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megimoo
04-30-2011, 02:55 PM
When the Rapture of the Church finally takes place - in which Almighty God the Son calls out His body (saints and ambassadors) - it (The Rapture) will be a wondrous sign unto the apostate western world more so than a sign unto the whole world. For all had better be prepared, for Almighty God's "Day of Wrath" is now at hand (2 Thess. 2:3-12)!

"Darby popularized this mistaken notion of a "pre-tribulation" rapture in the 1830's, and it did not exist before that. "

"This revealing of the Anti-Christ and the commencement of this seven year tribulation period will begin when this man (i.e., the Anti-Christ) adds his position of great power and authority to a covenant with Israel on the behalf of Israelís defeated enemies"

" Obama is still on record as targeting a middle east peace agreement by September."

The official commencement of this horrific seven year period will be the breaking of the 1st seal (i.e., the "Confirming of the Covenant" - Dan. 9:27) by Almighty Godís Lamb (i.e., The Lord Jesus Christ) in Heaven (Rev. 6:1). It is at this precise moment that the man of lawlessness (i.e., the anti-Christ) will be revealed unto the entire world (2 Thess. 2: 3-12; Rev. 6:2).

This revealing of the Anti-Christ and the commencement of this seven year tribulation period will begin when this man (i.e., the Anti-Christ) adds his position of great power and authority to a covenant with Israel on the behalf of Israelís defeated enemies (Ezek. 38:8,11-12, Dan. 9: 27).

Israel will sign this covenant from a position of strength, not weakness (Ezek 38: 8). Israel will then have rest and dwell in their land in safety because they have eradicated their border enemies (Ezek. 38:8,11-12, Rev. 11:3-7).

This position of power does not mean that Israel's heart is right with Almighty God, for it will not be (Rev. 11:8). Israel at this time will also have the super natural protection of Almighty Godís two witnesses who possess Almighty God's Divine authority and are extremely more powerful and than the anti - Christ and his global confederacies (Rev. 11:3-6).

http://www.theignorantfishermen.com/2011/04/tilling-ground-for-lucifers-anti-christ.html

Comments:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2712780/posts

The article may be somewhat accurate, but it announces it's misinformed assumptions in the very first sentence! The rapture of the church, better called the gathering, happens "on the last day", "immediately after the tribulation of those days" and "at the last trump" (John 6:40, Matt 24:29 and 1 Cor 15:52).

A plain reading of the texts indicate the resurrection and gathering of believers happens on the great day of the Lord. Darby popularized this mistaken notion of a "pre-tribulation" rapture in the 1830's, and it did not exist before that.

All of the church fathers that commented on it (Irenaeus, Turtullian, Hyppolitus, et al) believed the church would be persecuted by the antichrist, and that there was no "imminence" as is currently taught. A plain reading of the scripture, without charts, extra books, or someones extra-biblical time-line will make this evident to the reader.

As if that were not enough, Revelation only teaches of 2 resurrections of the dead, and speaks nothing of "stages". People will offer the argument that "the church is never mentioned ion Revelation from chapter 4 onward", but they fail to see that the corporate church is not mentioned in the first 3 chapters either, rather, the letter is sent to the "7 churches", 7 literal churches that existed at the time of Johns writing.

And, interestingly enough, a seven year tribulation is never mentioned in Revelation! It's either 3.5 years or 42 months.

In any case, this mini-treatise will never convince the hard-core pre-tribber, but it may challenge some to look at the SCRIPTURE, and see what it says. I will not argue the point further, lest it become divisive. In either case,regardless of your belief on this subject, be prepared for tribulation, for we shall have it! (John 16:33)

And, be a Berean (Acts 17:11), and "Take heed that no man deceive you" (Matt 24:4)

http://www.theignorantfishermen.com/2011/04/tilling-ground-for-lucifers-anti-christ.html

Novaheart
04-30-2011, 03:02 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ctnE8OZQXIo

fettpett
04-30-2011, 03:16 PM
I believe he's referring to the erroneous "Secret Rapture" that many people believe in (ala Left Behind). What is ironic about it is that they use verses that say just the opposite like 1 THESSALONIANS 4:16-17

16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Gingersnap
05-02-2011, 11:50 AM
I wouldn't be surprised if this was the beginning of the end in some way.

