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Arroyo_Doble
10-21-2011, 04:39 PM
All U.S. troops to leave Iraq by the end of 2011 (http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/all-us-troops-to-leave-iraq/2011/10/21/gIQAUyJi3L_story.html)


The Obama administration has decided to withdraw all U.S. forces from Iraq by the end of the year after failing to reach an agreement with the Iraqi government that would have left several thousand troops there for special operations and training.

President Obama and Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki spoke Friday morning to cement that agreement in a scheduled telephone call.

The two leaders also agreed to continue informally discussing the need for and the terms of a U.S. military presence in Iraq into next year, people familiar with the agreement said. As a result, the only U.S. military presence that will remain in Iraq after the end of the year will be the roughly 150 troops needed to protect the large U.S. Embassy compound in Baghdad and its thousands of American diplomats and other personnel, as well as provide training related to new military sales and other tasks.

“The rest of our troops in Iraq will come home at the end of the year,” Obama said Friday at the White House. “After nearly nine years, America’s war in Iraq will be over.”

The failure to reach an agreement could pose security problems for the Iraqi government, still largely divided by sect and ethnicity, and for an Obama administration that inherited the war but has pledged an orderly withdrawal.


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Nine years is a long time.

Rockntractor
10-21-2011, 04:53 PM
Now remove all troops from Afghanistan.

lacarnut
10-21-2011, 05:37 PM
Now remove all troops from Afghanistan.

Good. Long, long overdue.

Dan D. Doty
10-21-2011, 06:44 PM
As soon as are guys pull out, the real trouble starts; its going to make everything that came before look a lemonade social.

rjas77
10-21-2011, 07:05 PM
If I'm not mistaken, did Bush's own timeline suggest Troops will be out by 2012?

Witmaster
10-21-2011, 07:25 PM
I'm curious to see just how much equipment we are leaving behind. Our footprint there is so unimaginably HUGE... there is simply no way to get it all out by the end of the year.

Not that I care though... they can have the place. I personally have absolutely no problem with leaving this whole god-forsaken region in the rear-view mirror and never looking back.

Tipsycatlover
10-21-2011, 08:22 PM
Our troops need to come home now. We are going to be having one pot load of trouble in the near future. We need to preserve them for the future combat to come.

Apocalypse
10-21-2011, 08:29 PM
The Obama administration has decided to withdraw all U.S. forces from Iraq

Obama didn't decide shit.

Obama was told by the Iraq Gov. to get them out. That they didn't want them there any longer and were no longer welcomed.

Obama is just trying to spin another failure into a political win.

Lanie
10-21-2011, 09:02 PM
All U.S. troops to leave Iraq by the end of 2011 (http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/all-us-troops-to-leave-iraq/2011/10/21/gIQAUyJi3L_story.html)


The Obama administration has decided to withdraw all U.S. forces from Iraq by the end of the year after failing to reach an agreement with the Iraqi government that would have left several thousand troops there for special operations and training.

President Obama and Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki spoke Friday morning to cement that agreement in a scheduled telephone call.

The two leaders also agreed to continue informally discussing the need for and the terms of a U.S. military presence in Iraq into next year, people familiar with the agreement said. As a result, the only U.S. military presence that will remain in Iraq after the end of the year will be the roughly 150 troops needed to protect the large U.S. Embassy compound in Baghdad and its thousands of American diplomats and other personnel, as well as provide training related to new military sales and other tasks.

“The rest of our troops in Iraq will come home at the end of the year,” Obama said Friday at the White House. “After nearly nine years, America’s war in Iraq will be over.”

The failure to reach an agreement could pose security problems for the Iraqi government, still largely divided by sect and ethnicity, and for an Obama administration that inherited the war but has pledged an orderly withdrawal.


****************************************

Nine years is a long time.


Nine years is a long time, but I fear that it will all go to heck if they're not secure. When exactly did we leave Europe again?

I still think we shouldn't go to war unless we'll finish.

Oh, and that's a convenient date to withdraw. He could have done it three years ago, but that would have been forgotten by now.

Lanie
10-21-2011, 09:04 PM
Obama didn't decide shit.

Obama was told by the Iraq Gov. to get them out. That they didn't want them there any longer and were no longer welcomed.

Obama is just trying to spin another failure into a political win.

Well, if they were trying to reach agreements about how to do things, then perhaps they didn't want us completely out just yet.


Seriously, would people drop dead of a heart attack if they gave Obama credit for something?

Odysseus
10-21-2011, 09:06 PM
I'm curious to see just how much equipment we are leaving behind. Our footprint there is so unimaginably HUGE... there is simply no way to get it all out by the end of the year.

Not that I care though... they can have the place. I personally have absolutely no problem with leaving this whole god-forsaken region in the rear-view mirror and never looking back.
The cost of repatriation of the equipment would be more than the value of the equipment, but given that Iraq and Iran are very likely to form a Shiite alliance, we ought to be looking at ways to scuttle what we leave, and park the rest in Kuwait for when we have to go back.

