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SarasotaRepub
01-11-2012, 10:44 PM
:rolleyes: Fucking Moron... (http://washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/capital-land/2012/01/man-charged-after-baby-found-mcpherson-square-tent/2085666)




By:Emily Babay (http://www.conservativeunderground.com/people/emily-babay) | 01/11/12 2:26 PM
Examiner Staff Writer |

A man is facing child cruelty charges after his 13-month-old daughter was found alone in a tent in the Occupy DC camp at McPherson Square.

Occupy members told authorities that a baby was alone in a tent at about 10 a.m. Wednesday, said Sgt. David Schlosser, a U.S. Park Police spokesman. Officers found the girl alone in the tent with no adults around. The baby had been alone for at least half an hour, Schlosser said.

A man returned to the park while police were investigating and said he was the baby's father, Schlosser said. The man was charged with attempted second-degree cruelty to children. Schlosser would not release the man's name, saying doing so could identify the child.


Excuse the kid, they're just trying to change th world...:rolleyes:

Novaheart
01-11-2012, 10:53 PM
:rolleyes: Fucking Moron... (http://washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/capital-land/2012/01/man-charged-after-baby-found-mcpherson-square-tent/2085666)




Excuse the kid, they're just trying to change th world...:rolleyes:

Pretty much at any campground you can find a baby napping in a tent.

MrsSmith
01-12-2012, 12:24 AM
Pretty much at any campground you can find a baby napping in a tent.

With a parent close enough to hear the child cry out, if not actually napping with him or her. :rolleyes: No responsible parent leaves an infant or toddler alone for longer than it takes to "tinkle."

Novaheart
01-12-2012, 12:42 AM
With a parent close enough to hear the child cry out, if not actually napping with him or her. :rolleyes: No responsible parent leaves an infant or toddler alone for longer than it takes to "tinkle."

If the Occupy folks who called the cops knew the baby had been alone for a half hour, then clearly there were adults within earshot.

I'm not playing devil's advocate, it's simply that parents do have some leeway in these matters, and it's not like the kid was locked in the trunk of the car while Mom was in the mall or at work.

marv
01-12-2012, 08:10 AM
Pretty much at any campground you can find a baby napping in a tent.

Campground? We're talking Occupy obamavilles here.

If the Occupy folks who called the cops knew the baby had been alone for a half hour, then clearly there were adults within earshot.

I'm not playing devil's advocate, it's simply that parents do have some leeway in these matters, and it's not like the kid was locked in the trunk of the car while Mom was in the mall or at work.

Suppose this had happened at a TEA party event, hmmm?

noonwitch
01-12-2012, 09:43 AM
Suppose this had happened at a TEA party event, hmmm?

It wouldn't have, if for no other reason than that the Tea Party events were usually one day events. All of the problems with the OWS protests stem from the fact that they've lasted longer than is safe-both for the physical and mental health of the participants.

Odysseus
01-12-2012, 11:16 AM
If the Occupy folks who called the cops knew the baby had been alone for a half hour, then clearly there were adults within earshot.

I'm not playing devil's advocate, it's simply that parents do have some leeway in these matters, and it's not like the kid was locked in the trunk of the car while Mom was in the mall or at work.
If they'd left her in the middle of a riot, there would have been adults within earshot, too. That's not the point. They didn't leave anyone in charge of watching the child, or who knew where the parents were and could call them back in case of an emergency. If they had, then the police wouldn't have been called, because somebody would have said, "it's okay, her mom had to go to the security tent to report an attempted sexual assault and her dad is at the drum circle, but they gave me a beaded wristband in return for watching the kid for them, and they'll be back before my meds wear off and the voices start telling me to offer her up to the gods." Unfortunately for them, they didn't do even that basic, due diligence, so now their baby girl is a ward of the state.

It wouldn't have, if for no other reason than that the Tea Party events were usually one day events. All of the problems with the OWS protests stem from the fact that they've lasted longer than is safe-both for the physical and mental health of the participants.
It wouldn't have, because the Tea Party events were run by and for adults who take their responsibilities seriously, not perpetual adolescents in search of their next handout.

Novaheart
01-12-2012, 11:40 AM
Suppose this had happened at a TEA party event, hmmm?

Sorry, I forgot that we never discuss the facts when we can speculate on some other scenario.

Odysseus
01-12-2012, 12:52 PM
Sorry, I forgot that we never discuss the facts when we can speculate on some other scenario.

The facts are that an infant was left unsupervised in an unheated tent in inclement weather in the middle of an event in which crimanal conduct has been repeatedly documented. What part of that do you think was a good idea?

Evil Anti DU Man
01-12-2012, 02:32 PM
Liberals always excuse bad behaviors from their own people because they believe they can do no wrongt because they believe they are better than everybody else just by virtue of being liberal.

Which, of course, is wrong.

NJCardFan
01-12-2012, 04:02 PM
The facts are that an infant was left unsupervised in an unheated tent in inclement weather in the middle of an event in which crimanal conduct has been repeatedly documented. What part of that do you think was a good idea?

You're pissing up a rope here. Nova continuously excuses bad behavior by liberals. Look at the thread about Muslims handing out leaflets saying that gays need to be executed. You'd think he'd be up in arms but quite the opposite. He's more concerned with the immigration issue in the UK. However, you can bet your bippy that if it had been the Mormons handing out these leaflets he'd be singing a different tune.

Novaheart
01-12-2012, 04:13 PM
You're pissing up a rope here. Nova continuously excuses bad behavior by liberals. Look at the thread about Muslims handing out leaflets saying that gays need to be executed.
QUOTE

in what manifestation of idiocy are muslim fanatics considered liberals?

marv
01-12-2012, 04:29 PM
You're pissing up a rope here. Nova continuously excuses bad behavior by liberals. Look at the thread about Muslims handing out leaflets saying that gays need to be executed.

QUOTE

in what manifestation of idiocy are muslim fanatics considered liberals?
When you lose, change the subject.......

Child unattended in a tent in the middle of a rat infested, crime ridden park in inclement weather. Something here you don't understand, Nova?

Hawkgirl
01-12-2012, 06:26 PM
If the Occupy folks who called the cops knew the baby had been alone for a half hour, then clearly there were adults within earshot.

