitutional Ban on Distributing Literature After Class
Albertson College of Idaho: Speech Code Repeal
Albright College: Assault on Academic Freedom to Criticize Administration
American University: Denial of Right to Videotape Public Events
Appalachian State University: Speech Code Repeal
Arizona State University: Racial Restrictions on Class Enrollment (2002)
Arizona State University: Racial Restrictions on Class Enrollment (2005)
Ashland University: Professor Denied Tenure Because of Objectivist Scholarship
Ball State University: Threat to Religous Group’s Freedom of Association
Bellevue Community College: Professor Punished for "Racially Insensitive" Exam Question
Bennington College: Termination of Professor Without a Hearing
Binghamton University: Social Work Student Expelled
Binghamton University: Student Suspended for Posters Criticizing Department of Social Work and Government Agency
Boston College: Controversial Speaker Disinvited
Boston College: Red Light Rating
Bowdoin College: Professor Investigated Because Article Embarrasses the College
Brandeis University: Professor Found Guilty of Harassment for Protected Speech
Brandeis University: Refusal to Provide Due Process to Person Accused of Sex Offense
Brooklyn College: Administrative Attempt to Stop Academic Freedom Resolution
Brooklyn College: Possible Investigation of Professor's Expression
Brooklyn College: Public Pressure Against Student Instructor
Brown University: Wrongful Suspension of Religious Student Group
Bucknell University: University Slams Door on Student Satires of Obama Stimulus Plan and Affirmative Action
Bucks County Community College: Ideological Loyalty Oath for Professors
California Institute of Integral Studies: Assault on Professor's Academic Freedom
California Polytechnic State University (Cal Poly): Bias Reporting System Targets "Politically Incorrect" Professors
California Polytechnic State University (Cal Poly): Use of Disruption Claim to Suppress Free Speech
California State University at San Bernardino: Refusal to Recognize Christian Group
California: Unconstitutional Discriminatory Harassment Policies
Catholic University of America: Rejection of Campus NAACP Chapter
Central Connecticut State University: Controversy Over Newspaper Cartoon
Central Michigan University: Abridgement of Freedom to Display Patriotic Symbols
Central Michigan University: Assessment of Security Fees for Controversial Speaker
Central Michigan University: Student Group's Freedom of Association Under Attack
Central Washington University: Student Group Faces De-funding for Protected Expression
Century College: Censorship of Mohammed Cartoons
Citrus College: Compulsory Anti-War Speech
Citrus College: Speech Code Litigation
City University of New York: Administrative Attempts to Suppress Faculty Speech
Claremont University Consortium: Free Speech Silenced by Administrators
Clemson University: Free Speech Zone Suspended
Clemson University: Restrictions on Contacting Public Officials
Clemson University: Student Charged with Harassment and Disorderly Conduct for Single E-mail
College of the Holy Cross: Abridgement of Freedom to Display Patriotic Symbols
College of William and Mary: Suppression of Affirmative Action Bake Sale
Colorado College: Students Found Guilty for Satirical Flyer
Colorado State University: Student Editor on Trial for Protected Speech
Colorado State University: Students Fight for Rights to Free Speech and Assembly
Columbia Law School: Threat to Punish Professor for ‘Hostile Environment’ Due to Exam Question
Columbia University: Faculty Academic Freedom Debate
Columbia University: Hockey Club Punished for 'Offensive' Flyer
Columbia University: Ideological Litmus Tests at Teachers College
Columbia University: Violation of Due Process Rights in Sexual Misconduct Policy
Community College of Allegheny County: Student Denied Right to Start Advocacy Organization
Cornell University: Student Group’s Sign Display Removed from Engineering Quad
Craven Community College: Attempt to Establish Administrative Control over Student Newspaper
CSWE: Political Litmus Tests at Schools of Social Work
Dartmouth College: Abolition of Speech Code
DePaul University: Censorship of Student Group Protesting Ward Churchill
DePaul University: Discrimination against Student Organization
DePaul University: Professor Suspended for Expression Without Due Process
DePaul University: Shutdown of Affirmative Action Bake Sale Protest
Duke University: Administrative Ban on Faculty Member’s Website
Duke University: Overbroad and Unjust Sexual Misconduct Policy
Duke University: Women's Center Cancels 'Motherhood' Event
East Georgia College: Professor Fired Without a Hearing over Mysterious 'Sexual Harassment' Charge
East Stroudsburg University of Pennsylvania: Professor Suspended after Joking about Students on Facebook
Fairfield University: Harassment Charge and Funding Threat Against Student Newspaper
Federal Anti-Harassment Bill Threatens First Amendment Rights on Campus
Florida International University: Racial and Ethnic Restrictions for Class Enrollment
Forsyth Technical Community College: Dismissal of Professor for Criticizing Iraq War
Gainesville State College: President Censors Faculty Art Critical of Confederate Heritage
George Mason University: Unconstitutional Policies and Suppression of Dissent
George Washington University: Secret Informer Line
George Washington University: Violation of Due Process Rights in Sexual Misconduct Policy
Georgetown University: Student Newspaper's Censorship of Columnist
Georgetown University: Unequal Treatment of Student Organizations
Gettysburg College: Unjust Sexual Misconduct Policy
Glendale Community College: Professor Sanctioned for Sending E-Mail
Gonzaga University: Censorship of ‘Hate Speech’
Gonzaga University: Refusal to Recognize Christian Pro-Life Club
Governors State University: Censorship of Student Newspaper
Grambling State University: Ban on Core Political Expression
Grand Valley State University: Political Litmus Test in Music Department’s Job Requirements
Grand Valley State University: Suppression of Affirmative Action Bake Sale
Hamilton College: Thought Reform of 'Pro-Rape' Male Freshmen
Hamline University: Student Suspended after Advocating Concealed Carry on Campus
Hampton University: Gay and Lesbian Student Group Denied Recognition Without Explanation
Hampton University: Punishment of Students for Literature Distribution
Harvard University: Administration Threatened to Cancel ‘Barely Legal’ Party Due to Event’s Name
Harvard University: Denial of Due Process for Student Acquitted of Criminal Charges
Harvard University: Due Process Debate
Harvard University: Proposed Speech Codes
Harvard University: Threat to Discipline Student Newspaper Staff for Publishing Satirical Cartoon
Hinds Community College: Student Barred from Class
Idaho State University: Suspension of Faculty Senate
Indian River Community College: Ban on ‘The Passion of the Christ’ and Repression of Free Speech
Indiana University - Purdue University Indianapolis: Student Employee Found Guilty of 'Racial Harassment' for Reading a Book
Indiana University South Bend: Student Sanctioned for 'Vagina Monologues' Interview
James Madison University: Photographs Seized from Student Newspaper
Johns Hopkins University: Disciplining of Professor for Pro-War Remarks
Johns Hopkins University: Student Punished for Party Invitation
Johns Hopkins University: Viewpoint Discrimination Against Student Newspaper
Lake Superior State University: Veteran Professor Ordered to Remove Posted Materials from Office Door
Lakeland Community College: Disciplining of Professor for Religious Speech
Le Moyne College: Dismissal of Student for Dissenting Views
Le Moyne College: Dismissal of Student Newspaper Adviser