Obama didn't decide shit.

Obama was told by the Iraq Gov. to get them out. That they didn't want them there any longer and were no longer welcomed.

Obama is just trying to spin another failure into a political win.

It's worse than that.

A few days ago, Iraq announced a discussion between Turkey, Iran, Saudi Arabia and Iraq, as part of Iraq's Quartet initiative. This came from an agreement between the speakers of Iraq's and Iran's parliaments in Switzerland, but was not vetted by the Iraqi political blocs (the Sunni and Kurdish blocs would have opposed it). The United States was excluded from this initiative. They know that we are leaving and that they have to work through their neighboring states, each of which sees itself as the logical leader of the Islamic ummah and the others as contemptible apostates. The Turks want the Kurds suppressed, the Saudis want Iran excluded and the Iraqi Sunnis empowered and Iran wants to expand its influence and establish a second Shiite theocracy. None of these players has any love for us and will act against us at every opportunity. To the Saudis, the Shiites are apostates, whose rule in Iraq was orchestrated by the US. The Turks see us as allies of the Kurds. Iran continues to see us as the Great Satan. So, what we have are three powers whose sole area of agreement is that they don't want us to referee in Iraq anymore, which means that there will be a resumption of the civil war that we suppressed with the Surge.

Rockntractor
10-21-2011, 09:06 PM
Well, if they were trying to reach agreements about how to do things, then perhaps they didn't want us completely out just yet.


Seriously, would people drop dead of a heart attack if they gave Obama credit for something?

I would drop dead of a heart attack if you ever posted something beyond the intellect of a two year old!

Lanie
10-21-2011, 09:07 PM
I'm curious to see just how much equipment we are leaving behind. Our footprint there is so unimaginably HUGE... there is simply no way to get it all out by the end of the year.

Not that I care though... they can have the place. I personally have absolutely no problem with leaving this whole god-forsaken region in the rear-view mirror and never looking back.

You don't worry about the place being overran by rebels who hate our guts and will ultimately try to kill us ten years down the road?

Iraq is like a new country because it's revolutionizing. Revolutions are not quick, nor are they bloodless.

DumbAss Tanker
10-21-2011, 09:44 PM
... there will be a resumption of the civil war that we suppressed with the Surge.


That's the way I see it as well. However, I am not entirely sure that this sudden development is entirely unanticipated by the WH, I have a dark suspicion that they maneuvered themselves into this 'No choice' position knowingly over some time, with the concept of playing Iraqi nationalism off against one of the DOD's key minimum necessary conditions for staying to see the mission through (Exclusive US jurisdiction over our own military personnel), for the perceived advantage with the Dem base of getting entirely out of Iraq while maintaining plausible deniability for 'Cutting and running.'

If it's indeed the latter, I believe they've seriously misjudged things, because once we are gone it is probably not going to take all that long for Iraq to stop looking like any kind of success story at all. The JAM and all the other militias should be off to the races by late Spring.

lacarnut
10-21-2011, 09:46 PM
You don't worry about the place being overran by rebels who hate our guts and will ultimately try to kill us ten years down the road?

.

No. Thousands of our soldiers have been killed needlessly. Let's get out now, and if they want to kill us 10 years down the road, the threat or use of tens/hundreds or thousands of nukes by us should shut up the heathens in the M.E.

Odysseus
10-21-2011, 10:44 PM
That's the way I see it as well. However, I am not entirely sure that this sudden development is entirely unanticipated by the WH, I have a dark suspicion that they maneuvered themselves into this 'No choice' position knowingly over some time, with the concept of playing Iraqi nationalism off against one of the DOD's key minimum necessary conditions for staying to see the mission through (Exclusive US jurisdiction over our own military personnel), for the perceived advantage with the Dem base of getting entirely out of Iraq while maintaining plausible deniability for 'Cutting and running.'

If it's indeed the latter, I believe they've seriously misjudged things, because once we are gone it is probably not going to take all that long for Iraq to stop looking like any kind of success story at all. The JAM and all the other militias should be off to the races by late Spring.

Agreed. It is entirely possible that by failing to adequately address Status of Forces, they set themselves up to be "forced" out of Iraq. I also agree that things are going to hit the fan shortly. Jaish al Mahdi is going to ramp up ops in concert with Iran, and the Turks will be all over Kurdistan. The Sunni will have no choice but to take help from the Saudis, which will pretty much guarantee the undoing of the "Anbar Awakening" and any semblance of peace. The biggest losers in this are the Kurds, the Sunni and us.

