PDA

View Full Version : Beauty queen Katya Koren stoned to death by Muslims for being in pageant



Odysseus
05-31-2011, 04:13 PM
BY Larry Mcshane
DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITER
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/2011/05/31/2011-05-31_beauty_queen_stoned_to_death_by_muslims_for_bei ng_in_pageant.html
http://assets.nydailynews.com/img/2011/06/01/alg_stone_katya-koren.jpg
via Facebook
Katya Koren, 19, was stoned to death by three Muslim men because she participated in a beauty contest, officials say.

Tuesday, May 31st 2011, 11:21 AM

A would-be teen beauty queen was stoned to death after her participation in a Ukranian pageant reportedly infuriated local Muslim youths.

Katya Koren, 19, was targeted by three fellow teens who said her seventh-place finish in the beauty contest was a violation of Muslim laws, according to British newspaper reports.

One of the suspects, identified as 16-year-old Bihal Gaziev, told authorities that he had no regrets about the stoning because the dark-haired Koren "violated the laws of Sharia."

The teen's battered body was found buried in the forest near her village in the Crimea section of the Ukraine. She had disappeared a week earlier.

Koren, described by friends as a stylish dresser, finished seventh in the beauty pageant. The British newspapers said the girl, just like her attackers, was a Muslim.

Stoning became a major international issue last year when an Iranian woman was sentenced to die by the barbaric method after her conviction for adultery.

The woman had killed her abusive, drug-addicted husband - and was sentenced to serve 10 years for the killing. The adultery charge carried the death penalty.

But the woman's life was spared after an international appeal for mercy, including a request from the Vatican for clemency.

lmcshane@nydailynews.com

Articulate_Ape
05-31-2011, 04:36 PM
Fucking savages.

Zafod
05-31-2011, 04:46 PM
Fucking savages.

agreed

pyackog
05-31-2011, 05:10 PM
Fucking savages.

Not only fucking savages but fucking pussy savages. If they felt they were in the right, they shouldn't have had to hide the body after they were done.

How much you wanna bet the little fucks raped her first?

Starbuck
05-31-2011, 05:17 PM
Fucking savages.

I ain't normally given to express myself in that manner, but those assholes are real fuckin savages. God Bless her soul. And God Damn theirs.:mad:

Rcd
05-31-2011, 05:17 PM
The religion of peace. How anyone can defend this barbarism is beyond me. I know, I know, it's only a few they say. But the religion espouses it and Sharia legitimizes it.

It's times like this when I say pull the troops out and light the fucking place up.

She was a beautiful young lady. What a waste.

lacarnut
05-31-2011, 05:28 PM
The religion of peace. How anyone can defend this barbarism is beyond me. I know, I know, it's only a few they say. But the religion espouses it and Sharia legitimizes it.

It's times like this when I say pull the troops out and light the fucking place up.

She was a beautiful young lady. What a waste.

What is worrisome is the liberal media, democratic congress critters and organization like NOW have little to say about it cause they do not want to offend these monsters or their savage customs.

I am with you on pulling the troops out and lighting the place up. I would love to see someone like storming Norman run for Prez.

Rcd
05-31-2011, 05:46 PM
What is worrisome is the liberal media, democratic congress critters and organization like NOW have little to say about it cause they do not want to offend these monsters or their savage customs.

I am with you on pulling the troops out and lighting the place up. I would love to see someone like storming Norman run for Prez.

I hear ya dude.

Odysseus
05-31-2011, 06:14 PM
What is worrisome is the liberal media, democratic congress critters and organization like NOW have little to say about it cause they do not want to offend these monsters or their savage customs.

Would that it were that simple. The media, Democrats and the left have no problem offending people, provided that it's the right people. This is why they defend Crucifixes in urine and flag burning, but are horrified by a barbequed Qur'an. It's also why they are outraged by things like the "glass ceiling", which appears to keep upper middle class women from becoming middle upper class women, but girls who have been stoned to death for appearing in a bathing suit, or had acid thrown in their faces for daring to pursue an education aren't on their radar. The reason for this is that the left doesn't care about anything but power, and they know that a free, strong America is not conducive to their desires, so they side with anyone who can tear it down. This has been the pattern for as long as there has been a left. It's why the communists in Germany voted for the Nazis in 1933, because once liberty was expunged, they could fight for control. Today, leftists who claim to be committed to a host of PC positions openly support jihadis who oppose everything that they claim to stand for:

Progressives align with Salafists who seek to return the world to the seventh century.
Feminists align with Wahabbi misogynists.
Civil libertarians side with totalitarian Sharia scholars.
Peace activists make excuses for the atrocities of violent jihadis.
College faculty praise the "scholarship" of universities that teach nothing but the Qur'an.
Gay activists appear at rallies for Hamas, which executes gays and lesbians.

And at the end of the day, they will end up subjected to the tender mercies of the thugs that they facilitate.

lacarnut
05-31-2011, 06:51 PM
I hear ya dude.

If Norman became Prez, the sand monkeys would be shitting bricks. Leveling all of Tehran government buildings would be a good start. No targets where terrorism exist should be excluded from annihilation. Let's get this shit over with once and for all without putting boots on the ground.

Rcd
05-31-2011, 07:14 PM
If Norman became Prez, the sand monkeys would be shitting bricks. Leveling all of Tehran government buildings would be a good start. No targets where terrorism exist should be excluded from annihilation. Let's get this shit over with once and for all without putting boots on the ground.

