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megimoo
06-07-2008, 07:41 PM
DHS Signs Deal With Israel on Airport Security

For anyone tired of TSA treating their toiletries as a menace, there's good news on the horizon. On May 29th, DHS Secretary Michael Chertoff signed a landmark deal with Israel to share information about airport security. This means that DHS will beef up its behavior profiling system which looks for bombers, not bombs. Although Israel's passenger profiling system is based on behavior, critics say it's based on race. In my column for Pajamas Media this morning, I explain why this inference is false ó citing the bloody Lod Airport massacre in May 1972...


http://www.theaviationnation.com/

SarasotaRepub
06-07-2008, 08:19 PM
Excellent!!! This should drive the Libs nuts!! :D

In all seriousness, I don't have a problem with this.

The Israelis are cunning bastards, I admire that. And, from the linky...



They haven't had an attack in the aviation domain since.

Bubba Dawg
06-07-2008, 10:00 PM
It's hard to argue with success.

megimoo
06-07-2008, 10:03 PM
It's hard to argue with success.Stand by for the anger of Zeus amid ligtning bolts and great rolling thunder !:D

LogansPapa
06-07-2008, 11:57 PM
Been saying this for the past five years. And also making that 9-11 more-than-likely would have never happened if the Israelis would have trained us previous to the 2001 attacks.

Sending your luggage to a secured warehouse for a complete inspection two weeks before your flight isn't a hardship. A $2,500 bond on each piece of pre-checked luggage should be mandatory - to keep the airport monkeys that transport the stuff in line and keep pilferage to a minimum.

Curb-side questioning and a continuing process, randomly, should also be in place and I'm not referring to going through the typical motions - asking if you've been in contact with your carry-on at all times. Screw what folks think about their rights as the flying public regarding whatever is required to secure the aircraft and facilities. They don't HAVE TO FLY.

Aklover
06-08-2008, 01:34 AM
How about "Fly at Your Own Risk Airlines". If I can fly and be armed I would happily sign the waiver. They can just give you frangible ammunition at boarding and you can turn it in upon arrival at your destination.

Sonnabend
06-08-2008, 10:23 AM
Sending your luggage to a secured warehouse for a complete inspection two weeks before your flight isn't a hardship. A $2,500 bond on each piece of pre-checked luggage should be mandatory - to keep the airport monkeys that transport the stuff in line and keep pilferage to a minimum.

You're insane.


Curb-side questioning and a continuing process, randomly

Suspending the Constitution, are we?


asking if you've been in contact with your carry-on at all times

"No, its been in a two week hold in a warehouse"....ask a stupid question, get a stupid answer.

Have you always been this much of an idiot, or is it some kind of birth defect?


They don't HAVE TO FLY.

How the fuck do they get to any other country outside the US..swim??? How do you suggest people flying INTO the US get there...flap their arms???

A businessman who has to be in Colorado in two hours to conclude a million dollar contract that will create a thousand jobs doesn't have to fly?
A man who travels as part of his work and has to be in another state in a short time doesn't need to fly? A woman who is going to see her family in another state doesn't have to fly??

What do you suggest they do...walk???
Drive and turn a journey of two hours into one lasting three days?
Tell me...which takes longer..a car trip from New York to Washington or a plane trip from New York to Washington????

http://www.darkworks.org/uranidiot.jpg

Sonnabend
06-08-2008, 10:36 AM
A $2,500 bond on each piece of pre-checked luggage should be mandatory

$2, 500 x 4 pieces of luggage = $10,000.00

Riighttttt.........

Idiot.

LogansPapa
06-08-2008, 10:56 AM
$2, 500 x 4 pieces of luggage = $10,000.00

Riighttttt.........

Idiot.

When was the last hijacking out of Israel?

The questioning process employs college students and if you don't give the appropriate answers - you get handing off to a professional. If you don't want to cooperate, then you get to go into a room with a person with rubber gloves and a great deal of lubricant. Again, this has nothing to do with Constitutional rights - flying is a privilege - not a right. No different than having a driver's license in my country.

