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Odysseus
06-17-2011, 09:15 PM
Answer: No.

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2011/06/17/are-we-headed-for-a-new-ice-age
Look, everyone! Nightie's back! That's good, because the last time I posted a question that you couldn't answer, you disappeared for almost three months! Here it is again, so that we can take up where you left off:


Hey! Nightie's back! I was beginning to think that you were never going to come back and admit that you were wrong about the whole Van Jones thing. Here's the last post on the subject, from that other thread:



I can see we're getting nowhere. For the sake of argument, let's accept that the Atlantic Shores Christian School shooting is an example of a Columbine-style attack. I think it's a massive stretch to describe it as such but let's put that aside for now. How do we know that Van Jones knew about the 200 rounds of ammunition involved in the ASCS shooting when he made the claim that no black child has ever committed a Columbine-style attack? I checked out this claim of 200 rounds of ammunition (mostly because I don't trust you) and I can tell you there hasn't been much written about it, at least not in the mainstream press (unless you consider Mother Jones to be mainstream press). That doesn't mean the claim of 200 rounds isn't true but it does mean that Jones may not have known about it when he talked about school shootings. So, even if we accept that Jones was wrong to claim that no black child has ever committed a Columbine-style attack, that doesn't mean he's racist. It only means he's wrong.

You don't trust me? :rolleyes: Why is it that when Van Jones makes a sweeping statement about all white kids, you are prepared to contort yourself into various improbable shapes in order to deny that it is a racist sentiment, but when Glenn Beck makes a claim that Jones was a convicted felon, you assume nefarious motives?

And once again, you lie. There has been a great deal written about Elliott (over 90,000 hits on Google), although the most interesting thing is how often his race isn't mentioned in the articles. And after shooting two teachers, he continued to engage targets until he was tackled. From the Atlantic:


The Story of a Gun
By ERIK LARSON
On December 16, 1988, Nicholas Elliot, barely sixteen, walked into the Atlantic Shores Christian School, in Virginia Beach, Virginia, with a semi-automatic handgun hidden in his backpack. By midmorning a forty-one year-old teacher had been shot dead, and another teacher, struck by two nine-millimeter bullets, was extraordinarily lucky to be alive. Two other teachers narrowly escaped Nicholas Elliot's bullets.

If Jones didn't know about Elliott, then he is ignorant and makes sweeping statements about racial behaviors without knowledge of the facts. If I were to make the claim that no Jew ever committed a terrorist act, I'd Google it before I said something that could be proven false. Jones didn't know because he didn't want to know. In his mind, whites are violent, toxic racists. Any facts to the contrary would not have been of interest to him, just as they are not to you.


It's patently absurd to compare a massacre to an incident in which only 1 person was murdered. Moreover, you can't possibly know that Nicholas Elliott intended to commit mass murder. That's speculation on your part and if you were honest you'd admit that.
I am honest (far more than you), and I admit nothing of the sort. In fact, if you were honest, you'd admit that the presence of that much ammo demonstrates intent to shoot more than two people. Two hundred rounds of 9mm ammo weighs about 6-10 lbs, depending on how it's carried, but it's bulky and awkward, even if it's already in magazines. The cost for 200 rounds would be about $30-50 today, depending on type and manufacturer. So, you are claiming that a kid who planned to only shoot two people went to the trouble and expense to outfit himself with more than ten times as much ammo as his gun would hold in one clip, and then carry the extra weight and volume on his person with no intent to use it? Again, an honest man would admit that the kid clearly intended to do more than shoot two people, and that only the jamming of his gun prevented that (a fact that you have never mentioned once). Of course, an honest man would have admitted this long before now, so I know what I'm up against here.

Besides, it turns out that he had more than just ammunition:


http://articles.dailypress.com/1989-12-13/news/8912130120_1_mr-elliott-nicholas-elliott-portable-classroom
Teen Gets Life In Prison In Shooting
Student Was `Time Bomb That Went Off': Judge
December 13, 1989|By SEAN SOMERVILLE Staff Writer

As the Bible students prayed, cowering from their gun-wielding schoolmate, the semi-automatic pistol in Nicholas Elliott's hand misfired.

But for that misfire, the toll might have been higher in the shooting spree in which the teen-ager killed one teacher and wounded another a year ago at Atlantic Shores Christian School.