I agree, unfortunately the United States has become a pussified. What with the homo's in the service and a bunch of pussies in D.C., we don't have the guts to win a war anylonger. Fuckin sad.

noonwitch
06-01-2011, 09:25 AM
It makes me worry a little for the girl from Dearborn who won whichever beauty contest here (MIss USA? Miss America?).


Then again, that girl would probably have been stoned for the whatever the scandal was (wet t-shirt competition in a local bar before the pageant? or something like that). Her family were obviously not that strict of muslims. The longer the family has been here, the more secular they tend to be.

AmPat
06-01-2011, 09:34 AM
It makes me worry a little for the girl from Dearborn who won whichever beauty contest here (MIss USA? Miss America?).


Then again, that girl would probably have been stoned for the whatever the scandal was (wet t-shirt competition in a local bar before the pageant? or something like that). Her family were obviously not that strict of muslims. The longer the family has been here, the more secular they tend to be.

Maybe one day they will become inquisitive enough to study the actual origins of their moon god and realize what a vile piece of crap Mohammed-piss be upon him- was.

SaintLouieWoman
06-01-2011, 09:43 AM
Would that it were that simple. The media, Democrats and the left have no problem offending people, provided that it's the right people. This is why they defend Crucifixes in urine and flag burning, but are horrified by a barbequed Qur'an. It's also why they are outraged by things like the "glass ceiling", which appears to keep upper middle class women from becoming middle upper class women, but girls who have been stoned to death for appearing in a bathing suit, or had acid thrown in their faces for daring to pursue an education aren't on their radar. The reason for this is that the left doesn't care about anything but power, and they know that a free, strong America is not conducive to their desires, so they side with anyone who can tear it down. This has been the pattern for as long as there has been a left. It's why the communists in Germany voted for the Nazis in 1933, because once liberty was expunged, they could fight for control. Today, leftists who claim to be committed to a host of PC positions openly support jihadis who oppose everything that they claim to stand for:

Progressives align with Salafists who seek to return the world to the seventh century.
Feminists align with Wahabbi misogynists.
Civil libertarians side with totalitarian Sharia scholars.
Peace activists make excuses for the atrocities of violent jihadis.
College faculty praise the "scholarship" of universities that teach nothing but the Qur'an.
Gay activists appear at rallies for Hamas, which executes gays and lesbians.
And at the end of the day, they will end up subjected to the tender mercies of the thugs that they facilitate.


Well said. Too much is excused in the spirit of "being fair". They're not fair, and it's time we stand up for our values.

NJCardFan
06-01-2011, 12:20 PM
There is a reason why the left ignore an defend the muzzies at every turn. They are cheering for them to win. They WANT them to take over the world. And, in their minds, when that happens, they're hoping that the muzzies remember that the left had their backs all the way in hopes that the muzzies will allow them to continue in whatever lifestyle they choose. Fact is, they are in for one hell of a rude awakening.

Odysseus
06-01-2011, 12:50 PM
It makes me worry a little for the girl from Dearborn who won whichever beauty contest here (MIss USA? Miss America?).


Then again, that girl would probably have been stoned for the whatever the scandal was (wet t-shirt competition in a local bar before the pageant? or something like that). Her family were obviously not that strict of muslims. The longer the family has been here, the more secular they tend to be.

That will change. In Europe, the second generation of Muslim immigrants tends to be more fanatical than the first, since the first has memories of living in the old country and is usually happy to be away from the insanity. The subsequent generations tend to seek some sort of identity and get radicalized in school (colleges seem to produce quite a few extremists, if for no other reason than to perpetuate the faculty) or in mosques that have been set up for that purpose.

Dan D. Doty
06-01-2011, 04:48 PM
Would that it were that simple. The media, Democrats and the left have no problem offending people, provided that it's the right people. This is why they defend Crucifixes in urine and flag burning, but are horrified by a barbequed Qur'an. It's also why they are outraged by things like the "glass ceiling", which appears to keep upper middle class women from becoming middle upper class women, but girls who have been stoned to death for appearing in a bathing suit, or had acid thrown in their faces for daring to pursue an education aren't on their radar. The reason for this is that the left doesn't care about anything but power, and they know that a free, strong America is not conducive to their desires, so they side with anyone who can tear it down. This has been the pattern for as long as there has been a left. It's why the communists in Germany voted for the Nazis in 1933, because once liberty was expunged, they could fight for control. Today, leftists who claim to be committed to a host of PC positions openly support jihadis who oppose everything that they claim to stand for:

Progressives align with Salafists who seek to return the world to the seventh century.
Feminists align with Wahabbi misogynists.
Civil libertarians side with totalitarian Sharia scholars.
Peace activists make excuses for the atrocities of violent jihadis.
College faculty praise the "scholarship" of universities that teach nothing but the Qur'an.
Gay activists appear at rallies for Hamas, which executes gays and lesbians.

And at the end of the day, they will end up subjected to the tender mercies of the thugs that they facilitate.

Mega ditto. :D

NJCardFan
06-01-2011, 05:38 PM
Would that it were that simple. The media, Democrats and the left have no problem offending people, provided that it's the right people. This is why they defend Crucifixes in urine and flag burning, but are horrified by a barbequed Qur'an.

This is the crux of the argument. They don't see the correlation between the 2 examples. They see the burning of the Koran as an act of hate but the burning of the flag as an act of free speech even though it's tough to find a reason to burn the flag out of love. They also consider the crucifix in urine, the Virgin Mary in elephant dung or covered in vagina's cut out of porno magazines as art even though the artists motivation is pure hatred of Christianity. As I said before, the left have no moral center so they don't see the obvious double standard unless they are purposely disingenuous.

