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megimoo
05-03-2011, 07:45 AM
Bin Laden assassination wasn’t the result of Barack’s strategic genius

It can be awkward when a dove tries to pass himself off as a war hero.

From the tone of President Obama’s speech Sunday night, it’d be easy to conclude he was the one who came up with the idea that America should hunt down and kill Osama bin Laden. He also made it sound like he was the one who formulated the takedown plan. We can look forward in coming days to details of the actual operation, emphasizing Mr. Obama’s intimate involvement. “Shortly after taking office,” the president said, “I directed Leon Panetta, the director of the CIA, to

Comments:
Exactomundo. When was catching or eliminating bin Laden not a high priority? If the trail of intelligence leading to bin Laden is as stated in numerous stories already posted, and more to come in the next days, then it is irrelevant that 0bama was in the White House that bin Laden was found at this time. He did okay the order to go and get him but we still are uncertain if that was alive if possible or to eliminate him.


http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/may/2/no-class-obama-snubs-bush-praises-himself/

Starbuck
05-03-2011, 08:50 AM
The article goes on to say,

Had Mr. Obama been in Mr. Bush’s position on Sept. 11, 2001, bin Laden would still be alive today, and probably winning.
And that's a fact. But fact or not I remember my son in law, the liberal Democrat, pouting because we were "getting our ass kicked" in the middle east. Liberals predict failure. And when failure refuses to occur they work harder at it.

Lanie
05-03-2011, 09:08 AM
How can people say Obama would be willing to let Osama get away with things and let them win when he directed the CIA to kill him? He gave the order to kill him. Hello?


If conservatives are going to cry wolf, at least make the appearance of a wolf. Otherwise, they can't be believed. Seriously, conservatives cry wolf so much that I don't even believe them when it's real.

Arroyo_Doble
05-03-2011, 09:10 AM
Interesting that they use the word "assassination."

Starbuck
05-03-2011, 09:21 AM
How can people say Obama would be willing to let Osama get away with things and let them win when he directed the CIA to kill him? He gave the order to kill him. Hello?


If conservatives are going to cry wolf, at least make the appearance of a wolf. Otherwise, they can't be believed. Seriously, conservatives cry wolf so much that I don't even believe them when it's real.

Crying wolf is calling out a false danger.

Crying Foul is what was done in this case. And Foul was called because as a candidate Obama was opposed to the very actions that resulted in the death of UBL. I am speaking, of course, of the vigorous interrogations carried on at Gitmo.

To Obama's credit, he did announce early on that he would strike in Pakistan if necessary.

To Obama's detriment, he managed the strike exactly the way Carter did. He got away with micro-managing the affair; Carter did not. In either case it should not be micro-managed at the level it was.........can you imagine trying to accomplish the mission with the entire executive staff watching over your shoulder? It's poor management, and it will work against him in the long run.

Arroyo_Doble
05-03-2011, 09:33 AM
Crying Foul is what was done in this case. And Foul was called because as a candidate Obama was opposed to the very actions that resulted in the death of UBL. I am speaking, of course, of the vigorous interrogations carried on at Gitmo.

Where is the evidence of this? This sounds like propaganda based on nothing.

Arroyo_Doble
05-03-2011, 09:55 AM
Hmmm.

Waterboarding stopped in 2003. 8 years is a mightly long fuse on that ticking time bomb.

Bailey
05-03-2011, 09:57 AM
Hmmm.

Waterboarding stopped in 2003. 8 years is a mightly long fuse on that ticking time bomb.

Or so they say......

Starbuck
05-03-2011, 10:00 AM
Where is the evidence of this? This sounds like propaganda based on nothing.
I don't think the detainees at Gitmo - the ones Obama wanted to spoon feed and treat like Jaywalkers - just blurted out the identity of Bin Laden's courier.
Proof? There can be none, of course. Can't prove that those guys at Gitmo are a threat; can't prove that they will go back and kill Americans if released; can't prove that they would have given valuable information just by being asked once. Can't prove any of that.

