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bijou
07-22-2011, 10:00 AM
http://pub.tv2.no/multimedia/TV2/archive/00895/Regjeringsbygg_895981i.jpg

An explosion in Oslo has blown out most of the windows of a 17-storey government building which contains the Prime Minister's office, according to the Reuters news agency.

A witness reported that as many as eight people had been hurt.

Nearby offices in the Norwegian capital are being evacuated.

link (http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/World-News/Explosion-At-Oslo-Government-Building-Containing-Prime-Ministers-Office-According-To-Reuters/Article/201107416035628?lpos=World_News_First_Home_Article _Teaser_Region_0&lid=ARTICLE_16035628_Explosion_At_Oslo_Government_ Building_Containing_Prime_Ministers_Office%2C_Acco rding_To_Reuters)

namvet
07-22-2011, 10:36 AM
Jihad is alive and well ???

bijou
07-22-2011, 10:54 AM
Jihad is alive and well ???

Not confirmed yet but Michelle Malkin had an interesting snippet


michellemalkin Michelle Malkin
Sh! Mullah Krekar of Ansar al-Islam threatened to kill Oslo officials, faced deportation http://is.gd/zPMX4T @SAISHopkins
24 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply

namvet
07-22-2011, 11:00 AM
you don't threaten ragheads without paying the cost. just another case of revolving immigration policies

Odysseus
07-22-2011, 11:01 AM
From the last part of the article:


Police and fire officials have declined to comment on the cause of the explosion.
The wreckage of a car was seen outside one building and there was early speculation that the damage was consistent with that from a car bomb.
One radio journalist reported from the scene.
"I see that some windows of the government headquarters have been broken.
"Some people covered with blood are lying in the street."
Norway has experienced problems with several homegrown terror plots linked to al Qaeda.
Last week, a Norwegian prosecutor filed terror charges against an Iraqi-born cleric for threatening Norwegian politicians with death if he was deported.

Nothing to see here. No Islamic terrorism. Move along.... :rolleyes::nono:

namvet
07-22-2011, 11:05 AM
From the last part of the article:


Police and fire officials have declined to comment on the cause of the explosion.
The wreckage of a car was seen outside one building and there was early speculation that the damage was consistent with that from a car bomb.
One radio journalist reported from the scene.
"I see that some windows of the government headquarters have been broken.
"Some people covered with blood are lying in the street."
Norway has experienced problems with several homegrown terror plots linked to al Qaeda.
Last week, a Norwegian prosecutor filed terror charges against an Iraqi-born cleric for threatening Norwegian politicians with death if he was deported.

Nothing to see here. No Islamic terrorism. Move along.... :rolleyes::nono:

who influence's home growns??? your dismissed

Rockntractor
07-22-2011, 11:14 AM
Nothing to see here. No Islamic terrorism. Move along.... :rolleyes::nono:

La la la la la la lala la la la la lala la la la la la! Passing through passing through.:confused:

linda22003
07-22-2011, 11:35 AM
One death reported so far. :(

namvet
07-22-2011, 11:43 AM
violent muslims. im shocked i tell ya

megimoo
07-22-2011, 11:45 AM
From the last part of the article:


Police and fire officials have declined to comment on the cause of the explosion.
The wreckage of a car was seen outside one building and there was early speculation that the damage was consistent with that from a car bomb.
One radio journalist reported from the scene.
"I see that some windows of the government headquarters have been broken.
"Some people covered with blood are lying in the street."
Norway has experienced problems with several homegrown terror plots linked to al Qaeda.
Last week, a Norwegian prosecutor filed terror charges against an Iraqi-born cleric for threatening Norwegian politicians with death if he was deported.

Nothing to see here. No Islamic terrorism. Move along.... :rolleyes::nono:
It Looks something the Murrah Building in Oklahoma City .It took a huge amount of explosive power to do that much damage.

the director
07-22-2011, 11:51 AM
This is obviously due to Norway's aggressive foreign policy and capitalism.

namvet
07-22-2011, 11:52 AM
It Looks something the Murrah Building in Oklahoma City .It took a huge amount of explosive power to do that much damage.

that was far worse

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/cb/Oklahomacitybombing-DF-ST-98-01356.jpg/408px-Oklahomacitybombing-DF-ST-98-01356.jpg

I saw it before they tore it down.

SarasotaRepub
07-22-2011, 12:17 PM
This blast was obviously caused by fireworks connected to Bu$h. :rolleyes:

bijou
07-22-2011, 12:33 PM
Early reports that there has been an attack on a youth summer camp


Norwegian police have said that an explosion in Oslo this afternoon was caused by a bomb, and has led to "deaths and injuries" - while there are reports that shots have been fired at a nearby children's camp.

Police said there were "one or more powerful explosions in the government building in Oslo".

There are reports that some shots were fired at a youth meeting near Oslo.

As many as 700 people were believed to be taking part in the summer camp. link (http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/World-News/Bomb-Explosion-In-Norwegian-Capital-Oslo---Police-Report-Deaths-And-Injuries---Shots-At-Kids-Camp/Article/201107416035628?lpos=World_News_Top_Stories_Header _0&lid=ARTICLE_16035628_Bomb_Explosion_In_Norwegian_C apital_Oslo_-_Police_Report_Deaths_And_Injuries_-_Shots_At_Kids_Camp)

megimoo
07-22-2011, 12:41 PM
that was far worse

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/cb/Oklahomacitybombing-DF-ST-98-01356.jpg/408px-Oklahomacitybombing-DF-ST-98-01356.jpg

I saw it before they tore it down.
Something like ..is what I said...This Norway bombing was perhaps due to a car load of high explosives...

The Oklahoma City explosives were in a large tank truck and were a much greater volume of diesel fuel and nitrates (AN/FO) therefor the blast radias was much greater .... .

namvet
07-22-2011, 01:05 PM
Something like ..is what I said...This Norway bombing was perhaps due to a car load of high explosives...

The Oklahoma City explosives were in a large tank truck and were a much greater volume of diesel fuel and nitrates (AN/FO) therefor the blast radias was much greater .... .

I know. I saw it. it was a jaw dropper. incredible damage from just 1 van. ill never forget it. all those children

bijou
07-22-2011, 01:12 PM
From twitter


igeldard Ian Geldard
by PlatoSays
#Norway attacks said to be claimed by Helpers of the Global Jihad (Ansar al-Jihad al-Alami)
10 minutes ago

Arroyo_Doble
07-22-2011, 01:16 PM
Norway has been involved in the Libya campaign.

namvet
07-22-2011, 01:40 PM
Norway has been involved in the Libya campaign.

kadaffy duck involved ???

Arroyo_Doble
07-22-2011, 01:44 PM
kadaffy duck involved ???

He has used terrorism in the past against his perceived or real enemy.

It would be a pretty big risk on his part, though, since Norway is NATO and what would happen after that body invoked Article V would make the conflict in Libya now look like a training exercise.

Novaheart
07-22-2011, 01:50 PM
From the last part of the article:

[INDENT]Police and fire officials have declined to comment on the cause of the explosion.
The wreckage of a car was seen outside one building and there was early speculation that the damage was consistent with that from a car bomb.
One radio journalist reported from the scene.
"I see that some windows of the government headquarters have been broken.
"Some people covered with blood are lying in the street."
.........snip........

Nothing to see here. No Islamic terrorism. Move along.... :rolleyes::nono:

bolded - lol!

djones520
07-22-2011, 01:50 PM
He has used terrorism in the past against his perceived or real enemy.

It would be a pretty big risk on his part, though, since Norway is NATO and what would happen after that body invoked Article V would make the conflict in Libya now look like a training exercise.

He may not be directly involved, but it certainly adds an extra "excuse" to the perps.

fettpett
07-22-2011, 01:51 PM
African Embassy's , USS Cole, 9/11, 7/7, Spainsh attacks, and now this 7/22/11


and people say Islam is a "peaceful" religion :rolleyes:

the director
07-22-2011, 02:11 PM
African Embassy's , USS Cole, 9/11, 7/7, Spainsh attacks, and now this 7/22/11


and people say Islam is a "peaceful" religion :rolleyes:

And Christians had the Spanish Inquisition, Crusades, and Salem Witch Trials. Look at the WBC. Every major religion goes through "dark ages", which has less to do with the religion itself and more to do with the mentality of its followers. Like the Bible, there are passages in the Quran that are a call to arms or a call to peace - it just depends on who is interpreting it and who has the loudest voice.

Islam has been responsible for many scientific achievements, and was going through a golden age while Europe was in the dark ages - and were amazingly tolerant of Jews and Christians. The recent waves of terrorism over the past few decades are due to extremists having success in recruiting disenfranchised educated youth living under oppressive Muslim regimes, not because Islam is a religion of violence.

Yet another reason why I support secular government.

bijou
07-22-2011, 02:30 PM
At least five people were injured Friday when a man disguised as a police officer opened fire at a camp organized by the Norwegian Labour party youth organization on the island of Utoya south of Oslo, Norwegian media reports say.

It isn't established if the incident is related to the explosion in central Oslo, which killed at least two people and left many other injured.

According to NRK, 560 people are attending the camp at Utoya. http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20110722-709963.html

Latest tv reports are now of many (perhaps 30) dead at the scene.

fettpett
07-22-2011, 02:56 PM
And Christians had the Spanish Inquisition, Crusades, and Salem Witch Trials. Look at the WBC. Every major religion goes through "dark ages", which has less to do with the religion itself and more to do with the mentality of its followers. Like the Bible, there are passages in the Quran that are a call to arms or a call to peace - it just depends on who is interpreting it and who has the loudest voice.

Islam has been responsible for many scientific achievements, and was going through a golden age while Europe was in the dark ages - and were amazingly tolerant of Jews and Christians. The recent waves of terrorism over the past few decades are due to extremists having success in recruiting disenfranchised educated youth living under oppressive Muslim regimes, not because Islam is a religion of violence.

Yet another reason why I support secular government.

see there is a basic underlying difference between Islam and Christianity, Christianity does NOT have the fundmental killing of infidels as one of it's tenants where Islam does.

The Inquisition, Crusades, and Salem Witch Trials were all products of Governments wanting to keep a hold of power, and were done in the name of religion, NOT because the religion called for it. The Quran is fundamentally different from the Bible.


I support secular government too, but my point had nothing to do with that

rjas77
07-22-2011, 03:28 PM
And Christians had the Spanish Inquisition, Crusades, and Salem Witch Trials. Look at the WBC. Every major religion goes through "dark ages", which has less to do with the religion itself and more to do with the mentality of its followers. Like the Bible, there are passages in the Quran that are a call to arms or a call to peace - it just depends on who is interpreting it and who has the loudest voice.

Islam has been responsible for many scientific achievements, and was going through a golden age while Europe was in the dark ages - and were amazingly tolerant of Jews and Christians. The recent waves of terrorism over the past few decades are due to extremists having success in recruiting disenfranchised educated youth living under oppressive Muslim regimes, not because Islam is a religion of violence.

Yet another reason why I support secular government.

Got anything THIS century?

the director
07-22-2011, 03:35 PM
see there is a basic underlying difference between Islam and Christianity, Christianity does NOT have the fundmental killing of infidels as one of it's tenants where Islam does.

The Inquisition, Crusades, and Salem Witch Trials were all products of Governments wanting to keep a hold of power, and were done in the name of religion, NOT because the religion called for it. The Quran is fundamentally different from the Bible.


I support secular government too, but my point had nothing to do with that

The Robert Spencer (jihad watch) version of Islam seems to be really popular among conservatives, which is unfortunate because Spencer is a sensationalist blowhard who can't see past his own nose. I had the displeasure of sitting through a week-long class taught by a couple of his disciples, and while they know their stuff, they are nothing more than Michael Moores.

If by "fundamental killing of infidels" you are referring to the unofficial sixith pillar of Islam - Jihad - you should know that Jihad means "struggle". Not holy war, not suicide bombings, not blow up Olso, but struggle. The Quran places much more emphasis on the internal Jihad, or the fight against temptation. This is another interpretation of a Christian tenant - that we are constantly being tempted and we have to rely on God to help us fight them. Jihad is a means for Muslims to be better Muslims - it is like a computer diagnostic check - they use Jihad to figure out where they are failing to be good people and good Muslims and then take steps to rectify the situation.

External Jihad is given much less emphasis, and what little is talked about (which is mostly from outside the Quran in supporting documentation, but I digress..) indicates it is nothing more than defending the homeland. Basically, if a foreign invader takes over, it is the Muslim's responsibility to fight against the invader. A draft, if you will. Again, not suicide bombings or flying planes into buildings or blowing up Oslo, but to respond very much in the same way Americans would if the Chinese were to conduct a modern Red Dawn incursion. A "stay off my lawn" mentality.

The Quran prohibits suicide. The Quran encourages Muslims to respect all human life. The Quran tells Muslims that the best way to convert others is to be the best Muslim possible and to lead an honorable life, and those who are not Muslims will be envious and convert.

Robert Spencer makes the fundamental flaw of studying the Quran from the extremist point of view and then assuming every Muslim thinks that way. He ignores volumes of Muslim clerics denouncing Islamic fundamentalism, denouncing suicide attacks, and calling on Muslims to be peaceful.

As far as Christian extremism - bombing abortion clinics and murdering abortion doctors doesn't scream "governments trying to keep control" to me.

NJCardFan
07-22-2011, 03:38 PM
And Christians had the Spanish Inquisition(nearly 600 years ago), Crusades(nearly 1,000 years ago), and Salem Witch Trials(nearly 400 years ago). Look at the WBC. Every major religion goes through "dark ages", which has less to do with the religion itself and more to do with the mentality of its followers. Like the Bible, there are passages in the Quran that are a call to arms or a call to peace - it just depends on who is interpreting it and who has the loudest voice.

Islam has been responsible for many scientific achievements, and was going through a golden age while Europe was in the dark ages - and were amazingly tolerant of Jews and Christians. The recent waves of terrorism over the past few decades are due to extremists having success in recruiting disenfranchised educated youth living under oppressive Muslim regimes, not because Islam is a religion of violence.

Yet another reason why I support secular government.
What have Christians done in, I dunno, let's narrow this down to at least 200 years?

the director
07-22-2011, 03:39 PM
Got anything THIS century?

As I said, each religion undergoes its dark ages - Christianity currently isn't in a dark age but it still struggles with its own crop of modern day extremists, albeit to a much lesser extent than what Islam is struggling with today.

Nubs
07-22-2011, 03:47 PM
As I said, each religion undergoes its dark ages - Christianity currently isn't in a dark age but it still struggles with its own crop of modern day extremists, albeit to a much lesser extent than what Islam is struggling with today.

You, Sir, are full of shit.

Nubs
07-22-2011, 04:03 PM
As I said, each religion undergoes its dark ages - Christianity currently isn't in a dark age but it still struggles with its own crop of modern day extremists, albeit to a much lesser extent than what Islam is struggling with today.

You, Sir, are full of shit.

linda22003
07-22-2011, 04:05 PM
You, Sir, are full of shit.

So much easier than saying "I disagree with you and here are the reasons why."

Arroyo_Doble
07-22-2011, 04:08 PM
So much easier than saying "I disagree with you and here are the reasons why."

You, madame, are full of shit.



Hey! You're right!

linda22003
07-22-2011, 04:11 PM
You, madame, are full of shit.



Hey! You're right!

I know! It's so easy! :p

the director
07-22-2011, 04:15 PM
You, Sir, are full of shit.

WBC, abortion clinic bombings, priests molesting children, Christian activism in government, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_terrorism. Want me to go on?

The funny thing is I view myself as a devout Christian.


What have Christians done in, I dunno, let's narrow this down to at least 200 years?

Reading comprehension ftl. I said Christianity went through their dark ages a long time ago. Islam is going through it now. What I am saying is that Christianity struggled just like Islam is.

Break it down further fer ya:

Christianity is about 2k years old. Islam is about 1400 years old. Where was Christianity 600 years ago? 1400s, right around the time of the Spanish Inquisition. The only difference is that instead of having access to explosives and rifles, Christians "only" had access to swords and spears.

lacarnut
07-22-2011, 04:27 PM
You, Sir, are full of shit.

+1

Arroyo_Doble
07-22-2011, 04:27 PM
I know! It's so easy! :p

+1

Hawkgirl
07-22-2011, 05:49 PM
And Christians had the Spanish Inquisition, Crusades, and Salem Witch Trials. Look at the WBC. Every major religion goes through "dark ages", which has less to do with the religion itself and more to do with the mentality of its followers. Like the Bible, there are passages in the Quran that are a call to arms or a call to peace - it just depends on who is interpreting it and who has the loudest voice.