The bond issue is no different than an insurance policy. Once the piece of luggage is sealed with the government Mylar ribbon - it easily shows if its been tampered with by the luggage handlers. That's all, not $2,500 you have to pay - but insurance on that piece to guard against theft. The system we use here presently is a farce and anything can be taken out of or put into your luggage once it's out of sight.

BTW: I'm sorry gator bitch slapped you - it's not my fault he made you look like a shela.

Sonnabend
06-08-2008, 11:24 AM
Again, this has nothing to do with Constitutional rights - flying is a privilege - not a right. No different than having a driver's license in my country.

Again, i point out that you are a fucking idiot, and that people have to fly because of a little thing called distance.

I repeat the question: how does a man who has to get from the US to Europe get there?

Walk?

How does a woman who is in Cleveland get to Washington in a day?

Without air transport, the US grinds to a halt. Have you always been this thick?


The bond issue is no different than an insurance policy. Once the piece of luggage is sealed with the government Mylar ribbon - it easily shows if its been tampered with by the luggage handlers. That's all, not $2,500 you have to pay - but insurance on that piece to guard against theft. The system we use here presently is a farce and anything can be taken out of or put into your luggage once it's out of sight.

...and no one is capable of getting around that little ribbon? If a hacker can reverse engineer the most sophisticated computer system and hack into US military databases, then a simple ribbon is child's play.

LogansPapa
06-08-2008, 11:46 AM
Again, i point out that you are a fucking idiot, and that people have to fly because of a little thing called distance.

I repeat the question: how does a man who has to get from the US to Europe get there?

Walk?

How does a woman who is in Cleveland get to Washington in a day?

Without air transport, the US grinds to a halt. Have you always been this thick?



...and no one is capable of getting around that little ribbon? If a hacker can reverse engineer the most sophisticated computer system and hack into US military databases, then a simple ribbon is child's play.

Again - it works in Israel and none of their citizens seem to mind, and when they want to fly (again, flying is not mandatory - you can take another venue or just not go. Your life's not going to end on any account.) they go through the security process. Nice dodge, BTW, regarding my question as to when they had their last highjacking. And finally, yes - any security system can be gotten around. None is perfect - but as can be seen in this week's Air Force firings - most security problems are perpetuated by human factors - not the systems therein.

Sonnabend
06-08-2008, 11:50 AM
Again - it works in Israel and none of their citizens seem to mind, and when they want to fly (again, flying is not mandatory - you can take another venue or just not go. Your life's not going to end on any account.)

ANSWER THE FUCKING QUESTION

In direct response to your idiotic "They dont have to fly"

HOW does a person who needs to go from the US to Europe get to their destination.

LogansPapa
06-08-2008, 11:54 AM
ANSWER THE FUCKING QUESTION

In direct response to your idiotic "They dont have to fly"

HOW does a person who needs to go from the US to Europe get to their destination.

Of course they fly - and in the new format we need to watch our mouths. It's just the adult thing to do. But other than business - who HAS to fly to Eurpoe? It's a luxury - not a necessity, dear little over-wound buddy.

;)

Sonnabend
06-08-2008, 12:09 PM
Look, when you have more than two brain cells to rub together, let me know.


But other than business - who HAS to fly to Eurpoe? It's a luxury - not a necessity, dear little over-wound buddy.

I'm curious..do you have one of those recorders in your ear...the one that repeats "breathe in...breathe out.."?

Odysseus
06-08-2008, 12:23 PM
ANSWER THE FUCKING QUESTION
In direct response to your idiotic "They dont have to fly"
HOW does a person who needs to go from the US to Europe get to their destination.

I'm just amazed that LogansPapa has found something that he likes about Israel.

The two week impound for luggage is unrealistic. There's too much spur-of-moment travel in the US for that to be feasable. What would work is a 100% search of all bags, checked or otherwise, at check in, with a bonding band around the checked baggage afterwards to prevent theft by airline employees (for some reason, they've never found any contaband in my bags, but I did have a camera stolen out of a checked bag). That also means that travellers would have to be prepared to arrive earlier and the TSA would have to ensure that they have the manpower to keep the lines moving.

