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Tipsycatlover
09-27-2011, 06:59 PM
http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-/world/10356471/iran-says-could-deploy-navy-near-u-s-coast-report/

TEHRAN (Reuters) - Iran raised the prospect on Tuesday of sending military ships close to the United States' Atlantic coast, in what would be a major escalation of tensions between the long-standing adversaries.

I wonder if this will come as a great surprise to Ron Paul who claims that Iran doesn't have a navy at all?

Bailey
09-27-2011, 07:14 PM
Wtf they have small missle boats and very old destroyers sold to them in the 70. Lol the navy needs some target practice

Novaheart
09-27-2011, 09:40 PM
This would be a wonderful opportunity for some diplomatic fun and mischief.

If Iran sends war ships to visit the US, we should send cruise ships to meet them or outfit a ship for recreation and entertainment. Maybe offer to shuttle the Persians into port for some down home cooking and a stay at Jacksonville.

djones520
09-28-2011, 02:19 AM
Wtf they have small missle boats and very old destroyers sold to them in the 70. Lol the navy needs some target practice

Actually, they do have a new class of Frigates their building, one which entered service last year.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_frigate_Jamaran

I would expect that to be the ship that makes the trip. Though with only 4 true Frigates in their whole fleet, I don't know what this "strong presence" is that their talking about.

Sonnabend
09-28-2011, 04:27 AM
Have them met by a carrier with full air wings, then have those squadrons do a fast pass over the Iranians.

At 100 feet :p

ironhorsedriver
09-28-2011, 04:49 AM
Yea, I bet our Navy is quaking in their Boon dockers..

Bailey
09-28-2011, 06:30 AM
Actually, they do have a new class of Frigates their building, one which entered service last year.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_frigate_Jamaran

I would expect that to be the ship that makes the trip. Though with only 4 true Frigates in their whole fleet, I don't know what this "strong presence" is that their talking about.

I read they only have one replenishment ship that could go the distance lol

txradioguy
09-28-2011, 08:36 AM
Actually, they do have a new class of Frigates their building, one which entered service last year.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_frigate_Jamaran

I would expect that to be the ship that makes the trip. Though with only 4 true Frigates in their whole fleet, I don't know what this "strong presence" is that their talking about.

IMHO it's more psychological and message sending than anything.

txradioguy
09-28-2011, 08:43 AM
Have them met by a carrier with full air wings, then have those squadrons do a fast pass over the Iranians.

At 100 feet :p

Nah if you REALLY want to make them piss in their dungarees:

http://blogs.amctv.com/movie-blog/Hunt_For_Red_October_Glenn.jpg

"Re-verify our range to target... one ping only"


:D

namvet
09-28-2011, 10:29 AM
their just blowing hot air out their ass's. the Nazi's tried that in operation drumbeat and wound up rusting on the bottom

DumbAss Tanker
09-28-2011, 10:36 AM
I read they only have one replenishment ship that could go the distance lol

I look at this as an opportunity to sell them fuel, at a substantial mark-up of course.

:cool:

namvet
09-28-2011, 10:41 AM
what replenishment ship ???

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-vnCC1-v2grE/ToGg3ei5s0I/AAAAAAABKYk/ABPvZNIJmsg/s1600/PDS%2B27%2B%25285%2529.jpg

Novaheart
09-28-2011, 10:43 AM
I look at this as an opportunity to sell them fuel, at a substantial mark-up of course.

:cool:

Not to mention there would probably be a certain Cold War Effect, ie the Iranian ship gets within sight of US and sailors start disappearing in the night as they swim for it. US civilians go out in small craft to pick up "liberty sidestrokers".

Novaheart
09-28-2011, 10:44 AM
what replenishment ship ???

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-vnCC1-v2grE/ToGg3ei5s0I/AAAAAAABKYk/ABPvZNIJmsg/s1600/PDS%2B27%2B%25285%2529.jpg

Come on now, we don't want to be seen as swatting the Argentine Navy.

Starbuck
09-28-2011, 10:46 AM
I read they only have one replenishment ship that could go the distance lol

A crucial point. More than one Army/Navy outran its supply line and paid a terrible price.

Molon Labe
09-28-2011, 11:21 AM
Not to mention there would probably be a certain Cold War Effect, ie the Iranian ship gets within sight of US and sailors start disappearing in the night as they swim for it. US civilians go out in small craft to pick up "liberty sidestrokers".

lol at the Iranian Navy. Anyone who thinks they are a threat is living in fantasy land. This news is comedy gold.


