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bijou
10-19-2011, 02:38 PM
Cold hard cash. It's good everywhere you go, right? You can use it to pay for anything.

But that's not the case here in Louisiana now. It's a law that was passed during this year's busy legislative session.

House bill 195 basically says those who buy and sell second hand goods cannot use cash to make those transactions, and it flew so far under the radar most businesses don't even know about it.

"We're gonna lose a lot of business," says Danny Guidry, who owns the Pioneer Trading Post in Lafayette. He deals in buying and selling unique second hand items.

"We don't want this cash transaction to be taken away from us. It's an everyday transaction," Guidry explains.

Guidry says, "I think everyone in this business once they find out about it. They're will definitely be a lot of uproar."

The law states those who buy or sell second hand goods are prohibited from using cash. State representative Rickey Hardy co-authored the bill. ...http://www.klfy.com/story/15717759/second-hand-dealer-law

marv
10-19-2011, 05:10 PM
Besides non-profit resellers like Goodwill, and garage sales, the language of the bill encompasses stores like the Pioneer Trading Post and flea markets.
New Orleans prostitutes, too? http://www.conservativeunderground.com/forum505/images/smilies/eek.gif

Novaheart
10-19-2011, 05:18 PM
Look for this to become the law of the land for all merchants. Business which only take cash have long been considered suspect of skimming. I grew up around kids whose parents owned small stores, and they all pretty much skimmed even after credit cards came along. My friend Kevin's mom actually told me, "You have to, to survive." They also would not charge sales tax if you paid in cash, because they were skimming the cash sales.

There might be some legitimate businesses which simply have a moral opposition to credit cards and checks, but I'd put my money on them being skimmers.

fettpett
10-19-2011, 05:20 PM
New Orleans prostitutes, too? http://www.conservativeunderground.com/forum505/images/smilies/eek.gif

:eek::lol:

two laws broken in one fell swoop :D

Rockntractor
10-19-2011, 05:23 PM
So what happened to the part about it being legal tender, was this state or federal?

lacarnut
10-19-2011, 05:59 PM
This is news to me. I would have thought that Gov. Jindal had more sense than to have signed this screwball law.

Rockntractor
10-19-2011, 06:40 PM
This note is legal tender for all debts public and private. What part of this do they not understand? Some jackass court will find some hidden meaning in the plain literal intention of this statement.
http://www.seasideequity.com/images/dollar.bmp

Novaheart
10-19-2011, 06:53 PM
This note is legal tender for all debts public and private. What part of this do they not understand?

Having just read the definition of legal tender, I'd say that the difference is this:

If you owe jack $100 for a used lawnmower he sold you last week, and if you put $100 cash into Jack's hand this week, then he has been paid and has no claim against you.

The difference here would appear to be that this law would forbid Jack from selling to you under those terms.

It's already illegal in practice to pay cash for a new automobile. If you do, the dealer will report you to the appropriate agency as a suspected drug dealer.

lacarnut
10-19-2011, 07:29 PM
It's already illegal in practice to pay cash for a new automobile. If you do, the dealer will report you to the appropriate agency as a suspected drug dealer.

Since when? The dealer is required to report cash transactions over $10k to the IRS. However, there is no law that forbids someone to fork over a pile of cash to buy a new car. Where do you get this shit from??

Novaheart
10-19-2011, 08:46 PM
Since when? The dealer is required to report cash transactions over $10k to the IRS. However, there is no law that forbids someone to fork over a pile of cash to buy a new car. Where do you get this shit from??

Did I say that the law forbids you from paying cash for a car? No, I didn't. I said that it was illegal IN PRACTICE, meaning that there is a system in place which would discourage it. It is considered suspicious activity. Of course, before it was considered a sign of being a drug dealer, there were other names for the customer who didn't have a checking account and people like you in general.

Tipsycatlover
10-20-2011, 08:28 AM
It isn't illegal in practice. It means that an additional form has to be filled out.

Novaheart
10-20-2011, 01:29 PM
It isn't illegal in practice. It means that an additional form has to be filled out.