Now, here's the idea that I had after 9/11, which nobody expressed any interest in, but would work: Military personnel fly TDY throughout the world, with a tremendous amount of travel in CONUS, and the US government spends a fortune on it. Here's the plan: As an adjunct to the current combatives training, add a bloc of instruction on the use of a TASER, counter-terror ops and aircraft protection. Then, whenever a Soldier, Sailor, Airman or Marine travels on a US carrier on orders (or Space-A), that service member should travel in full battle-rattle and be issued a TASER. In effect, they become extremely visible Air Marshalls.

LogansPapa
06-08-2008, 12:24 PM
Look, when you have more than two brain cells to rub together, let me know.



I'm curious..do you have one of those recorders in your ear...the one that repeats "breathe in...breathe out.."?


I got'cha. Can't compete - time to retreat. Too bad.;)

megimoo
06-08-2008, 12:28 PM
Look, when you have more than two brain cells to rub together, let me know.



I'm curious..do you have one of those recorders in your ear...the one that repeats "breathe in...breathe out.."?Sonna you sure enjoy ripping that critter a new a*shole .Just reading the exchange made me ROFLMAO .He is tenacious and semi-unflappable but he definitely would lead a saint to drink .I especially enjoyed the little voice in his ear part,you two could make a fortune putting that show on Perthís Sugar Blue Burlesque Company !!

Vepr
06-08-2008, 12:34 PM
There is not constitutional guarentee for air travel and there is always a boat. Also when it comes to business most of it can be done over teleconference these days anyways.

Sonnabend
06-08-2008, 01:10 PM
There is not constitutional guarentee for air travel and there is always a boat.Right. Shuttle the traffic of all the internaitional airports and put them on boats.

All fifty million people. (http://www.tinet.ita.doc.gov/cat/f-2005-101-002.html)

In one calendar year, close to fifty million people enter or leave the US...either as inbound tourists, visitors, diplomatic delegations or outbound US tourism to other nations.

Change a fifteen hour flight to thirty days by ship.

Bravo. Bright idea.


Also when it comes to business most of it can be done over teleconference these days anyways.

No.

Vepr
06-08-2008, 01:15 PM
Right. Shuttle the traffic of all the internaitional airport and put them on boats.

All fifty million people. (http://www.tinet.ita.doc.gov/cat/f-2005-101-002.html)



....No.

The constituion was mentioned so I was pointing out, just like driving flight is not guarenteed it is a privilege. These days a flight is not required every time you want to do international business.

If you do not like it fire up your own Zepplin business. I might even invest depending on whether or not I can get a full look at your business plan and other backing without having to fly internationally to see it. ;)

Sonnabend
06-08-2008, 01:28 PM
The constituion was mentioned so I was pointing out, just like driving flight is not guarenteed it is a privilege. These days a flight is not required every time you want to do international business.

AHEM

Go stand in the corner, next to Logans Papa. Take this book on commerce and tourism with you.

When you have finished reading it, come back to my desk.You will then write me a five hundred word essay

"How my stupid idea will lead to the economic collapse of the United States"

Dismissed.

Vepr
06-08-2008, 01:53 PM
lol. Tightening up airport security is not going to cause an economic collapse. (Our own politicians along with a growing populace of socialists will accomplish that well before airport security).

mark1
06-08-2008, 01:55 PM
I flew to Isreal form JFK on ELAL, which used to be Israel's national airline until it was privatized. When you see their security, it becomes obvious why this contract was signed.

When you stand in line during check in, they have trained employees who look for signs of nervousness. If they are suspicious, they will question you on line before you even get to the checkout gate. If you answer any questions wrong, even a small detail, or tell them something else that they don't like, you will either be refused entry to the plane right there, or be taken to a side room for a full interrogation, maybe even a strip search. And even after that, you might be refused entry to the plane.

They have their own security separate from the airport's. They scan your full body and luggage. The luggage that passed the scanner is then taken to a side room and searched throughly. Sometimes, when I landed, the inside of my luggage was arranged differently then when I packed it.

All of the stewards and stewardesses on the plane have prior military experience, and they have undercover people on board who are packing heat and not afraid to use it.

They also racially profile Arabs. Many arabs don't make it past security. Some do.

For those that are concerned about the constitution, they do this here, in America. If you don't believe me, fly to Israel on ELAL.

