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linda22003
01-30-2012, 10:54 AM
Charles Murray, the conservative social philosopher, has a new book out, Coming Apart: the State of White America, 1960-2010. In it, he posits that the "ruling" classes are increasingly out of touch with "regular" Americans, and he gives you a (very subjective) quiz to see if you're one of them. We'll discuss my results after some of you take it.

Sorry, it's not online choices and hit "send" - you'll need a pencil.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/77349055/Coming-Apart-by-Charles-Murray-Quiz

Ranger Rick
01-30-2012, 10:00 PM
Sored 66




A lifelong resident of a working-class neighborhood with average televi-sion and moviegoing habits.

Range: 48–99. Typical: 77.



A first- generation middle-class person with working-class parents and average television and moviegoing habits.

Range: 42–100. Typical: 66.



A first- generation upper-middle- class person with middle-class par- ents.

Range: 11–80. Typical: 33.



A second- generation (or more) upper-middle-class person who has made a point of getting out a lot.

Range: 0–43. Typical: 9.



A second- generation (or more) upper-middle-class person with the tele- vision and moviegoing habits of the upper middle class.

Range: 0–20.Typical: 2.

Not even close: I am third generation Upper Middle Class, I go to bed at 7 so no TV.

Rockntractor
01-30-2012, 10:34 PM
I thought she said, are you in a Bubba.:eek::eek:

linda22003
01-30-2012, 10:44 PM
I got 25, but friends told me I had to subtract a few - they said Sam Adams wasn't a mass market beer, and going fishing didn't mean chartering a boat in the Outer Banks for a friend's birthday present. :rolleyes:

Kay
01-31-2012, 12:08 AM
I got a 63.

Music to take the test by:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tTH6ZWMrsg&feature=youtube_gdata_player

linda22003
01-31-2012, 09:37 AM
Digression- I liked Paul Young back in the day.

Novaheart
01-31-2012, 01:39 PM
1. Have you ever lived for at least a year in an American neighbor-hood in which the majority of your fifty nearest neighbors prob-ably did not have college degrees?

I'd say that applies now. Most of my neighbors are retired or self employed.



2. Did you grow up in a family in which the chief breadwinner was
not
in a managerial job or a high-prestige profession (defined asattorney, physician, dentist, architect, engineer, scientist, or col-lege professor)?

No

3. Have you ever lived for at least a year in an American communityunder 50,000 population that is not part of a metropolitan areaand was not where your college was located?

Yes

4. Have you ever lived for at least a year in the United States at afamily income that was close to or below the poverty line?
No.

Have you ever walked on a factory floor?

Yes. I actually worked a blue line machine for awhile. It made me sick.

6. Have you ever held a job that caused something to hurt at the endof the day?

You mean like my feet? You bet.

linda22003
01-31-2012, 01:43 PM
6. Have you ever held a job that caused something to hurt at the endof the day?

You mean like my feet? You bet.

I got points for that as well, because I worked in a department store part time during college. There was a woman on the handbag counter who had been at that post longer than I had been alive. It was liberating to know that at the age of eighteen, I had already had the very worst job of my life.

bijou
01-31-2012, 01:45 PM
I answered this, obviously one or two of the particular questions aren't applicable here, but interestingly the end result was pretty accurate (first generation upper middle class of middle class parents). It looks an interesting book, Charles Murray is pretty controversial at times but worth reading his opinions at least as a new viewpoint to consider.

Arroyo_Doble
01-31-2012, 02:10 PM
1. Have you ever lived for at least a year in an American neighbor-hood in which the majority of your fifty nearest neighbors prob-ably did not have college degrees?

Yes.

2. Did you grow up in a family in which the chief breadwinner was
not in a managerial job or a high-prestige profession (defined asattorney, physician, dentist, architect, engineer, scientist, or col-lege professor)?

Yes.

3. Have you ever lived for at least a year in an American communityunder 50,000 population that is not part of a metropolitan areaand was not where your college was located?

Yes.

