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View Full Version : EPA Rules Force Shell to Abandon Oil Drilling Plans



djones520
04-25-2011, 10:08 AM
Shell Oil Company has announced it must scrap efforts to drill for oil this summer in the Arctic Ocean off the northern coast of Alaska. The decision comes following a ruling by the EPA’s Environmental Appeals Board to withhold critical air permits. The move has angered some in Congress and triggered a flurry of legislation aimed at stripping the EPA of its oil drilling oversight.

Shell has spent five years and nearly $4 billion dollars on plans to explore for oil in the Beaufort and Chukchi Seas. The leases alone cost $2.2 billion. Shell Vice President Pete Slaiby says obtaining similar air permits for a drilling operation in the Gulf of Mexico would take about 45 days. He’s especially frustrated over the appeal board’s suggestion that the Arctic drill would somehow be hazardous for the people who live in the area. “We think the issues were really not major,” Slaiby said, “and clearly not impactful for the communities we work in.”

The closest village to where Shell proposed to drill is Kaktovik, Alaska. It is one of the most remote places in the United States. According to the latest census, the population is 245 and nearly all of the residents are Alaska natives. The village, which is 1 square mile, sits right along the shores of the Beaufort Sea, 70 miles away from the proposed off-shore drill site.

The EPA’s appeals board ruled that Shell had not taken into consideration emissions from an ice-breaking vessel when calculating overall greenhouse gas emissions from the project. Environmental groups were thrilled by the ruling.

“What the modeling showed was in communities like Kaktovik, Shell’s drilling would increase air pollution levels close to air quality standards,” said Eric Grafe, Earthjustice’s lead attorney on the case. Earthjustice was joined by Center for Biological Diversity and the Alaska Wilderness League in challenging the air permits.



http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/04/25/energy-america-oil-drilling-denial/

So... with record gas prices, the EPA blocks what could be a source of billions of barrels of oil because 245 people MIGHT have air pollution CLOSE to quality standards. Whiskey Tango Foxtrot. :mad:

KhrushchevsShoe
04-25-2011, 10:23 AM
Oh no! The poor energy companies!

NJCardFan
04-25-2011, 10:48 AM
Oh no! The poor energy companies!

You are such an incredible idiot. Your ilk is crying bloody murder over gas prices and that we are to dependent on foreign oil, and yet, don't want to drill for our own. This is the mindset of your ilk. We have enough oil within our own borders to sustain us for decades but noooo, your ilk would rather tear this country apart. Why don't you move to Cuba already.

namvet
04-25-2011, 11:23 AM
http://oi54.tinypic.com/m9r4no.jpg

stop it.......stop that damned drilling now !!!!

Shell Oil Company has announced it must scrap efforts to drill for oil this summer in the Arctic Ocean off the northern coast of Alaska. The decision comes following a ruling by the EPA’s Environmental Appeals Board to withhold critical air permits. The move has angered some in Congress and triggered a flurry of legislation aimed at stripping the EPA of its oil drilling oversight.

Shell has spent five years and nearly $4 billion dollars on plans to explore for oil in the Beaufort and Chukchi Seas. The leases alone cost $2.2 billion. Shell Vice President Pete Slaiby says obtaining similar air permits for a drilling operation in the Gulf of Mexico would take about 45 days. He’s especially frustrated over the appeal board’s suggestion that the Arctic drill would somehow be hazardous for the people who live in the area. “We think the issues were really not major,” Slaiby said, “and clearly not impactful for the communities we work in.”

FOX (http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/04/25/energy-america-oil-drilling-denial/)

we're facing up to 5 or 6 bucks a gal by the end of the summer. lets hear for the dems partner in crime

linda22003
04-25-2011, 11:26 AM
Once again, we shoot ourselves in the foot. :rolleyes:

namvet
04-25-2011, 11:31 AM
Once again, we shoot ourselves in the foot. :rolleyes:

no. our incompetents we voted for are shooting us

djones520
04-25-2011, 11:35 AM
no. our incompetents we voted for are shooting us

That's exactly what she said. We shoot ourselves in the foot.

namvet
04-25-2011, 11:43 AM
That's exactly what she said. We shoot ourselves in the foot.

and many of them promised lower prices. so they're off the hook????

fettpett
04-25-2011, 11:48 AM
and many of them promised lower prices. so they're off the hook????

nope, the GOP needs to get their heads out of their asses and pull the EPA in to find out why they are doing this shit and then get some changes in that limits their power in stopping drilling.

djones520
04-25-2011, 11:50 AM
nope, the GOP needs to get their heads out of their asses and pull the EPA in to find out why they are doing this shit and then get some changes in that limits their power in stopping drilling.

The story I linked says their doing that now.

namvet
04-25-2011, 11:52 AM
in theory thats great. in the real world its a pipe dream

AmPat
04-25-2011, 12:05 PM
You are such an incredible idiot. Your ilk is crying bloody murder over gas prices and that we are to dependent on foreign oil, and yet, don't want to drill for our own. This is the mindset of your ilk. We have enough oil within our own borders to sustain us for decades but noooo, your ilk would rather tear this country apart. Why don't you move to Cuba already.

His "ilk" is OK with the prices under O Blah Blah, his king and God. Under Bush, they were raving idiots screaming about the price of gas, even while positing their ridiculous assertion that we were fighting a war for oil.

Liberals are at their core, dishonest, lying scumbags that cannot see logic and reality if it runs counter to their ideology.

Zathras
04-25-2011, 12:18 PM
Oh no! The poor energy companies!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v602/HeroesAtWork/462.jpg

namvet
04-25-2011, 12:19 PM
Bush opened some of these reserve area's for drilling just before leaving office. couse after the king of the dip shits get's elected there all closed down. est's are we're facing 5 or 6 bucks by summers end. its almost like seeing the end of this country is in sight.

In fact, obungles seems almost giddy at becoming a customer of Brazil's new found oil
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/energy/oilandgas/8393292/Obama-says-US-to-be-major-purchaser-of-Brazilian-oil.html

While the press for the most part is giving obozo a pass on the increasing gas prices
http://www.mrc.org/bmi/articles/2011/Gas_Prices_Top_aGallon_Higher_than_Year_Ago_Media_ Dont_Blame_Obama.html

SaintLouieWoman
04-25-2011, 12:20 PM
His "ilk" is OK with the prices under O Blah Blah, his king and God. Under Bush, they were raving idiots screaming about the price of gas, even while positing their ridiculous assertion that we were fighting a war for oil.

Liberals are at their core, dishonest, lying scumbags that cannot see logic and reality if it runs counter to their ideology.

Liberals at their core are idealists with no idea of practicality. Plus the lib politicians are dishonest, lying scumbags who pull the wool over the eyes of their lib constituents. Their supporters drink the Kool-Aid.

namvet
04-25-2011, 12:22 PM
Liberals at their core are idealists with no idea of practicality. Plus the lib politicians are dishonest, lying scumbags who pull the wool over the eyes of their lib constituents. Their supporters drink the Kool-Aid.

rather see em drink a glass of gas.

fettpett
04-25-2011, 12:47 PM
The story I linked says their doing that now.

good, i just didn't read it :D LOL

SaintLouieWoman
04-25-2011, 12:54 PM
rather see em drink a glass of gas.

