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LogansPapa
09-12-2008, 01:41 PM
Leah Moreland, the woman who said she grew up sheltered from prejudice, plans to vote for McCain. Party loyalty is also part of her decision. But her cultural compass also comes into play. She says her gut tells her not to trust Obama.

"I look at Obama, and I have a question in my mind," she says. "Years ago, was he taken into the Muslim faith? And my concern is the only way you are no longer a Muslim is if you are dead, killed. So in my mind, he's still alive."

Although Barack Obama has said repeatedly he is not a Muslim and has never been a Muslim, Moreland is still unconvinced.

"There is something about him I don't trust," she says. "I don't care how good a speaker he is, I just can't trust him."

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=94523754

GrumpyOldLady
09-12-2008, 01:44 PM
YES - to BLACK people race matters in 2008.

And - YES - I also think Obama is a closet muslim.

LogansPapa
09-12-2008, 01:52 PM
And - YES - I also think Obama is a closet muslim.

So you're the lady they interiviewed? :confused: ;)

cat714
09-12-2008, 01:56 PM
Unfortunately, there are many people on BOTH SIDES who will cast their vote simply because of race. If I am not mistaken, it was Obie who started to play the race card, so IMO, he opened that can of worms first. It was bound to happen. If he didn't do it, some idiot like Jessie would have done it.

Elspeth
09-12-2008, 02:55 PM
YES - to BLACK people race matters in 2008.

And - YES - I also think Obama is a closet muslim.

May I ask why you believe this? I see Barry more as the Black Liberation Theology type (like Jerimiah Wright and Leah Daughtry (the minister that had so much input into the Democratic platform.) That dovetails with his connections with William Ayers. But I am willing to be open minded.

LogansPapa
09-12-2008, 02:59 PM
So the question comes to my mind: Do Muslims believe that all not of their faith should be exterminated? And if so - what percentage believe that? And, vice versa - What do Evangelical Christians believe?

Teetop
09-12-2008, 03:43 PM
Race does not matter to me, at all. SnObama is just an empty suit. :D

Rebel Yell
09-12-2008, 03:47 PM
Race does still matter today. It will always matter until we shut the fuck up about race. People can't forget race when it's constantly thrown up in everyone's face.

PoliCon
09-12-2008, 05:52 PM
you're a fool if you vote for anything other than the candidates stance on the issues and the content of their character. I have never let the color of a persons skin sway what I think of them any more than I let the color of their eyes sway me.

d_va
09-12-2008, 06:08 PM
You bet race matters, Obama is our first Afirmative Action candidate. Is he qualified?

No.

Sadie5
09-12-2008, 08:32 PM
Obama has run his campaign on race from the start. I am tired of being called racist because I won't vote for him. This has been to core of his campaign. I do believe he is still a Muslim because if you join the Muslim faith you are one until you die. There are a few other Muslims in Congress so it really doesn't bother me as long as there is no drive for Muslim to be the national religion. Obama lacks substance, he has no acompolishments other than his taking credit for bills others wrote, voting present, and attending 143 days in the Senate. Palin has run a large state, Obama organized communities so well that his slick pal Rezko lacked the funds needed to provide heat for his tenants, yet he found money for Obama's campaign and both of the lived in mansions while Rezko's wife presented the Obama's with a piece of land as a present. These things are the real'issues'.

MrsSmith
09-12-2008, 08:35 PM
So the question comes to my mind: Do Muslims believe that all not of their faith should be exterminated? And if so - what percentage believe that? And, vice versa - What do Evangelical Christians believe?

All people are created by God. Some reject Him. It's our job to teach, it's His job to save. For a personal rule, turn the other cheek holds. It does not hold when someone besides yourself is threatened. You are responsible for defending anyone else to the limits of your ability.

Only Jesus knows which people are members of His church, but we can see that those with "bad" fruit are likely not...or at least, backsliden. It is our job, if we can, to lead them to truth. If we can't, we are to pray for them.

We are to take the Good News into every corner of the world, and share the joy of Christ with all...even if we die. No where does He say anything about us killing those who do not believe, or converting "by the sword."

Does this answer your question?

And on the subject of Obama, I would not vote for him because of his stance on abortion, on the Live Infant Act, and on healthcare. His race is not an issue...his issues are a problem.

wilbur
09-12-2008, 08:37 PM
Obama has run his campaign on race from the start. I am tired of being called racist because I won't vote for him. This has been to core of his campaign. I do believe he is still a Muslim because if you join the Muslim faith you are one until you die.