If the dealer doesn't report the transaction as cash, then what is the penalty?

This is not a game. This is bullshit in the name of safety or law enforcement. It is hand in hand with "safety checkpoints".

Oh, now Saint Petersburg, under command of an moron, is calling red light cameras "safety cameras". Not surprising when you consider that the mayor of St Pete thinks the earth is 5772 years old. Which is not to say that the list of those who would trample your civil rights is limited to fundies, clearly it's not.

Rockntractor
10-20-2011, 01:47 PM
Not surprising when you consider that the mayor of St Pete thinks the earth is 5772 years old.

Give me an exact age, not a theory.

noonwitch
10-20-2011, 01:51 PM
It isn't illegal in practice. It means that an additional form has to be filled out.

And who does the dealership send that form to? Some federal agency, probably the IRS, who then decides whether it is a law enforcement issue, once they have pulled the buyer's banking records and matching them up against the W2 forms.

Tipsycatlover
10-20-2011, 03:59 PM
If the dealer doesn't report the transaction as cash, then what is the penalty?

This is not a game. This is bullshit in the name of safety or law enforcement. It is hand in hand with "safety checkpoints".

Oh, now Saint Petersburg, under command of an moron, is calling red light cameras "safety cameras". Not surprising when you consider that the mayor of St Pete thinks the earth is 5772 years old. Which is not to say that the list of those who would trample your civil rights is limited to fundies, clearly it's not.

The penalty is the same as it is for failure to fill out any form required by the government.

This has nothing to do with private party transactions. This is an attempt to control the sale of stolen goods. Since theft is OUTRAGEOUS, I believe an entire bridge was recently stolen to sell for scrap, something has to be done. IF we had a population composed mostly of honest people, like second hand dealers that consulted the stolen property lists or wondered just where that scrap dealer got those tons of metal we wouldn't have laws like this. Since this society is becoming more degenerate, you can expect more laws like this and worse.

Tipsycatlover
10-20-2011, 04:02 PM
And who does the dealership send that form to? Some federal agency, probably the IRS, who then decides whether it is a law enforcement issue, once they have pulled the buyer's banking records and matching them up against the W2 forms.

Exactly! It goes to the IRS who will want an explanation of where the cash came from. These are only for CASH transactions. Write a check, get a cashier's check from the bank. Get a credit card with a really big balance.

fettpett
10-20-2011, 04:22 PM
If the dealer doesn't report the transaction as cash, then what is the penalty?

This is not a game. This is bullshit in the name of safety or law enforcement. It is hand in hand with "safety checkpoints".

Oh, now Saint Petersburg, under command of an moron, is calling red light cameras "safety cameras". Not surprising when you consider that the mayor of St Pete thinks the earth is 5772 years old. Which is not to say that the list of those who would trample your civil rights is limited to fundies, clearly it's not.

what's your point? Rham wants to put more of those dumbass things in Chicago too, the two don't equate


They should not be able to block cash from being used in ANY transaction. It's crap.

marv
10-20-2011, 05:23 PM
As I understand the law, the $10,000 limit applies to bank transactions, e.g., deposits and withdrawls. I paid $14,000 cash for a car once.........http://www.conservativeunderground.com/forum505/images/smilies/tongue.gif

Tipsycatlover
10-20-2011, 06:09 PM
I'm pretty sure that it applies to cash transactions. You, as a buyer, didn't fill out the form at all. The car dealer did.

Here are all the particulars.

http://www.irs.gov/businesses/small/article/0,,id=148821,00.html

Novaheart
10-21-2011, 09:55 AM
what's your point? Rham wants to put more of those dumbass things in Chicago too, the two don't equate


They should not be able to block cash from being used in ANY transaction. It's crap.

How about simply banning pawn shops? Or requiring them to hold merchandise so long that it frustrated them out of business?

One thing I think we can agree upon, is that there is a relationship between the number of pawn shops in an area, the number of people who appear to be selling and using hard drugs in that area, and the number of burglaries in that area. These meth heads aren't selling your CD collection at yard sales.

fettpett
10-21-2011, 10:10 AM
How about simply banning pawn shops? Or requiring them to hold merchandise so long that it frustrated them out of business?