Yeah, that too. :D

I based my remarks on some of them that I've worked with in different volunteer "jobs" over the years. I'd work during the weekends at the Zoo, while many of the female volunteers that worked there during the week had not much to do other than play tennis, golf, and espouse their lib views. I was in the definite minority and used to fume when they'd make all their snide anti-Bush (or anti-Republican or anti-conservative) remarks. I didn't make fun of them and resented how they thought they could diss anyone else who didn't believe as they did.

Some of them might have had a lot of money, mostly unearned, but didn't have all that much class.

Novaheart
04-25-2011, 01:01 PM
His "ilk" is OK with the prices under O Blah Blah,

Who was President the one and only period of time I paid over $4 per gallon for regular?

namvet
04-25-2011, 01:01 PM
Yeah, that too. :D

I based my remarks on some of them that I've worked with in different volunteer "jobs" over the years. I'd work during the weekends at the Zoo, while many of the female volunteers that worked there during the week had not much to do other than play tennis, golf, and espouse their lib views. I was in the definite minority and used to fume when they'd make all their snide anti-Bush (or anti-Republican or anti-conservative) remarks. I didn't make fun of them and resented how they thought they could diss anyone else who didn't believe as they did.

Some of them might have had a lot of money, mostly unearned, but didn't have all that much class.

I know the type well. head up their ass's. but hey golf and tennis are far more important. :mad:

djones520
04-25-2011, 01:02 PM
Who was President the one and only period of time I paid over $4 per gallon for regular?

Obama was the President I've paid gas the one and only time over $4. $4.08 right now.

namvet
04-25-2011, 01:04 PM
Gas Prices Up and National Motor Gas Inventories Down

ABC VID (http://abcnews.go.com/Business/motor-gas-inventories-decrease-gas-prices-rise/story?id=13438587)

pyackog
04-25-2011, 01:04 PM
So... with record gas prices, the EPA blocks what could be a source of billions of barrels of oil because 245 people MIGHT have air pollution CLOSE to quality standards. Whiskey Tango Foxtrot.

Well, these are the same assholes who let firefighters get killed rather than using water that might have had a negative effect on a fish.

Novaheart
04-25-2011, 01:05 PM
Bush opened some of these reserve area's for drilling just before leaving office. couse after the king of the dip shits get's elected there all closed down. est's are we're facing 5 or 6 bucks by summers end. its almost like seeing the end of this country is in sight.


Once again AM radio rears it's head.

Novaheart
04-25-2011, 01:08 PM
Obama was the President I've paid gas the one and only time over $4. $4.08 right now.

You weren't old enough to drive in 2008 or you were out of the country?

May 21, 2008—Oil price skyrockets to $130 a barrel. Holly cow!!!

June 9, 2008—Retail gas prices rise above $4 per gallon.

June 15, 2008—Speculators continue to push the price of crude oil. Consumers begin to literally run out of gas attempting to stretch their dollar. Hybrid vehicles are becoming a hot commodity. Stories of gas stations running out of gas begins to circulate, creating greater hysteria among the public.

July 7, 2008—Crude oil prices settled-in at a new record of $147 per barrel. The U.S. average price for regular gasoline climbs to an all-time high of $4.11 per gallon. Road trip style vacations are put on hold for many summer travelers.

fettpett
04-25-2011, 01:09 PM
Who was President the one and only period of time I paid over $4 per gallon for regular?

um...and what had happened that caused prices to go up that high? oh, right 2 hurricanes in the same general area

djones520
04-25-2011, 01:14 PM
Heh... this is something everyone should look at.

Blue states are in the red on gas prices, Red states are in the blue on gas prices.

http://fuelgaugereport.aaa.com/?redirectto=http://fuelgaugereport.opisnet.com/index.asp

All the blue states are paying out of their nose for gas. Unfortunately, that's where I'm living right now. :rolleyes:

djones520
04-25-2011, 01:16 PM
You weren't old enough to drive in 2008 or you were out of the country?



I'm 26, and I drove across the country from Washington to Illinois during the peak fuel crisis, and I did not once pay more then $4.00 a gallon. I paid $4.08 the other day for gas. I literally watched as it went from $3.95 to $4.08 on the board. A $.13 jump in price.

Now, I seem to recall many people blaming the high gas prices as a major cause for the economic collapse that happened afterwards. I wonder what this is going to herald.

Arroyo_Doble
04-25-2011, 01:19 PM
I'm 26, and I drove across the country from Washington to Illinois during the peak fuel crisis, and I did not once pay more then $4.00 a gallon. I paid $4.08 the other day for gas. I literally watched as it went from $3.95 to $4.08 on the board. A $.13 jump in price.

Now, I seem to recall many people blaming the high gas prices as a major cause for the economic collapse that happened afterwards. I wonder what this is going to herald.

I know someone that swears by that. He believes we are about to see a repeat of 2008.

Novaheart
04-25-2011, 01:19 PM
um...and what had happened that caused prices to go up that high? oh, right 2 hurricanes in the same general area

Bullshit. The price of oil varied from $147 per barrel to $32 per barrel in the time frame. If you are going to blame an event, then you need to explain the impact of that event and how it raised the price and the remedy of the event which lowered the price. You can't.

I've only met one other group of people so thoroughly in denial about the conflict between their beliefs and reality as right-wingers, left-wingers.

Novaheart
04-25-2011, 01:24 PM
Heh... this is something everyone should look at.

Blue states are in the red on gas prices, Red states are in the blue on gas prices.

http://fuelgaugereport.aaa.com/?redirectto=http://fuelgaugereport.opisnet.com/index.asp

All the blue states are paying out of their nose for gas. Unfortunately, that's where I'm living right now. :rolleyes:

I read an article which said that western state gasoline prices are higher because it's a cleaner and more expensive formulation. If that's true, then it's like saying that I'm stupid for paying for Sunoco nonethanol when Imperial Hindugas and Hot Dogs charges thirty cents less per gallon.

Gas is $3.81 here in St Pete, $4.05 for nonethanol.

djones520
04-25-2011, 01:27 PM
I read an article which said that western state gasoline prices are higher because it's a cleaner and more expensive formulation. If that's true, then it's like saying that I'm stupid for paying for Sunoco nonethanol when Imperial Hindugas and Hot Dogs charges thirty cents less per gallon.

Gas is $3.81 here in St Pete, $4.05 for nonethanol.

A lot of car's can't use E85. My owners manual says I shouldn't use anything less then E87 which is regular gas. So those $3.81 prices don't mean shit.

Novaheart
04-25-2011, 01:29 PM
I know someone that swears by that. He believes we are about to see a repeat of 2008.

There is a guy on AM radio who is doom and gloom continuously. I can't understand why anyone would listen to him for hours on end, apart from the fact that like a lot of people he really needs to clear his throat and stop talking like an old chain smoking alcoholic.


