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marv
10-25-2011, 10:20 AM
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204777904576651330270547222.html?m od=rss_opinion_main
(snip)

The plan starts with giving Americans a choice between a new, flat tax rate of 20% or their current income tax rate. The new flat tax preserves mortgage interest, charitable and state and local tax exemptions for families earning less than $500,000 annually, and it increases the standard deduction to $12,500 for individuals and dependents.

This simple 20% flat tax will allow Americans to file their taxes on a postcard, saving up to $483 billion in compliance costs. By eliminating the dozens of carve-outs that make the current code so incomprehensible, we will renew incentives for entrepreneurial risk-taking and investment that creates jobs, inspires Americans to work hard and forms the foundation of a strong economy. My plan also abolishes the death tax once and for all, providing needed certainty to American family farms and small businesses.

(snip)

First, we will lower the corporate tax rate to 20%—dropping it from the second highest in the developed world to a rate on par with our global competitors. Second, we will encourage the swift repatriation of some of the $1.4 trillion estimated to be parked overseas by temporarily lowering the rate to 5.25%. And third, we will transition to a "territorial tax system"—as seen in Hong Kong and France, for example—that only taxes in-country income.

(snip)

We should start moving toward fiscal responsibility by capping federal spending at 18% of our gross domestic product, banning earmarks and future bailouts, and passing a Balanced Budget Amendment to the Constitution. My plan freezes federal civilian hiring and salaries until the budget is balanced. And to fix the regulatory excess of the Obama administration and its predecessors, my plan puts an immediate moratorium on pending federal regulations and provides a full audit of all regulations passed since 2008 to determine their need, impact and effect on job creation.

ObamaCare, Dodd-Frank and Section 404 of Sarbanes-Oxley must be quickly repealed and, if necessary, replaced by market-oriented, common-sense measures.

(snip)
...these are just some highlights. Read the full WSJ article.

This much sounds good to me....but, again we need to see the details.

Tecate
10-25-2011, 12:29 PM
The devil is always in the details...

Arroyo_Doble
10-25-2011, 12:38 PM
The devil is always in the details...

The flat tax is on labor. Dividends and long term capital gains are not taxed.


I wish someone would have the balls to come out with a flat tax on all income.

Tecate
10-25-2011, 12:52 PM
The flat tax is on labor. Dividends and long term capital gains are not taxed.


I wish someone would have the balls to come out with a flat tax on all income.
I could get behind something like a Tobin tax where these insiders who make billions by simply pressing a button (and produce absolutely nothing) or manipulate the value of currencies around the world for their own gains would have to pay a percentage of their profits to the government.

The national debt would probably be eliminated in short order.

Molon Labe
10-25-2011, 03:47 PM
20% income tax rate? Screw Perry.

It's a real sad state of things when conservative means having to settle for higher taxes.

Looks like he made that up on the spot.

This makes Cain's 9% look craptastic.

Molon Labe
10-25-2011, 03:49 PM
The flat tax is on labor. Dividends and long term capital gains are not taxed.


I wish someone would have the balls to come out with a flat tax on all income.

It doesn't take balls....it takes stupidity.


You can run this country on the budget of 2002 without an income tax. I think that would be just fine.

Madisonian
10-25-2011, 05:12 PM
Under my plan, we will establish a clear goal of balancing the budget by 2020. It will be an extremely difficult task exacerbated by the current economic crisis and our need for significant tax cuts to spur growth. But that growth is what will get us to balance, if we are willing to make the hard decisions of cutting.

Another candidate wannabe that would not balance the budget until he is out of office.
More political bullshit.

Rockntractor
10-25-2011, 05:16 PM
Another candidate wannabe that would not balance the budget until he is out of office.
More political bullshit.

More wind from the Ron Paul man. .:rolleyes:

Tecate
10-25-2011, 05:31 PM
More wind from the Ron Paul man. .:rolleyes:
I know all of you guys have invested your entire identity in hating Ron Paul, but for the record, he's actually higher in the polls than Rick Perry right now.

I told you guys on the first day that Perry was a fraud and would flop fairly quickly.

Madisonian
10-25-2011, 06:05 PM
More wind from the Ron Paul man. .:rolleyes:

More witty commentary from the Porcine For Perry?:popcorn:

Rockntractor
10-25-2011, 06:09 PM
I know all of you guys have invested your entire identity in hating Ron Paul, but for the record, he's actually higher in the polls than Rick Perry right now.

