PDA

View Full Version : Usama Bin Laden Has Been Buried at Sea



txradioguy
05-02-2011, 04:24 AM
Usama bin Laden has been buried at sea, a U.S. official told Fox News.

After bin Laden was killed in a raid by U.S. forces in Pakistan, the official said the body would be handled according to Islamic practice and tradition.

That practice calls for the body to be buried within 24 hours, the official said. Finding a country willing to accept the remains of the world's most wanted terrorist would have been difficult, the official said. So the U.S. decided to bury him at sea.

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/05/02/usama-bin-laden-buried-sea/

txradioguy
05-02-2011, 04:25 AM
This is a big big mistake.

hampshirebrit
05-02-2011, 04:57 AM
This is a big big mistake.

I don't know. "Osama sleeps with the fishes" kinda works for me. I would have preferred the remains to have been co-mingled with waste from a pork pie factory and THEN dumped at sea, but hey, we can't have everything.

txradioguy
05-02-2011, 05:04 AM
I don't know. "Osama sleeps with the fishes" kinda works for me. I would have preferred the remains to have been co-mingled with waste from a pork pie factory and THEN dumped at sea, but hey, we can't have everything.

I'm with you on that part. But irregardless of "Islamic Practices"...there needed to be camera crews from Al-Jazeera et al into where the body was to get hi res video and stills of his corpse.

Unless this has been done it allows the kooks on both sides to claim this is one big hoax.

And if the pictures and video HAS been recorded it needs to get out in wide distrubition ASAP.

hampshirebrit
05-02-2011, 05:05 AM
I'm with you on that part. But irregardless of "Islamic Practices"...there needed to be camera crews from Al-Jazeera et al into where the body was to get hi res video and stills of his corpse.

Unless this has been done it allows the kooks on both sides to claim this is one big hoax.

And if the pictures and video HAS been recorded it needs to get out in wide distrubition ASAP.

That I do agree with. There's already a torrent of bullshit from the left calling "Hoax".

txradioguy
05-02-2011, 05:08 AM
That I do agree with. There's already a torrent of bullshit from the left calling "Hoax".

Well if this administration wants to quell those "Hoax" rumors...not just from the left...but the ones that are already starting to come from this side of the world...they'd better get some pics and video out on the airwaves before the "On Air' light comes on for the morning shows.

CueSi
05-02-2011, 05:49 AM
Well if this administration wants to quell those "Hoax" rumors...not just from the left...but the ones that are already starting to come from this side of the world...they'd better get some pics and video out on the airwaves before the "On Air' light comes on for the morning shows.

Yeah... someone brought this up... We have pics of Saddams sons dead ... why didn't we do the same for Osama? Personally, I'd of excised his brain, a couple fingers and his genitals for safekeeping and to prove we actually DID IT and record the entire thing, but that's just how I roll.

~QC

malloc
05-02-2011, 06:17 AM
Well if this administration wants to quell those "Hoax" rumors...not just from the left...but the ones that are already starting to come from this side of the world...they'd better get some pics and video out on the airwaves before the "On Air' light comes on for the morning shows.

I don't think they want to quell any rumors. I think Obama's political team is well versed in manipulating the results of rumor. Sort of like this birther shit, they don't release the a birth certificate until some nutjob like Trump labels himself a Republican and goes off on a crusade, building the rumor to a crescendo. The whole while, Obama and his allies in the media are using the birther issue to marginalize a fringe group and then spreading out that marginalization with a broad brush to other opponents which have nothing to do with the original paranoia. So then they release this birth certificate with "layers" and other details that the fringe elements will latch onto, which leaves Obama's campaign team and his friends in the media with the ammunition to keep spreading the ridicule to groups who have nothing to do with the birther issue.

I don't think Obama's team planned this so much as they see the chance to strike for political opportunity in every single event. If a birther like conspiracy theory following grows out of the dumping of OBL's body, then that is more marginalization which they can spread around to those who don't deserve it while they are ridiculing those who do.

eagleexpress
05-02-2011, 06:46 AM
Yeah... someone brought this up... We have pics of Saddams sons dead ... why didn't we do the same for Osama? Personally, I'd of excised his brain, a couple fingers and his genitals for safekeeping and to prove we actually DID IT and record the entire thing, but that's just how I roll.

~QC

I like the way you think:D

JB
05-02-2011, 07:30 AM
I like to think of this as being waterboarded for eternity.

Bailey
05-02-2011, 08:13 AM
I wished they wouldve difiled his body with pigs blood or some such and made it very public.

