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Wei Wu Wei
12-29-2011, 06:45 PM
http://www.democraticunderground.com/100284773

Interesting thread:


Last edited Thu Dec 29, 2011, 11:52 AM USA/ET - Edit history (1)

I notice everything around me, and, having lived abroad, I noticed a huge difference in the work rules between Europe and the U.S.

For example:
Cashiers at stores and supermarkets in Europe are allowed to sit as they work;
Workers have a month (or longer) of vacation, and many, many holidays;
Cafeterias inside corporate buildings offer wine, and workers have wine during lunch (and return to lunch feeling quite good lol);

This, without even mentioning that they have unions, get paid more, and don't have to depend on jobs to have health care, which is socialized.

I think there's a treadmill attitude toward work here, the worker seen as the hamster, which does not exist in Europe.

I recall hearing someone tell how at her customer service job here in the U.S. (answering phones), the phones were very unbusy that day, and she had stood up to stretch and talk to the person in the next booth (who was also not busy). Suddenly, the manager approached her and said, "You can't just 'stand around' like that. You have to DO something. If you're not busy, sign off and go get a broom or something, sweep, we're not paying you to talk to your friends!"

There's a completely enslaving attitude about work in the U.S., the worker seen as the lazy bum, stealing money. And yet, recently I've been hearing how the American workplace is actually LESS productive than workplaces abroad.

-------------------------
Why Germans Have Longer Vacation Times and More Productivity

It seems many Americans are born hard-wired with the belief that productivity requires time. There are no shortcuts for a good, Puritan work ethic. It's the American Way, after all. We love stories of companies who started with nothing and worked like dogs to become massive successes. The Sam Waltons, the Bill Gates—these are true American heroes.

Self-sacrifice has almost always gone hand-in-hand with entrepreneurship and small businesses. We're capitalists, and he who works the most makes the most money at the end of the day. Or so it would seem.

Yet Europeans have always seemed to have taken a different route when it comes to the work/life balance. Germans on average work around 1,436 hours per year, versus the 1,804 hours Americans work. With those numbers it would be easy to conclude that Americans do more and would be more productive in the workforce. But we don't. Studies show that Germans get roughly the same amount of stuff done in fewer hours each week, and with more vacation time.

More at the link:
http://www.openforum.com/idea-hub/topics/lifestyle/article/why-germans-have-longer-vacation-times-and-more-productivity-glen-stansberry

Adam Wood
12-29-2011, 10:08 PM
The whole thing starts out with a false premise:


It seems many Americans are born hard-wired with the belief that productivity requires time. There are no shortcuts for a good, Puritan work ethic. It's the American Way, after all. We love stories of companies who started with nothing and worked like dogs to become massive successes. The Sam Waltons, the Bill Gates—these are true American heroes.That's not true. Not at all. Those who are successful build the proverbial better mousetrap. No one ever said that if you dig more ditches than the next guy, you'll get ahead. They did say that if you come up with a better way to dig ditches, you'll get ahead.

Rockntractor
12-29-2011, 10:19 PM
The whole thing starts out with a false premise:

That's not true. Not at all. Those who are successful build the proverbial better mousetrap. No one ever said that if you dig more ditches than the next guy, you'll get ahead. They did say that if you come up with a better way to dig ditches, you'll get ahead.

You can't just dig the ditch, you have to get a permit first and then pay for a study on the environmental impact.

JB
12-30-2011, 05:44 PM
Interesting threadWhat's so interesting about it? It's a typical DU I Hate America thread.

I find it rather dull.

Bailey
12-30-2011, 05:47 PM
http://www.democraticunderground.com/100284773

Interesting thread:

Where is the intresting part? :confused:

Tipsycatlover
12-30-2011, 06:00 PM
The difference is that in the German customer service department the two clerks who had nothing to do would have gotten a broom and started sweeping without being told to do so.

In Germany workers get paid to work which they do. In America people get paid to goof off and regard those who work as giving others a bad name.