4. Have you ever lived for at least a year in the United States at afamily income that was close to or below the poverty line? Youmay answer “yes” if your family income then was below $30,000in 2010 dollars. Graduate school doesn’t count. Living unem-ployed with your family after college doesn’t count.Take your best guess. For estimating your family’s past income,you should multiply what you or your parents used to make by the inflator appropriate to that time. For example, if your dad made$7,000 a year when you were growing up in 1970, you should mul-tiply that by 5.61. He made about $39,270 in 2010 dollars. You may estimate the inflator for any particular year from these: 1940,15.66; 1950, 9.12; 1960, 7.41; 1970, 5.61; 1980, 2.64; 1990, 1.67;2000, 1.26.

Yes.

5. Have you ever walked on a factory floor?

Yes.

6. Have you ever held a job that caused something to hurt at the end of the day?

Yes.

7. Have you ever had a close friend who was an evangelical Christian?

Yes.

8. Do you now have a close friend with whom you have strong and wide-ranging political disagreements?

Yes.

9. Have you ever had a close friend who could seldom get better than Cs in high school even if he or she tried hard?

Yes.

10. During the last month, have you voluntarily hung out with people who were smoking cigarettes?

Yes.

11. What military ranks do these five insignia represent?

I could not see them but I could probably identify them.

12. Choose one. Who is Jimmie Johnson? Or: Have you ever pur-chased Avon products?

He was the former coach of the Dallas Cowboys.

13. Have you or your spouse ever bought a pickup truck?

Yes.

14. During the last year, have you ever purchased domestic mass-market beer to stock your own fridge?

No.

15. During the last five years, have you or your spouse gone fishing?

No.

16. How many times in the last year have you eaten at one of the fol-lowing restaurant chains? Applebee’s, Waffle House, Denny’s, IHOP, Chili’s, Outback Steakhouse, Ruby Tuesday, T.G.I. Fri-day’s, Ponderosa Steakhouse

More than 10 ... can't be more specific than that. I eat at the Waffle House quite often.

17. In secondary school, did you letter in anything?

Yes.

18. Have you ever attended a meeting of a Kiwanis Club or RotaryClub, or a meeting at a union local?

No.

19. Have you ever participated in a parade not involving global warming, a war protest, or gay rights?

Yes.

20. Since leaving school, have you ever worn a uniform?

Yes.

21. Have you ever ridden on a long-distance bus (e.g., Greyhound,Trailways) or hitchhiked for a trip of fifty miles or more?

Yes.

22. Which of the following movies have you seen (at a theater or on a DVD)?
Iron Man 2, Inception, Despicable Me, Tron Legacy, True Grit, Clash of the Titans, Grown Ups, Little Fockers, The King’s Speech, Shutter Island

4.

23. During the 2009–10 television season, how many of the following series did you watch regularly?
American Idol, Undercover Boss, The Big Bang Theory, Grey’s Anatomy, Lost, House, Desperate Housewives, Two and a Half Men, The Office, Survivor

Zero.

24. Have you ever watched an Oprah, Dr. Phil,or Judge Judy show all the way through?

No.

25. What does the word Branson mean to you?

Missouri.

Arroyo_Doble
01-31-2012, 02:10 PM
I scored 77.

Typical.

djones520
01-31-2012, 02:23 PM
I got a 64. Picked up a lot of points with the military stuff.

linda22003
01-31-2012, 02:27 PM
12. Choose one. Who is Jimmie Johnson? Or: Have you ever pur-chased Avon products?

He was the former coach of the Dallas Cowboys.



In his answers, Murray says that Jimmie Johnson is a NASCAR driver but that you got credit for guessing Jimmy (with a Y) Johnson, of the Dallas Cowboys. I had never heard of either one, but I did get a point for buying an Avon product.

Arroyo_Doble
01-31-2012, 02:36 PM
I got a 64. Picked up a lot of points with the military stuff.

I had the military stuff, growing up rural Arkansas Baptist, and having worked at a Goodyear factory and a poultry processing plant.

All that counteracted the fact that I drink micro-brewed beer and don't watch television much.

djones520
01-31-2012, 03:39 PM
I had the military stuff, growing up rural Arkansas Baptist, and having worked at a Goodyear factory and a poultry processing plant.

All that counteracted the fact that I drink micro-brewed beer and don't watch television much.

Yeah, I don't drink beer, and watch TV either. There were a total of 6 questions that I got 0 points on.

Novaheart
01-31-2012, 04:48 PM
7. Have you ever had a close friend who was an evangelical Christian?