I told you guys on the first day that Perry was a fraud and would flop fairly quickly.

I have a little hate left over for Mittens too!:D

Tecate
10-25-2011, 06:14 PM
I have a little hate left over for Mittens too!:D
Obamneycare, carbon taxes... There's plenty to hate.

Rockntractor
10-25-2011, 06:23 PM
Obamneycare, carbon taxes... There's plenty to hate.

I want Cain!

RobJohnson
10-26-2011, 03:23 AM
The flat tax is on labor. Dividends and long term capital gains are not taxed.


I wish someone would have the balls to come out with a flat tax on all income.

Most flat tax plans I have seen tax the consumer the most.
I really don't see any canidate getting rid of today's IRS any time soon...

txradioguy
10-26-2011, 04:59 AM
I know all of you guys have invested your entire identity in hating Ron Paul, but for the record, he's actually higher in the polls than Rick Perry right now.

I told you guys on the first day that Perry was a fraud and would flop fairly quickly.

You Ronulans say this every election cycle...yet he never finishes beyond 1% of the vote when it really matters.

Thank God this is his last failed attempt to convert the masses. Hopefully we won't have to hear from you cultists four years downt he road.

Tecate
10-26-2011, 06:36 AM
You Ronulans say this every election cycle...yet he never finishes beyond 1% of the vote when it really matters.

Thank God this is his last failed attempt to convert the masses. Hopefully we won't have to hear from you cultists four years downt he road.
Yes, clearly anyone who isn't for open borders, more wars, bloated government, and a worthless dollar must be a part of some cult.

I'm trying to figure out why the typical neocon doesn't like Obama. You should love him. He's toppling regimes at a rate Bush and Cheney never dreamed of, and I know how important dropping bombs on brown people in the desert is to you guys.

obx
10-26-2011, 07:24 AM
I want Cain!

Ditto!

marv
10-26-2011, 09:08 AM
The flat tax is on labor. Dividends and long term capital gains are not taxed.


I wish someone would have the balls to come out with a flat tax on all income.

Dividends have already been taxed once. Capital gains are the result of risk investment. The gains shouldn't be taxed, and the losses shouldn't be deductible.


I'm trying to figure out why the typical neocon doesn't like Obama. You should love him. He's toppling regimes at a rate Bush and Cheney never dreamed of, and I know how important dropping bombs on brown people in the desert is to you guys.

Ever poke away at a hornet's nest with a stick? In the ME, nobody can be sure what will replace the toppled regime.........maybe Iran, Hezbollah, or worse?

As for Perry's plan, I don't care for continuing any deductions; not home mortgages, dependents, or any other. A flat tax should be just a fixed percentage against a gross wage income with a floor at which taxes begin.

It could be implemented simply by replacing the current personal/sub-S tax tables, and dismissing most of the IRS personnel and consolidating some IRS offices. No constitutional amendment required. No national sales tax layered upon existing state and local sales taxes.

Arroyo_Doble
10-26-2011, 09:13 AM
Dividends have already been taxed once. Capital gains are the result of risk investment. The gains shouldn't be taxed, and the losses shouldn't be deductible.

I disagree. I see no reason why those whose income is made through risk should be exempt from taxes while those who make their money from labor carry the load.

fettpett
10-26-2011, 09:14 AM
it's a political ploy by Perry, he's doing shitty in the polls and in debates and needs something to boost his numbers

fettpett
10-26-2011, 09:15 AM
I disagree. I see no reason why those whose income is made through risk should be exempt from taxes while those who make their money from labor carry the load.

because it keeps people from investing. Income taxes should be done away with period. NONE, NO MORE. Repeal the 16th!

Arroyo_Doble
10-26-2011, 09:22 AM
because it keeps people from investing.

If taxing risk keeps people from investing, will taxing labor keep people from working?


Income taxes should be done away with period. NONE, NO MORE. Repeal the 16th!

There seems to be a list of amendments people want repealed; a list usually in the hands of those who claim they love the document more than most.

Bailey
10-26-2011, 09:24 AM
You Ronulans say this every election cycle...yet he never finishes beyond 1% of the vote when it really matters.