Rockntractor
05-02-2011, 12:39 PM
I believe he's referring to the erroneous "Secret Rapture" that many people believe in (ala Left Behind). What is ironic about it is that they use verses that say just the opposite like 1 THESSALONIANS 4:16-17

His eschatological theories are just that, theories, as are the eschatological theories of the SDA church.
I always try to remember that even with my own end time beliefs, they are an interpretation at best.

fettpett
05-02-2011, 02:17 PM
His eschatological theories are just that, theories, as are the eschatological theories of the SDA church.
I always try to remember that even with my own end time beliefs, they are an interpretation at best.

yeah, i know, i was just commenting on what that original article is about, the concept of the secrete rapture is very new and holds little to no biblical backing, not Megi's comments on the article over all.

FlaGator
05-02-2011, 02:23 PM
I'm not a pre-trib rapture believer. I see no Biblical basis for the belief. It seems to be no more than wishful thinking.

megimoo
05-02-2011, 02:48 PM
yeah, i know, i was just commenting on what that original article is about, the concept of the secrete rapture is very new and holds little to no biblical backing, not Megi's comments on the article over all.Tell us of your beliefs. Who is and where will the Anti Christ will spring from ?

Four Views of End Times Prophecy
http://www.matthewmcgee.org/rapture.html

fettpett
05-02-2011, 03:25 PM
Tell us of your beliefs. Who is and where will the Anti Christ will spring from ?

Four Views of End Times Prophecy
http://www.matthewmcgee.org/rapture.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seventh-day_Adventist_eschatology

this does a fairly good job explaining SDA beliefs on the End times

One thing I want to note about the antichrist and the Papacy is that it's not so much the individual but the office and it's influence that it has that (at lest in my view) on world powers. Nor do we as Adventist have any problem with members of the Catholic church, just the power that the church has and uses.

tetrispro
05-04-2011, 01:41 PM
Their eschatology is in error. The Bible says unless those days (not years) are cut short, no flesh shall be saved(Matthew 24:22)

tetrispro
05-04-2011, 01:43 PM
I studied Adventist theology too. I do agree with some of what the Adventists teach but their still part of Protestantism which is part of apostate religious Babylon.

FlaGator
05-04-2011, 01:47 PM
I studied Adventist theology too. I do agree with some of what the Adventists teach but their still part of Protestantism which is part of apostate religious Babylon.

Do you understand the concept of the invisible Church?

tetrispro
05-04-2011, 01:51 PM
God works through certain people as an organization to get the message out to people. God dont want half-truths being shared with people. He wants Bible researchers who are willing to put all that theology nonsense away and just use the Bible without all those doctrinal rules.God dont work through the apostate religious system because they have been confused by theologies and eschatologies developed during the foretold apostasy. The wheat and the tares. The Bible says God is a God of order, not confusion

Zathras
05-04-2011, 01:53 PM
God works through certain people as an organization to get the message out to people. God dont want half-truths being shared with people. He wants Bible researchers who are willing to put all that theology nonsense away and just use the Bible without all that doctrinal rules.