But that's why you asked for it. There is no proof. And even if there were you wouldn't accept it. It's sort of like waking up in the morning, seeing snow on the ground and asking for proof that it snowed. Can't prove it. Didn't see it. "Reasonable proof", call it. But if you don't believe vigorous interrogation culled forth valuable information, then you're just not going to believe it, that's all.

Prove that your wife/girlfriend/boyfriend has been faithful. Go ahead. Prove it. See? Based "on nothing".

Arroyo_Doble
05-03-2011, 10:05 AM
I don't think the detainees at Gitmo - the ones Obama wanted to spoon feed and treat like Jaywalkers - just blurted out the identity of Bin Laden's courier.
Proof? There can be none, of course. Can't prove that those guys at Gitmo are a threat; can't prove that they will go back and kill Americans if released; can't prove that they would have given valuable information just by being asked once. Can't prove any of that.

But that's why you asked for it. There is no proof. And even if there were you wouldn't accept it. It's sort of like waking up in the morning, seeing snow on the ground and asking for proof that it snowed. Can't prove it. Didn't see it. "Reasonable proof", call it. But if you don't believe vigorous interrogation culled forth valuable information, then you're just not going to believe it, that's all.

Prove that your wife/girlfriend/boyfriend has been faithful. Go ahead. Prove it. See? Based "on nothing".

No, I asked for it because it is an incredible claim. It is also the type of thing that would come from those who want to justify the actions of the previous administration with regards to the treatment of detainees. They did not get bin Laden, not to mention the ticking time bomb, with waterboarding so they want to take the events of 8 years later as retroactive justification.

I call bullshit.

Starbuck
05-03-2011, 10:11 AM
No, I asked for it because it is an incredible claim. It is also the type of thing that would come from those who want to justify the actions of the previous administration with regards to the treatment of detainees. They did not get bin Laden, not to mention the ticking time bomb, with waterboarding so they want to take the events of 8 years later as retroactive justification.

I call bullshit.

Well, there you go. you win.;)

txradioguy
05-03-2011, 10:20 AM
Where is the evidence of this? This sounds like propaganda based on nothing.

Once again doing your work for you fanboy.



Years of intelligence gathering, including details gleaned from controversial interrogations of Al Qaeda members during the Bush administration, ultimately led the Navy SEALs who killed Usama bin Laden to his compound in Pakistan.

The initial threads of intelligence began surfacing in 2003 and came in the form of information about a trusted bin Laden courier, a senior U.S. official told Fox News on condition of anonymity. Bin Laden had cut off all traditional lines of communication with his network by this time because the Al Qaeda leader knew the U.S. intelligence community was monitoring him. It was said that he also didn't even trust his most loyal men to know his whereabouts and instead communicated only through couriers.

But it was four years later, in 2007, that terror suspects at the Guantanamo Bay military prison started giving up information about the key courier.

Around this time, the use of enhanced interrogation tactics, including waterboarding, a form of simulated drowning, were being denounced as torture by critics of the Bush administration. President George W. Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney came under intense pressure for supporting rough treatment of prisoners. Critics claimed that any information given under duress simply couldn't be trusted.

It is an argument that Bush and Cheney strongly rejected then, and now.

"I would assume that the enhanced interrogation program that we put in place produced some of the results that led to bin Laden's ultimate capture," Cheney told Fox News on Monday, a hint of vindication in his voice.

The White House on Tuesday sought to downplay the role that Bush-era interrogations played in gathering the information that led to bin Laden's death.

"Some of it came from individuals who were in custody. Some of it came from human sources," counterterrorism adviser John Brennan told Fox News. "But there was no single bit of information that was instrumental."

Brennan acknowledged that "those in detention" provided key information, but stressed that it was obtained in a variety of different ways.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/05/02/bush-era-interrogations-provided-key-details-bin-ladens-location/

Arroyo_Doble
05-03-2011, 10:21 AM
Fox with vague references and an unnamed source?