LogansPapa
06-08-2008, 01:58 PM
Coming from an island - I can understand the perspective. An entire nation can be dependent on tourist's dollars, but mine is not. Most Americans fly because it's a once ore twice a year luxury. They don't have to do it. With fuel sur-charges sprouting up for new reasons every week, business flight within the continental United States will remain the backbone of the industry.

But don't kid yourself, Continental's lay-offs last Wednesday are just the beginning and as far as my business goes, if it were not for military AOG components - I would have suffered a 25% downturn in profit this year, so far.

Train ridership - both local and interstate, is exploding. There are reality indicators there for those who have the moxi. If another aircraft derived attack comes to the US you'll see this supposed 'right to fly' go into extinction.

Oh, and dismissed thing, gator does it better.;)

LogansPapa
06-08-2008, 02:01 PM
For those that are concerned about the constitution, they do this here, in America. If you don't believe me, fly to Israel on ELAL.

:cool: F'ing Bingo on the Dingo! Full Marks!

Sonnabend
06-08-2008, 02:06 PM
Coming from an island - I can understand the perspective. An entire nation can be dependent on tourist's dollars, but mine is not

Wrong.:rolleyes:

LogansPapa
06-08-2008, 02:14 PM
Wrong.:rolleyes:

Wow. Touchť. Nice retort.

Sonnabend
06-08-2008, 02:32 PM
Wow. Touchť. Nice retort.

I am not here to educate you.If you have no understanding of your own economy,. and the impact that tourism and travel has in the US, its not my fault.

I am not responsible for your level of ignorance.

You know two things, LP, jack and shit. And Jack left town last night.

LogansPapa
06-08-2008, 03:02 PM
You know two things, LP, jack and shit. And Jack left town last night.

I guess if you've been shown not to have any concept of the Israeli flight security system you have to resort to this kind of display. Pathetic.:rolleyes:

Sonnabend
06-08-2008, 05:56 PM
I guess if you've been shown not to have any concept of the Israeli flight security system you have to resort to this kind of display. Pathetic.

Read my post above, you fool.

noonwitch
06-09-2008, 08:39 AM
I flew to Isreal form JFK on ELAL, which used to be Israel's national airline until it was privatized. When you see their security, it becomes obvious why this contract was signed.

When you stand in line during check in, they have trained employees who look for signs of nervousness. If they are suspicious, they will question you on line before you even get to the checkout gate. If you answer any questions wrong, even a small detail, or tell them something else that they don't like, you will either be refused entry to the plane right there, or be taken to a side room for a full interrogation, maybe even a strip search. And even after that, you might be refused entry to the plane.

They have their own security separate from the airport's. They scan your full body and luggage. The luggage that passed the scanner is then taken to a side room and searched throughly. Sometimes, when I landed, the inside of my luggage was arranged differently then when I packed it.

All of the stewards and stewardesses on the plane have prior military experience, and they have undercover people on board who are packing heat and not afraid to use it.

They also racially profile Arabs. Many arabs don't make it past security. Some do.

For those that are concerned about the constitution, they do this here, in America. If you don't believe me, fly to Israel on ELAL.


I haven't been on a plane since 1984-I prefer driving places, whenever possible, and seeing the landscape and eating at local restaurants as I travel. If I ever go to Europe or west of the Rockies, I'll fly.

But reading all I have about post 9-11 airport security, I'd rather see something like this, that is comprehensive, than the whole "no hair gel or hand lotion" stupidity thing they've got going now.

biccat
06-09-2008, 09:28 AM
I don't understand the issue here Sonnabend. If you want to fly to Europe, there's no problem. Only when you start trying to bring contraband onto the airplane do the problems arise.

Legitimate business people will adapt, they will bring a carryon overnight bag with them and have luggage shipped, or they would plan ahead and abide by the two week notice.

While this would be a huge inconvenience for a lot of people, I don't see how it tramples on any Constitutional rights.

Sonnabend
06-09-2008, 09:33 AM
I don't understand the issue here Sonnabend. If you want to fly to Europe, there's no problem. Only when you start trying to bring contraband onto the airplane do the problems arise.Biccat: the issue is his idiotic comment "they dont have to fly"...my immediate reply is what does he suggest they do....walk? The rest is fine....his idiocy is in suggesting that flight is a luxury.