Odysseus
05-02-2011, 08:15 AM
I like to think of this as being waterboarded for eternity.

LOL

I think that he should have been stuffed with pork, embalmed and put on permanent display at the Smithsonian.

Adam Wood
05-02-2011, 09:27 AM
This is a big big mistake.Well, I'm glad it's not just me.

I don't give a flying fuck about being sensitive to Islamic practices or whatever. We should have had his head on a pike looking out over the Potomac. Islamic practices can go jump in a fucking lake as far as I'm concerned.

Arroyo_Doble
05-02-2011, 09:29 AM
Well, I'm glad it's not just me.

I don't give a flying fuck about being sensitive to Islamic practices or whatever. We should have had his head on a pike looking out over the Potomac. Islamic practices can go jump in a fucking lake as far as I'm concerned.

Sometimes being exceptional is a pain in the ass.

Gingersnap
05-02-2011, 09:40 AM
I doubt this has anything to do with "Islamic practices". By dumping him in the ocean, we remove any potential shrine-of-the-martyr stuff.

Bailey
05-02-2011, 10:06 AM
I doubt this has anything to do with "Islamic practices". By dumping him in the ocean, we remove any potential shrine-of-the-martyr stuff.

I heard you had to face mecca for any islamic burial, so whats one defacement I am happy about.

Just wish pigs blood couldve been used :(

djones520
05-02-2011, 10:28 AM
I think I know how they buried him at sea. And I think it started at 34,000 feet. ;)

fettpett
05-02-2011, 10:38 AM
hey, they could have burried his ass at sea, after several weeks on display in NYC by the Freedom Tower, talk about a symbol to the terrorist that we aren't a "paper tiger"

Calypso Jones
05-02-2011, 10:39 AM
I'm with you on that part. But irregardless of "Islamic Practices"...there needed to be camera crews from Al-Jazeera et al into where the body was to get hi res video and stills of his corpse.

Unless this has been done it allows the kooks on both sides to claim this is one big hoax.

And if the pictures and video HAS been recorded it needs to get out in wide distrubition ASAP.

I don't consider myself a kook!! but doesn't this sorta reek just a bit?? BURIAL AT SEA!! Americans don't get to see the body to verify in their own sight that THIS IS THE GUY?? W.T. H. There should be video on every news channel all day long. Have you seen it??

Calypso Jones
05-02-2011, 10:41 AM
Conveniently lacking in evidence of a shot to the head...where's the photo? And the location. I'm sure the Pakis were totally clueless. Obama administration must thnk all americans are as stupid as their supporters. The smartest president in the world oughta have thought this thing thru. unless he did.

txradioguy
05-02-2011, 11:52 AM
I doubt this has anything to do with "Islamic practices". By dumping him in the ocean, we remove any potential shrine-of-the-martyr stuff.

The official explanation is that in keeping with Islamic tradition the body has to be buried within 24 hours of death.

No one thought they could find a country willing to take his remains within the time constraints.

And besides...it prevents anyone from building some kind of Martyrs shrine over where he's buried.

If a terrorist wants to visit his gravesite now...he's gonna have to drown himself to do it.

Articulate_Ape
05-02-2011, 11:54 AM
With any luck the bastard's coming out of a shark's ass right about now.

Zathras
05-02-2011, 12:10 PM
When I served in the Navy back in the 70s we used to dump trash over the side. Good to see it's still being done today.

txradioguy
05-02-2011, 12:10 PM
With any luck the bastard's coming out of a shark's ass right about now.

LOL! that's too fast of a consumption of his carcass for me.

I prefer to think of him at the bottom of the ocean as food for the crabs and other little sea creatures that live on the bottom.

A slow slow destruction of the remains.

megimoo
05-02-2011, 12:12 PM
LOL

I think that he should have been stuffed with pork, embalmed and put on permanent display at the Smithsonian.The Seals had the right orders .Make sure he's dead and keep the lawyers from making a hero out of his sorry ass at Gitmo.Holder would have had him out and a free man within a week !....I'm sure as part of the positive identification of the body along with uploaded a DNA scan they took a lot of pictures and tissue samples with them .By dumping the body from a C-130 they guaranteed it would splatter when it hit the water and feed the fish .

Once they had his tissue DNA samples they had no further need for his carcass .I wonder where the nearest water was,The Seals never like to be far away from the ocean .

Islamic custom my ass,they dumped his dead carcass where the Arabs couln't recover it and to get rid of the stink .The Seals have a way of leaving a bit of the pig with these Al Quada critters.The last Al Qaeda big shot, Abu Hamza Muhajir they nailed ,had a dried pigs ear stuffed down his throat when they planted him .

