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CaughtintheMiddle1990
04-11-2011, 04:30 PM
A couple of questions for my CU friends--

1) Is a Trump run really on the table--is he serious about a run in 2012?

2) If he did run, would you vote for him?

I have to say, I know several people already who have said they'd vote for him, and not just because he's "Donald Trump"--the brand name--but because he's a businessmen. My mother, who usually votes Democraic and is a generally Liberal person (she voted Dem in '92, '96, GOP in 2000 and Dem in 2004) has said she'd vote for Trump because he's a "straight shooter" and wouldn't take any crap from anyone and he'd actually be on top of things, unlike Obama.

I have to say--At times, I have often considered that we should have someone who was a businessman or at least truly worked in the private sector in the White House. I mean for the large part, since Eisenhower, most of the Presidents were either Lawyers or Senators. I think the last President who knew what ordinary American, middle class life was was Truman--He had several businesses, failed on his own, then suceeded on his own--He wasn't a Harvard lawyer or the son of a President but a self made man, and there is a part of me which feels a man like that--a self made man, who has known immense struggle, whose known what it's like to fail, and to succeed, whose worked in business--could be a good President.

My only worry on that is that someone who was formerly a CEO would kind of pander to the corporate interests of this country a bit too much--I do feel regulation on businesses are needed.

I'm really so conflicted to be frank with you. I consider myself a Liberal but I try to frame the present through the past. I'm 20, and throughout the course of my life, outside of Obama, there wasn't really a truly Liberal President. Regardless of what Clinton's personal views were and what role the GOP congress played, in the end of his term of office, the government was smaller; Welfare as it had existed for decades was kaput; the size of the federal government had shrunk. But there was prosperity, just as there was under Reagan in the '80s, Coolidge in the '20s.

However, I look at the other side and see that the economy began to rebound from the Depression under FDR and Truman---And their Presidencies made America into the premier player on the world stage that it remains today. We went from being one of several superpowers to being one against the USSR. Similarly, TR and Wilson took us from being just another country to being a major player on the world stage, a voice that was listened to by other nations. I mean there has to be a reason why people kept re-electing FDR. I look at their policies and Presidencies and see short term struggle which is punctuated with long term success. The period from 1945 until 1973 is generally called the "Golden Age of Capitalism" for America due to a general period of prosperity.

On the other hand, I look at Presidents who governed as Conservatives, or Centrists--Harding, Coolidge, Eisenhower, Kennedy, Reagan, Bush I and Clinton--and see a common factor: All of their terms of office led to great prosperity during their terms and for a few years after, but the economy went into a slump not long after. For example, the 1920s was a time of great prosperity economically, but just months after Coolidge left office in 1929, we entered the Great Depression--After 8 years of the most economically Conservative presidencies of the 20th century, even more conservative than Reagan.

Similarly, when Eisenhower left office, it was in the midst of a mild recession; He had two while in office. Kennedy's tax cuts, which were put into place by LBJ after JFK's murder, made the 1960s a time of economic boom, but by the mid 1970s we entered stagflation under Gerald Ford; Reagan's term brought America out of the stagflation and the 1980s were a massive, continuous boom, but the end of his term was punctuated by the S&L Crisis and the the 1991-1992 recession under Bush I.

Similarly, under Clinton and the GOP Congress, we had an economic boom for most of the mid-late 90s, but as he left office, there came a recession and arguably his own policies in the long run caused our current economic problems.

It just seems at times like economic conservatism or moderation is GREAT for short term prosperity--massive short term prosperity--but boomerangs for whatever reason into recessions in the long run, and the opposite rings true for economically Liberal Presidents--short term pain, long term prosperity.

KhrushchevsShoe
04-11-2011, 04:42 PM
My only worry on that is that someone who was formerly a CEO would kind of pander to the corporate interests of this country a bit too much--I do feel regulation on businesses are needed..

I always say that this cant get any worse, then it does.

But, he's probably no different than anybody else who's going to run... he may even be less establishment than people from the political realm. All of his Hollywood bullshit makes him impossible to take seriously though. He's so insufferably vain that tolerating his grandstanding from a presidential platform would be painful.

Rebel Yell
04-11-2011, 05:00 PM
The best thing he has going for him is that he's not a politician. I think alot of people are really fed up politicians.

CaughtintheMiddle1990
04-11-2011, 05:10 PM
The best thing he has going for him is that he's not a politician. I think alot of people are really fed up politicians.

