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View Full Version : "Jesus didn't teach us to hate the poor and worship wealth.



Carol
12-10-2011, 12:14 AM
link (http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x2455814)

Aren't they cute when they try to use the bible, something they know little about to denounce others and claim themselves righteous apart from Jesus.

Sad, because we know how their efforts will end up.

Cute, because they actually seem to think that they earn points or "win" because of this.


Fire Walk With Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Fri Dec-09-11 07:59 PM
Original message
"Jesus didn't teach us to hate the poor and worship wealth. Updated at 9:27 PM

Satan did." -Being Liberal on Facebook.

"Something that Rick Perry, his supporters, and MANY members of the GOP should remember..."

And Jesus never taught that the poor should be given money, food, clothing, shelter when they are able to work. Widows who are unable to work and the disabled are not part of that group. And at NO time did he preach or teach that money should be taken by force to given to those deemed by government to be worthy.


WingDinger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Fri Dec-09-11 08:41 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. What he DID do, is advocate for nonviolent disobedience.

He threw those goldline frauds from the currency exchange window. Short term payday loans, table thrown. Debit card monthly fee table thrown. Paying three to four times the value of your mortgage, table thrown. Owing forever on student loan, table thrown.


Good thing OCCUPY doesnt have anyone they can crucify.

MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Fri Dec-09-11 08:35 PM
Response to Original message
4. So true. For those who profess Christianity, a re-reading

of Matthew is in order.
OK, liberals. That was in the temple, GOD's HOUSE. Show me in the bible where He does this in the Roman marketplace and I'll convert to liberalism.

AmPat
12-10-2011, 11:11 AM
Just like liberals to attempt to latch on to something they know absolutely nothing about and make absolute asses of themselves. They look just like their party mascot, especially the rear part.

THE Gypsy
12-10-2011, 12:29 PM
A little Scripture, out of context, goes a very long way.

What nonsense. :cool:

Wei Wu Wei
12-10-2011, 12:41 PM
Why is there an automatic assumption that anyone who leans left politically cannot be religious or know anything about religion?

I lean left politically, and I was raised in a very religious home. I went to church at least 3 times a week growing up, fully participating in year-round activities. I was taught that loving God and following the Bible was the number 1 rule, including the commandants like honoring thy mother and father. I taught that I should love and honor God just as much (more even) than I did my own parents, whom I deeply loved and respected. My uncle was my pastor growing up, and I was engaged in religious discussion at a very young age.

In my early adulthood I flirted with exploring the world of ideas, even taking a liking to people like Richard Dawkins. I didn't want to believe what I believed simply because I was always told to. I kept exploring and found my way back towards a love for God, with a renewed understanding of Christianity, and I'm happy to still be learning.

I see absolutely no conflict between left-wing political beliefs and a knowledge, fear, and love for God.

There is some deep contemptuous piety in conservative circles that, in my opinion, is very un-christianlike

Wei Wu Wei
12-10-2011, 12:49 PM
Martin Luther King Jr. is a great example. He was a left-wing icon in his time, and continues to be one of the best remembered (but unfortunately poorly understood) leaders in all of American history.

He was deeply religious, headed a church, and was a walking example of Christianity in practice. He was also an activist that many people considered to be radical. The FBI were all over him because he was too radical for our society.

He was a strong advocate for social and economic justice. Martin Luther King jr didn't go around talking about "tolerance", he talked about laws, he talked about the economy, he talked about labor, he talked about the war.

He supported union strikes and was starkly against the war in Vietnam. One of his greatest speeches, in my opinion, was his speech "Why I'm against the War in Vietnam".

He even went as far as to advocate for democratic-socialism, when knee-jerk people were all foaming at the mouth over cold war hysteria. He fought for all of this through a system of non-violence.

He lead marches and protests that were met with disproportionate police force, with harsh public reaction, with outright violence. He used his strength through God to keep him going through the oppressive tide of established resistance.