I'm not playing devil's advocate, it's simply that parents do have some leeway in these matters, and it's not like the kid was locked in the trunk of the car while Mom was in the mall or at work.
Obviously the law disagrees with you as he is facing child cruelty charges.

JB
01-12-2012, 06:49 PM
Pretty much at any campground you can find a baby napping in a tent.Come on dude. You have to keep those comments to yourself. You lose credibility with a statement like that.

Please tell me you left off a smiley face and that you're really not comparing the two.

Novaheart
01-12-2012, 09:13 PM
When you lose, change the subject.......

Child unattended in a tent in the middle of a rat infested, crime ridden park in inclement weather. Something here you don't understand, Nova?

LOL! You just make it up as you go along, don't you?

http://www.princeofpetworth.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/5494911431_5077637be4.jpg

Novaheart
01-12-2012, 09:17 PM
Come on dude. You have to keep those comments to yourself. You lose credibility with a statement like that.

Please tell me you left off a smiley face and that you're really not comparing the two.

It's not about my personal opinion on child supervision. I myself freaked out when my 12 year old niece momentarily disappeared from my view in DuPont Circle on a beautiful day when Yoga freaks, chess players, and yuppie joggers were sharing the park with us.

It's about the fact that the article makes no mention of the child being in danger, being harmed, or being in distress.

We can't complain about police and DCF getting above themselves, except when it suits us politically.

marv
01-12-2012, 10:08 PM
LOL! You just make it up as you go along, don't you?

http://www.princeofpetworth.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/5494911431_5077637be4.jpg

Looks like the taxpayers did a good job of cleaning up and re-sodding.......but I think this was the subject of the OP....



http://www.caringforourchildrenfoundation.org/wp-content/plugins/rss-poster/cache/419e8_article-2085670-0F651C6F00000578-526_468x312.jpg

Odysseus
01-13-2012, 02:53 AM
LOL! You just make it up as you go along, don't you?

http://www.princeofpetworth.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/5494911431_5077637be4.jpg
Actually, he got it right. Your photo of the park sans protesters is pretty funny, but the facts are the facts. As the Daily Mail reported:


A man has been charged with child cruelty after a 13-month-old girl was found alone in a tent at an Occupy protest camp in Washington, DC.
Police officers were informed of the baby's plight after protesters at the McPherson Square camp heard her crying at 10am yesterday.
Demonstrator Mark Scott found the girl alone in a tent and, with the help of other Occupy DC protesters, wrapped her up in a blanket and called police.

This 13-month-old child was discovered alone on Wednesday in one of the Occupy DC tents
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/01/12/article-2085670-0F6FD68300000578-739_468x411.jpg

He said: 'I unzipped the tent and she was in there bawling.'
A man claiming to be the baby's father approached police half an hour later, according to U.S. Park Police spokesman Sgt David Schlosser.
The man was arrested and charged with attempted second degree cruelty to children.

The baby girl is now in the custody of the local Child and Family Services Agency.
Protesters at the camp said the man and baby were not part of the Occupy community but had been around the McPherson Square encampment for a few weeks.
A protest - dubbed Occupy Congress - is due to take place on Capitol Hill next Tuesday.

The girl, found crying and alone, is now in the custody of Child Protective Services
It is expected to draw thousands of people and bring renewed attention to the movement in Washington and to their overall opposition to corporate greed and income inequality.
Mario Lozada, a protester from Philadelphia who plans to be in Washington next week for the protest, said: 'We can't just protest on Wall Street. We must also protest Congress directly if we want to have real change.'
'I unzipped the tent and she was in there bawling'
Though the DC protesters have provoked the ire of a Republican congressman, they have been tolerated - with some growing signs of exasperation - by a mayor who forged his political identity as an activist and by a National Park Service that says it is determined to protect First Amendment rights.

A man claiming to be the girl's father was arrested and charged with attempted second degree cruelty to children
Though they've dwindled considerably in numbers, the demonstrators, and a few homeless people, have remained despite occasionally freezing temperatures, the holidays and, more recently, rat infestations and health department inspections.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2085670/Occupy-DC-protester-charged-child-cruelty-crying-baby-abandoned-tent.html#ixzz1jJoR6K4h

It's not about my personal opinion on child supervision. I myself freaked out when my 12 year old niece momentarily disappeared from my view in DuPont Circle on a beautiful day when Yoga freaks, chess players, and yuppie joggers were sharing the park with us.

It's about the fact that the article makes no mention of the child being in danger, being harmed, or being in distress.

We can't complain about police and DCF getting above themselves, except when it suits us politically.

The Daily Mail article states that the child was abandoned. What part of that do you not understand?

NJCardFan
01-13-2012, 11:56 AM
The Daily Mail article states that the child was abandoned. What part of that do you not understand?

Again, like a good little soldier when it's leftists involved, they get passes from Nova.

Hawkgirl
01-13-2012, 12:06 PM
Again, like a good little soldier when it's leftists involved, they get passes from Nova.

Yes, and it only makes him look like a typical retard on this board. He defends a punk who left his baby girl by herself surrounded by strangers and other non desirables. What else would you expect for him?

Novaheart
01-13-2012, 12:51 PM
The Daily Mail article states that the child was abandoned. What part of that do you not understand?

The OP wasn't referencing a Daily Mail article, it was a short article from the Washington Examiner. Am I not rightfully suspicious when color is added down the road as in the Daily Mail article?

I remain reluctant to take children away from their parents, even if the child's parent is a stupid hippie throwback. I am also on record as being reluctant to take away the children of neo-nazis and other right wingers as you can verify in the thread about the idiots who named their kid Adolf Hitler. But don't let that stop your unrelenting hypocrisy.

Novaheart
01-13-2012, 12:53 PM
Again, like a good little soldier when it's leftists involved, they get passes from Nova.

If you will recall, I also expressed reluctance for the state to take the children of your ideological comrades in another thread.

NJCardFan
01-13-2012, 01:31 PM
If you will recall, I also expressed reluctance for the state to take the children of your ideological comrades in another thread.