Phil Grande, I think.

Arroyo_Doble
04-25-2011, 01:35 PM
There is a guy on AM radio who is doom and gloom continuously. I can't understand why anyone would listen to him for hours on end, apart from the fact that like a lot of people he really needs to clear his throat and stop talking like an old chain smoking alcoholic.


Phil Grande, I think.

AM radio is full of guys that are in a constant state of outrage. I get exhausted listening to them for ten minutes and after about twenty minutes find myself completely capable of taking another human being's life.

Novaheart
04-25-2011, 01:48 PM
A lot of car's can't use E85. My owners manual says I shouldn't use anything less then E87 which is regular gas. So those $3.81 prices don't mean shit.

I first saw 85 octane gasoline at a newly converted to Sunoco station the other day. Now you have me concerned that I may have used that thinking it was regular. So when I go back out in a few, I'll buy a half tank of premium to counteract the evil 85. Since it's a Toyota Tacoma, I'm assuming it would run on moonshine or rubbing alcohol, but I like to give Pearl (her name is Pearl) good gas because I have a lifetime warranty.

Other than the prices for this area for name-brand gasoline would be for 87.

http://www.tampagasprices.com/index.aspx?fuel=A

djones520
04-25-2011, 01:55 PM
And I meant an octane of 87, not E87. No such thing as E87. But yes, check your owners manual on that. I was pumping it into my tank when I was in florida a couple weeks ago when I saw that it had a warning sticker on the pump about it.

megimoo
04-25-2011, 02:00 PM
I first saw 85 octane gasoline at a newly converted to Sunoco station the other day. Now you have me concerned that I may have used that thinking it was regular. So when I go back out in a few, I'll buy a half tank of premium to counteract the evil 85. Since it's a Toyota Tacoma, I'm assuming it would run on moonshine or rubbing alcohol, but I like to give Pearl (her name is Pearl) good gas because I have a lifetime warranty.

Other than the prices for this area for name-brand gasoline would be for 87.

http://www.tampagasprices.com/index.aspx?fuel=AYou named your pickup pearl ?What's the matter with you,are you out to give Toyota a faggymobile bad name ?I'll bet it's pink and has fluffy pom poms hanging from the mirror ?

lacarnut
04-25-2011, 02:13 PM
Bullshit. The price of oil varied from $147 per barrel to $32 per barrel in the time frame. If you are going to blame an event, then you need to explain the impact of that event and how it raised the price and the remedy of the event which lowered the price. You can't.

I've only met one other group of people so thoroughly in denial about the conflict between their beliefs and reality as right-wingers, left-wingers.

There is a big difference between right wingers and left wingers that you do not understand. Bush and most (not all) wanted to drill offshore and in the Arctic. The opposite is true of most Democrats. Obama and liberal Democrats hate big oil and fossil fuels. They don't have a problem funding companies drilling for oil in South America. Maybe you could explain what a fucked up energy policy that is to me.

Obama sucking wind on TV about the need to decrease the debt is a joke. About half of our imbalance in trade is coming from oil that we import. He must think we are stupid. Then it is the big bad oil companies that are getting all these outrageous tax subsidies. Facts are that EXXON paid 89 billion dollars in taxes world wide. More taxes were gutted from them than any company by the IRS. Billions are paid by oil companies for oil leases. The government does not give them away and they have to be paid for every year. Their contributions to the treasury dwarf any other industry. On the other hand, GE and Obama's CEO buddy paid zero taxes. GE also EXPORTED 17,000 jobs. That just goes to show you how fucked up Obama and his administration is. Since oil companies are putting more money into the economy and hiring more people with great paying jobs you would think that at least one oil man would be on his economic team. Nope, a dipshit like Immelt does though. As an aside, Jack Welch, former CEO of GE, is pissed that this dumb ass has driven GE into the ground.

The facts are that even under Bush and high gas prices, it was NOT even close to the disastrous oil embargo under Jimmy Carter. How are those prediction of green energy professed by this fool working out for you. How old were you then? How many times did you push your car down the street to fill up hoping that they would not run out of gas before you got yours? You don't know shit, Junior and you show your ignorance about oil.

lacarnut
04-25-2011, 02:22 PM
I first saw 85 octane gasoline at a newly converted to Sunoco station the other day. Now you have me concerned that I may have used that thinking it was regular. So when I go back out in a few, I'll buy a half tank of premium to counteract the evil 85. Since it's a Toyota Tacoma, I'm assuming it would run on moonshine or rubbing alcohol, but I like to give Pearl (her name is Pearl) good gas because I have a lifetime warranty.

Other than the prices for this area for name-brand gasoline would be for 87.

http://www.tampagasprices.com/index.aspx?fuel=A

Warranties do not cover an idiot that does not do proper maintenance and follow requirements for fuel. Damn, you are a dumb ass.

Arroyo_Doble
04-25-2011, 02:29 PM
The facts are that even under Bush and high gas prices, it was NOT even close to the disastrous oil embargo under Jimmy Carter. How are those prediction of green energy professed by this fool working out for you. How old were you then? How many times did you push your car down the street to fill up hoping that they would not run out of gas before you got yours? You don't know shit, Junior and you show your ignorance about oil.

I thought the embargo was in 1973.

djones520
04-25-2011, 02:33 PM
I thought the embargo was in 1973.

You are correct. I believe Nixon was president then.

lacarnut
04-25-2011, 03:36 PM
I thought the embargo was in 1973.

You are correct. Been a while ago. He did tell us if we were cold to lower the heat temp in our home and put on a sweater. Carter was a joke. He also installed solar panels at the WH. His prediction of energy dependence in 30 to 40 has fallen flat on its face.

Pulpfishin
04-25-2011, 03:40 PM
Oh no! The poor energy companies!

Dear God,
Please let gas hit $10 a gallon so that this ignorant bastard gets blisters on his feet from walking!



When you have any ACTUAL knowledge of the EPA and oil and gas industry (not the propaganda you read) and their activities in the Arctic, feel free to comment.

I’ve set foot in ANWR 20 times over a five year period, and have 6 years of Alaskan arctic experience as an environmental manager.

The worst polluters up there are the native people themselves, and I’ve seen it first hand!

malloc
04-25-2011, 03:46 PM
Bullshit. The price of oil varied from $147 per barrel to $32 per barrel in the time frame. If you are going to blame an event, then you need to explain the impact of that event and how it raised the price and the remedy of the event which lowered the price. You can't.

I've only met one other group of people so thoroughly in denial about the conflict between their beliefs and reality as right-wingers, left-wingers.

Do you pour crude oil into your gas tank? I didn't think so.

The hurricanes had a big impact on gas prices because they closed down refineries, though I don't remember paying over $4.00 a gallon anywhere. Many of the U.S. refineries are on the Texas Gulf, and in Mississippi, Louisiana, Alabama. Progressive enviro-wackiness has ensured that no new oil refineries have opened up in the United States since the 1970's. When a hurricane shuts down half of the U.S.'s oil refinery output for any amount of time, gas prices shoot up. The remedy of the "event' that lowered the price was that slowly but surely these refineries came back online after the hurricanes had passed. This also more than explains the difference between gas prices on the West coast and East coast at that time since Californian refineries were still operating at capacity.