Wei Wu Wei
01-04-2012, 06:22 PM
The difference is that in the German customer service department the two clerks who had nothing to do would have gotten a broom and started sweeping without being told to do so.

In Germany workers get paid to work which they do. In America people get paid to goof off and regard those who work as giving others a bad name.

In germany workers control half of the company that they work for, giving them a sense of ownership and shared responsibility.

Apache
01-04-2012, 07:08 PM
In germany workers control half of the company that they work for, giving them a sense of ownership and shared responsibility.

Idea. Move to Germany...:rolleyes:

Wei Wu Wei
01-04-2012, 07:33 PM
The people I've known and loved all of my life have been working people in America, my home. Why would I want to leave? Wouldn't it be better to fight to make this nation a better place for the working people I love?

Apache
01-04-2012, 08:03 PM
The people I've known and loved all of my life have been working people in America, my home. Why would I want to leave? Wouldn't it be better to fight to make this nation a better place for the working people I love?

No, cause what you want isn't American, it's German. Since Germany already exists, MOVE THERE...

Articulate_Ape
01-04-2012, 08:39 PM
The people I've known and loved all of my life have been working people in America, my home. Why would I want to leave? Wouldn't it be better to fight to make this nation a better place for the working people I love?

I'm betting that there are a shitload of Germans, as well as other Europeans, look west (i.e. the US) for a place to escape the "utopia" you want us to import from their failed nations. I predict that Europe will be immersed in chaos and war (again) within this decade. A facsimile of the same will happen here, but only because you and your ilk have attempted to install the same model here for decades with an unfortunate level success.

Times they are a'changing.

Teetop
01-04-2012, 09:59 PM
In germany workers control half of the company that they work for, giving them a sense of ownership and shared responsibility.

Bull. Shit. I need a cite for this bullshit. I was in Germany in the early 80's.


I call bullshit, on this bullshit.:rolleyes:


The Germans are some engineering mutha effas!

Wei Wu Wei
01-04-2012, 10:43 PM
Bull. Shit. I need a cite for this bullshit. I was in Germany in the early 80's.


I call bullshit, on this bullshit.:rolleyes:


The Germans are some engineering mutha effas!

google german codetermination. i don't know the name of the law in it's german form but it's effectively a "codetermination law". it principally applies to larger companies but there is a version in place for medium sized companies as well.

Teetop
01-05-2012, 08:32 AM
google german codetermination. i don't know the name of the law in it's german form but it's effectively a "codetermination law". it principally applies to larger companies but there is a version in place for medium sized companies as well.

YOU google it, fool! I asked for a cite.

I could google German laziness and two million hits pop up. It doesn't make it so....

Tipsycatlover
01-05-2012, 09:57 AM
The Germans are a different people. They work, they take pride in being productive. Americans take pride in how much they can get away with. If Americans are in control of their company, it's three hour lunch breaks and the right to smoke dope on the job.

Arroyo_Doble
01-05-2012, 10:00 AM
I'm betting that there are a shitload of Germans, as well as other Europeans, look west (i.e. the US) for a place to escape the "utopia" you want us to import from their failed nations. I predict that Europe will be immersed in chaos and war (again) within this decade. A facsimile of the same will happen here, but only because you and your ilk have attempted to install the same model here for decades with an unfortunate level success.

Times they are a'changing.

That's a pretty hot sports opinion there.

Molon Labe
01-05-2012, 11:31 AM
In germany workers control half of the company that they work for, giving them a sense of ownership and shared responsibility.

that's fine if the said company has a "choice" in doing that. There are plenty of small compnanies in the US that operate like this. The problem comes down to it being mandatory for property and business owners to do this.

Adam Wood
01-05-2012, 11:53 AM
In germany workers control half of the company that they work for, giving them a sense of ownership and shared responsibility.
Bull. Shit. I need a cite for this bullshit. I was in Germany in the early 80's.