So to you there is no instance where a child should be taken. Nice.

noonwitch
01-13-2012, 02:03 PM
Actually, he got it right. Your photo of the park sans protesters is pretty funny, but the facts are the facts. As the Daily Mail reported:


A man has been charged with child cruelty after a 13-month-old girl was found alone in a tent at an Occupy protest camp in Washington, DC.
Police officers were informed of the baby's plight after protesters at the McPherson Square camp heard her crying at 10am yesterday.
Demonstrator Mark Scott found the girl alone in a tent and, with the help of other Occupy DC protesters, wrapped her up in a blanket and called police.

This 13-month-old child was discovered alone on Wednesday in one of the Occupy DC tents
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/01/12/article-2085670-0F6FD68300000578-739_468x411.jpg

He said: 'I unzipped the tent and she was in there bawling.'
A man claiming to be the baby's father approached police half an hour later, according to U.S. Park Police spokesman Sgt David Schlosser.
The man was arrested and charged with attempted second degree cruelty to children.

The baby girl is now in the custody of the local Child and Family Services Agency.
Protesters at the camp said the man and baby were not part of the Occupy community but had been around the McPherson Square encampment for a few weeks.
A protest - dubbed Occupy Congress - is due to take place on Capitol Hill next Tuesday.

The girl, found crying and alone, is now in the custody of Child Protective Services
It is expected to draw thousands of people and bring renewed attention to the movement in Washington and to their overall opposition to corporate greed and income inequality.
Mario Lozada, a protester from Philadelphia who plans to be in Washington next week for the protest, said: 'We can't just protest on Wall Street. We must also protest Congress directly if we want to have real change.'
'I unzipped the tent and she was in there bawling'
Though the DC protesters have provoked the ire of a Republican congressman, they have been tolerated - with some growing signs of exasperation - by a mayor who forged his political identity as an activist and by a National Park Service that says it is determined to protect First Amendment rights.

A man claiming to be the girl's father was arrested and charged with attempted second degree cruelty to children
Though they've dwindled considerably in numbers, the demonstrators, and a few homeless people, have remained despite occasionally freezing temperatures, the holidays and, more recently, rat infestations and health department inspections.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2085670/Occupy-DC-protester-charged-child-cruelty-crying-baby-abandoned-tent.html#ixzz1jJoR6K4h


The Daily Mail article states that the child was abandoned. What part of that do you not understand?


That child is beautiful. If her dad is too busy protesting to take care of her, there is a foster family out there who will be more than willing to love her and raise her right, if there aren't any relatives available to do so.

Too bad it's not in New Jersey, since we have a foster parent here from that state. She'd be happy in his house.

Odysseus
01-13-2012, 05:41 PM
The OP wasn't referencing a Daily Mail article, it was a short article from the Washington Examiner. Am I not rightfully suspicious when color is added down the road as in the Daily Mail article?

The original article gave the information that was available at the time. The Daily Mail article went into greater depth, and included interviews with the person who called the cops. Nothing in the subsequent article contradicts the information in the first, which is that the father was arrested for attempted cruelty to a child. If you have a suspicion based on inconsistencies in the story, by all means express them, but this isn't the case. You presented a photo of the park without protesters, and pretended that it wasn't a danger. That's blatantly dishonest.

I remain reluctant to take children away from their parents, even if the child's parent is a stupid hippie throwback. I am also on record as being reluctant to take away the children of neo-nazis and other right wingers as you can verify in the thread about the idiots who named their kid Adolf Hitler. But don't let that stop your unrelenting hypocrisy.

There's no hypocrisy here. I'm also reluctant to take children away from parents, but in this case, you have an individual who had abandoned a child. She could have been abducted, or died from exposure (the tent wasn't heated, and it was genuinely cold that day), or just wandered off, and he'd never have known. Leaving a toddler alone under those circumstance is incredibly negligent, and we still haven't seen or heard anything about the mother. This was the right call, not because her parents were stupid hippie throwbacks, but because they were negligent stupid hippie throwbacks whose callous disregard for the safety of their daughter put her in danger.

Hawkgirl
01-13-2012, 06:35 PM
I remain reluctant to take children away from their parents, even if the child's parent is a stupid hippie throwback. I am also on record as being reluctant to take away the children of neo-nazis and other right wingers as you can verify in the thread about the idiots who named their kid Adolf Hitler. But don't let that stop your unrelenting hypocrisy.

There is no hypocracy numbnuts. If someone from my political leaning did the same thing to their child, I would also be for arresting the parent. It has nothing to do with politics. That is the problem with you liberal freaks....you don't use common sense.

NJCardFan
01-14-2012, 12:14 AM
I remain reluctant to take children away from their parents, even if the child's parent is a stupid hippie throwback. I am also on record as being reluctant to take away the children of neo-nazis and other right wingers as you can verify in the thread about the idiots who named their kid Adolf Hitler. But don't let that stop your unrelenting hypocrisy.
You're comparing apples to oranges here. The OP article states that the child was left alone in a tent in a park in cold weather. The latter couple allegedly had their children pulled due to domestic violence issues so it would help to get your facts straight before sounding off.

Tipsycatlover
01-14-2012, 05:30 PM
The best outcome would have been for someone anyone, an unknown person, to just take the child as happens many times. Do with the chlild whatever they wish, and let daddy blame the 1%.

Novaheart
01-14-2012, 06:06 PM
You're comparing apples to oranges here. The OP article states that the child was left alone in a tent in a park in cold weather. The latter couple allegedly had their children pulled due to domestic violence issues so it would help to get your facts straight before sounding off.

I was aware of the particulars in both cases, and I consider both cases to be political. It's not a disagreement on the facts between us, or one of who is smarter, I simply disagree with what was done in this case. Parents make poor choices all the time. Trust me that you don't want to live by my mother's rules for men and children. I regard the arrest of the parent and taking custody of the child to be reserved for the inarguably neglectful, endangering, or abusive parent. That simply was not the case here. This man has been treated as if he left the kid in the trunk while he went to buy crack. Now I may have missed that part in whatever article you are working from now, and God forbid I should question a newspaper, but so far I haven't seen anything that rises to child abuse. Even the police only charged with "attempted child abuse" whatever that is. Since I haven't read anything to suggest that he was attempting to abuse the child, I'm guessing that he will have his charges dropped, and still have to go through a mess of BS to get his kid back.