He was left-wing, anti-war, pro-social justice, pro-economic justice, critical of capitalism, and one of the strongest-willed and well known men of God in our history.

Rockntractor
12-10-2011, 01:09 PM
Martin Luther King Jr. is a great example. He was a left-wing icon in his time, and continues to be one of the best remembered (but unfortunately poorly understood) leaders in all of American history.



He was a Republican and it was the Democrats that tried to block the civil rights amendment.

Apache
12-10-2011, 04:18 PM
Martin Luther King Jr. is a great example. He was a left-wing icon in his time, and continues to be one of the best remembered (but unfortunately poorly understood) leaders in all of American history.

He was deeply religious, headed a church, and was a walking example of Christianity in practice. He was also an activist that many people considered to be radical. The FBI were all over him because he was too radical for our society.

He was a strong advocate for social and economic justice. Martin Luther King jr didn't go around talking about "tolerance", he talked about laws, he talked about the economy, he talked about labor, he talked about the war.

He supported union strikes and was starkly against the war in Vietnam. One of his greatest speeches, in my opinion, was his speech "Why I'm against the War in Vietnam".

He even went as far as to advocate for democratic-socialism, when knee-jerk people were all foaming at the mouth over cold war hysteria. He fought for all of this through a system of non-violence.

He lead marches and protests that were met with disproportionate police force, with harsh public reaction, with outright violence. He used his strength through God to keep him going through the oppressive tide of established resistance.

He was left-wing, anti-war, pro-social justice, pro-economic justice, critical of capitalism, and one of the strongest-willed and well known men of God in our history.

This shows that you know NOTHING of the man... Nice try though. King is too recent for you to twist the facts of his message.

JB
12-10-2011, 04:30 PM
Why is there an automatic assumption that anyone who leans left politically cannot be religious or know anything about religion?We're talking about DU here.

Do you read DU? Do you have any idea regarding their disdain for religion? How they hold in contempt anyone that would have faith of any kind? Particularly Christianity. Their moral equivalence arguments (because they loathe Christianity) when radical muzzies commit yet another terrorist action in the name of their religion?

To watch them try and apply the teachings of Christ to serve their end is laughable. Which is why we laugh at them.

Wei Wu Wei
12-10-2011, 06:37 PM
He was a Republican and it was the Democrats that tried to block the civil rights amendment.

I never said a word about republicans or democrats. I also do not disagree with you here.

Wei Wu Wei
12-10-2011, 06:49 PM
This shows that you know NOTHING of the man... Nice try though. King is too recent for you to twist the facts of his message.
Over the past two years, as I have moved to break the betrayal of my own silences and to speak from the burnings of my own heart, as I have called for radical departures from the destruction of Vietnam, many persons have questioned me about the wisdom of my path. At the heart of their concerns this query has often loomed large and loud: Why are you speaking about war, Dr. King? Why are you joining the voices of dissent? Peace and civil rights don't mix, they say. Aren't you hurting the cause of your people, they ask? And when I hear them, though I often understand the source of their concern, I am nevertheless greatly saddened, for such questions mean that the inquirers have not really known me, my commitment or my calling. Indeed, their questions suggest that they do not know the world in which they live.
-MLK JR

I submit that an individual who breaks a law that conscience tells him is unjust, and who willingly accepts the penalty of imprisonment in order to arouse the conscience of the community over its injustice, is in reality expressing the highest respect for the law.

-Martin Luther King Jr.