Islam has been responsible for many scientific achievements, and was going through a golden age while Europe was in the dark ages - and were amazingly tolerant of Jews and Christians. The recent waves of terrorism over the past few decades are due to extremists having success in recruiting disenfranchised educated youth living under oppressive Muslim regimes, not because Islam is a religion of violence.

Yet another reason why I support secular government.


Oh snap, someone crapped in a thread again. You won't find many Religion of Peace supporters here, libtard.

JB
07-22-2011, 06:01 PM
And Christians had the Spanish Inquisition... <snip>Moral equivalence. It's whats for breakfast. :rolleyes:

the director
07-22-2011, 06:05 PM
Oh snap, someone crapped in a thread again. You won't find many Religion of Peace supporters here, libtard.

I'm confused because nowhere did I say that Islam is a religion of peace, and stated multiple times they are struggling with extremism and violence in its current state.

A moderate Muslim is no more complicit in a terrorist attack than you are in an abortion bombing.

So....are you here cause you wanted to call me a libtard? ... or are you unable to push some energy across a few neurons to form a coherent argument?

NJCardFan
07-22-2011, 06:37 PM
WBC, abortion clinic bombings, priests molesting children, Christian activism in government, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_terrorism. Want me to go on?

The funny thing is I view myself as a devout Christian.
Um, all that you mention are actions by individuals, not a coordinated effort. WBC does not speak for the Baptist church let alone all of Christianity. However, what they do can hardly be construed as terrorism. Abortion clinic bombings are/were carried out by individuals and I've never heard it reported that anyone doing the bombings yelled "God is great" when carrying this out. Now, you can cite all the acts of Christian terrorism all you want but I'd be willing to bet that there has been more Islamic terrorism in the last 10 years than there has been Christian terrorism in the last 200. Maybe even 300 years or more. Also, name me one act of Christian terrorism that was anywhere near the scale of any act of Islamic terrorism? You won't find anything close and don't even try OKC because that was politically and not religiously motivated.

Hawkgirl
07-22-2011, 06:42 PM
I'm confused because nowhere did I say that Islam is a religion of peace, and stated multiple times they are struggling with extremism and violence in its current state.

A moderate Muslim is no more complicit in a terrorist attack than you are in an abortion bombing.

So....are you here cause you wanted to call me a libtard? ... or are you unable to push some energy across a few neurons to form a coherent argument?


I'm not wasting my time with you or those of your ilk anymore...It's been repeated here many times. You're not the first poster to defend Islam, and you won't be the last.

there, I've wasted enough neurons already.

NJCardFan
07-22-2011, 06:42 PM
I'm confused because nowhere did I say that Islam is a religion of peace, and stated multiple times they are struggling with extremism and violence in its current state.

A moderate Muslim is no more complicit in a terrorist attack than you are in an abortion bombing.

So....are you here cause you wanted to call me a libtard? ... or are you unable to push some energy across a few neurons to form a coherent argument?

You know, for a n00b, you have a big mouth. If you want to stay here, I suggest you check yourself.

Hawkgirl
07-22-2011, 06:43 PM
You know, for a n00b, you have a big mouth. If you want to stay here, I suggest you check yourself.


he's self rightous

fettpett
07-22-2011, 06:46 PM
You won't find anything close and don't even try OKC because that was politically and not religiously motivated.

and even that had ties to Islamic terrorist as many eyewitnesses have claimed there were two Iraqi's involved with McVeigh

Rockntractor
07-22-2011, 07:21 PM
You know, for a n00b, you have a big mouth. If you want to stay here, I suggest you check yourself.

Who are you to tell him who stays?

SarasotaRepub
07-22-2011, 07:34 PM
You know, for a n00b, you have a big mouth. If you want to stay here, I suggest you check yourself.

Take it easy folks, no need to get nasty with the noobs.

We all have opinions...;)

Wei Wu Wei
07-22-2011, 07:41 PM
Reports are coming in that the gunman at the youth camp was a right-wing extremist.

Rockntractor
07-22-2011, 07:44 PM
Reports are coming in that the gunman at the youth camp was a right-wing extremist.

Sure he was Weible, Oly Okbar Mohhamed.:rolleyes:

fettpett
07-22-2011, 07:45 PM
Reports are coming in that the gunman at the youth camp was a right-wing extremist.

just like the stupid kid in Arizonia right :rolleyes::bullshit::bullshit:

Wei Wu Wei
07-22-2011, 07:48 PM
It looks like details are still shady on the bombing. Info is coming in fast, it's best to not jump to conclusions.

SarasotaRepub
07-22-2011, 07:49 PM
More facts will come out on this one I'm sure...




A police official said the 32-year-old ethnic Norwegian suspect arrested at the camp on Utoya island appears to have acted alone in both attacks, and that "it seems like that this is not linked to any international terrorist organizations at all." The official spoke on condition of anonymity because that information had not been officially released by Norway's police.

"It seems it's not Islamic-terror related," the official said. "This seems like a madman's work."

The official said the attack "is probably more Norway's Oklahoma City than it is Norway's World Trade Center." Domestic terrorists carried out the 1995 attack on a federal building in Oklahoma City, while foreign terrorists were responsible for the Sept. 11, 2001 attacks.


The official added, however, "it's still just hours since the incident happened. And the investigation is going on with all available resources."


Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/07/22/explosion-damages-buildings-in-norwegian-capital/#ixzz1SsgXjpTZ

lacarnut
07-22-2011, 07:53 PM
Reports are coming in that the gunman at the youth camp was a LEFT -wing extremist.

FIXED:stfu1:

Odysseus
07-22-2011, 07:55 PM
Norway has been involved in the Libya campaign.
Well, that excuses everything. :rolleyes:

And Christians had the Spanish Inquisition, Crusades, and Salem Witch Trials. Look at the WBC. Every major religion goes through "dark ages", which has less to do with the religion itself and more to do with the mentality of its followers. Like the Bible, there are passages in the Quran that are a call to arms or a call to peace - it just depends on who is interpreting it and who has the loudest voice.
There are a number of studies that compare the levels of violence (and more importantly, exhortations to violence) in the Islamic trilogy (The Qur'an, Sunnah and Hadiths) and the Old and New Testaments. Islam is far more violent, and far more prone to violence, due to the violent proclivities of Mohammed, who founded a religion based on conquest through force of arms. In addition, the doctrine of Abrogation, in which later verses "abrogate" or invalidate prior passages, means that many of the more peaceful passages from the Meccan period are abrogated by much more violent passages in the Medina period. Finally, the Sunnah and Hadiths, which are just as critical to Islam as the Qur'an, include numerous examples of Mohammed lying, cheating and killing to advance Islam (and therefore, himself), and since Mohammed is the example of the spiritually"perfect" Muslim, these are critical texts. The end result is that a devout Muslim is urged to kill or enslave unbelievers and destroy all other cultures, while nothing in the Old or New Testaments demands similar imperialistic designs on the rest of humanity.


Islam has been responsible for many scientific achievements, and was going through a golden age while Europe was in the dark ages - and were amazingly tolerant of Jews and Christians. The recent waves of terrorism over the past few decades are due to extremists having success in recruiting disenfranchised educated youth living under oppressive Muslim regimes, not because Islam is a religion of violence.
This is a widely disseminated myth. In fact, those Muslim rulers who were tolerant were considered apostates by the vast majority of the Ummah, and the scientific advances in Islam were mostly the result of Islamic encroachment on other, more advanced regions. After the publication of the Incoherence of the Philosophers by al-Ghazali, and the rise of the Asharite school of Islamic philosophy, scientific achievement came to a screeching halt. The treatment of non-Muslims varied, but doctrinally, Islam demands that Jews and Christians be subjected to specific humiliations and acts of subjugation in order to demonstrate their submission to Islam. Non-Muslims are not accorded dhimmi status, and can be slaughtered with impunity. The history of the Islamic conquest of India, in which tens of millions of Hindus, Sikhs and Buddhists were butchered after surrender, and their families enslaved, is a series of atrocities on a scale not equaled until the Nazis combined the doctrines of Islamic subjugation with modern industrial techniques.


Yet another reason why I support secular government.

Secular governments have an appalling record. The various communist governments have upwards of 100 million deaths on their hands.

Wei Wu Wei
07-22-2011, 07:55 PM
Here's a liveblog updating as new info comes in:

http://blogs.aljazeera.net/liveblog/Norway

the director
07-22-2011, 08:00 PM
Hoh boy here we go...


Um, all that you mention are actions by individuals, not a coordinated effort. WBC does not speak for the Baptist church let alone all of Christianity. However, what they do can hardly be construed as terrorism. Abortion clinic bombings are/were carried out by individuals and I've never heard it reported that anyone doing the bombings yelled "God is great" when carrying this out. Now, you can cite all the acts of Christian terrorism all you want but I'd be willing to bet that there has been more Islamic terrorism in the last 10 years than there has been Christian terrorism in the last 200. Maybe even 300 years or more. Also, name me one act of Christian terrorism that was anywhere near the scale of any act of Islamic terrorism? You won't find anything close and don't even try OKC because that was politically and not religiously motivated.

Using your logic, the guy who kills five people is okay as long as he is standing next to some one who has killed 100. Unbelievable.


I'm not wasting my time with you or those of your ilk anymore...It's been repeated here many times. You're not the first poster to defend Islam, and you won't be the last.

there, I've wasted enough neurons already.

Did quick search of the forums (hawkgirl and islam) and the TD;DR of your posts is "all Mooslims are evil." This kind of mind-boggling close-minded mentality is what kills me about the modern conservative party. It is as if you are saying "I believe in the freedom of religion as long as that religion is Christianity."

It is easy to defend freedom of speech and religion when it is your speech and religion you are attempting to exercise. It takes a special kind of person to defend freedom of speech and religion for those you don't agree with.


You know, for a n00b, you have a big mouth. If you want to stay here, I suggest you check yourself.

Cognative dissonance is an ugly thing. It is about to get uglier, As the attacker reportedly had ties to right wing extremists. (http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/07/22/us-norway-gunman-idUSTRE76L6LZ20110722) Oh.


he's self rightous

Not really. In another thread I posted what I thought about illegal immigration and asked for conservative talking points as to why I was wrong. A poster obliged and made several good points. I reconsidered my position and thanked him. I might be cocky, I might be egotisitcal, and I might think I am right - but present me with a good argument and I will consider it whole heartedly.

Maybe this "mooslim" stuff keeps coming up on this site because conservatives can't figure out how to defend their position without relying on fear mongering and appeals to emotion.

And THAT is how your waste some neurons.

Rockntractor
07-22-2011, 08:02 PM
Hoh boy here we go...



Using your logic, the guy who kills five people is okay as long as he is standing next to some one who has killed 100. Unbelievable.



Did quick search of the forums (hawkgirl and islam) and the TD;DR of your posts is "all Mooslims are evil." This kind of mind-boggling close-minded mentality is what kills me about the modern conservative party. It is as if you are saying "I believe in the freedom of religion as long as that religion is Christianity."

It is easy to defend freedom of speech and religion when it is your speech and religion you are attempting to exercise. It takes a special kind of person to defend freedom of speech and religion for those you don't agree with.



Cognative dissonance is an ugly thing. It is about to get uglier, As the attacker reportedly had ties to right wing extremists. (http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/07/22/us-norway-gunman-idUSTRE76L6LZ20110722) Oh.



Not really. In another thread I posted what I thought about illegal immigration and asked for conservative talking points as to why I was wrong. A poster obliged and made several good points. I reconsidered my position and thanked him. I might be cocky, I might be egotisitcal, and I might think I am right - but present me with a good argument and I will consider it whole heartedly.

Maybe this "mooslim" stuff keeps coming up on this site because conservatives can't figure out how to defend their position without relying on fear mongering and appeals to emotion.

And THAT is how your waste some neurons.
You seem to have answered all but Odysseus.:confused:

lacarnut
07-22-2011, 08:04 PM
Here's a liveblog updating as new info comes in:

http://blogs.aljazeera.net/liveblog/Norway

They do not know what his nationality is but it could have, should have, would have been a right wing extremist. You are a legend in your own mind.:vomit:

Hawkgirl
07-22-2011, 08:06 PM
Hoh boy here we go...


Did quick search of the forums (hawkgirl and islam) and the TD;DR of your posts is "all Mooslims are evil." This kind of mind-boggling close-minded mentality is what kills me about the modern conservative party. It is as if you are saying "I believe in the freedom of religion as long as that religion is Christianity."




Nah, I like Jews and Hindu's are okay too.:D I worked with an Eqyptian many years ago...he was not an extremist in any sense of the word....but boy did he hate Jews and Americans....this was way before 9/11...it was right around the liberation of Kuwait...the muslims I worked with up in arms about the "american occupation" in Kuwait.
You see, the BEST muslims, are those that don't read the Koran, or believe in it's teachings. But isn't Islam about the Koran's teachings.
Do I need to start quoting the KORAN??? The best muslims are the ones that don't practice it.

ALL the PC bullshit in the world doesn't change that fact.

Wei Wu Wei
07-22-2011, 08:07 PM
They do not know what his nationality is but

From the link you just quoted:


The man arrested in connection with the Oslo bombing and the shooting at a youth camp has been named as Anders Behring Breivik, a 32 year old Norwegian citizen.

He is Norwegian

Odysseus
07-22-2011, 08:15 PM
Here's a liveblog updating as new info comes in:

http://blogs.aljazeera.net/liveblog/Norway
Al Jazeera? Seriously?


Not really. In another thread I posted what I thought about illegal immigration and asked for conservative talking points as to why I was wrong. A poster obliged and made several good points. I reconsidered my position and thanked him. I might be cocky, I might be egotisitcal, and I might think I am right - but present me with a good argument and I will consider it whole heartedly.

Maybe this "mooslim" stuff keeps coming up on this site because conservatives can't figure out how to defend their position without relying on fear mongering and appeals to emotion.

And THAT is how your waste some neurons.

That was me. And in this case, I think that you'll find similar compelling arguments. BTW, Robert Spencer is one of the most insightful and well-read experts on the history of Islam that you will find. Andrew Bostom, and of course, Bernard Lewis, are also superb sources. Don't dismiss them just because their conclusions are uncomfortable for you.


From the link you just quoted:



He is Norwegian

Nidal Hasan is an American citizen. If it turns out that this guy isn't a Muslim, I'll be the first to concede it. But, given the preponderance of political violence by Muslims, it's a far more understandable conclusion than Mike Bloomberg's speculation that the Times Square bomber was a Tea Partier.

the director
07-22-2011, 08:22 PM
There are a number of studies that compare the levels of violence (and more importantly, exhortations to violence) in the Islamic trilogy (The Qur'an, Sunnah and Hadiths) and the Old and New Testaments. Islam is far more violent, and far more prone to violence, due to the violent proclivities of Mohammed, who founded a religion based on conquest through force of arms. In addition, the doctrine of Abrogation, in which later verses "abrogate" or invalidate prior passages, means that many of the more peaceful passages from the Meccan period are abrogated by much more violent passages in the Medina period. Finally, the Sunnah and Hadiths, which are just as critical to Islam as the Qur'an, include numerous examples of Mohammed lying, cheating and killing to advance Islam (and therefore, himself), and since Mohammed is the example of the spiritually"perfect" Muslim, these are critical texts. The end result is that a devout Muslim is urged to kill or enslave unbelievers and destroy all other cultures, while nothing in the Old or New Testaments demands similar imperialistic designs on the rest of humanity.

This interpretation of aborgation you are talking about is classic Sayyid Qutb, who claims that the Quran "walks" a good Muslim from being peaceful to violent, and uses this as justification for Jihad. Osama bin Laden and his boss whose name escapes me at this moment used this book among others to justify their split from MB and forming al-Qa'ida.

If this was the only interpretation, then a much larger number of Muslims would be fighting us right now. Just as if a Christian were to believe everything in the Bible, they would not be an acceptable American - killing homosexuals and oppressing women. Both books contain passages that are now accepted to be barbaric, but were acceptable at the time the books were written, such as genocide, killing of civilians, women as a second class, etc. As for which one is more, does it matter? I'd like to see some sources though.