The same is technically true for Catholics and probably other Christian sects once you've been baptized. Personally, its scary to me when politicians actually believe their religions too much, instead of using them as the decoration that they pay lip service to in order to to get elected.

hampshirebrit
09-12-2008, 08:47 PM
All people are created by God. Some reject Him. It's our job to teach, it's His job to save. For a personal rule, turn the other cheek holds. It does not hold when someone besides yourself is threatened. You are responsible for defending anyone else to the limits of your ability. .

Not trying to be snarky, serious question for you:

Do I read that as meaning you should not defend yourself against a direct threat, but you should defend anyone else against a serious threat?

PoliCon
09-12-2008, 09:22 PM
The same is technically true for Catholics and probably other Christian sects once you've been baptized. Personally, its scary to me when politicians actually believe their religions too much, instead of using them as the decoration that they pay lip service to in order to to get elected. And here you have the leftist take on religion. Treat it as a hoby or as window dressing - something you do one morning a week and they are fine with it. Treat it as a way of life - and they get scared.

AmPat
09-12-2008, 10:03 PM
And here you have the leftist take on religion. Treat it as a hoby or as window dressing - something you do one morning a week and they are fine with it. Treat it as a way of life - and they get scared.

Good point.

LogansPapa
09-13-2008, 11:14 AM
All people are created by God. Some reject Him. It's our job to teach, it's His job to save.

Does any religion not promise ‘life after death?’ :confused:

lacarnut
09-13-2008, 11:50 AM
Race does still matter today. It will always matter until we shut the fuck up about race. People can't forget race when it's constantly thrown up in everyone's face.

Very true. I will be voting for a Democratic Black Mayor in November. It will be my first vote for a black and a first vote for a Democrat in my many years of voting. After Katrina when we had thousands of refugees from New Orleans, he got on TV and said he was not going to allow N.O. thugs to take over this city. He kept the city safe by employing law enforcement officers from out of state and this state.

GrumpyOldLady
09-13-2008, 07:38 PM
May I ask why you believe this? I see Barry more as the Black Liberation Theology type .

Actually, I believe that he is whatever religion the crowd at the moement wants him to be.

However, his 'spring break' in Pakistan makes me wonder and then his telling the reporter that the muslim call to prayer was 'the most beautiful sound in the world' (and then Barry went and SANG it perfectly to the reporter) - no Christian would think that or do that.

GrumpyOldLady
09-13-2008, 07:39 PM
Does any religion not promise ‘life after death?’ :confused:
Secular Humanism. And yes, I believe it's a religion. Philosophers will say it's not. But I say it is.

MrsSmith
09-13-2008, 09:08 PM
Not trying to be snarky, serious question for you:

Do I read that as meaning you should not defend yourself against a direct threat, but you should defend anyone else against a serious threat?

Basically, yes. In the case that I am threatened, since I know what will happen when I die, I should not defend my own person. However, when I am responsible for defending other people, my children, for instance, the situation will dictate whether I can defend them by losing my life, or defend them by defending myself. While we are told to turn the other cheek, or give the tunic along with the cloak, or walk the extra mile, we are never, ever told to turn another person's cheek, give another person's tunic and cloak, or get someone else to walk the extra mile for us. (Probably one reason why evangelicals are less likely to vote Democrat.)

LogansPapa
09-14-2008, 01:02 AM
Secular Humanism. And yes, I believe it's a religion. Philosophers will say it's not. But I say it is.

Again - if it doesn't have that as its basis - it is not a religion, no matter what you believe.:rolleyes:

PoliCon
09-14-2008, 08:50 AM
Again - if it doesn't have that as its basis - it is not a religion, no matter what you believe.:rolleyes:when did we switch from race to religion?

LogansPapa
09-14-2008, 12:28 PM
when did we switch from race to religion?

We didn't:

"I look at Obama, and I have a question in my mind," she says. "Years ago, was he taken into the Muslim faith? And my concern is the only way you are no longer a Muslim is if you are dead, killed. So in my mind, he's still alive."

Although Barack Obama has said repeatedly he is not a Muslim and has never been a Muslim, Moreland is still unconvinced.

"There is something about him I don't trust," she says. "I don't care how good a speaker he is, I just can't trust him."

But she did.;)

PoliCon
09-14-2008, 01:40 PM
dude - it takes 2 or more to have a conversation. She may have thrown that out there - but she is not the one who responded to it.

LogansPapa
09-14-2008, 02:57 PM
dude - it takes 2 or more to have a conversation. She may have thrown that out there - but she is not the one who responded to it.

Dude, go listen to the audio to see just how wrong you are, about the reaction.

