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View Full Version : If you'd tax me more, I'd hire more people - as a small business owner



ralph wiggum
08-03-2011, 02:11 PM
One of the DUmbest posts I've seen in a very long time. My brain hurts from reading it.


BR_Parkway (1000+ posts) Mon Aug-01-11 07:25 PM
Original message
If you'd tax me more, I'd hire more people - as a small business owner (http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x1636139)

(and the same would apply to any major corporation) if my taxes were raised by a sufficient amount, then I may as well hire more people to do more of the stuff around the office.

If my taxes were raised $30,000 a year (not very likely in my income bracket, but just for an example) then I won't have the money in my pocket. I may as well make my life easier (and save some money) by hiring someone for that money and have them do more work that I could make money off off. Additionally, since the $30K is now deductible from my income, I may actually wind up paying less in taxes since they're based on the profit the business earns. And if all the wealthy are hiring, more people have more money to buy more of whatever product I make.

It's the simple reason that employment goes up in higher tax periods and drops every time we give the "job creators" tax cuts. Even my grandmother gets this concept, and she worked at home her whole life. But somehow these brilliant economists consistently can't get their heads around it.

This moron can't possibly own a business, and if he/she/it does, it has to be failing.


LonePirate (619 posts) Mon Aug-01-11 07:31 PM
Response to Original message
3. We need a smart Dem in DC to start trumpeting this scenario. Tax the corps until they start hiring.


TheKentuckian (1000+ posts) Mon Aug-01-11 07:33 PM
Response to Original message
6. Some actual sense and understanding of the actual dynamics in play
in a digestible and relatable form.

Thank you! I wish this would get a 100 thousand recs.


eridani (1000+ posts) Tue Aug-02-11 02:47 AM
Response to Original message
10. And the taxes could be used to hire people to do infrastructure repair and
--other public goods. The people who got hired would then be able to become your customers again.

I'm amazed that these people are smart enough to breathe.

One person gets it:


robcon (1000+ posts) Tue Aug-02-11 08:15 AM
Response to Original message
14. Stupidity of this thread is amazing.
People only hire if they will make more money when they add people.

Econ 101 would be your friend.


BR_Parkway (1000+ posts) Wed Aug-03-11 01:16 PM
Response to Reply #14
18. If the choice came down to paying it in taxes or paying the same to add
someone to either make my life easier as an employer or add to the business bottom line - then any business owner is going to spend the money on adding someone

It's all in how the tax codes are written, especially the ones now that don't disfavor companies adding workers over seas

Econ 101 - you'd get an F, Civics a D-


Imajika (1000+ posts) Tue Aug-02-11 08:24 AM
Response to Original message
15. You know your free to pay more taxes all on your own right?
There is absolutely nothing stopping you from paying whatever additional amount of taxes that you wish. You can even specifically write a check to pay down the deficit - just make it out to the Bureau of the Public Debt. There is nothing stopping you from over paying, in fact you have several options to do so.


tblue37 (1000+ posts) Tue Aug-02-11 04:21 PM
Response to Original message
17. And if your business involves selling some product or service
Edited on Tue Aug-02-11 04:23 PM by tblue37
to customers, then the fact that more people are employed and making enough money to purchase goods and services means that business will probably improve. Also, with more revenue, the government could improve infrastructure. Besides, if the government borrows less to meet its obligations, then interest rates go down.

And if more people can make an honest living, then those people, too, end up paying taxes rather than relying on the social safety net (what is left of it), so that simultaneously increases government revenue and reduces government expenditures as well.

Furthermore, with more people able to make a decent living honestly, crime goes down, which shows up in all sorts of ways in savings for businesses, not to mention just making life in this society more pleasant all around.

Win-win-win-win-win-win-win. . . .

But the real problem is related to the tragedy of the commons. The wealthy and powerful think only in the short-term, so all they care about is paying less in taxes right now, not in the long-term benefits to paying their fair share (benefits for themselves, for others, and for society as a whole).

One other major factor, of course, is embodied in the statement by the corrupt businessman villain (played by Robert Culp) in Superman III: "It is not enough that I win--everyone else must lose!"

Dan D. Doty
08-03-2011, 02:24 PM
God, just when you thought you heard the dumnest thing ever, someone comes by and sets a new record :rolleyes:

Sometimes wonder if there's some secert government lab that's bio engineering stupidier humans, becauce nature can't be making this many.

Evolution doesn't take prisoners - The Grim Adventures Of Billy And Mandy.

What's next on this " Genuis's" hit parade?

" I can only like people who punch me in the throat." :rotfl:

txradioguy
08-03-2011, 02:54 PM
This moron can't possibly own a business, and if he/she/it does, it has to be failing.