Zathras
05-02-2011, 12:19 PM
By dumping the body from a C-130 they guaranteed it would splatter when it hit the water and feed the fish.

Unfortunantly they didn't dump him from the back of a C-130. They dumped his ass off the stern of the carrier USS Carl Vinson, which makes sense since the SEALs probably flew to her directly after the mission.

PoliCon
05-02-2011, 12:22 PM
This is a big big mistake.

Why? it prevents his grave from becoming a pilgrimage point.

PoliCon
05-02-2011, 12:28 PM
Well, I'm glad it's not just me.

I don't give a flying fuck about being sensitive to Islamic practices or whatever. We should have had his head on a pike looking out over the Potomac. Islamic practices can go jump in a fucking lake as far as I'm concerned.

And if we did that - what do you think the end results would be?

txradioguy
05-02-2011, 12:29 PM
Why? it prevents his grave from becoming a pilgrimage point.

Getting rid of the body too quickly...without letting the media see and record his body draped out on a coroner's table lends credibility to the kooks who will and have already started saying this is a hoax.

As I said before I'd have brought in still and video journalists from all the Arab networks to let them record the evidence and then broadcast it to the world. We're coming up on 24 hours since this happened and nothing.

Event he video of Saddam being hun and the images of him being carried away with his head at that funny broken neck angle didn't take that long.

As graphic as they might have been there should have been hi res pics shown as the POTUS was making his announcement.

But here we are today...zero nada.

PoliCon
05-02-2011, 12:34 PM
Getting rid of the body too quickly...without letting the media see and record his body draped out on a coroner's table lends credibility to the kooks who will and have already started saying this is a hoax.

As I said before I'd have brought in still and video journalists from all the Arab networks to let them record the evidence and then broadcast it to the world. We're coming up on 24 hours since this happened and nothing.

Event he video of Saddam being hun and the images of him being carried away with his head at that funny broken neck angle didn't take that long.

As graphic as they might have been there should have been hi res pics shown as the POTUS was making his announcement.

But here we are today...zero nada.

The kooks are going to be kooks no matter what. I should think that the Truthers and Birthers have settled that by now . . . . As far as evidence for the islamic press - I prefer that they have doubts. Doubts weaken them.

txradioguy
05-02-2011, 12:44 PM
The kooks are going to be kooks no matter what. I should think that the Truthers and Birthers have settled that by now . . . . As far as evidence for the islamic press - I prefer that they have doubts. Doubts weaken them.

Doubts give them excuses to say it was a hoax...or that we killed innocents and said it was Bin Laden.

Doubt allows the al-Qaeda propaganda machine in Quetta to say he's alive.

PoliCon
05-02-2011, 12:48 PM
Doubts give them excuses to say it was a hoax...or that we killed innocents and said it was Bin Laden.

Doubt allows the al-Qaeda propaganda machine in Quetta to say he's alive.

And when he does not show his face? when he does not make a recorded statement? They may be able to milk this for a little while - true - but it weakens them.

Novaheart
05-02-2011, 12:49 PM
I'm with you on that part. But irregardless of "Islamic Practices"...there needed to be camera crews from Al-Jazeera et al into where the body was to get hi res video and stills of his corpse.

Unless this has been done it allows the kooks on both sides to claim this is one big hoax.

And if the pictures and video HAS been recorded it needs to get out in wide distrubition ASAP.

These days no one is going to believe a picture is real anyway, see Obama birth certificate and Joseph Farah.

Nope, there is a reason that enemies were dragged through the streets of their fallen capitals and then taken to Rome for a repeat performance: to stop the "He's not dead." bullshit. Even then, die hards will claim he transcended death and walks the earth as a spirit, even if their religion doesn't support that idea.

Most of the people of the world are slightly more intelligent than a Chinpanzee.

Arroyo_Doble
05-02-2011, 12:51 PM
Most of the people of the world are slightly more intelligent than a Chinpanzee.

Is that a Jay Leno reference?

txradioguy
05-02-2011, 01:00 PM
These days no one is going to believe a picture is real anyway, see Obama birth certificate and Joseph Farah.

Who?


Nope, there is a reason that enemies were dragged through the streets of their fallen capitals and then taken to Rome for a repeat performance: to stop the "He's not dead." bullshit. Even then, die hards will claim he transcended death and walks the earth as a spirit, even if their religion doesn't support that idea.

Ummm yeah ok. :rolleyes:


Most of the people of the world are slightly more intelligent than a Chinpanzee.