Rockntractor
10-21-2011, 10:54 PM
Agreed. It is entirely possible that by failing to adequately address Status of Forces, they set themselves up to be "forced" out of Iraq. I also agree that things are going to hit the fan shortly. Jaish al Mahdi is going to ramp up ops in concert with Iran, and the Turks will be all over Kurdistan. The Sunni will have no choice but to take help from the Saudis, which will pretty much guarantee the undoing of the "Anbar Awakening" and any semblance of peace. The biggest losers in this are the Kurds, the Sunni and us.

Obama was shaking his bony finger at the turds earlier this week for giving the turkeys trouble!

Odysseus
10-21-2011, 11:08 PM
Obama was shaking his bony finger at the turds earlier this week for giving the turkeys trouble!

The Kurds have truly had a miserable time of it over the years. Woodrow Wilson all but promised them their own country, but didn't have the clout to pull it off, and they had to deal with partition between Iraq, Iran, Syria and Turkey. Being a minority in any of those countries is a miserable lot, and they've stood their ground admirably. Since Turkey is rapidly moving away from the US and NATO, Iraq is preparing to screw us over and Iran and Syria have been on our $#/+ list for decades, the best thing that we could do would be to arm the Kurds to the teeth and give them the means to carve out their own nation out of the Kurdish enclaves in the region. The Kurds are better fighters than anyone else between the Jordan River and the Hindu Kush, and with the proper equipment and training, they could easily defeat the regional powers. Of course, the Iraqi Sunnis would be screwed by that policy, but they were Saddam's henchmen long enough that I'm really not that interested in what happens to them.

fettpett
10-21-2011, 11:13 PM
Seeing as the Iraqis would not give our soldiers immunity if they accidentally killed someone and would charge them with murder, pulling out is the best choice.

however, this was a HORRIBLE foreign affairs blunder by this administration, just one of a long list of them that started with giving the Brits some Region 1 DVD's

Rockntractor
10-21-2011, 11:29 PM
The Kurds have truly had a miserable time of it over the years. Woodrow Wilson all but promised them their own country, but didn't have the clout to pull it off, and they had to deal with partition between Iraq, Iran, Syria and Turkey. Being a minority in any of those countries is a miserable lot, and they've stood their ground admirably. Since Turkey is rapidly moving away from the US and NATO, Iraq is preparing to screw us over and Iran and Syria have been on our $#/+ list for decades, the best thing that we could do would be to arm the Kurds to the teeth and give them the means to carve out their own nation out of the Kurdish enclaves in the region. The Kurds are better fighters than anyone else between the Jordan River and the Hindu Kush, and with the proper equipment and training, they could easily defeat the regional powers. Of course, the Iraqi Sunnis would be screwed by that policy, but they were Saddam's henchmen long enough that I'm really not that interested in what happens to them.

Some of them still speak Aramaic, the language of Jesus. The kurds had the Peshitta manuscript of the new testament. It is obvious why they are hated by Obama and Islam.

noworries
10-22-2011, 12:12 AM
I think that when the troops leave then the s@*t will hit the fan and all hell is going to break loose

txradioguy
10-22-2011, 06:30 AM
No. Thousands of our soldiers have been killed needlessly. Let's get out now, and if they want to kill us 10 years down the road, the threat or use of tens/hundreds or thousands of nukes by us should shut up the heathens in the M.E.

With all due respect...kiss my ass on your "killed needlessly" comment.

You sound like Lanie and the rest of the Libtards with that sentiment.

Tipsycatlover
10-22-2011, 08:53 AM
Judging from what's going on. Not what democrats want to go on, but what's really going on. Iraq has realized that if they become a western type free democracy it will be surrounded by fundamentalist islamic regimes. Better to get us out and join in the formation of the new Caliphate now.

newshutr
10-22-2011, 09:27 AM
How many weeks until Iran starts crossing over the border on a more frequent basis..??

ironhorsedriver
10-22-2011, 09:56 AM
Well, if they were trying to reach agreements about how to do things, then perhaps they didn't want us completely out just yet.


Seriously, would people drop dead of a heart attack if they gave Obama credit for something?
No, however; Obama had nothing to do with the decision, Iraq told him to leave. He's just spinning. Next question, seriously, do you really not see how big a disaster Obama is. He's proved himself incompetent and over his head, from foreign policy to economy.

Odysseus
10-22-2011, 10:11 AM
Some of them still speak Aramaic, the language of Jesus. The kurds had the Peshitta manuscript of the new testament. It is obvious why they are hated by Obama and Islam.
I don't think that Obama knows enough about them to hate them. They're simply not on his radar. To Obama, Iraq is just another example of imperialist America at its worst, and the sooner we get our corrupt western values out of there, the sooner the authentic culture can reassert itself. The fact that the authentic culture is a hellish cesspool of Medieval ignorance and hatred doesn't penetrate, because, like most multiculturalists, he doesn't actually know anything about the cultures that he is pretending to admire.

