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megimoo
06-03-2011, 03:44 PM
Mullen Says Pay, Benefit Cuts 'On the Table'

"Obamas Pet Mutt Mullen Gives The military One Last 'Kick In The Nuts' before he retires !"

The Pentagon's top officer said Thursday that servicemembers will likely see cuts in pay and benefits as the military plumbs its budget for nearly half a trillion dollars in savings over the next 12 years.

Joint Chiefs of Staff Chairman Adm. Mike Mullen warned against taking the "relatively easy" choice of cutting hardware while maintaining the increasing costs of paying and providing ongoing health care to troops and retirees.

"Two of the big places the money is, is in pay and benefits," Mullen told defense reporters at a June 2 breakfast meeting in Washington. "And so when I say all things are on the table, all things are on the table."

In May, President Obama proposed sweeping budget cuts totaling $400 billion over the next 12 years -- a fiscal hit experts say will largely come from the DoD. Defense Secretary Robert Gates has said health care costs are "eating the Department of Defense alive" -- with nearly 10 percent of the budget going to health benefits for active and retired servicemembers.

http://www.military.com/news/article/mullen-says-pay-benefit-cuts-on-the-table.html

txradioguy
06-03-2011, 04:24 PM
If Obama wants to ensure he is a one term President...he'll cut our pay and benefits.

Speedy
06-03-2011, 05:13 PM
Military pay and benefits are on the table but Planned Parenthood is not.

Arroyo_Doble
06-03-2011, 05:47 PM
We need to retire the phrase, "everything is on the table."

Clearly, it is not.

CueSi
06-03-2011, 06:52 PM
Military pay and benefits are on the table but Planned Parenthood is not.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-BZNYYBGOjg0/TcFxzOP7RLI/AAAAAAAAAII/7p3vLYoaI2A/s320/Are-you-fucking-kidding-me.jpg

~QC

NBC2012
06-04-2011, 12:38 AM
If Obama wants to ensure he is a one term President...he'll cut our pay and benefits.
hmmmmm, thats part of the price of pretending that a Usurper in the WH is a 'fringe' issue. But hey why should you and your buds have an exemption from the income loss that no one in the private economy is exempt from, eh? If the pay & benefits don't suit you are certainly free to depart when your your contract comes up for renewal.

megimoo
06-04-2011, 12:48 AM
hmmmmm, thats part of the price of pretending that a Usurper in the WH is a 'fringe' issue. But hey why should you and your buds have an exemption from the income loss that no one in the private economy is exempt from, eh? If the pay & benefits don't suit you are certainly free to depart when your your contract comes up for renewal.
Speaking of one termers .If you keep up with that bullshit I predict your term here will quickly come to an end....

megimoo
06-04-2011, 12:49 AM
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-BZNYYBGOjg0/TcFxzOP7RLI/AAAAAAAAAII/7p3vLYoaI2A/s320/Are-you-fucking-kidding-me.jpg

~QCWhy do you find fault with that one ?

djones520
06-04-2011, 12:50 AM
43,000 Airmen have lost their jobs over the last few years, 1 in 10 of us, now they want us to take cuts in pay?

I got an idea. Get rid of CAPSTONE tours. Take General Officers off flying status. Maybe make it so a General isn't making 150k a year in pay. Tell the President he can't take whilrwind tours of the world, making us fly hundreds of missions in support costing millions of dollars.

Stop shooting the guys doing all the work in the fucking foot for a change.

CueSi
06-04-2011, 01:09 AM
Why do you find fault with that one ?

Military Pay is in the Constitution, Planned Parenthood is not. The picture is expressing the idiocy of the current administration in this matter. :p

~QC

megimoo
06-04-2011, 01:14 AM
Military Pay is in the Constitution, Planned Parenthood is not. The picture is expressing the idiocy of the current administration in this matter. :p

~QCThank you. Now I understand !

djones520
06-04-2011, 01:23 AM
I just sent my Congressman an email, asking him about some of the things I mentioned above, why those were more necessary then ensuring our troops fighting multipe wars didn't have to worry about crap like this.