This is a widely disseminated myth. In fact, those Muslim rulers who were tolerant were considered apostates by the vast majority of the Ummah, and the scientific advances in Islam were mostly the result of Islamic encroachment on other, more advanced regions. After the publication of the Incoherence of the Philosophers by al-Ghazali, and the rise of the Asharite school of Islamic philosophy, scientific achievement came to a screeching halt. The treatment of non-Muslims varied, but doctrinally, Islam demands that Jews and Christians be subjected to specific humiliations and acts of subjugation in order to demonstrate their submission to Islam. Non-Muslims are not accorded dhimmi status, and can be slaughtered with impunity. The history of the Islamic conquest of India, in which tens of millions of Hindus, Sikhs and Buddhists were butchered after surrender, and their families enslaved, is a series of atrocities on a scale not equaled until the Nazis combined the doctrines of Islamic subjugation with modern industrial techniques.

I admit this area of history is not my strongest suit, so if I have to go back and re-look at scientific achievement under Islam, then so be it. I find it hard to believe that these advancements were being made while Islam just so happened to be the jokers in charge.

Many cultures in that time frame used brutal conquering tactics, including the Mongols who later converted to Islam in large numbers.

fettpett
07-22-2011, 08:26 PM
I admit this area of history is not my strongest suit, so if I have to go back and re-look at scientific achievement under Islam, then so be it. I find it hard to believe that these advancements were being made while Islam just so happened to be the jokers in charge.

Many cultures in that time frame used brutal conquering tactics, including the Mongols who later converted to Islam in large numbers.

you know that most of Islam's "advancement" was more or less rediscovery of Classical Greek and Roman Philosophy

Hawkgirl
07-22-2011, 08:30 PM
I admit this area of history is not my strongest suit, so if I have to go back and re-look at scientific achievement under Islam, then so be it. I find it hard to believe that these advancements were being made while Islam just so happened to be the jokers in charge.

.
Advancements were made IN SPITE of Islam rather than because of it.

the director
07-22-2011, 08:34 PM
Nah, I like Jews and Hindu's are okay too.:D I worked with an Eqyptian many years ago...he was not an extremist in any sense of the word....but boy did he hate Jews and Americans....this was way before 9/11...it was right around the liberation of Kuwait...the muslims I worked with up in arms about the "american occupation" in Kuwait.
You see, the BEST muslims, are those that don't read the Koran, or believe in it's teachings. But isn't Islam about the Koran's teachings.
Do I need to start quoting the KORAN??? The best muslims are the ones that don't practice it.

ALL the PC bullshit in the world doesn't change that fact.

I am in no way supporting a PC position - I fully admit that Islam has significant issues it needs to address. But a lot of what is presumed about Islam is either unnecessarily sensationalized or fearmongered, usually for alternative motives. I refuse to take the scared-of-Muslims position like liberal apologists, but I also refuse to take the Muslims-are-the-spawn-of-Satan view either.

I've worked with Iraqis of all different flavors - Iraqis reminded me a lot of my small town when I grew up. Some religious nutjobs, some atheists, most people were moderately religious and didn't take religion too seriously. Everything in moderation is key I guess.



That was me. And in this case, I think that you'll find similar compelling arguments. BTW, Robert Spencer is one of the most insightful and well-read experts on the history of Islam that you will find. Andrew Bostom, and of course, Bernard Lewis, are also superb sources. Don't dismiss them just because their conclusions are uncomfortable for you.

Nidal Hasan is an American citizen. If it turns out that this guy isn't a Muslim, I'll be the first to concede it. But, given the preponderance of political violence by Muslims, it's a far more understandable conclusion than Mike Bloomberg's speculation that the Times Square bomber was a Tea Partier.

I thought the attack today was Islamic Extremism too, it had a lot of the same marks as Mumbai. I know you weren't talking to me but there ya go.

Robert Spencer and his disciples are very informed, they know their stuff, and they probably know the Quran better than most Muslims. I don't discard them because they have uncomfortable conclusions. Funnily enough, they kept telling me to "not dismiss them because this is uncomfortable" throughout their briefs.

I am not uncomfortable, if I really did think Islam was a poison religion I would have no problem voicing that opinion. I think a lot of the Muslim hate is more derived from the fact that Christianity and Islam are not compatable with each other due to the differences in beliefs in Jesus, so therefore each side has to demonize and undermine each other. A friend of mine pointed out that Al-Jazeera English frequently posts quotes from the Bible that "proves" the USA is on a crusade. It is all about POV, and an us vs. them mentality.

Robert Spencer does an amazing job at maintaining awareness and encouraging others to do the same. That is where my praise of him ends.

Wei Wu Wei
07-22-2011, 08:35 PM
MOOSELEMS


baaaaaaaad

Hawkgirl
07-22-2011, 08:44 PM
I I am not uncomfortable, if I really did think Islam was a poison religion I would have no problem voicing that opinion. I think a lot of the Muslim hate is more derived from the fact that Christianity and Islam are not compatable with each other due to the differences in beliefs in Jesus, so therefore each side has to demonize and undermine each other. .

Dingggg....Wrong. The Bible teaches, "Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; the Koran, "kill all infidels"

See the distinction?

Hawkgirl
07-22-2011, 08:48 PM
MOOSELEMS


baaaaaaaad

Great! Go live under Sharia Law and see how fast you run.

Wei Wu Wei
07-22-2011, 08:59 PM
Dingggg....Wrong. The Bible teaches, "Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

Try obeying that sometime ;)

Hawkgirl
07-22-2011, 09:01 PM
Try obeying that sometime ;)

:nono: don't tell me what to do


:an:

Rockntractor
07-22-2011, 09:01 PM
Try obeying that sometime ;)

You are so full of it you little clown.:justice:

Apocalypse
07-22-2011, 09:03 PM
Another update.


17 Die in Norway Shooting and Bombing


...Police arrested an ethnic Norwegian in connection with both attacks, which stunned this ordinarily placid nation and killed at least 17 people.

According to Will McCants, a terrorism analyst at C.N.A., a research institute, a previously unknown group, Ansar al-Jihad al-Alami, or the Helpers of the Global Jihad, claimed responsibility for the attacks, saying they were a response to the presence of Norwegian forces in Afghanistan and to unspecified insults to the Prophet Muhammad.

But Norwegian television reports later suggested that the group had denied responsibility. In the immediate aftermath of recent terrorist attacks, jihadi forums are often filled with claims and counterclaims that are impossible to independently confirm.

The report also added that Norwegian businesses and high-profile figures were likely to be targets. Three Norwegian men were arrested in July 2010 on suspicion of terrorism and were said to be a terrorist “node” in a larger global network, American counterterrorism officials said at the time.



And on a Al Jazeera news blog.


MOSSAD SUSPECTED OF BOMBING IN NORWAY



http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-YunLcNYQnFo/TimnGppS6AI/AAAAAAAAC2Y/zLcUv6piaqA/s320/norway.JPG (http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-YunLcNYQnFo/TimnGppS6AI/AAAAAAAAC2Y/zLcUv6piaqA/s1600/norway.JPG)
Police in Norway suspect the Israeli intelligence (?), service, MOSSAD, of carrying out a bombing in Oslo which was initially blamed on Islamists.

The Prime Minister's office appears to be the target. It's thought the bombing may be an attempt to deflect attention away from the Zionist, Rupert Murdoch, who has been in the news all over Europe.

So looks like Wei was right, its the JEWS!

Wei Wu Wei
07-22-2011, 09:03 PM
:nono: don't tell me what to do


:an:

i didn't write those rules, but it helps to remind others of their truth

Hawkgirl
07-22-2011, 09:06 PM
i didn't write those rules, but it helps to remind others of their truth


Right, so , as I said...go live under Sharia Law..with the other muslim sympathizers...

Hawkgirl
07-22-2011, 09:08 PM
Another update.



And on a Al Jazeera news blog.



So looks like Wei was right, its the JEWS!

Oh Noes! :eek: If Al Jazeera said it,.....IT MUST BE TRUE.:DDsmilie_panic:

Wei Wu Wei
07-22-2011, 09:12 PM
And on a Al Jazeera news blog.

I searched for Mossad and Norway at Al Jazeera and I can't find this anywhere. source?

Wei Wu Wei
07-22-2011, 09:13 PM
Oh Noes! :eek: If Al Jazeera said it,.....IT MUST BE TRUE.:DDsmilie_panic:

As far as I can tell, Al Jazeera didn't say it :confused:

Hawkgirl
07-22-2011, 09:19 PM
As far as I can tell, Al Jazeera didn't say it :confused:


going on Apoc's post....

KhrushchevsShoe
07-22-2011, 09:21 PM
going on Apoc's post....

Which doesn't even have a link.

KhrushchevsShoe
07-22-2011, 09:22 PM
Crazed right-wing nutjob blows up government building and kills a bunch of people. Where have I seen this before?

Apocalypse
07-22-2011, 09:25 PM
Oh Noes! :eek: If Al Jazeera said it,.....IT MUST BE TRUE.:DDsmilie_panic:
And this is from another source analyzing that report.



Norway Bombing Has Stench Of Mossad All Over It!


Just this morning came reports of several bombs going off in the heart of Oslo, Norway, near the Norwegian Capitol Buildings. There was also reports of a gunman shooting at youths on an island just off the coast of Norway to boot!

The moment I read the reports coming in from the Jewish controlled MSM, I smelled a rat.... This bombing has the earmarks of the Israeli Mossad written all over it.

NTS Notes: All of the rhetoric coming out of the controlled MSM is of course trying to point at some Muslim "terrorist" group as being the cause of this bombing... But common sense would dictate that there is no logical reason for the Muslims to target the Norwegians in the first place. Which means that some other group is responsible for these bombings... Now who could that be?

OK... Here are a few reasons why the Mossad would target Norway for this bombing:

(1) Norway is about to put its support behind the call for Palestinian Independence.
(2) Norway is about to withdraw its forces and its support for the evil IMF led war against Libya
(3) Norwegian businesses have been diverging their support for Israeli stocks, and excluding Israeli investments in Norway especially in Norwegian oil, due to ethical grounds.
(4) And of course, obvious deflection of media attention away from Rupert Murdoch's crumbling media empire in the United Kingdom

This is only a small list of some of the possible reasons for the Mossad bombing in Oslo... But one major reason might be to scare those European nations that may be taking the Greek and Icelandic route and just saying NO to evil austerity measures to obey their Jewish masters' orders, or they could be next!

As I have already stated; When the controlled media shouts out that it was a "Muslim terrorist" attack in Norway, just use some common sense and realize that there is only one criminal group on Earth that has the motive and the means of carrying out this attack.

Always remember the Mossad's infamous motto: "By Way Of Deception, Thou Shalt Do War!"

More to come

NTS

Fine reporting like this is just like when Al Jazeera busted the truth behind who was really behind 9/11, THE EVIL JEWS who committed the attacks to trick the US into declaring war on innocent peace loving Muslims to help murder them!

the director
07-22-2011, 09:28 PM
Crazed right-wing nutjob blows up government building and kills a bunch of people. Where have I seen this before?

Crazed left-wing nutjobs conduct violence as well. The difference being, conservatives don't equate left-wing politics with left-wing extremism. We know the left struggles with their extremists just as the right-wing has their own. When crazy people do crazy things it doesn't really matter what they believe, it just means they were crazy. I don't think you will find anyone on this site who advocates blowing up buildings and shooting kids.

Of course, I never put it past a liberal to use death and destruction to gain political points.

Wei Wu Wei
07-22-2011, 09:28 PM
Stop lying apoc

both of those articles come from this blog: http://northerntruthseeker.blogspot.com/

That is not Al Jazeera :rolleyes:

nice try though

CueSi
07-22-2011, 09:30 PM
Crazed right-wing nutjob blows up government building and kills a bunch of people. Where have I seen this before?

We don't even know if he falls under any part of the European political spectrum yet.

I'm making some cocoa with Jack in it... the official drink of waiting and seeing.

~QC

KhrushchevsShoe
07-22-2011, 09:32 PM
When crazy people do crazy things it doesn't really matter what they believe, it just means they were crazy.

So, when a Muslim crashes some planes into some buildings and kills a whole heap of people his religion doesn't mean anything because he was crazy and would've committed a heinous act for whatever reason?

Hawkgirl
07-22-2011, 09:33 PM
We don't even know if he falls under any part of the European political spectrum yet.

I'm making some cocoa with Jack in it... the official drink of waiting and seeing.

~QC


I don't have Jack, can I throw in some almond flavored tequila I brought back from Mexico last year? Into hot chocolate, that is.

Apocalypse
07-22-2011, 09:34 PM
Stop lying apoc

both of those articles come from this blog: http://northerntruthseeker.blogspot.com/

That is not Al Jazeera :rolleyes:

nice try though
Read closer dumb ass, only one came from there.

http://usmilnet.com/smf/Smileys/default/bwah.gif

Hawkgirl
07-22-2011, 09:35 PM
So, when a Muslim crashes some planes into some buildings and kills a whole heap of people his religion doesn't mean anything because he was crazy and would've committed a heinous act for whatever reason?


Not if he flies it under the flag of Islam....

KhrushchevsShoe
07-22-2011, 09:35 PM
Read closer dumb ass, only one came from there.

http://usmilnet.com/smf/Smileys/default/bwah.gif

Well with your credibility on this topic in such remarkable shape I guess I'll just trust that your second unlinked reference to Al Jazeera is correct.

KhrushchevsShoe
07-22-2011, 09:36 PM
Not if he flies it under the flag of Islam....

Well I already know you're a bigoted retard, so I wasn't really asking you. This other guy I'm just trying to figure out.

the director
07-22-2011, 09:39 PM
So, when a Muslim crashes some planes into some buildings and kills a whole heap of people his religion doesn't mean anything because he was crazy and would've committed a heinous act for whatever reason?

Apparently you don't believe in reading entire threads.

CueSi
07-22-2011, 09:41 PM
I don't have Jack, can I throw in some almond flavored tequila I brought back from Mexico last year? Into hot chocolate, that is.

Sure, why not. Maybe some popcorn or chocolate covered pretzels are in order?

~QC

Hawkgirl
07-22-2011, 09:42 PM
Well I already know you're a bigoted retard, so I wasn't really asking you. This other guy I'm just trying to figure out.

ouch! do you have your period tonight?

Hawkgirl
07-22-2011, 09:43 PM
Sure, why not. Maybe some popcorn or chocolate covered pretzels are in order?

~QC



How about a smores???:D

megimoo
07-22-2011, 09:45 PM
ouch! do you have your period tonight?
That Old Crow Is Much too Ancient and dried up for that period stuff !!!!

Wei Wu Wei
07-22-2011, 10:14 PM
Read closer dumb ass, only one came from there.

http://usmilnet.com/smf/Smileys/default/bwah.gif

just give a link fool. if it's there i want to see it.

I'm searching on al jazeera and I can't find anything like this on there. if you are reading an al jazeera article just provide a link already. no need for games

Odysseus
07-22-2011, 10:45 PM
This interpretation of aborgation you are talking about is classic Sayyid Qutb, who claims that the Quran "walks" a good Muslim from being peaceful to violent, and uses this as justification for Jihad. Osama bin Laden and his boss whose name escapes me at this moment used this book among others to justify their split from MB and forming al-Qa'ida.
Except that it goes back way beyond Qutb. Mohammed himself laid out the doctrine in the Qur'an in Surah 2:106:

None of Our revelations do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, but We substitute something better or similar: Knowest thou not that Allah Hath power over all things?

It's not a new doctrine, and it goes to the core of Mohammed's expediency. Islam existed to empower Mohammed, and now, 1400 years later, it's empowering those who share his personality traits: sociopathy, priapism and violent narcissism.


If this was the only interpretation, then a much larger number of Muslims would be fighting us right now. Just as if a Christian were to believe everything in the Bible, they would not be an acceptable American - killing homosexuals and oppressing women. Both books contain passages that are now accepted to be barbaric, but were acceptable at the time the books were written, such as genocide, killing of civilians, women as a second class, etc. As for which one is more, does it matter? I'd like to see some sources though.
If you define "us" as America, then you're failing to take proximity into account. Look at how Muslims treat Christians, Jews and other non-Muslims in Muslim-majority countries (or even countries with Muslim pluralities). It takes very little effort for an imam to get a mob to attack non-Muslims in Muslim states, especially Jews, which is why the Jewish populations of Muslim majority countries are invariably minute. However, to give you an idea of the depth of Islamic loathing for kaffirs, just look at the population figures for non-Muslims in Pakistan, where Hindus are being driven from the country or forced to convert. OTOH, Muslim populations in non-Muslim countries invariably increase, as they encounter very little prejudice until they begin to impose the dictates of Sharia on their neighbors. For the sourcing on the comparisons of the Bible and Qur'an, go here for the short version: http://www.americanthinker.com/2010/09/the_political_violence_of_the.html


I admit this area of history is not my strongest suit, so if I have to go back and re-look at scientific achievement under Islam, then so be it. I find it hard to believe that these advancements were being made while Islam just so happened to be the jokers in charge.