MrsSmith
01-14-2012, 06:49 PM
I was aware of the particulars in both cases, and I consider both cases to be political. It's not a disagreement on the facts between us, or one of who is smarter, I simply disagree with what was done in this case. Parents make poor choices all the time. Trust me that you don't want to live by my mother's rules for men and children. I regard the arrest of the parent and taking custody of the child to be reserved for the inarguably neglectful, endangering, or abusive parent. That simply was not the case here. This man has been treated as if he left the kid in the trunk while he went to buy crack. Now I may have missed that part in whatever article you are working from now, and God forbid I should question a newspaper, but so far I haven't seen anything that rises to child abuse. Even the police only charged with "attempted child abuse" whatever that is. Since I haven't read anything to suggest that he was attempting to abuse the child, I'm guessing that he will have his charges dropped, and still have to go through a mess of BS to get his kid back.

No, he didn't lock the kid in a trunk while he bought crack, he locked her in a tent with no adult supervision and left for some other reason...in an area where multiple violent crimes had taken place...in an area where rats could have literally eaten her fingers. You are obviously not a parent, have no idea what can happen to small children left alone, and are only arguing because you don't know enough to know how incredibly stupid you sound. You have enough sense to freak out when your 12 year old niece was out of sight, but not enough sense to see all the horrible things that could have happened to a 13 MONTH old child left all alone?? What do you keep between your ears? Bricks??

txradioguy
01-15-2012, 10:30 AM
It has nothing to do with politics. That is the problem with you liberal freaks....you don't use common sense.

It's not that they don't use common sense...it's just that Liberals...like Communists view everything no matter what it is through a political spectrum.

EVERYTHING in life is political in some way to them.

Odysseus
01-15-2012, 11:56 AM
I was aware of the particulars in both cases, and I consider both cases to be political. It's not a disagreement on the facts between us, or one of who is smarter, I simply disagree with what was done in this case. Parents make poor choices all the time. Trust me that you don't want to live by my mother's rules for men and children.
Yeah, we've seen the result.
[QUOTE=Novaheart;475075]I regard the arrest of the parent and taking custody of the child to be reserved for the inarguably neglectful, endangering, or abusive parent. That simply was not the case here. This man has been treated as if he left the kid in the trunk while he went to buy crack. Now I may have missed that part in whatever article you are working from now, and God forbid I should question a newspaper, but so far I haven't seen anything that rises to child abuse. Even the police only charged with "attempted child abuse" whatever that is. Since I haven't read anything to suggest that he was attempting to abuse the child, I'm guessing that he will have his charges dropped, and still have to go through a mess of BS to get his kid back.
He was charged with "attempted child cruelty", which encompasses neglect. The "attempted" caveat applies because the child was taken in before anything happened to her. Had she been hurt or killed, then it would have been child cruelty without the attempted qualifier.

No, he didn't lock the kid in a trunk while he bought crack, he locked her in a tent with no adult supervision and left for some other reason...in an area where multiple violent crimes had taken place...in an area where rats could have literally eaten her fingers. You are obviously not a parent, have no idea what can happen to small children left alone, and are only arguing because you don't know enough to know how incredibly stupid you sound. You have enough sense to freak out when your 12 year old niece was out of sight, but not enough sense to see all the horrible things that could have happened to a 13 MONTH old child left all alone?? What do you keep between your ears? Bricks??

Bricks would be better than what he does have. Initially, the reports said that this was an infant. Now that we know it was a toddler, it's actually more dangerous. An infant can't wander off, although she could have rolled off of whatever they left her on. The father was lucky that she didn't end up falling into an open fire or playing with rusty needles near the heroin co-op.

Novaheart
01-15-2012, 12:25 PM
[
Yeah, we've seen the result.

.

Oh look, Ody is doing his imitation of Rock.

NJCardFan
01-15-2012, 01:30 PM
Oh look, Ody is doing his imitation of Rock.
In typical liberal fashion, knowing the argument is lost, you deflect the argument to something else. Ole!

Odysseus
01-15-2012, 04:18 PM
Oh look, Ody is doing his imitation of Rock.

Oh, look! Novaheart is wrong, but won't address the substance of the discussion. Again.

Novaheart
01-15-2012, 05:44 PM
Novaheart is wrong.

On any given warm day you can usually find young people swimming at the beach. Occasionally one washes up dead, but to date I have not heard about the parent being prosecuted for allowing a 12 year old to go swimming in Boca Ciega Bay unsupervised. If my mother ran the world, the parents of such a child would be horsewhipped. I grew up in a swamp, and we were not allowed to swim in the river or the ponds or the bay or the ocean unsupervised. Even when an older child was the supervision, that older child had to sit on the beach and watch the younger children.

My uncle earned my mother's wrath one time for letting me play on the boat ramp. I slipped and fell into the river on an autumn day. It wasn't life threatening, but my mother never allowed my uncle to be in charge of me again.

That's the extreme I was pointing out to you. Different people exercise different levels of caution with their children. I freaked out because a 12 year old disappeared from sight in Washington DC's Dupont Circle at 5 PM on a sunny summer day. Was I overreacting? Most people would say that I was, and she certainly thought that I did. She was not in imminent danger, but I have watch too many TV dramas where young girls disappear in a flash. If she had disappeared, I don't think anyone would have brought charges against me, I didn't do anything wrong.

Do you have any notion of how quick some people are to call DCF or the police? There are people who think letting a toddler play with a Pit Bull or a Rotty is tantamount to dangling the child off a freeway overpass.

This man left his child in a tent in what he considered safe surroundings. She was not harmed. All the could-have-happened-this-ways in the world don't change the particulars. He left his daughter in a tent on a cold day in the rain. There are aboriginal people around the world who live in tents or huts in winter and summer.

Until some other fact surfaces, some damning fact about the condition of the child or of the father, then I'll stick with my assessment that it was a poor choice by our standards but doesn't rise to the level of neglect or abuse.