And you live in a very short sighted world. You need to look out beyond the end of your borders to where I'm at...where images like that count the most.

Lowest literacy rate in the world...here in Afghanistan...I wouldn't make any bets on that intelligence level.

Images like that might not have an effect on your and your Hampton Roads running buddies drinking coffee at Starbucks...but they'd go a LONG way over here.

Novaheart
05-02-2011, 01:02 PM
Is that a Jay Leno reference?

Now that's funny.

Novaheart
05-02-2011, 01:07 PM
Who?



Ummm yeah ok. :rolleyes:



And you live in a very short sighted world. You need to look out beyond the end of your borders to where I'm at...where images like that count the most.

Lowest literacy rate in the world...here in Afghanistan...I wouldn't make any bets on that intelligence level.

Images like that might not have an effect on your and your Hampton Roads running buddies drinking coffee at Starbucks...but they'd go a LONG way over here.

The pictures are better than nothing. I was just saying that the burial at sea thing has the potential to generate a "yeah right" factor. By the same token, if you give the remains to the Saudis, some famile member and doctor is likely to claim that it's not him.

Difficult choices as always.

Novaheart
05-02-2011, 01:11 PM
One down, 999,999,999 to go!

Arroyo_Doble
05-02-2011, 01:17 PM
One down, 999,999,999 to go!

The funny thing is, by disposing of his corpse in this manner, the United States gives the world the straight line to the joke which starts, "What do you call Osama bin Laden at the bottom of the ocean?"

Articulate_Ape
05-02-2011, 01:21 PM
Most of the people of the world are slightly more intelligent than a Chinpanzee.

Hey! :mad:

txradioguy
05-02-2011, 01:22 PM
The pictures are better than nothing. I was just saying that the burial at sea thing has the potential to generate a "yeah right" factor. By the same token, if you give the remains to the Saudis, some famile member and doctor is likely to claim that it's not him.

Yeah I don't think the Saudis would have wanted him. But I see what you mean.

What would really be nice...but won't be declassified until you and I are buried...is the helmet cam video from the SEALS that was recorded during the raid.


Difficult choices as always.

Yup.

Odysseus
05-02-2011, 02:22 PM
The official explanation is that in keeping with Islamic tradition the body has to be buried within 24 hours of death.
We're not Muslims. They are. Submitting to their tradition is just encroaching dhimmitude.


No one thought they could find a country willing to take his remains within the time constraints.

And besides...it prevents anyone from building some kind of Martyrs shrine over where he's buried.
The Ground Zero Victory Mosque will do nicely.


If a terrorist wants to visit his gravesite now...he's gonna have to drown himself to do it.
Or, we could drown them as a means of facilitating their martyrdom. Think of it as a permanent waterboarding. :D

There's only one appropriate way to do this:

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn163/Cassiopea525/Reiko/BurialAtSeaReiko.jpg

Arroyo_Doble
05-02-2011, 02:44 PM
We're not Muslims. They are.

Some of us are. Not alot (about the same as the number of Jews and Mormons, I believe), but some.


Submitting to their tradition is just encroaching dhimmitude.

Yea. The bullet in his brain was serious dhimmitude.

txradioguy
05-02-2011, 02:51 PM
Some of us are. Not alot (about the same as the number of Jews and Mormons, I believe), but some.



Yea. The bullet in his brain was serious dhimmitude.

Good job of carrying the water there fanboy.

Arroyo_Doble
05-02-2011, 02:56 PM
Good job of carrying the water there fanboy.

Which of your conflicting emotions do you think will win out, Tex? Your righteous elation that Bin Laden is dead or your bitter anger that it happened while a hated Democrat was Commander-in-Chief?

Odysseus
05-02-2011, 03:16 PM
Some of us are. Not alot (about the same as the number of Jews and Mormons, I believe), but some.
Highly unlikely.


Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life / Mapping the Global Muslim Population
www.pewforum.org

The Americas (51 countries and territories)
Of the approximately 4.6 million Muslims in the Americas, more than half, or about 2.5 million, live in the United States.9 But Canada has more than double the percentage of Muslims in the United States. Two percent of Canadians, about 700,000 people, are Muslim; in contrast, 0.8% of the U.S. population is Muslim.

The Jewish Virtual Library (http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/US-Israel/usjewpop.html) cites a figure of 6,452,030 Jews in the United States.


Yea. The bullet in his brain was serious dhimmitude.
No, but the culturally sensitive burial was. A Sharia-compliant burial tells the faithful that we are more afraid of offending them than we are of defending our own culture. A culturally aware administration that was committed to victory would have asked exactly what form of burial would send a message of confidence and belief in victory. Bin Laden's corpse should have been dragged through a pig sty and then tossed into the ocean by way of a large flush toilet.

