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Nubs
11-11-2011, 03:01 PM
Thought this may be better placed here.

Why do we need to co-opt Armistice Day and proclaim it as Veterans Day?

Remembrance of 11/11 came about because of WWI, not WWII, Korea, Vietnam, Gulf 1 or 2.


Why do we not treat the day with reverence for those that were lost in that war?

NJCardFan
11-11-2011, 03:56 PM
Probably the same reason why we lump all presidents into on holiday(why this is so is a mystery to me) instead of the old way where Lincoln and Washington's birthdays used to be celebrated as separate holidays. Also, because 11/11 is also the anniversary of the founding of the Marine Corps so it makes sense in combining the celebration of the service to our country. Also, we've been involved in many wars so remembering only 1 doesn't make sense. Just my 2 cents.

Arroyo_Doble
11-11-2011, 04:00 PM
Probably the same reason why we lump all presidents into on holiday(why this is so is a mystery to me) instead of the old way where Lincoln and Washington's birthdays used to be celebrated as separate holidays. Also, because 11/11 is also the anniversary of the founding of the Marine Corps so it makes sense in combining the celebration of the service to our country. Also, we've been involved in many wars so remembering only 1 doesn't make sense. Just my 2 cents.

It is sort of like Memorial Day. It started out as being centered on those who died in the American Civil War (Decoration Day) but got extended to include those killed in all wars.

Nubs
11-11-2011, 05:29 PM
To me it the commemoration of the end of an event that consumed lives at a rate of between 400,000-500,000 persons per month for a period of 4 years. I do not think it is proper to use this day to honor persons for current participation in an institution. Today is about remembering an event and those involved in it.

I see the lumping in of all those not associated in this event as the logical equivalent of honoring my 30 year old Jewish neighbor on Holocaust Remembrance Day for being Jewish.

Apache
11-11-2011, 08:39 PM
To me it the commemoration of the end of an event that consumed lives at a rate of between 400,000-500,000 persons per month for a period of 4 years. I do not think it is proper to use this day to honor persons for current participation in an institution. Today is about remembering an event and those involved in it.

I see the lumping in of all those not associated in this event as the logical equivalent of honoring my 30 year old Jewish neighbor on Holocaust Remembrance Day for being Jewish.

I can see what you're getting at. However do ALL Jews share in the sacrifice of the Holoaust? All vets do. All vets have sacrificed in the name of this country. They, I think, deserve a day to be reflected upon...



2 cents, that's all :Taps4:

Odysseus
11-11-2011, 08:54 PM
Thought this may be better placed here.

Why do we need to co-opt Armistice Day and proclaim it as Veterans Day?

Remembrance of 11/11 came about because of WWI, not WWII, Korea, Vietnam, Gulf 1 or 2.

Why do we not treat the day with reverence for those that were lost in that war?
Well, for one thing, the last living American WWI vet died last year. I'm not saying that we shouldn't commemorate WWI, but it's one of many wars that we have fought, and we've lost far more in other conflicts.

To me it the commemoration of the end of an event that consumed lives at a rate of between 400,000-500,000 persons per month for a period of 4 years. I do not think it is proper to use this day to honor persons for current participation in an institution. Today is about remembering an event and those involved in it.

I see the lumping in of all those not associated in this event as the logical equivalent of honoring my 30 year old Jewish neighbor on Holocaust Remembrance Day for being Jewish.

There have been many wars in which Americans have fought and died. Memorial Day started out as a day to decorate the graves of Civil War dead, and morphed into a day for commemorating all American war dead. Armistice Day started out as a remembrance of WWI veterans. As there are none left, we will either gradually forget the day, or expand it to encompass additional veterans.

Holocaust Remembrance Day isn't meant to honor the survivors and descendants of survivors of the Holocaust, but to remember it so that it doesn't happen again.

I can see what you're getting at. However do ALL Jews share in the sacrifice of the Holoaust? All vets do. All vets have sacrificed in the name of this country. They, I think, deserve a day to be reflected upon...