"There's no question in my mind that I would be presiding over a mass murderer," said Circuit Judge Alan E. Rosenblatt, as he sentenced Elliott to life plus 114 years in prison Tuesday.

"Mr. Elliott was a time bomb that went off," the judge said. "According to the court's opinion, he's a time bomb that could go off again."

Before he was sentenced, Elliott, 17, said in a barely audible voice, "I'm sorry for what I did."

"I'm sure you are, Mr. Elliott," replied Rosenblatt. "But it's too little, too late."

Elliott, who pleaded guilty to 14 charges in October as part of a plea agreement in which five other charges were dropped, will become eligible for parole when he is 32 - in 15 years.

In court Tuesday, the subdued Elliott stood in contrast to the teen-ager who thrashed in the back seat of a detective's car after his arrest on the morning of Dec. 16, 1988.

On that day, Elliott, who is black, brought a Cobray M-11 semi-automatic pistol to school, apparently intending to kill Jacob Snipes, a white student with whom Elliott had exchanged racial slurs.

A teacher, 41-year-old Karen Farley, apparently tried to stop him. He killed her and left her body lying in a portable classroom.

Elliott entered a second portable classroom, pulled his gun from his bag and shot 37-year-old Sam Marino.

"Now you," Elliott said to Susan Allen, another teacher in the classroom. She ran out the door and eluded Elliott by zigzagging through the school's courtyard.

Elliott shot Marino again as Marino hung from a doorknob outside the mobile classroom, then broke into a crowded Bible class, where he confronted Snipes. "Jake, I'm going to kill you," he said.

More than 40 students cowered and prayed in the back of the classroom.

Elliott's gun jammed. Hutch Matteson, a Bible studies teacher, rushed him. The gun went off as he tackled Elliott.

Three Molotov cocktails were found in Elliott's locker. The makings of a pipe bomb were in his bookbag.

Elliott was sentenced to life for murdering Farley and 20 years for wounding Marino.

He was also sentenced to:

* 30 years for attempting to kill Allen, Matteson and Snipes.

* 14 years for using a firearm in committing the crimes.

Molotov cocktails and a pipe bomb. You ready to concede that this was an intended mass murder and Columbine-style attack?


Check your dates, dude. The Virginia Tech massacre took place two years after Van Jones claimed that only white suburban kids commit Columbine-style massacres. I expect a full retraction on that front.

Fine. At that time, the VA Tech shooting had not yet happened and it would have had no bearing on Jones' comment. However, Nicholas Elliott's shooting spree had occurred long before then and was easily searchable. In fact, given that, in addition to his gun and ammunition, he had prepared Molotov cocktails and a pipe bomb, it can be said that Columbine was an Elliott-style rampage, albeit a more successful one.

Van Jones made a false statement, publicly, and never bothered to check to see if it were true, because if he had, he'd have retracted it. You excoriated Beck for taking four months to correct an error. Jones has never backtracked from his statement, and it's unlikely that no one has ever gotten in his face about it. Care to judge him by the same standard that you apply to Beck?

So, Nightie, are you going to admit that Jones made a false statement and that this shooter planned a mass murder, or will you disappear again? :rolleyes:

Of course, since you did disappear, we know the answer to that question, don't we?

Can you give me the winning lottery numbers?

:rolleyes:
Dude, he won't even be able to answer the previous question.

ooh....mr TNO is back....:rolleyes:
Let's see how long it takes him to go running off this time.

The Night Owl
06-17-2011, 10:33 PM
Look, everyone! Nightie's back! That's good, because the last time I posted a question that you couldn't answer, you disappeared for almost three months! Here it is again, so that we can take up where you left off:


Hey! Nightie's back! I was beginning to think that you were never going to come back and admit that you were wrong about the whole Van Jones thing. Here's the last post on the subject, from that other thread:




You don't trust me? :rolleyes: Why is it that when Van Jones makes a sweeping statement about all white kids, you are prepared to contort yourself into various improbable shapes in order to deny that it is a racist sentiment, but when Glenn Beck makes a claim that Jones was a convicted felon, you assume nefarious motives?