I get that sense too...On both sides. A lot of people of my generation are actually either A) disinterested in politics because they feel they don't really have a voice B) Dislike politics because politicians suck and are so dramatic or C) Feel utterly cynical because they feel it's rigged and/or corrupt.

rjas77
04-11-2011, 05:26 PM
Wouldn't t be a hoot for him to be able to say.

Obama...YOU'RE FIRED! :D

CueSi
04-11-2011, 05:26 PM
The best thing he has going for him is that he's not a politician. I think alot of people are really fed up politicians.

This pretty much.

~QC

Arroyo_Doble
04-11-2011, 05:35 PM
It is schtick and with no race yet, and being bored with Palin, the Media is eating it up like the ravenous eyeball sellers they are.

fettpett
04-11-2011, 05:56 PM
I think he's serious, whether I voted for him for him or not in the primaries depends on who all enters. I'd vote for him in a heart beat over the Obaidiot.

on another note, Romney announced his Presidential exploratory committee today.../yawn

Arroyo_Doble
04-11-2011, 05:59 PM
I think he's serious, whether I voted for him for him or not in the primaries depends on who all enters. I'd vote for him in a heart beat over the Obaidiot.

on another note, Romney announced his Presidential exploratory committee today.../yawn

I don't think he is running but if his is, seeing Ron Paul make him cry in the first debate would be worth watching.

If he won the nomination, it would be 1984 all over again.

fettpett
04-11-2011, 06:06 PM
I don't think he is running but if his is, seeing Ron Paul make him cry in the first debate would be worth watching.

If he won the nomination, it would be 1984 all over again.

hardly, more like 1980, with the incumbent getting his ass handed to him.

I said that I think his run is serious, not that he would get the nomination. Go watch his interview with Meridith Vera. He seems pretty damn serious.

CaughtintheMiddle1990
04-11-2011, 06:12 PM
Personally my favorite for 2012 is Romney. If he gets the nomination, I will vote for him.

Starbuck
04-11-2011, 06:29 PM
I'm an R guy and I'll vote for the R person.

I think Trump is a terrible candidate; I can't make up my mind whether he is serious.

I back Herman Cain. Businessman. Republican...etc. But I can think of several who would be satisfactory candidates.

"Who", you say? Just remember, most of us never heard of Palin before McCain picked her. I only knew the Governor of Alaska was one good looking woman, but that's all. Could not have told you her name. And I'm a guy who follows those political pundits carefully!

CaughtintheMiddle1990
04-11-2011, 06:36 PM
I'm an R guy and I'll vote for the R person.

I think Trump is a terrible candidate; I can't make up my mind whether he is serious.

I back Herman Cain. Businessman. Republican...etc. But I can think of several who would be satisfactory candidates.

"Who", you say? Just remember, most of us never heard of Palin before McCain picked her. I only knew the Governor of Alaska was one good looking woman, but that's all. Could not have told you her name. And I'm a guy who follows those political pundits carefully!

I've seen Cain speak and he's very intelligent but I don't see him as really a big threat to Obama.
I mean a lot can change in a year...But I think right now the only one who can really defeat Obama is Romney.

fettpett
04-11-2011, 06:41 PM
I've seen Cain speak and he's very intelligent but I don't see him as really a big threat to Obama.
I mean a lot can change in a year...But I think right now the only one who can really defeat Obama is Romney.

I don't believe that for a second. Romney will just be a younger version of McCain. Only reason he has the poll numbers he does is because of name recognition, hell it's the only reason why Huckabee and Trump have the numbers they do too.

Trump can't run till after his show is over on NBC, probably the reason why Huckabee hasn't announced anything either due to his show on Fox News.

Starbuck
04-11-2011, 06:51 PM
Yeah, I'm just not a Romney fan. To me, he's just another guy who has been running for President since he was 12 years old....yuk. We went through that with Clinton, Gore, Kerry, Obama.....all those guys (and Hillary) are just personally ambitious. To them politics is sort of a sport where winning is everything. It needs to be a job, not a sport.

lacarnut
04-11-2011, 06:53 PM
Romney is the worst candidate of the bunch. I will not vote for another RINO. Romney is not even a frigging Republican in my opinion.

Wei Wu Wei
04-11-2011, 06:53 PM
This is obviously a gimmick at most I see Trump joining in on the Republican-Fox News hybrid campaign machine like Sarah Palin and give commentary semi-regularly.

