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bijou
06-03-2011, 12:02 PM
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/images/2011/0603/275109_1.jpg?ts=1307116865?ts=1307116865

Assisted suicide advocate Jack Kevorkian, who helped more than 130 people end their lives, has died at the age of 83.

Dr Kevorkian died at William Beaumont Hospital in Royal Oak in the Detroit-area. He was admitted to hospital with kidney and respiratory problems several weeks ago.

An official cause of death had not been determined, but his lawyer said it was likely to be pulmonary thrombosis. ...

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2011/0603/breaking39.html

Bailey
06-03-2011, 12:12 PM
Good riddance to bad rubbish, though I wish peace on any family members he has left.

Adam Wood
06-03-2011, 12:24 PM
Died of natural causes. Irony.

megimoo
06-03-2011, 12:36 PM
Good riddance to bad rubbish, though I wish peace on any family members he has left.Don't speak ill of the dead..He saw hopeless, terminal people suffering and sought to alleviate their pain in the only way possible .
Obamas new health care plan does much the same .Or look to Washington,Oregon, and Montana with their state-sponsored euthanasia program .

pyackog
06-03-2011, 12:46 PM
I never had any problem with him. He just helped people fulfill their own wishes. Under the right circumstances and health issues, I wouldn't want to live either.

megimoo
06-03-2011, 12:57 PM
I never had any problem with him. He just helped people fulfill their own wishes. Under the right circumstances and health issues, I wouldn't want to live either.I agree,If your life is riddled with pain and you are terminal the only thing that would hold me back would be suicide by my own hand .Putting myself into terminal harms way would be cutting a fine line between accidental death or suicide......

Starbuck
06-03-2011, 01:01 PM
Say what you must, but that Sumbitch could sure take the heat. He stuck by what he believed and you just can't ask for better than that. Someday the world may come around to his way of thinking.

RIP, Dr. Jack

Bailey
06-03-2011, 01:11 PM
Don't speak ill of the dead..He saw hopeless, terminal people suffering and sought to alleviate their pain in the only way possible .
Obamas new health care plan does much the same .Or look to Washington,Oregon, and Montana with their state-sponsored euthanasia program .

Well we are going to agree to disagree. The man took those same people you described and led them down a path of damnation. I might be wrong but God frowns on suicide and you can dress it up all you want as pain relief.

Bailey
06-03-2011, 01:12 PM
Say what you must, but that Sumbitch could sure take the heat. He stuck by what he believed and you just can't ask for better than that. Someday the world may come around to his way of thinking.

RIP, Dr. Jack


God help us if we do.

noonwitch
06-03-2011, 01:14 PM
I never had any problem with him. He just helped people fulfill their own wishes. Under the right circumstances and health issues, I wouldn't want to live either.

I had issues about one of his cases-a woman with cerebral palsy. She wasn't terminal, and I really think that she just needed better doctors to help her with her situation.

Gov. Granholm gave him clemency and early parole because he was very ill.

Bailey
06-03-2011, 01:17 PM
I had issues about one of his cases-a woman with cerebral palsy. She wasn't terminal, and I really think that she just needed better doctors to help her with her situation.

Gov. Granholm gave him clemency and early parole because he was very ill.

Yes this is a case in point, how do you stop people who just dont want to live? I mean if you take your own life thats on you but if you bring an outside party in or the state how do you stop cases where it isnt pain so much just depression for the state you're in?

megimoo
06-03-2011, 01:28 PM
Yes this is a case in point, how do you stop people who just dont want to live? I mean if you take your own life thats on you but if you bring an outside party in or the state how do you stop cases where it isnt pain so much just depression for the state you're in?How do suppose Obamacare's NHS 'death panels' will handle it when someone asks to die .To them it's simply one less medical bill to pay !

wilbur
06-03-2011, 01:32 PM
How do suppose Obamacare's NHS 'death panels' will handle it when someone asks to die .To them it's simply one less medical bill to pay !

Kinda like insurance companies already do?

Bailey
06-03-2011, 01:45 PM
Kinda like insurance companies already do?