Many cultures in that time frame used brutal conquering tactics, including the Mongols who later converted to Islam in large numbers.
But none so much as Islam. The Christian conquest of Rome was as peaceful as it gets, in fact, unless you count the persecutions that Christians suffered as they preached. Judaism has never been a proselytizing religion, and the Old Testament rules of conduct for Jews do not allow double standards for dealing with non-Jews. The Crusades, which most people cite as an example of Christian imperialism, were actually a reaction to the Muslim conquest of the Christian kingdoms of the Levant, and the subsequent abuse of Christians in those lands

I am in no way supporting a PC position - I fully admit that Islam has significant issues it needs to address. But a lot of what is presumed about Islam is either unnecessarily sensationalized or fearmongered, usually for alternative motives. I refuse to take the scared-of-Muslims liberals take, but I also refuse to take the Muslims-are-the-spawn-of-Satan views either.
It is not simply that Islam has significant issues. Islam is a religion only in the sense that Mohammed wanted a religious sanction to gain followers, subjugate his neighbors and expand his harem. Islam is first and foremost a political system, with religious trappings. It commands the conquest of the entire world, the subjugation or slaughter of all infidels and the destruction of any faith other than Islam. No other major religion commands global conquest or the destruction of all conflicting forms of belief in its basic scriptures, and none has the history of perpetual violence that Islam does.


Robert Spencer and his disciples are very informed, they know their stuff, and they probably know the Quran better than most Muslims. I don't discard them because they have uncomfortable conclusions. Funnily enough, they kept telling me to "not dismiss them because this is uncomfortable" throughout their briefs.

I am not uncomfortable, if I really did think Islam was a poison religion I would have no problem voicing that opinion. I think a lot of the Muslim hate is more derived from the fact that Christianity and Islam are not compatable with each other due to the differences in beliefs in Jesus, so therefore each side has to demonize and undermine each other. A friend of mine pointed out that Al-Jazeera English frequently posts quotes from the Bible that "proves" the USA is on a crusade. It is all about POV, and an us vs. them mentality.

Robert Spencer does an amazing job at maintaining awareness and encouraging others to do the same. That is where my praise of him ends.
It isn't hatred. It's a realistic understanding of the imperialistic nature of Islam as a political system. Spencer is right about it. As you have stated, he knows his stuff. If you disagree with his conclusions, then perhaps you need to do more research.

MOOSELEMS
baaaaaaaad

Are you still here? Isn't there a little old non-unionized mom and pop shop that needs to be firebombed in the name of the proletariat that you're neglecting?

SaintLouieWoman
07-22-2011, 10:52 PM
ouch! do you have your period tonight?
He's just being his usual charming self. :rolleyes:

Apache
07-22-2011, 11:03 PM
As I said, each religion undergoes its dark ages - Christianity currently isn't in a dark age but it still struggles with its own crop of modern day extremists, albeit to a much lesser extent than what Islam is struggling with today.

Oh wow1!!!!111eleventyone!11111



We gotsa moral equikwator.....:smilie_catfight:

Zathras
07-22-2011, 11:14 PM
Well with your credibility on this topic in such remarkable shape I guess I'll just trust that your second unlinked reference to Al Jazeera is correct.

You're not the one to be talking about anyone's credibility fucktard.

megimoo
07-22-2011, 11:28 PM
AP story....


http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/E/EU_NORWAY_EXPLOSION?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2011-07-22-22-06-19

Odysseus
07-22-2011, 11:42 PM
Terror attacks in Oslo and Norwegian youth camp kill at least 27
By BILL ROGGIO AND LISA LUNDQUISTJuly 22, 2011

Aftermath of the car bombing in Oslo, Norway. Reuters photograph.

A large explosion in downtown Oslo today has killed at least seven people and injured scores more. The massive blast, which was caused by at least one bomb, blew out windows at several government buildings and triggered an evacuation of the area, according to The Associated Press. A "prominent jihadist" commented on today's attack at an al Qaeda-linked forum, and said it was carried out to punish Norway for deploying troops to Afghanistan.

In a related development, the Telegraph reports that on the island of Utoeya, northwest of Oslo, a gunman dressed as a policeman shot and killed at least 20 people attending the annual youth camp for the Labor party, the political party of Norwegian Prime Minister Jens Stoltenberg. One witness claimed 20 to 25 people may have been killed in the shooting. Police have arrested the shooter and claimed he was linked to the Oslo bombing, but have not released any details.

The explosion in Oslo, which occurred at about 3:30 in the afternoon, heavily damaged the offices of the prime minister as well as those of a nearby newspaper and a news agency. Across the street, the Norwegian oil ministry building caught fire. The prime minister, who was working at home that day, was apparently unhurt. He has described the situation as "very serious," according to the BBC, and asked that his location not be revealed.

The 17-story building housing the government offices as well as that of the Norwegian tabloid VG was on fire, and the ground floor is reported to be "completely gutted." The Norwegian police have issued a statement saying that a "powerful explosion has taken place in the government quarter," according to the Telegraph.

Norwegian police have confirmed that the explosion was caused by a bomb. The remains were visible of a car parked in front of one of the buildings. Speculation has arisen as to a delivery van that was parked nearby, reports The Foreigner. Some witnesses said there were multiple explosions, the Telegraph reported.

The attack may have involved more than one bomb. A spokesman for the National Police Directorate said that "[w]e think there was more than one blast," the New York Times reported.

A witness said that "it must have been a bomb. People ran in panic... I counted at least 10 injured people," Reuters reported.

Al Qaeda-linked terrorists quickly commented for today's attack. Abu Suleiman al Nasser, who is described by the SITE Intelligence Group as a "prominent jihadist," linked today's attack to Norway's deployment of forces in Afghanistan, and said the "mujahideen" were likely behind it. Nasser also said today's attack was related to the December 2010 suicide attack in Stockholm, Sweden, that killed one person.

"Norway was targeted today to be a lesson and an example to the other countries of Europe," Nasser said in a statement released on the al Qaeda-linked Shumukh al Islam forum, according to a translation provided by SITE. "Since the Stockholm invasion we had threatened more operations and we demanded that the countries of Europe withdraw their armies from the land of Afghanistan and stop their war on Islam and Muslims. We repeat our warning anew to the countries of Europe, and we say to them: carry out the demands of the mujahideen, because what you are seeing is merely the beginning, and what is coming is more."

Another jihadist, who is known as Amir Grozny, said today's attack was in retaliation for Norway's deployment of troops to Afghanistan.

"You have moments to get your soldiers out of the tomb of Khorasan, else you will see blood flow in the streets," Amir Grozny said in a post at the Shumukh al Islam forum, according to SITE.

Today's attack takes place just nine days after Norwegian prosecutors filed charges against Mullah Krekar, a radical Islamist cleric who founded the al Qaeda-linked, Iraq based Ansar al Islam. Krakar threatened to carry out attacks against government officials if he was deported from Norway.

Also, on July 8, prosecutors sought to charge three men linked to al Qaeda for plotting terror attacks in Scandinavia. Mikael Davud, a Uighur, and Shawan Sadek Saeed Bujak, an Iraqi Kurd, both confessed to plotting attacks; the third suspect, David Jakobsen, an Uzbek, was released last year.

Today's attack is the first on Norwegian soil since World War II. The country's terror level has been raised, and citizens are being warned to stay away from central Oslo in the immediate aftermath of the attack.


Note: This article will be updated as more information comes in.

Read more: http://www.longwarjournal.org/archives/2011/07/oslo_blast_hits_gove.php#ixzz1Stcdq5og

The Jihadis seem to think that it was one of theirs. They're certainly happy to take responsibility for it.

megimoo
07-22-2011, 11:43 PM
Anders Behring Breivik is a conservative Christian who enjoys classical music and the video game World of Warcraft.....Breivik has been named by several Norwegian media outlets as the suspected shooter at a youth camp in Oslo, where 10 people were killed Friday and he may be linked to a bombing near the prime minister's residence that killed seven others.

On his Facebook page, which appears to only have been started July 17, Breivik mostly posted music videos and said his interests include hunting and bodybuilding.

Under education, Breivik wrote he studied independently, noting he has "approximately 14,500 hours of study" equivalent to a bachelor of business administration and masters in history, as well as "3,000 hours of study in micro and macro finance, religion ."

His profile also says he's a director at a company called Breivik Geofarm.....He lists himself as single and has five profile photos - four of which are headshots, and one of him at a wedding with two women, one of which is the bride.

A Twitter account is also being linked to Breivik, although there is just one tweet on July 17.

"One person with a belief is equal to the force of 100,000 who have only interests," he wrote.

The television station TV 2 in Norway reported Breivik had right-wing extremist tendancies and had two guns registered under his name.

http://www.torontosun.com/2011/07/22/olso-attacks-suspect-profiled

Generation Why?
07-22-2011, 11:46 PM
Terror attacks in Oslo and Norwegian youth camp kill at least 27
By BILL ROGGIO AND LISA LUNDQUISTJuly 22, 2011

Aftermath of the car bombing in Oslo, Norway. Reuters photograph.

A large explosion in downtown Oslo today has killed at least seven people and injured scores more. The massive blast, which was caused by at least one bomb, blew out windows at several government buildings and triggered an evacuation of the area, according to The Associated Press. A "prominent jihadist" commented on today's attack at an al Qaeda-linked forum, and said it was carried out to punish Norway for deploying troops to Afghanistan.

In a related development, the Telegraph reports that on the island of Utoeya, northwest of Oslo, a gunman dressed as a policeman shot and killed at least 20 people attending the annual youth camp for the Labor party, the political party of Norwegian Prime Minister Jens Stoltenberg. One witness claimed 20 to 25 people may have been killed in the shooting. Police have arrested the shooter and claimed he was linked to the Oslo bombing, but have not released any details.

The explosion in Oslo, which occurred at about 3:30 in the afternoon, heavily damaged the offices of the prime minister as well as those of a nearby newspaper and a news agency. Across the street, the Norwegian oil ministry building caught fire. The prime minister, who was working at home that day, was apparently unhurt. He has described the situation as "very serious," according to the BBC, and asked that his location not be revealed.

The 17-story building housing the government offices as well as that of the Norwegian tabloid VG was on fire, and the ground floor is reported to be "completely gutted." The Norwegian police have issued a statement saying that a "powerful explosion has taken place in the government quarter," according to the Telegraph.

Norwegian police have confirmed that the explosion was caused by a bomb. The remains were visible of a car parked in front of one of the buildings. Speculation has arisen as to a delivery van that was parked nearby, reports The Foreigner. Some witnesses said there were multiple explosions, the Telegraph reported.

The attack may have involved more than one bomb. A spokesman for the National Police Directorate said that "[w]e think there was more than one blast," the New York Times reported.

A witness said that "it must have been a bomb. People ran in panic... I counted at least 10 injured people," Reuters reported.

Al Qaeda-linked terrorists quickly commented for today's attack. Abu Suleiman al Nasser, who is described by the SITE Intelligence Group as a "prominent jihadist," linked today's attack to Norway's deployment of forces in Afghanistan, and said the "mujahideen" were likely behind it. Nasser also said today's attack was related to the December 2010 suicide attack in Stockholm, Sweden, that killed one person.

"Norway was targeted today to be a lesson and an example to the other countries of Europe," Nasser said in a statement released on the al Qaeda-linked Shumukh al Islam forum, according to a translation provided by SITE. "Since the Stockholm invasion we had threatened more operations and we demanded that the countries of Europe withdraw their armies from the land of Afghanistan and stop their war on Islam and Muslims. We repeat our warning anew to the countries of Europe, and we say to them: carry out the demands of the mujahideen, because what you are seeing is merely the beginning, and what is coming is more."

Another jihadist, who is known as Amir Grozny, said today's attack was in retaliation for Norway's deployment of troops to Afghanistan.

"You have moments to get your soldiers out of the tomb of Khorasan, else you will see blood flow in the streets," Amir Grozny said in a post at the Shumukh al Islam forum, according to SITE.

Today's attack takes place just nine days after Norwegian prosecutors filed charges against Mullah Krekar, a radical Islamist cleric who founded the al Qaeda-linked, Iraq based Ansar al Islam. Krakar threatened to carry out attacks against government officials if he was deported from Norway.

Also, on July 8, prosecutors sought to charge three men linked to al Qaeda for plotting terror attacks in Scandinavia. Mikael Davud, a Uighur, and Shawan Sadek Saeed Bujak, an Iraqi Kurd, both confessed to plotting attacks; the third suspect, David Jakobsen, an Uzbek, was released last year.

Today's attack is the first on Norwegian soil since World War II. The country's terror level has been raised, and citizens are being warned to stay away from central Oslo in the immediate aftermath of the attack.


Note: This article will be updated as more information comes in.

Read more: http://www.longwarjournal.org/archives/2011/07/oslo_blast_hits_gove.php#ixzz1Stcdq5og

The Jihadis seem to think that it was one of theirs. They're certainly happy to take responsibility for it.

People claim things all the time to "further their cause".

Sonnabend
07-22-2011, 11:50 PM
And not one of them was able to fire back


The ownership of a firearm is considered a serious responsibility in Norway. Thus, the law for storage of firearms are strict.

For shotguns and rifles, the requirement given in the weapons act is to have the firearm, or a vital part of it, securely locked away. Generally, this means an approved gun safe, securely bolted to a non-removable part of the house. (A vital part is considered to be the bolt group—the bolt head will suffice—for rifles, the slide for pistols, or the barrel of a shotgun.)

The police are allowed to make a home inspection of the safe. An inspection must be announced more than 48 hours in advance, and the police are only allowed to see the safe and make sure it is legally installed.

Ammunition, sold only to persons able to show a valid firearm license, must be locked away but can be stored with the firearms. Without a special permit only 10,000 rounds of ammunition can be stored by a single person, or 15,000 rounds if 5,000 of them are 22.LR or smaller caliber. Two kg of black powder may be stored in a separate building if the person has a license for a black powder firearm.

Older rules stated that the ammunition must be locked away separately, but these rules were abandoned in the latest revision of the weapons act.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-5P9rZXcXhtw/TVkmwbLCl9I/AAAAAAAAC94/-0GpSPocEVU/s400/gun%2Bcontrol.jpg

Wei Wu Wei
07-23-2011, 12:03 AM
New reports say the suspect was a norweigan farmer, who identified as being a "christian" and a "conservative". It looks likely that he was doing this alone. details are still arriving.

Odysseus
07-23-2011, 12:17 AM
People claim things all the time to "further their cause".
Yes, but notice that very few groups claim credit for mass murder. I'd be very surprised if the Boy Scouts announced that they had done this, or a rival camp. Those who want to be associated with mass murder tend to also indulge in it.

New reports say the suspect was a norweigan farmer, who identified as being a "christian" and a "conservative". It looks likely that he was doing this alone. details are still arriving.

I know that if a conservative Christian murdered a bunch of people, it would make your year, but the score is still 100 million needless brutal deaths by communism in the last century to, what, a few hundred? Your side still has the record, Wei.

Rockntractor
07-23-2011, 12:20 AM
New reports say the suspect was a norweigan farmer, who identified as being a "christian" and a "conservative". It looks likely that he was doing this alone. details are still arriving.

I'll wait for some proof, something about this stinks on ice!

Generation Why?
07-23-2011, 12:21 AM
Yes, but notice that very few groups claim credit for mass murder. I'd be very surprised if the Boy Scouts announced that they had done this, or a rival camp. Those who want to be associated with mass murder tend to also indulge in it.




So what you are trying to say is Greenpeace and the ALF have not taken credit for it yet? You need more of an understanding of the Islamic diaspora in Europe (Specifically Extremists) to understand why a group would claim this. Then again, you don't. Like I said people take credit for things all the time. Especially groups that want to be associated with acts such as this in order to gain more followers to whatever it is they fight for. As far as I know, it is a right-wing Norwegian extremist. If it changes, I will recant my statement and develop a new perspective. Until then...