This is obviously just a silly thing at the level of reality television to trump up ratings and motivate the Republican base.

He's not running for president though lmao

lacarnut
04-11-2011, 07:00 PM
This is obviously a gimmick at most I see Trump joining in on the Republican-Fox News hybrid campaign machine like Sarah Palin and give commentary semi-regularly.

This is obviously just a silly thing at the level of reality television to trump up ratings and motivate the Republican base.

He's not running for president though lmao

You never know. Like Obama, he has a bloated ego and might figure that if a community organizer can become President, why not me.

FYI, Trump could not possibly f.. up the country as bad as the Magic Negro has done.

Lager
04-11-2011, 07:12 PM
Is Trump tinted orange, or is that just my TV? If he ran, it would be like a reality show everynight during the campaign, but that's what politics are turning into. Time to take it seriously again and consider serious candidates, not just ones that play well in today's media.

CaughtintheMiddle1990
04-11-2011, 07:59 PM
Romney is the worst candidate of the bunch. I will not vote for another RINO. Romney is not even a frigging Republican in my opinion.

Were Ronald Reagan and the current crop of Republicans the only "real" Republicans in history?
I mean, what were all the Republlican Presidents of the 20th century before Reagan? All just happened to be RINOs?

malloc
04-11-2011, 08:04 PM
I don't think he is running but if his is, seeing Ron Paul make him cry in the first debate would be worth watching.

If he won the nomination, it would be 1984 all over again.

I too am looking forward to that conversation. I'm an RP fan, and that's no secret, but I'm not so glamored with Paul that I think his ideas would automatically trump Trump. I don't know exactly where Trump stands on many policies, and he didn't get to where he is today by having ideas as bad as his hair.

He's got name recognition and fame, and with the right policy lines he get a whole lot of support. You never know, he might surprise us.

fettpett
04-11-2011, 08:06 PM
Were Ronald Reagan and the current crop of Republicans the only "real" Republicans in history?
I mean, what were all the Republlican Presidents of the 20th century before Reagan? All just happened to be RINOs?

Coolidge

malloc
04-11-2011, 08:14 PM
Were Ronald Reagan and the current crop of Republicans the only "real" Republicans in history?
I mean, what were all the Republlican Presidents of the 20th century before Reagan? All just happened to be RINOs?

Goldwater would have been, except the LBJ campaign effectively portrayed him as the guy who would start a nuclear war, which wasn't the case. Moderate republicans, a.k.a RINOs, attacking him as an extremist throughout the primaries certainly didn't help his general election chances either.

Lager
04-11-2011, 08:15 PM
If Trump were to win the nomination, I don't think I could take the Republican Party seriously anymore. I understand rewarding good soldiers like Bob Dole with the nomination in an election that was going to be hard to win anyway, but Obama may be beatable. This is the time for Republicans to get serious.

lacarnut
04-11-2011, 08:30 PM
Were Ronald Reagan and the current crop of Republicans the only "real" Republicans in history?
I mean, what were all the Republlican Presidents of the 20th century before Reagan? All just happened to be RINOs?

And look how both sides have screwed the country up. No energy policy for (50) fifty years. At the present rate of spending, Moody will downgrade us because of our enormous debt. Obama care will add trillions to the debt (your boy Romney started this shit). Medicare and Social Security going broke. More and more people on welfare and food stamps. Taxes will go up. Both sides have put us in this position.

We need a Repub President that will take a hatchet to spending. Romney and most of the Repubs will trim around the edges. That is it. Even Paul Ryan's cutting plan is only half (50%) of what needs to be cut.

Adam Wood
04-11-2011, 08:53 PM
I haven't been able to decide yet if Trump is serious or if he's just being an attention whore. He's talking like someone who's running for President, but then in the same breath he's saying he won't do anything until Apprentice ends. While I certainly appreciate not gigging NBC on their contract and not screwing the contestants, delaying your announcement over a TV show, especially when you have oodles of money laying around to pay any breakage fees to NBC and make the contestants plenty happy, just sounds rather un-serious to me. Add to that the fact that this is ... what? the fourth time he's publicly mused about running for President? Someone who talks about it a lot and never does it, especially someone who is not getting pressed on it like some Senator on a Sunday morning show, doesn't sound like a serious candidate to me. How many times does he cry "wolf!" before people just stop bothering with him talking about it and then don't care if he actually does get in?

