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View Full Version : Obama Tax Plan Would Ask More of Millionaires



bijou
09-17-2011, 07:02 PM
President Obama on Monday will call for a new minimum tax rate for individuals making more than $1 million a year to ensure that they pay at least the same percentage of their earnings as middle-income taxpayers, according to administration officials.


With a special joint Congressional committee starting work to reach a bipartisan budget deal by late November, the proposal adds a new and populist feature to Mr. Obama’s effort to raise the political pressure on Republicans to agree to higher revenues from the wealthy in return for Democrats’ support of future cuts from Medicare and Medicaid.

Mr. Obama, in a bit of political salesmanship, will call his proposal the “Buffett Rule,” in a reference to Warren E. Buffett, the billionaire investor who has complained repeatedly that the richest Americans generally pay a smaller share of their income in federal taxes than do middle-income workers, because investment gains are taxed at a lower rate than wages. ... http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/18/us/politics/obama-tax-plan-would-ask-more-of-millionaires.html

lacarnut
09-17-2011, 07:33 PM
Looks like Obama is playing politics cause he does not provide a rate or ANY details. In other words, he is a lying POS and wants to repeal the Bush tax cuts.

It would be nice if the IRS would go after Federal government employees who owe hundreds of millions of dollars in back taxes. Liberals think taxes apply to the other person but not to them. Damn hypocrites.

DumbAss Tanker
09-17-2011, 07:57 PM
Wonder how Warren and his ilk will like this, which if as advertised would mean effectively no special capital gains rate for them? I bet they'll be praying for the GOP to stop it but they'll keep writing checks to the Dems.

Sow the wind, reap the whirlwind.

AmPat
09-18-2011, 11:01 AM
Obama promises???:confused: Is that code for Obama continues his lying ways?:mad:

I guess O Blah Blah and fellow fools believe that "the rich" will just suck up the added expense of his tax idiocy and not pass the cost along to us poor folks?:confused::rolleyes:

DumbAss Tanker
09-18-2011, 02:51 PM
Well, it would basically devastate the capital markets. Those markets are not really built on individual investors worth less than a million bucks, the action is all very large funds (Pension funds, mutual funds, etc.) and very wealthy individuals. Anyone can play but it's only the big players that make the market. This proposal would certainly take the wealthy individuals out of the mix, and depending on how it was written, possibly the institutional investors as well.

Nubs
09-19-2011, 09:53 AM
Nothing like going from the double taxation of dividends to triple taxation of dividends.

Odysseus
09-19-2011, 06:42 PM
Now, here is something that I find odd: Obama is asking congress to pass a bill that would cite a group of people who are "not paying their fair share" and impose punitive tax rates on them. That sounds suspiciously like a Bill of Attainder, which is when someone is deemed to be guilty of a crime by virtue of having been voted guilty by the legislature. It was one of the abuses of the crown that incensed the colonists, which is why they barred it explicitly in the Constitution.

Anyone else think that this is grounds for a suit against it if it were passed?

Hawkgirl
09-19-2011, 07:16 PM
If his agenda passes Congress, more money will just go overseas and into offshore accounts.

the director
09-19-2011, 07:27 PM
Obama promises???:confused: Is that code for Obama continues his lying ways?:mad:

I guess O Blah Blah and fellow fools believe that "the rich" will just suck up the added expense of his tax idiocy and not pass the cost along to us poor folks?:confused::rolleyes:


Well, it would basically devastate the capital markets. Those markets are not really built on individual investors worth less than a million bucks, the action is all very large funds (Pension funds, mutual funds, etc.) and very wealthy individuals. Anyone can play but it's only the big players that make the market. This proposal would certainly take the wealthy individuals out of the mix, and depending on how it was written, possibly the institutional investors as well.


If his agenda passes Congress, more money will just go overseas and into offshore accounts.