Check out how the US handled these guys by reading about the instances in the Persian gulf in 1980s....
Those little puddle boats didn't last too long.

namvet
09-28-2011, 11:26 AM
Come on now, we don't want to be seen as swatting the Argentine Navy.

they sold it to Iran and forgot to close the scuttle hatch

Bailey
09-28-2011, 11:30 AM
Well this could be a business opportunity for nova to "entertain" their navy men. :D

fettpett
09-28-2011, 11:43 AM
don't they have a couple Kilo's as well?

AmPat
09-28-2011, 04:10 PM
This would be a wonderful opportunity for some diplomatic fun and mischief.

If Iran sends war ships to visit the US, we should send cruise ships to meet them or outfit a ship for recreation and entertainment. Maybe offer to shuttle the Persians into port for some down home cooking and a stay at Jacksonville.

Only if they shower first. :cool:

Novaheart
09-28-2011, 04:19 PM
Only if they shower first. :cool:

Those must have been some stinky people you came into contact with. I don't know what the determining factor is there. I went to school with a lot of Iranians before the fall of the Shah, and can't recall them being stinky. Given to an excess of cologne, yes (Disco). But cologne doesn't cover stink.

Mind you, I'll take your word for it as I have no desire to get close enough to find out.

Odysseus
09-28-2011, 04:22 PM
Far be it for me to dispel the general hilarity, but a couple of interesting points were brought up at a conference this week, but before I reprint that, a couple of thoughts:

Iran's declaration may not refer to the United States. Iran's ships have been playing in the Mediterranean for a few months now, and are especially prone to conducting operations in the Red Sea. Among our allies with major ports and extensive vulnerabilities within the reach of those vessels are Spain, France, Italy, Greece and Israel. The Saudis are also considered a critical enemy by Iran. If we're the Great Satan, Saudi Arabia is the Great Apostasy. Also, Kuwait is a possible target. That's the potential threat. As for the bigger picture:


September 27, 2011
The existential threat from Iran
Stuart Kaufman

Last week, I attended a symposium that clarified for me exactly why Iran is the single greatest existential threat to the United States and the free world today.

The symposium panel consisted not of some off-the-wall Cassandras, but rather of some the soberest most serious thinkers in the field of national security. Among them were:

Lt. General (ret.) Thomas McInerney, Air Force; member of the Iran Policy Committee;
Brigadier General (ret.) Ken Chrosniak, U.S. Army War College, Bronze Star recipient;
Reza Kahlili, Ex-CIA spy in the Iranian Revolutionary Guards; author of the award-winning book A Time To Betray; Instructor at the Joint Counterintelligence Training Academy of the Dept. of Defense;
Lt. Col. (ret.) Tony Shaffer, U.S. Army, Bronze Star recipient and Senior Intelligence Officer in the Defense Intelligence Agency;
Clare Lopez, strategic policy and intelligence expert on national defense, Islam, Iran, and counterterrorism issues.

I put these names up front to demonstrate that this is not just me trying to stir up the pot.

The reason why the danger is so clear and imminent is because of a confluence of two facts that make up the perfect storm:

1. The nature of the version of Shiite Islam to which the government of Iran adheres; and

2. a natural phenomenon called EMP (electromagnetic pulse).

I will deal with them one at a time.

1. The nature of the version of Shiite Islam to which the government of Iran adheres
The mullahs in Iran practice a particularly virulent brand of Shiite Islam. They believe in the return of 'the 12th Imam,' known as the Mahdi. The Mahdi can best be understood as the Shiite messiah. They believe that when the Mahdi returns he will usher in a 1000-year age of justice, and that the Mahdi will come in response to a condition of chaos and destruction. The added fillip to this is that they believe that they themselves can cause this to happen by creating the necessary chaos and destruction (remember, I am not arguing that this should make sense to you. The point is that it makes sense to them).

2. EMP (electromagnetic pulse)
EMP is a natural phenomenon created by the fact that electrons can be "shocked" into spinning out of control, interacting with other electrons. (Please continue reading. This is very simply presented and easily followed). Therefore, a single nuclear weapon exploded at high altitude above the United States will interact with the Earth's atmosphere, ionosphere, and magnetic field to produce an electromagnetic pulse (EMP) radiating down which will "short-circuit" whatever electric grid it encounters. In simple terms, if a single nuclear bomb is detonated at the appropriate altitude above the mid west, it will DESTROY the entire electric grid of the US, thus cutting off the lifeblood of the US economy. Just to be clear, if this happens, the electricity system won't be capable of being turned back on. It will be finished. Think of it, no lights, no manufacturing, no banking system, no.... nothing - all will be destroyed! There is no way that the United States can survive such an attack as a functioning society.