Which of your conflicting emotions do you think will win out, Tex? Your righteous elation that Bin Laden is dead or your bitter anger that it happened while a hated Democrat was Commander-in-Chief?

Try not to project your bitterness on others. Bin Laden may be gone, but you still have Ayman al-Zawahiri.

txradioguy
05-02-2011, 03:31 PM
Which of your conflicting emotions do you think will win out, Tex? Your righteous elation that Bin Laden is dead or your bitter anger that it happened while a hated Democrat was Commander-in-Chief?

I'm turning cartwheels he's now fish food.

This is what you don't seem to grasp fanboy...I don't give a rats ass who was President when he got killed as long as he got killed.

This was a win for the U.S. and a loss for the terrorists. Not a one upsmanship game for Dems or Republicans.

I don't get wrapped up in this "yeah our guy got him and yours didn't" bullshit like you do.

Like the Major said...quit projecting your hatred on to me.

linda22003
05-02-2011, 03:39 PM
I don't give a rats ass who was President when he got killed as long as he got killed.



Yep. What he said.

Arroyo_Doble
05-02-2011, 03:48 PM
Highly unlikely.


Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life / Mapping the Global Muslim Population
www.pewforum.org

The Americas (51 countries and territories)
Of the approximately 4.6 million Muslims in the Americas, more than half, or about 2.5 million, live in the United States.9 But Canada has more than double the percentage of Muslims in the United States. Two percent of Canadians, about 700,000 people, are Muslim; in contrast, 0.8% of the U.S. population is Muslim.

The Jewish Virtual Library (http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/US-Israel/usjewpop.html) cites a figure of 6,452,030 Jews in the United States.



Less than I thought.

But still some.


No, but the culturally sensitive burial was. A Sharia-compliant burial tells the faithful that we are more afraid of offending them than we are of defending our own culture. A culturally aware administration that was committed to victory would have asked exactly what form of burial would send a message of confidence and belief in victory. Bin Laden's corpse should have been dragged through a pig sty and then tossed into the ocean by way of a large flush toilet.

Like I said, being exceptional is a pain in the ass.


Try not to project your bitterness on others.

I'm not. I am just observing and voicing (so to speak) my observations. And the more I see, the more it is clear that portions of the political right are ambivalent about the killing of our enemy number one.


Bin Laden may be gone, but you still have Ayman al-Zawahiri.

And many others, I'm sure. But one less, none the less.

hampshirebrit
05-02-2011, 04:18 PM
Which of your conflicting emotions do you think will win out, Tex? Your righteous elation that Bin Laden is dead or your bitter anger that it happened while a hated Democrat was Commander-in-Chief?

What utter crap. Do you really seriously think that Tex feels anything other than glad about this?

You must be mad. Who gives a shit what president was in the WH? All that matters is that bin Laden is gone.

eagleexpress
05-02-2011, 04:56 PM
They say a picture is worth a thousand words then show us his nasty scrawny ass. The media sure didn't flinch showing us the twin towers or the Pentagon:rolleyes:

Odysseus
05-02-2011, 05:29 PM
Less than I thought.
But still some.
Nobody said that there weren't some, but it's hardly the parity with Jews and LDS that you claimed.

Like I said, being exceptional is a pain in the ass.
This isn't about American exceptionalism. We were no more or less exceptional when we used pork as an interrogation and propaganda tool during the Moro Rebellion in the Philippines. The Moros used to conduct suicide attacks, just as jihadis today do. The solution was "...the custom of wrapping the dead man in a pig's skin and stuffing his mouth with pork. As the pig was an unclean animal, this was considered unspeakable defilement." When the Moros realized that they were going to face Allah with pork on their breathes, they stopped using the tactic.

The problem is that we aren't willing to take the necessary steps to defeat our enemies. Bin Laden's death is one part of the process. Defiling his body in such a way that he is damned for all eternity is another.


I'm not. I am just observing and voicing (so to speak) my observations. And the more I see, the more it is clear that portions of the political right are ambivalent about the killing of our enemy number one.
Minute portions, perhaps, unlike the substantially larger portions of the political left that were openly supportive of our enemy number one. And before you tell me that I'm making that up, a few of the more odious examples:


Michael Moore
"The Iraqis who have risen up against the occupation are not "insurgents" or "terrorists" or "The Enemy." They are the REVOLUTION"

Norman Mailer
"The WTC was not just an architectural monstrosity, but also terrible for people who didn't work there, for it said to all those people: 'If you can't work up here, boy, you're out of it.' ... Everything wrong with America led to the point where the country built that tower of Babel, which consequently had to be destroyed. And then came the next shock. We had to realize that the people that did this were brilliant. ... Americans can't admit that you need courage to do such a thing. For that might be misunderstood. The key thing is that we in America are convinced that it was blind, mad fanatics who didn't know what they were doing. But what if those perpetrators were right and we were not?"