Yes but now it will be encouraged. :D

noonwitch
06-03-2011, 02:35 PM
Yes this is a case in point, how do you stop people who just dont want to live? I mean if you take your own life thats on you but if you bring an outside party in or the state how do you stop cases where it isnt pain so much just depression for the state you're in?

I support terminally ill people's right to have assistance in offing themselves to avoid a drawn out and painful death.

Alzheimer's is tricky, because the patient's ability to make that decision is often in question.

But a physically handicapped woman with CP? She could live for years with that condition and receive assistance with her daily life. She could have found peace and happiness in this life, for however much longer she was going to live. Her doctors did not do enough for her.

txradioguy
06-03-2011, 03:11 PM
I hope his little place in hell is particularly hot.

Bailey
06-03-2011, 03:24 PM
I dont know how a Christian can agree with this man, I understand nonbelievers giving oral sex to the man but one thing I do know is God does not like when you take your life and I haven't read any exceptions to that rule. (unless you are trying to save another)

wilbur
06-03-2011, 03:28 PM
I dont know how a Christian can agree with this man, I understand nonbelievers giving oral sex to the man but one thing I do know is God does not like when you take your life and I haven't read any exceptions to that rule. (unless you are trying to save another)

And I don't know how anyone can believe in God, given the existence of horrible terminal illnesses.

namvet
06-03-2011, 03:53 PM
I never had an issue with him. far as i know they came to him to end their suffering.

SaintLouieWoman
06-03-2011, 09:27 PM
I never had an issue with him. far as i know they came to him to end their suffering.

I suspect it's far more common than we think. My mom supposedly had Alzheimer's, although someone else diagnosed it as a dementia brought about by multiple falls. We had a call from the nursing home to come over right away as they thought she would die within the hour.

She survived 4 more days, hopefully not in pain. My sister and I were there in that room with her night and day. On the 4th day the nurse practitioner of her doc came over. Within an hour she was dead. I think they increased her meds.

I think it's a common practice. She had a do not resuscitate order that she had signed as part of her living will years before. Who knows what is really done?

It puts your beliefs to the test. They didn't ask us, just did it (if they indeed did anything, could have been a coincidence). Our hands were tired as she had signed that thing, but was it life on only oxygen and no iv nourishment?

Molon Labe
06-03-2011, 09:31 PM
I suspect it's far more common than we think. My mom supposedly had Alzheimer's, although someone else diagnosed it as a dementia brought about by multiple falls. We had a call from the nursing home to come over right away as they thought she would die within the hour.

She survived 4 more days, hopefully not in pain. My sister and I were there in that room with her night and day. On the 4th day the nurse practitioner of her doc came over. Within an hour she was dead. I think they increased her meds.

I think it's a common practice. She had a do not resuscitate order that she had signed as part of her living will years before. Who knows what is really done?

It puts your beliefs to the test. They didn't ask us, just did it (if they indeed did anything, could have been a coincidence). Our hands were tired as she had signed that thing, but was it life on only oxygen and no iv nourishment?

same thing similar with my dad. Watched him for several days die. Really made me rethink my beliefs on what it means to end suffering.

namvet
06-03-2011, 09:55 PM
I suspect it's far more common than we think. My mom supposedly had Alzheimer's, although someone else diagnosed it as a dementia brought about by multiple falls. We had a call from the nursing home to come over right away as they thought she would die within the hour.

She survived 4 more days, hopefully not in pain. My sister and I were there in that room with her night and day. On the 4th day the nurse practitioner of her doc came over. Within an hour she was dead. I think they increased her meds.

I think it's a common practice. She had a do not resuscitate order that she had signed as part of her living will years before. Who knows what is really done?

It puts your beliefs to the test. They didn't ask us, just did it (if they indeed did anything, could have been a coincidence). Our hands were tired as she had signed that thing, but was it life on only oxygen and no iv nourishment?

I think your right. my mother N law has Alzheimer's and she's about half way thru it. her memory is all but gone now. and ive been to to many funerals looking at deceased people who wilted away to nothing. and suffered a long time before they died.

Rockntractor
06-03-2011, 09:57 PM
And I don't know how anyone can believe in God, given the existence of horrible terminal illnesses.

But then a new fresh baby is ready to come into the world........and someone like you aborts it.