Sonnabend
07-23-2011, 12:27 AM
New reports say the suspect was a norweigan farmer, who identified as being a "christian" and a "conservative". It looks likely that he was doing this alone. details are still arriving.

Shut. the . fuck. UP.

Rockntractor
07-23-2011, 12:30 AM
So what you are trying to say is Greenpeace and the ALF have not taken credit for it yet? You need more of an understanding of the Islamic diaspora in Europe (Specifically Extremists) to understand why a group would claim this. Then again, you don't. Like I said people take credit for things all the time. Especially groups that want to be associated with acts such as this in order to gain more followers to whatever it is they fight for. As far as I know, it is a right-wing Norwegian extremist. If it changes, I will recant my statement and develop a new perspective. Until then...

Paul bot, didn't take you long.:rolleyes:

Generation Why?
07-23-2011, 12:32 AM
Paul bot, didn't take you long.:rolleyes:

I do what I can. And Oklahoma > Texas

Rockntractor
07-23-2011, 12:44 AM
Heavy sigh!:(

Wei Wu Wei
07-23-2011, 01:28 AM
I know that if a conservative Christian murdered a bunch of people, it would make your year

No, this is a terrible tragedy and I'm discussing the story as it becomes clearer.

Some people might spray their shorts when something like this happens because they think they can use it to justify their prejudices, but that's not what I'm doing here. Many people were spouting off BS about Islam within the first few hours (or less) of this tragedy happening, and the facts so far don't seem to support any connection with Islam. That's all I have to say about that.

I'm not going to sit here and claim that his Christian religion made him do this or that his actions or himself represent what Christianity is about at all. That would be ignorant.

The actions of right wing extremists don't represent the values of most conservatives. The actions of violent christian fundamentalists don't represent the values of Christianity. Just because someone identifies with a label doesn't mean that what they do represents that label. This is an example of that.

Sonnabend
07-23-2011, 04:09 AM
The actions of violent christian fundamentalists don't represent the values of Christianity.

Yeah right, those Baptists that flew planes into the WTC. Those Catholics that blew up the Kuta nightclub. Those Lutherans that committed wholesale murder in Mumbai.

You're a creep, you know that?

txradioguy
07-23-2011, 04:28 AM
Shut. the . fuck. UP.

I second that.

txradioguy
07-23-2011, 04:32 AM
So what you are trying to say is Greenpeace and the ALF have not taken credit for it yet? You need more of an understanding of the Islamic diaspora in Europe (Specifically Extremists) to understand why a group would claim this. Then again, you don't. Like I said people take credit for things all the time. Especially groups that want to be associated with acts such as this in order to gain more followers to whatever it is they fight for.

LMFAO...you really have no clue as to who you just said that to don't you?

No...you don't.

But sit back and prepare to get a doctorate level education in this stuff from Ody. He makes what you know about Islamic Disapora look like scribblings of a grade school student.



As far as I know, it is a right-wing Norwegian extremist.

Link?



If it changes, I will recant my statement and develop a new perspective. Until then...


No you won't. I've not met a member of the Ron Paul cult that EVER apologizes or admits when they are wrong.

I see no reason for you to be any different.

txradioguy
07-23-2011, 04:33 AM
Yeah right, those Baptists that flew planes into the WTC. Those Catholics that blew up the Kuta nightclub. Those Lutherans that committed wholesale murder in Mumbai.

You're a creep, you know that?


That's a self answering question isn't it?:D

Molon Labe
07-23-2011, 06:46 AM
quit reading and listening to what the MSM has to say about this incident. We've gone from global jihadists did this to "right wing extreme" shit in the last 12 hours. It's friggin fishy.

Generation Why?
07-23-2011, 07:52 AM
Yeah right, those Baptists that flew planes into the WTC. Those Catholics that blew up the Kuta nightclub. Those Lutherans that committed wholesale murder in Mumbai.

You're a creep, you know that?

You ever heard of Northern Ireland?

Generation Why?
07-23-2011, 08:14 AM
LMFAO...you really have no clue as to who you just said that to don't you?

No...you don't.

But sit back and prepare to get a doctorate level education in this stuff from Ody. He makes what you know about Islamic Disapora look like scribblings of a grade school student.


You have no idea who I am to have said it. I don't see "Ody" educating me too much in something I know.




Link?

CBS (http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503543_162-20082394-503543.html)
Daily Mail (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2017851/Norway-attacks-gunman-Anders-Behring-Breivik-right-wing-extremist-hated-Muslims.html?ito=feeds-newsxml)
AP (http://www.9and10news.com/Category/Story/?id=297744&cID=3)






No you won't. I've not met a member of the Ron Paul cult that EVER apologizes or admits when they are wrong.


I see no reason for you to be any different.


This is the problem we have today. We tend to group people as a collective rather than as an individual or small sub-cell. Unless we are Christians of course. Example: Muslim extremists comprise less than 1% of the Muslim population yet the religion is villified as a whole, BUT the Westboro Baptist Church does not speak for all Baptists/Christians. Not all Paul supporters speak for me. We should tread lightly when we decide to use selectivism. When the events in Norway happened, my first thouht was Islamic extremists for a number of reasons. It has now become a little more clear that this is not the case and I have shifted my thoughts on it i.e. a new perspective. But like I said, if this does turn out to be Islamic Extremism, you can "I told you so" all you want. Funny how we rush to say Islamic Extremists (Me included) yet when it turns out to be a right-wing extremists (So far) everyone on here, instead of defending their personal beliefs and trying to explain how this man doesn't speak for the collective whole, eeryone on here just starts bashing Islam and trying to push th Islamic Extremist rhetoric down other's throats.

SarasotaRepub
07-23-2011, 09:19 AM
I do what I can. And Oklahoma > Texas

As long as you don't turn into a broken record that can only post about Ron Paul you'll be fine here. That simply hasn't been our experience of past Paul supporters.

Past ones have turned into disrupters who just start Ron Paul threads. If you turn out to be a Paulbot you will be shown the door.

Just a fair warning. :) Other than that, welcome to CU and have a greyt time here!

Molon Labe
07-23-2011, 09:22 AM
Crazed right-wing nutjob blows up government building and kills a bunch of people. Where have I seen this before?

Your left/right paradigm is showing. :rolleyes:

linda22003
07-23-2011, 09:35 AM
They do not know what his nationality is but it could have, should have, would have been a right wing extremist.

Update to "was, actually". :rolleyes:

namvet
07-23-2011, 10:11 AM
91 dead at youth camp. suspect in custody, identified as Anders Behring Breivik, is said to have bought 6 tons of fertilizer before bombing.

where have we seen that used before???

SarasotaRepub
07-23-2011, 10:17 AM
91 dead at youth camp. suspect in custody, identified as Anders Behring Breivik, is said to have bought 6 tons of fertilizer before bombing.

where have we seen that used before???

I heard he had a big rose garden...:rolleyes:

namvet
07-23-2011, 10:25 AM
I heard he had a big rose garden...:rolleyes:

what they do on his grave won't pass for rose's

namvet
07-23-2011, 10:28 AM
http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/54227000/jpg/_54227431_54227430.jpg

...Police chief Sveinung Sponheim said his internet postings "suggest that he has some political traits directed toward the right, and anti-Muslim views".

"But whether that was a motivation for the actual act remains to be seen," he told Norwegian broadcaster NRK.

...On the Facebook page attributed to him, he describes himself as a Christian and a conservative.

...A Twitter account attributed to the suspect has also emerged but it only has one post, which is a quote from philosopher John Stuart Mill: "One person with a belief is equal to the force of 100,000 who have only interests."

...In a post in Norwegian in an online forum on December 2009, a user named Anders Behring Breivik claims there is not one country where Muslims have peacefully lived with non-Muslims, stating that instead it has had "catastrophic consequences" for non-Muslims.

...The Norwegian newspaper Verdens Gang quoted a friend as saying that the suspect turned to right-wing extremism when in his late 20s.
He had no military background except for ordinary national service and no criminal record, it seems.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-14259989

fettpett
07-23-2011, 10:32 AM
New reports say the suspect was a norweigan farmer, who identified as being a "christian" and a "conservative". It looks likely that he was doing this alone. details are still arriving.

and you demand links? fuck off with this shit unless YOU have links

Generation Why?
07-23-2011, 10:37 AM
and you demand links? fuck off with this shit unless YOU have links

Did I not proide links? I don't recall if they said anything aout his religion, but I did provide links in regards to the whole right-wing extremism issue.

Generation Why?
07-23-2011, 10:41 AM
As long as you don't turn into a broken record that can only post about Ron Paul you'll be fine here. That simply hasn't been our experience of past Paul supporters.

Past ones have turned into disrupters who just start Ron Paul threads. If you turn out to be a Paulbot you will be shown the door.

Just a fair warning. :) Other than that, welcome to CU and have a greyt time here!

I have made no reference to him outside of my signature. I will probably do so in the elections forum but I will do so professionally. I have an open ear and mind to alternate view points and ideas, hopefully you guys do too.

KhrushchevsShoe
07-23-2011, 11:27 AM
CU's absolute inability to come to terms with the fact a good proper Christian conservative committed these murders is half comical/half disturbing.

At some point you guys are going to have to admit the hate-rhetoric is actually having an effect on these people. You can only just say "Oh, well that one was just crazy" for so long.

obx
07-23-2011, 11:30 AM
The only hate rhetoric I have seen here has come from lib trolls.

SarasotaRepub
07-23-2011, 11:32 AM
CU's absolute inability to come to terms with the fact a good proper Christian conservative committed these murders is half comical/half disturbing.

At some point you guys are going to have to admit the hate-rhetoric is actually having an effect on these people. You can only just say "Oh, well that one was just crazy" for so long.

I don't think anyone is having problems "coming to terms" with this. Kooks with high explosives come in all flavors.

Wei Wu Wei
07-23-2011, 11:38 AM
The only hate rhetoric I have seen here has come from lib trolls.

These quotes didn't come from 'libs'



My view on the whole issue is simple. The only good Muslim is a dead Muslim.



A whole generation is going to have to be wiped out completely (yes I mean genocide) before it changes. That's
just how it is. When too many weeds have taken over the garden, it's time to kill out everything
and start over.

:vomit:

Molon Labe
07-23-2011, 11:41 AM
CU's absolute inability to come to terms with the fact a good proper Christian conservative committed these murders is half comical/half disturbing.

At some point you guys are going to have to admit the hate-rhetoric is actually having an effect on these people. You can only just say "Oh, well that one was just crazy" for so long.


Oh so your for banning certain types of speech? Good to know.

KhrushchevsShoe
07-23-2011, 11:56 AM
Oh so your for banning certain types of speech? Good to know.

I'm for having some self-control when it comes to talking about politics.

Generation Why?
07-23-2011, 12:00 PM
Oh so your for banning certain types of speech? Good to know.

Did we read the same thing?

Molon Labe
07-23-2011, 12:03 PM
I'm for having certain types of speech regulated when it comes to talking about politics.

fixed.

Then you go ahead and practice self control and show every one else how it's done. As for those that do not....that is their right. Ever heard of those? I'm talking left and right and any other collective group you wish. Screw anyone that wishes to limit that.

fettpett
07-23-2011, 12:04 PM
Did I not proide links? I don't recall if they said anything aout his religion, but I did provide links in regards to the whole right-wing extremism issue.

did I quote you? no, I was talking to Wennie boy

Molon Labe
07-23-2011, 12:06 PM
I don't think anyone is having problems "coming to terms" with this. Kooks with high explosives come in all flavors.

same bs the media tried to pull on the kid who shot up Gabby Giffords.......just another right wing crazy.......until they found out he had left leaning views that is. :rolleyes:

Generation Why?
07-23-2011, 12:08 PM
did I quote you? no, I was talking to Wennie boy

Did he have to post links? No, because I did.

Generation Why?
07-23-2011, 12:12 PM
same bs the media tried to pull on the kid who shot up Gabby Giffords.......just another right wing crazy.......until they found out he had left leaning views that is. :rolleyes:

Does it not make sense for that to be the first thought when a Democratic Congresswoman's town hall gets shot up? It's initial thoughts. The facts come out and everything gets sorted. Just like everyone's initial reaction yesterday was Islamic Extremism given previous events. I am not a big fanof the MSM at all but I do understand some decisions that are made when it comes to essentially trying to figure out what the hell is going in in certain situations.

The Night Owl
07-23-2011, 12:19 PM
Norway terror suspect believed to be Christian fundamentalist

With the motive still unknown, Norway police have described the suspect in Friday's deadly attacks in Oslo as an "ethnic Norwegian" and "Christian fundamentalist," dismissing reports of links to rightwing extremists.

The 32-year-old man charged with the deadly Oslo twin bomb and shooting attacks is a blonde-haired and blue-eyed "ethnic Norwegian" with no apparent links to rightwing extremists or terrorist groups, police said Saturday in the wake of the country's worst tragedy since World War II.

"Anders Behring Breivik came from nowhere," police spokesman Roger Andersen said, dismissing claims that the man belonged to any of the known rightwing organizations in Norway.

"We would have otherwise had him on our radar if he had been active in any neo-Nazi group," adding, however, that it was possible that the man was influenced by extremist ideology.

...

http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,,15261515,00.html

Hawkgirl
07-23-2011, 01:10 PM
CU's absolute inability to come to terms with the fact a good proper Christian conservative committed these murders is half comical/half disturbing.

At some point you guys are going to have to admit the hate-rhetoric is actually having an effect on these people. You can only just say "Oh, well that one was just crazy" for so long.

I agree with you, it's not just one crazy Muslim extremist, it's the whole hate rhetoric of Islam. We finally agree on something!!

txradioguy
07-23-2011, 01:30 PM
http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,,15261515,00.html

He's a kook..and any attempt by you or the other haters here to identify him with normal Christians is typically pathetic on your part.

He's identified by the German paper you linked to as a "Christian Nationalist" which when you get a definition of the term means:


The Christian Nationalism movement is a byproduct of the Protestant Dominion Theology, which claims that in preparation for the second coming of Christ, godly men have the responsibility to take over every aspect of society.

http://www.speroforum.com/wiki/default.aspx/SperoWiki/ChristianNationalism.html



Sounds like a Calvinist type of world view. Either way a kook view of the world.

NOT how mainstream Christians see the world.

the director
07-23-2011, 01:31 PM
Except that it goes back way beyond Qutb. Mohammed himself laid out the doctrine in the Qur'an in Surah 2:106:

None of Our revelations do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, but We substitute something better or similar: Knowest thou not that Allah Hath power over all things?

It's not a new doctrine, and it goes to the core of Mohammed's expediency. Islam existed to empower Mohammed, and now, 1400 years later, it's empowering those who share his personality traits: sociopathy, priapism and violent narcissism.


If you define "us" as America, then you're failing to take proximity into account. Look at how Muslims treat Christians, Jews and other non-Muslims in Muslim-majority countries (or even countries with Muslim pluralities). It takes very little effort for an imam to get a mob to attack non-Muslims in Muslim states, especially Jews, which is why the Jewish populations of Muslim majority countries are invariably minute. However, to give you an idea of the depth of Islamic loathing for kaffirs, just look at the population figures for non-Muslims in Pakistan, where Hindus are being driven from the country or forced to convert. OTOH, Muslim populations in non-Muslim countries invariably increase, as they encounter very little prejudice until they begin to impose the dictates of Sharia on their neighbors. For the sourcing on the comparisons of the Bible and Qur'an, go here for the short version: http://www.americanthinker.com/2010/09/the_political_violence_of_the.html


But none so much as Islam. The Christian conquest of Rome was as peaceful as it gets, in fact, unless you count the persecutions that Christians suffered as they preached. Judaism has never been a proselytizing religion, and the Old Testament rules of conduct for Jews do not allow double standards for dealing with non-Jews. The Crusades, which most people cite as an example of Christian imperialism, were actually a reaction to the Muslim conquest of the Christian kingdoms of the Levant, and the subsequent abuse of Christians in those lands

It is not simply that Islam has significant issues. Islam is a religion only in the sense that Mohammed wanted a religious sanction to gain followers, subjugate his neighbors and expand his harem. Islam is first and foremost a political system, with religious trappings. It commands the conquest of the entire world, the subjugation or slaughter of all infidels and the destruction of any faith other than Islam. No other major religion commands global conquest or the destruction of all conflicting forms of belief in its basic scriptures, and none has the history of perpetual violence that Islam does.