I call bullshit, on this bullshit.:rolleyes:


The Germans are some engineering mutha effas!
google german codetermination. i don't know the name of the law in it's german form but it's effectively a "codetermination law". it principally applies to larger companies but there is a version in place for medium sized companies as well.
that's fine if the said company has a "choice" in doing that. There are plenty of small compnanies in the US that operate like this. The problem comes down to it being mandatory for property and business owners to do this.Wee wee is spouting off without having his facts straight. Everyone act surprised. Mitbestimmungsgesetz (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Codetermination_in_Germany) does not say that workers control or own half the company. The law says that larger companies must allow a less-than-controlling interest in the board of directors be elected by the workers. Wildly different from what Wee wee claimed.

BadCat
01-05-2012, 12:23 PM
Yeah, let's just add this to our list of GREAT GERMAN IDEAS...

Concentration camps
Ethnic cleansing
Nerve gas
White supremacy

Wei Wu Wei
01-05-2012, 06:23 PM
Wee wee is spouting off without having his facts straight. Everyone act surprised. Mitbestimmungsgesetz (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Codetermination_in_Germany) does not say that workers control or own half the company. The law says that larger companies must allow a less-than-controlling interest in the board of directors be elected by the workers. Wildly different from what Wee wee claimed.

Workers are allowed to elect half of the board in large companies. This is the same type of control that stock-owners have in the US.

Wei Wu Wei
01-05-2012, 06:26 PM
Yeah, let's just add this to our list of GREAT GERMAN IDEAS...

Concentration camps
Ethnic cleansing
Nerve gas
White supremacy

Do you really think giving workers power to have significant yet still partial control of their companies is comparable to the Holocaust?

Is this a thing you really believe?

Wei Wu Wei
01-05-2012, 06:31 PM
Yeah, let's just add this to our list of GREAT GERMAN IDEAS...

Concentration camps
Ethnic cleansing
Nerve gas
White supremacy

It is important to note that all of these Nazi actions should not be compared to these codetermination laws.

There is a long historical process of these laws coming into being in Germany, with the clear exception of the period of Nazi control. When the Nazi's came into power, they abolished work councils and dismantled unions. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Codetermination_in_Germany#Historical_development)

The Nazi's supported all the things you listed, but they were totally against what I am talking about. The Nazi's were all about preventing workers from unionizing or developing collective power in the name of "market freedom".

"We stand for the maintenance of private property... We shall protect free enterprise as the most expedient, or rather the sole possible economic order."
-Adolf Hitler

JB
01-05-2012, 06:44 PM
Workers are allowed to elect half of the board in large companies. This is the same type of control that stock-owners have in the US.And this is nowhere near what you stated in your original bullshit that you got called on. And you get called on a lot of your bullshit.

From now on, post links when you are posting what appears to be a fact instead of your opinion. Freaking lying ass commie bullshit out of you. Constantly.

Wei Wu Wei
01-05-2012, 06:53 PM
And this is nowhere near what you stated in your original bullshit that you got called on. And you get called on a lot of your bullshit.

From now on, post links when you are posting what appears to be a fact instead of your opinion. Freaking lying ass commie bullshit out of you. Constantly.

I didn't say the workers own half the company, I said they control it, and they do control in the only way you can control a company, by having your chosen representatives on the board of directors.

I'm not sure what you thought I meant by that.

I'm sorry if you are mad, trying taking a few breaths, calm down and look at what is being posted. If you want me to be more specific, I will, just don't start shitting yourself so quickly. Workers in Germany have significant control over their companies because they can elect half of the controlling board. This gives them a sense of responsibility over the company because they have representative control over it. This is extremely different from how things are in America.

Apache
01-05-2012, 07:21 PM
This is extremely different from how things are in America.

Know why? This is not Germany... go figure...:rolleyes:

AmPat
01-05-2012, 07:47 PM
I'd turn the question around: Why don't Germans work as hard as Americans?:cool:

Wei Wu Wei
01-05-2012, 08:02 PM
I'd turn the question around: Why don't Germans work as hard as Americans?:cool:

Why don't Americans work as hard as Chinese? :cool:


I'd turn the question around: Why don't Germans work as hard as Americans?:cool:

Because they can. Their economy is not in shambles. They are the #2 top exporter in the world, just below China (without having to pay their workers shit) and they are above the US. Their workers have better pay and more rights, they have subsidised their post-secondary education and their healthcare services, ensuring some of the most important and most expensive services that Americans have to pay out the ass for.