Does that explain the "event" that supposedly can't be explained well enough for you?

Arroyo_Doble
04-25-2011, 03:55 PM
Do you pour crude oil into your gas tank? I didn't think so.

The hurricanes had a big impact on gas prices because they closed down refineries, though I don't remember paying over $4.00 a gallon anywhere. Many of the U.S. refineries are on the Texas Gulf, and in Mississippi, Louisiana, Alabama. Progressive enviro-wackiness has ensured that no new oil refineries have opened up in the United States since the 1970's. When a hurricane shuts down half of the U.S.'s oil refinery output for any amount of time, oil prices shoot up. The remedy of the "event' that lowered the price was that slowly but surely these refineries came back online after the hurricanes had passed.

Does that explain the "event" that supposedly can't be explained well enough for you?

Consolidation and shuttering had no part in the production capacity curve?

djones520
04-25-2011, 04:01 PM
Consolidation and shuttering had no part in the production capacity curve?

I don't know what that means, but I have a general idea where you are going with it. What I do know is that in the last 30 years, our capability of refining oil has gone from 17.9 million barrels a day (1982) to 17.6 million a day (2010). Our daily demand is around 21 million barrels a day.

So we cannot meet our daily demand, and our ability to produce has dropped in that time frame. What does that say?

malloc
04-25-2011, 04:08 PM
Consolidation and shuttering had no part in the production capacity curve?

I would have thought from the context of my comment one would have deduced that the shuttering of gulf coast refineries without any alternate source of production would cause a drop in production Other than that I fail to see any argument here.

malloc
04-25-2011, 04:11 PM
I don't know what that means, but I have a general idea where you are going with it. What I do know is that in the last 30 years, our capability of refining oil has gone from 17.9 million barrels a day (1982) to 17.6 million a day (2010). Our daily demand is around 21 million barrels a day.

So we cannot meet our daily demand, and our ability to produce has dropped in that time frame. What does that say?

Yes, the demand for refined gasoline and other petroleum products far exceeds domestic production already. While that demand has been growing for decades, domestic production has not. Our refineries, according to the EIA, run at capacity and still refined fuels must be imported. More refineries in different geographic locations would have lessened the burden of importing more refined fuels or transporting refined fuels from the West coast in the aftermath of these hurricanes.

I think AD in his "super geniousnesses" is trying to build some argument around there not being enough domestic demand to support the refineries we already have, much less more refineries or some such nonsense.

Arroyo_Doble
04-25-2011, 04:17 PM
I don't know what that means, but I have a general idea where you are going with it. What I do know is that in the last 30 years, our capability of refining oil has gone from 17.9 million barrels a day (1982) to 17.6 million a day (2010). Our daily demand is around 21 million barrels a day.

So we cannot meet our daily demand, and our ability to produce has dropped in that time frame. What does that say?

That whoever bought up the excess capacity and shuttered it were geniuses.

malloc
04-25-2011, 04:27 PM
That whoever bought up the excess capacity and shuttered it were geniuses.

LOL! What a leap that was.

Now, why don't you show me where this excess capacity is?

Oh, wait. I know where it is right here! (http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/aer/txt/ptb0509.html). 85-90% utilization without a significant increase in overall output in the last 20 years! That means it's as close to full utilization as can be. (A refinery can easily lose 10% of maximum theoretical potential production a year due to maintenance, inspection, supply problems, and unforseen events, like hurricanes, etc.) Notice that this graph compares theoretical maximum utilization of oil refineries against measured utilization. Demand isn't taken into account, as it far surpasses total domestic refinery output.

Arroyo_Doble
04-25-2011, 04:38 PM
Now, why don't you show me where this excess capacity is?

It is no longer there. That is sort of the point.

In 1981, the peak of output in the United States, utilization was 68%.

malloc
04-25-2011, 04:46 PM
It is no longer there. That is sort of the point.

In 1981, the peak of output in the United States, utilization was 68%.

Yes, and why did the number of operable refineries in the U.S. drop in 1981? There were 174 more oil refineries then than there are today. You are saying that the evil oil companies closed these 174 refineries just to jack up oil prices because they are evil?

If that is not your position I'll give you a chance to correct yourself before posting real evidence of what really caused the disappearance of these refineries.

Arroyo_Doble
04-25-2011, 04:49 PM
You are saying that the evil oil companies closed these 174 refineries just to jack up oil prices because they are evil?

If that is not your position I'll give you a chance to correct yourself before posting real evidence of what really caused the disappearance of these refineries.

Do you often argue with fantasy contructs in your head?

"[E]vil"? Damn funny.

malloc
04-25-2011, 04:51 PM
Do you often argue with fantasy contructs in your head?

"[E]vil"? Damn funny.

Do you often post complete bullshit that you make up on the spot and then claim you aren't arguing any position at all when evidence mounts against your made up assumptions?

Do you often dodge questions by using this cowardly tactic?

I find this latter tactic very amusing. Especially since the question you are dodging around was is merely a simple clarification of the position you are arguing.

Arroyo_Doble
04-25-2011, 04:58 PM
.... the question you are dodging around was is merely a simple clarification of the position you are arguing.

Only in your head.

"[E]vil." Priceless.

malloc
04-25-2011, 05:05 PM
Only in your head.

"[E]vil." Priceless.

If by, "my head" you mean the entire last page of this thread.

Are you really trying to say you weren't arguing anything now? Quit dancing around like a coward and make yourself plain.

What's really priceless is it that your alligator mouth got to big for you hummingbird ass, so now in typical progressive fashion, you have to resort to this idiocy to save face. You were trying to argue that the oil companies ruined refinement output in order to maximize profits by screwing over consumers, then you backtracked when reality got in the way of your fanciful narrative. It's plain as day. I know it, you know, anyone who reads this thread knows it. Your cute little misdirection about who I'm arguing with is just that, a cute, ineffective misdirection. All this time I thought Hazlenutz was the biggest coward on this board.

Arroyo_Doble
04-25-2011, 05:13 PM
If by, "my head" you mean the entire last page of this thread.

Are you really trying to say you weren't arguing anything now? Quit dancing around like a coward and make yourself plain.

What's really priceless is it that your alligator mouth got to big for you hummingbird ass, so now in typical progressive fashion, you have to resort to this idiocy to save face. You were trying to argue that the oil companies ruined refinement output in order to maximize profits by screwing over consumers, then you backtracked when reality got in the way of your fanciful narrative. It's plain as day. I know it, you know, anyone who reads this thread knows it. Your cute little misdirection about who I'm arguing with is just that, a cute, ineffective misdirection. All this time I thought Hazlenutz was the biggest coward on this board.

Sucks that I'm not the fantasy "liberal" in your head, huh?

malloc
04-25-2011, 05:17 PM
Sucks that I'm not the fantasy "liberal" in your head, huh?