Based upon the last few interviews he's had that I've seen, most particularly the Today interview last Friday, I like what he has to say about what his sort of broad policy would be: pull back from the nation-building in Afghanistan, straighten out the tax code, possibly with a flat tax, some bold ideas to get the nation manufacturing again and to turn us back into the economic superpower that we were (technically still are, but it's eroding awfully quickly), and stay the hell out of the social issues. I'm liking all of that, and I'm liking the fact that he's a businessman, most particularly a businessman who has both been successful and a failure in the past. As someone else commented to me: "if he's been bankrupt a couple of times before and he's been able to pull himself out of that to become what he is today, then imagine what he could do with a bankrupt country."



He's completely lost it with me, though, with this idiotic birther business. Not only is that the stupidest conspiracy theory out there, vastly eclipsing even the 9/11 troofers, but it's also completely and totally irrelevant. I don't want anyone for President who cannot even get his basic facts straight with regards to saying stupid shit like Obama couldn't even get a passport with a COLB. Someone who is that ignorant of basic facts and/or employs staff who are that ignorant of basic facts, and is so easily distracted by something so trivial and irrelevant just has no business being in the big chair on Pennsylvania Avenue. So long as he persists in this idiotic birther crap, I will in no way support the man.

Adam Wood
04-11-2011, 08:57 PM
And look how both sides have screwed the country up. No energy policy for (50) fifty years. At the present rate of spending, Moody will downgrade us because of our enormous debt. Obama care will add trillions to the debt (your boy Romney started this shit). Medicare and Social Security going broke. More and more people on welfare and food stamps. Taxes will go up. Both sides have put us in this position.

We need a Repub President that will take a hatchet to spending. Romney and most of the Repubs will trim around the edges. That is it. Even Paul Ryan's cutting plan is only half (50%) of what needs to be cut.Hatchet? Naw. We need someone who will take a professional logging quality chainsaw to the spending.

lacarnut
04-11-2011, 09:18 PM
Hatchet? Naw. We need someone who will take a professional logging quality chainsaw to the spending.

A chainsaw massacre would work.

Rockntractor
04-11-2011, 09:23 PM
Ohhhh Trump run, I thought it was another gay thread!:confused:

CaughtintheMiddle1990
04-11-2011, 11:13 PM
Goldwater would have been, except the LBJ campaign effectively portrayed him as the guy who would start a nuclear war, which wasn't the case. Moderate republicans, a.k.a RINOs, attacking him as an extremist throughout the primaries certainly didn't help his general election chances either.

The same "RINOs" spent a lot less than the "real" Republicans like Reagan, Bush I and Bush II did.
Under Ike, Nixon and Ford the national debt actually went down, not up. Such isn't the case from 1981-1993, or from 2001-2009.
Ike, that old RINO, also managed to produce several balanced budgets. How many did Reagan produce?

patriot45
04-11-2011, 11:50 PM
I haven't been able to decide yet if Trump is serious or if he's just being an attention whore. He's talking like someone who's running for President, but then in the same breath he's saying he won't do anything until Apprentice ends. While I certainly appreciate not gigging NBC on their contract and not screwing the contestants, delaying your announcement over a TV show, especially when you have oodles of money laying around to pay any breakage fees to NBC and make the contestants plenty happy, just sounds rather un-serious to me. Add to that the fact that this is ... what? the fourth time he's publicly mused about running for President? Someone who talks about it a lot and never does it, especially someone who is not getting pressed on it like some Senator on a Sunday morning show, doesn't sound like a serious candidate to me. How many times does he cry "wolf!" before people just stop bothering with him talking about it and then don't care if he actually does get in?

Based upon the last few interviews he's had that I've seen, most particularly the Today interview last Friday, I like what he has to say about what his sort of broad policy would be: pull back from the nation-building in Afghanistan, straighten out the tax code, possibly with a flat tax, some bold ideas to get the nation manufacturing again and to turn us back into the economic superpower that we were (technically still are, but it's eroding awfully quickly), and stay the hell out of the social issues. I'm liking all of that, and I'm liking the fact that he's a businessman, most particularly a businessman who has both been successful and a failure in the past. As someone else commented to me: "if he's been bankrupt a couple of times before and he's been able to pull himself out of that to become what he is today, then imagine what he could do with a bankrupt country."