This is a half-serious, half-devil's advocate question, but perhaps someone should sit the rich down and encourage them to not be selfish pricks and realize that the difference in standard of living between earning 10 million a year and 9.5 million a year is infinitesimally small, and that their threat to move the money offshore, or ship jobs overseas, or pass the costs down to the middle class is rediculously infuriating?

Hawkgirl
09-19-2011, 08:32 PM
the difference in standard of living between earning 10 million a year and 9.5 million a year is infinitesimally small, and that their threat to move the money offshore, or ship jobs overseas, or pass the costs down to the middle class is rediculously infuriating?


What gives you the right to take his money, Robin Hood?

the director
09-19-2011, 08:38 PM
What gives you the right to take his money, Robin Hood?

Unlike other Robin Hoods, I have a British accent.

Hawkgirl
09-19-2011, 09:13 PM
Unlike other Robin Hoods, I have a British accent.


Do you dress british?

ABC in Georgia
09-19-2011, 10:16 PM
Do you dress british?

Don't know how "the director" dresses, but found a pic of our very own Robin Hood!



http://i1117.photobucket.com/albums/k592/ABC160/obamahood.jpg



If only he too, were a legend ... but unfortunately for us in the US ... he is all too real!

~ ABC

(Ps ~ sorry about your job search, better luck next time in finding something more to your liking!)

Starbuck
09-19-2011, 10:51 PM
This is a half-serious, half-devil's advocate question, but perhaps someone should sit the rich down and encourage them to not be selfish pricks and realize that the difference in standard of living between earning 10 million a year and 9.5 million a year is infinitesimally small, and that their threat to move the money offshore, or ship jobs overseas, or pass the costs down to the middle class is rediculously infuriating?

May be " rediculously infuriating", but it is his money. He earned it.

And those people will not threaten to move money to where it is safe. They'll do it.

AmPat
09-19-2011, 11:03 PM
This is a half-serious, half-devil's advocate question, but perhaps someone should sit the rich down and encourage them to not be selfish pricks and realize that the difference in standard of living between earning 10 million a year and 9.5 million a year is infinitesimally small, and that their threat to move the money offshore, or ship jobs overseas, or pass the costs down to the middle class is rediculously infuriating?
1. You don't punish the rich without affecting the poor. Enter O Blah Blah's ongoing 9.1% jobless rate.
2. It doesn't matter what somebody earns, taxing success is a self defeating game.
3. This country wasn't founded on class warfare and making "the rich" the boogeyman is seditious.
4. Confiscating 100% of the evil rich people's money would not satiate the piggish appetite of the DIMoRATS (or any other party's) and they will always need more. The problem is spending, not tax revenue.

Change the narrative. No more money and no more DAMN PROGRAMS!:mad:

the director
09-19-2011, 11:12 PM
May be "rediculously infuriating", but it is his money. He earned it.

And those people will not threaten to move money to where it is safe. They'll do it.

When individuals on this website wonder 1) why there are liberals and 2) why there is so much hate directed towars the rich, this would be a good starting point.

You and Hawkgirl are absolutely correct - it is their money and they earned it. However, one has to question the patriotism and Christianity of a group of individuals willing to ship money overseas or squeeze a group of people who are already hurting.

I agree with the sentiment here, the government has to stop wasting and spending out of control, and taxing the rich isn't going to solve the problem. But not raising taxes because the rich will act like a spoiled brat is not legitimate justification, no matter how you all try to spin it.

Rockntractor
09-19-2011, 11:19 PM
Nothin like exploiting good old class envy, did you ever wonder why thou shalt not covet is part of the Ten Commandments? This is a problem as old as dirt.

the director
09-19-2011, 11:32 PM
Nothin like exploiting good old class envy, did you ever wonder why thou shalt not covet is part of the Ten Commandments? This is a problem as old as dirt.

