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View Full Version : Okay, so Earth IS rare … and who predicted that?



FlaGator
05-17-2011, 06:09 PM
I found this interesting...



Here’s (http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg21028122.700-no-place-like-home-our-lonesome-solar-system.html?DCMP=NLC-nletter&nsref=mg21028122.700) Lee Billings at New Scientist coming to the point with admirable swiftness:

Two decades of searching have failed to turn up another planetary system like ours. Should we be worried?- “No place like home: Our lonesome solar system” (11 May 2011)
He answers his own question, in part:

It was clear we had ignored a fundamental rule of science. “We had been judging the cosmic diversity of planetary systems based on a sample size of one,” says Marcy.
If these were the first hints that our solar system was not normal, they were not the last. Other planets were soon caught breaking all sorts of rules: orbiting in the opposite direction to their star’s spin, coming packed in close orbits like sardines in a can, or revolving on wildly tilted orbits far away from their star’s equator.
Soon “theorists began to supply the necessary creation stories.”
Billings brings us up to date on how planets are detected, then comes the punch line:

All this makes the status of our solar system increasingly clear. “Our system is a rarity, there’s no longer a question about that,” says Marcy. “The only question that remains is, just how rare is it?”
Expelled (http://collidinguniverses.blogspot.com/2011/01/what-if-scientism-had-to-pay-its-own.html) ID guy Guillermo Gonzalez (http://collidinguniverses.blogspot.com/2011/01/astronomer-who-paid-dearly-for-dissing.html) predicted (http://collidinguniverses.blogspot.com/2008/05/study-sun-not-special-therefore-alien.html) this state of affairs. Here (http://www.astrobio.net/exclusive/139/galactic-habitable-zones), for example, in 2001:

When all of these factors occur together, they create a region of space that Gonzalez calls a “Galactic Habitable Zone.” Gonzalez believes every form of life on our planet – from the simplest bacteria to the most complex animal – owes its existence to the balance of these unique conditions.Because of this, states Gonzalez, “I believe both simple life and complex life are very rare, but complex life, like us, is probably unique in the observable Universe.”
- Leslie Mullen, “Galactic Habitable Zones,” Astrobiology Magazine, 05/18/01
Gonzalez was then Assistant Professor of Astronomy at the University of Washington (1999-2001). Mullen’s decade-old article is free of the hostility (http://www.evolutionnews.org/2007/05/biosketch_of_dr_guillermo_gonz003618.html) that later dogged Gonzalez when, at Iowa State University,

After the release of Privileged Planet, ISU religious studies professor Hector Avalos–faculty advisor to the campus Atheist and Agnostic Society–began publicly campaigning against Dr. Gonzalez and his work. Although Dr. Gonzalez had never introduced intelligent design into his classes, Avalos helped spearhead a faculty petition urging “all faculty” at ISU to “uphold the integrity of our university” by “reject[ing] efforts to portray Intelligent Design as science.” Avalos later conceded to a local newspaper that Gonzalez was the key motive for the petition. The logical conclusion of this campaign against Dr. Gonzalez came in the spring of 2007, when ISU President Gregory Geoffroy denied Dr. Gonzalez’s application for tenure.
Avalos’ success has been widely considered a great victory for “science.”


This is the whole blog post, but here is the link anyways (http://www.uncommondescent.com/extraterrestrial-life/okay-so-earth-is-rare-and-who-predicted-that/)

djones520
05-17-2011, 06:15 PM
100 billion stars in our galaxy, with a hundred billion galaxies.

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and just say while we may be rare, I doubt we're unique.

Gingersnap
05-17-2011, 06:21 PM
Interesting reading. :)

Arroyo_Doble
05-17-2011, 06:22 PM
And God said, "Let there be a speed of light."

FlaGator
05-17-2011, 06:23 PM
100 billion stars in our galaxy, with a hundred billion galaxies.

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and just say while we may be rare, I doubt we're unique.

Until another planet with life is found, we will have to assume the uniqueness of our world.

Arroyo_Doble
05-17-2011, 06:25 PM
Until another planet with life is found, we will have to assume the uniqueness of our world.

What about within this solar system (and not necessarily a planet but also a moon)?

FlaGator
05-17-2011, 06:28 PM
What about within this solar system (and not necessarily a planet but also a moon)?

Find life and then we will no longer be unique and at the same time we would have to reconsider the possibility that we are rare if scientists could prove that the DNA in both places had separate origins.

wilbur
05-17-2011, 07:24 PM
I think its still only anybody's best guess as to whether earth-like planets are rare or not. We can pretend like we've made some significant progress by making all these lists of criteria, like galactic inhabitable zones, for planets habitable for life, etc... but we simply have no idea if any of it holds, since our sample size of known planets is so small.

Its unclear which philosophical camp gains an advantage if Earth is rare or not. Atheist/theists can use either position to sort of support their views. eg, If Earth is rare, obviously the universe is not fine tuned for life.. or if Earth is rare, obviously it is fine tuned for human existence, etc.

fettpett
05-17-2011, 07:33 PM
Its unclear which philosophical camp gains an advantage if Earth is rare or not. Atheist/theists can use either position to sort of support their views. eg, If Earth is rare, obviously the universe is not fine tuned for life.. or if Earth is rare, obviously it is fine tuned for human existence, etc.

yes, but they can not explain how the Earth is in the PERFECT place in the galaxy and solar system for life to be supported, until life is found that lives outside these areas at proves it otherwise,

wilbur
05-17-2011, 07:35 PM
yes, but they can not explain how the Earth is in the PERFECT place in the galaxy and solar system for life to be supported, until life is found that lives outside these areas at proves it otherwise,

And fine-tuners would have a hard time giving a convincing explanation as to why %99.9999999......999 of a "finely tuned universe" is so inhospitable to life.