Odysseus
01-15-2012, 06:08 PM
On any given warm day you can usually find young people swimming at the beach. Occasionally one washes up dead, but to date I have not heard about the parent being prosecuted for allowing a 12 year old to go swimming in Boca Ciega Bay unsupervised. If my mother ran the world, the parents of such a child would be horsewhipped. I grew up in a swamp, and we were not allowed to swim in the river or the ponds or the bay or the ocean unsupervised. Even when an older child was the supervision, that older child had to sit on the beach and watch the younger children.

My uncle earned my mother's wrath one time for letting me play on the boat ramp. I slipped and fell into the river on an autumn day. It wasn't life threatening, but my mother never allowed my uncle to be in charge of me again.

That's the extreme I was pointing out to you. Different people exercise different levels of caution with their children. I freaked out because a 12 year old disappeared from sight in Washington DC's Dupont Circle at 5 PM on a sunny summer day. Was I overreacting? Most people would say that I was, and she certainly thought that I did. She was not in imminent danger, but I have watch too many TV dramas where young girls disappear in a flash. If she had disappeared, I don't think anyone would have brought charges against me, I didn't do anything wrong.

Do you have any notion of how quick some people are to call DCF or the police? There are people who think letting a toddler play with a Pit Bull or a Rotty is tantamount to dangling the child off a freeway overpass.

This man left his child in a tent in what he considered safe surroundings. She was not harmed. All the could-have-happened-this-ways in the world don't change the particulars. He left his daughter in a tent on a cold day in the rain. There are aboriginal people around the world who live in tents or huts in winter and summer.

Until some other fact surfaces, some damning fact about the condition of the child or of the father, then I'll stick with my assessment that it was a poor choice by our standards but doesn't rise to the level of neglect or abuse.

Aside from providing insights into your abominable upbringing, that really doesn't address the facts of this case. This isn't a twelve year old swimming in a river unsupervised, it's a toddler that was left unsupervised in a tent city full of vagrants, lunatics and criminals, not to mention that the toddler was in an unheated tent in inclement weather. The legal definition of neglect and abuse is, at the federal level:


Any recent act or failure to act on the part of a parent or caretaker which results in death, serious physical or emotional harm, sexual abuse or exploitation; or
An act or failure to act which presents an imminent risk of serious harm.


Leaving a toddler alone under those circumstances more than satisfies the second condition.

Novaheart
01-15-2012, 07:51 PM
Aside from providing insights into your abominable upbringing, n't .

From the likes of you... Lol

Odysseus
01-15-2012, 11:42 PM
From the likes of you... Lol

I suppose that we should be impressed that you aren't simply writing "I know you are, but what am I?"

NJCardFan
01-16-2012, 12:04 AM
This isn't a twelve year old swimming in a river unsupervised, it's a toddler that was left unsupervised in a tent city full of vagrants, lunatics and criminals, not to mention that the toddler was in an unheated tent in inclement weather. The legal definition of neglect and abuse is, at the federal level:


Considering that Nova believes that there is little difference between adults and children(biologically :rolleyes:) it's small wonder he doesn't understand how leaving this child in a tent all alone is wrong and how there is a vast difference between a 12 year old and a 13 month old.

RobJohnson
01-16-2012, 01:05 AM
Pretty much at any campground you can find a baby napping in a tent.

So that makes it right?

You really are a fucking dumbass.

Novaheart
01-16-2012, 01:05 AM
Considering that Nova believes that there is little difference between adults and children(biologically :rolleyes:) it's small wonder he doesn't understand how leaving this child in a tent all alone is wrong and how there is a vast difference between a 12 year old and a 13 month old.

How ugly would you like this discussion to get?

RobJohnson
01-16-2012, 01:09 AM
You can't even leave a baby in a car alone without getting arrested...but since it was an OWS tent, it must be ok?

:popcorn:

Rockntractor
01-16-2012, 01:12 AM
If you all want to fight it out take it to the dome or I can move this thread to the dome, I'm not singling anyone out here.

RobJohnson
01-16-2012, 01:19 AM
If you all want to fight it out take it to the dome or I can move this thread to the dome, I'm not singling anyone out here.

I think Nova's mommy left him home alone again...see what happens????? :D

Odysseus
01-16-2012, 12:38 PM
How ugly would you like this discussion to get?
Threats? Really?

You can't even leave a baby in a car alone without getting arrested...but since it was an OWS tent, it must be ok?

:popcorn:
That was the next point that I was going to make. Leaving a 13-month-old in a car for a half hour in a parking lot would be considered abuse. Leaving a dog would be considered animal cruelty.

I think Nova's mommy left him home alone again...see what happens????? :D

No, I think that she didn't leave him alone enough.

RobJohnson
01-16-2012, 10:32 PM
No, I think that she didn't leave him alone enough.



:rotfl:

http://www.babble.com/CS/blogs/strollerderby/2008/08/16-22/home%20alone.jpg

Hawkgirl
01-16-2012, 11:14 PM
How ugly would you like this discussion to get?


A window into his psyche!

Tipsycatlover
01-17-2012, 10:45 AM
If this wasn't a protester, just a guy who wanted to go to the store, or drop into a bar for a quick brewski and left the child in the car, would there be any question, whatsoever about his prosecution. He should get a pass because he's a liberal protester and therefore his judgment can't be questioned.

Bailey
01-17-2012, 11:04 AM
On any given warm day you can usually find young people swimming at the beach. Occasionally one washes up dead, but to date I have not heard about the parent being prosecuted for allowing a 12 year old to go swimming in Boca Ciega Bay unsupervised. If my mother ran the world, the parents of such a child would be horsewhipped. I grew up in a swamp, and we were not allowed to swim in the river or the ponds or the bay or the ocean unsupervised. Even when an older child was the supervision, that older child had to sit on the beach and watch the younger children.

My uncle earned my mother's wrath one time for letting me play on the boat ramp. I slipped and fell into the river on an autumn day. It wasn't life threatening, but my mother never allowed my uncle to be in charge of me again.