No sale.

djones520
05-03-2011, 10:23 AM
Hmmm.

Waterboarding stopped in 2003. 8 years is a mightly long fuse on that ticking time bomb.

Waterboarding is the only method of "enhanced interrogation"? I think not.

And it's already been acknowledged that "key information" came from Bush era interrogations.

The trail had to start somewhere. And it probably wouldn't have started at all if Obama's kid gloves where in place whent his info came up.

Rockntractor
05-03-2011, 10:27 AM
Fox with vague references and an unnamed source?

No sale.

You might as well get used to fox, the only place it is not reliable is in your lib talking points, in reality it is probably the only unbiased news source in television.

Arroyo_Doble
05-03-2011, 10:29 AM
Waterboarding is the only method of "enhanced interrogation"? I think not.

And it's already been acknowledged that "key information" came from Bush era interrogations.

The trail had to start somewhere. And it probably wouldn't have started at all if Obama's kid gloves where in place whent his info came up.

There it is.

Propaganda works. Now, you have successfully turned an event which occurred at the direction of a hated Democratic CinC into a Republican victory. Congratulations.

BTW, another story on this: The Link (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_bin_laden_hunt_for_bin_laden)

Arroyo_Doble
05-03-2011, 10:30 AM
You might as well get used to fox, the only place it is not reliable is in your lib talking points, in reality it is probably the only unbiased news source in television.

Yea. I keep hearing them say that over and over and over and over and over ........

Novaheart
05-03-2011, 10:30 AM
Oh for God's sake. Must you folks act like this every minute of every day?

President Reagan got to announce the release of the hostages. Sometimes it works that way.

txradioguy
05-03-2011, 10:34 AM
Fox with vague references and an unnamed source?

No sale.

Of course I expected you to shit on the source fanboy...you're too predictable that way.


Detainees at Guantanamo Bay provided the crucial breakthrough in hunting down Osama Bin Laden, American officials said last night.

Senior officials in the Obama administration said intelligence gained from interrogations at the U.S. base was directly responsible for helping security forces track down and kill Bin Laden.

The claim will fuel the international row about the Guantanamo camp – one of the most controversial legacies of the 9/11 attacks on the U.S. – and whether torture can ever be justified.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1382893/Osama-Bin-Laden-dead-Guantanamo-detainees-led-CIA-Abbottabad-hideout.html

Read that and then go out on 635 and play a game of hide and go fuck yourself.

Rockntractor
05-03-2011, 10:35 AM
Yea. I keep hearing them say that over and over and over and over and over ........

You are not going to convince us that Fox does nothing but lie by spewing lib talking points, we require facts and proof. so save your little typey finger by putting it back in your nose.:D

txradioguy
05-03-2011, 10:36 AM
You might as well get used to fox, the only place it is not reliable is in your lib talking points, in reality it is probably the only unbiased news source in television.

Don't tell that to fanboy...he thinks Al-Jazeera English is the only honest news network in the world.

Arroyo_Doble
05-03-2011, 10:37 AM
You are not going to convince us that Fox does nothing but lie by spewing lib talking points, we require facts and proof. so save your little typey finger by putting it back in your nose.:D

I am not trying to convince you of anything. And I rarely type with my pinkie.

txradioguy
05-03-2011, 10:37 AM
Oh for God's sake. Must you folks act like this every minute of every day?

President Reagan got to announce the release of the hostages. Sometimes it works that way.

Don't have a problem with that.

The issue is being created by fanboy here feeling the need to come in and piss on every positive thread about us whacking bin Laden.

He wants everyone to be as miserable as he is.

Rockntractor
05-03-2011, 10:41 AM
How can people say Obama would be willing to let Osama get away with things and let them win when he directed the CIA to kill him? He gave the order to kill him. Hello?




http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/vv230/upyourstruly/valley_girl.gif

Rockntractor
05-03-2011, 10:43 AM
I am not trying to convince you of anything. And I rarely type with my pinkie.