And once again, you lie. There has been a great deal written about Elliott (over 90,000 hits on Google), although the most interesting thing is how often his race isn't mentioned in the articles. And after shooting two teachers, he continued to engage targets until he was tackled. From the Atlantic:


The Story of a Gun
By ERIK LARSON
On December 16, 1988, Nicholas Elliot, barely sixteen, walked into the Atlantic Shores Christian School, in Virginia Beach, Virginia, with a semi-automatic handgun hidden in his backpack. By midmorning a forty-one year-old teacher had been shot dead, and another teacher, struck by two nine-millimeter bullets, was extraordinarily lucky to be alive. Two other teachers narrowly escaped Nicholas Elliot's bullets.

If Jones didn't know about Elliott, then he is ignorant and makes sweeping statements about racial behaviors without knowledge of the facts. If I were to make the claim that no Jew ever committed a terrorist act, I'd Google it before I said something that could be proven false. Jones didn't know because he didn't want to know. In his mind, whites are violent, toxic racists. Any facts to the contrary would not have been of interest to him, just as they are not to you.


I am honest (far more than you), and I admit nothing of the sort. In fact, if you were honest, you'd admit that the presence of that much ammo demonstrates intent to shoot more than two people. Two hundred rounds of 9mm ammo weighs about 6-10 lbs, depending on how it's carried, but it's bulky and awkward, even if it's already in magazines. The cost for 200 rounds would be about $30-50 today, depending on type and manufacturer. So, you are claiming that a kid who planned to only shoot two people went to the trouble and expense to outfit himself with more than ten times as much ammo as his gun would hold in one clip, and then carry the extra weight and volume on his person with no intent to use it? Again, an honest man would admit that the kid clearly intended to do more than shoot two people, and that only the jamming of his gun prevented that (a fact that you have never mentioned once). Of course, an honest man would have admitted this long before now, so I know what I'm up against here.

Besides, it turns out that he had more than just ammunition:


http://articles.dailypress.com/1989-12-13/news/8912130120_1_mr-elliott-nicholas-elliott-portable-classroom
Teen Gets Life In Prison In Shooting
Student Was `Time Bomb That Went Off': Judge
December 13, 1989|By SEAN SOMERVILLE Staff Writer

As the Bible students prayed, cowering from their gun-wielding schoolmate, the semi-automatic pistol in Nicholas Elliott's hand misfired.

But for that misfire, the toll might have been higher in the shooting spree in which the teen-ager killed one teacher and wounded another a year ago at Atlantic Shores Christian School.

"There's no question in my mind that I would be presiding over a mass murderer," said Circuit Judge Alan E. Rosenblatt, as he sentenced Elliott to life plus 114 years in prison Tuesday.

"Mr. Elliott was a time bomb that went off," the judge said. "According to the court's opinion, he's a time bomb that could go off again."

Before he was sentenced, Elliott, 17, said in a barely audible voice, "I'm sorry for what I did."

"I'm sure you are, Mr. Elliott," replied Rosenblatt. "But it's too little, too late."

Elliott, who pleaded guilty to 14 charges in October as part of a plea agreement in which five other charges were dropped, will become eligible for parole when he is 32 - in 15 years.

In court Tuesday, the subdued Elliott stood in contrast to the teen-ager who thrashed in the back seat of a detective's car after his arrest on the morning of Dec. 16, 1988.

On that day, Elliott, who is black, brought a Cobray M-11 semi-automatic pistol to school, apparently intending to kill Jacob Snipes, a white student with whom Elliott had exchanged racial slurs.

A teacher, 41-year-old Karen Farley, apparently tried to stop him. He killed her and left her body lying in a portable classroom.

Elliott entered a second portable classroom, pulled his gun from his bag and shot 37-year-old Sam Marino.

"Now you," Elliott said to Susan Allen, another teacher in the classroom. She ran out the door and eluded Elliott by zigzagging through the school's courtyard.

Elliott shot Marino again as Marino hung from a doorknob outside the mobile classroom, then broke into a crowded Bible class, where he confronted Snipes. "Jake, I'm going to kill you," he said.

More than 40 students cowered and prayed in the back of the classroom.

Elliott's gun jammed. Hutch Matteson, a Bible studies teacher, rushed him. The gun went off as he tackled Elliott.

Three Molotov cocktails were found in Elliott's locker. The makings of a pipe bomb were in his bookbag.