It isn't hatred. It's a realistic understanding of the imperialistic nature of Islam as a political system. Spencer is right about it. As you have stated, he knows his stuff. If you disagree with his conclusions, then perhaps you need to do more research.


Are you still here? Isn't there a little old non-unionized mom and pop shop that needs to be firebombed in the name of the proletariat that you're neglecting?

Well you obviously know your stuff too. Some of what you are saying is above my understanding, but most of it I have already heard and read, and reject that line of thinking. Academically Islam does seem to create a religion that shares similarities with the zerg from starcraft - a culture that revolves around expanding and conquering.

In reality, I don't see it. I've worked with Iraqis, I've studied them, their culture, and their politics up close. I do not see a religion or country hell-bent on conquering. I see a culture that is amazingly tolerant of Christians and even Jews. Yes Jews get pursecuted in the Muslim world, yes Christians get blown up in Iraq. But this is more of a result of totalitarian regimes placing blame on Israel, and extremists who believe radical lines of thinking. Christians were given compensatory seats in the GoI - is that really the hallmark of a zerg-like structure? I think not.

The Muslim hate of Jews has been ingrained by several generations of dictators blaming Israel for why Arabia is starving and poor. They are used as a scapegoat, and as such, are badly treated by idiots who don't know that they have been brainwashed.

Christianity also has expansionist tendencies and have committed their fair share of atrocities in the name of Jesus and God (possibly including Oslo). Does that make Christianity inherintly flawed? No, it just means there are shitheads who do shitty things and they will use whatever book or ideology that gets them to their means.

What sickens me is that I see two sides in this thread right now. The conservatives who are hoping this guy flips muslim (see its dem crazy mooslims), and liberals who hope this guy flips Christian/right wing (see its those crazy religious rightwingnuts) - this kind of thinking is so incredibly toxic that it literally sickens me. I could care less what he flips. Because I know his ideology doesn't matter. If I were to create a religion based off a ham sammich I would place good money that one day some one would either kill themselves or some one else in the name of the holy ham sammich.

I see two categories of people who blow themselves or others up - those predesposed to it through genes, and those created by their socioeconomic surroundings growing up. Neither of which have anything to do with religion.

Rockntractor
07-23-2011, 01:33 PM
Sounds like a Calvinist type of world view. Either way a kook view of the world.

NOT how mainstream Christians see the world.

I am a Calvinist and I assure you he has no connection with my theology.

Generation Why?
07-23-2011, 01:40 PM
He's a kook..and any attempt by you or the other haters here to identify him with normal Christians is typically pathetic on your part.

He's identified by the German paper you linked to as a "Christian Nationalist" which when you get a definition of the term means:



http://www.speroforum.com/wiki/default.aspx/SperoWiki/ChristianNationalism.html



Sounds like a Calvinist type of world view. Either way a kook view of the world.

NOT how mainstream Christians see the world.

Couldn't the same be said about Muslims rather than equating them all with the less than 1%?

Rockntractor
07-23-2011, 01:44 PM
TNO, if you want to quote Jesus use actual quotes and list the Bible text.

Generation Why?
07-23-2011, 01:46 PM
I agree with you, it's not just one crazy Muslim extremist, it's the whole hate rhetoric of Islam. We finally agree on something!!

If that's what you think he said, you don't agree on anything.

Rockntractor
07-23-2011, 01:49 PM
If that's what you think he said, you don't agree on anything.

Their are curious details about you that don't agree.:confused:

txradioguy
07-23-2011, 01:52 PM
The Robert Spencer (jihad watch) version of Islam seems to be really popular among conservatives, which is unfortunate because Spencer is a sensationalist blowhard who can't see past his own nose. I had the displeasure of sitting through a week-long class taught by a couple of his disciples, and while they know their stuff, they are nothing more than Michael Moores.

When was the last time you saw Islam up close and personal?

Ody and I both have more than once in more than one third world shit hole country.

When he and I talk about the real in your face dangers of Islam it doesn't come from watching some tv show or sitting in some seminar.

Our classroom is a little different than that with some VERY unforgiving instructors.

txradioguy
07-23-2011, 01:54 PM
Couldn't the same be said about Muslims rather than equating them all with the less than 1%?

Nope not really. Not from my on the ground experiences.

When was the last time YOU were in a Muslim country knee deep in Islam?

txradioguy
07-23-2011, 01:56 PM
I am a Calvinist and I assure you he has no connection with my theology.


True. But the larger point was that just because the word "Christian" is in the description of what this guys outlook is on life doesn't mean that simple minded bigots like TNO should/could blanket all Christians as like this guy.

He was trying his normal trick of playing the moral equivalance card...and he failed again.

Generation Why?
07-23-2011, 01:58 PM
Their are curious details about you that don't agree.:confused:

What do you mean? The comment HawkGirl is referrin to specifically said it is half-comical/half-disturbing that those on CU cannot accept the fact that there are far right Christian crazies are just as capable of doing stuff like Oslo just as much as there are leftist crazies or Islamic crazies capable of doing it. Hawk took it as Muslims are evil. Which, if you ever actually met a Muslim, is not the case.

Generation Why?
07-23-2011, 02:00 PM
Nope not really. Not from my on the ground experiences.

When was the last time YOU were in a Muslim country knee deep in Islam?

2010

txradioguy
07-23-2011, 02:00 PM
What do you mean? The comment HawkGirl is referrin to specifically said it is half-comical/half-disturbing that those on CU cannot accept the fact that there are far right Christian crazies are just as capable of doing stuff like Oslo just as much as there are leftist crazies or Islamic crazies capable of doing it. Hawk took it as Muslims are evil. Which, if you ever actually met a Muslim, is not the case.

How many have YOU met in your lifetime?

You're making all these assumptions and accusations against us having never been to a Muslim country I'd be willing to bet.

Easy to armchair QB and point the accusing finger from the relative safety of the U.S.

txradioguy
07-23-2011, 02:01 PM
2010

Iraq or Afghanistan?

Rockntractor
07-23-2011, 02:03 PM
2010

Where are you now?

Generation Why?
07-23-2011, 02:03 PM
Nope not really. Not from my on the ground experiences.

When was the last time YOU were in a Muslim country knee deep in Islam?

From my experience, the Westboro Baptist Church is full of crazy assholes, I guess all Baptists are. A better question would be: When was the last time you were friends with a Muslim? Actually got to know one that wasn't in MENA

Hawkgirl
07-23-2011, 02:05 PM
If that's what you think he said, you don't agree on anything.

Tongue in cheek, what he said applies to Islamists.

txradioguy
07-23-2011, 02:06 PM
From my experience, the Westboro Baptist Church is full of crazy assholes, I guess all Baptists are. A better question would be: When was the last time you were friends with a Muslim? Actually got to know one that wasn't in MENA

There are three in my company right now.

Worked with several last year that put their ass on the line to come back to Afghanistan to act as interpreters.

So I had a very good comparison between the Americanized ones that you've met and the hard core mud hut living worshippers that tell us Obama is a Muslim and when they aren't taking our money during the day they're helping the Talibs plan IED's at night.

txradioguy
07-23-2011, 02:07 PM
From my experience, the Westboro Baptist Church is full of crazy assholes, I guess all Baptists are. A better question would be: When was the last time you were friends with a Muslim? Actually got to know one that wasn't in MENA

Westboro is a church of about 50 people with only one member not a part of the Phelps family.

Were you trying to draw a comparison that meant something or just showing us how little you really know about the subject?

the director
07-23-2011, 02:08 PM
When was the last time you saw Islam up close and personal?

Ody and I both have more than once in more than one third world shit hole country.

When he and I talk about the real in your face dangers of Islam it doesn't come from watching some tv show or sitting in some seminar.

Our classroom is a little different than that with some VERY unforgiving instructors.

Apparently you don't believe in reading the newbie welcome forums. Fair enough, I've been to Iraq twice and Haiti once.

Comparing former military experiences, especially since we don't see eye to eye, is not appropriate for an open forum like this. You want to PM me we can continue there. That is all I have to say on the matter.

Generation Why?
07-23-2011, 02:11 PM
Westboro is a church of about 50 people with only one member not a part of the Phelps family.

Were you trying to draw a comparison that meant something or just showing us how little you really know about the subject?

The point was don't let some speak for all.

txradioguy
07-23-2011, 02:16 PM
The point was don't let some speak for all.

Your comparison makes no sense and was pretty pathetic.

You could at least try to something relevant.

Only Liberal idiots try to use Westboro to tar and feather all Christians.

Hawkgirl
07-23-2011, 02:19 PM
Your comparison makes no sense and was pretty pathetic.

You could at least try to something relevant.

Only Liberal idiots try to use Westboro to tar and feather all Christians.

These Typical liberal talking points are getting tiresome.

txradioguy
07-23-2011, 02:20 PM
Apparently you don't believe in reading the newbie welcome forums. Fair enough, I've been to Iraq twice and Haiti once.

Haiti is Muslim? Who knew? :roll eyes:

And Iraq doesn't give you an idea of what Islam is like since they are about as secular as any country in that region and you know that.


Comparing former military experiences, especially since we don't see eye to eye, is not appropriate for an open forum like this.

That's bullshit and you know it.



You want to PM me we can continue there. That is all I have to say on the matter.

I don't have to hide behind PM's on this.

txradioguy
07-23-2011, 02:20 PM
These Typical liberal talking points are getting tiresome.

QFT

Hawkgirl
07-23-2011, 02:27 PM
Btw Muslim sympathizers, ever ask a woman living under Sharia law, how great her life is? Men might be living more comfortably. They don't get stoned as much and aren't the biggest victims of honor killings that still happen today. Islam, what a great religion for misogynists!!

the director
07-23-2011, 02:52 PM
Btw Muslim sympathizers, ever ask a woman living under Sharia law, how great her life is? Men might be living more comfortably. They don't get stoned as much and aren't the biggest victims of honor killings that still happen today. Islam, what a great religion for misogynists!!

More of a cultural thing.


1 Timothy 2:11 "Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
2:13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
2:14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
2:15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety."


Here is a link to all of the verses in the Quran pertaining to women: http://www.jannah.org/sisters/177.html

Some are oppressive, some respect the rights of women.

txradioguy
07-23-2011, 03:01 PM
More of a cultural thing.

Bullshit...it's taught from birth.




Here is a link to all of the verses in the Quran pertaining to women: http://www.jannah.org/sisters/177.html

Some are oppressive, some respect the rights of women.

They are treated like cattle in Muslim countries. They can't vote and can't drive.

Tell this girl that Islam "respects" the rights of women:

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/.a/6a00d8341c630a53ef013486308b82970c-320wi

Her ears were cut off too.

The Night Owl
07-23-2011, 03:01 PM
Wow! Where is the Bible verse I posted? Full on censorship at CU? It's like the old days all over again. Of course, I do find it kind of funny that of all the things I've posted, my quoting of scripture is what drove the mods to censorship.

Hawkgirl
07-23-2011, 03:02 PM
More of a cultural thing.



Here is a link to all of the verses in the Quran pertaining to women: http://www.jannah.org/sisters/177.html

Some are oppressive, some respect the rights of women.

What's your stance of the treatment of women under the Taliban? Were they good Muslims too? Let's put aside the car bombings, suicide bombings, the attacks on 9/11. How do you defend the treatment of women under fundamentalists like the Taliban? Can u admit that the only good Muslim is a non practicing Muslim ?
Islam is a religion created by a pedophile, it deserves no respect.

txradioguy
07-23-2011, 03:03 PM
Wow! Where is the Bible verse I posted? Full on censorship at CU? It's like the old days all over again. Of course, I do find it kind of funny that of all the things I've posted, my quoting of scripture is what drove the mods to censorship.

Blow it out your ass Dirty Bird.

Rockntractor
07-23-2011, 03:03 PM
Bullshit...it's taught from birth.





They are treated like cattle in Muslim countries. They can't vote and can't drive.

Tell this girl that Islam "respects" the rights of women:

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/.a/6a00d8341c630a53ef013486308b82970c-320wi

Her ears were cut off too.
Her lady parts were cut off Also, but that is routine with these barbarians.

txradioguy
07-23-2011, 03:04 PM
What's your stance of the treatment of women under the Taliban? Were they good Muslims too? Let's put aside the car bombings, suicide bombings, the attacks on 9/11. How do you defend the treatment of women under fundamentalists like the Taliban? Can u admit that the only good Muslim is a non practicing Muslim ?
Islam is a religion created by a pedophile, it deserves no respect.

The brand of Islam the Taliban and their associate groups are selling dominates the Muslim world and this idiot n00b it's as harmless as Christianity.

Rockntractor
07-23-2011, 03:04 PM
Wow! Where is the Bible verse I posted? Full on censorship at CU? It's like the old days all over again. Of course, I do find it kind of funny that of all the things I've posted, my quoting of scripture is what drove the mods to censorship.

You didn't post a bible verse, how would you like a vacation?

The Night Owl
07-23-2011, 03:07 PM
You didn't post a bible verse, how would you like a vacation?


"But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me." - Jesus of Nazareth

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+19%3A27&version=KJV

KhrushchevsShoe
07-23-2011, 03:08 PM
The religion of peace.

The Night Owl
07-23-2011, 03:08 PM
Blow it out your ass Dirty Bird.

Intemperate even for you. Is the heat getting to you?

txradioguy
07-23-2011, 03:09 PM
Her lady parts were cut off Also, but that is routine with these barbarians.


It was done by the Uncle of her husband she was forced to marry at 14 when she was promised to the Taliban by her parents.

THe judgement...issued by a Taliban religious court was to mutilate her to keep her from running away again.

This happened in Uruzgan province where I just spent the last year.

I'm proud to say we caught the bastard and he's in jail in Tarin Kowt.

THIS is what Islam does to people and this is the type of Islam that dominates the Muslim world today.

It's is neither peaceful nor is it nice. It is brutal and oppressing by design.

And those that defend it here are a special brand of stupid.

Wei Wu Wei
07-23-2011, 03:10 PM
How do you defend the treatment of women under fundamentalists like the Taliban? Can u admit that the only good Muslim is a non practicing Muslim ?

You are making the same mistake that radical islamists make, you are buying their lie. Radical Islamists claim that only their interpretation of Islam is the "correct" or "true" one, and that all other Muslims are not being true to their faith.

This is a fundamentalist belief, but it's only an interpretation.


There is no such thing as a single Islam, it is a diverse religion with many different aspects and interpretations. When you claim that "good Muslims" are the "non-practicing", you are only spreading the fundamentalist propaganda that states that only their interpretation represents Islam.

Sure the Taliban and others may see themselves as representing Islam in it's true form, but why do you accept their claim?

There are a great many Muslims who think violent fundamentalists are nothing but a perversion of their faith, who are you to claim which interpretation is the "true one"?

Hawkgirl
07-23-2011, 03:11 PM
The brand of Islam the Taliban and their associate groups are selling dominates the Muslim world and this idiot n00b it's as harmless as Christianity.

Yes I know, wasn't there a threat of stoning in Egypt or Jordan? A supposedly moderate country, I'm on my iPhone or I'd look it up. If it weren't for international outcry, it would've happened, and the recent honor killings in England, the list goes on, and on.

txradioguy
07-23-2011, 03:11 PM
Intemperate even for you. Is the heat getting to you?

It's 55 degrees here after a high of only 62.

Your point?

Wei Wu Wei
07-23-2011, 03:15 PM
As posters are showing here, there are scriptures in Christian and Jewish texts that support horrible things like violence, oppression, slavery, and more. However, it's an issue of interpretation.

Different churches look at the Bible and come to different conclusions. Some churches read the Bible and conclude that "God Hates Fags" and "God Hates America". Other churches read the Bible and say that homosexuality is a sin and not acceptable in the church culture, but that you should love them and treat them with respect. Other churches accept homosexuals in their churches and even hold gay weddings.

It's about different intepretations. Some people who claimed to be Christian used their interpretation of Christianity and the Bible to justify bombing abortion clinics and murdering doctors. Again, this is a problem of interpretation.

It would be wrong to say "The Bible is an evil, violent book and Christianity is an evil violent religion and people who murder doctors and bomb clinics are perfect examples of what happens when you take Christianity too seriously. The only Good christians are christians who don't really follow the bible!"