And you know this how? Let me guess...you spoke to god and he gave you the big plan?

tetrispro
05-04-2011, 02:07 PM
God worked through Israel as an organized nation. He also dealt with the Israelites as individuals. When the Kingdom of God was taken away from Israel and given to a "new nation" spiritual Israel, God worked through the 1st century Christians as his organized group. But after the death of the apostles came the falling away from pure worship and the teachings of Christ were mixed with pagan customs and traditions of men. This was the fulfillment of scripture. The foretold apostasy. The man of sin which sits in the temple of God just like the Pharisees sat in the seat of Moses. The corruption went on for centuries. Emperor Constantine gave official recorgnition to this apostate form of Christianity which has been corrupted through the centuries and the churches keep getting worse and worse and more and more people are turning away from God. Trying to restore the purity and simplicity of Jesus teachings and getting those teachings out to the masses so they can have eternal life under jesus rule on the new earth

Zathras
05-04-2011, 02:12 PM
God worked through Israel as an organized nation. He also dealt with the Israelites as individuals. When the Kingdom of God was taken away from Israel and given to a "new nation" spiritual Israel, God worked through the 1st century Christians as his organized group. But after the death of the apostles came the falling away from pure worship and the teachings of Christ were mixed with pagan customs and traditions of men. This was the fulfillment of scripture. The foretold apostasy. The man of sin which sits in the temple of God just like the Pharisees sat in the seat of Moses. The corruption went on for centuries. Emperor Constantine gave official recorgnition to this apostate form of Christianity which has been corrupted through the centuries and the churches keep getting worse and worse and more and more people are turning away from God. Trying to restore the purity and simplicity of Jesus teachings and getting those teachings out to the masses so they can have eternal life under jesus rule on the new earth

RIIIIIGHT.

tetrispro
05-04-2011, 02:19 PM
What a pleasure it will be to step forward after the “great tribulation” into the cleansed earth and to experience the start of the thousand-year reign of Christ and his bride composed of 144,000 men and women purchased from the earth! They will be turning their attention to humankind, with a view to raising a large family of perfect sons and daughters. What loving parents these will be! Moved by love and compassion, they will begin their parental activities, giving the guidance and help needed for the tribulation survivors to overcome their weaknesses and imperfections. Then, after Jesus Christ raises the dead to life, the bride will work along with him in aiding the resurrected ones to start growing to perfection. By means of what Christ and his bride will be doing for humankind, the tent or tabernacle of Jehovah God will be with men. (Rev. 21:1-4) To represent them on earth they will have faithful men as princes. (Ps. 45:16) These princes will not be like the corrupt, self-seeking politicians that have governed people for many centuries. Rather, they will be like the ones whom Moses was told to choose: “Capable men, fearing God, trustworthy men, hating unjust profit.” (Ex. 18:21) These will provide a just and loving administration, with security and comfort for all.—Isa. 32:1, 2.
8 The ungodly world having been destroyed and Satan and his demons abyssed, there will be no more wickedness, no more false religion, no more demonic activities. ‘No one will do any harm or bring about any ruin in all God’s holy mountain, for the earth will be filled with the knowledge of Jehovah as the waters cover the very sea.’ (Isa. 11:9) Not only will there be peace between all peoples and races, but there will be peace between men and the rest of earth’s creatures: “For them I shall certainly conclude a covenant in that day in connection with the wild beast of the field and with the flying creature of the heavens and the creeping thing of the ground, .*.*. and I will make them lie down in security.” Humankind will exercise a loving dominion; man will not fear the animals, and the animals will have no morbid fear of man. The whole earth will reflect the glory of its Creator, who is the “God who gives peace,” and of Jesus Christ, who is the “Prince of Peace.”—Hos. 2:18; Rom. 16:20; Isa. 9:6.

Zathras
05-04-2011, 02:23 PM
Arrgh, the wall of text strikes again!!!!!

Dude, paragraphs, they are your friend. Use them...embrace them....and you won't blind anyone to your message when their eyes glaze over trying to read it.