Odysseus
06-01-2011, 06:19 PM
This is the crux of the argument. They don't see the correlation between the 2 examples. They see the burning of the Koran as an act of hate but the burning of the flag as an act of free speech even though it's tough to find a reason to burn the flag out of love. They also consider the crucifix in urine, the Virgin Mary in elephant dung or covered in vagina's cut out of porno magazines as art even though the artists motivation is pure hatred of Christianity. As I said before, the left have no moral center so they don't see the obvious double standard unless they are purposely disingenuous.

Some of them are, and some of them are just morally obtuse. There is also a certain amount of narcissism involved, since they love to pretend that the artists that they support are somehow taking "brave" stands against censorship, which somehow makes them "brave" for agreeing with them. In fact, there's nothing particularly brave about attacking Christianity or Judaism in an New York art gallery. Attacking Islam, OTOH, does take courage, which is why the left doesn't do it, but they can't very well admit to cowardice, so they gussy up their positions with a veneer of moral indignation at the "hateful" person who speaks frankly about Islam. Here, for example, is Wilbur in another thread, demonstrating his moral superiority by making a veiled Nazi reference at my expense:



Its clear that Ody is searching for a final solution to the Islam problem.

Well, I have one.

Convince people that its idiotic to believe that God, whether he exists or not, writes write books, sends prophets, or gives a shit about churches or mosques. From burkas to baklava, its all bullshit.... problem solved.

And, of course, Arroyo is a master of this technique. But you notice that they hardly ever post in the threads about women being killed by Muslims or other atrocities, just in those threads that discuss the threat of Islam in the abstract.

NJCardFan
06-01-2011, 08:18 PM
As evidenced by neither one of them posting in this thread. Oh, you might get Oreo make some snide comment like "scary brown guys" or something inane like that but they never, ever, argue this point intellectually. Ever.

Arroyo_Doble
06-02-2011, 09:44 AM
And, of course, Arroyo is a master of this technique. But you notice that they hardly ever post in the threads about women being killed by Muslims or other atrocities, just in those threads that discuss the threat of Islam in the abstract.

These guys are assholes and I hope they are convicted and prosecuted to the fullest extent of Ukrainian law.

I have now posted in this thread. Seems a bit redundant with all the others condemning the action and no one really defending the brutal murder of this individual but it is important to you for some reason so there it is.

wilbur
06-02-2011, 10:27 AM
Some of them are, and some of them are just morally obtuse. There is also a certain amount of narcissism involved, since they love to pretend that the artists that they support are somehow taking "brave" stands against censorship, which somehow makes them "brave" for agreeing with them. In fact, there's nothing particularly brave about attacking Christianity or Judaism in an New York art gallery. Attacking Islam, OTOH, does take courage, which is why the left doesn't do it, but they can't very well admit to cowardice, so they gussy up their positions with a veneer of moral indignation at the "hateful" person who speaks frankly about Islam. Here, for example, is Wilbur in another thread, demonstrating his moral superiority by making a veiled Nazi reference at my expense:


Yes, truth be told, you do sound a lot like a Nazi speaking of Jews, when you speak of Muslims. I'm not the only one who's noticed this. I'd bring up the disproportion of "normal Muslim"/terrorist/honor killer ratio again, but you'll just say none of it can be trusted because the Quran says they can all deceive in service to their religion. Man, they really are all just snakes and liars arent they?!.

While I spare no harsh words for religion, Islam or Christianity alike, and while it does make me smile any time one of their sacred screeds gets torched or desecrated... your words and attitude are of quite a different stripe. One-sided, black-and-white, dogmatic... the only brush you know is the broad brush... and its such a broad brush, its an all-encompassing brush. And of course, this is just how your thinking works, its not a uniquely Muslim thing. You seem to have a hard time telling the differences between the many factions of people who disagree with you on many matters.



And, of course, Arroyo is a master of this technique. But you notice that they hardly ever post in the threads about women being killed by Muslims or other atrocities, just in those threads that discuss the threat of Islam in the abstract.

In any case, as to my absence in honor killing threads and the like - I usually don't comment on any "murder of the day" stories, unless its really close to home. Probably the one exception in the past might be Dr. Tiller, if i recall. I'd probably post more in them, if there were Muslims here to rationalize away the actions of those involved, or sympathizing with the killers, as there are in threads about abortion doctor murders.

Odysseus
06-02-2011, 11:43 AM
These guys are assholes and I hope they are convicted and prosecuted to the fullest extent of Ukrainian law.

I have now posted in this thread. Seems a bit redundant with all the others condemning the action and no one really defending the brutal murder of this individual but it is important to you for some reason so there it is.
It is important to me for the same reason that it would have been important to Edmund Burke. Also, be advised that the Ukraine is not a Muslim state, but that there are those there who wish to impose Sharia law, and act upon it, just as there are here. The issue is not that a girl was murdered in a faraway place, it's that she was murdered for a reason, and people who act on the same motives are expanding their influence here. I'm playing Churchill to your Chamberlain.

Yes, truth be told, you do sound a lot like a Nazi speaking of Jews, when you speak of Muslims. I'm not the only one who's noticed this. I'd bring up the disproportion of "normal Muslim"/terrorist/honor killer ratio again, but you'll just say none of it can be trusted because the Quran says they can all deceive in service to their religion. Man, they really are all just snakes and liars arent they?!.
The only persons who have made this claim are you, Wei and Arroyo, and considering the sources alone invalidates it. However, I have never advocated genocide, and the comparison is a cheap as it is wrong. I make a very clear distinction between those Muslims who seek to embrace and live within western culture and those who want to destroy it, and I oppose all actions which facilitate the agenda of the latter group, not only because I don't want to see the west destroyed, but because I don't want to betray those who have come here to escape the horrors of Sharia. Casually comparing anyone to a Nazi is vile, but it's what we've come to expect from you. Comparing me, knowing that I am Jewish, is despicable. But again, it's what we've come to expect from you.