I asked for a response, my first correspondence with him since he took Hoekstra's seat. I hope he doesn't dissapoint.

txradioguy
06-04-2011, 11:45 AM
hmmmmm, thats part of the price of pretending that a Usurper in the WH is a 'fringe' issue.

It IS a fringe issue moron. And you're part of the fringe that thinks it's important.



But hey why should you and your buds have an exemption from the income loss that no one in the private economy is exempt from, eh? If the pay & benefits don't suit you are certainly free to depart when your your contract comes up for renewal.

Well for one I don't do this for the pay. I serve for reasons your twisted little brain will never understand.

And if you were to look at our pay and "benfits" you'd see they are less than the civilian sector and far less than the civilian government stiffs.

As far as my contract...I am on an indefinite enlistment. There is no "renewal" of my enlistment anymore.

And this may come as a shock to a mental midget like yourself...but my service is not dependent on who is sitting in the Oval Office.

fettpett
06-04-2011, 12:25 PM
I just sent my Congressman an email, asking him about some of the things I mentioned above, why those were more necessary then ensuring our troops fighting multipe wars didn't have to worry about crap like this.

I asked for a response, my first correspondence with him since he took Hoekstra's seat. I hope he doesn't dissapoint.

can't tell you much about Bill Huizenga, I'm in Upton's district, though if I was a few miles north I'd be in his. From what I understand that he's not a bad guy. Hope you hear from him soon

Novaheart
06-04-2011, 12:55 PM
Now that we have had an infusion of emotion, what is the context for this idea?

What was the pay of an Army noncom, junior officer, senior officer in the Great Depression relative to positions of comparable status? What is it now?

During the Great Depression my paternal grandfather was a postmaster in our town, and his salary was cut in half. Does anyone know if military pay was similarly affected?

txradioguy
06-04-2011, 01:11 PM
Now that we have had an infusion of emotion, what is the context for this idea?

What was the pay of an Army noncom, junior officer, senior officer in the Great Depression relative to positions of comparable status? What is it now?

During the Great Depression my paternal grandfather was a postmaster in our town, and his salary was cut in half. Does anyone know if military pay was similarly affected?

Not from what I've studied. But their pay...as it is now when compared to civilian jobs is still very low.

I know that my dad when he was a Ssgt in the Air Force in 1964 was making approximately $260 a month after taxes. And that included overseas pay and extra pay for his job.

When I started in 1992 base pay for a Private was $795 before taxes.

When I got promoted to E-4 the first time my pay was $1,600 a month before taxes. Now IIRC PFC's are making just about that much.

We got the lowest pay raise since the Clinton Administration this year. 1.9%

Novaheart
06-04-2011, 01:18 PM
Not from what I've studied. But their pay...as it is now when compared to civilian jobs is still very low.

I know that my dad when he was a Ssgt in the Air Force in 1964 was making approximately $260 a month after taxes. And that included overseas pay and extra pay for his job.

When I started in 1992 base pay for a Private was $795 before taxes.

When I got promoted to E-4 the first time my pay was $1,600 a month before taxes. Now IIRC PFC's are making just about that much.

We got the lowest pay raise since the Clinton Administration this year. 1.9%

Then you guys have a Public Relations problem. I am serious about that, it's not a nasty remark.

I am the public, and I am under the impression that military pay has been increased substantially since Bush, such that we border on people joining for the pay rather than the vocation. We keep reading about enormous re-enlistment bonuses, often by those who claim to have turned them down to return to civilian life and family. We also read about generals and admirals who make very good money for what they do (most of them being administrative) who then go on to seemingly unrelated and yet somehow corrupt careers outside the military (or sometimes while still serving in some capacity) at tremendous salaries. Many of the lobbyists for defense industries have retired military men working for them, and many of these companies will hire a high profile general for the board. It almost seems like payback for consideration.