Now, ask yourselves if you think that those who fall under factor #1 above (Mahdist Shiite Muslims), in order to create the conditions for the return of the Mahdi, would hesitate to resort to factor #2 above (creating an EMP by detonating a nuclear weapon)?

Remember, this is not me saying this. This is General McInerney, General Chrosniak, Reza Khalili, etc. who are saying this.

The US government accepts this as fact, but they don't make a big deal about it because they don't want to create a panic. They are also concerned that the Jon Stewarts and Stephen Colberts of the world will satirize it into oblivion (remember "Star Wars").

The possibility of weaponizing EMP is a problem that will be with us for a very long time, but at a relatively nominal cost we already have the technology to "harden" the electric grid of the United States. This (national security) is a function given by the Constitution to the Federal government, as opposed to (among other things) subsidizing public broadcasting or distributing cheese. We need to act now to put this protection in place.

The immediate, existential situation of Iran can and must be addressed immediately. Fortunately, the mullahs do not have the support of the people of Iran. Furthermore, the vast majority of the Iranian people (this according to the panelists at the symposium) are not Mahdists. If we had supported the revolt in Iran two years ago, we might very well have a friendly Iranian government in power now. It is not too late. There is an incipient revolutionary underway in Iran. We must help that revolution to occur.

There is so much more to say on this subject. For more information, I encourage you to go to: http://www.empactamerica.org/index.php.

EMPactAmerica is comprised of an extraordinary group of people. They are not asking for anything from you except your attention.

Please consider what you have just read, become aware of the seriousness of the peril in which we find ourselves, and let others know.


Page Printed from: http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2011/09/the_existential_threat_from_iran.html at September 28, 2011 - 03:16:26 PM CDT

namvet
09-28-2011, 04:42 PM
this is just smoke filled coffee house crap. the mongolids in Iran have a loaded gun at their heads and they know it. I think its called saber rattling

Odysseus
09-28-2011, 04:49 PM
this is just smoke filled coffee house crap. the mongolids in Iran have a loaded gun at their heads and they know it. I think its called saber rattling

Maybe, but I get a newsletter called Nightwatch, which features some very interesting commentary. They discussed this in last night's edition. Here's the text:


Iran: Navy Commander Admiral Sayyari told the press on 27 September, "Just like the global hegemony that is present near our marine borders, we also plan to establish a strong presence near US marine borders," The US has deployed several fleets in the Persian Gulf. He said that the deployment of Iranian naval "fleets" (sic) in the Gulf of Aden and the Red Sea as well as the presence of its submarines in the Red Sea marked an honor for the Iranian nation and other Muslim countries. Admiral Sayyari reminded that the Navy started deployment in the far seas following an order by the Supreme Leader of the Islamic Revolution, Ayatollah Seyed Ali Khamenei. The Supreme Leader had ordered the Navy to be turned into a "strategic force." He cited the continued deployment of Iranian warships and submarines in international waters and the high-seas, and reiterated that the Navy would "continue its presence in the Mediterranean Sea, the Suez Canal, South of the Indian Ocean and the high seas." "And now the Navy plans to widen its presence in the high seas in a bid to protect the country's interests and provide security for the country's shipping lines." Sayyari had also earlier this year announced that the Navy plans to deploy fleets of warships in the Atlantic Ocean. "In case of a final approval, the Army's naval fleet will be dispatched to the Atlantic Ocean," Sayyari said.

Comment: Iranian news commentary showed that the context of the Admiral's remarks is its plan to deploy a 16th naval contingent to support international anti-piracy operations. The Iranian Navy has been supporting anti-piracy patrols in the Gulf of Aden since November 2008. Iran has no capability to support ships on patrol in the western Atlantic. The English interpretation of the Admiral's statement makes Iran look ridiculous, except that it provided no time frame for such deployments. The Admiral only stated that if ordered to deploy to the Atlantic, the navy would, or would try, some time. The navy's reach exceeds its grasp for now, but that makes the reach a long range naval goal. Operating from bases in Venezuela, Iran's ally, the Iranian Navy eventually could maintain ships and submarines and sustain patrols in the Caribbean and beyond.