While I spare no harsh words for religion, Islam or Christianity alike, and while it does make me smile any time one of their sacred screeds gets torched or desecrated... your words and attitude are of quite a different stripe. One-sided, black-and-white, dogmatic... the only brush you know is the broad brush... and its such a broad brush, its an all-encompassing brush. And of course, this is just how your thinking works, its not a uniquely Muslim thing. You seem to have a hard time telling the differences between the many factions of people who disagree with you on many matters.

To someone with no moral compass, any firm positions must look dogmatic and manichean. But, once again, when you have stood at the doorway to a hospital and watched children who were blown up by a suicide bomber MEDEVAC'ed in, you can tell me that my take on our enemies is harsh. And sometimes, the truth doesn't have nuance. Sometimes, it is black and white. For example, there is a global jihad. It is not a fantasy, but a reality. It is aimed at the west. and as the leader of the west, the United States is the prime target. It is based, not on a misinterpretation of the Qur'an, but a literal reading, and which is the accepted meaning among the vast majority of Muslims, and acted on by enough of a percentage to equate to a very real threat. The means by which this jihad is advanced are not entirely military, but include political, social and financial attacks. In addition to having spent time in Iraq and Kuwait, I have also spent the last two decades studying the history and culture of Islam and the Arab Middle East. I have read the Qur'an, the Sunnah and several of the Hadiths, and seen how they influence behavior among Muslims. I spend a great deal of time here presenting information that corroborates this, and warning others of a danger that most of us see clearly, but which you do not. You claim to be nuanced, but you paint all religion with the same broad brush, and fail to see that some are more conducive to enlightenment and democracy than others. Your smug contempt is based, not on knowledge, but on ignorance, of the differences between Islam, both as a religion and political system, and Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism and every other religion throughout the world.


In any case, as to my absence in honor killing threads and the like - I usually don't comment on any "murder of the day" stories, unless its really close to home. Probably the one exception in the past might be Dr. Tiller, if i recall. I'd probably post more in them, if there were Muslims here to rationalize away the actions of those involved, or sympathizing with the killers, as there are in threads about abortion doctor murders.

One would think that the murder of 13 people on FT Hood, the attempted detonation of a car bomb in Times Square, the attempt to bring down a plane over Detroit, the murder of innocents anywhere, would be close to home for you, as they are to the rest of us. But I'm glad that Dr. Tiller's murder managed to get a rise out of you. Your priorities, as always, are enlightening.

Arroyo_Doble
06-02-2011, 11:55 AM
It is important to me for the same reason that it would have been important to Edmund Burke.

I am more of a de Tocqueville fan.


Also, be advised that the Ukraine is not a Muslim state, but that there are those there who wish to impose Sharia law, and act upon it, just as there are here. The issue is not that a girl was murdered in a faraway place, it's that she was murdered for a reason, and people who act on the same motives are expanding their influence here.

I am well aware of your obsession and murderers, or terrorists, or those who commit hate crimes, however you want to define this action, will be dealt with in this nation harshly. To make the argument that this type of brutality will be accepted in the United States is fantasy.


I'm playing Churchill to your Chamberlain.

Yes, I am sure you think you are.

Odysseus
06-02-2011, 01:30 PM
I am more of a de Tocqueville fan.
Try Burke, and Lord Acton.

[/QUOTE]I am well aware of your obsession and murderers, or terrorists, or those who commit hate crimes, however you want to define this action, will be dealt with in this nation harshly. To make the argument that this type of brutality will be accepted in the United States is fantasy.[/QUOTE]
How is it a fantasy? Here are the facts:

Honor killings have occurred in the US.
Honor killings have occurred in Europe, and with much greater frequency, owing to the much larger Sharia-compliant populations.
Honor killings are not prosecuted in Muslims states.
There are large enclaves within Europe which facilitate honor killings and where police are loathe to go due to concerns for their own safety. In those enclaves, honor killings are less likely to be prosecuted, or even investigated.
Self-governing Sharia enclaves in Europe are a deliberate and predictable effect of Jihadi activity.
The Muslim Brotherhood and other similar groups have similar plans for the US, and such enclaves have already been established.

http://www.danielpipes.org/blog/2004/08/permit-muslim-only-enclaves
http://www.sabiqun.org/about_us.html
Now, from those facts, let's take some assumptions:

Self-contained Sharia enclaves in the US will begin to forcibly exclude non-Muslims, as they have in Europe.
These enclaves will impose Sharia norms of sexual and religious apartheid, as they have in Europe.
Sharia courts in these enclaves will not prosecute honor killings or other actions which conflict with western law, but are halal, or permitted, under Islam, as they have in Europe.
Local networks in these enclaves will act to deliberately block external (i.e., American) law enforcement from acting within them, and to prevent investigations of Sharia-based crimes, as they have in Europe.

Now, what is the fantasy? Which of the facts do you deny, and if none, which of the assumptions do you dispute, and why? And seriously, don't just give a snarky, thoughtless response, but actually look at this and try to debate on the arguments.