Or perhaps he's Government contractor.

megimoo
08-03-2011, 02:59 PM
God, just when you thought you heard the dumnest thing ever, someone comes by and sets a new record :rolleyes:

Sometimes wonder if there's some secert government lab that's bio engineering stupidier humans, becauce nature can't be making this many.

Evolution doesn't take prisoners - The Grim Adventures Of Billy And Mandy.

What's next on this " Genuis's" hit parade?

" I can only like people who punch me in the throat." :rotfl:

Lets keep an Eye of this critter...It Could be the next John Maynard Keynes that Obama's has been looking for....

Cseeman
08-03-2011, 03:51 PM
I am sooo scared that someone reading this posting is going to think it makes sense. I am going to explain why it does not make sense.

1) When you pay someone $30,000 that's $30,000 of cash exiting your bank account. but the tax benefits of the cost of business such as labor are only equal to the percentage of taxes paid.

2) You do not hire someone that is not going to produce efficiently or profit for you. To hire someone just to hire someone adds unnecessary management costs to the business.

the director
08-03-2011, 04:04 PM
I am sooo scared that someone reading this posting is going to think it makes sense. I am going to explain why it does not make sense.

1) When you pay someone $30,000 that's $30,000 of cash exiting your bank account. but the tax benefits of the cost of business such as labor are only equal to the percentage of taxes paid.

2) You do not hire someone that is not going to produce efficiently or profit for you. To hire someone just to hire someone adds unnecessary management costs to the business.

I have a few friends who own or are working at a small business. Universally, they say the new health care bill and the possibility of tax increases prevented them from hiring new people because they do not know how much a new employee is going to cost. They have the extra work, they have the cash, they have the desire, but they can't do any form of cost analysis because there is so much uncertainty.

Many businesses are running at cut-throat prices with very small margins of profit. If a new employee ends up costing the business more than projected, the business will either have to fire the employee (waste of cash) or become uncompetitive (have to raise prices to maintain profit margin) or go out of business (everyone loses their job).

Do these morons think small business owners are running sweat shops with 50% profit margins and are laughing at the working class while wiping crud off their thousand dollar italian shoes or something?

djones520
08-03-2011, 04:14 PM
The amount of stupid in that post actually made me twitch.

Undies
08-03-2011, 04:23 PM
Teh Stupid....It made my head hurt.

michaelsean
08-03-2011, 05:01 PM
The OP from the DUmp has to think an employee's pay is a tax credit rather than a deduction.

BadCat
08-03-2011, 05:13 PM
I have a few friends who own or are working at a small business. Universally, they say the new health care bill and the possibility of tax increases prevented them from hiring new people because they do not know how much a new employee is going to cost. They have the extra work, they have the cash, they have the desire, but they can't do any form of cost analysis because there is so much uncertainty.

Many businesses are running at cut-throat prices with very small margins of profit. If a new employee ends up costing the business more than projected, the business will either have to fire the employee (waste of cash) or become uncompetitive (have to raise prices to maintain profit margin) or go out of business (everyone loses their job).

Do these morons think small business owners are running sweat shops with 50% profit margins and are laughing at the working class while wiping crud off their thousand dollar italian shoes or something?

Why yes, yes they do think that way.

Madisonian
08-03-2011, 06:22 PM
If you pay someone $30,000, that is just the start.
Add...
6.20% FICA ($1,860)
1.45% Medicare ($435)
6.20% FUTA ($435) (first 7,000 and variable depending on state UI paid)
Workman's Compensation (Depends on business classification and claim history but figure about $500 minimum)

So just the required add-ons have cost another $3,230 so our 30k worker is now 33,230.
If your company is required to provide Obamacare, add another $2,400 or so for that at a minimum. Even if you can get the employee to co-pay it will probably cost you 200 a month.

The employee will also add to your overhead for accounting, payroll, equipment, tools or fixtures, etc, etc.

This is with no benefits, no paid days off, and no return on the investment of the employee.

Constitutionally Speaking
08-03-2011, 09:06 PM
Oh my.


I don't even know where to begin. I am afraid I'll get some of that stupid on me if I even touch this one.



This WAYYY beyond jaw - droppingly stupid.

Adam Wood
08-03-2011, 11:56 PM
If you would just steal more of my televisions, I would donate more to charity.



Makes about as much sense.

CueSi
08-04-2011, 12:27 AM
Where they do this at?

I need to find this magical land. Maybe they issue every single lady over 30 her own personal Gerard Butler no matter how many cats she owns. :p

~QC

AmPat
08-04-2011, 09:37 AM
Uggg.

Atlas Shrugged.:(