I think that when the troops leave then the s@*t will hit the fan and all hell is going to break loose
It's already happening. Terror attacks are increasing along sectarian lines.

Judging from what's going on. Not what democrats want to go on, but what's really going on. Iraq has realized that if they become a western type free democracy it will be surrounded by fundamentalist islamic regimes. Better to get us out and join in the formation of the new Caliphate now.
It's more than that. Iraq has a Shiite majority and Sunni and Kurdish minorities. The Turks are Sunni, but ethnically non-Arab and see the Arabs as backwards desert lowlives (which is a major source of friction). They want to defeat their Kurdish insurgents and restore the last Caliphate, which was under Turkish (Ottoman) control. Iran is a Shiite theocracy that wants to establish anschluss with the Iraqi Shia. They see Sunni Islam as the heresy and want to lead the next Caliphate along the lines of the Fatamids, but far more militantly. The Saudis want to protect the Sunnis in Iraq from the apostate Shia and see themselves as the heirs to the Caliphate by virtue of their control of Mecca and Medina and in accordance with Wahhabism. Geographically, Iraq borders all three, plus Syria (and others, but those other borders aren't issues right now). Syria is a Sunni majority state run by an Alawite minority (the Alawi are a Shia offshoot), and allied with Iran. This give Iran leverage on two borders at opposite ends of the country, and an Iraqi/Iranian alliance would facilitate supply of Syria and Iran. The problem for the Iraqi Shiites is avoiding civil war and keeping on Iran's good side without alienating the other powers. Without an honest broker on the ground, this is impossible, so the second choice is to try to keep the major players from doing too much mischief, by giving them a seat at the table. Iraq is basically ceding some of its sovereignty in return for a measure of stability.

How many weeks until Iran starts crossing over the border on a more frequent basis..??

Weeks? Try minutes.

Witmaster
10-22-2011, 10:19 AM
You don't worry about the place being overran by rebels who hate our guts and will ultimately try to kill us ten years down the road?

Iraq is like a new country because it's revolutionizing. Revolutions are not quick, nor are they bloodless.

Hell no I don't worry about it.

Tipsycatlover
10-22-2011, 10:19 AM
I don't think that Obama knows enough about them to hate them. They're simply not on his radar. To Obama, Iraq is just another example of imperialist America at its worst, and the sooner we get our corrupt western values out of there, the sooner the authentic culture can reassert itself. The fact that the authentic culture is a hellish cesspool of Medieval ignorance and hatred doesn't penetrate, because, like most multiculturalists, he doesn't actually know anything about the cultures that he is pretending to admire.

It's already happening. Terror attacks are increasing along sectarian lines.

It's more than that. Iraq has a Shiite majority and Sunni and Kurdish minorities. The Turks are Sunni, but ethnically non-Arab and see the Arabs as backwards desert lowlives (which is a major source of friction). They want to defeat their Kurdish insurgents and restore the last Caliphate, which was under Turkish (Ottoman) control. Iran is a Shiite theocracy that wants to establish anschluss with the Iraqi Shia. They see Sunni Islam as the heresy and want to lead the next Caliphate along the lines of the Fatamids, but far more militantly. The Saudis want to protect the Sunnis in Iraq from the apostate Shia and see themselves as the heirs to the Caliphate by virtue of their control of Mecca and Medina and in accordance with Wahhabism. Geographically, Iraq borders all three, plus Syria (and others, but those other borders aren't issues right now). Syria is a Sunni majority state run by an Alawite minority (the Alawi are a Shia offshoot), and allied with Iran. This give Iran leverage on two borders at opposite ends of the country, and an Iraqi/Iranian alliance would facilitate supply of Syria and Iran. The problem for the Iraqi Shiites is avoiding civil war and keeping on Iran's good side without alienating the other powers. Without an honest broker on the ground, this is impossible, so the second choice is to try to keep the major players from doing too much mischief, by giving them a seat at the table. Iraq is basically ceding some of its sovereignty in return for a measure of stability.


Weeks? Try minutes.

A superlative analysis of what is really happening in Iraq. Too bad our leaders are too stupid to realize this themselves.

Odysseus
10-22-2011, 10:27 AM
Hell no I don't worry about it.
If Iraq falls, it will become no different from the rest of the region. It's not revolutionizing, but going through sectarian violence. The only real ideologies at play are Shia vs. Sunni, and at this point, that's like the old lite beer commercials ("Tastes great!" "Less filling!" "Let the Sunnah decide!" "Twelfth Imam!"). A decade from now, it will either be a Shiite-majority dictatorship with the trappings of a democracy, an Iranian protectorate a la Syria/Lebanon, or a smoldering sheet of glass.

A superlative analysis of what is really happening in Iraq. Too bad our leaders are too stupid to realize this themselves.

