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View Full Version : No Opt-Out For Opponents Of Gays In The Military



Apocalypse
06-06-2011, 07:41 AM
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/06/05/robert-gates-dadt-op-out-gays-military_n_871506.html

....Gates, who is on a tour of Afghanistan to bid farewell to the troops before stepping down at the end of the month, was quizzed by a Marine sergeant about the controversial policy during a question and answer session at a base in southwestern Helmand Province.....

"Sir, we joined the Marine Corps because the Marine Corps has a set of standards and values that is better than that of the civilian sector. And we have gone and changed those values and repealed the 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' policy," the sergeant told Gates during the question and answer session.


"We have not given the Marines a chance to decide whether they wish to continue serving under that. Is there going to be an option for those Marines that no longer wish to serve due to the fact their moral values have not changed?" he asked.


"No," Gates responded. "You'll have to complete your ... enlistment just like everybody else."

Odysseus
06-06-2011, 12:18 PM
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/06/05/robert-gates-dadt-op-out-gays-military_n_871506.html

....Gates, who is on a tour of Afghanistan to bid farewell to the troops before stepping down at the end of the month, was quizzed by a Marine sergeant about the controversial policy during a question and answer session at a base in southwestern Helmand Province.....

"Sir, we joined the Marine Corps because the Marine Corps has a set of standards and values that is better than that of the civilian sector. And we have gone and changed those values and repealed the 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' policy," the sergeant told Gates during the question and answer session.

"We have not given the Marines a chance to decide whether they wish to continue serving under that. Is there going to be an option for those Marines that no longer wish to serve due to the fact their moral values have not changed?" he asked.

"No," Gates responded. "You'll have to complete your ... enlistment just like everybody else."
Opt-outs would imply that the administration has done something controversial and that the sensibilities of those who oppose the change must be accomodated. Since leftist ideas are never controversial (only opposition to them ist), that cannot fly. It would also put the administration on the defensive, since they would have to explain why they are forcing one extremely small (but politically important) group on the force, but allowing much larger numbers to leave as a result. And every member who opted out would be a hard number, something that could be tracked, while those who simply ETS cannot be said to have left over the policy change with 100% certainty. OTOH, those personnel who run afoul of the new policy by failing to demonstrate the proper acceptance of alternative lifestyles will be purged and denounced as bigots, which will cow those who remain.

AmPat
06-06-2011, 03:03 PM
I'll be exiting after the new year, it's the earliest I can leave. :cool:

BadCat
06-06-2011, 07:31 PM
Well Ody, Obumble certainly admires the Euros, so now he'll have a military just like that of....France.

Kay
06-06-2011, 09:07 PM
I bet that Marine got an official ass-chewing for asking such a question,
followed by an un-official high five and kudos for asking such a question.

CaughtintheMiddle1990
06-06-2011, 09:52 PM
Never saw the big fuckin deal with gays in the military. I'm a heterosexual guy but if I saw two guys holding hands, kissing, it wouldn't gross me out. If I was in a situation like the military and a guy hit on me, I'd just report 'em to my superiors. I really don't see what the big deal is.

People leaving the military simply because gays can now OFFICIALLY be in it...it's silly. The gays were already there, you just didn't know it.

Odysseus
06-06-2011, 10:50 PM
Never saw the big fuckin deal with gays in the military. I'm a heterosexual guy but if I saw two guys holding hands, kissing, it wouldn't gross me out. If I was in a situation like the military and a guy hit on me, I'd just report 'em to my superiors. I really don't see what the big deal is.

People leaving the military simply because gays can now OFFICIALLY be in it...it's silly. The gays were already there, you just didn't know it.

You're late to the party. We've rehashed this more times than I care to think about, and there's far more to it than you get. If you want to understand the issues, ask. If you think that you already know them, trust me, you don't.

Kay
06-06-2011, 11:04 PM
I'm a heterosexual guy but if I saw two guys holding hands,
kissing, it wouldn't gross me out.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_W638ntGwp10/TBlldnMVlYI/AAAAAAAAAKE/_0veyRM69oc/s1600/man-card.jpg

megimoo
06-07-2011, 12:21 AM
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_W638ntGwp10/TBlldnMVlYI/AAAAAAAAAKE/_0veyRM69oc/s1600/man-card.jpg
He sounds like he's right on the edge and about to go over ?Must be just a kid and doesn't know any better ?

djones520
06-07-2011, 01:32 AM
I'm curious if any of our active duty members here know anyone who is planning on getting out because of this. I haven't heard of any myself. Actually... I have barely heard anyone talk about it period, outside of the "required" training we had to do a couple months ago.