Iran's mullahs may be crazy, but they aren't stupid, and if they have a plan to expand their naval forces, we need to be prepared to deal with it.

Tipsycatlover
09-28-2011, 05:16 PM
1. The nature of the version of Shiite Islam to which the government of Iran adheres
The mullahs in Iran practice a particularly virulent brand of Shiite Islam. They believe in the return of 'the 12th Imam,' known as the Mahdi. The Mahdi can best be understood as the Shiite messiah. They believe that when the Mahdi returns he will usher in a 1000-year age of justice, and that the Mahdi will come in response to a condition of chaos and destruction. The added fillip to this is that they believe that they themselves can cause this to happen by creating the necessary chaos and destruction (remember, I am not arguing that this should make sense to you. The point is that it makes sense to them).


This is something I know a little about.

Under the Shah the cult of the Mahdi was deemed so dangerous that it was completely outlawed. Believers were imprisoned or executed. The 12th Imam is a child who they believe is hidden. Ahmadinejad is a firm Mahdeist. He said that when he was speaking before the UN (last time not this time just passed) he had a vision from Allah that he was chosen to start the period of chaos which will call the 12th Imam from hiding. That period of chaos was to be nuclear war. Ahmadinejad believes that the purpose of his life, as a believer in the 12th Imam is to start nuclear war. This belief is the driving force behind Iran's nuclear plans. During the period of justice, infidels and Jews will be slaughtered. Islam will dominate the world. It will be the only religion, shariah the only law. Then mohammed will return to rule.

DumbAss Tanker
09-28-2011, 05:21 PM
1. The nature of the version of Shiite Islam to which the government of Iran adheres

With all due respect, we and everyone else already know they're batshit crazy.


2. EMP (electromagnetic pulse)

I think the nuke necessary to get it would draw a whole lot more attention and reaction than the EMP. Hardening the electric grid sounds like a wise precaution, until you realize it completely ignores the fact that almost every damned thing we run off that grid is permeated with unhardened ICs in the controls, which will fry and render the device useless a whole lot easier than those multi-KV long transmission lines, 'way below the threshhold that will take out the power grid. There is almost nothing electric in current production with purely analog controls and systems, thanks to 'Green energy.'

namvet
09-28-2011, 05:24 PM
Maybe, but I get a newsletter called Nightwatch, which features some very interesting commentary. They discussed this in last night's edition. Here's the text:


Iran: Navy Commander Admiral Sayyari told the press on 27 September, "Just like the global hegemony that is present near our marine borders, we also plan to establish a strong presence near US marine borders," The US has deployed several fleets in the Persian Gulf. He said that the deployment of Iranian naval "fleets" (sic) in the Gulf of Aden and the Red Sea as well as the presence of its submarines in the Red Sea marked an honor for the Iranian nation and other Muslim countries. Admiral Sayyari reminded that the Navy started deployment in the far seas following an order by the Supreme Leader of the Islamic Revolution, Ayatollah Seyed Ali Khamenei. The Supreme Leader had ordered the Navy to be turned into a "strategic force." He cited the continued deployment of Iranian warships and submarines in international waters and the high-seas, and reiterated that the Navy would "continue its presence in the Mediterranean Sea, the Suez Canal, South of the Indian Ocean and the high seas." "And now the Navy plans to widen its presence in the high seas in a bid to protect the country's interests and provide security for the country's shipping lines." Sayyari had also earlier this year announced that the Navy plans to deploy fleets of warships in the Atlantic Ocean. "In case of a final approval, the Army's naval fleet will be dispatched to the Atlantic Ocean," Sayyari said.

Comment: Iranian news commentary showed that the context of the Admiral's remarks is its plan to deploy a 16th naval contingent to support international anti-piracy operations. The Iranian Navy has been supporting anti-piracy patrols in the Gulf of Aden since November 2008. Iran has no capability to support ships on patrol in the western Atlantic. The English interpretation of the Admiral's statement makes Iran look ridiculous, except that it provided no time frame for such deployments. The Admiral only stated that if ordered to deploy to the Atlantic, the navy would, or would try, some time. The navy's reach exceeds its grasp for now, but that makes the reach a long range naval goal. Operating from bases in Venezuela, Iran's ally, the Iranian Navy eventually could maintain ships and submarines and sustain patrols in the Caribbean and beyond.

