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View Full Version : Stolen Valor Act - Heading to the Supreme Court.



Apocalypse
10-17-2011, 08:18 PM
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hpTMJ30oQ23E5XcBbR7wjSSxStDA?docId=c8188b485 4414e54ac7b493ba00eb4e9


The Supreme Court has agreed to hear (http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hpTMJ30oQ23E5XcBbR7wjSSxStDA?docId=c8188b485 4414e54ac7b493ba00eb4e9) the case.

The court said Monday it will rule on the constitutionality of a law that makes it a federal crime for people to claim falsely, either in writing or aloud, that they have been awarded the Medal of Honor, a Silver Star, Purple Heart or any other military medal.

San Francisco-based 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals voted 2-1 to strike down the law. The majority said there is no evidence that lies such as the one told by Alvarez harm anybody and no compelling reason to make a crime out of them.

Articulate_Ape
10-18-2011, 12:05 AM
People lie about a lot of things. I suspect that vets here have heard stories from other vets they felt were embellished.

We do not need another law to criminalize speech. Period.

Rockntractor
10-18-2011, 12:12 AM
People lie about a lot of things. I suspect that vets here have heard stories from other vets they felt were embellished.

We do not need another law to criminalize speech. Period.

If it is bragging that is one thing, if it is used for some sort of financial gain or to receive some sort of benefit that is another, I would imagine our current fraud statutes would cover that misuse.

djones520
10-18-2011, 12:18 AM
People lie about a lot of things. I suspect that vets here have heard stories from other vets they felt were embellished.



We until recently had such a person here.

Rockntractor
10-18-2011, 12:22 AM
We until recently had such a person here.

As disgusting as it is, ape really has a good point, unless it is used in some sort of fraud it may not be the best idea to criminalize it.

MountainMan
10-18-2011, 12:36 AM
People lie about a lot of things. I suspect that vets here have heard stories from other vets they felt were embellished.

We do not need another law to criminalize speech. Period.

Vets embellishing stories is one thing. That however is not what this law is about. It should be criminal if you claim to have been awarded a certain medal and then use that status to either get financial gain OR influence people. By not criminalizing it, you encourage it. I can't tell you how many times I wanted to reach thru the TV at some of these so-called vets badmouthing other vets only to have it later come out they were lying intentionally to sway peoples attention.

Special forces people, especially the navy seals have to deal with this sort of crap all the time.

DumbAss Tanker
10-18-2011, 11:12 AM
I disagree strongly with those who think it doesn't matter. 'Vets embellishing stories' is a long way from just plain lying about being a vet, and one decorated for valor on top of that, which is what all the cases involve. There are many benefits such as hiring preferences for vets that this law protects from plundering assholes. False personation offenses do not traditionally require a showing of personal gain to be criminal offenses, only the fact of getting others to do things they would not have done if they had not believed the actor was the person he or she claimed to be.

I for one hope the Ninth Circus gets bitchslapped.

Wei Wu Wei
10-18-2011, 11:16 AM
Vets embellishing stories is one thing. That however is not what this law is about. It should be criminal if you claim to have been awarded a certain medal and then use that status to either get financial gain OR influence people. By not criminalizing it, you encourage it. I can't tell you how many times I wanted to reach thru the TV at some of these so-called vets badmouthing other vets only to have it later come out they were lying intentionally to sway peoples attention.

Special forces people, especially the navy seals have to deal with this sort of crap all the time.

It may be pathetic, but it shouldn't be illegal. There are already laws on the books concerning fraud.

This law would be an assault on the freedoms that the military says it protects.

txradioguy
10-18-2011, 11:22 AM
I disagree strongly with those who think it doesn't matter. 'Vets embellishing stories' is a long way from just plain lying about being a vet, and one decorated for valor on top of that, which is what all the cases involve. There are many benefits such as hiring preferences for vets that this law protects from plundering assholes. False personation offenses do not traditionally require a showing of personal gain to be criminal offenses, only the fact of getting others to do things they would not have done if they had not believed the actor was the person he or she claimed to be.

I for one hope the Ninth Circus gets bitchslapped.


QFT


And I will add that trying to give these fakers protection under the 1sst Amendment is the most pathetic use of "Freedom of Speech" I've ever seen. And it spits in the face of everyone who has legitimately earned those medals.

fettpett
10-18-2011, 11:22 AM
thing is, that many people use it as fraud when they claim they received such medals and haven't. Most will use it to get jobs or for financial gain as public speakers.

DumbAss Tanker
10-18-2011, 11:36 AM
thing is, that many people use it as fraud when they claim they received such medals and haven't. Most will use it to get jobs or for financial gain as public speakers.

No disrespect intended, but your understanding of the law of fraud and false pretenses is far, far different from the actual law and criminal process involved in a fraud case.

The first instance you describe would at worst get the employee fired (Probably not even that in a union shop), and the second would not be a promising criminal fraud case if the impostor actually gave the speech (Though it might or might not be technically prosecutable, depending on all the circumstances).