Flight is a necessity.

And compounding his stupidity is in considering just how much the US and the rest of the world is dependent on air travel.

biccat
06-09-2008, 10:41 AM
Biccat: the issue is his idiotic comment "they dont have to fly"...my immediate reply is what does he suggest they do....walk? The rest is fine....his idiocy is in suggesting that flight is a luxury.

Flight is a necessity.

And compounding his stupidity is in considering just how much the US and the rest of the world is dependent on air travel.
Sure, but that doesn't mean we should cripple ourselves. Airports require a security check. You aren't required to go through this check, but if you don't, then you don't fly.

Yes, it was an idiotic comment, but I think you're getting hung up on it. LogansPapa is just upset because Obama decided to support Israel, and now he's sad that he will be voting for a Jew-Lover, so he's trying to pick fights.

Sonnabend
06-09-2008, 10:55 AM
Sure, but that doesn't mean we should cripple ourselves. Airports require a security check. You aren't required to go through this check, but if you don't, then you don't fly.

Agree 100%. Whatever measures are there to make the process easier, more accurate and more effective, go for it. I dont mind at all...I would be happy to go through an effective process.


Yes, it was an idiotic comment, but I think you're getting hung up on it. LogansPapa is just upset because Obama decided to support Israel, and now he's sad that he will be voting for a Jew-Lover, so he's trying to pick fights.

I know...it's kind of sad, LP really only has to functioning brain cells.

One's gotten itself lost...the other is out looking for it.

LogansPapa
06-09-2008, 10:57 AM
Yes, it was an idiotic comment, but I think you're getting hung up on it. LogansPapa is just upset because Obama decided to support Israel, and now he's sad that he will be voting for a Jew-Lover, so he's trying to pick fights.

:rolleyes:

Because we canít copy and paste the archives from the previous site, I will - again - publicly state, for this knobís education: I have no choice but to vote for Mr. John McCain, as a matter of loyalty to my father - who served with the man. Thatís it - end of story.

(I can do this just as long as you wish to insult the memory of an MCPO of the USN) :cool:

Odysseus
06-09-2008, 01:00 PM
:rolleyes:

Because we canít copy and paste the archives from the previous site, I will - again - publicly state, for this knobís education: I have no choice but to vote for Mr. John McCain, as a matter of loyalty to my father - who served with the man. Thatís it - end of story.

(I can do this just as long as you wish to insult the memory of an MCPO of the USN) :cool:

Oh please. Your conduct insults his memory far more than anything any of us could say.

LogansPapa
06-09-2008, 01:04 PM
Oh please. Your conduct insults his memory far more than anything any of us could say.

Using my freedom of speech and thinking independently insults the memory of his service? Interesting. Stupid, but interesting.

Odysseus
06-09-2008, 01:40 PM
Using my freedom of speech and thinking independently insults the memory of his service? Interesting. Stupid, but interesting.

If that's what you call your antisemitic ravings and discombobulated commentary, more power to you. Personally, I'd be embarrassed to bring my father's former stature into a debate, but only because I can fight my own battles.

LogansPapa
06-09-2008, 02:11 PM
If that's what you call your antisemitic ravings and discombobulated commentary, more power to you. Personally, I'd be embarrassed to bring my father's former stature into a debate, but only because I can fight my own battles.

Well, looking at what the United States of America sends to the State of Israel every year designated just for military hardware only, I find that very hard to believe. ;)

Odysseus
06-12-2008, 07:27 PM
Well, looking at what the United States of America sends to the State of Israel every year designated just for military hardware only, I find that very hard to believe. ;)

I'd be happy to demonstrate it. :p

megimoo
06-12-2008, 09:00 PM
If that's what you call your antisemitic ravings and discombobulated commentary, more power to you. Personally, I'd be embarrassed to bring my father's former stature into a debate, but only because I can fight my own battles.

discombobulated ,I love that word and it fits that critter so well.Can I use it please ?

Odysseus
06-13-2008, 02:48 PM
discombobulated ,I love that word and it fits that critter so well.Can I use it please ?

Of course, but I get a royalty. :D