That's the extreme I was pointing out to you. Different people exercise different levels of caution with their children. I freaked out because a 12 year old disappeared from sight in Washington DC's Dupont Circle at 5 PM on a sunny summer day. Was I overreacting? Most people would say that I was, and she certainly thought that I did. She was not in imminent danger, but I have watch too many TV dramas where young girls disappear in a flash. If she had disappeared, I don't think anyone would have brought charges against me, I didn't do anything wrong.

Do you have any notion of how quick some people are to call DCF or the police? There are people who think letting a toddler play with a Pit Bull or a Rotty is tantamount to dangling the child off a freeway overpass.

This man left his child in a tent in what he considered safe surroundings. She was not harmed. All the could-have-happened-this-ways in the world don't change the particulars. He left his daughter in a tent on a cold day in the rain. There are aboriginal people around the world who live in tents or huts in winter and summer.

Until some other fact surfaces, some damning fact about the condition of the child or of the father, then I'll stick with my assessment that it was a poor choice by our standards but doesn't rise to the level of neglect or abuse.

Now I can see why you turned gay, an over barring mother.

Odysseus
01-17-2012, 11:04 AM
If this wasn't a protester, just a guy who wanted to go to the store, or drop into a bar for a quick brewski and left the child in the car, would there be any question, whatsoever about his prosecution. He should get a pass because he's a liberal protester and therefore his judgment can't be questioned.

Exactly. He's changing the world, so he can't be bothered with changing diapers.

Novaheart
01-17-2012, 11:31 AM
Leaving a 13-month-old in a car for a half hour in a parking lot would be considered abuse. Leaving a dog would be considered animal cruelty.

He didn't leave a 13 month old in a car in a parking lot for a half hour.

marv
01-17-2012, 01:10 PM
He didn't leave a 13 month old in a car in a parking lot for a half hour.

No, just a 13 month old alone in a freezing filthy tent amidst druggies and other miscreants in the winter for half an hour while he shuffled off to get some crack.

Nova, put the shovel down. Don't you think you've dug deep enough?

Novaheart
01-17-2012, 01:24 PM
No, just a 13 month old alone in a freezing filthy tent amidst druggies and other miscreants in the winter for half an hour while he shuffled off to get some crack.

Nova, put the shovel down. Don't you think you've dug deep enough?

Stop piling shit on this story and I won't need a shovel. Where did the article say that the tent was filthy, that there were druggies or miscreants or that Dad had gone to get crack? Seriously, your imagination is running away with you.

Tipsycatlover
01-17-2012, 01:34 PM
He's quite lucky that the child wasn't taken by someone else. Too bad. It might have brought a decent price on the street.

Tipsycatlover
01-17-2012, 01:36 PM
He didn't leave a 13 month old in a car in a parking lot for a half hour.

He left a 13 month old child ALONE. That you think leaving a child alone at a protest site known for some deplorable conditions and people is different tha a parking lot is your failing.

Bailey
01-17-2012, 01:40 PM
He left a 13 month old child ALONE. That you think leaving a child alone at a protest site known for some deplorable conditions and people is different tha a parking lot is your failing.

You are replying to someone that thinks teenagers and adults are the same in a sexual sense.

Odysseus
01-17-2012, 04:13 PM
He didn't leave a 13 month old in a car in a parking lot for a half hour.

No, he left her in a tent. At least the car would have had door locks and a car seat that she couldn't get out of by herself. The tent didn't. The child was left unattended in a place where she could have been abducted, or wandered off, and was clearly frightened or she wouldn't have been crying for half an hour. She was also left exposed to the elements, as the tent wasn't heated, and as the article stated: "Demonstrator Mark Scott found the girl alone in a tent and, with the help of other Occupy DC protesters, wrapped her up in a blanket and called police.". And let's remember that the people there only called the police after she'd been crying for a half-hour. We don't know how long she was there before she started crying; it could have been a few minutes or the entire previous night.

As for the condition of the camp and the risk of assault or other crime, I direct you to just about any article on the DC camp, which covered the rat infestations, suppression of crime reporting and disease outbreaks.

You complain about how we're piling onto the story, but the story is what it is, and the more facts come out, the more the obvious negligence and indifference of the parents becomes.

BTW, that's another thing that I wonder about. We keep referring to parents, but the article only mentioned a father. Where's the mother? Why hasn't she come forward and screamed bloodly murder about her baby being taken away?

NJCardFan
01-17-2012, 04:44 PM
He didn't leave a 13 month old in a car in a parking lot for a half hour.

Seriously guy? You are unbelievable. No, scratch that, you are definitely believable. How you cannot see that leaving a toddler unattended ANYWHERE is neglect is beyond me but again, it's one of your leftist brethren so this is why you are arguing this so strongly. You're an idiot through and through.

noonwitch
01-17-2012, 05:01 PM
BTW, that's another thing that I wonder about. We keep referring to parents, but the article only mentioned a father. Where's the mother? Why hasn't she come forward and screamed bloodly murder about her baby being taken away?

I don't know. Maybe mom isn't a publicity hound and isn't involved with the protests, or this is a case of parental kidnapping and when CPS placed the child, it was just a matter of returning her to the custodial parent? There are a lot of possibilities, but at the heart of them is probably the mother's desire for privacy.

Rockntractor
01-17-2012, 05:06 PM
There are a lot of possibilities, but at the heart of them is probably the mother's desire for privacy.
Did you somehow in some half hazard way connect this to Roe vs Wade!:eek::smilie_wall::OhNoes:

Odysseus
01-17-2012, 05:07 PM
I don't know. Maybe mom isn't a publicity hound and isn't involved with the protests, or this is a case of parental kidnapping and when CPS placed the child, it was just a matter of returning her to the custodial parent? There are a lot of possibilities, but at the heart of them is probably the mother's desire for privacy.

I don't know about that. If she'd come forward to try to get her child back, there'd be some reporting on it, especially if she had to fight the authorities for custody. There are too many heartstrings that the media could play for them not to report it. And no matter how much she valued her privacy, there'd be someone at CPS who'd call it in to the news. She may not have come forward out of fear of prosecution, but if it were a parental kidnapping, then she'd be off the hook. I could be wrong, but I suspect that she's as much at fault as the father.

noonwitch
01-17-2012, 05:35 PM
I don't know about that. If she'd come forward to try to get her child back, there'd be some reporting on it, especially if she had to fight the authorities for custody. There are too many heartstrings that the media could play for them not to report it. And no matter how much she valued her privacy, there'd be someone at CPS who'd call it in to the news. She may not have come forward out of fear of prosecution, but if it were a parental kidnapping, then she'd be off the hook. I could be wrong, but I suspect that she's as much at fault as the father.