2 cents, that's all :Taps4:

We're certainly tied to the Holocaust, but that isn't the point of remembering it. Veterans' Day honors vets. Holocaust Remembrance Day reminds us why we needed to be veterans in the first place.

Kay
11-11-2011, 11:12 PM
Also, because 11/11 is also the anniversary of the founding of the Marine Corps

No the USMC birthday is November 10.

Nubs
11-11-2011, 11:46 PM
Well, for one thing, the last living American WWI vet died last year. I'm not saying that we shouldn't commemorate WWI, but it's one of many wars that we have fought, and we've lost far more in other conflicts.


There have been many wars in which Americans have fought and died. Memorial Day started out as a day to decorate the graves of Civil War dead, and morphed into a day for commemorating all American war dead. Armistice Day started out as a remembrance of WWI veterans. As there are none left, we will either gradually forget the day, or expand it to encompass additional veterans.

Holocaust Remembrance Day isn't meant to honor the survivors and descendants of survivors of the Holocaust, but to remember it so that it doesn't happen again.


We're certainly tied to the Holocaust, but that isn't the point of remembering it. Veterans' Day honors vets. Holocaust Remembrance Day reminds us why we needed to be veterans in the first place.

Thanks for your thoughts. The forget part is what I'm afraid of. The Holocaust reference might have not been the best analogy. I do apologize if it was off base.

I recently spent time studying in Germany alongside many fellow Americans half my age. I found myself getting angry for they had absolutely zero appreciation of knowledge of historical events that shaped their lives. As we were riding the S-Bahn to Alexanderplatz, on student remarked on how the museum facades were in disrepair. I was in absolute disbelief at the historical ignorance.

I just hate that the MSM was waiting breathlessly for the 1,000th KIA in Iraq; when in WWI they would not have to wait 2.5 years but only 20 minutes. Around 25,000 British died in a single day during the Battle of Ypres. I guess I wish WWI would be covered so that more people would not be so historically ignorant.

marv
11-12-2011, 11:18 AM
I recently spent time studying in Germany alongside many fellow Americans half my age. I found myself getting angry for they had absolutely zero appreciation of knowledge of historical events that shaped their lives. As we were riding the S-Bahn to Alexanderplatz, one student remarked on how the museum facades were in disrepair. I was in absolute disbelief at the historical ignorance.We hosted an exchange student from Cologne in 1999. She didn't know who Otto Von Bismarck was, and thought there was no Germany before "unification".


I guess I wish WWI would be covered so that more people would not be so historically ignorant.That's the motivation for why I put my Dad's WW1 diary (http://www.kancoll.org/articles/cruzan/c_credits.htm) on line at Kansas University.

Odysseus
11-12-2011, 06:49 PM
Thanks for your thoughts. The forget part is what I'm afraid of. The Holocaust reference might have not been the best analogy. I do apologize if it was off base.

I recently spent time studying in Germany alongside many fellow Americans half my age. I found myself getting angry for they had absolutely zero appreciation of knowledge of historical events that shaped their lives. As we were riding the S-Bahn to Alexanderplatz, on student remarked on how the museum facades were in disrepair. I was in absolute disbelief at the historical ignorance.

I just hate that the MSM was waiting breathlessly for the 1,000th KIA in Iraq; when in WWI they would not have to wait 2.5 years but only 20 minutes. Around 25,000 British died in a single day during the Battle of Ypres. I guess I wish WWI would be covered so that more people would not be so historically ignorant.

Blame the schools. I had a conversation with a waitress who had graduated from high school a year before, who thought that the Pilgrims had come from Spain. She'd never heard of Robert E. Lee or Jefferson Davis, but correctly identified Harriet Tubman. She didn't know who Winston Churchill was, and the extent of her understanding of WWII was the Holocaust, which means that she knew, vaguely, who the Nazis were, but not how they were defeated. The kids don't know history because the schools don't teach it. Adding a holiday is just a band aid on the cancer of ignorance that our educational systems perpetuate.