Elliott was sentenced to life for murdering Farley and 20 years for wounding Marino.

He was also sentenced to:

* 30 years for attempting to kill Allen, Matteson and Snipes.

* 14 years for using a firearm in committing the crimes.

Molotov cocktails and a pipe bomb. You ready to concede that this was an intended mass murder and Columbine-style attack?



Fine. At that time, the VA Tech shooting had not yet happened and it would have had no bearing on Jones' comment. However, Nicholas Elliott's shooting spree had occurred long before then and was easily searchable. In fact, given that, in addition to his gun and ammunition, he had prepared Molotov cocktails and a pipe bomb, it can be said that Columbine was an Elliott-style rampage, albeit a more successful one.

Van Jones made a false statement, publicly, and never bothered to check to see if it were true, because if he had, he'd have retracted it. You excoriated Beck for taking four months to correct an error. Jones has never backtracked from his statement, and it's unlikely that no one has ever gotten in his face about it. Care to judge him by the same standard that you apply to Beck?

So, Nightie, are you going to admit that Jones made a false statement and that this shooter planned a mass murder, or will you disappear again? :rolleyes:

Of course, since you did disappear, we know the answer to that question, don't we?

Dude, he won't even be able to answer the previous question.

Let's see how long it takes him to go running off this time.

OMG! You're still droning on about Van Jones? My position has not changed. A shooting which results in one person dying is not a massacre. An attempted massacre maybe... but not a massacre.

Rockntractor
06-17-2011, 10:36 PM
OMG! You're still droning on about Van Jones? My position has not changed. A shooting which results in one person dying is not a massacre. An attempted massacre maybe... but not a massacre.

We waited all this time for that?:confused:

The Night Owl
06-17-2011, 10:50 PM
We waited all this time for that?:confused:

What were you waiting for? I stated my position on the Van Jones comment about school shootings months ago.

Rockntractor
06-17-2011, 10:54 PM
What were you waiting for? I stated my position on the Van Jones comment about school shootings months ago.

I was waiting for an intelligent response.

The Night Owl
06-17-2011, 11:26 PM
I was waiting for an intelligent response.

:rolleyes:

Rockntractor
06-17-2011, 11:33 PM
:rolleyes:

Hey, nobody else was.:confused:

txradioguy
06-18-2011, 02:18 AM
OMG! You're still droning on about Van Jones? My position has not changed. A shooting which results in one person dying is not a massacre. An attempted massacre maybe... but not a massacre.

Nope just waiting for you to slink back in and (hopefully) answer the question.

But given your history Foul Owl...it's not likely.

txradioguy
06-18-2011, 02:19 AM
What were you waiting for? I stated my position on the Van Jones comment about school shootings months ago.

And you were wrong.

Or did you hope we'd forget?

NJCardFan
06-18-2011, 03:47 PM
OMG! You're still droning on about Van Jones? My position has not changed. A shooting which results in one person dying is not a massacre. An attempted massacre maybe... but not a massacre.

And the difference is....(besides the loss of life)? Question: Is not intent the same as carrying it out? And if not, why did those idiots who plotted to attack Fort Dix given life?

Odysseus
06-18-2011, 04:15 PM
OMG! You're still droning on about Van Jones? My position has not changed. A shooting which results in one person dying is not a massacre. An attempted massacre maybe... but not a massacre.
So, if you make a deliberately false statement about Jones not being a racist, and we don't believe it, it's an attempted lie, but not a lie?

What were you waiting for? I stated my position on the Van Jones comment about school shootings months ago.

It's not so much that we were waiting. Since you disappear whenever you get cornered, I simply went back to the last time that I asked a question that you wouldn't answer, and copied and pasted it. It's not that hard. But, since you are claiming that you stated your position on Jones, allow me to point out that your arguments in support of that position have been demolished repeatedly. First, let's remember that this started because Glenn Beck outed Jones as a communist, a racist and a felon. Beck eventually corrected himself on the felon charge, but the other two accusations are what you disputed. You claimed that Van Jones wasn't a communist or a racist, despite his avowals of communism prior to being outed, his racist statements and his association with Abu Mumia Jamal, who is a convicted murderer of a cop and whose rap album, produced by Van Jones, contained racist lyrics. Instead of admitting the obvious, you tried to claim that Jones might have legitimate doubts about the guilt of Abu Mumia Jamal, who you also claimed was not a racist, despite his racist rants Here are the posts:

Does Van Jones believe Mumia Abu-Jamal is guilty? I doubt it. If Van Jones is of the mind that Abu-Jamal is innocent then I don't have a problem with their collaboration. I mean, I don't agree with this belief that Abu-Jamal is innocent (I think the guy is guilty as hell) but I can understand that there is a difference of opinion on the matter.