Thank God this is his last failed attempt to convert the masses. Hopefully we won't have to hear from you cultists four years downt he road.

Hopefully old age will stop him from making another run in 2016.

txradioguy
10-26-2011, 09:27 AM
Yes, clearly anyone who isn't for open borders, more wars, bloated government, and a worthless dollar must be a part of some cult.

I'm trying to figure out why the typical neocon doesn't like Obama. You should love him. He's toppling regimes at a rate Bush and Cheney never dreamed of


http://img373.imageshack.us/img373/1995/jeeznotthisshitagainii4.jpg




and I know how important dropping bombs on brown people in the desert is to you guys.

Wow...here we have it folks...Exhibit A of why I say that at the end of the day there is no difference between DUmmies/Libtards and the Ronulans/100%'ers.

Both have no problem using the Conservatives = Racists meme anytime...anywhere...no matter if it's true or not.

Tecate...you can kiss my Conservative ass you extremeist clown. The only predjuice I harbor in my body is against wild-eyed spittle flinging isolationist cartoons like you.

I know your overinflated opinion of yourself and your disdain for the rest of us won't let you see it...but you're pathetic...you're attempt to paint Conservatives as warmongering racists is lame and your 19th Century John Birch Society wet dream you harbor for this country to return to what you percieve as "the good old days" isn't going to happen.

Get over it and get over yourself. You aren't the arbiter of who is and isn't Conservative. Your ilk thinks Reagan was a Lib. You sit around in your three man circle jerks and boast "well if I was running this country".

Ronulans are the political equivalent of a circular firing squad...but just too stupid to realize it.

Rockntractor
10-26-2011, 09:28 AM
If taxing risk keeps people from investing, will taxing labor keep people from working?



There seems to be a list of amendments people want repealed; a list usually in the hands of those who claim they love the document more than most.

Apparently you were against the repeal of the 18th amendment also repealing amendments bad!:rolleyes:

txradioguy
10-26-2011, 09:30 AM
because it keeps people from investing. Income taxes should be done away with period. NONE, NO MORE. Repeal the 16th!

Bok is posting straight from his Book of Marx again I see.

txradioguy
10-26-2011, 09:32 AM
If taxing risk keeps people from investing, will taxing labor keep people from working?

You aren't really that obtuse are you?




There seems to be a list of amendments people want repealed; a list usually in the hands of those who claim they love the document more than most.

And? Because there are certain amendments that people want repealed that somehow in your thinking makes them NOT love the Constitution?

Interesting.

fettpett
10-26-2011, 09:34 AM
If taxing risk keeps people from investing, will taxing labor keep people from working?



There seems to be a list of amendments people want repealed; a list usually in the hands of those who claim they love the document more than most.

All the Income tax has done is flame the fires of the "hate the rich" bullshit that has been going on and allowing the Government to constantly be spending more than they have. The ONLY solution, which has been proven in multiple studies, is the Fair Tax.

You realize that the people hurt the most by Capital Gains taxes are not those that make huge investments but those that put their money into 401K's, Mutual Funds, IRA's and the like for retirement purposes, mostly Middle Class or anyone that has some money to invest. It doesn't hurt the rich, it hurts working man.

txradioguy
10-26-2011, 09:41 AM
I disagree. I see no reason why those whose income is made through risk should be exempt from taxes while those who make their money from labor carry the load.

This isn't about the Wall Street fat cats who you seem to think anyone who uses the term "investment" is.

Small business owners...employees looking to help add more to their retirement fund...normal everyday middle class people that you Libs claim to champion get hit by this double taxiation too. Military members who invest part of their pay in the TSP are those greedy investors you seem to hold in disdain as well.

Taxiation on investments hurts the people the left claims to want to help...who in truth they don't want to help at all...which is the middle class.

Just be truthful...you see nothing wrong with taxing a dollar eared or invested as many times as can be gotten away with.

Double and triple dipping by the IRS is perfectly fine with you. And you think it's perfectly fine for the Feds to do this.

Be honest in what you think and quit being so coy.

You...like the rest of your Liberal brethren see no limit to how many times a dollar can and should be taxed.

Arroyo_Doble
10-26-2011, 09:43 AM
All the Income tax has done is flame the fires of the "hate the rich" bullshit that has been going on and allowing the Government to constantly be spending more than they have. The ONLY solution, which has been proven in multiple studies, is the Fair Tax.