Meh. Jesus was all about helping the poor and chilling with tax collectors. No I'm not one of those "Jesus was a socialist" kind of weirdos and I'm not a overly religious guy, but I do know that Jesus wasn't kicking it with the rich and well-to-do.

I do see what you are saying though, it is a slippery slope. Take 3% now, 5% down the road, etc etc.

Starbuck
09-19-2011, 11:43 PM
When individuals on this website wonder 1) why there are liberals and 2) why there is so much hate directed towars the rich, this would be a good starting point.

You and Hawkgirl are absolutely correct - it is their money and they earned it. However, one has to question the patriotism and Christianity of a group of individuals willing to ship money overseas or squeeze a group of people who are already hurting.

I agree with the sentiment here, the government has to stop wasting and spending out of control, and taxing the rich isn't going to solve the problem. But not raising taxes because the rich will act like a spoiled brat is not legitimate justification, no matter how you all try to spin it.

Maybe you're only looking at a portion of the equation:
Companies (people) move jobs overseas because they are unable to compete here in the U.S. When profits are taxed at the 34% corporate rate (the highest in the world) and the government talks about it not being enough, then companies start making complex plans to move elsewhere.
You don't think they want to be operating companies in 4 different time zones, do you? Surely you can't believe that companies just enjoy having language and cultural difficulties. It's work. Money was borrowed to establish these companies and money must be made to keep them going.

For you, it's too late. You already believe that "the rich" are acting like "spoiled brats". You've already become envious and already feel that you cannot succeed to the level of being rich so you want to take the rich's money away. As if that would solve something. It won't. They'll still have all their money. Only now they won't be able to hire you.:(

Sonnabend
09-20-2011, 12:47 AM
You and Hawkgirl are absolutely correct - it is their money and they earned it. However, one has to question the patriotism and Christianity of a group of individuals willing to ship money overseas

Because it is their money and no one else's.


patriotism and Christianity

Straw man and irrelevant. You do not have a "right" to other people's money

Full stop

Starbuck
09-20-2011, 11:10 AM
When individuals on this website wonder 1) why there are liberals and 2) why there is so much hate directed towars the rich, this would be a good starting point.

You and Hawkgirl are absolutely correct - it is their money and they earned it. However, one has to question the patriotism and Christianity of a group of individuals willing to ship money overseas or squeeze a group of people who are already hurting.

I agree with the sentiment here, the government has to stop wasting and spending out of control, and taxing the rich isn't going to solve the problem. But not raising taxes because the rich will act like a spoiled brat is not legitimate justification, no matter how you all try to spin it.

Here's the headline:
IRS Data Show Most Millionaires Pay Taxes at Higher Rate Than Middle Class

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/09/20/irs-data-show-most-millionaires-pay-taxes-at-higher-rate-than-middle-class/#ixzz1YVPUVTNz

Read the article; it's chock full of information, such as this:
Data compiled by the nonpartisan Tax Policy Center show households pulling in more than $1 million pay about 29.1 percent of their income in federal taxes. By contrast, households making between $50,000 and $75,000 pay about 15 percent.

And those are the facts.

Hawkgirl
09-20-2011, 04:19 PM
But not raising taxes because the rich will act like a spoiled brat is not legitimate justification, no matter how you all try to spin it.


It's not about being "a spoiled brat". It's about being profitable. If they are profitable, they will HIRE. You obviously never owned a business. Also, the wealthy are big philanthropists. They do give money to charity regularly. It's infuriating when the government TAKES it though. I'm all about capitalism. It's what this country was founded upon. The government should stay out of the private sector.

If you want business back in the USA, REDUCE the tax rate. Frankly, I'm tired of buying things made elsewhere.

lacarnut
09-20-2011, 05:36 PM
You and Hawkgirl are absolutely correct - it is their money and they earned it. However, one has to question the patriotism and Christianity of a group of individuals willing to ship money overseas or squeeze a group of people who are already hurting.

.