When you are right you cannot be too radical; when you are wrong, you cannot be too conservative.
-Martin Luther King Jr

There are certain things in our nation and in the world which I am proud to be maladjusted and which I hope all men of good-will will be maladjusted until the good societies realize — I say very honestly that I never intend to become adjusted to — segregation and discrimination. I never intend to become adjusted to religious bigotry. I never intend to adjust myself to economic conditions that will take necessities from the many to give luxuries to the few. I never intend to adjust myself to the madness of militarism, to self-defeating effects of physical violence. But in a day when sputniks and explorers are dashing through outer space and guided ballistic missiles are carving highways of death through the stratosphere, no nation can win a war. It is no longer the choice between violence and nonviolence. It is either nonviolence or nonexistence…
-Martin Luther King Jr

A riot is the language of the unheard.
-Martin Luther King Jr

As I have walked among the desperate, rejected and angry young men I have told them that Molotov cocktails and rifles would not solve their problems. I have tried to offer them my deepest compassion while maintaining my conviction that social change comes most meaningfully through nonviolent action. But they asked — and rightly so — what about Vietnam? They asked if our own nation wasn't using massive doses of violence to solve its problems, to bring about the changes it wanted. Their questions hit home, and I knew that I could never again raise my voice against the violence of the oppressed in the ghettos without having first spoken clearly to the greatest purveyor of violence in the world today — my own government.

-Martin Luther King Jr

I am convinced that if we are to get on the right side of the world revolution, we as a nation must undergo a radical revolution of values. We must rapidly begin the shift from a "thing-oriented" society to a "person-oriented" society. When machines and computers, profit motives and property rights are considered more important than people, the giant triplets of racism, materialism, and militarism are incapable of being conquered.
-Martin Luther King Jr

On the one hand, we are called to play the Good Samaritan on life's roadside, but that will be only an initial act. One day we must come to see that the whole Jericho Road must be transformed so that men and women will not be constantly beaten and robbed as they make their journey on life's highway. True compassion is more than flinging a coin to a beggar. It comes to see that an edifice which produces beggars needs restructuring.
Martin Luther King Jr

Wei Wu Wei
12-10-2011, 07:01 PM
And as I ponder the madness of Vietnam and search within myself for ways to understand and respond in compassion, my mind goes constantly to the people of that peninsula. I speak not now of the soldiers of each side, not of military government in Saigon, but simply of the people who have been under the curse of war for almost three continuous decades now. I think of them too because it is clear to me that there will be no meaningful solution until some attempt is made to know these people and hear their broken cries. Now let me tell you the truth about it. They must see Americans as strange liberators. Do you realize that the Vietnamese people proclaimed their own independence in 1945, after a combined French and Japanese occupation. And incidentally, this was before the communist revolution in China. They were led by Ho Chi Minh. And this is a little known fact, these people declared themselves independent in 1945, they quoted our Declaration of Independence in their document of freedom. And yet our government refused to recognize, President Truman said they were not ready for independence. So we failed victim as a nation at that time of the same deadly arrogance that has poisoned the international situation for all of these years. France then set out to reconquer its former colony. And they fought eight long, hard, brutal years, trying to reconquer Vietnam. You know who helped France? It was the United States of America, it came to the point that we were meeting more than 80% of the war cost. And even when France started despairing of its reckless action, we did not. And in 1954, a conference was called at Geneva, and an agreement was reached, because France had been defeated at Dien Bien Phu. But even after that and even after the Geneva Accord, we did not stop. We must face the sad fact that our government sought in a real sense to sabotage the Geneva Accord. Well, after the French were defeated, it looked as if independence and land reform would come through the Geneva agreement. But instead the United States came and started supporting a man named Diem, who turned out to be one of the most ruthless dictators in the history of the world. He set out to silence all opposition, people were brutally murdered merely because they raised their voices against the brutal policies of Diem. And the peasants watched and cringed as Diem ruthlessly rooted out all opposition. The peasants watched as all this was presided over by United States influence, and then by increasing numbers of United States troops, who came to help quell the insurgency that Diem's methods had aroused. When Diem was overthrown they may have been happy, but the long line of military dictatorships seemed to offer no real change, especially in terms of their need for land and peace. And who are we supporting in Vietnam today? It's a man by the name of General Ky, who fought with the French against his own people, and who said on one occasion that the greatest hero of his life is Hitler. This is who we're supporting in Vietnam today. Oh, our government, and the press generally, won't tell us these things, but God told me to tell you this morning. The truth must be told.
-Martin Luther King Jr