He's completely lost it with me, though, with this idiotic birther business. Not only is that the stupidest conspiracy theory out there, vastly eclipsing even the 9/11 troofers, but it's also completely and totally irrelevant. I don't want anyone for President who cannot even get his basic facts straight with regards to saying stupid shit like Obama couldn't even get a passport with a COLB. Someone who is that ignorant of basic facts and/or employs staff who are that ignorant of basic facts, and is so easily distracted by something so trivial and irrelevant just has no business being in the big chair on Pennsylvania Avenue. So long as he persists in this idiotic birther crap, I will in no way support the man.

I agree with everything except the last paragraph! What is the freaking problem with putting this to bed with complete disclosure! Show the real BC and show the college conscreipts and its over! But the 0 spends big money keeping it all hidden!

I'm a birther!:D

Rockntractor
04-11-2011, 11:54 PM
I'm a birther!:D

How can you possibly know he wasn't born here? None of us have seen his birth certificate, until someone sees his birth certificate, how can there be birthers?:confused:

patriot45
04-11-2011, 11:56 PM
How can you possibly know he wasn't born here? None of us have seen his birth certificate, until someone sees his birth certificate, how can there be birthers?:confused:

I never actually seen myself born! :eek:
Now i'm wondering!

Rockntractor
04-12-2011, 12:01 AM
I never actually seen myself born! :eek:
Now i'm wondering!

You don't remember the slash of light, the people with white coats and masks, the boobs?:confused:

patriot45
04-12-2011, 12:06 AM
You don't remember the slash of light, the people with white coats and masks, the boobs?:confused:

Its all moot!!!

Here is the REAL bc!

Lets put it to rest now! :D

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i230/patriot45270/obfunn.jpg

Rockntractor
04-12-2011, 12:09 AM
Its all moot!!!

Here is the REAL bc!

Lets put it to rest now! :D

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i230/patriot45270/obfunn.jpg

OMG Ginger won't like this when she finds out there is a clown in charge!

Adam Wood
04-12-2011, 09:31 AM
I agree with everything except the last paragraph! What is the freaking problem with putting this to bed with complete disclosure!We've already had complete disclosure. Obama has provided what Hawaii provides as proof of birth in that state. Anyone who attempts to proclaim that this COLB is somehow not proof that he was born in Hawaii makes themselves out to be in the ranks of the stupidest motherfuckers on the planet.

Show the real BC and show the college conscreipts and its over! But the 0 spends big money keeping it all hidden!Hawaii law is crystal clear about this. You get the COLB. Period. NO ONE sees the original that is kept on file. That's been the law since 1977.

And you cannot document one single cent that Barack Obama has spent "keeping it hidden." Not one thin red cent. That's just a bald-faced lie that Jerome Corsi wants you to believe. Hint: Jerome Corsi is not in any way credible in his claims. Anyone who believes what he has to say does themselves a disservice.



I'm a birther!:DThen you're a complete fool, willfully and intentionally ignorant of the facts because you're soooooo wrapped up in denial that you have deluded yourself just as much as the BDS sufferers and the deranged moonbats who slobber and growl at the mention of the name "Palin."




There's all sorts of things Obama has not been forthcoming about here in "the most transparent administration ever:" what he did in college, his time with the Harvard Law Review, who wrote his books with him, and so forth. The list is endless. Where and when he was born is simply not at question, though. That is absolutely, positively settled beyond any shadow of any doubt whatsoever. No actual rational person can look at the records made available and come to any conclusion other than that Obama was indeed born in Hawaii in 1961. Those who come to some other conclusion simply are irrational fools.

Adam Wood
04-12-2011, 09:34 AM
How can you possibly know he wasn't born here? None of us have seen his birth certificate, until someone sees his birth certificate, how can there be birthers?:confused:You have seen what Hawaiian law provides, which is perfectly acceptable to obtain a drivers' license or, more importantly, a passport: the absolute final-say document in the world for establishing someone's citizenship.





Here's a question for you birther kooks: what, exactly, do you think you will somehow discover by seeing the alleged "original" birth certificate (something which not a single one of you can produce)?

fettpett
04-12-2011, 09:34 AM
We've already had complete disclosure. Obama has provided what Hawaii provides as proof of birth in that state. Anyone who attempts to proclaim that this COLB is somehow not proof that he was born in Hawaii makes themselves out to be in the ranks of the stupidest motherfuckers on the planet.
Hawaii law is crystal clear about this. You get the COLB. Period. NO ONE sees the original that is kept on file. That's been the law since 1977.