They have enormous worker-oriented policies that benefit the vast majority of their population. They have far lower income equality than in the US.

They've had higher GDP growth as a percentage in recent years, and their unemployment rate is lower than ours.

They have very robust social services and public spending, yet their debt-to-GDP ratio is far lower than ours.

AmPat
01-05-2012, 08:19 PM
Why don't Americans work as hard as Chinese? :cool:



Because they can. Their economy is not in shambles. They are the #2 top exporter in the world, just below China (without having to pay their workers shit) and they are above the US. Their workers have better pay and more rights, they have subsidised their post-secondary education and their healthcare services, ensuring some of the most important and most expensive services that Americans have to pay out the ass for.

They have enormous worker-oriented policies that benefit the vast majority of their population. They have far lower income equality than in the US.

They've had higher GDP growth as a percentage in recent years, and their unemployment rate is lower than ours.

They have very robust social services and public spending, yet their debt-to-GDP ratio is far lower than ours.
And yet Chinese and Germans still immigrate to America. Weird huh?

Wei Wu Wei
01-05-2012, 08:53 PM
And yet Chinese and Germans still immigrate to America. Weird huh?

You do realize that the US isn't the only country that people immigrate to right? Not to mention, brace yourself for this one, many Americans move to other countries.

Also, I just remembered, it doesn't even matter, none of that changes the facts I've given.

Rockntractor
01-05-2012, 09:04 PM
You do realize that the US isn't the only country that people immigrate to right? Not to mention, brace yourself for this one, many Americans move to other countries.



What are you waiting for, leave. I'm sure there are many countries that would just love a communist teaching assistant.

AmPat
01-05-2012, 09:11 PM
You do realize that the US isn't the only country that people immigrate to right? Not to mention, brace yourself for this one, many Americans move to other countries.

Also, I just remembered, it doesn't even matter, none of that changes the facts I've given.
I do. You do realize how condescending that question is. Just what country doe you think draws more immigrants?
1. China
2. Germany
3. USA

Also, as for Americans moving to other countries; what's keeping you here in this horrible country when Socialist nirvana is an airplane trip away?:cool:

Wei Wu Wei
01-05-2012, 09:40 PM
apparently I should repeat this


The people I've known and loved all of my life have been working people in America, my home. Why would I want to leave? Wouldn't it be better to fight to make this nation a better place for the working people I love?

Apache
01-05-2012, 09:52 PM
Repeat... as well...
No, cause what you want isn't American, it's German. Since Germany already exists, MOVE THERE...

ABC in Georgia
01-05-2012, 10:39 PM
What are you waiting for, leave. I'm sure there are many countries that would just love a communist teaching assistant.

Ha! Ha!

Thunderous, deafening, "twinkles up" :applause: ... :D

~ ABC

txradioguy
01-06-2012, 06:16 AM
Bull. Shit. I need a cite for this bullshit. I was in Germany in the early 80's.


I call bullshit, on this bullshit.:rolleyes:


The Germans are some engineering mutha effas!

You are right to raise the bullshit flag.

Zafod
01-06-2012, 08:58 AM
apparently I should repeat this. I am a big fat poppy head and America sucks!
....

Odysseus
01-06-2012, 11:23 AM
In germany workers control half of the company that they work for, giving them a sense of ownership and shared responsibility.
And yet, they work fewer hours and are less productive. I guess that the sense of ownership and responsibility doesn't equate to mission accomplishment.

The people I've known and loved all of my life have been working people in America, my home. Why would I want to leave? Wouldn't it be better to fight to make this nation a better place for the working people I love?
First, none of us believe that you love workers, except in the abstract. What we do believe is that you have no stake in a strong, prosperous America, and are fighting to weaken us economically, politically, socially and militarily. However, you do have that right, and we have the right to fight back to prevent you from imposing your socialist views here.