AmPat
09-14-2008, 08:27 PM
Dude, go listen to the audio to see just how wrong you are, about the reaction.
Uh-Bama himself said he was a muslim. Georgy Stepanopolis not only gave him a pass but corrected him immediately, thereby covering up for him. Now how would that have worked in liberal media land had the Gaff? been a Conservative candidate?

LogansPapa
09-14-2008, 09:54 PM
Uh-Bama himself said he was a muslim. Georgy Stepanopolis not only gave him a pass but corrected him immediately, thereby covering up for him. Now how would that have worked in liberal media land had the Gaff? been a Conservative candidate?

Not the issue here. Please stay on topic. This lady believes that a Muslim at six years old is a Muslim forever, despite spending a few Sundays in a Christian church. She's not basing her perspective on rationality. Like me claiming that if Palin one day becomes Commander-in-Chief she might tune in her 'Radio to God', as a Pentecostal, begin to speak in tongues, and then start WW3. Again, not rational.

PoliCon
09-14-2008, 10:07 PM
Not the issue here. Please stay on topic. This lady believes that a Muslim at six years old is a Muslim forever, despite spending a few Sundays in a Christian church. She's not basing her perspective on rationality. Like me claiming that if Palin one day becomes Commander-in-Chief she might tune in her 'Radio to God', as a Pentecostal, begin to speak in tongues, and then start WW3. Again, not rational.According to islamic doctrine - once a muslim ALWAYS a muslim. Do don't get to deconvert. You get to die at the hands of a righteous muslim - but you don't get to die. Furthermore, since Osama has not repudiated islam - as far as they are concerned - he's still a muslim.

LogansPapa
09-14-2008, 10:08 PM
According to islamic doctrine - once a muslim ALWAYS a muslim. Do don't get to deconvert. You get to die at the hands of a righteous muslim - but you don't get to die. Furthermore, since Osama has not repudiated islam - as far as they are concerned - he's still a muslim.

I didn't realise Obama hasn't stated he was a Christian. ;)

PoliCon
09-14-2008, 10:11 PM
I didn't realise Obama hasn't stated he was a Christian. ;)do you forget or are you unaware that all muslims consider themselves Christians?

Shannon
09-14-2008, 10:18 PM
do you forget or are you unaware that all muslims consider themselves Christians?

Now I know why I post here. What? I did not know this. Please explain.

LogansPapa
09-14-2008, 10:27 PM
do you forget or are you unaware that all muslims consider themselves Christians?


I know that Muslims find some of the ancient people of Christianity their ancestors too, but I always assumed the word "infidels" used to describe anyone other than the believers of Islam was a rejection of all those calling themselves Christian.

PoliCon
09-14-2008, 10:29 PM
Now I know why I post here. What? I did not know this. Please explain.quite simply Christ is a prophet in their religion. He is the last and greatest prophet short of mohammed himself. They believe that his followers distorted his teachings to a large degree - but they will tell you that they are Christians as well - after all what does Christian mean?

PoliCon
09-14-2008, 10:33 PM
I know that Muslims find some of the ancient people of Christianity their ancestors too, but I always assumed the word "infidels" used to describe anyone other than the believers of Islam was a rejection of all those calling themselves Christian.Christians are not infidels - we are people of the book.

LogansPapa
09-14-2008, 10:47 PM
Christians are not infidels - we are people of the book.


Yes, but that wasn't really the issue. Some Muslims consider anyone outside their faith "infidels". Just ask a pilgrim in Mecca that question.

PoliCon
09-14-2008, 11:22 PM
Yes, but that wasn't really the issue. Some Muslims consider anyone outside their faith "infidels". Just ask a pilgrim in Mecca that question.Sorry - no. mohammy spoke protection onto people of the book and as such they are "protected" under islamic law - so long as they accept dhimmi status.

LogansPapa
09-14-2008, 11:42 PM
Sorry - no. mohammy spoke protection onto people of the book and as such they are "protected" under islamic law - so long as they accept dhimmi status.

Once more - in English, without the racism and disrespect?

PoliCon
09-15-2008, 12:00 AM
You got it in english. Only one word in it was not english - dhimmi. Dhimmi is a kind of "protected" status for non-muslims under islamic law. Dhimmi are second class citizens at best. They have very limited rights - such as being forbidden to practice their religion in public - laws against repairing places of worship - requirements to yield in all things to a muslim man - etc.

It fits right in with the islamic notion that once land is held by a muslim - it cannot for any reason be held by a non-muslim. If it should end up in non-muslim hands - a devote muslim is duty bound to liberate that land and return it to muslim hands. A lesson spain has apparently forgotten.