Michael Moore
05-17-2011, 08:26 PM
Oh sure, like we haven't done enough to ruin this planet already. Now we have to go exploit some other peaceful planet and take everything they have too? Filthy fascist corporate pigs!
Well, if you can afford to launch an armada of space ships to plunder other planets then you can afford to pay more taxes to fix what's been ruined here on Earth first!

I am always right!

http://thepeoplescube.com/images/Free_Pluto_150.gif

Rockntractor
05-17-2011, 08:29 PM
Testify Mikey!:D



CU where you get Moore for less!

Rockntractor
05-17-2011, 09:55 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qo0GdGgMFzM

Michael Moore
05-17-2011, 10:40 PM
P,P,PPHHHTTTTTTTT... !!!

This is better-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZjnGhYVeHAc

I am always right!

wilbur
05-18-2011, 12:01 AM
Rock, you are not funny, and neither are your sock puppets. Jesus what drugs were the admins on when they made your idiot ass a mod?

Rockntractor
05-18-2011, 12:04 AM
Rock, you are not funny, and neither are your sock puppets. Jesus what drugs were the admins on when they made your idiot ass a mod?

You can insult me personally and that's fine but yapping about why they made me a mod will get you time out, this is your warning!

wilbur
05-18-2011, 12:09 AM
You can insult me personally and that's fine but yapping about why they made me a mod will get you time out, this is your warning!

Excellent!

SaintLouieWoman
05-18-2011, 12:11 AM
Rock, you are not funny, and neither are your sock puppets. Jesus what drugs were the admins on when they made your idiot ass a mod?

It's not alright to insult the mods, and not in the mood to put up with your comment that SR and I were on drugs. :mad:

Rock and the other mods do a good job and are very tolerant. They've really helped, especially since SR's stroke. My personal patience with you is dwindling rapidly.

Consider this a major warning. If you persist, perhaps a vacation might be a good thing for a while.

MrsSmith
05-18-2011, 12:17 AM
And fine-tuners would have a hard time giving a convincing explanation as to why %99.9999999......999 of a "finely tuned universe" is so inhospitable to life.

Because God wants to keep us home, of course.

Rockntractor
05-18-2011, 12:21 AM
Mr. Moore isn't my sock but I wished I had thought of him!:D

wilbur
05-18-2011, 12:36 AM
Because God wants to keep us home, of course.

Post-hoc rationalization.

There's every reason to think God would want us to populate the universe that he so "finely tuned" for life... of that this universe would be teeming with life.

fettpett
05-18-2011, 01:11 AM
Post-hoc rationalization.

There's every reason to think God would want us to populate the universe that he so "finely tuned" for life... of that this universe would be teeming with life.

at lest you're consistent, doesn't matter where it is in this forum, when damn near anything comes up and has to do with religion you've got to pipe in with your anti-Christianity, anti-theistic tripe, it's getting old dude

wilbur
05-18-2011, 01:15 AM
at lest you're consistent, doesn't matter where it is in this forum, when damn near anything comes up and has to do with religion you've got to pipe in with your anti-Christianity, anti-theistic tripe, it's getting old dude

Actually, in this thread, I basically called in a draw, and said it was unclear whether rare-earth (or not) provided and advantage to atheism or theism.

Arguments can go either way.

fettpett
05-18-2011, 01:18 AM
Actually, in this thread, I basically called in a draw, and said it was unclear whether rare-earth (or not) provided and advantage to atheism or theism.

Arguments can go either way.

maybe in this particular case, but that's not what you are known for doing, and it's not the way you are coming across.

wilbur
05-18-2011, 01:36 AM
maybe in this particular case, but that's not what you are known for doing, and it's not the way you are coming across.

Well, admittedly... in most cases, theism fails miserably at explaining things :)

fettpett
05-18-2011, 01:48 AM
Well, admittedly... in most cases, theism fails miserably at explaining things :)

only to you

FlaGator
05-18-2011, 09:17 AM
Well, admittedly... in most cases, theism fails miserably at explaining things :)

That is a highly suspect and biased statement.

fettpett
05-18-2011, 11:17 AM
That is a highly suspect and biased statement.

do you expect anything less from our resident anti-theist? and libtards claim to be soooo open minded:rolleyes:

FlaGator
05-18-2011, 11:27 AM
Post-hoc rationalization.

There's every reason to think God would want us to populate the universe that he so "finely tuned" for life... of that this universe would be teeming with life.

You are now presuming to know the mind of God?

wilbur
05-18-2011, 03:55 PM
You are now presuming to know the mind of God?

Nope - just that I have as much warrant to theorize about his possible motives as MrsSmith does, when she says stuff like:



Because God wants to keep us home, of course.

FlaGator
05-18-2011, 07:10 PM
Nope - just that I have as much warrant to theorize about his possible motives as MrsSmith does, when she says stuff like:

I suspect that she knows the mind of God no better than you or I.