Aw... Shucks, ma'am. 'Tweren't nothin'. :o

lacarnut
10-22-2011, 10:41 AM
With all due respect...kiss my ass on your "killed needlessly" comment.

You sound like Lanie and the rest of the Libtards with that sentiment.

Sorry you feel that way. I volunteered for the draft in the 50's. My position on going to war is to win and anhilate the enemey. We did not do that in Korea, VN. and Iraq. These police actions and nation building are just bs. It greeves me with every soldier lost and I do not feel their sacrifice was worth it. Finaly, I don't have a lib bone in my body.

CueSi
10-22-2011, 10:48 AM
Well, if they were trying to reach agreements about how to do things, then perhaps they didn't want us completely out just yet.


Seriously, would people drop dead of a heart attack if they gave Obama credit for something?

I would, if I hadn't heard Bush and/or Petraeus bat that date around first.

~QC

Witmaster
10-22-2011, 11:09 AM
If Iraq falls, it will become no different from the rest of the region. It's not revolutionizing, but going through sectarian violence. The only real ideologies at play are Shia vs. Sunni, and at this point, that's like the old lite beer commercials ("Tastes great!" "Less filling!" "Let the Sunnah decide!" "Twelfth Imam!"). A decade from now, it will either be a Shiite-majority dictatorship with the trappings of a democracy, an Iranian protectorate a la Syria/Lebanon, or a smoldering sheet of glass.


I'll take door #3 sir.

I thought about trying to verbalize a thorough response but... it's so frustrating to me. I believe I can safely assume you have been there and have seen firsthand the folly of the current "COIN" mission. I'm sure you can understand and (possibly even) share in the frustration of it all.

I squarely admit I have lost total faith in "COIN". Given the constraints we are forced to "play" by added to the current disdain held by our current leadership, I'm done with this place. My only focus now is to look out for my men and their needs. We've lost several men in the past 3 months, one a particularly close friend of mine. Perhaps I am bitter.... No.... I can assure you... I AM bitter.

I'm sure you understand the rage I feel when I see an intelligence report about the suspected insurgent responsible for the deaths... then I see his picture. It's a mug shot, he's wearing an orange jump-suit... the photo was taken at Guantanamo bay. At one point we HAD this F'n bastard. Then some bleeding heart liberal doo-gooder decides we have to let this guy go because his civil rights are far superior than the lives of Americans. Now he's back out here, killing my guys. It pisses me off to levels beyond description.

So, regarding Lanie’s question, NO… I honestly have no worry about “Rebels” coming back in and taking over Iraq and then trying to kill us all 10 years later. I fully expect that to happen, only I seriously doubt it would take 10 years.

namvet
10-22-2011, 12:02 PM
after we're gone both countries' will fall under the sword. back to square one. remember vietnam???

and bozo tried to negotiate a peace agreement with the tali butts. they said yes. as soon as your ass is gone

Tipsycatlover
10-22-2011, 03:00 PM
obama sold the troops out.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/M/ML_IRAQ?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2011-10-22-09-02-22

"When the Americans asked for immunity, the Iraqi side answered that it was not possible," al-Maliki told a news conference Saturday. "The discussions over the number of trainers and the place of training stopped. Now that the issue of immunity was decided and that no immunity to be given, the withdrawal has started."

When Obama announced Friday that all American forces would leave Iraq by the end of the year, he did not mention the immunity issue, portraying the decision as the fulfillment of one of his main campaign promises to end the conflict.

obama didn't tell you that did he?

txradioguy
10-22-2011, 03:01 PM
Sorry you feel that way. I volunteered for the draft in the 50's. My position on going to war is to win and anhilate the enemey. We did not do that in Korea, VN. and Iraq. These police actions and nation building are just bs.

We didn't annihilate the enemy in Iraq? Guess you were in a different war there than I was.


It greeves me with every soldier lost and I do not feel their sacrifice was worth it.

Bullshit. If you truly grieve then you would feel the sacrifice was worth it. I bet your buddies that died in Korea really appreciate your sentiment too.

You're just giving lip service to hollow words.


Finaly, I don't have a lib bone in my body.

Then quit talking like them.

Odysseus
10-22-2011, 03:52 PM
I'll take door #3 sir.

I thought about trying to verbalize a thorough response but... it's so frustrating to me. I believe I can safely assume you have been there and have seen firsthand the folly of the current "COIN" mission. I'm sure you can understand and (possibly even) share in the frustration of it all.
My last time there was before the surge, and I was a fobbit, but I saw the daily BUBs to the CG of the theater logistics CG in Balad and had a pretty good idea of what was going on, at least at the macro level.