Yes, I am sure you think you are.
And I'm sure that you think of me the way that the British establishment thought of Churchill, as a rabble-rouser who is getting in the way of the peace that you think can be established. And I'm also sure that Stanley Baldwin and Neville Chamberlain thought of themselves pretty much the way that you picture yourself, as men of peace who were willing to negotiate away the security of other countries that were far away and little known to them. But, ultimately, Baldwin and Chamberlain came to realize that they were wrong and Churchill right. I only hope that when you come to the same realization, it is not too late.

noonwitch
06-02-2011, 01:50 PM
As I have said repeatedly, I don't trust Islam-I'm a feminist, after all. But I live in an area in which there are a lot of muslims of middle eastern descent. I have muslim coworkers, court officials, and cops to deal with and be respectful toward. I like a lot of them. Plus, I love their food-it's healthy and tasty.


The church I attend on Saturdays has been doing a lot of outreach to the muslim community-they send volunteers to the language center to help people learn english, they had a "reverse garage sale" for a community of Iraqi refugees that I donated some of my fat clothes to, and are even talking about setting up a church plant for that community. They got someone to donate new bikes for all the kids, too. I support this outreach and if they do plant a church, I will attend it sometimes and give them some money for it, and volunteer some time. From what I hear, the community needs some youth outreach, I'd be more than willing to volunteer my time to work with the kids.


I don't discount the things Odysseus says-he's a military guy who has seen a different side of Islam than I've seen. It's the job of the military to deal with threats to our nation, and I honor the service that DJones and Odysseus are giving to our country.

Arroyo_Doble
06-02-2011, 01:56 PM
How is it a fantasy? Here are the facts:
[LIST]
Honor killings have occurred in the US.



Are they accepted? Are they likely to be accepted. Kill your wife and you get off scott free just by claiming you are a Muslim?

Fantasy, as I said.




Now, from those facts, let's take some assumptions:

Self-contained Sharia enclaves in the US will begin to forcibly exclude non-Muslims, as they have in Europe.


Forcibly? Like I forcibly would exclude whoever I damn well please from my private property?


These enclaves will impose Sharia norms of sexual and religious apartheid, as they have in Europe.

So they will worship freely?


Sharia courts in these enclaves will not prosecute honor killings or other actions which conflict with western law, but are halal, or permitted, under Islam, as they have in Europe.

Again, you think being Muslim will be a getoutofjailfree card in the United States?

I disagree.



Local networks in these enclaves will act to deliberately block external (i.e., American) law enforcement from acting within them, and to prevent investigations of Sharia-based crimes, as they have in Europe.



And they will fail. If they try it at all.


Now, what is the fantasy?

Pretty much your entire screed with regards to honor killings being accepted in the United States.


And I'm sure that you think of me the way that the British establishment thought of Churchill, as a rabble-rouser who is getting in the way of the peace that you think can be established.

No. I think you are a generic delusional AM radio listener who long ago lost the ability to reason effectively.


And I'm also sure that Stanley Baldwin and Neville Chamberlain thought of themselves pretty much the way that you picture yourself, as men of peace who were willing to negotiate away the security of other countries that were far away and little known to them.

Weird delusions, at that.


But, ultimately, Baldwin and Chamberlain came to realize that they were wrong and Churchill right.

Good for them. Dardanelles was pretty stupid, though.


I only hope that when you come to the same realization, it is not too late.

I've seen the light. I will start ripping the hijabs off the heads of 14 year old Somalian refugee girls later.

Novaheart
06-02-2011, 02:04 PM
No matter how many times stuff like this happens, no matter if it happens in Islamic countries or free countries, there are all these folks who start chanting the defenses of Islam as if it were simply another religion.

It's disturbing. There are so many people in the European cultural sphere who are trying so hard to be, well I don't know what to call it, that they will keep saying "They aren't all like that, it's just a minority..." until the water is boiling and the frog is trying desperately to escape the pot.

Unfortunately, our grandchildren are the frog, not the actual dipshits who are welcoming Islam to the free world.

AmPat
06-02-2011, 02:06 PM
No matter how many times stuff like this happens, no matter if it happens in Islamic countries or free countries, there are all these folks who start chanting the defenses of Islam as if it were simply another religion.

It's disturbing. There are so many people in the European cultural sphere who are trying so hard to be, well I don't know what to call it, that they will keep saying "They aren't all like that, it's just a minority..." until the water is boiling and the frog is trying desperately to escape the pot.

Unfortunately, our grandchildren are the frog, not the actual dipshits who are welcoming Islam to the free world.

Outstanding point.

wilbur
06-02-2011, 02:12 PM
I have also spent the last two decades studying the history and culture of Islam and the Arab Middle East. I have read the Qur'an, the Sunnah and several of the Hadiths, and seen how they influence behavior among Muslims. I spend a great deal of time here presenting information that corroborates this, and warning others of a danger that most of us see clearly, but which you do not. You claim to be nuanced, but you paint all religion with the same broad brush, and fail to see that some are more conducive to enlightenment and democracy than others. Your smug contempt is based, not on knowledge, but on ignorance, of the differences between Islam, both as a religion and political system, and Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism and every other religion throughout the world.

If you study the trappings of Islam, with the same slipshod, reactionary, dogmatic eye with which you "study" liberalism, politics, morality, history and various social issues (gay rights), etc, then we can be certain you are absolutely clueless to the reality of it, and if anything you say actually, by miracle, happens to line up with reality, it would only be by sheer coincidence.


One would think that the murder of 13 people on FT Hood, the attempted detonation of a car bomb in Times Square, the attempt to bring down a plane over Detroit, the murder of innocents anywhere, would be close to home for you, as they are to the rest of us. But I'm glad that Dr. Tiller's murder managed to get a rise out of you. Your priorities, as always, are enlightening.

My commenting choices have little or nothing to do with where I rank events in importance, or scale of tragedy (though interestingly, once again, we observe you making overreaching assumptions about people). Its a given that those attacks are horrible, I feel no need to speak the obvious.