That is wrong, but that's essentially what you are saying about Muslims. - and by saying this, you are only agreeing with the fundamentalists that they are correct in their interpretation

The Night Owl
07-23-2011, 03:16 PM
You are making the same mistake that radical islamists make, you are buying their lie. Radical Islamists claim that only their interpretation of Islam is the "correct" or "true" one, and that all other Muslims are not being true to their faith.

This is a fundamentalist belief, but it's only an interpretation.



Fundamentalist intepretations are usually dead on. That is, fundamentalists read the old texts in the way they were intended to be read.

I mean, does anyone really believe that the societies which produced texts such as the Bible and the Koran were tolerant and gentle?

Zathras
07-23-2011, 03:16 PM
It's 55 degrees here after a high of only 62.

Your point?

I think the only point the Shit Bird has is at the top of his head.

Wei Wu Wei
07-23-2011, 03:20 PM
Fundamentalist intepretations are usually dead on. That is, fundamentalists read the old texts in the way they were intended to be read.

I mean, does anyone really believe that the societies which produced texts such as the Bible and the Koran were tolerant and gentle?

There are other ways to read texts and gain meaning from them than the way you are describing.

Hawkgirl
07-23-2011, 03:23 PM
Fundamentalist intepretations are usually dead on. That is, fundamentalists read the old texts in the way they were intended to be read.

I mean, does anyone really believe that the societies which produced texts such as the Bible and the Koran were tolerant and gentle?
The difference is Christians today aren't mutilating , stoning, killing women over a Bible passage. Muslims are, in large numbers, as opposed to an act alone psycho like mcveigh.
Why some of u insist on creating a correlation between the two is just plane nutz.

Rockntractor
07-23-2011, 03:33 PM
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+19%3A27&version=KJV

Like I told you, when you quote scripture, post where the text is located.
You whine about censorship one more time and waste our bandwidth and my time, and you can have a time out, got it!

Wei Wu Wei
07-23-2011, 06:03 PM
so it appears that he was sending this video and a long paper to a whole bunch of people before his attack:

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=89a_1311444384
(it keeps trying to auto-embed even though I don't want it to so just click the black bar at the top to go to the site)

The video identifies problems such as:

Cultural Marxism
Multi-Culturalism
Humanism
Islamic Colonialization

It mentions a global jihad and believes that Islam is destroying his nation's cultural identity.,

The video is anti-immigrant, especially with Muslim immigrants. it seems to idolize the european christian crusades.

It says Political Correctness = Multiculturalism and Multiculturalism = Cultural Marxism


This is still a bit of speculation, but if that video and the manifesto represent his views, it seems there is some twisted logic to his attack. He attacked a left-wing labor party camp, a party which is very open in supported a multi-cultural society.

Odysseus
07-23-2011, 06:27 PM
So what you are trying to say is Greenpeace and the ALF have not taken credit for it yet? You need more of an understanding of the Islamic diaspora in Europe (Specifically Extremists) to understand why a group would claim this. Then again, you don't. Like I said people take credit for things all the time. Especially groups that want to be associated with acts such as this in order to gain more followers to whatever it is they fight for. As far as I know, it is a right-wing Norwegian extremist. If it changes, I will recant my statement and develop a new perspective. Until then...
First, ask yourself what kind of organization wants to be associated with terrorist acts, and uses such acts to recruit like-minded followers. Greenpeace and ALF have't taken credit for it because it's unlikely that they had anything to do with it, and because they won't gain anything from being associated with it.

You have no idea who I am to have said it. I don't see "Ody" educating me too much in something I know.
And, on that note...

Have you read the relevant texts of Islam, the Qur'an, the Sunna and the Hadiths? Do you know the history of Islam as an imperialistic ideology of conquest? Or how the current patterns of immigration, infiltration and agitation follow historic strategic parallels that date from Mohammed's immigration to Mecca, his infiltration, agitation and subsequent conquest of the city? Or how that has been repeated throughout Asia, Africa, Europe and now North and South America and Australia? Have you studied the actions of Muslim conquerors in Asia and Africa and looked for parallels in modern tactics of Islamic radicals? What do you know about Sharia Law? Are you aware that CAIR was founded by the Muslim Brotherhood, and that their stated goal is to infiltrate America and the west in order to impose Sharia through stealth jihad? You've cited your military record. Have you done ILE? SPLC? CAX? ANCOC? BNCOC? What are your credentials, troop?


CBS (http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503543_162-20082394-503543.html)
Daily Mail (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2017851/Norway-attacks-gunman-Anders-Behring-Breivik-right-wing-extremist-hated-Muslims.html?ito=feeds-newsxml)
AP (http://www.9and10news.com/Category/Story/?id=297744&cID=3)

This is the problem we have today. We tend to group people as a collective rather than as an individual or small sub-cell. Unless we are Christians of course. Example: Muslim extremists comprise less than 1% of the Muslim population yet the religion is villified as a whole, BUT the Westboro Baptist Church does not speak for all Baptists/Christians. Not all Paul supporters speak for me. We should tread lightly when we decide to use selectivism. When the events in Norway happened, my first thouht was Islamic extremists for a number of reasons. It has now become a little more clear that this is not the case and I have shifted my thoughts on it i.e. a new perspective. But like I said, if this does turn out to be Islamic Extremism, you can "I told you so" all you want. Funny how we rush to say Islamic Extremists (Me included) yet when it turns out to be a right-wing extremists (So far) everyone on here, instead of defending their personal beliefs and trying to explain how this man doesn't speak for the collective whole, eeryone on here just starts bashing Islam and trying to push th Islamic Extremist rhetoric down other's throats.
Salafist Muslims (followers of the original, or "Rightly-Guided" generation of Muslims that lived in Mohammed's time and shortly thereafter) believe the destruction of all non-Muslim culture, the forced submission of non-Muslims and the slaughter or enslavement of those who do not qualify for dhimmi status by virtue of being "people of the book[s]" of Abraham. The European diaspora includes Muslims who have been violently radicalized and who are deeply alienated from European culture, and it's a lot more than 1% of the population. The US Muslim population is generally considered far more assimilated and moderate than the European communities, but even here, the numbers are far greater than the 1% that you cite. Here are the numbers from the 2007 Pew survey on American Muslims(http://pewglobal.org/). The numbers are hardly reassuring:



The Pew Muslim American study estimates that Muslims constitute 0.6% of the U.S.
adult population. This projects to 1.4 million Muslims 18 years old or older currently living in
the United States.
Remember that number, because the following math is derived from it.

-13% of all American Muslims approve of suicide bombings. The sentiment is strongest among younger Muslims.
305,000 Muslims living in the United States support suicide bombings.

-5% if U.S. Muslims support Al Qaeda specifically, although fully 25% refused to answer the question.
117,500 Muslims in the United States admitted that they support Al Qaeda, while five times that number refused to answer.

-Only 40% of American Muslims believe that Arab men attacked the World Trade Center on September 11, 2001.
1,410,000 Muslims in the United States are 9/11 conspiracy theorists who blame someone other than the people who admitted that they did it.

-47% of American Muslims consider themselves Muslim first rather than American.
1,105,000 Muslims living in the United States put Islam before America.

CU's absolute inability to come to terms with the fact a good proper Christian conservative committed these murders is half comical/half disturbing.

At some point you guys are going to have to admit the hate-rhetoric is actually having an effect on these people. You can only just say "Oh, well that one was just crazy" for so long.
See below. And yes, the occasional Christian or Jew flips out, but when that happens, how many other Christians and Jews come out in support of them? OTOH, when Muslims blow up kaffirs, the reaction is usually celebratory. Remember the post-9/11 videos of celebrating Palestinians?

Odysseus
07-23-2011, 06:28 PM
Well you obviously know your stuff too. Some of what you are saying is above my understanding, but most of it I have already heard and read, and reject that line of thinking. Academically Islam does seem to create a religion that shares similarities with the zerg from starcraft - a culture that revolves around expanding and conquering.
If it's beyond your understanding, how can you reject it? Islam is about conquest, from Mohammed's takeover of Medina to the subsequent conquests of the Christian kingdoms of the eastern Med, the Hindu kingdoms of India, the Buddhist nations of SE Asia and the Pacific islands and the Christian and pagan nations and tribes of Africa. In every case, Islam was spread by the sword, and slaughter and slavery followed.


In reality, I don't see it. I've worked with Iraqis, I've studied them, their culture, and their politics up close. I do not see a religion or country hell-bent on conquering. I see a culture that is amazingly tolerant of Christians and even Jews. Yes Jews get pursecuted in the Muslim world, yes Christians get blown up in Iraq. But this is more of a result of totalitarian regimes placing blame on Israel, and extremists who believe radical lines of thinking. Christians were given compensatory seats in the GoI - is that really the hallmark of a zerg-like structure? I think not.
Seriously? Baghdad had one of the largest Jewish populations in the world until a few years ago, dating back to the Babylonian Captivity of Old Testament fame. Now, the number of Jews in Iraq is in single digits. Chaldeans are under intense persecution in Iraq today. From a 2008 report:


Although Article 2 of the Iraqi Constitution guarantees religious freedom, it also contains what some have termed a "repugnancy clause," which states, "No law that contradicts the established provisions of Islam may be established." Because the clause does not explicitly state what the "established provisions of Islam" encompass or exclude, this opens the door for the state and the courts to become theological arbiters. As such, there are no formal avenues for religious minorities to participate in the process.

Furthermore, Article 89 of the constitution stipulates that the Iraqi Federal Supreme Court include experts in Islamic jurisprudence, which means that the provision in Article 2 will be supported by a court system with people specifically employed to interpret Islamic law. These people can be appointed without having civil law training.
In other words, the Iraqi Constitution enshrines Sharia law, which holds that all other religions are inferior to Islam.


The Muslim hate of Jews has been ingrained by several generations of dictators blaming Israel for why Arabia is starving and poor. They are used as a scapegoat, and as such, are badly treated by idiots who don't know that they have been brainwashed.
Uh, no. Islamic hatred of Jews goes back to Mohammed's failure to make any inroads with the Jewish tribes of Medina. After repeatedly getting shown up by rabbis who actually read scripture (Mohammed was illiterate), he became embittered towards Judaism, and his first actions upon achieving power in Medina were to obliterate the Jewish tribes. His successors (literally, Kalifa, from which we get the word "Caliph") simply followed his injunctions. Omar drove all of the Jews out of Arabia after literally interpreting Mohammed's dying command that "two religions cannot exist" in Arabia, and the Hadiths are equally virulent. One Hadith even speaks of how the trees and rocks will inform Muslims that Jews are hiding behind them and exhort them to kill. Known as "The Promise of the Stone and the Tree", it quotes Mohammed stating the following to one of his followers:


"The hour (day of Judgment) will not come until the Muslims fight the Jews and kill them. A Jew will hide behind a rock or a tree, and the rock or tree will call upon the Muslim: "O Muslim, O slave of Allah! There is a Jew behind me, come and kill him!-except for the gharqad tree, for it is one of the trees of the Jews"

That Hadith is over 1100 years old, but it it is quoted verbatim in the Hamas charter and taught to schoolkids throughout the Arab world. In addition, you find anti-semitic asides in the writings of Sufi scholars in India who never met a Jew, and in Africa and Asia as well. It's not simply a current policy, but an ancient hate.

Christianity also has expansionist tendencies and have committed their fair share of atrocities in the name of Jesus and God (possibly including Oslo). Does that make Christianity inherintly flawed? No, it just means there are shitheads who do shitty things and they will use whatever book or ideology that gets them to their means.

What sickens me is that I see two sides in this thread right now. The conservatives who are hoping this guy flips muslim (see its dem crazy mooslims), and liberals who hope this guy flips Christian/right wing (see its those crazy religious rightwingnuts) - this kind of thinking is so incredibly toxic that it literally sickens me. I could care less what he flips. Because I know his ideology doesn't matter. If I were to create a religion based off a ham sammich I would place good money that one day some one would either kill themselves or some one else in the name of the holy ham sammich.

I see two categories of people who blow themselves or others up - those predesposed to it through genes, and those created by their socioeconomic surroundings growing up. Neither of which have anything to do with religion.[/QUOTE]
Uh, that's just dopey. Religion is a far greater motivator than socioeconomic surroundings. Communism petered out as a philosophy after less than a century of failure. The Thousand Year Reich didn't make it to it's fifteenth anniversary. But Islam, despite all of the failures, has been going strong and inspiring lunacy for 1400 years. And while Christianity has had its violent periods, the fact is that at its most violent, Christianity was far less violent and imperialistic than Islam.


What do you mean? The comment HawkGirl is referrin to specifically said it is half-comical/half-disturbing that those on CU cannot accept the fact that there are far right Christian crazies are just as capable of doing stuff like Oslo just as much as there are leftist crazies or Islamic crazies capable of doing it. Hawk took it as Muslims are evil. Which, if you ever actually met a Muslim, is not the case.
Actually, it's beginning to look like his Facebook page was hacked.

Before the attacks:

http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341c60bf53ef0153901eea7a970b-800wi

And after:

http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341c60bf53ef0153901eeb0c970b-800wi
Somebody sure wanted to make sure that he came off as a conservative and Christian (in English, no less).

Fundamentalist intepretations are usually dead on. That is, fundamentalists read the old texts in the way they were intended to be read.

I mean, does anyone really believe that the societies which produced texts such as the Bible and the Koran were tolerant and gentle?
More so than the ones that produced Das Kapital, the Communist Manifesto and Mein Kampf.

The Night Owl
07-23-2011, 06:41 PM
The difference is Christians today aren't mutilating , stoning, killing women over a Bible passage. Muslims are, in large numbers, as opposed to an act alone psycho like mcveigh.
Why some of u insist on creating a correlation between the two is just plane nutz.

Exodus 22:18
King James Version (KJV)

18Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.


Children are targets of Nigerian witch hunt

Evangelical pastors are helping to create a terrible new campaign of violence against young Nigerians. Children and babies branded as evil are being abused, abandoned and even murdered while the preachers make money out of the fear of their parents and their communities

The rainy season is over and the Niger Delta is lush and humid. This southern edge of West Africa, where Nigeria's wealth pumps out of oil and gas fields to bypass millions of its poorest people, is a restless place. In the small delta state of Akwa Ibom, the tension and the poverty has delivered an opportunity for a new and terrible phenomenon that is leading to the abuse and the murder of hundreds, perhaps thousands, of children. And it is being done in the name of Christianity

...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2007/dec/09/tracymcveigh.theobserver

So much for your theory.

Apocalypse
07-23-2011, 06:50 PM
Seems Drudge found out some more on him. And it turns out he's a Progressive LIBERAL!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pi3yn33s308

The Night Owl
07-23-2011, 06:53 PM
Seems Drudge found out some more on him. And it turns out he's a Progressive LIBERAL!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pi3yn33s308

PP Simmons? LOL! This is the same idiot who claimed that Obama is the Anti-Christ:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=raCRSjnT0Wc

Rockntractor
07-23-2011, 06:57 PM
Exodus 22:18
King James Version (KJV)

18Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.



http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2007/dec/09/tracymcveigh.theobserver

So much for your theory.

Could you at least make an attempt to stay with the topic?

The Night Owl
07-23-2011, 07:02 PM
Could you at least make an attempt to stay with the topic?

Hawkgirl claimed that Christians aren't abusing people and killing people in the name of Christianity. How can I counter that false claim without posting the article I posted?

Wei Wu Wei
07-23-2011, 07:07 PM
Keep it focused night owl this thread is about the evils of Islam

Rockntractor
07-23-2011, 07:13 PM
Keep it focused night owl this thread is about the evils of Islam

It isn't about witchcraft.
I do appreciate his effort in finding a 5 year old story from the heart of Africa, but I don't think it represents mainstream Christianity world wide. Several years ago it would have made a curious novelty thread.

Odysseus
07-23-2011, 07:54 PM
Hawkgirl claimed that Christians aren't abusing people and killing people in the name of Christianity. How can I counter that false claim without posting the article I posted?
Oh, dear, you won't be able to spread virulent anti-Christian propaganda in a totally unrelated thread. Oh, the humanity. :rolleyes:

Keep it focused night owl this thread is about the evils of Islam

Actually, it's about a violent attack in Norway, and who might have done it. I can understand your confusion, since you are normally in favor of violence committed by ideological totalitarians, but we haven't identified whether or not the violent thug in this case is a "progressive" or not. You'll just have to wait to find out which side you're on this time. :stfu1:

Apache
07-23-2011, 08:00 PM
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+19%3A27&version=KJV

Once AGAIN, you take the text out of context to suit your own purpose....