One thing I think we can agree upon, is that there is a relationship between the number of pawn shops in an area, the number of people who appear to be selling and using hard drugs in that area, and the number of burglaries in that area. These meth heads aren't selling your CD collection at yard sales.

:rolleyes: and most Pawn shops stay above board and will not take hot merchandise, why risk being raided by the cops and being shut down? They are legit businesses, just like any other, it's not the type of business, but the people who run them. If they are committing a crime, shut them down.

lacarnut
10-21-2011, 11:13 AM
:rolleyes: and most Pawn shops stay above board and will not take hot merchandise, why risk being raided by the cops and being shut down? They are legit businesses, just like any other, it's not the type of business, but the people who run them. If they are committing a crime, shut them down.

Nova could care less if they are legit; he only sees the social justice issue. No one twists arms to receive cash for goods. Poor people like him consider them evil and taking advantage of the downtrodden.

Novaheart
10-21-2011, 12:00 PM
Nova could care less if they are legit; he only sees the social justice issue. No one twists arms to receive cash for goods. Poor people like him consider them evil and taking advantage of the downtrodden.

Good morning to you. Have you already started drinking today?

Arroyo_Doble
10-21-2011, 12:13 PM
How about simply banning pawn shops? Or requiring them to hold merchandise so long that it frustrated them out of business?

One thing I think we can agree upon, is that there is a relationship between the number of pawn shops in an area, the number of people who appear to be selling and using hard drugs in that area, and the number of burglaries in that area. These meth heads aren't selling your CD collection at yard sales.

Check cashing, title loans, and payday loan establishments (and nail salons, for some reason) are a better indicator now.

I think the market for lawn implements, mowers, weedeaters, tools, ect, has moved to underground marketplaces. Off the books, backyard criminal enterprises. At least around here.

I think Fett is right and pawn shops have move up the ladder as far as legitimate businesses (one of the most popular "reality" shows centers on a pawn shop). The next business for the constabulary to start cracking down on to get into line will be scrap dealers.

Odysseus
10-21-2011, 12:35 PM
New Orleans prostitutes, too? http://www.conservativeunderground.com/forum505/images/smilies/eek.gif
They take plastic, but you have to pay extra to swipe the card in the slot. :D

Look for this to become the law of the land for all merchants. Business which only take cash have long been considered suspect of skimming. I grew up around kids whose parents owned small stores, and they all pretty much skimmed even after credit cards came along. My friend Kevin's mom actually told me, "You have to, to survive." They also would not charge sales tax if you paid in cash, because they were skimming the cash sales.

There might be some legitimate businesses which simply have a moral opposition to credit cards and checks, but I'd put my money on them being skimmers.
If honest businesses have to break the law to survive, then there is something wrong with the law, not the business.

Having just read the definition of legal tender, I'd say that the difference is this:

If you owe jack $100 for a used lawnmower he sold you last week, and if you put $100 cash into Jack's hand this week, then he has been paid and has no claim against you.

The difference here would appear to be that this law would forbid Jack from selling to you under those terms.

It's already illegal in practice to pay cash for a new automobile. If you do, the dealer will report you to the appropriate agency as a suspected drug dealer.
So, if Jack lends me his car, and somewhere down the line, say after a week, I give him cash to repay the debt, then we've circumvented the law?

The penalty is the same as it is for failure to fill out any form required by the government.

This has nothing to do with private party transactions. This is an attempt to control the sale of stolen goods. Since theft is OUTRAGEOUS, I believe an entire bridge was recently stolen to sell for scrap, something has to be done. IF we had a population composed mostly of honest people, like second hand dealers that consulted the stolen property lists or wondered just where that scrap dealer got those tons of metal we wouldn't have laws like this. Since this society is becoming more degenerate, you can expect more laws like this and worse.
I don't know if I believe that. Traffickers in stolen goods will be about as likely to obey this law as they are to obey the laws against theft, burglary or any other impediment to their acquisition of someone else's stuff. The people who will run afoul of this law are those who run cash-heavy businesses, which the state wants a bigger piece of. If the state wanted to crack down on crime, they'd enforce the laws already on the books instead of inventing new crimes to prosecute.