Oh, so this whole song and dance you are pulling is simply to show me that you aren't a "fantasy liberal"? What sucks is that you are exactly my mental definition of "liberal", in that you spout nonsense, and then back out when facts overpower your bullshit. Prog tolls like wei wei try to redefine the argument or move the goal posts. Hazlenutz tries to back out of the argument by name calling and flaming. You just run with your tail between your legs, leaving little droppings of quips in your wake.

That's precisely what you are doing right now. I think it's amusing how you fall so neatly into the progressive mold.

Arroyo_Doble
04-25-2011, 05:29 PM
Oh, so this whole song and dance you are pulling is simply to show me that you aren't a "fantasy liberal"? What sucks is that you are exactly my mental definition of "liberal", in that you spout nonsense, and then back out when facts overpower your bullshit. Prog tolls like wei wei try to redefine the argument or move the goal posts. Hazlenutz tries to back out of the argument by name calling and flaming. You just run with your tail between your legs, leaving little droppings of quips in your wake.


What facts? You just did the typical mean-old-hippies-crippled-Exxon-sniff-sniff schtick taking nothing else into account. And when I ask if the consolidation and shuttering of refining capacity might not be a contributing factor you go off on the "[E]vil" bit. It was like satire. At that point it is silly to even discuss margins in the refining industry in the 90's or changes to the regulatory environment in the 80's or even increases to refining efficiency. You are stuck in the pot head tree hugger vs evil corporation argument.


That's precisely what you are doing right now. I think it's amusing how you fall so neatly into the progressive mold.

Only in your head. Which, I'm sure, brings you comfort of some sort.

malloc
04-25-2011, 05:46 PM
What facts? You just did the typical mean-old-hippies-crippled-Exxon-sniff-sniff schtick taking nothing else into account. And when I ask if the consolidation and shuttering of refining capacity might not be a contributing factor you go off on the "[E]vil" bit. It was like satire.

Somebody's memory is too short for this kind of conversation. Let me recap:


That whoever bought up the excess capacity and shuttered it were geniuses.

LOL! What a leap that was.

Now, why don't you show me where this excess capacity is?

Oh, wait. I know where it is right here! (http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/aer/txt/ptb0509.html). 85-90% utilization without a significant increase in overall output in the last 20 years! That means it's as close to full utilization as can be. (A refinery can easily lose 10% of maximum theoretical potential production a year due to maintenance, inspection, supply problems, and unforseen events, like hurricanes, etc.) Notice that this graph compares theoretical maximum utilization of oil refineries against measured utilization. Demand isn't taken into account, as it far surpasses total domestic refinery output.

It is no longer there. That is sort of the point.

In 1981, the peak of output in the United States, utilization was 68%.

Yes, and why did the number of operable refineries in the U.S. drop in 1981? There were 174 more oil refineries then than there are today. You are saying that the evil oil companies closed these 174 refineries just to jack up oil prices because they are evil?

If that is not your position I'll give you a chance to correct yourself before posting real evidence of what really caused the disappearance of these refineries.


Do you often argue with fantasy contructs in your head?

"[E]vil"? Damn funny.



You said some geniuses bought up some excess capacity and closed it down, which would imply someone smart did it for profit. I asked you where this closed down excess capacity got off to. You agreed that it doesn't exist anymore. I asked if you thought the oil companies removed these refineries to increase profits, while telling you there is a lot of easily linkable evidence to the contrary. You ignored my request for clarification and started playing your cutesy, "I'm not a normal liberal, I'm a unique, beautiful, snowflake!", games.



Only in your head. Which, I'm sure, brings you comfort of some sort.

See all the quotes in this post? Those quotes are posts that you and I both made. Can you tell that they exist in reality and not only in my head? You seem to be claiming that what exists in reality exists only in my head, therefore you are claiming that you know what is in my head, as well as that reality springs from it. Are you on medication for that, because it's outright crazy in both cases.



At that point it is silly to even discuss margins in the refining industry in the 90's or changes to the regulatory environment in the 80's or even increases to refining efficiency. You are stuck in the pot head tree hugger vs evil corporation argument.

As you can see, at this point, I'm stuck trying to figure out if you are going to formulate an opinion or argument on the matter, because after all this bantering you still haven't defined a position in true progressive fashion.

Kay
04-25-2011, 08:06 PM
Oh and I can add to the insanity here. This is what's happening right now
where I dwell, in the Permian Basin. We could be facing a 2 yr stop of all
drilling activity over a friggin sand lizard. :mad:


Could a three-inch lizard collapse the West Texas oil industry?

Posted: Saturday, April 23, 2011 10:30 pm Updated: 9:36 pm, Sun Apr 24, 2011
Mella McEwen Midland Reporter-Telegram

A three-inch lizard that thrives in desert conditions could shut down oil and gas operations in portions of Southeast New Mexico and in West Texas, including the state's top two oil producing counties.

Called the Dunes Sagebrush Lizard, it is being considered for inclusion on the federal Endangered Species listing by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service. A public rally to oppose this move is being sponsored by the Permian Basin Petroleum Association on Tuesday, April 26 at Midland Center beginning at 5 p.m. Congressman Mike Conaway will speak, as will Land Commissioner Jerry Patterson; other public officials have been invited.

"We are very concerned about the Fish and Wildlife Service listing," said Ben Shepperd, president of the PBPA, noting the service also has proposed listing the Lesser Prairie Chicken next year. "The wolf at the door is the lizard; we're concerned listing it would shut down drilling activity for a minimum of two years and as many as five years while the service determines what habitat is needed for the lizard. That means no drilling, no seismic surveys, no roads built, no electric lines."

The move would impact activity in Andrews, Crane, Gaines, Ward and Winkler counties in Texas and Chaves, Eddy, Lea and Roosevelt counties in New Mexico.

Rest of article HERE (http://www.mywesttexas.com/business/oil/article_e7f32d45-fab8-5025-afa9-26a00d768910.html)

Constitutionally Speaking
04-25-2011, 10:01 PM
Oh no! The poor energy companies!

Do you have ANY clue why we are on our way to $6 per gallon gas???

THIS IS WHY.

It is NOT the oil companies that suffer the most from imbecilic policies of this administration and the liberals in government. Those who suffer the most are the CITIZENS of this country.

Odysseus
04-25-2011, 10:40 PM
Oh no! The poor energy companies!
And everyone who uses energy. For example, those poor people that you claim to care about, the ones who are now paying more for food (trucked from where it's grown, and in some cases, diverted for ethanol, which reduces the supply of corn-based products, including feed, which drives up the cost of meat, too), clothing (also trucked in, and some fabrics, nylon, polyester, etc., are petroleum based, so those are going to get pricier, too), electricity (summer is almost here, but I guess that they can just open a window and swelter), heating oil (going to be a very chilly winter without it, but I guess that the lower incomes can handle throwing on a few more layers of clothing, assuming that they have enough), etc. But, I guess that the left just doesn't care if the poor starve, freeze, sweat and end up suffering as long as the oil companies are "punished" for providing the means of alleviating their suffering. Gotta love the left's compassion. :rolleyes:

You are correct. I believe Nixon was president then.