The Fair Tax pushes the burden of a functioning government down the ecomonic ladder by demanding a greater percentage of income from the less affluent to support the State. It also encourages an underground, and criminal, economy.


You realize that the people hurt the most by Capital Gains taxes are not those that make huge investments but those that put their money into 401K's, Mutual Funds, IRA's and the like for retirement purposes, mostly Middle Class or anyone that has some money to invest. It doesn't hurt the rich, it hurts working man.

The rich don't have money to invest?

txradioguy
10-26-2011, 09:52 AM
The Fair Tax pushes the burden of a functioning government down the ecomonic ladder by demanding a greater percentage of income from the less affluent to support the State.

47% of the population pays no taxes at all. Your fellow Dems consider "rich" to be someone making
250K a year.

What is so fair about a system that forces a small percentage to fund the majority?

That kind of argument sounds like the same drivel being spewed by the OWS sleazeballs.



It also encourages an underground, and criminal, economy.

And so does high taxiation rates on the "wealthy". More so than even your theoretical "underground" economy bullshit.




The rich don't have money to invest?

No one every said they didn't. But they invest that money in their business in the form of infrastructure investments purchases of equipment and the like.

Things they can't do when their liquidity shrinks due to an overburdensome tax policy set forth by the Federal Government.

Tecate
10-26-2011, 10:41 AM
http://img373.imageshack.us/img373/1995/jeeznotthisshitagainii4.jpg





Wow...here we have it folks...Exhibit A of why I say that at the end of the day there is no difference between DUmmies/Libtards and the Ronulans/100%'ers.

Both have no problem using the Conservatives = Racists meme anytime...anywhere...no matter if it's true or not.

Tecate...you can kiss my Conservative ass you extremeist clown. The only predjuice I harbor in my body is against wild-eyed spittle flinging isolationist cartoons like you.

I know your overinflated opinion of yourself and your disdain for the rest of us won't let you see it...but you're pathetic...you're attempt to paint Conservatives as warmongering racists is lame and your 19th Century John Birch Society wet dream you harbor for this country to return to what you percieve as "the good old days" isn't going to happen.

Get over it and get over yourself. You aren't the arbiter of who is and isn't Conservative. Your ilk thinks Reagan was a Lib. You sit around in your three man circle jerks and boast "well if I was running this country".

Ronulans are the political equivalent of a circular firing squad...but just too stupid to realize it.
You just told me everything I needed to know... Well, I already knew it.

Isolationist = anyone who doesn't want to start half a dozen more wars halfway around the world while our borders stay wide open. Again, you should absolutely LOVE Obama! You danced around that and didn't address it, because you know it's true. LOL!

Arroyo_Doble
10-26-2011, 10:43 AM
Why does Ron Paul make so many Republicans uncomfortable?

Tecate
10-26-2011, 10:51 AM
Why does Ron Paul make so many Republicans uncomfortable?
The "isolationist" label which is basically a talking point and an outright lie seems like bamboo under the fingernails for many. I can't figure it out really. Ron Paul would defend the country if we were attacked, but he isn't for stirring up new shit halfway around the world in places that are no threat to us. For some reason that pushes peoples' buttons big time.

Seems to be the same crowd that will never admit to themselves that they were completely conned into the Iraq war based on deliberate and calculated lies.

Arroyo_Doble
10-26-2011, 10:55 AM
The "isolationist" label which is basically a talking point and an outright lie seems like bamboo under the fingernails for many. I can't figure it out really. Ron Paul would defend the country if we were attacked, but he isn't for stirring up new shit halfway around the world in places that are no threat to us. For some reason that pushes peoples' buttons big time.

Seems to be the same crowd that will never admit to themselves that they were completely conned into the Iraq war based on deliberate and calculated lies.

It is odd. I have listened to am radio guys like Mark Levin denigrate Ron Paul and in the next few minutes talk about how we need to return to our 18th Century values as exhibited in the Constitution. Of all the candidates out there (with a wide audience), Ron Paul is the closest to that in his rhetoric and principles.

txradioguy
10-26-2011, 11:05 AM
Why does Ron Paul make so many Republicans uncomfortable?