Its interesting to comment, where say, a bunch of people are defending, rationalizing, or otherwise sympathizing with a murder - like in the case of Dr. Tiller.

Arroyo_Doble
06-02-2011, 02:18 PM
No matter how many times stuff like this happens, no matter if it happens in Islamic countries or free countries, there are all these folks who start chanting the defenses of Islam as if it were simply another religion.

It's disturbing. There are so many people in the European cultural sphere who are trying so hard to be, well I don't know what to call it, that they will keep saying "They aren't all like that, it's just a minority..." until the water is boiling and the frog is trying desperately to escape the pot.

Unfortunately, our grandchildren are the frog, not the actual dipshits who are welcoming Islam to the free world.

Then get a constitutional amendment started to deny religious freedom to a specific religion. It would be popular among a certain sub-culture in America and you would be at least as famous as that book burning douche in Florida or those assholes in Kansas that seem to know about God's animosity toward British cigarettes.

Odysseus
06-02-2011, 02:42 PM
Are they accepted? Are they likely to be accepted. Kill your wife and you get off scott free just by claiming you are a Muslim?

Fantasy, as I said.
Pretty much. Honor killings of daughters aren't prosecuted in Islamic countries. Killing of wives is done through Sharia courts via accusation all of the times. That's how stonings occur. And if the woman isn't a Muslim, then there is almost never a prosecution. So, no, it isn't a fantasy.


Forcibly? Like I forcibly would exclude whoever I damn well please from my private property?
No, more like a street gang vandalizes your property, and assaults and threatens you until you leave.


So they will worship freely?
No, so that nobody else will. The gender and religious apartheid is meant to force Kuffirs out of the community and women to submit.


Again, you think being Muslim will be a getoutofjailfree card in the United States?
I disagree.
Since that isn't what I said, I disagree, as well. I'm saying that in time, within those enclaves, the rule of Sharia will trump American law, if we allow it, and that those things which are permitted by Sharia will occur, regardless of our laws against it, unless we take steps now to prevent that.


And they will fail. If they try it at all.
They haven't failed in Europe. What makes you think that they will here? It's not like you're doing anything about it.


Pretty much your entire screed with regards to honor killings being accepted in the United States.
Again, just a snarky wisecrack, with no real refutation. Followed by the obligatory leftist meme:


No. I think you are a generic delusional AM radio listener who long ago lost the ability to reason effectively.
And yet, when asked to provide reasoning that counters mine, you present assertions, wisecracks and a singular lack of facts or evidence. Perhaps AM radio is a better source of informaiton than NPR?

Weird delusions, at that.
Hardly. Chamberlain appeased the Nazis by selling out the Czechs at Munich. He described Czechoslovakia as "a far away country about which we know little" in order to justify his sellout. Today, we find ourselves repeatedly selling out far away countries about which we know little, because we don't take the trouble to know more.


Good for them. Dardanelles was pretty stupid, though.
Not nearly as stupid as Munich.


I've seen the light. I will start ripping the hijabs off the heads of 14 year old Somalian refugee girls later.
How can you see the light with your head in the sand? Instead of ripping the hijabs off of kids, why don't you go to a mosque and listen to the sermon, or go to one of the links that I provided and read what the Muslims themselves state that they are planning? Oh, wait, that would take an open mind and a willingness to learn. Forgot who I was talking to for a second.


I don't discount the things Odysseus says-he's a military guy who has seen a different side of Islam than I've seen. It's the job of the military to deal with threats to our nation, and I honor the service that DJones and Odysseus are giving to our country.
Thanks.

No matter how many times stuff like this happens, no matter if it happens in Islamic countries or free countries, there are all these folks who start chanting the defenses of Islam as if it were simply another religion.

It's disturbing. There are so many people in the European cultural sphere who are trying so hard to be, well I don't know what to call it, that they will keep saying "They aren't all like that, it's just a minority..." until the water is boiling and the frog is trying desperately to escape the pot.

Unfortunately, our grandchildren are the frog, not the actual dipshits who are welcoming Islam to the free world.
Kid, you've justified the mods restoring you. :D

If you study the trappings of Islam, with the same slipshod, reactionary, dogmatic eye with which you "study" liberalism, politics, morality, history and various social issues (gay rights), etc, then we can be certain you are absolutely clueless to the reality of it, and if anything you say actually, by miracle, happens to line up with reality, it would only be by sheer coincidence.
Reactionary? ROFLOL!!! What is this, a 1935 Comintern meeting? Ah, Proglodytes. Always going back to the future...

Wilbur, you approach everything with the smug disdain of an elitist tool who cannot bear to find himself on the same side of an argument as his neighbors.


My commenting choices have little or nothing to do with on where I rank events in importance, or scale of tragedy (though interestingly, once again, we observe you making overreaching assumptions about people). Its a given that those attacks are horrible, I feel no need to speak the obvious.
On the contrary, your choices say a great deal about where you rank events, and with your view of yourself and us. You almost always chime in when you can attack the majority position here, but almost never to express agreement with it. Your sole purpose here is to attack non-believers, rather than to convince. Ultimately, you have more in common with the imams than you know.


Its interesting to comment, where say, a bunch of people are defending, rationalizing, or otherwise sympathizing with a murder - like in the case of Dr. Tiller.

Interesting, because it gets you attention? Because you get to demonstrate your elitist contempt for the rest of us? Because it serves your vanity?

Arroyo_Doble
06-02-2011, 03:10 PM
Let's go over this one more time.


To make the argument that this type of brutality will be accepted in the United States is fantasy.