MrsSmith
04-17-2011, 12:49 PM
Lehigh University: Refusal to Permit Patriotic Displays
Lone Star College: Student Group Threatened with Probation and Derecognition for Posting Flyer
Lopez v. Candaele
Los Angeles City College: Threats to Freedom of the Press
Louisiana State University: Threat to Muslim Group's Freedom of Association
Macomb Community College: Censorship of Professor’s Classroom Speech
Marquette University: Political Quote Banned from Office Door
Marshall University: Racially Restricted Orientation Classes
Michigan State University: Group Charged for Showing Controversial Film
Michigan State University: Program of Thought Reform
Michigan State University: Student Government Official Threatened with Suspension for E-mailing Faculty about University Scheduling Concerns
Milwaukee School of Engineering: Threat to Christian Group’s Freedom of Association
Missouri State University (Formerly Southwest Missouri State): Assault on Press Freedom
Missouri State University: Political Litmus Test in School of Social Work
Mohammed Cartoon Controversy: FIRE Response to Intimidation and Newspaper Disputes
Montclair State University: Student Group Faces De-funding for Protected Expression
Monterey Peninsula College: Ideological Litmus Loyalty Oath for Professors
NCATE: Encouragement of Political Litmus Tests in Higher Education
New York University: Suppression of Discussion of Mohammed Cartoons
North Shore Community College: Ideological Litmus Testing for Job Candidates
Northeastern Illinois University: Suppression of Affirmative Action Bake Sale
Northern Illinois University: Unequal Treatment of Political and Religious Student Organizations
Occidental College: Use of Harassment Charges to Suppress Protected Speech
Ohio State University: Refusal to Allow Religious Clubs to Decide Membership Based on Religious Belief
Orange Coast College: Suspension of Professor Without a Hearing for Political Science Lecture
Pace University: Christian Student Organization Denied Recognition
Pennsylvania House of Representatives Select Committee on Student Academic Freedom
Pennsylvania State University - University Park: Student Sues for Art Censorship
Pennsylvania State University: Charges of ‘Discrimination’ Due to Religious Language in Club Constitution
Pennsylvania State University: Disciplining of Professor for Pro-War Remarks
Phi Beta Kappa: Member Institutions' Speech Codes
Princeton University: Refusal to Recognize Religious Group
Purdue University: Refusal to Allow Christian Women’s Group to Require Christian Membership
Quinnipiac University: Freedoms of Press and Association in Jeopardy
Rhode Island College: Punishment of Professor for Refusal to Censor Speech
Rhode Island College: Violation of Student’s Freedom of Conscience
Rogers State University: First Amendment Violations
Rutgers University: Refusal to Allow Christian Clubs to Require Christian Leadership
Saint Cloud State University: Thought Reform and Suppression of Free Speech
Saint Louis Community College: Student Punished for E-mailing Classmates
Saint Xavier University: Reprimand of Professor for Anti-Military Comments
San Diego State University: Censorship of Pro-American Student Speech
San Francisco State University: Speech Codes Litigation
San Francisco State University: Students Investigated for Stepping on Flags
San José/Evergreen Community College District: Professor Fired for Protected Classroom Speech
Santa Rosa Junior College: Overbroad Ban on "Unofficial" Use of College’s Initials
Seminole Community College: Refusal to Allow Student to Distribute Literature
Shaw University: Severe Punishment for Criticizing Administration
Shippensburg University: Speech Code Litigation
Southern Illinois University at Carbondale: Derecognition of Christian Law School Group
Southern Illinois University at Carbondale: Free Speech Crisis Over Unconstitutional Policies
Southwestern College: Professors Banned from Campus after Students Stray Beyond 'Free Speech Patio'
Stanford University: Education Program Tries to Keep Outspoken Student from Enrolling, Demands Access to Private Blog
State College Area School District: Speech Code Court Decision
State University of New York at Brockport: Speech Code Litigation
State University of New York at Fredonia: Professor Punished for Public Expression