Then, when I refuted this, you decided that it was okay to give a convicted cop-killer the benefit of the doubt, or at least that it was okay for Jones to do so, claiming that Jones, despite the evidence, might have reason to believe in Jama's innocence.

Yes. Now, prove that Van Jones is still an avowed communist and that he believes Mumia Abu-Jamal is a cop killer.


This is just silly. One can accept that Mumia Abu-Jamal was convicted of murder without agreeing with the conviction.

Not really. The conviction of Mumia Abu-Jamal was based entirely on witness testimony and circumstantial evidence, which in my opinion were both strong but not beyond reasonable doubt.

After presenting a summary of the facts of the case and the prosecution's evidence, which went well beyond witness testimony (the bullets removed from Faulkner came from Jamal's gun, Jamal was wounded by Faulkner and the bullet from Jamal's wound was matched to Faulkner's weapon, etc.), you backpedaled again by claiming that Jamal was not a racist, and claiming that racist statements that he made in a rap that Jones produced were not racist, when anyone with half a brain could see otherwise.

You then tried to claim that Jones was correct in his assertion that only suburban white kids shoot up schools.

Your quote is slightly off. What Van Jones said: "You've never seen a Columbine done by a black child. Never. They always say, "We can't believe it happened here. We can't believe it was these suburban white kids." It's only them. Now, a black kid might shoot another black kid. He ain't going to shoot up the whole school."

Guess what? Jones is right. If one looks at the history of school shootings in the US, one quickly learns that no blacks have committed Columbine-style massacres.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_shooting#North_America

So, what is racist about what Jones said?
And, let's not forget that you have yet to explain why the statement by Mumia Abu-Jamal you cited is racist.

At this point, I brought up the case of Nicholas Elliot, which preceded Columbine. You then claimed that Elliot had no intention of shooting up the school, claiming that the 200 rounds of ammunition that he carried were for his planned escape. This was idiotic on its face, but then you dug yourself in deeper.


How do you know that Nicholas Elliott intended to commit mass murder? Are you psychic? For all we know, he may have brought extra ammunition with him thinking he was going to take it with him on the run after the shooting. Or maybe he didn't even think about it. Who knows?

Moreover, as I pointed out earlier, even a standard clip would have provided Elliott with enough ammunition to commit a Columbine-style massacre. So, if we define Columbine-style massacres as you would, by the amount of ammunition involved, most school shootings are Columbine-style massacres. It just doesn't make sense to look at it that way.

The fact is that Elliott killed 1 person and wounded another. That's not a Columbine-style massacre.

You repeatedly ignored the fact that the reason that Elliot stopped shooting is that he was tackled and disarmed before he could rack up more bodies, but even then, you refused to admit that Elliot had planned a mass-murder, until I brought up the article which cited the Molotov cocktails and pipebomb. So, the point is that Van Jones made a false, sweeping racist statement that only white kids commit mass shootings, and never corrected himself, even after the evidence to the contrary was made obvious. He also knowingly associated with a convicted cop-killer whose racist tirades are obvious to anyone who isn't deliberately trying to deceive himself (or us) as to the nature of the rants. He admitted to being a communist and did not recant his communism until after Beck outed him, making his recantation of convenience completely suspect. All of this because you either hate Glenn Back so much that you cannot admit that exposing Jones was a service to the nation, or because you are sympathetic to Jones' racist and extremist positions, and are carrying water for him. Either way, you are a liar, a fraud, and an utterly dishonorable human being.

The Night Owl
06-18-2011, 11:55 PM
And the difference is....(besides the loss of life)? Question: Is not intent the same as carrying it out? And if not, why did those idiots who plotted to attack Fort Dix given life?

You would have a point if Van Jones had claimed that no black child has ever planned a Columbine-style massacre but what he said is that no black child has ever committed a Columbine-style massacre.