Ted Rall
"Iraq's natural resources are being raped. Its people are being murdered. ... the patriotic Iraqi resistance .. is trying to stop these outrages by throwing out the perpetrators of an illegal war of aggression ... On July 5 a bomb killed seven recruits for a U.S.-trained Iraqi police force in Ramadi. .. Cops who work for a foreign army of occupation are not innocent. They are collaborators. Traitors. They had it coming."

Code Pink
Medea Benjamin, Code Pink, Global Exchange, and Families for Peace donated a combined $600,000 in medical supplies and cash to the families of the terrorist insurgents who were fighting American troops in Fallujah, Iraq.

PoliCon
05-02-2011, 06:21 PM
No, but the culturally sensitive burial was. A Sharia-compliant burial tells the faithful that we are more afraid of offending them than we are of defending our own culture. A culturally aware administration that was committed to victory would have asked exactly what form of burial would send a message of confidence and belief in victory. Bin Laden's corpse should have been dragged through a pig sty and then tossed into the ocean by way of a large flush toilet.

And if we dealt with it the way you suggest - how do you think our allies - among who are his own family - how do you think they would react to us having done what you suggest?


The only way we win this is by winning hearts and minds.

PoliCon
05-02-2011, 06:25 PM
Q for the military folks - burial at sea - did they just dump him into the water in a brown paper bag or was he boxed first or what? What kind of container would he be in?

Hawkgirl
05-02-2011, 06:29 PM
Q for the military folks - burial at sea - did they just dump him into the water in a brown paper bag or was he boxed first or what? What kind of container would he be in?


Probably dumped nekkid with some chum wrapped around his testicles, during the sharks feeding time...I believe they like to feed at night, the ocean comes alive at night.

Madisonian
05-02-2011, 07:25 PM
The only way we win this is by winning hearts and minds.

And when was the last time this worked?

PoliCon
05-02-2011, 07:29 PM
And when was the last time this worked?

Iraq for one. Japan for another. Of course Japan is a better example because we stuck that one out until the end and made sure everything was kosher before we even though about withdrawing.

Hawkgirl
05-02-2011, 07:29 PM
And when was the last time this worked?

Policon is smokin the funny stuff. He wants to humanize people who televised the beheading of Daniel Pearl.

PoliCon
05-02-2011, 07:33 PM
Policon is smokin the funny stuff. He wants to humanize people who televised the beheading of Daniel Pearl.

This is not about winning over Al Queda. This is about winning over the average joe muslim on the streets of afghanistan or any other place in the middle east.

Madisonian
05-02-2011, 07:40 PM
Iraq for one. Japan for another. Of course Japan is a better example because we stuck that one out until the end and made sure everything was kosher before we even though about withdrawing.

We are still in Iraq so I wouldn't count that one yet and Japan was not winning hearts and minds, it was dropping 2 nukes on them.
And we have been in Japan for 65 years since then so when exactly was "the end"?

PoliCon
05-02-2011, 07:43 PM
We are still in Iraq so I wouldn't count that one yet and Japan was not winning hearts and minds, it was dropping 2 nukes on them.
And we have been in Japan for 65 years since then so when exactly was "the end"?

:rolleyes: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupation_of_Japan

Madisonian
05-02-2011, 07:46 PM
:rolleyes: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupation_of_Japan

OK, so lets drop a couple nukes on Iraq and Afghanistan and in 7 years we can call our occupation ended.

Odysseus
05-02-2011, 10:55 PM
And if we dealt with it the way you suggest - how do you think our allies - among who are his own family - how do you think they would react to us having done what you suggest?
Officially? They'd scream bloody murder. Unofficially, our allies would be impressed, and our enemies would think twice.
Remember your Machiavelli: "It is better to be feared than to be loved." You cannot be universally loved. Some people will be envious of your success, some will hate you because it is their nature to hate, some will hate you because they don't understand you, and some will hate you because they do understand you, and some will love you only as long as you do things for them. Love is not practical as a means of ensuring political loyalty. But fear is universal. A nation that rewards its friends and punishes its enemies will have plenty of friends, some out of sincerity, some out of fear, but it will have few enemies.