And you cannot document one single cent that Barack Obama has spent "keeping it hidden." Not one thin red cent. That's just a bald-faced lie that Jerome Corsi wants you to believe. Hint: Jerome Corsi is not in any way credible in his claims. Anyone who believes what he has to say does themselves a disservice.


Then you're a complete fool, willfully and intentionally ignorant of the facts because you're soooooo wrapped up in denial that you have deluded yourself just as much as the BDS sufferers and the deranged moonbats who slobber and growl at the mention of the name "Palin."




There's all sorts of things Obama has not been forthcoming about here in "the most transparent administration ever:" what he did in college, his time with the Harvard Law Review, who wrote his books with him, and so forth. The list is endless. Where and when he was born is simply not at question, though. That is absolutely, positively settled beyond any shadow of any doubt whatsoever. No actual rational person can look at the records made available and come to any conclusion other than that Obama was indeed born in Hawaii in 1961. Those who come to some other conclusion simply are irrational fools.

it might be the law, but it's not like that law can't be changed, it's quite dumb not to release copies of the original Birth Certificate for anyone in any state

Adam Wood
04-12-2011, 09:42 AM
it might be the law, but it's not like that law can't be changed, it's quite dumb not to release copies of the original Birth Certificate for anyone in any stateYou will not find a single state in the union that will release an original birth certificate. Not one.


ETA: "Copies of." Missed that. That's what has been released: a copy of his birth record.

And round and round we go. Now you'll claim that's not an actual copy, and I'll point out that yes, it is an actual copy, and then you'll claim that it isn't, and so forth.

fettpett
04-12-2011, 09:49 AM
You will not find a single state in the union that will release an original birth certificate. Not one.


ETA: "Copies of." Missed that. That's what has been released: a copy of his birth record.

And round and round we go. Now you'll claim that's not an actual copy, and I'll point out that yes, it is an actual copy, and then you'll claim that it isn't, and so forth.

not from me, frankly i couldn't care less about his BC or COLB, I'm more interested in if he gave up his citizenship when his stepdad moved the family to Indonesia and used that to get into Columbia.

Arroyo_Doble
04-12-2011, 09:52 AM
not from me, frankly i couldn't care less about his BC or COLB, I'm more interested in if he gave up his citizenship when his stepdad moved the family to Indonesia and used that to get into Columbia.

How can a person who isn't an imancipated adult give up their citizenship?

fettpett
04-12-2011, 09:53 AM
How can a person who isn't an imancipated adult give up their citizenship?

It was Indonesian law at the time and something with his dad.

Arroyo_Doble
04-12-2011, 09:57 AM
It was Indonesian law at the time and something with his dad.

That's rather vague.

fettpett
04-12-2011, 10:13 AM
That's rather vague.

cuz i was in the middle of doing something else at the time and couldn't look it up.

http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=72656

http://www.wnd.com/images/ObamaIndonesia.jpg

Arroyo_Doble
04-12-2011, 10:19 AM
cuz i was in the middle of doing something else at the time and couldn't look it up.

http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=72656

http://www.wnd.com/images/ObamaIndonesia.jpg

That's pretty thin. I am still not sure how a child can give up his or her United States citizenship.

This was funny, though:


In the picture, Obama is registered under the name Barry Soetoro by his stepfather, Lolo Soetoro. The school card lists Barry Soetoro as a Indonesian citizen born Aug. 4, 1961, in Honolulu, Hawaii. His religion is listed as Muslim.

fettpett
04-12-2011, 10:44 AM
That's pretty thin. I am still not sure how a child can give up his or her United States citizenship.

This was funny, though:


In the picture, Obama is registered under the name Barry Soetoro by his stepfather, Lolo Soetoro. The school card lists Barry Soetoro as a Indonesian citizen born Aug. 4, 1961, in Honolulu, Hawaii. His religion is listed as Muslim.

he's never disputed it, and there is some suggestion that he used his Indonesian citizenship to get into Columbia, he would have been a Dual Citizen until he was 18 then had a choice between there and the US. But like I said, where he was born isn't so much the issue with me as is the Indonesian citizen issue

Adam Wood
04-12-2011, 11:42 AM
he's never disputed it, and there is some suggestion that he used his Indonesian citizenship to get into Columbia, he would have been a Dual Citizen until he was 18 then had a choice between there and the US. But like I said, where he was born isn't so much the issue with me as is the Indonesian citizen issueWell, OK, but it's still irrelevant as to whether or not he meets the Constitutional requirements for the Presidency: natural-born and over age 35.