How about simply banning pawn shops? Or requiring them to hold merchandise so long that it frustrated them out of business?

One thing I think we can agree upon, is that there is a relationship between the number of pawn shops in an area, the number of people who appear to be selling and using hard drugs in that area, and the number of burglaries in that area. These meth heads aren't selling your CD collection at yard sales.

I despise the idea of using the law to persecute a business because you cannot ban it outright. If someone is going to ban pawnshops, then they should make the case that pawnshops should be banned. Pretending to regulate them to the point where they can no longer function is dishonest and corrupt.

BTW, am I the only one who expects to see this heavily enforced at gun shows?

Novaheart
10-22-2011, 12:03 AM
BTW, am I the only one who expects to see this heavily enforced at gun shows?

Good catch. Devious gun grabbers.

Tipsycatlover
10-22-2011, 12:11 PM
They take plastic, but you have to pay extra to swipe the card in the slot. :D

If honest businesses have to break the law to survive, then there is something wrong with the law, not the business.

So, if Jack lends me his car, and somewhere down the line, say after a week, I give him cash to repay the debt, then we've circumvented the law?

I don't know if I believe that. Traffickers in stolen goods will be about as likely to obey this law as they are to obey the laws against theft, burglary or any other impediment to their acquisition of someone else's stuff. The people who will run afoul of this law are those who run cash-heavy businesses, which the state wants a bigger piece of. If the state wanted to crack down on crime, they'd enforce the laws already on the books instead of inventing new crimes to prosecute.


I despise the idea of using the law to persecute a business because you cannot ban it outright. If someone is going to ban pawnshops, then they should make the case that pawnshops should be banned. Pretending to regulate them to the point where they can no longer function is dishonest and corrupt.

BTW, am I the only one who expects to see this heavily enforced at gun shows?

Traffickers in stolen goods won't obey any laws. They use the laws to their own advantage. Thieves are notroriously lazy. They could sell that jewelry themselves, put an ad in the Recycler. That would take time. Better to use a fence. This law is going to be used most heavily against scrappers.

Odysseus
10-22-2011, 03:42 PM
Traffickers in stolen goods won't obey any laws. They use the laws to their own advantage. Thieves are notroriously lazy. They could sell that jewelry themselves, put an ad in the Recycler. That would take time. Better to use a fence. This law is going to be used most heavily against scrappers.

Except that an ad in the Recycler would attract police attention. Advertising for stolen goods is a quick way to get caught. But the overwhelming majority of pawn shops won't deal in stolen goods. A thief who wanted to unload something will invariably sell to someone who is in the market for the specific item stolen. For example, car stereos may cost hundreds of dollars new, but stolen ones are usually sold for the price of a single fix, and the people who buy them are going to sell them to chop shops who will then re-sell them to dealers who will re-install them in the cars that they were stolen from for a nice markup, just like any other stolen car parts.

Tipsycatlover
10-22-2011, 03:54 PM
Except that an ad in the Recycler would attract police attention. Advertising for stolen goods is a quick way to get caught. But the overwhelming majority of pawn shops won't deal in stolen goods. A thief who wanted to unload something will invariably sell to someone who is in the market for the specific item stolen. For example, car stereos may cost hundreds of dollars new, but stolen ones are usually sold for the price of a single fix, and the people who buy them are going to sell them to chop shops who will then re-sell them to dealers who will re-install them in the cars that they were stolen from for a nice markup, just like any other stolen car parts.

Pawn shops routinely sell stolen goods! That's the whole point of this kind of law. A private party ad in something like a Recycler doesn't attract any attention at all unless it repeats and they don't repeat. Thieves don't sell stolen goods that way not because it would attract attention, but because it's too slow. Sometimes a cop will answer an ad for jewelry that fits the stolen goods description but not many. This law isn't even directed towards those. This law is directed to scrap yards because the thefts of metal for scrap have reached outrageous proportions.