The long list of reasons why he wouldn't be suitible for President are long and well doccumented.

Starting with the fact he's not a Republican.

Molon Labe
10-26-2011, 12:05 PM
Your ilk thinks Reagan was a Lib. You sit around in your three man circle jerks and boast "well if I was running this country".

Funny how when one of the founders of modern day conservatism Barry Goldwater was in his later years, he started to criticize the Republican party for going astray and becoming even too "liberal" for his liking.

He was damn right.

What people are finding conservative today doesn't mean that being a purist is the "be all end all" of conservatism...but it does mean I recognize how far off course it is today.

When your trying to pass new tax laws, that's a long ways away from when Barry said "I did not go to Washington to pass laws but to repeal them".

I've been in the Republican party for 20 some years....it has gone way off course. I voted for Bush twice. The fact that the 2 clowns leading this debate are guys like Perry and Romney is full display that the GOP still doesn't get it or even try to hide that it doesn't give a crap about its own platform.

You are as Paul obsessed as you say "Ronulans" are....

There's no perfect candidate, but there are those few who get the mess were in. Paul is one. Of course there are still questions I have about his foreign policy, but he understands the problems better than anyone else.

Funny how that is that Paul was the only congressman in the 70's to actively support Reagan's campaign when everyone else would not. And funny how that is that if we take the one instance of FP Reagan had to deal with that the similarities are much closer to Reagan's views on the middle east and how we should deal with foreign policy than anyone else.

Remember those bastards killed 253 of our brothers in arms...the Marines in 1983 barracks, and we didn't invade anyone to solve that issue. Matter of fact, Reagan pulled us out of those engagements because he said that it was fuitile to play politics with Arabs. Was he an appeaser to terrorists? No. He was prudent.....but most people would call that "cut and run" if it wasn't Reagan.

I know people may not like to accept this, but that makes him closer to Reagan's view than people may be comfortable with.

Molon Labe
10-26-2011, 12:30 PM
Why does Ron Paul make so many Republicans uncomfortable?

Mostly because of people like this who gained influence in the GOP

http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=6072

CATO recognized it a long time ago....Most modern GOP diehards can't see it anymore.

We like to talk about small government...but don't really like to put it into much action if it goes against something we want the Government to do....like rebuild Iraq or sell weapons to Egypt and Saudi Arabia.

Statism set in to the core party beliefs and then someone thought it would be hunky dory to spread Democracy to moderate the Middle East. And then we sell that as National defense.

They forget what Reagan said....that "Libertarianism is the heart and sould of conservatism". Most Republican's like to skip that inconvenience.

fettpett
10-26-2011, 12:45 PM
The Fair Tax pushes the burden of a functioning government down the ecomonic ladder by demanding a greater percentage of income from the less affluent to support the State. It also encourages an underground, and criminal, economy.



The rich don't have money to invest?

:rolleyes::rolleyes: and yet it's been proven time an again that it wont and it's the only one that works. go read the book instead of spouting crap from leftist talking heads.

and yes the rich invest, but the vast majority of money doesn't come directly from them, but comes from individuals that are investing their money for retirement

marv
10-26-2011, 01:22 PM
Ron Paul is (R-TX) because that party registration is the only way he could get elected and re-elected. He's as batty on the right as the DUmmies are on the left.

For example:

He thinks the Federal Reserve prints paper currency. It's the Bureau of Engraving and Printing, a part of the Dept.of the Treasury. The FED analysizes the economy and requests the Congress to authorize a sufficient supply of currency to satisfy needs which in turn are passed on to Treasury in the form of funding authority.
http://www.bep.treas.gov/faqlibrary.html
(snip)

The mission of the Bureau of Engraving and Printing is to serve as the Federal Government's most secure and efficient source of vital Government securities. The BEP manufactures the financial and other securities of the United States. Accordingly, the BEP designs, prints, and furnishes a large variety of security products, including Federal Reserve Notes, Treasury securities, identification cards, naturalization certificates, and other special security documents.

(snip)

Molon Labe
10-26-2011, 02:19 PM
Ron Paul is (R-TX) because that party registration is the only way he could get elected and re-elected. He's as batty on the right as the DUmmies are on the left.