Odysseus
06-03-2011, 10:07 PM
I always thought that his obsession with death was ghoulish, and destructive. Ironically, what he did as an individual, Obama is about to do en masse.

Madisonian
06-04-2011, 10:35 AM
My opinion is that implicit in one's right to live is being able to choose the time,place and manner of ending it if given the need and opportunity.

I don't condone or condemn what Doctor Jack did. From all I have read, he did not seek people out, they sought him.

Who is the moral arbiter that decides how long a person lives that supersedes my right to make that decision for myself? And what is wrong with seeking assistance should I not have the physical capacity to do it myself?

Novaheart
06-04-2011, 10:46 AM
I dont know how a Christian can agree with this man, I understand nonbelievers giving oral sex to the man but one thing I do know is God does not like when you take your life and I haven't read any exceptions to that rule. (unless you are trying to save another)

And he told you this? Do quoteth Him if you can.

Novaheart
06-04-2011, 10:53 AM
I always thought that his obsession with death was ghoulish, and destructive. Ironically, what he did as an individual, Obama is about to do en masse.

Oh for God's sake, Sarah, you are so full of it.

You want to see people die? Privatize Medicare. Which of those nice insurance companies do you think is going to take care of dialysis patients?

wilbur
06-04-2011, 11:19 AM
Oh for God's sake, Sarah, you are so full of it.

You want to see people die? Privatize Medicare. Which of those nice insurance companies do you think is going to take care of dialysis patients?

Ok, that was hilarious...

fettpett
06-04-2011, 11:45 AM
My opinion is that implicit in one's right to live is being able to choose the time,place and manner of ending it if given the need and opportunity.

I don't condone or condemn what Doctor Jack did. From all I have read, he did not seek people out, they sought him.

Who is the moral arbiter that decides how long a person lives that supersedes my right to make that decision for myself? And what is wrong with seeking assistance should I not have the physical capacity to do it myself?

pretty much. It's as much of an individual's choice as owning a gun and shooting ones self in the head. At lest having a doctor perform it it's a lot less messy.

However where I draw the line is having the doctors arbitrarily decide to kill someone off just because they are a certain age like in the Netherlands.

wilbur
06-04-2011, 11:55 AM
However where I draw the line is having the doctors arbitrarily decide to kill someone off just because they are a certain age like in the Netherlands.

I'm pretty skeptical that this is true... any facts to support this?

Bailey
06-04-2011, 12:31 PM
And he told you this? Do quoteth Him if you can.

Yes he did tell me its in a book called the Bible you should look into it, oh thats right it points out what a despicable lifestyle you lead. Maybe it will turn you away from your filthy habits but maybe not.

For starters the many verses in the bible(this is the word of God) about murder for starters. (killing yourself is murder)

or this i have found:

Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own, you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your body - 1 Corinthians 6:19-2

Bailey
06-04-2011, 12:32 PM
Oh for God's sake, Sarah, you are so full of it.

You want to see people die? Privatize Medicare. Which of those nice insurance companies do you think is going to take care of dialysis patients?

My dad is on dialysis and a company is paying for it.

Bailey
06-04-2011, 12:33 PM
pretty much. It's as much of an individual's choice as owning a gun and shooting ones self in the head. At lest having a doctor perform it it's a lot less messy.

However where I draw the line is having the doctors arbitrarily decide to kill someone off just because they are a certain age like in the Netherlands.

I dont think the Gov should condone this practice and pay for medical care. Its just opening the door to euthanasia writ large.

wilbur
06-04-2011, 12:59 PM
Yes he did tell me its in a book called the Bible you should look into it, oh thats right it points out what a despicable lifestyle you lead. Maybe it will turn you away from your filthy habits but maybe not.

For starters the many verses in the bible(this is the word of God) about murder for starters. (killing yourself is murder)

or this i have found:

Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own, you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your body - 1 Corinthians 6:19-2

So is suffering with a terminal disease, where you're shitting yourself daily, in horrible pain, and have no hope of recovery, only further degeneration, "honoring God with your body"?

Where's his honor for your body?

Novaheart
06-04-2011, 01:09 PM
Yes he did tell me its in a book called the Bible you should look into it, oh thats right it points out what a despicable lifestyle you lead. Maybe it will turn you away from your filthy habits but maybe not.