Again, I am saying that these are commonly held perceptions and if they are false then the military has a PR problem. It's not an accusation on my part.

txradioguy
06-04-2011, 02:09 PM
Then you guys have a Public Relations problem. I am serious about that, it's not a nasty remark.

I agree. When you've got sitting (Democratic) Congresscritters saying that soldiers make too much...we've got a PR problem.


I am the public, and I am under the impression that military pay has been increased substantially since Bush, such that we border on people joining for the pay rather than the vocation. We keep reading about enormous re-enlistment bonuses, often by those who claim to have turned them down to return to civilian life and family. We also read about generals and admirals who make very good money for what they do (most of them being administrative) who then go on to seemingly unrelated and yet somehow corrupt careers outside the military (or sometimes while still serving in some capacity) at tremendous salaries. Many of the lobbyists for defense industries have retired military men working for them, and many of these companies will hire a high profile general for the board. It almost seems like payback for consideration.

Let me take this one at a time.

1) It is true that President Bush did increase our salaries. The largest pay raise I had under Clinton the first time I was active duty was 2.1%. None of the raises we got kept up with inflation. We did have married junior enlisted soldiers applying for food stamps and other welfare benefits during the same time time period. (Full disclosure: I used WIC with my oldest daughter while I was on Active Duty in 1994) But then again Clinton was denying money to all aspects of the military that severely cut into our readiness. There were three different Army divisions decertified for deployment because they fell below 70% readiness. Ody can attest to this as well.

Yes we got big raises under Bush...but they came nowhere near bringing us to parity with the civilian sector and they were far less than what Reagan did in the 80's.


2) Bonuses - I heard rumors of some 6 figures bonuses but never could verity one. And that was supposedly offered to Special Forces to keep them in uniform early in the WoT when Rummy was expanding the Special Operations realm.

Most bonuses average between $9-18K before taxes. That's right. We get bonuses but the Fed takes back on average about half of it in taxes...unless we re-up in a combat zone where all our pay and allowances are tax free. There are other strings attached to bonuses such as a lump sum upon completion of AIT and the rest of it paid out over a period of months...again with taxes taken out.

Some MOS's never get a bonus or are only offered one once for a soldiers entire career. I'm an example of that. I got my one and only bonus a little over three years ago when I re-enlisted indefinite. Which at my current rank means I serve at the will of the Army for up to 26 years time in service (2024 as of right now). I got $6K for that and $3K in after tax dollars.

There are other MOS's that never get a bonus because it's so easy to fill the ranks for that job off the street it's not needed.

3) Officers/GO's - Ody please feel free to step in and correct me on this as needed. A General Officer with over 20 years in service makes 15K per month before taxes. There are other monies added for duty position (Army CofS...Chairman of the Joint Chiefs...etc) GO's make up roughly .5% of the total military force. Not all are administrative in their duties. The different service chiefs used to be more hands on but there was some piece of legislation that was passed taking their power away from them. They are more senior policy advisors to their civilian counterparts than actual power brokers in the military anymore at that level.

There are a lot of one two and even a few three star GO's that are down at the hands on...tactical level of Army operations.

The average retirement rank for Officers is O-5 (Lieutenant Colonel). The downside to becoming a Flag Officer is that it becomes VERY political and that sometimes means the good tactical commanders don't get their star while the ones that shake the hand of the right Congresscritter does.

Rummy set up the environment for retired officers to move from being a military officer into a civilian contractor and all the problems that entails. The problem is split equally between the defense contractors that hire them...often times to turn around and work on projects they oversaw while in uniform or that they specifically created before retirement to profit from at a later date.

Those types are the the ones that give the ones that are honest and above board a bad name. There are a lot of officers...and enlisted to that get out or retire and go to work for a defense contractor and are legit.

But the media in it's typical fashion focuses on only the bad apples and gives the impression ALL retired officers (except of course the ones that work for the media) are crooked and dishonest.