For example:

He thinks the Federal Reserve prints paper currency. It's the Bureau of Engraving and Printing, a part of the Dept.of the Treasury. The FED analysizes the economy and requests the Congress to authorize a sufficient supply of currency to satisfy needs which in turn are passed on to Treasury in the form of funding authority.
http://www.bep.treas.gov/faqlibrary.html


That's a faulty generalization. Congress ALWAYS listens to the Fed...and Bush bypassed Congress when he signed by executive order the Bailout of the Auto industry. And guess what..... Obama would have done it too had congress failed to pass his stimulus plan.

There are alot of conservatives against the Federal reserve. And since when did being against one of the tenets of Marxism become batty?


5. Centralization of credit in the hands of the state, by means of a national bank with state capital and an exclusive monopoly. - Marx Tenet 5

The Federal Reserve System,is a "national bank" . It manipulates interest rates and holds a monopoly on legal counterfeiting in the United States.

Like I said earlier...Many conservatives don't realize what they are supporting.

Tecate
10-26-2011, 04:16 PM
Ron Paul is (R-TX) because that party registration is the only way he could get elected and re-elected. He's as batty on the right as the DUmmies are on the left.

For example:

He thinks the Federal Reserve prints paper currency. It's the Bureau of Engraving and Printing, a part of the Dept.of the Treasury. The FED analysizes the economy and requests the Congress to authorize a sufficient supply of currency to satisfy needs which in turn are passed on to Treasury in the form of funding authority.
http://www.bep.treas.gov/faqlibrary.html
The federal reserve is a private banking cartel that masquerades as a government agency, when in reality, they are no more federal than Federal Express. Didn't you hear Newt Gingrich, Rick Perry and others calling for an independent audit (openly stealing Ron Paul's material of course - because he's such a kook :rolleyes:) of the fed in the debates?

I thought we were way past this by now... The federal reserve is private and not part of the government.

marv
10-26-2011, 05:23 PM
The federal reserve is a private banking cartel that masquerades as a government agency, when in reality, they are no more federal than Federal Express....

I thought we were way past this by now... The federal reserve is private and not part of the government.
Uhhh, from '70 to '77, I worked at the Kansas City Federal Reserve "J" branch. I'm quite familiar with the duties and responsibilities of the Federal Reserve. I know who signed my check.

The real problem is, as Molon Labe suggested in his previous post, that the Federal Reserve has become as politically corrupted as Congress itself. The Federal Reserve is a Federally chartered corporation, and subject to Congressional oversight - like the Post Office, and I might add, Fannie and Freddie. Lesson: a corrupt Congress will corrupt anything it gets its hands on, and politics being the dirty game it is, it won't be corrected in our lifetime.

Remember that it's Congress, both House and Senate, that represent We the People. We put them there, and when it's broken, it's our fault. Failing to gain the Senate in 2010 put the nation at peril and in the hands of a rat backed into a corner. A fault-finding, finger-pointing, corrupt President from a corrupt political system in Chicago who is becoming America's first dictator by executive order.

Tecate
10-26-2011, 06:22 PM
Uhhh, from '70 to '77, I worked at the Kansas City Federal Reserve "J" branch. I'm quite familiar with the duties and responsibilities of the Federal Reserve. I know who signed my check.

The real problem is, as Molon Labe suggested in his previous post, that the Federal Reserve has become as politically corrupted as Congress itself. The Federal Reserve is a Federally chartered corporation, and subject to Congressional oversight - like the Post Office, and I might add, Fannie and Freddie. Lesson: a corrupt Congress will corrupt anything it gets its hands on, and politics being the dirty game it is, it won't be corrected in our lifetime.

Remember that it's Congress, both House and Senate, that represent We the People. We put them there, and when it's broken, it's our fault. Failing to gain the Senate in 2010 put the nation at peril and in the hands of a rat backed into a corner. A fault-finding, finger-pointing, corrupt President from a corrupt political system in Chicago who is becoming America's first dictator by executive order.
You're preaching to the choir by telling be that the system is corrupt to the core and essentially run by a pack of criminals, although I don't necessarily agree with your proposed solutions. IIRC, the SHTF before Obama was even elected, but that's a whole other thread.

The "congressional oversight" of the federal reserve is ceremonial at best when I saw Bernanke tell members of congress that it's none of their business who he gave over $2 trillion to in secret, or which foreign banks were given over $500 billion. So-called "conspiracy theorists" got it wrong because things were actually worse than they claimed.