Not even when I lived in Farmland. Those were the "country Baptists". Intown Baptists were more like Methodists.

8. Do you now have a close friend with whom you have strong and wide-ranging political disagreements?

Yes.

9. Have you ever had a close friend who could seldom get better than Cs in high school even if he or she tried hard?

No.

10. During the last month, have you voluntarily hung out with people who were smoking cigarettes?

Yes.

11. What military ranks do these five insignia represent?

What. Maybe. Possibly. Yes. Right away sir. (actually I couldn't see the insignias either)



12. Choose one. Who is Jimmie Johnson? Or: Have you ever pur-chased Avon products?

Don't know, don't care, and are you serious?

13. Have you or your spouse ever bought a pickup truck?

Of course.

14. During the last year, have you ever purchased domestic mass-market beer to stock your own fridge?

Yeah, and a bag of cheetos and some boxer shorts with cartoon characters.

15. During the last five years, have you or your spouse gone fishing?

No.

16. How many times in the last year have you eaten at one of the fol-lowing restaurant chains? Applebee’s, Waffle House, Denny’s, IHOP, Chili’s, Outback Steakhouse, Ruby Tuesday, T.G.I. Fri-day’s, Ponderosa Steakhouse

We went to Denny's about a year ago. I was disappointed. I wanted biscuits with gravy and they weren't very good.

17. In secondary school, did you letter in anything?

I went to hippie school.

18. Have you ever attended a meeting of a Kiwanis Club or RotaryClub, or a meeting at a union local?

No, no, yes.

19. Have you ever participated in a parade not involving global warming, a war protest, or gay rights?

Yes.

20. Since leaving school, have you ever worn a uniform?

Yes. You devil.

21. Have you ever ridden on a long-distance bus (e.g., Greyhound,Trailways) or hitchhiked for a trip of fifty miles or more?

Surprisingly enough, I have. But I had to convince my parents to let me do it. I was fifteen.

22. Which of the following movies have you seen (at a theater or on a DVD)?
Iron Man 2, Inception, Despicable Me, Tron Legacy, True Grit, Clash of the Titans, Grown Ups, Little Fockers, The King’s Speech, Shutter Island



23. During the 2009–10 television season, how many of the following series did you watch regularly?
American Idol, Undercover Boss, The Big Bang Theory, Grey’s Anatomy, Lost, House, Desperate Housewives, Two and a Half Men, The Office, Survivor

Zero, because the condition of "regularly". Do to obligations, I can't watch anything regularly. But lately I am amused by Big Bang Theory. Survivor got old with the cliché characters, ie mouthy black chick, swishy gay guy, buff old guy, whiney woman, corney BAC saying "heck" all the time.

24. Have you ever watched an Oprah, Dr. Phil,or Judge Judy show all the way through?

Yes

25. What does the word Branson mean to you?

Death Wish and Death Wish II

SaintLouieWoman
01-31-2012, 05:59 PM
I got a 21.

Odysseus
01-31-2012, 06:09 PM
I got a 64. Picked up a lot of points with the military stuff.
72 points, and the military made a big difference. If I hadn't joined, and kept my life the way that it was going, I'd have been in the 40s.

7.
25. What does the word Branson mean to you?

Death Wish and Death Wish II

Uh, that's Bronson. :rolleyes:

linda22003
01-31-2012, 08:04 PM
I got a 21.

Impressive. I wasn't sure anyone would score lower than I did! ;)

SaintLouieWoman
01-31-2012, 09:33 PM
Impressive. I wasn't sure anyone would score lower than I did! ;)

OMG, I can't believe it either. The Avon and living in a neighborhood (last one in St Louis before moving here) with below 50% college grads got me to the 21, plus living in a small town for a year.

Can't believe their criteria. The part giving points for being in the military or knowing the ranks is absurd. That "conservative" writer really is snooty. And you know the Avon that I used when in St Louis (because one of the girls in the office was a very pushy Avon saleswoman) did just as well or better than the Estee Lauder or Chanel. :D

Retread
01-31-2012, 10:19 PM
67 when my group typical is 66 - just another country redneck.

lurkalot
01-31-2012, 11:47 PM
The entire quiz is my biography

enslaved1
02-01-2012, 02:39 PM
I scored 65, but do you go by the range or the typical? Lost some points on the military insignia and not watching any tv regularly, despite liking several shows on the list,(same with the movies) and associating Jimmy Johnson only with sausage, not NASCAR or coaching.