I squarely admit I have lost total faith in "COIN". Given the constraints we are forced to "play" by added to the current disdain held by our current leadership, I'm done with this place. My only focus now is to look out for my men and their needs. We've lost several men in the past 3 months, one a particularly close friend of mine. Perhaps I am bitter.... No.... I can assure you... I AM bitter.
I'm sorry to hear that, both the loss and the bitterness. COIN only works if you really understand the culture that you're dealing with, and know who you are fighting and why. The problem with Iraq is that it isn't a war, so much as a battle against a global jihad, and until we recognize that, we're just putting band aids on cancer.


I'm sure you understand the rage I feel when I see an intelligence report about the suspected insurgent responsible for the deaths... then I see his picture. It's a mug shot, he's wearing an orange jump-suit... the photo was taken at Guantanamo bay. At one point we HAD this F'n bastard. Then some bleeding heart liberal doo-gooder decides we have to let this guy go because his civil rights are far superior than the lives of Americans. Now he's back out here, killing my guys. It pisses me off to levels beyond description.

So, regarding Lanie’s question, NO… I honestly have no worry about “Rebels” coming back in and taking over Iraq and then trying to kill us all 10 years later. I fully expect that to happen, only I seriously doubt it would take 10 years.
I expect that the killers will be at each others' throats long before they go after ours. The best thing that we can do is maintain a punitive force which can engage them on their own turf with overwhelming force, whenever they do something that we don't like, and once done, leave them to lick their wounds and contemplate how badly they want to piss us off. People forget that the bulk of the Marshall Plan was spent on allies that had been devastated, with the Germans only coming in for aid because they fell under the same umbrella. Rebuilding nations that were never nations in the first place makes no sense, and rewarding your enemies for being enemies simply encourages more of the same.

Tipsycatlover
10-22-2011, 04:19 PM
Wasn't rewarding enemies for being enemies the whole point of "The Mouse That Roared"?

Odysseus
10-22-2011, 05:05 PM
Wasn't rewarding enemies for being enemies the whole point of "The Mouse That Roared"?

Yep. That was the point of it. But now, we don't even bother winning the wars before we begin buying off our enemies.

Tipsycatlover
10-22-2011, 05:18 PM
Our troops were supposed to get immunity which was agreed to and supported by al-Maliki. The objection came from cleric Al Sadr who said that if Americans had killed anyone or violated islamic law by drinking on isllamic ground they should be found and prosecuted. Obama gave in.

This isn't over by a long shot.

linda22003
10-23-2011, 10:27 AM
It greeves me with every soldier lost and I do not feel their sacrifice was worth it.

I agree with everything you said here except, of course, the spelling of "grieves".

lacarnut
10-23-2011, 07:20 PM
I agree with everything you said here except, of course, the spelling of "grieves".

I am on vacation and it grieves me to type on this small PC notebook. :)

Rockntractor
10-23-2011, 07:45 PM
We didn't annihilate the enemy in Iraq? Guess you were in a different war there than I was.



Bullshit. If you truly grieve then you would feel the sacrifice was worth it. I bet your buddies that died in Korea really appreciate your sentiment too.

You're just giving lip service to hollow words.



Then quit talking like them.

You are lashing out at the wrong people, Obama stole defeat from the jaws of victory.

txradioguy
10-24-2011, 03:29 AM
You are lashing out at the wrong people, Obama stole defeat from the jaws of victory.

No it's directed at the right person...the one saying that the deaths in Iraq were not worth the sacrifice.

That's crap. That's Libspeak...something that you'd expect from Wee Wee or Bridget.

RobJohnson
10-24-2011, 03:46 AM
Seriously, would people drop dead of a heart attack if they gave Obama credit for something?

I give him credit for taking expensive vacations, bailouts to save the UAW, and running up our debt.

How's that?

Rockntractor
10-24-2011, 09:17 AM
No it's directed at the right person...the one saying that the deaths in Iraq were not worth the sacrifice.

That's crap. That's Libspeak...something that you'd expect from Wee Wee or Bridget.

Obama is handing what was bought with a high price to Iran, it is only a matter of time.

Tipsycatlover
10-24-2011, 09:23 AM
Obama is handing what was bought with a high price to Iran, it is only a matter of time.

That is exactly what he did. Iran has long wanted to control Iraq. That was the reason the US supported Saddam Hussein in the first place.

All Iran had to do was wait it out until the US got a muslim in the white house.

Rockntractor
10-24-2011, 11:32 AM
That is exactly what he did. Iran has long wanted to control Iraq. That was the reason the US supported Saddam Hussein in the first place.

All Iran had to do was wait it out until the US got a muslim in the white house.

It does not diminish the nobility and sacrifice of our soldiers, but it did take away the prize.

Odysseus
10-24-2011, 11:49 AM
Obama is handing what was bought with a high price to Iran, it is only a matter of time.

He didn't pay it, so why should he care?

Tipsycatlover
10-24-2011, 11:56 AM
Will anyone notice that the majority of deaths in Iraq came after obama changed the Rules of Engagement and blame him for needless loss of life?