Stetson University: Viewpoint-Based Censorship of Student Magazine
Suffolk County Community College: Abuse of Harassment and Intimidation Charges to Silence Student Journalist
Syracuse University: Disciplinary Investigations of Satirical Law School Blog
Syracuse University: Police Threaten to Censor Halloween Costumes
Tarrant County College Bans Symbolic 'Empty Holster' Protest
Temple College: Censorship of Cartoon and Nietzsche Quotation on Professor's Office Door
Temple University: Speech Code Litigation
Temple University: Student Group Put on Probation Because of FIRE Speaker
Temple University: Unconstitutional Security Fee for Geert Wilders Presentation
Texas Tech University: Speech Code Litigation
Troy University: Speech Code Litigation
Tufts University: Conservative Student Journal Investigated for Harassment
Tufts University: Refusal to Allow Evangelical Christian Club to Reject Homosexual Leadership
Tufts University: Speech Code Controversy
Tufts University: Use of Sexual Harassment Allegations to Suppress Protected Speech
University of Alabama: Attempt to Limit Freedom of Speech and Right to Petition
University of Alabama: Ban on Window Displays
University of Alabama: Disparate Treatment of Conservative Organizations
University of Alabama: Faculty Senate ‘Hate Speech’ Resolution
University of Alaska: Investigation of Protected Speech
University of Arizona: Pro-Life Group Denied Recognition Over Belief Requirement
University of Arizona: Screening of Controversial Film Cancelled
University of Arizona: Unconstitutional Security Fee Charged for Speech by University Critic
University of California at Berkeley: Ban on Word "California" in Organization Names
University of California at Berkeley: Newspaper Theft
University of California at Berkeley: Police Officer Charges Student with 'Unauthorized Conduct'
University of California at Berkeley: Prohibitive Security Fee Charged for Controversial Speaker
University of California at Irvine: Suppression of Affirmative Action Bake Sale
University of California at Los Angeles: Attempt to Stop Critical Website from Using Letters 'UCLA'
University of California at Los Angeles: Controversial Student Event Cancelled
University of California at Los Angeles: Disciplinary Investigation of Student's Video
University of California at Los Angeles: Non-Reappointment of Controversial Professor
University of California at San Diego: Censorship of Student Satire Magazine
University of California at San Diego: First Amendment Violations at UCSD
University of California at Santa Barbara: Attempt to Stop Website from Using Letters ‘UCSB’
University of California at Santa Barbara: Censorship of Student Thesis
University of California at Santa Barbara: Professor Investigated for Sending E-Mail to Class
University of California Hastings College of the Law: Denial of Recognition to Christian Law School Group
University of Central Florida: "Free Press Zone"
University of Central Florida: Censorship of Internet Speech
University of Central Florida: Speech Quarantined to 'Free Assembly Areas'
University of Chicago: Censorship of Student's Online Speech by University Police
University of Chicago: Facebook Photo Album Censored for "Disrespect"
University of Colorado at Boulder: Disciplinary Hearing Allowing Accuser to Judge Accused
University of Colorado at Boulder: Investigation of Professor for Controversial Essay
University of Colorado at Boulder: Prohibitive Security Fee Charged for Controversial Speakers
University of Colorado at Boulder: Suppression of Affirmative Action Bake Sale
University of Delaware: Students Required to Undergo Ideological Reeducation
University of Florida: Reaffirmation of Right to Show Documentary
University of Georgia: Police Investigate and Censor "Intolerance" in Residence Halls
University of Georgia: Restriction on Fraternities’ Free Speech Rights
University of Georgia: Student Faces Charges for Complaint about Parking Services
University of Idaho: Student Charged With Discrimination and Harassment for 'Offensive' Speech
University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign: Professor Punished for Teaching about Catholic Thought in Course about Catholic Thought
University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign: Student Investigated for Facebook.com Comments About School Mascot Debate