Iran's mullahs may be crazy, but they aren't stupid, and if they have a plan to expand their naval forces, we need to be prepared to deal with it.

does Admiral shit for brains know we have these deployed in every ocean of the world and one pointed right at his ass??? and some sort of plan to defeat them???

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2e/USS_Maine_%28SSBN-741%29.jpg/800px-USS_Maine_%28SSBN-741%29.jpg

AmPat
09-29-2011, 09:17 AM
Those must have been some stinky people you came into contact with. I don't know what the determining factor is there. I went to school with a lot of Iranians before the fall of the Shah, and can't recall them being stinky. Given to an excess of cologne, yes (Disco). But cologne doesn't cover stink.

Mind you, I'll take your word for it as I have no desire to get close enough to find out.

Same time frame. They covered their locker room and armpit aroma with cheap cologne. The cologne suspended their stink and had the effect of turning their lack of hygiene into a persistent and lethal chemical attack on the olfactory senses.

I stayed upwind whenever possible.

djones520
09-29-2011, 09:48 AM
Those must have been some stinky people you came into contact with. I don't know what the determining factor is there. I went to school with a lot of Iranians before the fall of the Shah, and can't recall them being stinky. Given to an excess of cologne, yes (Disco). But cologne doesn't cover stink.

Mind you, I'll take your word for it as I have no desire to get close enough to find out.

Dependant on the lifestyle they have, many folks from that region have got the stink. It's a side effect of things like running water being a luxury.

Odysseus
09-29-2011, 02:53 PM
This is something I know a little about.

Under the Shah the cult of the Mahdi was deemed so dangerous that it was completely outlawed. Believers were imprisoned or executed. The 12th Imam is a child who they believe is hidden. Ahmadinejad is a firm Mahdeist. He said that when he was speaking before the UN (last time not this time just passed) he had a vision from Allah that he was chosen to start the period of chaos which will call the 12th Imam from hiding. That period of chaos was to be nuclear war. Ahmadinejad believes that the purpose of his life, as a believer in the 12th Imam is to start nuclear war. This belief is the driving force behind Iran's nuclear plans. During the period of justice, infidels and Jews will be slaughtered. Islam will dominate the world. It will be the only religion, shariah the only law. Then mohammed will return to rule.
Exactly. And that belief, coupled with nukes and terrorists, makes Iran an existential threat.

With all due respect, we and everyone else already know they're batshit crazy.

I think the nuke necessary to get it would draw a whole lot more attention and reaction than the EMP. Hardening the electric grid sounds like a wise precaution, until you realize it completely ignores the fact that almost every damned thing we run off that grid is permeated with unhardened ICs in the controls, which will fry and render the device useless a whole lot easier than those multi-KV long transmission lines, 'way below the threshhold that will take out the power grid. There is almost nothing electric in current production with purely analog controls and systems, thanks to 'Green energy.'
Securing the grid would ensure that we would only have to replace end user items, rather than the grid itself. It would mean being back in business in months instead of years, and we'd still have electrical power to run critical infrastructure that should also be hardened against this threat.

does Admiral shit for brains know we have these deployed in every ocean of the world and one pointed right at his ass??? and some sort of plan to defeat them???

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2e/USS_Maine_%28SSBN-741%29.jpg/800px-USS_Maine_%28SSBN-741%29.jpg
Yes, I'm sure that he does. He also doesn't care. The Mahdists believe that the conflagration that they are initiating will bring the Mahdi out of hiding. If a few million of the faithful have to die to bring that about, it's worth it in the long run, because they will be in paradise. It seems crazy to us, but so do many of the things that they believe and do. They also believe that we probably won't use our arsenals, after watching Clinton run from Somalia and Obama dithering in Iraq and Afghanistan, they have concluded that we are too afraid to fight effectively.

Dependant on the lifestyle they have, many folks from that region have got the stink. It's a side effect of things like running water being a luxury.

And being wrapped from head to toe in a cloth coffin. The Muslim families that we saw at Disney consisted of men in western clothing and women in full-length chadors, head scarves and the rest of the associated over and undergarments. They were sweltering in the 100-degree heat with 90% humidity, and after a few hours, you could tell where they were on the lines by the gaps around them. The BO was particularly bad in the areas where you had to walk to the rides and they'd worked up a sweat.

namvet
09-29-2011, 03:39 PM
Exactly. And that belief, coupled with nukes and terrorists, makes Iran an existential threat.