You must have fallen off the hay wagon on your head cause questioning an individuals patriotism or Christianity by shipping a business or money overseas is just plain nuts. A business that can not compete here will or should go overseas. Soylndra is a prime example. Their costs were more than what they were selling the solar panels for. Plus, the Chinese were making them for much less. The rich have off-shored millions or trillions because of US Tax laws. The more our government tries to take from the rich, the more they will try to retain their wealth. The government is the culprit rather than the rich. Quit trying to gouge them and they will bring their money back here. This year, inheritance tax has been reinstated. That will drive money offshore. The Yanks owner saved his heirs a half billion dollars by dieing last year. 45% inheritance tax is way off the wall. Government greed at its finest.

The luxury tax years ago was a big flop. A tax on expensive cars, yachts, jewelry, etc did not bring in half the revenue the idiot in DC thought it would. The rich quit buying Porsches , Lambos and yachts. Small boat builders in the northeast went out of business. You see, attacking the wealthy has never worked. They will just pull in their horns, invest less, hire less, spend less resulting in the economy remaining stagnant. That is what is happening today. Obama is anti-government and soaking the rich is his answer.

Tipsycatlover
09-21-2011, 09:10 AM
A few years ago California had a Millionaire's tax on the wealthy. In the first year 7,000 millionaires left the state.

It is unpatriotic for the government to take the property of a citizen? Is there anything in Christianity that supports one person taking the property or earnings of someone else? Jesus didn't throw the rich people out of the temple. He threw the TAX collectors out of the temple.

KhrushchevsShoe
09-21-2011, 01:05 PM
A few years ago California had a Millionaire's tax on the wealthy. In the first year 7,000 millionaires left the state.

It is unpatriotic for the government to take the property of a citizen? Is there anything in Christianity that supports one person taking the property or earnings of someone else? Jesus didn't throw the rich people out of the temple. He threw the TAX collectors out of the temple.

This right here is quite a doozy.

lacarnut
09-21-2011, 01:47 PM
This right here is quite a doozy.

Only in your limited intellectual resources. :eek:

Odysseus
09-21-2011, 05:39 PM
This right here is quite a doozy.

If, by doozy, you mean that it's false, you're wrong. California's millionaire tax resulted in a mass migration of millionaires, and the experiment has been repeated elsewhere, with similar results:


High taxes make it more difficult to attract high-income people to a state. In Maryland, according to the comptroller’s office, the creation of a new 6.25 percent tax bracket for those with $1 million in taxable income resulted in one-third fewer millionaires in the state. While the faltering economy certainly played a role in the decline, some Maryland millionaires moved out of the state due to the tax hike. California’s experience shows that even before the housing market collapse, high-income citizens were already fleeing high-tax states in droves.

Relying on a small number of taxpayers for a large portion of tax revenue can lead to larger budget deficits than experienced by states with broader and flatter tax systems. In Rich States, Poor States, Laffer and Moore explain how California helped create its own budget mess. “When California faced a $14 billion deficit in 2003, a major cause of this was ‘millionaire migration’ due to the high top income tax rate (9.3 percent). Out of the 25,000 or so seven-figure-income families, more than 5,000 left in the early 2000s, and the loss of their tax payments accounted for about half the budget hole.”

The income tax hikes themselves are not the only reason successful residents leave or choose not to locate in these states. As important is the high tax rate compared to other states or countries. The gap between low- and high-tax states can mean a difference in take-home pay of as much as 10 percent.

http://heartland.org/policy-documents/research-commentary-taxing-rich-will-bankrupt-your-state

These are, of course, inconvenient facts for you to acknowledge, so I don't expect you to do so, but it still had to be said.

Tipsycatlover
09-21-2011, 06:16 PM
The same thing happened in New York so it same policies have the same results wherever they happen.

Zathras
09-21-2011, 06:19 PM
This right here is quite a doozy.

Only to you, oh gutless one. There is nothing more mobile that a rich person and their money.