Workers are allowed to elect half of the board in large companies. This is the same type of control that stock-owners have in the US.
But stock owners pay for the right to vote. Why should somebody just hired off the street get a say in running the company that is equal to someone who has invested in the company?

I didn't say the workers own half the company, I said they control it, and they do control in the only way you can control a company, by having your chosen representatives on the board of directors.
In other words, the owners have less control over their property. The workers, whose stake in the company is limited to their hourly wage, has as much input as the owners, who built up the company from nothing and committed everything that they have to it. That strikes you as fair and equitable?


I'm sorry if you are mad, trying taking a few breaths, calm down and look at what is being posted. If you want me to be more specific, I will, just don't start shitting yourself so quickly. Workers in Germany have significant control over their companies because they can elect half of the controlling board. This gives them a sense of responsibility over the company because they have representative control over it. This is extremely different from how things are in America.
You're assuming facts not in evidence. We don't know that they have a sense of responsibility that comes from ownership. German culture is much more hierarchal and rule-driven than ours, and Germans have always followed orders more strictly than other western peoples, often with tragic results. You also haven't proven that this works better. Until the Democrats took over congress and then the presidency and began imposing German-style rules on our economy, the US enjoyed higher productivity, higher per capita wages, lower unemployment and greater economic growth than Germany. In fact, company, Boeing, was forbidden by its union (and the federal government) to open a plant in a non-union state, and is now facing layoffs. In Germany, workers routinely vote themselves more generous benefits which are not sustainable in the longterm (just ask the Greeks and Italians how that will end), shorter work hours and all manner of other perks, none of which benefit the productivity of their companies. Germans take longer vacations than we do, work shorter hours, but they also make less and their share of the global economy continues to slide. If you are willing to manage a slow decline into global irrelevance, then the German model has much to teach us. Otherwise, I'll take our more robust free market model.

You do realize that the US isn't the only country that people immigrate to right? Not to mention, brace yourself for this one, many Americans move to other countries.

Also, I just remembered, it doesn't even matter, none of that changes the facts I've given.
More people immigrate to America than to every other nation in the world combined. This is a function of our economic and political liberty, as well as our willingness to absorb legal immigrants and provide a path to citizenship that gives them legal and political equality. Aside from a few other Anglosphere countries, no other nation in the world does this.

AmPat
01-06-2012, 11:54 AM
apparently I should repeat this

Originally Posted by Wei Wu Wei View Post
The people I've known and loved all of my life have been working people in America, my home. Why would I want to leave? Wouldn't it be better to fight to make this nation a better place for the working people I love?
Not for us and not if"making it better" means contrary to the Constitution. We have a free Republic and Europe has Social DIMockracy. Cuba, China and North Korea have what you desire already. Delta's ready when you are.

noonwitch
01-06-2012, 12:41 PM
I don't speak for all americans here, but I like my job and enjoy working hard at it.


I will admit, though, that standing at the cash register at K-Mart was hard on my back and legs, and a chair would have been nice. All the other jobs I did there were not so hard because they involved moving around-re-stocking the merchandise, ticketing the items, and arranging displays were the other things I did there.

Adam Wood
01-06-2012, 12:51 PM
Workers are allowed to elect half of the board in large companies. This is the same type of control that stock-owners have in the US.No, that's simply not correct. Workers at very large companies, those who employ over 5000 hourly workers, can vote for less than half of the board. This represents roughly 2.3% of all German workers. Workers at medium-sized to large companies with between 500 and 5000 hourly workers may elect one third of the board. This represents about a quarter to a third of all German workers, varying a little bit over the last decade or so. In Germany, just as in the US, small businesses employ far more people than big businesses do.

So, at best, you've got a little over a third of German workers who have something to say about their company's board. The rest do not. What you are babbling about as if you knew something about it is the exception in Germany, not the rule.


So, once again, you don't know WTF you're talking about. You're just fantasizing your little socialist Utopia that doesn't exist.