:D

djones520
05-03-2011, 10:46 AM
How can people say Obama would be willing to let Osama get away with things and let them win when he directed the CIA to kill him? He gave the order to kill him. Hello?


I doubt anybody really thinks that Obama would have done nothing if he were in office when 9/11 happened. What we believe is that he would not have taken the proper steps to get the job done. He would have made efforts, but probably the wrong ones.

Honestly though, who knows. I don't find it hard to believe that had he been in office when it happened, things like waterboarding never would have become a political issue. But because the differant political persuasion was using it, it became pariah for those trying to gain office.

NJCardFan
05-03-2011, 12:26 PM
No, I asked for it because it is an incredible claim. It is also the type of thing that would come from those who want to justify the actions of the previous administration with regards to the treatment of detainees. They did not get bin Laden, not to mention the ticking time bomb, with waterboarding so they want to take the events of 8 years later as retroactive justification.

I call bullshit.

Soooo, you think they got this idiot at Gitmo and asked him nicely?:rolleyes: They interviewed a retired general last night on O'Reilly and he said waterboarding was used. So I'll take the word of a retired general over yours any day.

NJCardFan
05-03-2011, 12:31 PM
How can people say Obama would be willing to let Osama get away with things and let them win when he directed the CIA to kill him? He gave the order to kill him. Hello?


If conservatives are going to cry wolf, at least make the appearance of a wolf. Otherwise, they can't be believed. Seriously, conservatives cry wolf so much that I don't even believe them when it's real.

Um, I guess you're too young to remember how Clinton handled the embassy bombings in Africa. The Sudan offered Bin Laden on a silver platter and Clinton refused. Instead, he bombed an aspirin factory as well as a few 10 cent tents in the desert.

megimoo
05-03-2011, 04:13 PM
Um, I guess you're too young to remember how Clinton handled the embassy bombings in Africa. The Sudan offered Bin Laden on a silver platter and Clinton refused. Instead, he bombed an aspirin factory as well as a few 10 cent tents in the desert.

Someday you will learn about Bridgit/Lannie ?She thrives on discourse and off the wall
comments......She and the Gator would sometime get into an argument that would last fifty pages ....He was always very patient with her but eventually he would give up and slip away.....She rambles and argues over every petty detail and will eventually drive you nuts.She seems to be a kind human being but mostly confused .

Odysseus
05-03-2011, 04:55 PM
Someday you will learn about Bridgit/Lannie ?She thrives on discourse and off the wall
comments......She and the Gator would sometime get into an argument that would last fifty pages ....He was always very patient with her but eventually he would give up and slip away.....She rambles and argues over every petty detail and will eventually drive you nuts.She seems to be a kind human being but mostly confused .

Gator? Patient?

megimoo
05-03-2011, 05:01 PM
Gator? Patient?She's a goy !

malloc
05-03-2011, 05:31 PM
I don't think we will know if the torture or "aggressive interrogation" or whatever it is called had any effect, except through media speculation, because I'm pretty sure that information, and how it was obtained will remain classified for quite a while.

A lot of the credit for this accomplishment, as well as many other accomplishments, should go to structural and communication path changes Bush made to the relationship between our intelligence agencies and the Pentagon. These changes have been evolving for 10 years now, as they were brought about shortly after 9/11. The Bush administration coupled the Pentagon to the CIA without all the hoops and run-around of congressional committees and political jockeying. This improved coordination allows the military to plan around the intelligence as it comes in, and allows the intelligence agencies direct access to military intelligence assets. That's not saying Obama would or wouldn't have made the same kind of changes, if he had been in office on 9/11, it's just saying that Bush was the guy who pulled the trigger on this restructuring, which has been giving us proven results on the battlefield for 10 years, and has been improving this whole time. I think Obama sending Patreus to the CIA is a continuation of this type of close knit cooperation.

I read a great article on the many improvements in both intelligence gathering and response these changes made, but I can't find it anywhere now.

Odysseus
05-03-2011, 06:37 PM
She's a goy !

Ah. :D