The only way we win this is by winning hearts and minds.
If you've got them by the balls, their hearts and minds will follow.


Q for the military folks - burial at sea - did they just dump him into the water in a brown paper bag or was he boxed first or what? What kind of container would he be in?
It depends on the size of the toilet.

Iraq for one. Japan for another. Of course Japan is a better example because we stuck that one out until the end and made sure everything was kosher before we even though about withdrawing.

Iraq didn't go our way until we began kicking al Qaeda from one end of the country to the other. Japan was prepared to fight to the death until they realized that we had a weapon that could destroy them without our having to set foot on the islands.

Adam Wood
05-02-2011, 11:18 PM
Q for the military folks - burial at sea - did they just dump him into the water in a brown paper bag or was he boxed first or what? What kind of container would he be in?Per a couple of news reports I've been watching tonight, he was cleaned up and wrapped in linen, as apparently is Islamic custom for trips to the Davey Jones Locker.

PoliCon
05-02-2011, 11:25 PM
Per a couple of news reports I've been watching tonight, he was cleaned up and wrapped in linen, as apparently is Islamic custom for trips to the Davey Jones Locker.

and what measures did they take to make sure he didn't resurface?

PoliCon
05-02-2011, 11:29 PM
Officially? They'd scream bloody murder. Unofficially, our allies would be impressed, and our enemies would think twice.
Remember your Machiavelli: "It is better to be feared than to be loved." You cannot be universally loved. Some people will be envious of your success, some will hate you because it is their nature to hate, some will hate you because they don't understand you, and some will hate you because they do understand you, and some will love you only as long as you do things for them. Love is not practical as a means of ensuring political loyalty. But fear is universal. A nation that rewards its friends and punishes its enemies will have plenty of friends, some out of sincerity, some out of fear, but it will have few enemies. My thoughts on Machiavelli are this: I want to invent a time machine so I can go back in time and beat the shit out of that pompous bastard. :mad: That being said - I'd rather be respected than either feared or loved.



If you've got them by the balls, their hearts and minds will follow.doesn't work. As soon as you loosen your grip they revert. Do you wanna be handling arab balls all your life??



It depends on the size of the toilet. I'm being serious. I should think they put him in a box of some sort . . . . I mean they would have to have taken precautions to make sure he didn't resurface.



Iraq didn't go our way until we began kicking al Qaeda from one end of the country to the other. Japan was prepared to fight to the death until they realized that we had a weapon that could destroy them without our having to set foot on the islands. Iraq began going our way when we got the foreign fighters out of the way so we could deal with the actual Iraqi people.

txradioguy
05-03-2011, 12:09 AM
and what measures did they take to make sure he didn't resurface?

They weighted down the body bag he was put in before he was dumped over the side of the USS Carl Vinson

Arroyo_Doble
05-03-2011, 09:08 AM
Nobody said that there weren't some, but it's hardly the parity with Jews and LDS that you claimed.

This isn't about American exceptionalism. We were no more or less exceptional when we used pork as an interrogation and propaganda tool during the Moro Rebellion in the Philippines. The Moros used to conduct suicide attacks, just as jihadis today do. The solution was "...the custom of wrapping the dead man in a pig's skin and stuffing his mouth with pork. As the pig was an unclean animal, this was considered unspeakable defilement." When the Moros realized that they were going to face Allah with pork on their breathes, they stopped using the tactic.

The problem is that we aren't willing to take the necessary steps to defeat our enemies. Bin Laden's death is one part of the process. Defiling his body in such a way that he is damned for all eternity is another.


Minute portions, perhaps, unlike the substantially larger portions of the political left that were openly supportive of our enemy number one. And before you tell me that I'm making that up, a few of the more odious examples:


Michael Moore
"The Iraqis who have risen up against the occupation are not "insurgents" or "terrorists" or "The Enemy." They are the REVOLUTION"

Norman Mailer
"The WTC was not just an architectural monstrosity, but also terrible for people who didn't work there, for it said to all those people: 'If you can't work up here, boy, you're out of it.' ... Everything wrong with America led to the point where the country built that tower of Babel, which consequently had to be destroyed. And then came the next shock. We had to realize that the people that did this were brilliant. ... Americans can't admit that you need courage to do such a thing. For that might be misunderstood. The key thing is that we in America are convinced that it was blind, mad fanatics who didn't know what they were doing. But what if those perpetrators were right and we were not?"