How is it a fantasy? Here are the facts:
[LIST]
Honor killings have occurred in the US.


Are they accepted? Are they likely to be accepted. Kill your wife and you get off scott free just by claiming you are a Muslim?

Fantasy, as I said.


Pretty much. Honor killings of daughters aren't prosecuted in Islamic countries. Killing of wives is done through Sharia courts via accusation all of the times. That's how stonings occur. And if the woman isn't a Muslim, then there is almost never a prosecution. So, no, it isn't a fantasy.

Try again on that one, Odie.

wilbur
06-02-2011, 03:14 PM
Reactionary? ROFLOL!!! What is this, a 1935 Comintern meeting? Ah, Proglodytes. Always going back to the future...

Wilbur, you approach everything with the smug disdain of an elitist tool who cannot bear to find himself on the same side of an argument as his neighbors.


Hey I love it when we're on the same side of an argument - its especially funny when you are actually trying to disagree with me but end up using different words to state my case.



On the contrary, your choices say a great deal about where you rank events, and with your view of yourself and us.

Oh I'm sorry, I overstepped my bounds. I forgot, I defer to you when I want to know the contents of my own mind. Please, continue... and never mind what was I saying about overreaching assumptions.



You almost always chime in when you can attack the majority position here, but almost never to express agreement with it.

Yep, so what? Even more idiotic than arguing on the internet is agreeing on the internet.



Your sole purpose here is to attack non-believers, rather than to convince. Ultimately, you have more in common with the imams than you know.

Most people here arent really here to convince. Hell, they made a mod out of a guy who has repeatedly said his sole purpose here is to make fun, insult, and belittle liberals. How's he rank on your Imam scale?



Interesting, because it gets you attention? Because you get to demonstrate your elitist contempt for the rest of us? Because it serves your vanity?

One interesting facet of those sorts of conversations, are the glimpses you catch of the same sorts of attitudes and stirrings within people that could lead to things like honor killings.

Arroyo_Doble
06-02-2011, 03:20 PM
No, more like a street gang vandalizes your property, and assaults and threatens you until you leave.


If that is happening now, I prefer to take on the street gangs rather than some fantasy future Boogen.


No, so that nobody else will. The gender and religious apartheid is meant to force Kuffirs out of the community and women to submit.

Good luck pulling that one off in the United States. Maybe they can get alcohol outlawed like the Baptists did in certain parts of Arkansas. Even the Mormons had to give a little on that issue in Utah, though.


Since that isn't what I said, I disagree, as well. I'm saying that in time, within those enclaves, the rule of Sharia will trump American law, if we allow it, and that those things which are permitted by Sharia will occur, regardless of our laws against it, unless we take steps now to prevent that.

I already drove by what used to be Frankford, Texas. I think we are safe for now.


They haven't failed in Europe. What makes you think that they will here? It's not like you're doing anything about it.

No. I am working on multi-family living zoning ordinances, neighborhood watches, community activities, organizing clean-ups, ect ... You know ... stuff to combat that threat that actually exists in the United States: Street gangs.


And yet, when asked to provide reasoning that counters mine, you present assertions, wisecracks and a singular lack of facts or evidence.

You are making an argument about a fantasy world where brutal murders are accepted in the United States and not prosecutable due to the purpetrators being Muslim. What exactly am I supposed to refute?


Perhaps AM radio is a better source of informaiton than NPR?

Sure. If you want delusions fed. Information you can actually use in reality, not so much.

Odysseus
06-02-2011, 04:58 PM
Let's go over this one more time.

Try again on that one, Odie.
What's to go over? Honor killings have occurred in the US and Eurpe. Unlike in Islamic countries, we prosecute them, but in some European countries, it is becoming harder to do so, because they have extensive enclaves of Sharia-compliant populations that thwart investigation and prosecution. As these enclaves grow, the effectiveness of the host nation law enforcement declines. Today, honor killings in the US are investigated and prosecuted. In Europe, they are, but with poorer results. Ten years from now, parts of Europe will be where Nigeria and Thailand are, now, with whole provinces under Sharia law, and now prosecutions or investigations of such crimes, and we will be where Europe is. This is not hard to grasp, unless you fancy yourself an intellectual. Speaking of which...

Hey I love it when we're on the same side of an argument - its especially funny when you are actually trying to disagree with me but end up using different words to state my case.

If you mean that we both agree that you are a smug elitist tool who cannot bear to find himself on the same side of an argument as his neighbors, then there is not argument on that score.


Oh I'm sorry, I overstepped my bounds. I forgot, I defer to you when I want to know the contents of my own mind. Please, continue... and never mind what was I saying about overreaching assumptions.
Wilbur, you are an open book to everyone here, not just me. Ask around.

Yep, so what? Even more idiotic than arguing on the internet is agreeing on the internet.
Why is agreeing with someone, supporting their arguments, building relationships which may eventually become friendships offline and actually persuading people more idiotic than just arguing?


Most people here arent really here to convince. Hell, they made a mod out of a guy who has repeatedly said his sole purpose here is to make fun, insult, and belittle liberals. How's he rank on your Imam scale?
He's not on it, and won't be until he beheads somebody.


One interesting facet of those sorts of conversations, are the glimpses you catch of the same sorts of attitudes and stirrings within people that could lead to things like honor killings.
Wow. That's even stupider than the rest of your discussion points.

If that is happening now, I prefer to take on the street gangs rather than some fantasy future Boogen.
Good luck. It is happening now. It's happening all over Europe. In Germany:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FT4XcKe3ixE
France:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QXB-8d2PZ_8
Sweden:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFVa-YY45MU&feature=related
Britain:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0BbWmPKCyk&feature=related

As a previous fellow with similar convictions once said, "Today, Europe. Tomorrow, the world."