Indonesian law has no effect in the United States. It matters not one whit if Indonesian law did not recognize dual citizenship. The only way possible for Obama to have "given up" his citizenship would have been to walk into the embassy in Denpesar and hand over his passport and sign a formal declaration that he was renouncing his citizenship, and as an unemancipated minor at the time, it would not have been possible to do that. Even if he formally took Indonesian citizenship, that does not disqualify him from the Presidency: there's nothing in the Constitution whatsoever that says that Presidents may not be dual-citizens, only that they have to be natural-born US citizens.

He may have done something shady and/or underhanded to get into Columbia by claiming foreign national status to get a scholarship or some set-aside preferential entry or whatever, and if so, that's yet another black mark for him and certainly telling about his character, but: a.) it's hardly like we don't already know that his character is pretty seriously lacking anyway, and; b.) it doesn't have any practical effect upon anything, any more than the Kennedy clan using their family influence to get Teddy into schools and such.

fettpett
04-12-2011, 12:15 PM
Well, OK, but it's still irrelevant as to whether or not he meets the Constitutional requirements for the Presidency: natural-born and over age 35.

Indonesian law has no effect in the United States. It matters not one whit if Indonesian law did not recognize dual citizenship. The only way possible for Obama to have "given up" his citizenship would have been to walk into the embassy in Denpesar and hand over his passport and sign a formal declaration that he was renouncing his citizenship, and as an unemancipated minor at the time, it would not have been possible to do that. Even if he formally took Indonesian citizenship, that does not disqualify him from the Presidency: there's nothing in the Constitution whatsoever that says that Presidents may not be dual-citizens, only that they have to be natural-born US citizens.

He may have done something shady and/or underhanded to get into Columbia by claiming foreign national status to get a scholarship or some set-aside preferential entry or whatever, and if so, that's yet another black mark for him and certainly telling about his character, but: a.) it's hardly like we don't already know that his character is pretty seriously lacking anyway, and; b.) it doesn't have any practical effect upon anything, any more than the Kennedy clan using their family influence to get Teddy into schools and such.

I'm not saying that he'd be barred from being eligible, just that his past records are at issue and what he used to get into college, and why is he hiding them. Every President in recent history has released records before they ran for Pres except him.

I think that the only real reason why his BC is even an issue was because he spent 10ish years in the IL and US Senates and didn't give them his BC like he was suppose too then fought the issue when running for President.

Adam Wood
04-12-2011, 12:27 PM
I'm not saying that he'd be barred from being eligible, just that his past records are at issue and what he used to get into college, and why is he hiding them. Every President in recent history has released records before they ran for Pres except him.

I think that the only real reason why his BC is even an issue was because he spent 10ish years in the IL and US Senates and didn't give them his BC like he was suppose too then fought the issue when running for President.I've had people say this to me several times, and yet I can never get any sort of citation or backup on this. Do you have a link somewhere? It's something I would like to find out more about.

fettpett
04-12-2011, 01:11 PM
I've had people say this to me several times, and yet I can never get any sort of citation or backup on this. Do you have a link somewhere? It's something I would like to find out more about.

I couldn't find a link about it, I heard it 3rd party and failed to get a link from my buddy (but at the time I wasn't near a computer nor really cared)

however I did find this story from 2004

http://web.archive.org/web/20040627142700/eastandard.net/headlines/news26060403.htm

Kenyan-born Obama all set for US Senate
Kenyan-born US Senate hopeful, Barrack Obama, appeared set to take over the Illinois Senate seat after his main rival, Jack Ryan, dropped out of the race on Friday night amid a furor over lurid sex club allegations.

Arroyo_Doble
04-12-2011, 01:16 PM
I couldn't find a link about it, I heard it 3rd party and failed to get a link from my buddy (but at the time I wasn't near a computer nor really cared)

however I did find this story from 2004

http://web.archive.org/web/20040627142700/eastandard.net/headlines/news26060403.htm

I believe that is a hoax.

Snopes (http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/birthers/ap.asp)

fettpett
04-12-2011, 01:20 PM
I believe that is a hoax.

Snopes (http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/birthers/ap.asp)

ah, first time i'd seen it