DumbAss Tanker
10-24-2011, 02:31 PM
Will anyone notice that the majority of deaths in Iraq came after obama changed the Rules of Engagement and blame him for needless loss of life?

Not on the Left. They only count Iraqi civilian dead if they can blame it on Bush or the US military. Just look at how concerned they were about the Kurds and Shi'a under Saddam. Their sincere concern about anything but their own political power is as shallow as a puddle left on a salt flat by a 15-minute rain squall.

noworries
10-24-2011, 04:46 PM
It does not diminish the nobility and sacrifice of our soldiers, but it did take away the prize.

The ones that have given their lives is who I greive for them and their families at the end of the day that is what counts I think

Odysseus
10-24-2011, 04:51 PM
Not on the Left. They only count Iraqi civilian dead if they can blame it on Bush or the US military. Just look at how concerned they were about the Kurds and Shi'a under Saddam. Their sincere concern about anything but their own political power is as shallow as a puddle left on a salt flat by a 15-minute rain squall.

I had a ball watching Cindy Sheehan try to get attention after Bush left the White House. When she was protesting against Obama and running against the Pelosi, the media wouldn't give her the time of day, and she couldn't understand it, since they were so supportive during the Bush administration. She really believed that they cared about what she had to say, and weren't using her as a tool against an administration that they hated.

noworries
10-24-2011, 04:54 PM
I had a ball watching Cindy Sheehan try to get attention after Bush left the White House. When she was protesting against Obama and running against the Pelosi, the media wouldn't give her the time of day, and she couldn't understand it, since they were so supportive during the Bush administration. She really believed that they cared about what she had to say, and weren't using her as a tool against an administration that they hated.

I did as well she is no longer useful to them so they threw her away it was priceless;)

Odysseus
10-24-2011, 06:06 PM
National Review editorial on the pullout:


The Editors
http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/281039/iraq-withdrawal-gift-iran-editors
October 24, 2011 4:00 A.M.

Iraq Withdrawal, a Gift to Iran

If the Iranians pride themselves on playing chess while we play checkers, they never could have expected us to walk away from the board.

But that’s our next move in Iraq. President Obama announced on Friday that all of the roughly 40,000 U.S. troops will leave the country by the end of the year. We are thus handing the Iranians a goal they have sought for years — to remove us from Iraq entirely so they can better influence the country for their ends.

It once seemed that Iraq could be a strategic ally and base for our influence in the Middle East; it now may become both those things for our foremost enemy in the region. The Iranians must think they either are very lucky or — more likely very good. The announcement of our total withdrawal comes just weeks after the revelation of an Iranian plot to execute the Saudi ambassador to the U.S. on our soil. It comes as Iran’s key Arab ally, the Assad regime in Syria, is rocked by a revolt. Just as Tehran’s dangerousness is put in stark relief and as events in Syria threaten to deal it a strategic setback, it gets this windfall.

The Obama administration is talking out of both sides of its mouth on Iraq. On the one hand, it says the total withdrawal is the blessed advent of one of President Obama’s most cherished campaign promises, proof of how committed he’s always been to ending the Iraq War. On the other, it says on background that this is all the Iraqis’ fault, that we wanted to maintain troops on the ground after 2011 but the Iraqis wouldn’t budge. It appears that the first factor played into the second — the administration’s lack of commitment to Iraq was the crucial backdrop to its poor handling of inherently difficult negotiations with the Iraqis.

To continue to maintain troops in Iraq after the expiration of the current deal for our presence at the end of the year, we needed the Iraqis to agree to give our troops immunity. This is obviously always a sensitive issue. And negotiations with the Iraqis over almost anything tend to drag out to the breaking point. None of this should have necessarily deep-sixed a deal, given how many top Iraqi leaders say privately that they want to keep American forces in the country. The Obama administration foolishly insisted that the Iraqi Council of Representatives endorse an immunity deal, a political impossibility. But it’s hard to believe that if the administration truly wanted to make a deal happen it couldn’t have worked something out with enough patience and ingenuity.

Instead, President Obama took to the podium on Friday for a snap announcement of the end of the war. His commanders on the ground wanted to keep more than 20,000 troops in Iraq (the administration had bid this number down to several thousand, perhaps convincing Iraqi political players that cutting a painful deal on immunity wouldn’t have enough of a corresponding upside). Such a force would have enhanced our political leverage in Baghdad, checked Iran’s already considerable influence, ensured against a return of al-Qaeda, and helped keep a lid on Arab–Kurdish tensions in the north. Now, we’ll simply have to hope for the best. Deputy National Security Advisor Dennis McDonough said Iraq is “secure, stable, and self-reliant.” It is none of these things. Its government is still inchoate and it is not capable of defending itself from Iran in the air or on the ground.