Also, cut n' paste doesn't help your message.

tetrispro
05-04-2011, 02:24 PM
Also with the utmost assurance we can look forward to the resurrection of the dead. Why? Because God has given us many promises to that effect, and he cannot lie. (Titus 1:2) Moreover, he has furnished to all men a guarantee of it in that he raised Jesus from the dead. (Acts 17:31) The resurrection is so sure of taking place that Jehovah counts those dead as being actually alive, even as Jesus told the doubting Sadducees of his day.—Matt. 22:31, 32.
10 What will be resurrected? Not the body that died, for it has returned to the dust and may have become part of other living things. As the apostle Paul shows: “What you sow is not made alive unless first it dies; and as for what you sow, you sow, not the body that will develop, but a bare grain,” and “God gives it a body just as it has pleased him.” (1*Cor. 15:35-38) Yes, not a body made up of the same molecules, but the soul—the person—will be raised from gravedom, Sheol or Hades, even as it was foretold regarding Jesus: “You will not leave my soul in Sheol.”—Ps. 16:10; Acts 2:24-27.
11 What kind of body will the resurrected soul or person have? For those sharing in the first resurrection it will be a glorious, divine, incorruptible body. The first resurrection is first in time, importance and quality, and is experienced by the anointed footstep followers of Christ, the 144,000 shown standing upon Mount Zion. (Rev. 20:4, 6; 14:1, 3) Regarding the resurrection of sleeping anointed ones during the Lord’s presence, we read: “The Lord himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel’s voice and with God’s trumpet, and those who are dead in union with Christ will rise first.” (1*Thess. 4:16) Concerning the remaining ones of this group who die after that resurrection, Paul goes on to say: “Afterward we the living who are surviving will, together with them, be caught away in clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and thus we shall always be with the Lord.” (1*Thess. 4:17; Rev. 14:13) As shown at 1*Corinthians 15:51, 52, this means that they do not fall asleep in death, but are instantly raised to heavenly life and united with the Lord Jesus Christ in the invisible heavens.
12 What about the rest of dead mankind? The apostle Paul testified that “there is going to be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous.” Similarly, Jesus foretold that “all those in the memorial tombs will hear his voice” and come forth. Further, we are told that “death and Hades” will give up all the dead in them. Included among these will be the sympathetic evildoer impaled alongside Jesus and to whom Jesus said: “Truly I tell you today, You will be with me in Paradise.” (Acts 24:15; John 5:28, 29; Rev. 20:13; Luke 23:42, 43) In view of their evidently being assigned as earthly representatives of the Kingdom, faithful men from Abel on to John the Baptist will likely be among the first to be resurrected. (Ps. 45:16) Any of those who have met God’s requirements for surviving the “great tribulation” but who have died or may yet die before that event will doubtless also be raised to life early during the thousand-year reign. This would be reasonable, as such persons could be very helpful in educating the many unrighteous ones who will be resurrected.
13 What about those coming back to live on the earth? What kind of bodies will they have? What will they look like? As illustrated by past resurrections, especially that of Lazarus, they will no doubt look much like they did before they died, so as to be recognizable to themselves and others. (John 11:39-44) A tall person will not come back as a short person, nor will a very old person come back looking like a teen-ager. Men will be men, and women, women. They will have their identical personalities and the same memory. As was evidently true of those resurrected in the past, the resurrected ones will have sound and complete bodies. They will not come back in the sickly condition that led to their death. But this does not mean that they will have perfect bodies, for such would not go with imperfect personalities. Rather, they will come forth with imperfect bodies and, as they make spiritual progress, overcoming their weaknesses and imperfections through obedience to Kingdom rule and their receiving the atoning benefits of Jesus’ sacrifice, their bodies will come ever closer to perfection.
14 The resurrection provision is an expression of love on the part of Jehovah God, as seen from the words of patient and faithful Job: “If an able-bodied man dies can he live again? .*.*. You will call, and I myself shall answer you. For the work of your hands you will have a yearning.” Yes, Jehovah God has a yearning for those in Sheol or Hades, in particular for those who, like Job, proved their integrity to him under severe trials.—Job 14:14, 15.
15 And surely the resurrection of countless millions will also bring great joy to Jesus Christ. Indicative of Jesus’ willingness and pleasure to do this for humankind is his response to a leper who once came to Jesus, saying to him in faith: “Lord, if you just want to, you can make me clean.” And what did Jesus say to him? “‘I want to. Be made clean.’ And immediately the leprosy vanished from him.”—Luke 5:12, 13.
16 Truly the resurrection is also something for us to look forward to with eager anticipation and joy. Our doing so in faith can be a real source of encouragement and blessing to us and fellowmen even now. When death claims loved ones, we will not give way to the extremes of grief and sorrow of those having no hope. (1*Thess. 4:13, 14) We will be able to give genuine comfort to mourning ones. (2*Cor. 1:3, 4) Because of having made the resurrection hope our own, we have the confidence that even if men take our lives, they cannot wipe us out from God’s memory and prevent our being raised from the dead. (Matt. 10:28) This serves to strengthen us in remaining loyal to Jehovah God regardless of what men might do to us.—Rev. 2:10; 12:11.
17 A further incentive to faithfulness is the fact that there is a possibility of losing out on the reward of life. (Compare 2*Timothy 4:8.) The Bible reveals that deliberate practicers of sin—those who sin against God’s spirit—will not be raised from the dead. (Matt. 12:31, 32; Heb. 10:26, 27) This should certainly encourage us to imitate the apostle Paul’s example in striving to maintain faithfulness. Paul said of himself: “I pummel my body and lead it as a slave, that, after I have preached to others, I myself should not become disapproved somehow.” (1*Cor. 9:27) Yes, may we never lose sight of the reward of life and fail to exert ourselves in sticking loyally to Jehovah God.