Zafod
01-06-2012, 02:42 PM
No, that's simply not correct. Workers at very large companies, those who employ over 5000 hourly workers, can vote for less than half of the board. This represents roughly 2.3% of all German workers. Workers at medium-sized to large companies with between 500 and 5000 hourly workers may elect one third of the board. This represents about a quarter to a third of all German workers, varying a little bit over the last decade or so. In Germany, just as in the US, small businesses employ far more people than big businesses do.

So, at best, you've got a little over a third of German workers who have something to say about their company's board. The rest do not. What you are babbling about as if you knew something about it is the exception in Germany, not the rule.


So, once again, you don't know WTF you're talking about. You're just fantasizing your little socialist Utopia that doesn't exist.

http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20080310214950/uncyclopedia/images/3/3d/You_just_got_pwned.jpg

Lanie
01-06-2012, 11:37 PM
Yeah, let's just add this to our list of GREAT GERMAN IDEAS...

Concentration camps
Ethnic cleansing
Nerve gas
White supremacy


Hyperbole.

We could easily add the trail of tears and Japanese camps to American history to debate their work ethics. Problem is it doesn't make sense. Now, quit it.

Lanie
01-06-2012, 11:39 PM
Know why? This is not Germany... go figure...:rolleyes:

Well, why can't we learn from them? Is that somehow unAmerican?

Lanie
01-06-2012, 11:42 PM
No, that's simply not correct. Workers at very large companies, those who employ over 5000 hourly workers, can vote for less than half of the board. This represents roughly 2.3% of all German workers. Workers at medium-sized to large companies with between 500 and 5000 hourly workers may elect one third of the board. This represents about a quarter to a third of all German workers, varying a little bit over the last decade or so. In Germany, just as in the US, small businesses employ far more people than big businesses do.

So, at best, you've got a little over a third of German workers who have something to say about their company's board. The rest do not. What you are babbling about as if you knew something about it is the exception in Germany, not the rule.


So, once again, you don't know WTF you're talking about. You're just fantasizing your little socialist Utopia that doesn't exist.

Yeah, but I would think Germans still have a bigger say than we do, not that workers should be allowed to take a company away from somebody who built it from the ground up.

Rockntractor
01-06-2012, 11:47 PM
Well, why can't we like learn from them? Is that somehow like unAmerican? Like whatever
:rotfl::rotfl:

Zafod
01-07-2012, 01:37 AM
Leave it to lanie/Bridget the piglet to take the lead as the liberfucktard leftobot...

Zafod
01-07-2012, 01:38 AM
Yeah, but I would think Germans still have a bigger say than we do, not that workers should be allowed to take a company away from somebody who built it from the ground up.

They don't. You have no idea what you are talking about.

txradioguy
01-07-2012, 06:06 AM
Well, why can't we learn from them? Is that somehow unAmerican?

God you're stupid.

txradioguy
01-07-2012, 06:07 AM
Yeah, but I would think Germans still have a bigger say than we do, not that workers should be allowed to take a company away from somebody who built it from the ground up.

No...they don't. If anything...thanks to the EU they have less.

txradioguy
01-07-2012, 06:08 AM
Leave it to lanie/Bridget the piglet to take the lead as the liberfucktard leftobot...

I would suggest that if Bridget thinks it's zoo peachy keen over here she move here and work on the German economy for a year or so and see how it really is.

AmPat
01-07-2012, 11:14 AM
I would suggest that if Bridget thinks it's zoo peachy keen over here she move here and work on the German economy for a year or so and see how it really is.

She and the rest of the leftists would be loving every minute of it. The taxes are back breaking, a leftist utopia.

Adam Wood
01-07-2012, 12:06 PM
Yeah, but I would think Germans still have a bigger say than we do, not that workers should be allowed to take a company away from somebody who built it from the ground up.Only in the very large companies, and that is pretty arguable. Most really big companies in the US have plans that involve partial employee ownership in the company in one fashion or another already. So we're pretty much equal in that regard, except that instead of legislating how those employees have a stake in the company itself, we have the benefit of letting the market figure that out for itself. IMO, the best method of employee involvement in a company is a profit-sharing plan. What better way to incite employees to work efficiently is there than telling them that they make more money when the company does well?