Rockntractor
06-19-2011, 12:01 AM
You would have a point if Van Jones had claimed that no black child has ever planned a Columbine-style massacre but what he said is that no black child has ever committed a Columbine-style massacre.

You are nothing more than a race baiter.

djones520
06-19-2011, 12:06 AM
You would have a point if Van Jones had claimed that no black child has ever planned a Columbine-style massacre but what he said is that no black child has ever committed a Columbine-style massacre.

That's bullshit. He was saying only white people do it. He was attacking white people with it despite the fact that black kids have made the attempt, but were stopped before hand thankfully. His comment WAS racist, no matter how you try to spin it.

If you can't see that, then your time here may be coming to an end.

The Night Owl
06-19-2011, 12:07 AM
So, if you make a deliberately false statement about Jones not being a racist, and we don't believe it, it's an attempted lie, but not a lie?

I haven't seen evidence that Van Jones is a racist. That's just my opinion.


It's not so much that we were waiting. Since you disappear whenever you get cornered, I simply went back to the last time that I asked a question that you wouldn't answer, and copied and pasted it.

If you look me up at Democracy Forums, you'll find that my activity there dropped off around the same time my activity here dropped off.

Like I said, I post when I have the time to post and the desire to post. Now, I could post more but you'll have to pay me. Deal?

Rockntractor
06-19-2011, 12:13 AM
I haven't seen evidence that Van Jones is a racist. That's just my opinion.



If you look me up at Democracy Forums, you'll find that my activity there dropped off around the same time my activity here dropped off.

Like I said, I post when I have the time to post and the desire to post. Now, I could post more but you'll have to pay me. Deal?

Pay you to race bait?

The Night Owl
06-19-2011, 12:17 AM
That's bullshit. He was saying only white people do it. He was attacking white people with it despite the fact that black kids have made the attempt, but were stopped before hand thankfully. His comment WAS racist, no matter how you try to spin it.

What Van Jones claimed is that no black child has committed a Columbine-style school massacre. The fact that Nicholas Elliott may have intended to commit a Columbine-style massacre doesn't make Jones' statement less true.


If you can't see that, then your time here may be coming to an end.

No, I can't see your point at all. I think you're just flailing around in the dark at this point.

Odysseus
06-19-2011, 01:25 AM
You would have a point if Van Jones had claimed that no black child has ever planned a Columbine-style massacre but what he said is that no black child has ever committed a Columbine-style massacre.
No, his exact quote was "You've never seen a Columbine done by a black child. Never. They always say, "We can't believe it happened here. We can't believe it was these suburban white kids." It's only them. Now, a black kid might shoot another black kid. He ain't going to shoot up the whole school."

In other words, Jones wasn't simply claiming that no black kid had ever shot up a whole school (which, as I've demonstrated, is false), he was claiming that a black kid would not intend to shoot up a whole school. That's what "He ain't going to shoot up the whole school" means. In other words, he was stating that only white kids had that intent, when it's obvious, by your own admission, that Nicholas Elliot clearly had the intent to shoot up the whole school (or at least blow up major parts of it, but I suppose that now you will claim that his intent to use explosives differed from the intent to shoot :rolleyes:).

I haven't seen evidence that Van Jones is a racist. That's just my opinion.
No, you've seen lots of evidence. You've just raised the bar to the point where nothing he has said or done can possibly be proven to be racist to your satisfaction, or at least what you claim your standard of proof to be (a substantially higher standard than you apply to conservative pundits like Glenn Beck). Jones has accused whites of poisoning black communities. He has produced a record for a convicted cop-killer that included viciously racist lyrics. When presented with the quotes, you've attempted to parse them to the point of incomprehensibility in order to claim that they mean anything but what they obviously mean.


If you look me up at Democracy Forums, you'll find that my activity there dropped off around the same time my activity here dropped off.
Did they catch you in blatant lies there, too?


Like I said, I post when I have the time to post and the desire to post. Now, I could post more but you'll have to pay me. Deal?
Payment implies an exchange of value. Nothing that you have written here is worth anything to anyone.

