PDA

View Full Version : Market tanks with debt downgrade



linda22003
04-18-2011, 10:05 AM
This morning, S&P downgraded the US debt from "stable" to "negative". The market is already down over 200 points. :mad:

Gingersnap
04-18-2011, 10:18 AM
Well, that's certainly cheerful news. :mad:

linda22003
04-18-2011, 10:19 AM
Well, that's certainly cheerful news. :mad:

Now down 230. Debt has consequences. This also reflects fear that the debt limit won't be raised, I think.

Arroyo_Doble
04-18-2011, 10:34 AM
Now down 230. Debt has consequences. This also reflects fear that the debt limit won't be raised, I think.

I think it has more to do with the concern that nothing will happen until after the 2012 election.

linda22003
04-18-2011, 11:06 AM
Down 242 at the last shuddering glance. We're about to go back into the 11,000s. :mad:

Speedy
04-18-2011, 11:11 AM
Down 242 at the last shuddering glance. We're about to go back into the 11,000s. :mad:

10,000s or high 9000s by the end of the week. Especially if President Clueless comes out with a "major" speech.

Arroyo_Doble
04-18-2011, 11:11 AM
Congress probably shouldn't have released that report showing the culpability of Standard & Poor in the collapse of 2008.

lacarnut
04-18-2011, 12:47 PM
Just wait till our bond rating gets lowered; that is when the shit is really going to hit the fan. Good to be in gold and silver.

Chopper Ben will just crank up the printing press and QE3 will be on its way after QE2 expires in June. The stock market loves this and will keep going up as long as their is plenty of money floating around.

fettpett
04-18-2011, 02:09 PM
they reaffirmed our AAA rating though

Odysseus
04-18-2011, 03:48 PM
I think it has more to do with the concern that nothing will happen until after the 2012 election.
Or that we will be stuck with Obama until then.

Just wait till our bond rating gets lowered; that is when the shit is really going to hit the fan. Good to be in gold and silver.

Chopper Ben will just crank up the printing press and QE3 will be on its way after QE2 expires in June. The stock market loves this and will keep going up as long as their is plenty of money floating around.

A few more months of this and it will be better to be in copper-jacketed lead.

Arroyo_Doble
04-18-2011, 03:49 PM
Or that we will be stuck with Obama until then.

So you are saying the ratings agency is acting politically?

Not surprising if they did. These are the same guys that called all that subprime junk AAA. Not sure why we should listen to them now.

Odysseus
04-18-2011, 04:14 PM
So you are saying the ratings agency is acting politically?

Not surprising if they did. These are the same guys that called all that subprime junk AAA. Not sure why we should listen to them now.

No, I am saying that they are reacting to the political climate. If the policies of the administration are ruining the credit of the United States, then another year and a half of that administration would clearly be an indicator that the worst is yet to come.

Arroyo_Doble
04-18-2011, 04:23 PM
No, I am saying that they are reacting to the political climate. If the policies of the administration are ruining the credit of the United States, then another year and a half of that administration would clearly be an indicator that the worst is yet to come.

The Executive Branch is not the only player in the fiscal game. It is not even the most important one.

lacarnut
04-18-2011, 04:32 PM
So you are saying the ratings agency is acting politically?

Not surprising if they did. These are the same guys that called all that subprime junk AAA. Not sure why we should listen to them now.

Not important if you listen to them; that is past history. Plus, investors are looking forward rather than backwards. Obama has piled on an excessive amount of debt. That is why gold, silver and other commodities are going thru the roof. The dollar is losing its value. Capiche.

I don't look for the market to tank but I do see debt and inflation encroaching on our standard of living. S&P and Moody will just confirm that reality if our politicians do not rein in spending. The message from the S & P was a warning rather than any action they will take at the present time.

lacarnut
04-18-2011, 04:38 PM
The Executive Branch is not the only player in the fiscal game. It is not even the most important one.

Chopper Ben is playing Obama's tune.

Rockntractor
04-18-2011, 05:54 PM
All that I have left is a few shares of XM, I am really glad we pulled our money out of the market when it peaked again and applied it to the mortgage.
In a year and a half the house will be payed for.

malloc
04-18-2011, 06:17 PM
These are the same guys that called all that subprime junk AAA. Not sure why we should listen to them now.