MrsSmith
04-17-2011, 12:50 PM
University of Maryland: State Senators Pressure University to Cancel Controversial Film Screening
University of Massachusetts at Amherst: Refusal to Permit Pro-War Speech
University of Massachusetts at Amherst: Student Government Tries to Punish Conservative Newspaper
University of Massachusetts at Amherst: Student Group Charged Unconstitutional Security Fee for Controversial Speaker
University of Massachusetts at Amherst: Student Newspapers Stolen While Police Officer Watches
University of Massachusetts at Amherst: Suppression of ‘Racist’ Speech
University of Miami: Refusal to Approve Conservative Student Group
University of Michigan – Ann Arbor: Unequal Treatment of Conservative Student Newspaper
University of Minnesota - Twin Cities: Political Litmus Test for Future Teachers
University of Nevada at Reno: Unconstitutional Free Speech Zone Policy
University of New Hampshire: Eviction of Student for Posting Flier
University of New Mexico: Censorship of Professor After Joking About Pentagon Attack
University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill: Denial of Freedom of Association for Christian Fraternity
University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill: Refusal to Allow Christian Clubs to Require Christian Leadership
University of North Carolina at Greensboro: Punishment of Free Speech Protestors
University of North Carolina at Greensboro: Review of Speech Codes
University of North Carolina at Wilmington: Invasion of Professor’s Privacy and Suppression of Speech
University of North Carolina System: State of the First Amendment
University of Oklahoma: Ban on E-mailing Political Humor or Commentary
University of Oklahoma: Plot to Punish Professor for Political Beliefs, Whistleblowing
University of Oklahoma: State Legislature Investigates University for Hosting Controversial Speaker
University of Oklahoma: Use of Sexual Harassment Allegations to Suppress Protected Speech
University of Oregon: Derecognition of Student Group for ‘Offensive’ Publication
University of Rhode Island: Student Senate Attempts to Compel Speech
University of South Carolina: Mandated Orthodoxy in the Classroom
University of South Florida: Administrator Confuses Conservatives and Libertarians to Deny Group's Recognition
University of South Florida: The ‘Heckler’s Veto’
University of Southern California: Censorship of Performance and Protest
University of Tennessee: Speech Code Repeal
University of Virginia: Lack of Due Process During Honor Code Investigations
University of West Georgia: Student Newspaper's Funding Cut on Basis of Content
University of Wisconsin - Madison: Cancellation of Antiwar Event
University of Wisconsin at Eau Claire: Ban on RAs’ Leading Bible Studies
University of Wisconsin at Eau Claire: Unconstitutional Student Fee Funding Amendment
University of Wisconsin at La Crosse: Censorship of Student Magazine
University of Wisconsin: Students' Due Process Rights
Valdosta State University: Freedom of Expression on Campus Limited to Unconstitutional Free Speech Zone
Valdosta State University: Student Expelled for Peacefully Protesting Parking Garages
Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University (Virginia Tech): Ban on Certain Viewpoints and Requirement of Prior Approval for Speech
Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University: "Diversity" Requirement for Faculty Assessment Violates Academic Freedom and Freedom of Conscience
Virginia Tech: Virginia Tech Threatens Student Newspaper's Future over Protected Anonymous Comments on Its Own Website
Virginia: Attorney General Investigates Professor's Research
Washington State University: Administrative Support for Heckler's Veto of Student Play
Washington State University: Use of Dispositions Theory to Enforce Ideological Orthodoxy
Washington University: Mandatory University Viewpoint
Wesleyan University: Violation of Freedom of Association
West Virginia University: Limit on Speech to Campus "Free Speech Zones"
Widener University: Law School Threatens Professor's Academic Freedom
William Paterson University: Punishment on Harassment Charges for Response to Mass E-Mail
Williams College: Suppression of Freedom of Association by Nondiscrimination Policy
Wilson College: Student Internet Expression Under Attack
Wright State University: Christian Group Banned from Campus
Yale University: Censorship of Mohammed Cartoons at Yale University Press
Yale University: Controversial Anti-Harvard T-shirt Quoting F. Scott Fitzgerald
Yale University: Suppression of Pro-War Speech
‘Lyle v. Warner Brothers Television Productions et al.’: Lawsuit Threatening Expansion of Sexual Harassment Codes