Zathras
05-04-2011, 02:26 PM
Hmmm, yet another wall of text.

No desire to read that.

FlaGator
05-04-2011, 02:27 PM
God works through certain people as an organization to get the message out to people. God dont want half-truths being shared with people. He wants Bible researchers who are willing to put all that theology nonsense away and just use the Bible without all those doctrinal rules.God dont work through the apostate religious system because they have been confused by theologies and eschatologies developed during the foretold apostasy. The wheat and the tares. The Bible says God is a God of order, not confusion

Do you read Hebrew, Greek and Aramaic?

tetrispro
05-04-2011, 02:31 PM
I tried to keep it short, sorry

FlaGator
05-04-2011, 02:33 PM
Hmmm, yet another wall of text.

No desire to read that.

Your not missing anything. It is simply cherry picked Scripture to prove whatever point he is trying to make. One can prove or disprove anything using bits of scripture that don't take in to account the whole message of the Bible.

As Christians we shouldn't worry about the end of days and just live life as Christ has asked us to, believing His return is imminent . If you live like that then prophecy will tend to take care of itself.

Zathras
05-04-2011, 02:45 PM
I tried to keep it short, sorry

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v602/HeroesAtWork/demotivational-poster-lion-facepaw.jpg

Zathras
05-04-2011, 02:48 PM
Your not missing anything. It is simply cherry picked Scripture to prove whatever point he is trying to make. One can prove or disprove anything using bits of scripture that don't take in to account the whole message of the Bible.

Which can be done with any religious text to be honest.


As Christians we shouldn't worry about the end of days and just live life as Christ has asked us to, believing His return is imminent . If you live like that then prophecy will tend to take care of itself.

As it should be.

tetrispro
05-04-2011, 05:43 PM
Which can be done with any religious text to be honest.



As it should be.

Im quoting scripture. Ask me a question about the Bible and I will uses other verses in the Bible. Let scripture interpret scripture.

Zathras
05-04-2011, 07:07 PM
Im quoting scripture. Ask me a question about the Bible and I will uses other verses in the Bible. Let scripture interpret scripture.

Cherry picked to make the point go your way of course.

NBC2012
05-30-2011, 06:32 PM
The Great Trib occured in 70 A.D.