Twelve years of parochial school and Sunday school under the direction of college educated priests and ministers, with confirmation class and singing in the choir, being an acolyte, etc.... gee, that just doesn't compare to listening to some hypertensive cracker ranting and raving. I muss bees ignunt.

So in other words, by the "show me in the constitution where it says standard" there is actually NOTHING in the Bible about suicide. Oh, I forgot, even though it's the LITERAL word of God, it needs to be interpreted to have application. So the commandment against killing, interpreted to murder, needs to be interpreted to cover suicide (even though that would make inconsistent with all other commandments), but the rules some ancient Asians came up with to increase the herd to fight off superior civilizations is just as simple as it appears.

In fairness, you are the argument against wasting seed.

Novaheart
06-04-2011, 01:11 PM
I dont think the Gov should condone this practice and pay for medical care. Its just opening the door to euthanasia writ large.

By the way, do you have a tattoo?

Leviticus 19:28

You shall not make any cuts on your body for the dead or tattoo yourselves: I am the Lord.

Sinners!

Bailey
06-04-2011, 01:15 PM
Twelve years of parochial school and Sunday school under the direction of college educated priests and ministers, with confirmation class and singing in the choir, being an acolyte, etc.... gee, that just doesn't compare to listening to some hypertensive cracker ranting and raving. I muss bees ignunt.

So in other words, by the "show me in the constitution where it says standard" there is actually NOTHING in the Bible about suicide. Oh, I forgot, even though it's the LITERAL word of God, it needs to be interpreted to have application. So the commandment against killing, interpreted to murder, needs to be interpreted to cover suicide (even though that would make inconsistent with all other commandments), but the rules some ancient Asians came up with to increase the herd to fight off superior civilizations is just as simple as it appears.

In fairness, you are the argument against wasting seed.

Wow those twelve years of parochial education sure did go to waste on a self righteously Fag boy I bet your parents are pissed they wasted that money on your education, but on the other hand I am sure you got along with the priests so its a win-win for you. I want to thank you for giving me a chuckle, being judged by a homosexual degenerate makes me laugh.

On edit: I am amazed on how many people come out of those schools so messed up and with a hatred of the Christian Faith. Makes you wonder..

Bailey
06-04-2011, 01:16 PM
By the way, do you have a tattoo?

Leviticus 19:28

You shall not make any cuts on your body for the dead or tattoo yourselves: I am the Lord.

Sinners!

Nope homoboy, try again.

pyackog
06-04-2011, 02:53 PM
Kevorkian's last words..."DO I HAVE TO DO EVERYTHING MYSELF???"

Odysseus
06-04-2011, 05:38 PM
Oh for God's sake, Sarah, you are so full of it.

You want to see people die? Privatize Medicare. Which of those nice insurance companies do you think is going to take care of dialysis patients?
Sorry, but we've seen socialized medicine fail everywhere, and yet you keep thinking that this time, it will be different, because... well, just because. It certainly can't be because the law was drafted by people who understand every aspect of health care, or signed into law by a president who knows anything about it. Your faith (yes, faith) in this is amusing, since it flies in the face of reason.

Ok, that was hilarious...
Simple things appeal to simple minds.

Kevorkian's last words..."DO I HAVE TO DO EVERYTHING MYSELF???"

That's funny.

fettpett
06-04-2011, 11:25 PM
and what about Samson? (I'm just looking for Bailey or anyone else take, nothing more)

fettpett
06-04-2011, 11:25 PM
I dont think the Gov should condone this practice and pay for medical care. Its just opening the door to euthanasia writ large.