Obviously, I am just lying. :rolleyes::rolleyes:

wilbur
04-17-2011, 12:55 PM
Do you even read those MrsSmith? Do you actually research these cases, to find if they are legitimate or not? Do you say... compare the number of discrimination incidents that occur with conservative/religious events/groups/whatever to the number that occur without incident? And how do those rates stack up with rates of discrimination for other groups - is it similar, less, more? These are things you need to know, if you're going to make broad claims about general trends, one way or the other, or make claims suggesting that your own people suffer more discrimination than others.

Look, take for instance one of the line items in your list:

"Harvard University: Administration Threatened to Cancel ‘Barely Legal’ Party Due to Event’s Name"

Uhh... that's supposed to be an example of religious/conservative discrimination in academia?! I'm sure you would be similarly unimpressed if I spammed a laundry list like that from the ACLU, as evidence that blacks, or non-religious suffer unfair discrimination, en masse. Unless you're actually crunching the numbers, it doesnt matter how many items you can compile - you're just giving us meaningless anecdotes that do nothing to support your claims.

Novaheart
04-17-2011, 01:41 PM
Obviously, I am just lying. :rolleyes::rolleyes:



Either that, or you are an easily led idiot.

Let's look at a couple of examples from your barrage of bullshit.

Claremont University Consortium: Free Speech Silenced by Administrators
At the Claremont University Consortium in California, there were several blatant attacks on constitutionally protected free speech. At Scripps College, flyers for a "white party" were criticized by the administration and a "cultural epithet and offensive drawing on the write and wipe board of a student's room" was erased. At Harvey Mudd College, a student's message on a whiteboard "Hillary is a foxy lesbian" was erased and campus security was notified. These and several other cases highlighted by student writers on campus shed light on potential systemic violations of student speech rights at the Consortium.