Arroyo_Doble
02-01-2012, 02:42 PM
I scored 65, but do you go by the range or the typical? Lost some points on the military insignia and not watching any tv regularly, despite liking several shows on the list,(same with the movies) and associating Jimmy Johnson only with sausage, not NASCAR or coaching.

I believe you are thinking of Jimmy Dean.


http://www.google.com/url?source=imglanding&ct=img&q=http://jimmydean.com/Themes/default/images/recipes/beauty-shots/Jimmy-Dean-Roll-Sausage-Regular.jpg&sa=X&ei=inkpT7DIBYeq2QXw_9TgAg&ved=0CAwQ8wc&usg=AFQjCNGwdMqpYmlRY4zWwN0blaYHXWvu6w

Odysseus
02-01-2012, 03:03 PM
OMG, I can't believe it either. The Avon and living in a neighborhood (last one in St Louis before moving here) with below 50% college grads got me to the 21, plus living in a small town for a year.

Can't believe their criteria. The part giving points for being in the military or knowing the ranks is absurd. That "conservative" writer really is snooty. And you know the Avon that I used when in St Louis (because one of the girls in the office was a very pushy Avon saleswoman) did just as well or better than the Estee Lauder or Chanel. :D
The rank question measures proximity to the military. Knowing the ranks means that you most likely interact with uniformed personnel fairly regularly, or at least often enough to be curious about them. Most of the ruling class types disdain military service and don't have a clue. My wife would have gotten the officer ranks and the corporal stripes, but nobody outside of the Air Force can read their enlisted ranks.

I believe you are thinking of Jimmy Dean.


http://www.google.com/url?source=imglanding&ct=img&q=http://jimmydean.com/Themes/default/images/recipes/beauty-shots/Jimmy-Dean-Roll-Sausage-Regular.jpg&sa=X&ei=inkpT7DIBYeq2QXw_9TgAg&ved=0CAwQ8wc&usg=AFQjCNGwdMqpYmlRY4zWwN0blaYHXWvu6w

Jimmy Dean, the first choice in Islamic interrogation tools. :D

Arroyo_Doble
02-01-2012, 03:06 PM
The rank question measures proximity to the military. Knowing the ranks means that you most likely interact with uniformed personnel fairly regularly, or at least often enough to be curious about them. Most of the ruling class types disdain military service and don't have a clue. My wife would have gotten the officer ranks and the corporal stripes, but nobody outside of the Air Force can read their enlisted ranks.


Is that a recent phenomenon? Not snark, I am genuinely curious. I have never looked that deeply into the matter.

Disclaimer: I favor the draft (or mandatory service ... whatever you choose to call it)

enslaved1
02-01-2012, 03:17 PM
I believe you are thinking of Jimmy Dean.


http://www.google.com/url?source=imglanding&ct=img&q=http://jimmydean.com/Themes/default/images/recipes/beauty-shots/Jimmy-Dean-Roll-Sausage-Regular.jpg&sa=X&ei=inkpT7DIBYeq2QXw_9TgAg&ved=0CAwQ8wc&usg=AFQjCNGwdMqpYmlRY4zWwN0blaYHXWvu6w

Now I'm hungry and have no sausage. :mad:

Odysseus
02-01-2012, 05:10 PM
Is that a recent phenomenon? Not snark, I am genuinely curious. I have never looked that deeply into the matter.
Yes. Ever since Vietnam, it's become a generational issue, and the older somebody in the elites is, the more likely that they are to have served in uniform. For example, the Ivy League schools were heavily represented in WWI, WWII and Korea, but by the late sixties, the attitude on campuses had turned against the military . Also, if you look at congress, the percentage that have military service much lower than it used to be, especially among the younger members of the house and senate. You'd have to dig pretty hard to find a media personality who has served in uniform, although the older guys, like Dan Rather, for example, did serve, because it was expected.

Disclaimer: I favor the draft (or mandatory service ... whatever you choose to call it)
I'll pass. Draftees have a nasty habit of fragging officers.