There are companies that do like to hire retired GO's for their corporate board or in a high level high recognition position. It brings a level of credibility and a "military friendly" image to the company. Others are hired for their organizational and leadership skills. The thinking is that if you can navigate the maze of Government regulations and red tape in the Pentagon the corporate world should be a piece of cake.

And if that company does business with the DoD or the Fed...well then it ALWAYS helps to "know a guy who knows a guy". :D


Again, I am saying that these are commonly held perceptions and if they are false then the military has a PR problem. It's not an accusation on my part.

No offense taken I understand what you're saying. I hope I was able to clarify things a bit.

Another factoid I'd like to add...it wasn't until FY 2004 that a Command Sergeant Major (E-9) made as much as a Captain (O-3).

Oh and FWIW...just saw a blurb while doing my research for the pay part of this that the FY 2012 raise being proposed right now is 1.6%.

lacarnut
06-04-2011, 02:22 PM
Then you guys have a Public Relations problem. I am serious about that, it's not a nasty remark.

I am the public, and I am under the impression that military pay has been increased substantially since Bush, such that we border on people joining for the pay rather than the vocation. We keep reading about enormous re-enlistment bonuses, often by those who claim to have turned them down to return to civilian life and family. We also read about generals and admirals who make very good money for what they do (most of them being administrative) who then go on to seemingly unrelated and yet somehow corrupt careers outside the military (or sometimes while still serving in some capacity) at tremendous salaries. Many of the lobbyists for defense industries have retired military men working for them, and many of these companies will hire a high profile general for the board. It almost seems like payback for consideration.



You mean politicians do not do the same thing. Betcha the retired military personnel in private industry make a pittance in compensation to what retired politicians make. So, there is that. Plus, politicians gets perks way beyond what the military gets. Politicians can serve a couple of terms and receive a fat pension for life plus they do not have to get VA health care. Service members have to serve at least 20 years to rec. a pension. The time it takes to get an appointment at the VA and the run around you get sucks. You think that many top ranking officers do not have CEO and administrative qualities. You just don't know what the hell you are talking about. You make yourself look like an idiot or either you are dissing on the military. You need to STFU.

Bailey
06-04-2011, 02:43 PM
I feel your pain tex, I havent had a raise in almost two years :(

Molon Labe
06-04-2011, 02:45 PM
Pay and benefits should not be the part of the military that gets cuts. You have to take care of soldiers and their families, especially during deployments and these operations. Heck....it's hard enough to live on E-1 to E4 pay for some guys. There's probably going to be cuts coming, but it should be more in overseas spending than in personnel.

djones520
06-04-2011, 11:02 PM
I've got a bit of experience with the reenlistment bonuses. From the AF perspective atleast, my AFSC, Weather, was getting a bonus factor of 4 back in 2004.

What that meants was they took their monthly base pay, then multiply it by that factor. So an E5 with 6 years was making $2130 a month in 2004. Multiply that by 4 and you get 8520. Then you multiply that by how many years they reenlist for, with such big numbers it was frequent to see 6 years, so $51,120. Reenlist while deployed, and it's tax free.

That's a big chunk of change. They then pay you half up front, and split the rest for a once a year payment for every year of that enlistment.

That has DRASTICALLY gone down now. Right now, the zone i'm in has a bonus of 0. If I reenlist after Feb, I'll get a 1 (which is my plan), that'll net me around $13k before taxes. If I'm extremely lucky and make E6 this year, that'll go up by a thousand or so maybe.

fettpett
06-04-2011, 11:04 PM
I don't think the Millitary should have to pay taxes, period. It's insane, also all jobs should be on at lest competitive with civilian sector in pay.

Rockntractor
06-04-2011, 11:14 PM
If a high percentage of military would have voted for Obama you would be seeing a huge increase, you scratch his back and he'll scratch yours, that's been shown to be true many times over in other areas.