Not quite. Subprime is subprime, sub-A is sub-A. The purpose of a security is to sprinkle these high-risk, high yield assets into a mix with more stable assets, and pile on some sort of risk insurance. FNM and FMCC had good track records leading into this crisis, track records which can only be achieved by a company who has an unchecked line of credit with the treasury and is allowed to turn it's private securities into 'debts owed by the U.S. Government' with the wave a magic wand. S&P and other ratings agencies had no reason to believe the securities were being increasingly laden with increasingly higher risk loans disguised as creative mortgage products; all in the name of universal home ownership of course.


The Executive Branch is not the only player in the fiscal game. It is not even the most important one.

This comment would have a lot more weight if anyone were talking about the fiscal game, but we aren't, we are talking about the investment game. Investment requires speculation, and the willingness to take on risk. With the currency (not wealth) supply expanding, the U.S. Government spending itself into more debt than it can handle, and progressives in office refusing to face reality, investment is getting too risky. An investor has to guess if their gains, minus tax, will net more than inflation. They have to guess whether or not demand for the debt they are buying will rise. More and more investors will back their wealth out the longer this country goes without real leadership and real plans in place to reduce the debt, the over-expanded currency supply, and remove bars to private sector growth. These are things this administration has adamantly refused to cooperate with anyone on. When fiscal reality is brought up, Obama basically sticks his fingers in his ears and yells, "NAH, NAH, NAH" until the reality is removed from his sight. Investors aren't going to commit their resources with the hope of growth with that kind of head-in-the-sand leadership, would you?

Arroyo_Doble
04-19-2011, 09:59 AM
No, I am saying that they are reacting to the political climate. If the policies of the administration are ruining the credit of the United States, then another year and a half of that administration would clearly be an indicator that the worst is yet to come.


The Executive Branch is not the only player in the fiscal game. It is not even the most important one.


This comment would have a lot more weight if anyone were talking about the fiscal game, but we aren't ....

I think we were.

Starbuck
04-19-2011, 11:32 AM
All that I have left is a few shares of XM, I am really glad we pulled our money out of the market when it peaked again and applied it to the mortgage.
In a year and a half the house will be payed for.

That's smart. Pulling out when the going is easy is....well, hard. And many people will encourage you not to pay for your home completely.

But I'm more in your camp. You can get back into the market when it is easier for you. AND you can learn how to make money without much risk if you put your mind to it.
There will always be someone who is cleaning up and waving his paper work around. I listened to it as all those people 'cleaned up' in the dot com craze, 'flipped' houses during the housing bubble, and 'used leverage' to maximize returns during the bull market of 07.

The thing is, every one of those people were right for a while, but only for a while.

I remember when almost every one I knew 'beat' Warren Buffet.:)

lacarnut
04-19-2011, 12:21 PM
All that I have left is a few shares of XM, I am really glad we pulled our money out of the market when it peaked again and applied it to the mortgage.
In a year and a half the house will be payed for.

Without any debt, it is like a mountain has been lifted off your shoulders. It is a great feeling especially when you no longer have a mortgage payment. You will feel rich with all that extra money left over each month.

Pulpfishin
04-19-2011, 01:53 PM
All that I have left is a few shares of XM, I am really glad we pulled our money out of the market when it peaked again and applied it to the mortgage.
In a year and a half the house will be payed for.

I did the same.
We paid off everything and put $82K in physical silver @ $18.47 an ounce (spot plus premium) almost a year ago.

I pulled roughly $163K out of the market and it's now worth over $190K and we are debt free.

Silver still has a long way to go before it peaks!

lacarnut
04-19-2011, 05:49 PM
I did the same.
We paid off everything and put $82K in physical silver @ $18.47 an ounce (spot plus premium) almost a year ago.

I pulled roughly $163K out of the market and it's now worth over $190K and we are debt free.

Silver still has a long way to go before it peaks!

I inherited my dads coin collection 2 1/2 years ago, and since then have purchased twice as much as he had. Best move I ever made as the price of silver has tripled. Stopped buying junk silver when it reached the $16 mark, and started buying silver Panda and Koala 5 ounce and Kilo coins. Now I am looking for coin sets with low mintage.

I would like to see silver and gold pull back around 20% so that I could buy more. Prices are too high. However, both are going much higher as long as Helicopter Ben keeps printing money.