Securing the grid would ensure that we would only have to replace end user items, rather than the grid itself. It would mean being back in business in months instead of years, and we'd still have electrical power to run critical infrastructure that should also be hardened against this threat.

Yes, I'm sure that he does. He also doesn't care. The Mahdists believe that the conflagration that they are initiating will bring the Mahdi out of hiding. If a few million of the faithful have to die to bring that about, it's worth it in the long run, because they will be in paradise. It seems crazy to us, but so do many of the things that they believe and do. They also believe that we probably won't use our arsenals, after watching Clinton run from Somalia and Obama dithering in Iraq and Afghanistan, they have concluded that we are too afraid to fight effectively.


And being wrapped from head to toe in a cloth coffin. The Muslim families that we saw at Disney consisted of men in western clothing and women in full-length chadors, head scarves and the rest of the associated over and undergarments. They were sweltering in the 100-degree heat with 90% humidity, and after a few hours, you could tell where they were on the lines by the gaps around them. The BO was particularly bad in the areas where you had to walk to the rides and they'd worked up a sweat.

long as its his country turned to glass and not ours. better him than us. did you say paradise??? its not 72 virgins. its one 72 year old virgin.

Odysseus
09-29-2011, 04:23 PM
long as its his country turned to glass and not ours. better him than us. did you say paradise??? its not 72 virgins. its one 72 year old virgin.

The problem is that in order to provoke us to turn Iran into glass, they'd have to carry out a serious MASSCAL event in CONUS, something worse than 9/11. Remember that al Qaeda killed 3,000 Americans in one day and the Taliban refused to give them up, and we went in with conventional forces rather than use nukes. The anti-nuclear taboo among major powers is probably the strongest deterrent to their use, since everyone assumes that the first nation to use one in a conflict will invite retaliation in kind. Most non-state terror groups would cheerfully use nukes if they had access to them, and the only thing preventing this is that the state which provided the warhead would have a hard time maintaining plausible deniability when the time came for reprisal. Does anyone doubt that al Qaeda would have happily detonated a warhead in CONUS if they could have, or that Pakistan would have provided one if they thought that they could get away with it?

The problem is that Iran not only doesn't expect to get away with using a nuclear weapon, it doesn't care. The mullahs want the honor of being the ones to start WWIII, because they know that they will gain paradise after they've been martyred, and will bask in the adoration of the global jihadis until then. We are dealing, not with irrational actors, but fanatical ones are are acting quite rationally by the lights of their religious dogma. This makes them relatively predictable, but only if you are able to look at them through the prism of their own beliefs.

DumbAss Tanker
09-29-2011, 04:43 PM
Securing the grid would ensure that we would only have to replace end user items, rather than the grid itself. It would mean being back in business in months instead of years, and we'd still have electrical power to run critical infrastructure that should also be hardened against this threat.



Yeah. "Only." Except the "Only" is everything necessary to make shit work, from every vehicle computer to the banking system to the cell towers. It's actually not that tough to replace the transmission wire, which is the main thing EMP will hit in the grid, and it's not going to melt it down from end to end. And that's with a 50 MT (I.e. thermonuclear) subspace burst over the central US, which is what it would take to deliver a continental effect.

Hardening the grid would be a great idea if we were flush and living in boom times, even aside from Iran eventually getting the capability to do widespread harm to it, which is presently pretty distant in time, because there is always the possibility of astrophysical events that could have a similar effect, the frequency and intensity of which is terra incongnita since we have only had a long-line power grid for a mere hundred years, and semiconductor technology for a bit over half that.

However it's also ridiculously unaffordable in our present bedgetary circumstances without a threat that has a present or imminent capability to justify it, and Iran doesn't qualify. This is being hyped beyond realism, for reasons that at best amount to pie-in-the-sky security thinking akin to the MX missile basing ideas of the 80s, and at worst by contractors lusting for major projects in the face of inevitably declining defense spending.

namvet
09-29-2011, 06:10 PM
The problem is that in order to provoke us to turn Iran into glass, they'd have to carry out a serious MASSCAL event in CONUS, something worse than 9/11. Remember that al Qaeda killed 3,000 Americans in one day and the Taliban refused to give them up, and we went in with conventional forces rather than use nukes. The anti-nuclear taboo among major powers is probably the strongest deterrent to their use, since everyone assumes that the first nation to use one in a conflict will invite retaliation in kind. Most non-state terror groups would cheerfully use nukes if they had access to them, and the only thing preventing this is that the state which provided the warhead would have a hard time maintaining plausible deniability when the time came for reprisal. Does anyone doubt that al Qaeda would have happily detonated a warhead in CONUS if they could have, or that Pakistan would have provided one if they thought that they could get away with it?