He was. That's what led to the recession that caused him to implement wage and price controls. They failed. Ford didn't have enough time to effect any changes, and Carter's energy policy consisted of forming a federal cabinet agency that did nothing, and telling us to wear sweaters. The 70s truly sucked.

PoliCon
04-25-2011, 11:43 PM
no. our incompetents we voted for are shooting us

I didn't vote for those bastards. :mad:

PoliCon
04-25-2011, 11:45 PM
Oh and I can add to the insanity here. This is what's happening right now
where I dwell, in the Permian Basin. We could be facing a 2 yr stop of all
drilling activity over a friggin sand lizard. :mad:

WTF. Where is this exactly? I'd be happy to come down there and stomp on every last one of those stupid ass lizards if it will get us more oil.

Kay
04-26-2011, 12:09 AM
Here's a pic of the area for you Poli.
The affected counties are all right around the border
between Tx and NM where it makes a 90 degree angle.
SE corner of NM and west corner of TX.

http://www.thepermianbasin.com/permianbasinmap.jpg

PoliCon
04-26-2011, 12:12 AM
It amazes me that these fucking idiots on the left are willing to sacrifice PEOPLE for lizards and minnows and FREAKING BUGS! :mad:

Kay
04-26-2011, 12:20 AM
This is a picture of it. And it is only 3" long.
We have a ton of lizards around here. If this
one goes extinct, I don't see that it fills such
a role in the ecosystem that it can't be easily
replaced by one of the other gazillion lizard
brands we have. This surely will not come to
pass. I don't think it will go over in this area
as passively as the minnow deal in CA did.

http://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/mywesttexas.com/content/tncms/assets/editorial/7/cb/0b3/7cb0b3de-6d23-11e0-9876-001cc4c002e0-revisions/4db1ec509a1c2.image.jpg

lacarnut
04-26-2011, 06:19 AM
This is a picture of it. And it is only 3" long.
We have a ton of lizards around here. If this
one goes extinct, I don't see that it fills such
a role in the ecosystem that it can't be easily
replaced by one of the other gazillion lizard
brands we have. This surely will not come to
pass. I don't think it will go over in this area
as passively as the minnow deal in CA did.

http://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/mywesttexas.com/content/tncms/assets/editorial/7/cb/0b3/7cb0b3de-6d23-11e0-9876-001cc4c002e0-revisions/4db1ec509a1c2.image.jpg

Would not surprise me that Obama ordered this as pay back for Gov Perry objection to the Magic Negro's immigration policy. The sorry bastard does have that Chicago thug mentality of punishing his enemies.

Odysseus
04-26-2011, 07:47 AM
This is a picture of it. And it is only 3" long.
We have a ton of lizards around here. If this
one goes extinct, I don't see that it fills such
a role in the ecosystem that it can't be easily
replaced by one of the other gazillion lizard
brands we have. This surely will not come to
pass. I don't think it will go over in this area
as passively as the minnow deal in CA did.

http://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/mywesttexas.com/content/tncms/assets/editorial/7/cb/0b3/7cb0b3de-6d23-11e0-9876-001cc4c002e0-revisions/4db1ec509a1c2.image.jpg

I'll bet it tastes like chicken. :D

Arroyo_Doble
04-26-2011, 09:12 AM
I asked if you thought the oil companies removed these refineries to increase profits, while telling you there is a lot of easily linkable evidence to the contrary.

Sure, cupcake.


You are saying that the evil oil companies closed these 174 refineries just to jack up oil prices because they are evil?


http://s3.credoaction.com.s3.amazonaws.com/comics/TMW12-07-05.jpg

AmPat
04-26-2011, 09:40 AM
Who was President the one and only period of time I paid over $4 per gallon for regular?

There are two. Bush and O Blah Blah.

Soon you will pay 5-6 dollars a gallon.

Next stupid question?:rolleyes:

AmPat
04-26-2011, 09:41 AM
Once again AM radio rears it's head.

Can't have truth compete with the legacy liar's media.:rolleyes:

AmPat
04-26-2011, 09:44 AM
AM radio is full of guys that are in a constant state of outrage. I get exhausted listening to them for ten minutes and after about twenty minutes find myself completely capable of taking another human being's life.

Then by all means, continue filling your skull with the legacy lying media. Truth hurts. We don't want your delicate mind to attempt to face the truth.

Arroyo_Doble
04-26-2011, 09:49 AM
Then by all means, continue filling your skull with the legacy lying media. Truth hurts. We don't want your delicate mind to attempt to face the truth.

That is a pretty cool thing about AM radio and their style of media. They convince their audience that only they give you the real truth and everyone else delivers falsehoods. They convince their audience that they are the victims, they are the true patriots, and they are the only ones who are really informed. They inculcate this paranoia and delusions of granduer until the audience, the true believers, will only listen to the speaker for information and believe them on all things regardless of evidence to the contrary or basic logic and reason.

It's like a cult.

AmPat
04-26-2011, 09:54 AM
That is a pretty cool thing about AM radio and their style of media. They convince their audience that only they give you the real truth and everyone else delivers falsehoods. They convince their audience that they are the victims, they are the true patriots, and they are the only ones who are really informed. They inculcate this paranoia and delusions of granduer until the audience, the true believers, will only listen to the speaker for information and believe them on all things regardless of evidence to the contrary or basic logic and reason.

It's like a cult.

Nice evasion. The reports put side by side reveal the lying scumbags on the left in firm control of the alphabet media. Thus, liberals attack the other outlets that actually report the truth. Funny how the alphabets report the same crap using the same adjectives huh? Ever notice how they report incessantly about GOP/Conservative malfeasance yet the liberals get a pass?

fettpett
04-26-2011, 10:04 AM
crude oil prices over the last 5 years
http://www.oil-price.net/5y_small.gif
http://www.oil-price.net/BRENT/5y_small.gif

Gas prices last 5 years
http://66.70.86.64/ChartServer/ch.gaschart?Country=Canada&Crude=f&Period=72&Areas=USA%20Average,,&Unit=US%20$/G

Hurricane Katrina affect on oil
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_effects_of_Hurricane_Katrina#Oil_producti on