Rockntractor
01-07-2012, 12:12 PM
I'm half German, quarter English and quarter Swede.
Half of me wants to work all the time, my right arm constantly wants to stop for tea and my right leg wants to chase woman.:confused:

Teetop
01-07-2012, 12:40 PM
What happened to Wee Weasely Wanker?

Oh, it got owned and off licking its wounds.....

:D

Odysseus
01-07-2012, 12:51 PM
Well, why can't we learn from them? Is that somehow unAmerican?
We should learn from everyone, but not every example is a good one. Germany's workers are less productive and more expensive than US workers. The lesson to take away is that we don't want German-style management in American businesses.

Yeah, but I would think Germans still have a bigger say than we do, not that workers should be allowed to take a company away from somebody who built it from the ground up.

But Wei wants workers to be able to take companies away from the owners. He's repeatedly demanded worker control of the means of production, as if that means suddenly sprang from the ground without planning, investment and risk on the part of the owners, long before the first worker showed up at the plant. He doesn't understand that wealth is created, not that it simply exists for the taking. When he talks about some mythical third way between free market capitalism and socialism, he's simply trying to find ways to impose socialism incrementally.

AmPat
01-07-2012, 01:18 PM
Only in the very large companies, and that is pretty arguable. Most really big companies in the US have plans that involve partial employee ownership in the company in one fashion or another already. So we're pretty much equal in that regard, except that instead of legislating how those employees have a stake in the company itself, we have the benefit of letting the market figure that out for itself. IMO, the best method of employee involvement in a company is a profit-sharing plan. What better way to incite employees to work efficiently is there than telling them that they make more money when the company does well?

I know of no law whereby the workers of any publicly traded company prohibits workers from buying stock in that company. Liberals tend to forget that. Workers want a share? Buy stock.:cool:

Adam Wood
01-07-2012, 01:24 PM
I know of no law whereby the workers of any publicly traded company prohibits workers from buying stock in that company. Liberals tend to forget that. Workers want a share? Buy stock.:cool:Oh, certainly there's no law against purchasing company stock (outside of insider-trading laws, which apparently don't apply to Congress :mad:). My point was that many/most large companies offer compensation deals that include a discounted purchase of company stock, among other tools to give employees "ownership" in the company. Ergo, Wee Wee's point is utterly moot.

AmPat
01-07-2012, 01:38 PM
Oh, certainly there's no law against purchasing company stock (outside of insider-trading laws, which apparently don't apply to Congress :mad:). My point was that many/most large companies offer compensation deals that include a discounted purchase of company stock, among other tools to give employees "ownership" in the company. Ergo, Wee Wee's point is utterly moot.
My post was in support of yours. I get tired of that stupid leftist crap about workers over management nonsense. If the workers want more say in the company, there are ways to do it.
*They can walk out the door that they walked in and find another employer willing to put up with their idiocy.
*They can buy stock and attend shareholder meetings.
*They can start their own company and listen to the nonsense of their employees if they so choose.

Apache
01-07-2012, 08:06 PM
Well, why can't we learn from them? Is that somehow unAmerican?

We have, that's why we don't use the German model for a lot of things...

DumbAss Tanker
01-08-2012, 12:30 PM
My experience with Germans is that they have an excellent work ethic and their unions won't stick up for them if they are dishonest lazy shitbags, two huge differences from the American unionized labor force.

A motivated and productive American worker will easily match and outperform a productive German, based on German work rules and entitlements alone (A list of holidays that make our banks and US Federal employees look oppressed, a summer vacation that lasts a month, and 'Health leave' to go take the air cure in the mountains or some other recuperative spa for a few weeks every so often). However, far too many American workers just don't have that work ethic thing going for them, and the unions reflect the attitudes of their membership.