Odysseus
06-07-2011, 01:56 PM
I'm curious if any of our active duty members here know anyone who is planning on getting out because of this. I haven't heard of any myself. Actually... I have barely heard anyone talk about it period, outside of the "required" training we had to do a couple months ago.

At the division level, it's been about jumping through our own asses to complete the training and reporting requirements for our subordinate brigades, so we haven't really focused on the effects on other people's asses yet. However, the general impression is that nobody above the rank of E6 seems to think that this is a good idea. The execution has been a complete goat rope, with DOD sending us a bunch of slides to ram down everyone's throats with a very short suspense (fortunately, we don't do anything of greater importance, like training for war :rolleyes:). As for people getting out, so far, I've not heard anyone cite this as the only reason, but a lot of troopies are fed up with the PC idiocy, and this is just one more staw for the camel's back. I'm the DIV CUOPS officer and that means that I am the final review of all orders before the G3 approves them for publication. I'd say that anywhere between 1/3 and 1/2 of our orders are derived from issues of sexual conflicts between Soldiers. Last week, the entire post shut down for a full day for a safety stand down on domestic violence and abuse awareness training, and that's on top of the regular training that we do throughout the year on Prevention of Sexual Harrassment (POSH), Sexual Harrassment and Assault Prevention (SHARP), Equal Opportunity Training, IG training, JAG classes...

Can we please just go back to killing the bad guys?

Kay
06-07-2011, 11:24 PM
Can we please just go back to killing the bad guys?

Yes. You have my permission to do just that.

djones520
06-07-2011, 11:54 PM
At the division level, it's been about jumping through our own asses to complete the training and reporting requirements for our subordinate brigades, so we haven't really focused on the effects on other people's asses yet. However, the general impression is that nobody above the rank of E6 seems to think that this is a good idea. The execution has been a complete goat rope, with DOD sending us a bunch of slides to ram down everyone's throats with a very short suspense (fortunately, we don't do anything of greater importance, like training for war :rolleyes:). As for people getting out, so far, I've not heard anyone cite this as the only reason, but a lot of troopies are fed up with the PC idiocy, and this is just one more staw for the camel's back. I'm the DIV CUOPS officer and that means that I am the final review of all orders before the G3 approves them for publication. I'd say that anywhere between 1/3 and 1/2 of our orders are derived from issues of sexual conflicts between Soldiers. Last week, the entire post shut down for a full day for a safety stand down on domestic violence and abuse awareness training, and that's on top of the regular training that we do throughout the year on Prevention of Sexual Harrassment (POSH), Sexual Harrassment and Assault Prevention (SHARP), Equal Opportunity Training, IG training, JAG classes...

Can we please just go back to killing the bad guys?

Interesting your having such training issues. Ours was simple and straight forward. The AF put together a 25 slide presentation, posted it on the AF Training website, and set a suspense date to have it completed. Work smarter, not harder guys. :p

wilbur
06-08-2011, 12:16 AM
I vote that all of Odysseus's posts get automatically moved to the "It's the End of the World I Tell ya!" topic.


Really.



Seriously.

Rockntractor
06-08-2011, 12:25 AM
I vote that all of Odysseus's posts get automatically moved to the "It's the End of the World I Tell ya!" topic.


Really.



Seriously.

What say I?

I hope they sort it out!

Odysseus
06-08-2011, 11:06 AM
Interesting your having such training issues. Ours was simple and straight forward. The AF put together a 25 slide presentation, posted it on the AF Training website, and set a suspense date to have it completed. Work smarter, not harder guys. :p
I'm sorry, did I read the words "work" and "Air Force" in the same sentence? :D He had to actually document our training, which meant that each person had to be briefed and sign the roster.

I vote that all of Odysseus's posts get automatically moved to the "It's the End of the World I Tell ya!" topic.


Really.



Seriously.

Only if every post of yours gets automatically moved to "Stupid Liberal Tricks." Seriously.

Rockntractor
06-08-2011, 12:53 PM
I'm sorry, did I read the words "work" and "Air Force" in the same sentence? :D He had to actually document our training, which meant that each person had to be briefed and sign the roster.


Only if every post of yours gets automatically moved to "Stupid Liberal Tricks." Seriously.

We need another forum known as the Wilbur zone for our more bewilbured posters!

Odysseus
06-08-2011, 02:41 PM
We need another forum known as the Wilbur zone for our more bewilbured posters!

Why not just rename "Stupid Liberal Tricks" and kill two birds with one stone? :D