What precisely do you think this demonstrates? There isn't even a claim of action, merely "criticism" and campus security being notified because someone wrote or erased something.




University of Miami: Refusal to Approve Conservative Student Group


This group was denied because there was already a campus group for Republican students, and the group was seen as duplicate and unnecessary. The policy was explained by Donna Shalala, that it was intended to prevent duplication and the dilution of limited resources but on reconsideration clearly gave preference to existing groups and discouraged new groups, so it was changed.

You haven't gone through this list, have you?

Novaheart
04-17-2011, 01:58 PM
Do you even read those MrsSmith? .

Stand by to be shocked:

Part of Fire's funding-

Lynde and Harry Bradley Foundation
The Lynde and Harry Bradley Foundation, according to The Bradley Foundation 1998 Annual Report, was giving away more than $30 million per year.[1]
Harry was one of the original charter members of the far right-wing John Birch Society, along with another Birch Society board member, Fred Koch, the father of Koch Industries billionaire brothers and owners, Charles and David Koch.[2]

MrsSmith
04-17-2011, 03:28 PM
Do you even read those MrsSmith? Do you actually research these cases, to find if they are legitimate or not? Do you say... compare the number of discrimination incidents that occur with conservative/religious events/groups/whatever to the number that occur without incident? And how do those rates stack up with rates of discrimination for other groups - is it similar, less, more? These are things you need to know, if you're going to make broad claims about general trends, one way or the other, or make claims suggesting that your own people suffer more discrimination than others.

Look, take for instance one of the line items in your list:

"Harvard University: Administration Threatened to Cancel ‘Barely Legal’ Party Due to Event’s Name"

Uhh... that's supposed to be an example of religious/conservative discrimination in academia?! I'm sure you would be similarly unimpressed if I spammed a laundry list like that from the ACLU, as evidence that blacks, or non-religious suffer unfair discrimination, en masse. Unless you're actually crunching the numbers, it doesnt matter how many items you can compile - you're just giving us meaningless anecdotes that do nothing to support your claims.

FIRE is one of the organizations fighting to maintain all free speech rights on college and university campuses. They obviously are very busy. You can choose to close you eyes to the obvious, you certainly do so on other issues. This is just one more example of the huge number of facts that you ignore. I could find a nice long list at ACLJ, too...but you'd just ignore it, also.

MrsSmith
04-17-2011, 03:33 PM
Either that, or you are an easily led idiot.

Let's look at a couple of examples from your barrage of bullshit.

Claremont University Consortium: Free Speech Silenced by Administrators
At the Claremont University Consortium in California, there were several blatant attacks on constitutionally protected free speech. At Scripps College, flyers for a "white party" were criticized by the administration and a "cultural epithet and offensive drawing on the write and wipe board of a student's room" was erased. At Harvey Mudd College, a student's message on a whiteboard "Hillary is a foxy lesbian" was erased and campus security was notified. These and several other cases highlighted by student writers on campus shed light on potential systemic violations of student speech rights at the Consortium.

What precisely do you think this demonstrates? There isn't even a claim of action, merely "criticism" and campus security being notified because someone wrote or erased something.




University of Miami: Refusal to Approve Conservative Student Group


This group was denied because there was already a campus group for Republican students, and the group was seen as duplicate and unnecessary. The policy was explained by Donna Shalala, that it was intended to prevent duplication and the dilution of limited resources but on reconsideration clearly gave preference to existing groups and discouraged new groups, so it was changed.

You haven't gone through this list, have you?

I've gone through quite a number of them. Congratulations on being able to find a couple that you can drag out and say, "These don't fit!!!!" I am SO impressed. :rolleyes::rolleyes: Just like Wil, you can deny the facts all you want, but not everyone on this board or reading this thread is as bound up in denial as you. To anyone that actually thinks through the question at hand, the obvious conclusion is that there is a major problem on college campuses, and anyone that has read Adams knows he is a leader in forcing administrations to respect the rights of those with whom they disagree.