I believe we are being scammed by a bunch of smoke and mirrors, and shell game parlour tricks which is why I'm almost completely out of the US dollar and all in on precious metals. As long as I am gainfully employed and debt-free, I will continue to accumulate more on the dips.

Rockntractor
10-26-2011, 08:54 PM
He's toppling regimes at a rate Bush and Cheney never dreamed of, and I know how important dropping bombs on brown people in the desert is to you guys.

What the fuck is the matter with you. The race shit pisses me off to no end!
Take a vacation asswipe.

Molon Labe
10-26-2011, 08:58 PM
Uhhh, from '70 to '77, I worked at the Kansas City Federal Reserve "J" branch. I'm quite familiar with the duties and responsibilities of the Federal Reserve. I know who signed my check.

The real problem is, as Molon Labe suggested in his previous post, that the Federal Reserve has become as politically corrupted as Congress itself. The Federal Reserve is a Federally chartered corporation, and subject to Congressional oversight - like the Post Office, and I might add, Fannie and Freddie. Lesson: a corrupt Congress will corrupt anything it gets its hands on, and politics being the dirty game it is, it won't be corrected in our lifetime.

I agree Marv. I guess were closer on this than I had thought..Thanks.

...and the problem is that no one is willing to have oversight on them. Like this today about the NY Fed giving billions away overseas.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/45031100/


By one account, the New York Fed shipped about $40 billion in cash between 2003 and 2008. In just the first two years, the shipments included more than 281 million individual bills weighing a total of 363 tons. But soon after the money arrived in the chaos of war-torn Baghdad, the paper trail documenting who controlled it all began to go cold

http://www.cnbc.com/id/43487056/?NY_Fed_Won_t_Say_How_Much_Money_Went_to_Iraq


The Fed's lack of disclosure is making it difficult for the inspector general to follow the paper trail of billions of dollars that went missing in the chaotic rush to finance the Iraq occupation, and to determine how much of that money was stolen.

fettpett
10-26-2011, 11:00 PM
The federal reserve is a private banking cartel that masquerades as a government agency, when in reality, they are no more federal than Federal Express. Didn't you hear Newt Gingrich, Rick Perry and others calling for an independent audit (openly stealing Ron Paul's material of course - because he's such a kook :rolleyes:) of the fed in the debates?


No one said Paul doesn't have good ideas and that we couldn't support them, just not a fan of his.




The "congressional oversight" of the federal reserve is ceremonial at best when I saw Bernanke tell members of congress that it's none of their business who he gave over $2 trillion to in secret, or which foreign banks were given over $500 billion. So-called "conspiracy theorists" got it wrong because things were actually worse than they claimed.

I believe we are being scammed by a bunch of smoke and mirrors, and shell game parlour tricks which is why I'm almost completely out of the US dollar and all in on precious metals. As long as I am gainfully employed and debt-free, I will continue to accumulate more on the dips.

Federal Reserve needs to be reigned in. Bernanke should 1) never have become fed chair to begin with and 2) As soon as he made those remarks the Senate should have told him to get them the info or face perjury charges and prison time at Ft Levenworth. But this Senate is too damn chicken-shit to do so.

RobJohnson
10-27-2011, 06:43 AM
If taxing risk keeps people from investing, will taxing labor keep people from working?





It just creates an unfair playing field. The small business owner has to take cash jobs, etc, just to keep his head above water. There would be more incentive not to work, then to work, in some situations...I agree...

In NV the regulations on business is unreal....a mom and pop operation would have to spend their first year's gross earnings just paying a CPA and lawyer....all assets are taxed by the county as "business property tax" and just to get a business licenese you have to fill out three inches of paperwork, appear before the town board (we are unincorporated as a town) then the county board...so they can find what hoops they missed for you to jump thourgh the first time. Several large companies tried to locate here and were run off.....one was a really cool indoor green house. We would have fresh locally grown produce for our stores with less transportation costs...it was a "done deal" until we elected a new town board and county DA.....