Confidentiality is a cornerstone of CPS/CFC. If the info gets out, it comes from the police or the courts, for the most part. A worker faces serious reprisals, including firing and criminal charges, for violating that policy. The media covers the case as long as someone is talking to them about it. The court won't talk to them (although all documents are public record), and the police are only involved in the criminal investigation and possibly the actual removal.

marv
01-17-2012, 09:00 PM
It could be that the mother didn't want the child. Worse things have happened.



Has it been proven that the man actually is the father? Just curious.

Novaheart
01-17-2012, 10:53 PM
http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/man-accused-of-leaving-13-month-old-baby-in-occupy-dc-tent-ordered-to-stay-away-from-child/2012/01/13/gIQAnshUvP_story.html


By Associated Press, Published: January 13

WASHINGTON — A man arrested after police found a 13-month-old baby alone in a McPherson Square tent has been released on personal recognizance but ordered to stay away from the child.
......................
...............
The child was turned over to the D.C. Child and Family Services Agency but is now with relatives.

Novaheart
01-17-2012, 11:12 PM
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/45977590/ns/local_news-washington_dc/t/man-denies-abandoning-child-tent-city/#.TxY1HRw0i6Y

Mack is not part of the Occupy DC movement that has set up camp at McPherson Square.
The girl was taken in to the custody of Child Protective Services and then returned to her family, her mother told Gonzalez.
Mack was not the child's father, as originally reported, but a father figure, her mother told Gonzalez. Mack would take care of the child off and on. Her mother recently found it odd that the girl would come back from Mack sick or smelling like mildew. Then on Wednesday, she got the call about the child found in McPherson Square.

Novaheart
01-17-2012, 11:12 PM
It could be that the mother didn't want the child. Worse things have happened.



Has it been proven that the man actually is the father? Just curious.



See below.

Novaheart
01-17-2012, 11:13 PM
I don't know about that. If she'd come forward to try to get her child back, there'd be some reporting on it, especially if she had to fight the authorities for custody. There are too many heartstrings that the media could play for them not to report it. And no matter how much she valued her privacy, there'd be someone at CPS who'd call it in to the news. She may not have come forward out of fear of prosecution, but if it were a parental kidnapping, then she'd be off the hook. I could be wrong, but I suspect that she's as much at fault as the father.

See below.

NJCardFan
01-17-2012, 11:28 PM
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/45977590/ns/local_news-washington_dc/t/man-denies-abandoning-child-tent-city/#.TxY1HRw0i6Y

Mack is not part of the Occupy DC movement that has set up camp at McPherson Square.
The girl was taken in to the custody of Child Protective Services and then returned to her family, her mother told Gonzalez.
Mack was not the child's father, as originally reported, but a father figure, her mother told Gonzalez. Mack would take care of the child off and on. Her mother recently found it odd that the girl would come back from Mack sick or smelling like mildew. Then on Wednesday, she got the call about the child found in McPherson Square.

And you still think this is OK? UFB

Novaheart
01-18-2012, 12:58 AM
And you still think this is OK? UFB

I never said any of it was OK. KMA

Rockntractor
01-18-2012, 01:09 AM
I never said any of it was OK. KMA

You steered your ship to close to the rocks, admit it.:rolleyes:

Novaheart
01-18-2012, 01:23 AM
You steered your ship to close to the rocks, admit it.:rolleyes:

No, actually I didn't. I discussed whether what the man did rose to the level of child abuse or neglect.

marv
01-18-2012, 05:32 AM
No, actually I didn't. I discussed whether what the man did rose to the level of child abuse or neglect.

...and what have you concluded about this whole episode?

Odysseus
01-18-2012, 11:23 AM
No, actually I didn't. I discussed whether what the man did rose to the level of child abuse or neglect.


See below.
The full article, then a bit more discussion:

Man Denies Abandoning Child at Tent City

Samuel Mack, 39, pleaded not guilty Thursday to second-degree attempted cruelty to children, News4’s Erika Gonzalez reported.

The 13-month-old girl was found alone wearing only a onesie in a tent as rail fell and temperatures were in the 40s about 10 a.m. Wednesday. Mack returned about 40 minutes after police took the child into custody, Park Police said. The girl was alone about 30 minutes before being discovered.

Police did not find anyone with the name Mack gave as the person he left the child with at McPherson Square, Gonzalez reported. Mack also told authorities he’d left the child while he went to get her some food, but when he returned, he didn’t have any.

The child was evaluated at the park and appeared to be in stable condition.

Mack was released on personal recognizance Thursday but ordered to stay away from the girl, other minors, McPherson Square and 15th, I and K streets in the area. If he wants to retrieve personal property from the area, he must be escorted by police, Gonzalez reported.

Mack is not part of the Occupy DC movement that has set up camp at McPherson Square.

The girl was taken in to the custody of Child Protective Services and then returned to her family, her mother told Gonzalez.

Mack was not the child's father, as originally reported, but a father figure, her mother told Gonzalez. Mack would take care of the child off and on. Her mother recently found it odd that the girl would come back from Mack sick or smelling like mildew. Then on Wednesday, she got the call about the child found in McPherson Square.

Follow NBC Washington to get the latest news, events and entertainment anytime, anywhere: on air, online, and on Facebook // Twitter.

Now, this being the MSNBC site, we're going to have to dig a bit to work at the bolded parts. They state that he was not part of the Occupy DC camp, but how do they know this? The don't issue badges, do they? He was camped out in the park with the rest of the occupyers, but he's the only one camping there who has nothing to do with the protests? Riiiiiiiiiiight.

Second, the statement that he is a "father figure" is rather interesting. To me, that implies that he's the mom's boyfriend or a glorified baby sitter. The things that she noticed, that he daughter came back sick or smelling of mildew, tells me that she didn't want to think about the implications of that as long as she had someone taking the kid off of her hands. I'm not sure that I'd give her back her daughter without having CPS look in on her and see what living conditions/arrangements that they are returning the child to.