Good luck pulling that one off in the United States. Maybe they can get alcohol outlawed like the Baptists did in certain parts of Arkansas. Even the Mormons had to give a little on that issue in Utah, though.
The Mormons didn't have PC folks like you and Wilbur on their side, now did they?

I already drove by what used to be Frankford, Texas. I think we are safe for now.
The operative words being "for now." What about a decade from now?


No. I am working on multi-family living zoning ordinances, neighborhood watches, community activities, organizing clean-ups, ect ... You know ... stuff to combat that threat that actually exists in the United States: Street gangs.
You're combating a local threat, but you don't grasp the larger implications. Where did the gangs come from? Was your neighborhood gang-ridden thirty years ago? Fifty? Nope. Why is it now? Because demographic changes have brought new criminal classes to America, along with new immigrants, but the Islamic jihadis are more dangerous than any streetgang that you've ever dealt with, because unlike the Crips, Bloods, MS-13 or Latin Kings, the Jihadis aren't in it for drugs, money, or bling, they're in it for paradise. They don't want to just control their own turf, they want to expand and destroy yours. They aren't simply criminals, they are fanatical combatants. You don't know the threat and you are putting a band aid on a paper cut while ignoring the festering wound that is starting to bubble up.


You are making an argument about a fantasy world where brutal murders are accepted in the United States and not prosecutable due to the purpetrators being Muslim. What exactly am I supposed to refute?
You have the annoying habit of taking one aspect of what I have said and harping on it to the exclusion of everything else. As I have repeatedly stated, the progress of Sharia will gradually create enclaves where this can and will happen. That it doesn't happen in the US now doesn't mean that it cannot or will not. The threat is very real, and obvious to anyone who is not willfully obtuse. The videos above show police being chased out of a suburb in Paris and being physically assaulted in Berlin, firefighters being attacked in Sweden and Brits being chased out of their own neighborhoods. What makes you think that (a) the same people who imposed it there don't intend to bring it here, and (b) that we will be any more successful in stopping it?


Sure. If you want delusions fed. Information you can actually use in reality, not so much.

Smug and arrogant. It would almost be worth it to see your face the first time you run up against what I'm talking about. But I'm not willing to see my daughters wearing niqabs just to show you how stupid, obtuse and blind you are. You want to stick your head in the sand (or the nearest appropriate orifice if sand isn't available), be my guest. If you get off pretending that you know what you're talking about, and that I don't, based on your complete lack of knowledge of the subject, have fun. But, when this hits the fan, and it will, you and Wilbur are going to be praying (yes, praying) that me, or someone like me, is around to pull your privileged little butts out of the fire that you're allowing to smoulder.

Novaheart
06-02-2011, 07:24 PM
Then get a constitutional amendment started to deny religious freedom to a specific religion. It would be popular among a certain sub-culture in America and you would be at least as famous as that book burning douche in Florida or those assholes in Kansas that seem to know about God's animosity toward British cigarettes.

It isn't necessary. We can simply ban immigration of moslems. The American people will take care of the ones already here.

AmPat
06-02-2011, 07:40 PM
It is obvious that some of our resident idiot liberals (I know, redundant), will senselessly argue in spite of common sense, evidence, and stated objectives of our new enemy. They'll probably hand their executioners the swords and stones with which to kill them.:cool:

Arroyo_Doble
06-02-2011, 09:31 PM
It isn't necessary. We can simply ban immigration of moslems. The American people will take care of the ones already here.

You should picket funerals. God hates Muslims.

Odysseus
06-02-2011, 11:04 PM
You should picket funerals. God hates Muslims.

Tell you what, why don't you show up at a mosque sometime and listen to the sermon, and then tell us how wrong we are?

Odysseus
06-03-2011, 12:48 PM
Are they accepted? Are they likely to be accepted. Kill your wife and you get off scott free just by claiming you are a Muslim?

Fantasy, as I said.

How about a reduced sentence for being a Muslim? Does that count?


Foreign student upset by the way women dressed jailed for sex attacks

Elissa Hunt From: Herald Sun May 31, 2011 4:22PM

A FOREIGN student who sexually assaulted seven victims claimed he was upset at the way Australian women dressed and behaved, a court has heard.

Libyan masters student Almahde Ahmad Atagore, 28, was this morning jailed for at least three years over the assaults in August and September last year.

He had been in the country only a month, on a sponsorship funded by his government.

But County Court Judge Margaret Rizkalla said Atagore wasn’t prepared for the cultural differences and felt isolated and depressed.

He indecently assaulted two teenagers leaving the Mentone Hotel, laughing at them afterwards.

Atagore returned another night to attack two more outside the same pub.

Two more victims, including a 13-year-old girl, were assaulted as they used escalators at Flinders St station.

Another, 17, was attacked outside Mentone train station.

Judge Rizkalla said he struggled to adapt to Australian life, without a mosque nearby and with little support.

Atagore told a psychiatrist he was upset at the way local women dressed and behaved, leaving him feeling both angry and aroused.

But he now felt shame and regret for his crimes, the judge said.

She said Atagore was suffering from an adjustment disorder, which contributed to his offending, and would face a hard time in prison with his poor grasp of English.

But the attacks happened in public places and had left the victims fearful of public transport, robbing them of security and independence.

That's Australia. Not Libya. A female judge, no less, sympathized with the poor little rapist because his culture hadn't prepared him for the sight of a woman wearing less than a duffel bag.

Still think that it's a fantasy?