Federal Gov, no. It's a States issue

Bailey
06-04-2011, 11:28 PM
and what about Samson? (I'm just looking for Bailey or anyone else take, nothing more)

I've been up for nearly 24 hours so i am a bit punchy but what are you talking about? lol

fettpett
06-05-2011, 12:03 AM
I've been up for nearly 24 hours so i am a bit punchy but what are you talking about? lol

The Biblical character of Samson from Judges...he committed suicide when he destroyed the temple

Rockntractor
06-05-2011, 12:21 AM
The Biblical character of Samson from Judges...he commuted suicide when he destroyed the temple

If he commuted suicide, would that not mean he reduced it to something less severe than death?:confused:

djones520
06-05-2011, 12:23 AM
If he commuted suicide, would that not mean he reduced it to something less severe than death?:confused:

I think he meant committed. He pulled the temple down, killing himself and the Phillistines within.

fettpett
06-05-2011, 12:23 AM
If he commuted suicide, would that not mean he reduced it to something less severe than death?:confused:

yes, i meant committed, stupid Chrome corrections suck

djones520
06-05-2011, 12:34 AM
The Story of Samson, told by Lego's.

http://www.bricktestament.com/judges/samson_is_born/jg13_01a.html

*Warning, the website is not exactly pro-Christian, mostly accurate drawing directly from the bible, but takes some snipes*

wilbur
06-05-2011, 11:07 AM
Hell, that's not only suicide - that's almost like a suicide bomb, or about as close to one as you could get in those days, anyway.

fettpett
06-05-2011, 11:52 AM
Hell, that's not only suicide - that's almost like a suicide bomb, or about as close to one as you could get in those days, anyway.

:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Calypso Jones
06-05-2011, 12:39 PM
The enemy had already blinded him and they were going to kill him. He asked God for his strength one last time to pull down their temple and take them with him.

fettpett
06-05-2011, 02:11 PM
The enemy had already blinded him and they were going to kill him. He asked God for his strength one last time to pull down their temple and take them with him.

yeah, in a sense you could say he was terminal, but he still committed suicide

MrsSmith
06-05-2011, 07:15 PM
What Samson did was the same type of "suicide" as a man falling on a grenade to save his buddies. What he did was no different than if he'd been killed when he was laying about with the jawbone of an ass. He didn't walk into a market with the intent to kill a bunch of civilians, or choose to disobey God's wishes again.

MrsSmith
06-05-2011, 07:17 PM
Twelve years of parochial school and Sunday school under the direction of college educated priests and ministers, with confirmation class and singing in the choir, being an acolyte, etc.... gee, that just doesn't compare to listening to some hypertensive cracker ranting and raving. I muss bees ignunt.

So in other words, by the "show me in the constitution where it says standard" there is actually NOTHING in the Bible about suicide. Oh, I forgot, even though it's the LITERAL word of God, it needs to be interpreted to have application. So the commandment against killing, interpreted to murder, needs to be interpreted to cover suicide (even though that would make inconsistent with all other commandments), but the rules some ancient Asians came up with to increase the herd to fight off superior civilizations is just as simple as it appears.

In fairness, you are the argument against wasting seed.
In all fairness, you have shown absolutely no knowledge about Christianity. I don't know what you did learn in those 12 years, but I can see what you didn't learn...and so can most everyone else. (Not including Wilbur, who thinks he knows everything about theology, yet couldn't fill a thimble with all he knows about it.)

KhrushchevsShoe
06-07-2011, 05:10 AM
Sorry, but we've seen socialized medicine fail everywhere, and yet you keep thinking that this time, it will be different, because... well, just because. It certainly can't be because the law was drafted by people who understand every aspect of health care, or signed into law by a president who knows anything about it. Your faith (yes, faith) in this is amusing, since it flies in the face of reason.

Its easy to say any attempt at public healthcare has failed when you're using two completely different definitions for failure in the market system and public option/socialized medicine.

People in countries with socialized medicine tend to favor it pretty strongly (even in polls), so these horror stories that make their way across the internet about how miserable life must be a little overblown.

djones520
06-07-2011, 05:10 AM
What Samson did was the same type of "suicide" as a man falling on a grenade to save his buddies. What he did was no different than if he'd been killed when he was laying about with the jawbone of an ass. He didn't walk into a market with the intent to kill a bunch of civilians, or choose to disobey God's wishes again.

Pulling down a building spitefully killing several thousand people is the same as falling on a grenade to protect your friends?

I'm failing to see how that is in anyway similar at all. When throwing yourself on a grenade, your saving lives. When he pulled down that building, he was protecting no one.

The action of Samson killing a bunch of people shouldn't be focused on anyways. The entire book of Judges is full of the Israelites slaughtering people left and right.