The storm interrupted oil production, importation, and refining in the Gulf eden, thus having a major effect on fuel prices. Before the storm, one-tenth of all the crude oil consumed in the United States and almost half of the gasoline produced in the country came from refineries in the states along the Gulf's shores. An additional 24% of the natural gas supply is extracted or imported in the region. Furthermore, the nation's Strategic Petroleum Reserve is also stored in this region.
Power outages in the wake of Katrina have also caused distribution problems for oil and natural gas. Pipelines which move petroleum products from places like Houston to areas of the east coast have had their flows interrupted because power outages shut down the pumps that kept materials flowing. Dick Cheney personally called the manager of the Southern Pines Electric Power Association on the night of August 30 and again the next morning and ordered him to divert power crews to substations in nearby Collins that were essential to the operation of the Colonial Pipeline, which carries gasoline and diesel fuel from Texas to the Northeast.[6]
At least twenty offshore oil platforms were missing, sunk, or had gone adrift, according to the United States Coast Guard. One oil rig, in dock for repairs before the storm, broke loose and hit the Cochrane/Africatown USA road bridge over the Mobile River in Mobile, Alabama. Two others went adrift in the Gulf of Mexico, but they were recovered. One platform, originally located 12 mi (20 km) off the Louisiana coast, has washed up onshore at Dauphin Island, Alabama. Shell Oil Company's MARS platform, producing around 147,000 barrels (23,000 m³) per day, was also severely damaged.
At 7:03 a.m. CDT on August 29, Ted Falgout, Port Director of Port Fourchon, Louisiana, a key oil and gas hub 60 mi (100 km) south of New Orleans on the Gulf of Mexico, reported that the port had taken a direct hit from the hurricane. The port services approximately 16% of the nation’s supply of crude oil and natural gas.[7] According to Falgout, Hurricane Katrina, "will impact oil and gas infrastructure, not just short term but long term as well. The impact of the storm — the Gulf is shut down; all of the area of the storm is shut down; a half billion dollars a day of oil and gas is unavailable."


Port Fourchon takes direct hit from Katrina (7 a.m. CDT,29 August 2005)
The Louisiana Offshore Oil Port, which imports 11% of all U.S. oil consumption, closed on August 27, and Shell reported a reduction in production of 420,000 barrels per day (67,000 m3/d).[8] The port was undamaged by the storm and resumed operation within hours of getting power back.
Due to fears that the production of oil in the United States will be cut by up to one-third of normal capacity, the price of oil fluctuated greatly. West Texas Intermediate crude oil futures reached a record high of over $70 per barrel ($0.44/L). There were many reports to Louisiana authorities and elsewhere of price gouging, not only for gasoline, but also for other needed items such as bottled water. In some areas, gasoline was being sold for as much as $6 per gallon ($1.59 per liter). One BP station in Stockbridge, Georgia, south of Atlanta, was selling gas at $5.87 per gallon ($1.55 per liter) less than a day after Katrina hit. Just before the storm, average fuel prices were approximately $2.50 per US gallon ($0.66/L). International oil prices also rose. In the United Kingdom, pump prices for unleaded petrol (gas) hit £1 per litre ($7 per U.S. gallon) for the first time in a significant number of places (averaging about 95p), a rise of about 3% from pre-Katrina prices. Wholesale prices were up 5% by September 6.[9]
Long lines developed at some gas stations throughout the U.S. as customers rushed to buy gasoline, anticipating price increases in the wake of the storm. Emphasizing the seriousness of the situation and in light of similar incidents in his own state, Governor Mike Easley of North Carolina has issued a statement asking all North Carolinians to conserve gas, limit fuel consumption and non-essential road trips, and for state employees to car pool.[10] On the day of the Governor's announcement, many gas stations around the state ran out of gas and lines were formed at others.
By 12:00 p.m. CDT on August 31, eight Gulf of Mexico refineries remained shut down and one was operating at reduced capacity. Evaluation of five of the eight refineries was delayed due to limited access. Aside from the problems involved in restarting the refineries (which is a lengthy process) there were additional major issues with worker housing, since a large proportion of homes were destroyed by the hurricane.
The Environmental Protection Agency moved to reduce prices by temporarily lifting fuel standards in America until September 15. Some crude oil was also released from the Strategic Petroleum Reserve, as well, to combat prices as major economic consequences were predicted if prices remained high for a long period of time — leading consumer spending to drop and causing many foreign economies, especially in Asia, to suffer. President Bush also temporarily waived the Jones Act, allowing foreign oil companies to ship oil between ports of the United States.
By September 7, Gulf oil production had returned to 42% of normal. Of 10 refineries that were shut down by Katrina, four were expected to be back at full capacity within a week, however another four could be out of commission for months.

Hurricane Rita had a big effect as well
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurricane_Rita

The heavy concentration of oil infrastructure in the Gulf of Mexico makes hurricanes of Rita's intensity very problematic. Currently, very little spare crude oil capacity exists in the United States, and the Gulf of Mexico produces some 2 million barrels per day (300 ML) total, as well as having some 30% of the total refining capacity of the United States. Rita's path traveled through a dense area of offshore pipelines and oil platforms, and on land to an area with large refineries. With over half of Gulf production still shut down in the wake of Katrina, some economists have stated that a worst case scenario is for gasoline prices to briefly touch $5/US gallon ($1.30/L), which would be easily the highest real price for gasoline paid in the United States during the internal combustion era. However the oil industry escaped essentially unscathed from the storm and post-storm predictions estimated only minor price rises. With some 200,000 jobless claims attributed to Katrina, Rita may have been a further drag on a weakened US economy.
The most pessimistic projections had GDP growth cut by 1% on an annualized basis in the United States in the second half of 2005, with as many as 500,000 people made unemployed. Some economists argued that the rebuilding effort could buoy the economy in 2006, while others argued that the energy spike could decrease consumer confidence by enough to send the economy into a full-fledged recession when combined with the Federal Reserve's recent increases in interest rates. While the above did happen, it did not occur until 2008, over a year after Rita's impact.
Due to the impending oil shortage and increasing gas prices, Georgia Governor Sonny Perdue declared what he termed "snow days," closing all Georgia public primary and secondary schools on September 26 and 27 to conserve fuel for buses.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_price_increases_since_2003#Possible_causes

Odysseus
04-26-2011, 10:19 AM
That is a pretty cool thing about AM radio and their style of media. They convince their audience that only they give you the real truth and everyone else delivers falsehoods. They convince their audience that they are the victims, they are the true patriots, and they are the only ones who are really informed. They inculcate this paranoia and delusions of granduer until the audience, the true believers, will only listen to the speaker for information and believe them on all things regardless of evidence to the contrary or basic logic and reason.

It's like a cult.

The difference is, I don't know anyone who gets all of their news from talk radio. I sure don't. But I know lots of liberals who listen to nothing but the MSM, which has a well-documented history of playing with the news. Anyone who takes them seriously after the JournOlist scandal has no business accusing any other outlet of cultishness. Say what you will about AM Radio, at least they didn't try to pretend that Obama was qualified for the job.

fettpett
04-26-2011, 10:22 AM
The difference is, I don't know anyone who gets all of their news from talk radio. I sure don't. But I know lots of liberals who listen to nothing but the MSM, which has a well-documented history of playing with the news. Anyone who takes them seriously after the JournOlist scandal has no business accusing any other outlet of cultishness. Say what you will about AM Radio, at least they didn't try to pretend that Obama was qualified for the job.

there or DailyKook or HuffPuff

malloc
04-26-2011, 03:24 PM
Sure, cupcake.

Cupcake; that's cute, probably picked that one up in Internet Tough Guy 101. Very stereotypical, but then again I didn't expect anything else from you.