MrsSmith
04-17-2011, 03:36 PM
Stand by to be shocked:

Part of Fire's funding-

Lynde and Harry Bradley Foundation
The Lynde and Harry Bradley Foundation, according to The Bradley Foundation 1998 Annual Report, was giving away more than $30 million per year.[1]
Harry was one of the original charter members of the far right-wing John Birch Society, along with another Birch Society board member, Fred Koch, the father of Koch Industries billionaire brothers and owners, Charles and David Koch.[2]


To be sure, the Kochs have given "more than a hundred million dollars to right wing causes" (which is their right, by the way). But in the last decade, it's also worth noting the Kochs have given more than $600 million in pledged or donated money to arts, education, and medical research, including (but not limited to):

New York-Presbyterian Hospital Weill Cornell: $15 million

M.D. Anderson Cancer Center: $25 million

The Hospital for Special Surgery: $26 million

Memorial Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center: $30 million

Prostate Cancer Foundation: $41 million

Deerfield Academy: $68 million

Lincoln Center's NY State Theater: $100 million

Massachusetts Institute of Technology: $139 million
http://www.politicsdaily.com/2010/09/02/koch-brothers-give-more-to-charity-than-to-right-wing-causes/


I suppose these places are all right-wing whacko groups? I'm sure you wouldn't want to "take a chance" on any cancer treatments that may have been assisted by the Koch Brothers, right? Or any technology that may have come out of MIT? :D:D:D

Rockntractor
04-17-2011, 03:39 PM
I've gone through quite a number of them. Congratulations on being able to find a couple that you can drag out and say, "These don't fit!!!!" I am SO impressed. :rolleyes::rolleyes: Just like Wil, you can deny the facts all you want, but not everyone on this board or reading this thread is as bound up in denial as you. To anyone that actually thinks through the question at hand, the obvious conclusion is that there is a major problem on college campuses, and anyone that has read Adams knows he is a leader in forcing administrations to respect the rights of those with whom they disagree.

There are seldom any surprises with Nova and Wilbur.

MrsSmith
04-17-2011, 03:50 PM
There are seldom any surprises with Nova and Wilbur.
Well, let's be charitable and see if there is an apology for the name calling...that would be a surprise! :D:D

wilbur
04-17-2011, 04:43 PM
FIRE is one of the organizations fighting to maintain all free speech rights on college and university campuses. They obviously are very busy. You can choose to close you eyes to the obvious, you certainly do so on other issues. This is just one more example of the huge number of facts that you ignore. I could find a nice long list at ACLJ, too...but you'd just ignore it, also.

Sure they are busy - there are ALOT of colleges in this country.... and ALOT of conservative/Christian students attending those colleges. Am I or anyone else here denying that there are incidents where Christians or conservatives are unfairly discriminated against on some college campuses? Not at all.

But you are just woefully oblivious to the fact that anecdotes can't prove the rule. Christians/Conservatives *may* suffer genuine discrimination at higher rates than other groups on college campuses, or they might not. But you've provided no information which can even come close to establishing either claim. None. Nadda. You've absolutely not a shred of real data with which to support this Christian persecution in academia pity party that you go on and on about all the time.

A place to start would be to compile lists of all grievances and lawsuits brought against universities, then you would need to sort them by demographic - black, women, gay, left-wing, conservative, religious, etc, and crunch some numbers to find out who really gets discriminated against the most. Till then, you haven't a single shred of credible evidence with which to make the claims that you make.

Hey, maybe someone even did all that work already, but I'm pretty sure you've never bothered to look for it.

About the only thing which your list provides evidence of, is what sources you choose to consume information from, and with which causes you identify.

MrsSmith
04-17-2011, 07:10 PM
Sure they are busy - there are ALOT of colleges in this country.... and ALOT of conservative/Christian students attending those colleges. Am I or anyone else here denying that there are incidents where Christians or conservatives are unfairly discriminated against on some college campuses? Not at all.

But you are just woefully oblivious to the fact that anecdotes can't prove the rule. Christians/Conservatives *may* suffer genuine discrimination at higher rates than other groups on college campuses, or they might not. But you've provided no information which can even come close to establishing either claim. None. Nadda. You've absolutely not a shred of real data with which to support this Christian persecution in academia pity party that you go on and on about all the time.