Samson was going to die, that was a forgone conclusion, he went out fighting. It's really no differant that charging a wall of spears instead of meekly standing there and waiting for them to come at you. He just had the added benefit of God going all Hercules on his ass.

Odysseus
06-07-2011, 01:01 PM
Its easy to say any attempt at public healthcare has failed when you're using two completely different definitions for failure in the market system and public option/socialized medicine.

People in countries with socialized medicine tend to favor it pretty strongly (even in polls), so these horror stories that make their way across the internet about how miserable life must be a little overblown.

People who have nothing to compare it to are not in a position to dictate what we should do with our system, which, BTW, polls much higher in terms of statisfaction than most foreign systems do (especially the British NHS, which is the model for Obamacare). But, let's say that I'm using two different standards for failure. Okay, let's use some objective standards and compare apples to apples, so to speak. Which healthcare system has the highest cancer survival rates, the evil capitalist one or the magnanimous socialist ones? Which has the shortest waiting time for services? Which has the most up to date facilities? Which has the greater expenditures per capita in new technologies and drugs? Which leads in the development of new drugs, many of which replace costlier and more invasive procedures?

Let me know when you find something that socialism does better than capitalism, besides mass murder, misery and starvation.

KhrushchevsShoe
06-07-2011, 06:45 PM
People who have nothing to compare it to are not in a position to dictate what we should do with our system, which, BTW, polls much higher in terms of statisfaction than most foreign systems do (especially the British NHS, which is the model for Obamacare). But, let's say that I'm using two different standards for failure. Okay, let's use some objective standards and compare apples to apples, so to speak. Which healthcare system has the highest cancer survival rates, the evil capitalist one or the magnanimous socialist ones? Which has the shortest waiting time for services? Which has the most up to date facilities? Which has the greater expenditures per capita in new technologies and drugs? Which leads in the development of new drugs, many of which replace costlier and more invasive procedures?

Let me know when you find something that socialism does better than capitalism, besides mass murder, misery and starvation.

Life expectancy in the USA is garbage relative to the rest of the developed world, there hasn't been one study/research poll that puts the USA even in the top 10 of global health care systems, medical bills are responsible for a majority of all bankruptcies in the United States (even with all the foreclosures happening) and for almost 30 years now there has been consistent political debate over the issue.

But all's fine and dandy is Ayn Rand Land, at least we are free.

Odysseus
06-08-2011, 10:01 AM
Life expectancy in the USA is garbage relative to the rest of the developed world, there hasn't been one study/research poll that puts the USA even in the top 10 of global health care systems, medical bills are responsible for a majority of all bankruptcies in the United States (even with all the foreclosures happening) and for almost 30 years now there has been consistent political debate over the issue.

But all's fine and dandy is Ayn Rand Land, at least we are free.

Well, some of us are, no thanks to you. But every other statement above is false. Obama claimed during his first speech to congress that the cost of health care "causes a bankruptcy in America every 30 seconds." He lied. That would mean two bankruptcies per minute, or 120 per hour, 2880 per day, 1,051,200 per year, caused solely by health care costs. Except that there were a little over 900,000 bankruptcies in America during the year prior to Obama's speech, so you find that Obama is claiming that not only was every one of the previous year's bankruptcies caused by health care costs, but another 150,000 on top of that, which didn't exist. Sheer fabrication. Second, the rankings of global healthcare systems are weighted in favor of government run systems though the inclusion of fudgeable statistics like "fairness". Also, they base costs on the price paid by the consumer, not the costs of the actual treatments. Since socialized medicine is paid for out of tax revenues, the consumer doesn't pay for it directly, so they calculate a far lower "price" for services than the actual costs. Third, the reason that there is a consistent political debate over the issue is that publicly funded health care was a priority of Marx's, and his accolytes have been fighting for it for decades, but just because deluded people demand something doesn't mean that it's a priority for everyone else. The consistent political debate has consisted of socialists trying to incrementally impose it and ruin the free market system, and everyone else resisting it. That's not a debate, it's partisan combat by ideologues.

noonwitch
06-08-2011, 10:40 AM
The entire book of Judges is full of the Israelites slaughtering people left and right.




When I taught Sunday School to second graders, Judges was always a favorite of the boys.