Rockntractor
11-12-2011, 06:57 PM
Blame the schools. I had a conversation with a waitress who had graduated from high school a year before, who thought that the Pilgrims had come from Spain. She'd never heard of Robert E. Lee or Jefferson Davis, but correctly identified Harriet Tubman. She didn't know who Winston Churchill was, and the extent of her understanding of WWII was the Holocaust, which means that she knew, vaguely, who the Nazis were, but not how they were defeated. The kids don't know history because the schools don't teach it. Adding a holiday is just a band aid on the cancer of ignorance that our educational systems perpetuate.

Wei Wei teaches.

Odysseus
11-13-2011, 12:59 AM
Wei Wei teaches.

So he claims. He more likely occupies a position in which he spends time in a classroom, where he perpetuates ignorance.

Rockntractor
11-13-2011, 01:15 AM
So he claims. He more likely occupies a position in which he spends time in a classroom, where he perpetuates ignorance.

Their are thousands like him!:eek:

Odysseus
11-13-2011, 02:19 AM
Their are thousands like him!:eek:

And every one of them is a danger to himself and others.

AmPat
11-13-2011, 11:55 AM
And every one of them is a danger to himself and others.

Without Harriet Tubman, ML K, Benjamin Banneker, etc, there would be no life on earth, no USA, no freedom to hate and rebel against. You guys know this stuff, it is our duty to change history so that we can enjoy Hope and Change, abolish currency and debt, and all live in marriage less households full of peace loving offspring that have no worries or cares.:rolleyes:

Odysseus
11-13-2011, 12:11 PM
Without Harriet Tubman, ML K, Benjamin Banneker, etc, there would be no life on earth, no USA, no freedom to hate and rebel against. You guys know this stuff, it is our duty to change history so that we can enjoy Hope and Change, abolish currency and debt, and all live in marriage less households full of peace loving offspring that have no worries or cares.:rolleyes:

Yep. They want two groups in America, the Eloi and the Morlocks. The Eloi get to live in the sun, enjoy cradle to grave benefits (actually, just cradle, since they are kept in perpetual infancy) and lord it over the rest of us. The Morlocks build and maintain everything, wait on the Eloi and know our place. Until it's dinner time.

noonwitch
11-14-2011, 03:59 PM
We hosted an exchange student from Cologne in 1999. She didn't know who Otto Von Bismarck was, and thought there was no Germany before "unification".

That's the motivation for why I put my Dad's WW1 diary (http://www.kancoll.org/articles/cruzan/c_credits.htm) on line at Kansas University.



That's just plain scary. When I was in high school, there were still two Germanies-the Bundesrepublic and the Deutsche Democratic Republic. Our german exchange student thought we were all stupid because we only spoke one language-I'll give her this, her English was much better than my Deutsche.

I wonder if your student was from the former DDR? It would explain why she knew so little about her nation's history. She would have been a kid when the reunification occurred, and it took a long time for the former DDR to catch up with the economy and educational system of the BDR.

NJCardFan
11-15-2011, 01:16 AM
No the USMC birthday is November 10.

Sorry, 1 day off.

fettpett
11-15-2011, 11:20 AM
Yep. They want two groups in America, the Eloi and the Morlocks. The Eloi get to live in the sun, enjoy cradle to grave benefits (actually, just cradle, since they are kept in perpetual infancy) and lord it over the rest of us. The Morlocks build and maintain everything, wait on the Eloi and know our place. Until it's dinner time.

Is it waiting on them if they are being treated and used like cattle? :eek::D

Arroyo_Doble
11-15-2011, 11:24 AM
Is it waiting on them if they are being treated and used like cattle? :eek::D

Grass fed, well cared for beef is the best!

fettpett
11-15-2011, 11:29 AM
Grass fed, well cared for beef is the best!

of course, the Morlocks weren't stupid, they knew they had Kobi Beef, they weren't settling for ground chuck you know:D:D

Odysseus
11-15-2011, 05:42 PM
Is it waiting on them if they are being treated and used like cattle? :eek::D

Sure. The vast majority of Eloi didn't get eaten. One would be sacrificed periodically, but the majority kept out of the pens. It's like culling congress every two years. A few are tossed, but the vast majority will continue until they are pried away from their desks after rigor mortis has set in.