Adam Wood
06-04-2011, 11:31 PM
I don't think the Millitary should have to pay taxes, period. It's insane, also all jobs should be on at lest competitive with civilian sector in pay.
I tend to agree, at least as far as those who are deployed, but I certainly wouldn't be opposed to extending that to all troops.

I've long said that if I were elected emperor of the US, the very first thing I would do is increase all enlisted and non-com pay by 10% immediately and then have a blue ribbon panel investigate differences between civilian pay and enlisted pay for the same jobs and adjust the pay accordingly. We have a tremendous problem with "brain drain" just in pilots leaving the service after a few years of training and walking right into a $150K job operating a 737 going from Chicago to Dallas three times a week. Who paid to train them to fly that jet? Well, we did, the taxpayers, and while I certainly don't fault anyone who takes a better deal, we still should make sure that the "better deal" is sticking with the military whenever possible. The simple loss of experience alone is a dangerous situation for the rest of the military.

djones520
06-04-2011, 11:43 PM
I tend to agree, at least as far as those who are deployed, but I certainly wouldn't be opposed to extending that to all troops.

I've long said that if I were elected emperor of the US, the very first thing I would do is increase all enlisted and non-com pay by 10% immediately and then have a blue ribbon panel investigate differences between civilian pay and enlisted pay for the same jobs and adjust the pay accordingly. We have a tremendous problem with "brain drain" just in pilots leaving the service after a few years of training and walking right into a $150K job operating a 737 going from Chicago to Dallas three times a week. Who paid to train them to fly that jet? Well, we did, the taxpayers, and while I certainly don't fault anyone who takes a better deal, we still should make sure that the "better deal" is sticking with the military whenever possible. The simple loss of experience alone is a dangerous situation for the rest of the military.

Most deployed troops don't pay taxes. Some, like at Al Udeid, and Al Dhafra do, but they aren't in hostile fire zones.

Anywhere you have significant risk of getting shot, or Manas :D, you don't end up paying taxes.

Molon Labe
06-04-2011, 11:44 PM
I don't think the Millitary should have to pay taxes, period. It's insane, also all jobs should be on at lest competitive with civilian sector in pay.

there are some perks concerning that. Many commissary items and things you get at the PX have no sales tax.

djones520
06-04-2011, 11:50 PM
there are some perks concerning that. Many commissary items and things you get at the PX have no sales tax.

That is true. Though, when your overseas, you kinda end up getting dicked because those BX/PX prices are marked up. We did a lot of online shopping when I was stationed in Japan.

Gas prices on base are usually a few cents lower as well, though here it's been right on par with the local community.

nightflight
06-05-2011, 12:26 AM
hmmmmm, thats part of the price of pretending that a Usurper in the WH is a 'fringe' issue. But hey why should you and your buds have an exemption from the income loss that no one in the private economy is exempt from, eh? If the pay & benefits don't suit you are certainly free to depart when your your contract comes up for renewal.


Its okay to be a douche, but not at 23 posts.

megimoo
06-05-2011, 09:34 AM
If a high percentage of military would have voted for Obama you would be seeing a huge increase, you scratch his back and he'll scratch yours, that's been shown to be true many times over in other areas.The so called Progressives never want to count the deployed military viote .They go out of their war to negate it !

Molon Labe
06-05-2011, 01:11 PM
The so called Progressives never want to count the deployed military viote .They go out of their war to negate it !

The miltary haven't traditionally voted for the left since before Vietnam.

Calypso Jones
06-05-2011, 02:33 PM
No home based federal employee should be making more than what they would be making in the public sector and then whatever they made would be substantially less than what military personnel made. Senators and Reps shold not be bringing in ANY salry since serving this country in that capacity should be an honor. MEANING. Don't quit your day job. Not only would that cut costs, it might improve the calibre of the people who wanted to hold that office AND we'd be safer since they would be in session much less time.

:) i'm serious.

megimoo
06-05-2011, 02:42 PM
The miltary haven't traditionally voted for the left since before Vietnam.Perhaps that's why the never count their votes ?