Don't let anybody make you think God chose America as his divine messianic force to be a sort of policeman of the whole world. God has a way of standing before the nations with justice and it seems I can hear God saying to America "you are too arrogant, and if you don't change your ways, I will rise up and break the backbone of your power, and I will place it in the hands of a nation that doesn't even know my name. Be still and know that I'm God. Men will beat their swords into plowshafts and their spears into pruning hooks, and nations shall not rise up against nations, neither shall they study war anymore." I don't know about you, I ain't going to study war anymore.
-Martin Luther King Jr

All we say to America is, "Be true to what you said on paper." If I lived in China or even Russia, or any totalitarian country, maybe I could understand the denial of certain basic First Amendment privileges, because they hadn't committed themselves to that over there. But somewhere I read of the freedom of assembly. Somewhere I read of the freedom of speech. Somewhere I read of the freedom of the press. Somewhere I read that the greatness of America is the right to protest for right. And so just as I say, we aren't going to let any injunction turn us around. We are going on.
-Martin Luther King Jr

A nation that continues year after year to spend more money on military defense than on programs of social uplift is approaching spiritual death.
-Martin Luther King Jr

You can’t talk about solving the economic problem of the Negro without talking about billions of dollars. You can’t talk about ending the slums without first saying profit must be taken out of slums. You’re really tampering and getting on dangerous ground because you are messing with folk then. You are messing with captains of industry… Now this means that we are treading in difficult water, because it really means that we are saying that something is wrong…with capitalism… There must be a better distribution of wealth and maybe America must move toward a Democratic Socialism.
-Martin Luther King Jr

Carol
12-10-2011, 07:46 PM
I see absolutely no conflict between left-wing political beliefs and a knowledge, fear, and love for God.

There is some deep contemptuous piety in conservative circles that, in my opinion, is very un-christianlike

I never said anything about liberal Christians. I did talk about DUers who use the bible to blame and attempt to shame conservatives when they themselves show that they do not know the bible or the context from which they are quoting.

If you read DU you know that the anti Christian, anti Conservative (as well as some liberal Christians) contingent does this on a regular basis. Somehow they think they prove points or "win" when they do this. Instead they look foolish and ignorant.

JB
12-10-2011, 08:20 PM
...it really means that we are saying that something is wrong…with capitalism… There must be a better distribution of wealth and maybe America must move toward a Democratic Socialism.
-Martin Luther King JrI can see why you love him.

And quit jacking the damn thread. But since we're quoting:

“Whatever your life's work is, do it well. A man should do his job so well that the living, the dead, and the unborn could do it no better.”

I don't think there's a person on DU that lives that creed.

And I'll start believing Democrats love of King when they actually start judging a man by his character and not his skin color.

Wei Wu Wei
12-10-2011, 09:28 PM
I never said anything about liberal Christians. I did talk about DUers who use the bible to blame and attempt to shame conservatives when they themselves show that they do not know the bible or the context from which they are quoting.

If you read DU you know that the anti Christian, anti Conservative (as well as some liberal Christians) contingent does this on a regular basis. Somehow they think they prove points or "win" when they do this. Instead they look foolish and ignorant.

Well I can agree that anti-religion liberals very often do come off as foolish very often, not just when they quote the bible.

Apache
12-10-2011, 11:21 PM
Care to post the links you used? So I can see the context in which some of these quotes are used...

People on the Left are famous for leaving relevant context out of their talking points...;)

NJCardFan
12-10-2011, 11:26 PM
...it really means that we are saying that something is wrong…with capitalism… There must be a better distribution of wealth and maybe America must move toward a Democratic Socialism.
-Martin Luther King Jr

This statement only proves King's ignorance in economics. Wealth is earned, not distributed.