Chop shops are an entirely different kind of industry. This kind of law won't do anything at all to chop shops. Choppers get car parts from mexico with legitimate bills of lading, whether they are chopped here or there! It doesn't matter. With any question a chopper can produce a sales receipt from Jose's Body Shop in Juarez on demand.

RobJohnson
10-23-2011, 10:57 PM
Having just read the definition of legal tender, I'd say that the difference is this:

If you owe jack $100 for a used lawnmower he sold you last week, and if you put $100 cash into Jack's hand this week, then he has been paid and has no claim against you.

The difference here would appear to be that this law would forbid Jack from selling to you under those terms.

It's already illegal in practice to pay cash for a new automobile. If you do, the dealer will report you to the appropriate agency as a suspected drug dealer.

I think paypal is behind this.

Cash transactions happen every day in every town or city.

There is a big difference from buying a lawn mower for $100 cash and a $40,000 car.....when all cash transactions over $10,000 have to be reported in the first place.

Just think...those big evil banks are missing out on merchant fees by people using CASH....I am sure there is plenty of lobbying that was done in favor of this bill...

lacarnut
10-23-2011, 11:47 PM
Good morning to you. Have you already started drinking today?

Yep, Barq's rootbeer.

RobJohnson
10-26-2011, 02:29 AM
:rolleyes: and most Pawn shops stay above board and will not take hot merchandise, why risk being raided by the cops and being shut down? They are legit businesses, just like any other, it's not the type of business, but the people who run them. If they are committing a crime, shut them down.


http://www.lasvegas.net/UserFiles/Images/company_photos/5165.jpg

Tecate
10-26-2011, 07:29 AM
Silly government never learns...

Trying to shut down the underground economy expands the underground economy. An army of government goons couldn't even enforce this.

"Hey man, meet in the back alley at midnight and I'll sell you this weedwhacker for $50 cash."

Tipsycatlover
10-26-2011, 09:19 AM
Nothing is going to get rid of the guy selling a weedwhacker in an alley. A couple of tons of stolen scrap is another thing altogether.

Novaheart
10-26-2011, 03:20 PM
Silly government never learns...

Trying to shut down the underground economy expands the underground economy. An army of government goons couldn't even enforce this.

"Hey man, meet in the back alley at midnight and I'll sell you this weedwhacker for $50 cash."

Is it a Stihl?

Odysseus
10-26-2011, 04:49 PM
Nothing is going to get rid of the guy selling a weedwhacker in an alley. A couple of tons of stolen scrap is another thing altogether.

But they'll happily prosecute both. Remember, when selling weedwhackers is outlawed, only outlaws will have weedwhackers.

Rockntractor
10-26-2011, 04:59 PM
Is it a Stihl?

I have the top of the line stihl, $550.00

Tipsycatlover
10-26-2011, 05:55 PM
But they'll happily prosecute both. Remember, when selling weedwhackers is outlawed, only outlaws will have weedwhackers.

This law won't address some guy selling his weedwhacker, or selling Grandma's necklace either. The business fills out a form. That means it has to be a business, not an individual.

Novaheart
10-26-2011, 08:04 PM
I have the top of the line stihl, $550.00

<---------------- envious

Odysseus
10-26-2011, 11:24 PM
There are a lot of people who whack their weeds here. Just sayin' :D

fettpett
10-26-2011, 11:29 PM
There are a lot of people who whack their weeds here. Just sayin' :D

is that what they call what Ape does with his toes these days?

Rockntractor
10-26-2011, 11:41 PM
is that what they call what Ape does with his toes these days?


I never tire of posting this!:D
http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/vv230/upyourstruly/monkey_sleeping_tree.jpg

















i

RobJohnson
03-30-2014, 05:02 AM
I have the top of the line stihl, $550.00

I'll give you fifty bucks for it if it still runs. :biggrin-new:

noonwitch
03-31-2014, 01:14 PM
New Orleans prostitutes, too? http://www.conservativeunderground.com/forum505/images/smilies/eek.gif


Cut out the middle man and just pay them in drugs.


Seriously, though, doesn't this destroy the tradition of garage sales?