A place to start would be to compile lists of all grievances and lawsuits brought against universities, then you would need to sort them by demographic - black, women, gay, left-wing, conservative, religious, etc, and crunch some numbers to find out who really gets discriminated against the most. Till then, you haven't a single shred of credible evidence with which to make the claims that you make.

Hey, maybe someone even did all that work already, but I'm pretty sure you've never bothered to look for it.

About the only thing which your list provides evidence of, is what sources you choose to consume information from, and with which causes you identify.

I'm not terribly worried about providing you an airtight case. I've done that on another subject, and you still don't "get it."

In fact, I'm not worried about presenting an airtight case on this subject at all because every Christian who has gone through any college classes has probably run in to several instances. Christian parents hear it from their children. And a lot of us follow the news articles and columns written about the various incidents of Christian discrimination and silencing of conservative view points. If there are any Christians in this country that haven't already experienced it, it's just a matter of time before they do. Of those parents that I know personally that have kids in or through college, not one single kid made it through without having to learn how to shut up and parrot back what the instructor wanted in some classes, regardless of the facts behind the viewpoints.

The flat fact is that colleges have been making this case against themselves for years now, which is why we have multiple organizations involved in protecting conservative kids on campus.

The only people that don't see this are those that agree with the far-left outlook of most colleges, or those that choose to ignore the clear evidence.

Anyone that chooses can look up a lot more cases at sites like the ACLJ or ADF...or they can actually read the columns and books Mike Adams has written.

Welcome to the Ivory Tower of Babel: Confessions of a Conservative College Professor (http://www.amazon.com/Welcome-Ivory-Tower-Babel-Conservative/dp/1891799177/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1303081555&sr=8-4)

Feminists Say the Darndest Things: A Politically Incorrect Professor Confronts "Womyn" on Campus (http://www.amazon.com/Feminists-Say-Darndest-Things-Politically/dp/B001BSQNCE/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1303081555&sr=8-1)

http://townhall.com/columnists/mikeadams/

:D:D

wilbur
04-17-2011, 11:27 PM
I'm not terribly worried about providing you an airtight case. I've done that on another subject, and you still don't "get it."

In fact, I'm not worried about presenting an airtight case on this subject at all because every Christian who has gone through any college classes has probably run in to several instances. Christian parents hear it from their children. And a lot of us follow the news articles and columns written about the various incidents of Christian discrimination and silencing of conservative view points.

Well, that's kinda the issue, isn't it? You aren't doing any real study to find the real prevalence of these sorts of incidents - you're just absorbing anecdote after anecdote by scouring sources who have interests in reporting these sorts of things. But you aren't looking for instances of racism, or discrimination against other political views, or other religious beliefs, etc. So you can't really say if discrimination against conservatives is above the norm, or even how prevalent it is.

You don't even rise to the level of having *any* case here, much less an airtight one.


If there are any Christians in this country that haven't already experienced it, it's just a matter of time before they do. Of those parents that I know personally that have kids in or through college, not one single kid made it through without having to learn how to shut up and parrot back what the instructor wanted in some classes, regardless of the facts behind the viewpoints.

Pretty much every single person who has strong opinions on some issue - especially controversial ones - will not make it through college, work, life, etc without having to do the same. There's simply nothing remarkable there.


The flat fact is that colleges have been making this case against themselves for years now, which is why we have multiple organizations involved in protecting conservative kids on campus.

Translation: I've been intently scouring the news for incidents where conservatives/Christians get maligned on campus - therefore, schools unfairly discriminate against my people and nobody else.



The only people that don't see this are those that agree with the far-left outlook of most colleges, or those that choose to ignore the clear evidence.

Anyone that chooses can look up a lot more cases at sites like the ACLJ or ADF...or they can actually read the columns and books Mike Adams has written.


Yea, if Mike Adams says it, it must be true. I've read his columns... needless to say, he hasnt really impressed me with much.

You ever heard of the "hostile media bias"? Well, they've studied people who hold strong opinions, and showed them the same news content... and they've found that people from opposing ideologies tend to rate the same news content as biased against their views. I wouldnt be surprised if something similar tends to happen in colleges. I bumped into more than one angsty conservative (or liberal) in my days, railing against allegedly biased professors who really gave rather objective, factual lectures, which merely didnt favor their own opinions.