LOSER.....

Rockntractor
07-23-2011, 08:10 PM
Once AGAIN, you take the text out of context to suit your own purpose....



LOSER.....

At least it is an actual text, some of them are posting apocrypha as legitimate scripture now, that's why I told him to list his source. He is mad now, apparently that is asking too much.

Apache
07-23-2011, 08:33 PM
At least it is an actual text, some of them are posting apocrypha as legitimate scripture now, that's why I told him to list his source. He is mad now, apparently that is asking too much.

After his last stunt, I did some research on the verse....and he got it WRONG AGAIN!

Apache
07-23-2011, 08:37 PM
Hawkgirl claimed that Christians aren't abusing people and killing people in the name of Christianity. How can I counter that false claim without posting the article I posted?

You, sir, are a t/fool.....



I dealt with another one of your kind today. He's wondering why the flock he he couldn't best me...

Rockntractor
07-23-2011, 08:43 PM
After his last stunt, I did some research on the verse....and he got it WRONG AGAIN!

It was a parable and not a command from Jesus.

Apache
07-23-2011, 09:25 PM
It was a parable and not a command from Jesus.

It was, but notice how that part was left out....:rolleyes:

Sonnabend
07-23-2011, 09:54 PM
Begging the Colonel's pardon,but in the end, this is just another mass shooting in a gun free zone.

Sir.

NJCardFan
07-23-2011, 10:20 PM
The guy is a dirtbag. See, this is the difference between conservatives and liberals. You will soon see most conservatives and Christians condemning this guy and what he did. Liberals try to make excuses when it's one of their own who commits atrocities. Another difference, this is just ONE knucklehead acting alone. One. But if you want to trash all of Christianity based on the actions of one person, then there is no reason to carry on any kind of intelligent conversation.

Hawkgirl
07-24-2011, 12:07 AM
Exodus 22:18
King James Version (KJV)

18Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.



http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2007/dec/09/tracymcveigh.theobserver

So much for your theory.

LOL. Witchcraft in some African tribe is an example of christianity gone wild??


Try again sparky.

txradioguy
07-24-2011, 04:45 AM
The guy is a dirtbag. See, this is the difference between conservatives and liberals. You will soon see most conservatives and Christians condemning this guy and what he did. Liberals try to make excuses when it's one of their own who commits atrocities. Another difference, this is just ONE knucklehead acting alone. One. But if you want to trash all of Christianity based on the actions of one person, then there is no reason to carry on any kind of intelligent conversation.

QFT

txradioguy
07-24-2011, 04:49 AM
It was a parable and not a command from Jesus.

And because Dirty Bird has such a blind seething hatred of Christianity and was so in a hurry to bash Christians...yet again...he didn't stop one enough to see the difference between the two.

fettpett
07-24-2011, 08:02 AM
Exodus 22:18
King James Version (KJV)

18Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.



http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2007/dec/09/tracymcveigh.theobserver

So much for your theory.

:rolleyes: all you proved is that there are people out there that take advantage of others, especially those who have have a power differential over others. It's disgusting, however nothing new. But the difference is that this isn't a basic tenet of Christianity, in fact is the exact opposite.

bijou
07-24-2011, 08:56 AM
Some analysis of his writings:


The Norway attacks, 2011
This sadistic, barbaric attack must be one of the strangest terror attacks ever. One would never think, from the killer's online comments, that he was a mass murderer in waiting.

The killer was right-wing and anti-jihad, yes, but he was not a neo-Nazi (he was pro-Israel) or a white supremacist (he opposed the BNP because they are racist). He was Christian, but not a fanatic (he was pro-gay).

In fact he was apparently like me - liberal right. He was anti-racist, pro-gay and pro-Israel. So how on earth did someone like that become a terrorist against the West?

Perhaps he radically changed his politics since his last post to document.no in Oct 2010 (see below). Can we see any writings of his between Oct 2010 and July 2011?


The Norway attacks, 22 July 2011.
A right-wing, anti-jihad terrorist kills over 90 in Norway.
Worst terror attack on the West since Madrid in 2004.
Worst right-wing terror attack since Oklahoma in 1995.
An anti-Islamic terrorist kills more people than in all Islamic terror attacks on the West since Madrid combined.

It was sort of an attack on left-wingers, but a very strange one. It targeted children who had nothing to do with policy, and was incredibly sadistic, hunting them down and executing them close up. Even targeting the centre-left government is incredibly extreme - they support the Afghan War and the Libya War.

Note there have been Islamic terror attacks on Norway: William Nygaard in 1993, and Oslo synagogue in 2006.

The killer's mild, moderate, anti-jihad online comments

The killer Anders Behring Breivik
His comments at document.no.

The English-language extracts and screenshots here are from the Google translation of his comments on document.no.
Copies here and here and here and here.

The killer's online comments seem strangely mainstream. There is nothing to indicate a racist or fascist. And nothing to indicate a mass murderer in waiting.
He comes out against racism. From Google translate above: "Ethnocentric movements [like] BNP, National Front [are] not successful and will never be able to get over 10% support ... One can not fight racism (multikulti) with racism. ... Ethnocentrism is therefore the complete opposite of what we want to achieve."
Even his opposition to Islamic terror is rather moderate. He tries to say Islamism rather than Islam: "Islam (ism) has historically led to 300 million deaths".
One would expect a mass murderer to post more extreme comments. This is incredibly strange.

document.no statement on the killer: "That Behring Breivik classified [the Frankfurter School] as cultural marxists indicated that he did not really know cultural history. But that does not make him an extremist. Actually there is nothing in Behring Breivik's writings that indicates that he was violent. His thoughts about multicultural society are run of the mill on the political right, with some personal eccentric ideas, i.e. the use of the word conservatism. ... He argues against ethnocentrism and says the answer to racism cannot be another form of racism."
Far from being a member of extremist groups, he was a member of Norway's main conservative opposition party.

In contrast to jihad attacks, no one is cheering him on. He is a loner, with no supporters.
Deciding he had to go and kill left-wingers is his own interpretation of right-wing and anti-jihad material. The authors themselves do not agree with him. Even the people he links to do not support him.
Norway should execute this killer, but they won't. They have not executed anyone since 1948.

The killer praises Jihad Watch and Gates of Vienna
This sounds damning, but wait till you see who else he praises.


...http://markhumphrys.com/norway.attacks.html

Odysseus
07-24-2011, 10:23 AM
Exodus 22:18
King James Version (KJV)

18Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.



http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2007/dec/09/tracymcveigh.theobserver

So much for your theory.

Lucky for you that there's nothing about not suffering idiots to live.

SarasotaRepub
07-24-2011, 10:31 AM
Perhaps this guy was just a fucking nut.

JB
07-24-2011, 10:41 AM
Perhaps this guy was just a fucking nut.Don't ruin a good thread Occam. :vader:

Rockntractor
07-24-2011, 11:50 AM
Perhaps this guy was just a fucking nut.

Individuals no longer exist in their group think world.

fettpett
07-24-2011, 02:25 PM
Individuals no longer exist in their group think world.

We are Borg, You will be assimilated

http://wildmanhangout.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/ObamaBorg.jpg

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRr9i1bwLasju-rgBWUD7nG5zLoeEA7-Og6xcxq0Upf9Uiti1q_FQ

Apocalypse
07-24-2011, 07:18 PM
One has to say though, the Norway response to handle this was pathetic.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/07/24/us-norway-idUSL6E7IN00C20110724


Police said it took them an hour from when they were first alerted to stop the massacre....

An inadequate boat and a decision to await a special armed unit from Oslo, 45 km (28 miles) away, delayed the response.....

"When so many people and equipment were put into it, the boat started to take on water, so that the motor stopped," said Erik Berga, police operations chief....

SarasotaRepub
07-24-2011, 07:52 PM
One has to say though, the Norway response to handle this was pathetic.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/07/24/us-norway-idUSL6E7IN00C20110724

One cop with a pistol could have ended this. Pathetic indeed.

fettpett
07-24-2011, 08:38 PM
One cop with a pistol could have ended this. Pathetic indeed.

you'd have to FIND a police officer with a gun:rolleyes:

Sonnabend
07-24-2011, 09:29 PM
This is the bottom line

80 people were shot dead..and not ONE had a weapon or was able to fight back.

Not ONE.

That is the tragedy, and that is what no one will ever learn from. All it took was one armed man or woman....just one.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v374/beth_yeah_right_whatever/gunfreezone2.jpg

Rockntractor
07-24-2011, 09:52 PM
This is the bottom line

80 people were shot dead..and not ONE had a weapon or was able to fight back.

Not ONE.

That is the tragedy, and that is what no one will ever learn from. All it took was one armed man or woman....just one.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v374/beth_yeah_right_whatever/gunfreezone2.jpg

Yes sir, You're right but none of the libs will say it.

txradioguy
07-25-2011, 02:33 AM
One citizen with a pistol could have ended this. Pathetic indeed.

Fixt.

SarasotaRepub
07-25-2011, 08:56 AM
Authorities in Norway now believe that there were fewer victims in Friday's mass shooting than previously thought, they told CNN Monday.

Police spokesman Henning Holtaas would not say by how many the death toll would be reduced, saying only that details and the numbers of dead would be released at a news conference later in the day.

"It is important for Norwegian police to be 100% sure before releasing the names of the dead," he told CNN.



No offense but WTF is wrong with these A-Holes??? They can't count???? (http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/europe/07/25/norway.terror.attacks/index.html?hpt=hp_t1) :confused:

The Night Owl
07-25-2011, 05:23 PM
Beck: Youth Camp Attacked In Norway "Sounds A Little Like The Hitler Youth" (http://mediamatters.org/mmtv/201107250006)

What is wrong with Beck's brain?

Hawkgirl
07-25-2011, 05:40 PM
Beck: Youth Camp Attacked In Norway "Sounds A Little Like The Hitler Youth" (http://mediamatters.org/mmtv/201107250006)

What is wrong with Beck's brain?

You left out "who does a camp for kids that's all about politics"...who does/did that? Besides Hitler and Terrorist Training camps in Pockiston?

Last I checked, summer camp was about swimming, basketball, arts & crafts...He's not entirely off.

Apache
07-25-2011, 05:49 PM
Beck: Youth Camp Attacked In Norway "Sounds A Little Like The Hitler Youth" (http://mediamatters.org/mmtv/201107250006)

What is wrong with Beck's brain?

From media(taken out of context)matters?!?!

They are as honest about the Conservative media as you are about the Bible...:rolleyes:


Is your real name Hoover? Cuz you SUCK...

Rockntractor
07-25-2011, 06:32 PM
From media(taken out of context)matters?!?!

They are as honest about the Conservative media as you are about the Bible...:rolleyes:


Is your real name Hoover? Cuz you SUCK...

He is dishonest because he never has a legitimate argument, he is a waste of bandwidth.

Apocalypse
07-25-2011, 08:00 PM
Seems Norwegians are protesting their liberal laws now because of this event.


The fact that Norway’s maximum penalty for any crime is 21 years in prison is facing rising criticism in the wake of the twin attacks that killed 93 people, with many deeming the penalty too lax.

Ever since Norwegian media named 32-year-old Anders Behring Breivik as the prime suspect, calls have been growing for the maximum penalty under the Norwegian penal code to be extended.


If found guilty, Behring Breivik’s 21 years in prison would equal a penalty of 82 days per killing.


http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=10740700

82 days per person murdered. How draconian! We need to be more understanding to the needs of Breivik and reduce it to 50 days per person! (Liberal Point of View)

Molon Labe
07-25-2011, 08:16 PM
Wow....the socialist bullcrap is in full force today on this story. What a crock.

Seems now they are suggesting that Christian fundamentalist right wingers are on the verge of about a dozen of these slaughters here in the US. They think they are all about to go "McVeigh" on us .

The Night Owl
07-25-2011, 08:58 PM
From media(taken out of context)matters?!?!

They are as honest about the Conservative media as you are about the Bible...:rolleyes:


Is your real name Hoover? Cuz you SUCK...

Media Matters supplied complete audio of what Mr. Beck said. Feel free to supply context you think is missing.

The Night Owl
07-25-2011, 09:01 PM
You left out "who does a camp for kids that's all about politics"...who does/did that? Besides Hitler and Terrorist Training camps in Pockiston?

Last I checked, summer camp was about swimming, basketball, arts & crafts...He's not entirely off.

Christians?

History and Political Science Camp (http://www.youthoutreachcamps.com/SummerCamps/Camps/History.html)

Way too easy.

Rockntractor
07-25-2011, 09:05 PM
Christians?

History and Political Science Camp (http://www.youthoutreachcamps.com/SummerCamps/Camps/History.html)

Way too easy.

Now we are talking about summer camp in Pensacola FL?

Zathras
07-25-2011, 09:31 PM
Media Matters supplied complete audio of what Mr. Beck said. Feel free to supply context you think is missing.

What's missing is your argument against the rest of what Beck said in that audio Shit Bird. You morons on the left target one sentence in that audio and ignore the rest of what he said....as usual.

Of course, if you did try to argue against what he said you'd show yourself to be the idiot you really are, so I understand why a dishonest fucktard like yourself would avoid it like the plague.

Apache
07-25-2011, 10:02 PM
Media Matters supplied complete audio of what Mr. Beck said. Feel free to supply context you think is missing.


Beck: Youth Camp Attacked In Norway "Sounds A Little Like The Hitler Youth"


The headline, for starters...:rolleyes:

Odysseus
07-26-2011, 12:38 AM
Media Matters supplied complete audio of what Mr. Beck said. Feel free to supply context you think is missing.

Media Matters? Seriously?

The Night Owl
07-26-2011, 01:26 AM
Media Matters? Seriously?

Hitler Youth? Seriously?

Zathras
07-26-2011, 10:34 AM
Hitler Youth? Seriously?

Ignoring the rest of Beck's message? Seriously?

The Night Owl
07-26-2011, 11:03 AM
Ignoring the rest of Beck's message? Seriously?

I listened to everything Mr. Beck said. None of it changes or explains his comment about the camp being like Hitler Youth.

You're wasting your time trying excuse a comment which, mark my words, Beck will have to apologize for anyway. He is already getting rightly hammered in the media for what he said and it won't be long before he caves to pressure to apologize. Won't you look silly when even Beck admits his comment was stupid!

The Night Owl
07-26-2011, 11:06 AM
This is rich. A political camp for kids which was inspired by none other than Glenn Beck...

http://gawker.com/5812044/tea-party-summer-camp-the-experience-of-a-lifetime

Who does a camp for kids that's all about politics? Apparently, Glenn Beck fans do.

Zathras
07-26-2011, 01:59 PM
I listened to everything Mr. Beck said. None of it changes or explains his comment about the camp being like Hitler Youth.

You're wasting your time trying excuse a comment which, mark my words, Beck will have to apologize for anyway. He is already getting rightly hammered in the media for what he said and it won't be long before he caves to pressure to apologize. Won't you look silly when even Beck admits his comment was stupid!

And you're wasting your time trying to act superior and smug when you post here Shit Bird. Every time you do you look petty and small...then again you are petty and small being a leftist tool and Man Made Global Warming cultist.

Zathras
07-26-2011, 02:00 PM
http://derper.com/images/derp/Derp_Shark.jpg

Fixed for accuracy.

Odysseus
07-26-2011, 02:02 PM
Hitler Youth? Seriously?

Media Matters is a George Soros front. They routinely post disinformation to discredit conservatives. Until you find a reputable source, it's not worth discussing.

Wei Wu Wei
07-26-2011, 03:08 PM
Anders Breivik committed his terrorist attack in the hopes of triggering a war against Muslims in Europe, who he considered to be invaders, slowly conquoring the area through immigration and cultural erosion.

He blamed the Left-wing labor party, who he called "traitors", for enacting policies that encourage multi-culturalism, or as Breivik called it: "Cultural Marxism".

Externally, he viewed the threat on his society to be Islam. Internally, he viewed the threat to be "Cultural Marxism" and Multiculturalism.

The Night Owl
07-26-2011, 05:16 PM
Media Matters is a George Soros front. They routinely post disinformation to discredit conservatives. Until you find a reputable source, it's not worth discussing.

Get real. No one, including Glenn Beck, is disputing the validity of the audio posted at Media Matters. You're just dancing around the issue because you don't want to deal with what Beck said. I can't blame you.