OrthodoxPresbyterian
05-30-2011, 07:02 PM
Tell us of your beliefs. Who is and where will the Anti Christ will spring from ?

Four Views of End Times Prophecy
http://www.matthewmcgee.org/rapture.html

The Book of Revelation was written during the reign of Caesar Nero in the Early 60s AD, according to the inscription on the front of the Syriac Manuscripts of Revelation itself.

The Beast of Revelation, Nero Caesar ("Neron Qesar" in Hebrew, with a Gematria value of 666), has already committed his rampages. Most of Revelation has already been fulfilled; at this point, we are living in The Church Age (figuratively, "a thousand years" or "a long aeon of time"). There's nothing left in Prophecy to "happen" except the Second Coming and the Last Judgment, which happens pretty much all at once and could happen at any time -- or not for another 2,000 years, we just don't know.

No Secret Rapture, No Great Tribulation, No Left Behind, No Battle of Armageddon (sorry, but Titus and Vespasian already gathered the Armies of the Beast together in the valley of Megiddo and destroyed Jerusalem with catapult hail-stones the weight of a talent back in the 3.5-year "time, times, and half a time" Jewish Wars of AD 66-70. Already happened). We're not waiting for anything "still to come" on the Prophetic calendar, except the Return of Jesus Christ.

Could come at any time, or maybe not any time soon. For all we know, God has it Predestined for the exact calendar day that the last of us fools stops trying to guess when it's going to happen. :D

megimoo
05-30-2011, 11:27 PM
Your not missing anything. It is simply cherry picked Scripture to prove whatever point he is trying to make. One can prove or disprove anything using bits of scripture that don't take in to account the whole message of the Bible.

As Christians we shouldn't worry about the end of days and just live life as Christ has asked us to, believing His return is imminent . If you live like that then prophecy will tend to take care of itself.Look to the The four prophecies of Daniel that have a common point shared between them: they all cover an extensively long period of history, from the time of Daniel, all the way up to the end of the world

http://www.remnantofgod.org/daniel2.htm

noonwitch
05-31-2011, 08:42 AM
The Book of Revelation was written during the reign of Caesar Nero in the Early 60s AD, according to the inscription on the front of the Syriac Manuscripts of Revelation itself.

The Beast of Revelation, Nero Caesar ("Neron Qesar" in Hebrew, with a Gematria value of 666), has already committed his rampages. Most of Revelation has already been fulfilled; at this point, we are living in The Church Age (figuratively, "a thousand years" or "a long aeon of time"). There's nothing left in Prophecy to "happen" except the Second Coming and the Last Judgment, which happens pretty much all at once and could happen at any time -- or not for another 2,000 years, we just don't know.

No Secret Rapture, No Great Tribulation, No Left Behind, No Battle of Armageddon (sorry, but Titus and Vespasian already gathered the Armies of the Beast together in the valley of Megiddo and destroyed Jerusalem with catapult hail-stones the weight of a talent back in the 3.5-year "time, times, and half a time" Jewish Wars of AD 66-70. Already happened). We're not waiting for anything "still to come" on the Prophetic calendar, except the Return of Jesus Christ.

Could come at any time, or maybe not any time soon. For all we know, God has it Predestined for the exact calendar day that the last of us fools stops trying to guess when it's going to happen. :D


That's pretty much how I read The Revelation.

drstevej
05-31-2011, 09:02 AM
2 Peter 3:14-15

14 So then, dear friends, since you are looking forward to this, make every effort to be found spotless, blameless and at peace with him. 15 Bear in mind that our Lordís patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him.

OrthodoxPresbyterian
06-02-2011, 07:10 PM
That's pretty much how I read The Revelation.

For the most part, I consider Revelation (except for the last few chapters) to be Fulfilled Prophecy, and thus one more solid evidence for the Divine Inspiration of Scripture.