...and what have you concluded about this whole episode?

Nothing. He'll do the same thing all over again the next time.

Novaheart
01-18-2012, 11:51 AM
. The girl was alone about 30 minutes before being discovered. .

In the first article this was presented as a guesstimate; now it's being reported as a fact. See how that works?




The child was evaluated at the park and appeared to be in stable condition.

Really? Interesting choice of words. Normally we refer to people being in "stable condition" after they have suffered a medical emergency. In other words, there was nothing wrong with the girl.




Mack is not part of the Occupy DC movement that has set up camp at McPherson Square.

This is irrelevant to the issue, but not to the discussion here where some people (not you of course) were attributing this man's behavior to his alleged political affiliations.




The girl was taken in to the custody of Child Protective Services and then returned to her family, her mother told Gonzalez.

So what happened was so horrible that the DCF returned the child to the people who originally allowed the child to be cared for by a mother and 'father figure' the police consider to be dangerous to the well being of the child. Fascinating.





Now, this being the MSNBC site, we're going to have to dig a bit to work at the bolded parts. They state that he was not part of the Occupy DC camp, but how do they know this?

I don't see how it's relevant, unless their point is that he can't claim to have left the child in a tent surrounded by people whom Mack had reason to trust.




Nothing. He'll do the same thing all over again the next time.

Because none of the color of the additional articles which I brought here has any bearing on the original discussion.

Rockntractor
01-18-2012, 11:52 AM
No, actually I didn't. I discussed whether what the man did rose to the level of child abuse or neglect.

http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/vv230/upyourstruly/work73740781figwhiteshortsleeve_one_pieceffffffall-hat-and-no-cattle-v3.jpg

Novaheart
01-18-2012, 11:56 AM
<<<<<idiotic crap >>>>

Sometimes I think you spin a wheel (like Wheel of Fortune) before posting, and if it lands on "idiotic" you just go with it.

Rockntractor
01-18-2012, 12:00 PM
Sometimes I think you spin a wheel (like Wheel of Fortune) before posting, and if it lands on "idiotic" you just go with it.

http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/vv230/upyourstruly/525021.jpg

Odysseus
01-18-2012, 01:57 PM
In the first article this was presented as a guesstimate; now it's being reported as a fact. See how that works?
Yes. As more information becomes available, we confirm facts and determine which assumptions were valid. What was initially a guess turned out ot be accurate. Do you see how that works?


Really? Interesting choice of words. Normally we refer to people being in "stable condition" after they have suffered a medical emergency. In other words, there was nothing wrong with the girl.
Uh, no. The medical terms and their definitions are:


Critical condition, by definition, requires care in a critical care or intensive care unit, with a high risk of death within the next 24 hours.
Serious means that there is a lower likelihood of death within 24 hours, but the patient still requires close observation.
Stable means that there are no major active medical issues and the patient's basic vital functions are not fluctuating or in need of support.

It does not mean that she did not require medical attention. It means that she no longer requires it.


This is irrelevant to the issue, but not to the discussion here where some people (not you of course) were attributing this man's behavior to his alleged political affiliations.

While some others (not you, of course) were defending his behavior because of his alleged political affiliations.


So what happened was so horrible that the DCF returned the child to the people who originally allowed the child to be cared for by a mother and 'father figure' the police consider to be dangerous to the well being of the child. Fascinating.
No, they gave the child back to her mother. The person who had the child wasn't a custodial parent, and was not given the child. The article doesn't mention whether any follow up was scheduled, although I'm sure that Noonwitch can tell us the procedures that are usually followed.


I don't see how it's relevant, unless their point is that he can't claim to have left the child in a tent surrounded by people whom Mack had reason to trust.
See above about political affiliations. MSDNC has been shilling for the Occupiers since the beginning, and would be embarrassed if it turned out that Mack was part of the movement. And he didn't leave the child with people that he could trust, since there was nobody in the tent, and the nearest people didn't know that she had been left with them, which is why they called the police.


Because none of the color of the additional articles which I brought here has any bearing on the original discussion.

Actually, the original article had a great deal of bearing on the discussion. But, as I said, you didn't learn anything from this, regardless of your reason for claiming that.


Sometimes I think you spin a wheel (like Wheel of Fortune) before posting, and if it lands on "idiotic" you just go with it.

Whereas yours is, to quote LTG Honore, "stuck on stupid".

RobJohnson
01-19-2012, 02:59 AM
Sometimes I think you spin a wheel (like Wheel of Fortune) before posting, and if it lands on "idiotic" you just go with it.

Admit it, you failed....again. The pig wins!


http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-BfX9TJC5VVI/TiWivwl5-XI/AAAAAAAAAKI/BnBS7OKZGvA/s320/hilbillie-pig_by_ricardo_chucky.jpg

noonwitch
01-19-2012, 09:33 AM
Admit it, you failed....again. The pig wins!


http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-BfX9TJC5VVI/TiWivwl5-XI/AAAAAAAAAKI/BnBS7OKZGvA/s320/hilbillie-pig_by_ricardo_chucky.jpg

Awesome picture. Rock is going to love it.

Rockntractor
01-19-2012, 01:33 PM
Admit it, you failed....again. The pig wins!


http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-BfX9TJC5VVI/TiWivwl5-XI/AAAAAAAAAKI/BnBS7OKZGvA/s320/hilbillie-pig_by_ricardo_chucky.jpg

Most awesomeness!:D

RobJohnson
01-20-2012, 12:12 AM
Awesome picture. Rock is going to love it.

He is even wearing his good clothes!

Odysseus
01-20-2012, 12:55 PM
He is even wearing his good clothes!

Those aren't his good clothes.

https://encrypted-tbn3.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQRuXHiCeTuDWMBxwyWJAqG4z0jIcRly vwLMegNhS-SDy3pOvY7Vg

http://www.sekimori.com/misc/tux_pig.gif
The name's Tractor. Rockntractor. :D

RobJohnson
01-22-2012, 02:57 PM
The name's Tractor. Rockntractor. :D

:D