Our pullout is a bonanza for Tehran. Its militias were already active in Iraq. Now, it can use Iraq for bases for its proxy forces to spread its tentacles in the rest of the Persian Gulf. Independent ayotollahs in Iraq will have an incentive to keep their heads down. Political decisions of the Iranian-influenced Shiite bloc running the country are sure to begin to tilt more and more Iran’s way. Our diplomatic leverage will diminish, even as maintain our largest embassy in the world in Baghdad. The Iranians will crow in Iraq and throughout the region that they were right that the Americans would eventually leave.

We expended a great deal of blood and treasure to topple Saddam Hussein, and then to establish enough order so that George W. Bush’s successor would only have to consolidate our gains. President Obama is careless enough to risk throwing it all away, and shameless enough to call it success.

RobJohnson
10-25-2011, 01:42 AM
I did as well she is no longer useful to them so they threw her away it was priceless;)

The best part was that Code Pink had to put their shirts back on.... :vomit:

So many on the left actually claim that "Obama has done everything he promised to do..." :bounce:

I appreciate every uniform (including the cvilians) that have had to leave home to travel to the Middle East to protect our freedoms & keep us safe here on our own soil, when those in uniform were anything but safe. I pray for the families that lost loved ones during the WOT. "Some Gave All' to protect not only Americans, but God's innocent children worldwide.




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydWhRObVxrM

txradioguy
10-25-2011, 01:46 AM
So many on the left actually claim that "Obama has done everything he promised to do..." :bounce:



Including Obama himself. He actually said on camera the other day that he believes that every decision they've made the last three years has been the right decision.

noworries
10-25-2011, 06:37 AM
The best part was that Code Pink had to put their shirts back on.... :vomit:

So many on the left actually claim that "Obama has done everything he promised to do..." :bounce:

I appreciate every uniform (including the cvilians) that have had to leave home to travel to the Middle East to protect our freedoms & keep us safe here on our own soil, when those in uniform were anything but safe. I pray for the families that lost loved ones during the WOT. "Some Gave All' to protect not only Americans, but God's innocent children worldwide.




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydWhRObVxrM

That song sums it all up

noworries
10-25-2011, 06:38 AM
Including Obama himself. He actually said on camera the other day that he believes that every decision they've made the last three years has been the right decision.

If he really thinks that is true well then I am the damn queen of England:mad:

jediab
10-25-2011, 10:01 AM
If he really thinks that is true well then I am the damn queen of England:mad:

Welcome to CU Your Highness! :D

noonwitch
10-25-2011, 01:01 PM
I had a ball watching Cindy Sheehan try to get attention after Bush left the White House. When she was protesting against Obama and running against the Pelosi, the media wouldn't give her the time of day, and she couldn't understand it, since they were so supportive during the Bush administration. She really believed that they cared about what she had to say, and weren't using her as a tool against an administration that they hated.



I was very irritated with DU during Cindy Sheehan's protests at the Bush ranch. I told them they were enabling a mentally ill woman who needed to come to terms with her grief, not be exploited by a bunch of activists.

When she got arrested at the UN, a bunch of DUers sent money to bail her out. I told them that for that money, they could buy a bunch of bicycles for foster kids, or for poor kids. Riker's Island has psychiatrists on duty.

Tipsycatlover
10-26-2011, 01:29 PM
CIndy Sheehan long ago got over her grief and settled into to self-aggrandizement.

Molon Labe
10-26-2011, 02:50 PM
Including Obama himself. He actually said on camera the other day that he believes that every decision they've made the last three years has been the right decision.

and you can take that to the bank.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VlXfs1K04g

Odysseus
10-26-2011, 03:34 PM
If he really thinks that is true well then I am the damn queen of England:mad:
If you keep claiming to be the Queen of England, then you will keep getting Ipods from Obama.

I was very irritated with DU during Cindy Sheehan's protests at the Bush ranch. I told them they were enabling a mentally ill woman who needed to come to terms with her grief, not be exploited by a bunch of activists.

When she got arrested at the UN, a bunch of DUers sent money to bail her out. I told them that for that money, they could buy a bunch of bicycles for foster kids, or for poor kids. Riker's Island has psychiatrists on duty.

Since most of DU shares her mental illness (but without the trauma to excuse them), of course they were going to flame you.

fettpett
10-26-2011, 11:19 PM
If you keep claiming to be the Queen of England, then you will keep getting Ipods from Obama.


and Region 1 DVD's of 25 classic American films :D

Odysseus
10-26-2011, 11:25 PM
and Region 1 DVD's of 25 classic American films :D

No, that's for the PM. :D

fettpett
10-26-2011, 11:26 PM
No, that's for the PM. :D

they can share! put the dvd's on the ipod!:D

txradioguy
10-27-2011, 10:49 AM
http://media.townhall.com/Townhall/Car/b/cb102411dAPR20111025124518.jpg