Ted Rall
"Iraq's natural resources are being raped. Its people are being murdered. ... the patriotic Iraqi resistance .. is trying to stop these outrages by throwing out the perpetrators of an illegal war of aggression ... On July 5 a bomb killed seven recruits for a U.S.-trained Iraqi police force in Ramadi. .. Cops who work for a foreign army of occupation are not innocent. They are collaborators. Traitors. They had it coming."

Code Pink
Medea Benjamin, Code Pink, Global Exchange, and Families for Peace donated a combined $600,000 in medical supplies and cash to the families of the terrorist insurgents who were fighting American troops in Fallujah, Iraq.



Sucks to be the good guys, eh?

PoliCon
05-03-2011, 09:53 AM
They weighted down the body bag he was put in before he was dumped over the side of the USS Carl Vinson

Weighted body bag. That's what I thought - but wanted to ask. Thanks for the info.

Bailey
05-03-2011, 09:56 AM
They weighted down the body bag he was put in before he was dumped over the side of the USS Carl Vinson

I cant believe the befouled a US naval vessel with the likes of OBL, a garbage scowl maybe. :mad::mad:

stsinner
05-03-2011, 10:03 AM
I like to think of this as being waterboarded for eternity.

That's a good one!

Odysseus
05-03-2011, 10:24 AM
My thoughts on Machiavelli are this: I want to invent a time machine so I can go back in time and beat the shit out of that pompous bastard. :mad: That being said - I'd rather be respected than either feared or loved.
Respect is a combination of fear and love. Machiavelli got it absolutely right. Go back an read the Prince for his insights into the nature of leadership.


doesn't work. As soon as you loosen your grip they revert. Do you wanna be handling arab balls all your life??
Nope. But you don't have to handle them more than once, as long as that first squeeze gets their attention.

I'm being serious. I should think they put him in a box of some sort . . . . I mean they would have to have taken precautions to make sure he didn't resurface.
I'm sure that the body was weighted. A ship that size had to have someone from New Jersey who knows how to keep a body from floating to the surface. :D


Iraq began going our way when we got the foreign fighters out of the way so we could deal with the actual Iraqi people.
Except that the foreign fighters were getting aid from the Sunni, and were terrorizing the Shia. We had to demonstrate that we were prepared to do what was necessary to win before the locals would take the risk of assisting us in the eradication of the foreign fighters. Middle Eastern politics isn't about helping who you like, it's about calculating who can do the worst to you. If we failed to defeat the terrorists in Iraq, and left, anyone who helped us would have been cut to pieces. If we succeeded, then things would be much better, but the people had to see that we were willing to do what had to be done to win before they would stick their necks out.

Sucks to be the good guys, eh?

How would you know?

Arroyo_Doble
05-03-2011, 10:31 AM
How would you know?

Because I live in an exceptional nation.

PoliCon
05-03-2011, 11:17 AM
Respect is a combination of fear and love. Machiavelli got it absolutely right. Go back an read the Prince for his insights into the nature of leadership. Machiavelli was a tool and having to read anything he wrote more than once is cruel and unusual punishment. Two readings of the The Prince are more than enough thank you. I do not seek a third.



Nope. But you don't have to handle them more than once, as long as that first squeeze gets their attention. hummm . . . and how much pressure is enough but not too much? Because if you squeeze too hard you give them even more reason to hate you.


I'm sure that the body was weighted. A ship that size had to have someone from New Jersey who knows how to keep a body from floating to the surface. :D :D point taken.



Except that the foreign fighters were getting aid from the Sunni, and were terrorizing the Shia. We had to demonstrate that we were prepared to do what was necessary to win before the locals would take the risk of assisting us in the eradication of the foreign fighters. Middle Eastern politics isn't about helping who you like, it's about calculating who can do the worst to you. If we failed to defeat the terrorists in Iraq, and left, anyone who helped us would have been cut to pieces. If we succeeded, then things would be much better, but the people had to see that we were willing to do what had to be done to win before they would stick their necks out.


I do not deny that the situation is deadly complicated - but once we cleared out the foreign fighters it was then possible to win their hearts and minds. Would that be possible if they looked at us as people who dishonoured them and their faith?

NJCardFan
05-04-2011, 01:32 PM
I'm sure that the body was weighted. A ship that size had to have someone from New Jersey who knows how to keep a body from floating to the surface. :D
I'm offended....


















That they didn't ask me how this can be done.

Odysseus
05-04-2011, 05:25 PM
Because I live in an exceptional nation.
No, I meant, how would you know how it feels to be one of the good guys?

I'm offended....
That they didn't ask me how this can be done.
You are not the only guy from Joisey available for this detail.

Snookie was very helpful. :D