You missed that question mark (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Question_mark) there at the end of the sentence (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sentence_%28linguistics%29) did you? Since you missed the question mark, you got your panties all in a bunch when you realized that someone picked you for the everyday, very typical, boring moonbat you really are.

Maybe one of these days you'll figure out how written language works and become more enlightened, engaged and less bitter at the same time. I'm not holding my breath though, you can't normally fix stupid.

Arroyo_Doble
04-26-2011, 03:28 PM
You missed that question mark (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Question_mark) there at the end of the sentence (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sentence_%28linguistics%29) did you?



You are saying that the evil oil companies closed these 174 refineries just to jack up oil prices because they are evil?

*shrug*

Is that a special kind of oil company?

malloc
04-26-2011, 03:29 PM
Say what you will about AM Radio, at least they didn't try to pretend that Obama was qualified for the job.

The MSM did a lot more than just pretend Obama was qualified. Journalists, and I'm using the term loosely here, actively collaborated to tout Obama as *the* man for the job, while coordinating attacks against his opponents, across multiple supposedly competitive news outlets at the same time. That's not just pretending, that's putting shit in a shoe box and hawking it as grade A Shinola.

malloc
04-26-2011, 03:35 PM
*shrug*

Is that a special kind of oil company?

Perhaps for a very *special* member of this board who has very *special* needs when it comes to parsing words from top to bottom and left to right.

You see, little *special* child. When the big man asks you a question, you can tell because it ends in a question mark. When you see a question mark ending a sentence the appropriate response is to answer the big man's question like a good little special boy. You can answer with a yes, a no, or even a neither. Then you can even include explanation, background, and other material pertinent to the situation. Sulking like a special two year old with a lip puffed out over a simple question isn't ever a good response, even for special small people like you. However, if it's the best you can do, then at least you've done your best, right?

Arroyo_Doble
04-26-2011, 03:36 PM
Perhaps for a very *special* member of this board who has very *special* needs when it comes to parsing words from top to bottom and left to right.

You see, little *special* child. When the big man asks you a question, you can tell because it ends in a question mark. When you see a question mark ending a sentence the appropriate response is to answer the big man's question like a good little special boy. You can answer with a yes, a no, or even a neither. Then you can even include explanation, background, and other material pertinent to the situation. Sulking like a special two year old with a lip puffed out over a simple question isn't ever a good response, even for special small people like you. However, if it's the best you do, then at least you've done your best, right?

Was that a yes or a no?

malloc
04-26-2011, 03:42 PM
Was that a yes or a no?

You really have trouble with English don't you? Is English your second language or something?



Perhaps for a very *special* member of this board who has very *special* needs when it comes to parsing words from top to bottom and left to right.

The bolded section implies an answer in the affirmative, so long as the criteria following the bolded section is met. The criteria is italicized for your convenience, examine it, and use your brain power to think real hard and see if the criteria is met. See how this fits neatly into the bounds defined below.



You can answer with a yes, a no, or even a neither. Then you can even include explanation, background, and other material pertinent to the situation.

Now you can clap your hands and yell, "Yay!" because you are well on your way to learning how to deal with the question mark! Soon, you won't even need my instruction!

txradioguy
04-26-2011, 04:22 PM
This is a picture of it. And it is only 3" long.
We have a ton of lizards around here. If this
one goes extinct, I don't see that it fills such
a role in the ecosystem that it can't be easily
replaced by one of the other gazillion lizard
brands we have. This surely will not come to
pass. I don't think it will go over in this area
as passively as the minnow deal in CA did.

http://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/mywesttexas.com/content/tncms/assets/editorial/7/cb/0b3/7cb0b3de-6d23-11e0-9876-001cc4c002e0-revisions/4db1ec509a1c2.image.jpg

I think my son has one of those in a fish tank in Germany.

He named it Bob.


FWIW I wonder how many of those little reptiles are killed and eaten every year by bigger reptiles and four legged creatures that roam the beautiful countryside of W. Texas?

I'm guessing far more than would be harmed by the drilling.

txradioguy
04-26-2011, 04:24 PM
You really have trouble with English don't you? Is English your second language or something?

No Oreo purposely acts stupid to avoid having to a) defend anything he says and b) take a stand on the drivel he posts.


He's purposely obtuse.



Now you can clap your hands and yell, "Yay!" because you are well on your way to learning how to deal with the question mark! Soon, you won't even need my instruction!

IF you can actually get Bok to do that you'll have accomplished more than the rest of us have in the last 5 years.

malloc
04-26-2011, 04:46 PM
FWIW I wonder how many of those little reptiles are killed and eaten every year by bigger reptiles and four legged creatures that roam the beautiful countryside of W. Texas?

I just about put my soda through my nose at this! I lived most of my life in East New Mexico, but I remember a trip to Corpus Christi, the iris of the world, but in order to get there, we had to traverse the armpit of the world, Ft. Stockton in West Texas. After a refreshing night of sleeping in the damned goat head bushes at the KOA, and then stumbling through all manner of poisonous and spikey things while packing up, I was glad to be taking my leave of that area. Beautiful yes, roamable, not so much.



No Oreo purposely acts stupid to avoid having to a) defend anything he says and b) take a stand on the drivel he posts.

I'm not entirely convinced it's an act. ;)

txradioguy
04-26-2011, 04:53 PM
I just about put my soda through my nose at this! I lived most of my life in East New Mexico, but I remember a trip to Corpus Christi, the iris of the world, but in order to get there, we had to traverse the armpit of the world, Ft. Stockton in West Texas. After a refreshing night of sleeping in the damned goat head bushes at the KOA, and then stumbling through all manner of poisonous and spikey things while packing up, I was glad to be taking my leave of that area. Beautiful yes, roamable, not so much.[quote]

LOL! I see your point. But then again what isn't "roamable" for you and me is a stroll in the park for Coyotes and jack rabbits or our good friend Mr. Western Diamondback :D



[quote]I'm not entirely convinced it's an act. ;)

Me either.

Kay
04-26-2011, 09:47 PM
After a refreshing night of sleeping in the damned goat head bushes

Hahaha...I laughed right out loud at this. :D
Goat heads and bull nettles.



I think my son has one of those in a fish tank in Germany.
FWIW I wonder how many of those little reptiles are killed and eaten every year by bigger
reptiles and four legged creatures that roam the beautiful countryside of W. Texas?

I'm guessing far more than would be harmed by the drilling.

I don't know why we are even discussing this whole lizard thing.
The fires have probably already roasted them all to extinction by now.

lacarnut
04-26-2011, 10:31 PM
I don't know why we are even discussing this whole lizard thing.
The fires have probably already roasted them all to extinction by now.

God does have a sense of humor. :)

Novaheart
04-29-2011, 11:07 PM
You named your pickup pearl ?What's the matter with you,are you out to give Toyota a faggymobile bad name ?I'll bet it's pink and has fluffy pom poms hanging from the mirror ?

No, the color is Red Impulse Pearl and I have stuffed monkeys that my niece gives me.

If you want to mock something, mock that impotencemobile that lacarnut drives.