Wei Wu Wei
12-11-2011, 12:41 AM
This statement only proves King's ignorance in economics. Wealth is earned, not distributed.

In utopian fantasyland maybe, but in reality, you cannot have economic policies that do not benefit one party or another. The existence of the government necessitates the intervention of the government in the economy, the only question is what type of intervention, and who are the winners and losers,.

As long as the government exists and laws exist that apply to economics, there is no true free market. The "free market" only exists as a theoretical construct that only functions if you limit yourself to the concepts of the 18th century.

AmPat
12-11-2011, 10:17 AM
Why is there an automatic assumption that anyone who leans left politically cannot be religious or know anything about religion?

I lean left politically, and I was raised in a very religious home. I went to church at least 3 times a week growing up, fully participating in year-round activities. I was taught that loving God and following the Bible was the number 1 rule, including the commandants like honoring thy mother and father. I taught that I should love and honor God just as much (more even) than I did my own parents, whom I deeply loved and respected. My uncle was my pastor growing up, and I was engaged in religious discussion at a very young age.

In my early adulthood I flirted with exploring the world of ideas, even taking a liking to people like Richard Dawkins. I didn't want to believe what I believed simply because I was always told to. I kept exploring and found my way back towards a love for God, with a renewed understanding of Christianity, and I'm happy to still be learning.

I see absolutely no conflict between left-wing political beliefs and a knowledge, fear, and love for God.

There is some deep contemptuous piety in conservative circles that, in my opinion, is very un-christianlikeOh, I don't know. Perhaps the preponderance of anti-Christian posts that come from nearly every left-leaning site or publication? Perhaps their close affiliation with atheism? Perhaps their crusade to slaughter as many babies in and out of the womb as possible, including our devoutly Christian president, who couldn't find a Church for two years after leaving his racist, bigoted Church and pastor that he never listened to for 20 years?

I don't know. That whole preponderance of the evidence thing just keeps interfering with my acceptance of liberalism and Christianity having a viable, believable link.:cool:

raiderguy8
12-11-2011, 08:29 PM
Nowhere in the Bible is it ever suggested that a Christian's responsibility to provide for the poor can be farmed out to a government agency. Anytime that caring for the poor is mentioned it is in the context of doing it on a personal level.

noonwitch
12-12-2011, 10:09 AM
There's nothing in the Bible that says that the government should take care of the poor. There is ample teaching that individuals and the church should take care of the poor. A representative government that decides to take care of the poor is one of those things that is up to the people who vote the representatives into office.

But let's say that 100% of americans agreed that it is the government's responsibility to take care of the poor. Does that mean that poverty in the USA will be eliminated? Does that end a Christian's responsibility to take care of the poor, since he is paying taxes to the government for them to do so? Did Christ really want a faceless bureaucracy dealing with the poor and the afflicted? Or did He want His followers to personally serve the poor, and build relationships with them?

Arroyo_Doble
12-12-2011, 10:17 AM
And at NO time did he preach or teach that money should be taken by force to given to those deemed by government to be worthy.


Then the Pharisees went out and laid plans to trap him in his words. They sent their disciples to him along with the Herodians. “Teacher,” they said, “we know that you are a man of integrity and that you teach the way of God in accordance with the truth. You aren’t swayed by others, because you pay no attention to who they are. Tell us then, what is your opinion? Is it right to pay the imperial tax to Caesar or not?”

But Jesus, knowing their evil intent, said, “You hypocrites, why are you trying to trap me? Show me the coin used for paying the tax.” They brought him a denarius, and he asked them, “Whose image is this? And whose inscription?”



http://www.marshu.com/articles/images-website/articles/presidents-on-us-paper-money/one-dollar-bill-large.jpg



Looks like Washington to me .....

NJCardFan
12-12-2011, 10:34 AM
You're an asshole.

Arroyo_Doble
12-12-2011, 10:56 AM
You're an asshole.

Sounds like something Saul of Tarsus might have said to Stephen just before Stephen was stoned to death.