They finally gave up and another town is going to get the deal....and the 150 jobs....the lowest paying was $35,000 with benefits...that souhttp://www.growponicsamericas.com/nds pretty good in a town with 19% unemployment!

http://www.growponicsamericas.com/

I guess the squatters in the forecolosed homes complained the lights might be too bright....:D

The town board member that claims to be libertarian and says it's the govt's job to stand back and get out of the way when new jobs want to come to town....was one of the guys that voted it down.....:mad::D He must not of been getting enough kick backs....lol

http://www.growponicsamericas.com/news/town-negotiates-for-90m-project-growponics-nevada-llc

RobJohnson
10-27-2011, 06:48 AM
The Fair Tax pushes the burden of a functioning government down the ecomonic ladder by demanding a greater percentage of income from the less affluent to support the State. It also encourages an underground, and criminal, economy.



The rich don't have money to invest?

The flat tax plans I have seen always exempt the "wholesalers" and "raw producers" while the end consumer picks up the tax tab....not much different then now....

I have little faith that much will change.

I pay into FICA and Medicare every week, my company matches it...I have no dependents and as young as I am...I will have to live to 70 (or longer to collect) I would rather have control of that money to invest and enjoy as I see fit....

I have no dependents....so every dime I paid in, the feds get to keep when I die....nice!

RobJohnson
10-27-2011, 06:49 AM
Why does Ron Paul make so many Republicans uncomfortable?

Because he is crazy?

marv
10-27-2011, 07:04 AM
Why does Ron Paul make so many Republicans uncomfortable?

Because he is crazy?

Yup!

RobJohnson
10-27-2011, 07:12 AM
47% of the population pays no taxes at all. Your fellow Dems consider "rich" to be someone making
250K a year.

What is so fair about a system that forces a small percentage to fund the majority?

That kind of argument sounds like the same drivel being spewed by the OWS sleazeballs.




And so does high taxiation rates on the "wealthy". More so than even your theoretical "underground" economy bullshit.





No one every said they didn't. But they invest that money in their business in the form of infrastructure investments purchases of equipment and the like.

Things they can't do when their liquidity shrinks due to an overburdensome tax policy set forth by the Federal Government.

Don't forget the EIC, where a single person with a couple kids can work part time for a few months, get every penny back they have paid into the IRS, plus a bonus for working.....It pisses me off when I see lazy people with no goals, brag about $5,000 IRS refunds and they worked about 180 days out of the year....it's not a REFUND...it's a darn gift from the gov't.....why can't those of us that work get such rewards....? On top of the EIC credits, they also have kids on tax free SSI, healthcare with no co-pays from Medicaid, etc...and let's not forget the $1000 plus of medication that Medicaid pays for to justify the child's "disability"....medication to keep them awake, and medication so they can sleep...."babysitter in a bottle"....the kids are coached and allowed to act up in school by the parents and the ADHA diagnosis allows the monthly checks to roll in...of course, there is a limit of about $50.000 tax free per family for SSI benefits....

I see families of five that have to see a doctor every 14 days....the state pays the doctor $200 to see each one of them...he sees them all at once...that's $1000 so he can write them $5000 in Rx drugs....they are in and out of the office in about five minutes....These are the same lazy fuckers complaining about rich people...as they have an iPhone to their ear with unlimited data packages...and enough extra pills to sell to the babysitter next door... Medicaid and Disability is starting to become the new "American Dream" for way too many...

Let's not forget about the free rent, and food.....

If you add up all the gov't handouts these families get, that pay NO INCOME TAX, it might just equal six figures....if the family is large enough, it could easily end up being 250,000..... I know for a fact there are people that get over $100,000 a year in healthcare from Medicaid....and they DONT WORK......or even try to find a job.....and of course, they don't pay a penny for health insurance either.... One lady had the balls to tell me that she was afraid if she had a part time job, they would lose too many benefits for her husband that is disabled..they get free electricity grants, free co-pay coverage, etc.....they bought a house (foreclosure) with a credit card cash advance and then filed bankruptcy a year later...how nice! But some how it's the bank's fault!!!!!!! LOL

I listen to union cry babies that won't take heavy equipment jobs (construction is way down) for less then $40 an hour (plus the employer pays in $12 an hour for benefits to the trust fund) because they would rather work for 12 weeks, get laid off, and qualify for up to 99 weeks of unemployment....and most of these guys work for cash while they are off work, for $10 an hour....so $10 is ok.....but taking a real legit job for $20 an hour is "unfair?"