Now I'm hungry and have no sausage. :mad:

Sounds like a personal problem. :D

Arroyo_Doble
02-01-2012, 05:35 PM
Yes. Ever since Vietnam, it's become a generational issue, and the older somebody in the elites is, the more likely that they are to have served in uniform. For example, the Ivy League schools were heavily represented in WWI, WWII and Korea, but by the late sixties, the attitude on campuses had turned against the military . Also, if you look at congress, the percentage that have military service much lower than it used to be, especially among the younger members of the house and senate. You'd have to dig pretty hard to find a media personality who has served in uniform, although the older guys, like Dan Rather, for example, did serve, because it was expected.

That is what I thought but did not really have the data. It might change with the near decade of conflict we have been in but since it was volunteer, that limits the pool.


I'll pass. Draftees have a nasty habit of fragging officers.

I suppose. To me, though, it gives the citizens a better connection to our military and makes it less of an abstraction. It would also have the side benefit of ending the treatment of service in a cavalier fashion. If I had a dollar for everyone that said, "well, they volunteered," I would have enough money to pay someone to punch alot of noses.

JB
02-01-2012, 05:48 PM
Sorry, it's not online choices and hit "send" - you'll need a pencil.Quizzing is hard.

Odysseus
02-01-2012, 07:07 PM
That is what I thought but did not really have the data. It might change with the near decade of conflict we have been in but since it was volunteer, that limits the pool.
Unlikely. The current campus climate is at least as hostile as it was in the sixties. Columbia University's debate on restoring ROTC after the repeal of DADT consisted of some of the most vicious, rancorous anti-military rhetoric that I'd ever heard, including some very nasty heckling of a student who was also a wounded vet. I can't imagine trying to cross any of the larger UC campuses in uniform, and forget about Harvard.


I suppose. To me, though, it gives the citizens a better connection to our military and makes it less of an abstraction. It would also have the side benefit of ending the treatment of service in a cavalier fashion. If I had a dollar for everyone that said, "well, they volunteered," I would have enough money to pay someone to punch alot of noses.

Compelling spoiled kids to serve in the military won't improve the military or the kids, it will simply guarantee that most of my time is spent dealing with far more discipline cases, and worse ones, than the voluntary force generates. It would also foment antiwar activism, which is why Democrats in congress kept pushing for a draft during the Iraq War. And, quite frankly, I prefer to serve with people who have chosen to be here. I like knowing that the kid who's got my back didn't join up because he had the choice of going into the army or going to jail, or because his dad didn't have any pull with a draft board, and it focuses me on my responsibilities, as well, because I know that the troops around me joined up in the belief that they were becoming something more than they were, and that they trusted those above them to take their sacrifices seriously.

Shakespeare said it best in Henry V:


What's he that wishes so?
My cousin Westmoreland? No, my fair cousin;
If we are mark'd to die, we are enow
To do our country loss; and if to live,
The fewer men, the greater share of honour.
God's will! I pray thee, wish not one man more.
By Jove, I am not covetous for gold,
Nor care I who doth feed upon my cost;
It yearns me not if men my garments wear;
Such outward things dwell not in my desires.
But if it be a sin to covet honour,
I am the most offending soul alive.
No, faith, my coz, wish not a man from England.
God's peace! I would not lose so great an honour
As one man more methinks would share from me
For the best hope I have. O, do not wish one more!
Rather proclaim it, Westmoreland, through my host,
That he which hath no stomach to this fight,
Let him depart; his passport shall be made,
And crowns for convoy put into his purse;
We would not die in that man's company
That fears his fellowship to die with us.

We don't need a draft, but we do need to change the presumption that you can sit back, fat, dumb and happy, while others protect you, by reminding people that America has responsibilities as well as rights. People join the military because they believe in America. That's not to say that the benefits, the bonuses and college programs don't help, but the self-absorbed Occupunks loathe America, and want to see us brought low, and no matter how much of their education we were willing to pay for, they will never feel anything but contempt for those of us who wear the flag instead of burning it.

I also find a lot of the discussion about using the military as a path to citizenship disturbing, not out of any anti-immigrant feeling, but because Rome recruited whole tribes of legionaires that way, and the results in the long term were terrible. If a legal resident joins up because he respects what we stand for and wants to be a part of it, and eventually work his way towards citizenship, then more power to him, but we're not meant to be a social program or a bribe to get foreigners to defend what our own citizens no longer value.