The problem is that Iran not only doesn't expect to get away with using a nuclear weapon, it doesn't care. The mullahs want the honor of being the ones to start WWIII, because they know that they will gain paradise after they've been martyred, and will bask in the adoration of the global jihadis until then. We are dealing, not with irrational actors, but fanatical ones are are acting quite rationally by the lights of their religious dogma. This makes them relatively predictable, but only if you are able to look at them through the prism of their own beliefs.

like i said. this is just smoke filled coffee house crap. any nuke attack on us turns them into glass.

Tipsycatlover
09-29-2011, 06:39 PM
Maybe Iran has some plan for all those surface to air missiles they stole from Libya!

Iran does not care if we sink every one of their ships and put the survivors in Gitmo. In reality, they would count that as a major victory. The propaganda would be priceless.

The palestinians haven't won a single battle, not one. Yet they have been successful beyond Arafat's wildest dreams.

namvet
09-29-2011, 06:47 PM
THIS is the biggest threat to our national security

http://www.visitingdc.com/images/barack-obama-picture.jpg

hai
09-29-2011, 06:57 PM
THIS is the biggest threat to our national security

http://www.visitingdc.com/images/barack-obama-picture.jpg

This.

BTW,what is with people taking so long to reply to topics?

Rockntractor
09-29-2011, 07:10 PM
This.

BTW,what is with people taking so long to reply to topics?

You have been transported to a parallel universe, it only seems longer in your reality.

namvet
09-29-2011, 07:12 PM
I had to take a dump then eat. or was it the other way around???

hai
09-29-2011, 07:20 PM
You have been transported to a parallel universe, it only seems longer in your reality.

o.O

Odysseus
09-29-2011, 07:28 PM
Yeah. "Only." Except the "Only" is everything necessary to make shit work, from every vehicle computer to the banking system to the cell towers. It's actually not that tough to replace the transmission wire, which is the main thing EMP will hit in the grid, and it's not going to melt it down from end to end. And that's with a 50 MT (I.e. thermonuclear) subspace burst over the central US, which is what it would take to deliver a continental effect.

Hardening the grid would be a great idea if we were flush and living in boom times, even aside from Iran eventually getting the capability to do widespread harm to it, which is presently pretty distant in time, because there is always the possibility of astrophysical events that could have a similar effect, the frequency and intensity of which is terra incongnita since we have only had a long-line power grid for a mere hundred years, and semiconductor technology for a bit over half that.

However it's also ridiculously unaffordable in our present bedgetary circumstances without a threat that has a present or imminent capability to justify it, and Iran doesn't qualify. This is being hyped beyond realism, for reasons that at best amount to pie-in-the-sky security thinking akin to the MX missile basing ideas of the 80s, and at worst by contractors lusting for major projects in the face of inevitably declining defense spending.
I hope that you're right.

like i said. this is just smoke filled coffee house crap. any nuke attack on us turns them into glass.
Yes, but as I said, they don't care about that. They want to die for Allah. They are apocalyptic loons. The problem with Iran is that, unlike the Soviet Union or China, the people in charge are true believers. The generation of Soviet and Chinese leaders after Lenin and Mao were cynical hacks, but they were deadly cynical hacks. The Iranians are the Lenins, Trotskys and Maos of their revolution. They're still drinking the Koolade. In fact, they're mainlining it. Take them at their word. They really mean what they are saying when they talk about wanting to take on the Great Satan bring about the return of the Mahdi.


This.

BTW,what is with people taking so long to reply to topics?

We have lives. Also, you aren't exactly someone who has to be replied to.

Odysseus
09-29-2011, 09:54 PM
Sorry,because i notice that when i post to sites like this: people seem to reply fast.

http://www.onrpg.com/boards/

Okay, here's a hint: It's not all about you. Really.

hai
09-29-2011, 10:04 PM
Okay, here's a hint: It's not all about you. Really.

Sorry,dude.

Odysseus
09-29-2011, 10:07 PM
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Do you begin to understand how you come across now?

hai
09-29-2011, 10:09 PM
Do you begin to understand how you come across now?

Yeah,i said i'm sorry dude.