What Van Jones claimed is that no black child has committed a Columbine-style school massacre. The fact that Nicholas Elliot may have intended to commit a Columbine-style massacre doesn't make Jones' statement less true.
Wrong!!! As pointed out above, he specifically stated that no black child was not "going to shoot up the school." Now, he also claimed that no black child had "done" a Columbine, i.e., that there was never a mass-murder by a black child, but that also implied that this was because black children lacked the intent. In other words, he made a false statement, based on race, that supported his biased claim that white suburban kids were violent.

NJCardFan
06-19-2011, 01:51 AM
What Van Jones claimed is that no black child has committed a Columbine-style school massacre. The fact that Nicholas Elliot may have intended to commit a Columbine-style massacre doesn't make Jones' statement less true.





se·man·tics/səˈmantiks/Noun
1. The branch of linguistics and logic concerned with meaning.
2. The meaning of a word, phrase, sentence, or text: "such quibbling over semantics may seem petty stuff"

In short, the level of idiocy you are displaying here is reaching depths so low that not even whale shit could reach it.

The Night Owl
06-19-2011, 11:33 AM
No, his exact quote was "You've never seen a Columbine done by a black child. Never. They always say, "We can't believe it happened here. We can't believe it was these suburban white kids." It's only them. Now, a black kid might shoot another black kid. He ain't going to shoot up the whole school."

In other words, Jones wasn't simply claiming that no black kid had ever shot up a whole school (which, as I've demonstrated, is false), he was claiming that a black kid would not intend to shoot up a whole school. That's what "He ain't going to shoot up the whole school" means.

I think Van Jones was speaking very generally when he said that a black kid "ain't going to shoot up the whole school." And he was right. There is no history of black kids committing Columbine-style massacres... at least not in the US.


In other words, he was stating that only white kids had that intent, when it's obvious, by your own admission, that Nicholas Elliot clearly had the intent to shoot up the whole school (or at least blow up major parts of it, but I suppose that now you will claim that his intent to use explosives differed from the intent to shoot :rolleyes:).

I did not admit that Nicholas Elliott clearly had the intent to shoot up the whole school. What I wrote is that Elliott may have intended to shoot up the whole school. We cannot know the scope of his intent based on the amount of ammunition he carried. We are talking about a 16 year old kid here. In his immature mind, he may have believed he was going to kill a few people and then live life on the lam.

fettpett
06-19-2011, 11:49 AM
I think Van Jones was speaking very generally when he said that a black kid "ain't going to shoot up the whole school." And he was right. There is no history of black kids committing Columbine-style massacres... at least not in the US.


well no shit, there haven't been many since then either, they have been either pranks or college students. But how do you explain away the 2 incidents in Chicago this week when a group of black teenagers robbed and beat up a couple kids? or the roving gangs through out the major cities that are mostly black and Hispanic? You are nitpicking ONE incident

Odysseus
06-19-2011, 11:59 AM
I think Van Jones was speaking very generally when he said that a black kid "ain't going to shoot up the whole school." And he was right. There is no history of black kids committing Columbine-style massacres... at least not in the US.
No, he was obviously wrong. Elliot clearly intended a mass-casualty event. And Elliot predated Columbine, so the history was there.


I did not admit that Nicholas Elliot clearly had the intent to shoot up the whole school. What I wrote is that Elliot may have intended to shoot up the whole school. We can't know the scope of his intent based on the amount of ammunition he carried. We're talking about a 16 year old kid here. In his immature mind, he may have believed he was going to kill a few people and then live life on the lam.

From the cache of explosives and incendiary devices found in his locker, he clearly intended to blow up and burn the school. You are ignoring this documented and clear evidence in order to fabricate a state of mind which he did not demonstrate. You are either a liar or an idiot, if this is your argument.

Zathras
06-19-2011, 01:03 PM
You are either a liar or an idiot, if this is your argument.

In the case of the idiot TNO I'd have to go with both an idiot and a liar.

NJCardFan
06-19-2011, 02:11 PM
I did not admit that Nicholas Elliott clearly had the intent to shoot up the whole school. What I wrote is that Elliott may have intended to shoot up the whole school. We cannot know the scope of his intent based on the amount of ammunition he carried. We are talking about a 16 year old kid here. In his immature mind, he may have believed he was going to kill a few people and then live life on the lam.

Uh huh. And McVeigh and Nicholes originally intended to simply fertilize their lawn. :rolleyes: