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djones520
01-30-2012, 10:50 AM
http://www.seattlepi.com/news/article/Occupy-protest-resurfaces-in-Oakland-after-lull-2835223.php



OAKLAND, Calif. (AP) — It started peacefully enough: A midday rally at City Hall and a march. But as the day wore on, Oakland was hit by the most turbulent protests in weeks as Occupy demonstrators clashed repeatedly with police, leaving more than 400 people arrested.

The demonstrations in downtown Oakland broke a lull that had seen just a smattering of people taking to Oakland's streets in recent weeks for occasional marches that bore little resemblance to the headline-grabbing Occupy demonstrations of last fall.

That all changed Saturday with clashes punctuated by rock and bottle throwing by protesters and volleys of tear gas from police, and a City Hall break-in that left glass cases smashed, graffiti spray-painted on walls and an American flag burned.

AP photos showing the flag burning — including images of masked protesters touching off the blaze, a woman urging protesters not to burn it, and another of an officer stomping out the fire — drew attention on social networking sites.

At least three officers and one protester were injured. Police spokesman Sgt. Jeff Thomason said there were more than 400 arrests on charges ranging from failure to disperse to vandalism,

On Sunday, Oakland officials vowed to be ready if Occupy protesters try to mount another large-scale demonstration. Protesters, meanwhile, decried Saturday's police tactics as illegal and threatened to sue.


http://ww3.hdnux.com/photos/10/33/17/2208750/17/628x471.jpg

The US Flag has a special meaning in my life. To me, it symbolizes everything I've spent the last 10 years wearing a uniform for, plus the 6 further years I'll be signing for in 2 weeks. It reaches me at almost a spiritual level you can say, no matter what I'm feeling when I look at it, everything just stops and a sense of strong pride fills me. It helps me realize that no matter how things are in life, what that flag represents something that I will always be proud to say I've devoted my life to protecting. It's probably the closest thing that I have to a spiritual guide in my life.

When I see actions like this, it makes me wonder how I can justify putting people like that before it. To continue protecting their rights to tread over everything that I hold dear in life. I know it is my responsibility to, but when I truly look within myself, I find that I cannot. I cannot truthfully stand up and say I defend the right of these people to deface America.

While I hold my head high with the duty I have and will continue to faithfully serve the good citizens of America, I just do not think I can blindly extend that umbrella to all American citizens anymore...

Odysseus
01-30-2012, 11:05 AM
I keep saying that we need to amend the Immigration and Naturalization Act to make flag burning nito a formal renunciation of citizenship. Those who wish be Americans don't burn the flag.

Arroyo_Doble
01-30-2012, 11:15 AM
Apparently, the media attention went away.

Lanie
01-30-2012, 11:25 AM
They're wearing hankerchiefs on their face. How can anybody say these are regular people and not fringe movement people who are leading?

Odysseus
01-30-2012, 12:33 PM
They're wearing hankerchiefs on their face. How can anybody say these are regular people and not fringe movement people who are leading?

The leadership of an organization isn't the fringe, it's the leadership. If people don't want to be associated with this kind of conduct, they won't show up, or they'll act separately and repudiate the others. None of these things have happened. This is the face of the movement, complete with bandanas.

And, it gets worse. Another occupier posted his update to the Pledge of Allegiance over this video.


Occupy Pledge of Allegiance: “…and to the plutocracy for which it stands, the privately owned central bank, under the Jews…”
During yesterday’s hours-long rioting at the Occupy Oakland protest, the Occupiers burned a United States flag in front of Oakland City Hall (before later breaking in and smashing up irreplaceable antique museum exhibits in the foyer). Someone posted a video of the flag-burning to YouTube, and then added narration on top of it — his own rendition of the Pledge of Allegiance in an Occupy theme:

Here’s exactly what he says as the Oakland Occupiers burn the flag:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=5pzI-hmAag8

“I pledge allegiance to the flag of the imperialistic capitalistic dictatorship, and to the plutocracy for which it stands, the privately owned central bank, under the Jews, with inequality and injustice for the 99.“

It’s not clear who made the narration and the video — it could be one of the Occupiers themselves, or a local Occupy sympathizer, or perhaps just some random guy on the Internet getting all excited seeing the Occupiers in action.

(The YouTube channel for the narrator has this self-description: “Combination of Technical analysis, marxism, monetary history, and mainstream economic analysis,” alongside a litany of Bay Area Occupy and “evil Federal Reserve” videos.)

But even if it was just some random guy, you’ve got to ask yourself:

When rank anti-Semites are inspired by your actions to rant about evil Jews controlling the banks, isn’t it time to re-think your message?

Looks like the Occupiers have embraced their leaders’ call to spread hate.

[Hat tip to Ringo of Ringo's Pictures for digging up the video. Also reported at Moonbat Tracker and
Weasel Zippers.]
http://pjmedia.com/tatler/2012/01/29/occupy-pledge-of-allegiance-under-the-jews/

Novaheart
01-30-2012, 01:52 PM
[ ...........mething that I will always be proud to say I've devoted my life to protecting. It's probably the closest thing that I have to a spiritual guide in my life.

When I see actions like this, it makes me wonder how I can justify putting people like that before it. To continue protecting their rights to tread over everything that I hold dear in life. I know it is my responsibility to, but when I truly look within myself, I find that I cannot. I cannot truthfully stand up and say I defend the right of these people to deface America.

While I hold my head high with the duty I have and will continue to faithfully serve the good citizens of America, I just do not think I can blindly extend that umbrella to all American citizens anymore...

300,000,000 citizens and a few thousand that think burning the flag is clever or deep. I'd bet the ratio hasn't changed much since 1900.

Novaheart
01-30-2012, 02:00 PM
[INDENT]Occupy Pledge of Allegiance: “…and to the plutocracy for which it stands, the privately owned central bank, under the Jews…”
During yesterday’s hours-long rioting at the Occupy Oakland protest, the Occupiers burned a United States flag in front of Oakland City Hall (before later breaking in and smashing up irreplaceable antique museum exhibits in the foyer). Someone posted a video of the flag-burning to YouTube, and then added narration on top of it — his own rendition of the Pledge of Allegiance in an Occupy theme:

Some"one", singular, put "his" singular rendition of the Pledge on You Tube.

If you think I can't find a similar individual at a Tea Party rally, then you are indeed delusional.

Lanie
01-30-2012, 02:03 PM
The leadership of an organization isn't the fringe, it's the leadership. If people don't want to be associated with this kind of conduct, they won't show up, or they'll act separately and repudiate the others. None of these things have happened. This is the face of the movement, complete with bandanas.

And, it gets worse. Another occupier posted his update to the Pledge of Allegiance over this video.


Occupy Pledge of Allegiance: “…and to the plutocracy for which it stands, the privately owned central bank, under the Jews…”
During yesterday’s hours-long rioting at the Occupy Oakland protest, the Occupiers burned a United States flag in front of Oakland City Hall (before later breaking in and smashing up irreplaceable antique museum exhibits in the foyer). Someone posted a video of the flag-burning to YouTube, and then added narration on top of it — his own rendition of the Pledge of Allegiance in an Occupy theme:

Here’s exactly what he says as the Oakland Occupiers burn the flag:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=5pzI-hmAag8

“I pledge allegiance to the flag of the imperialistic capitalistic dictatorship, and to the plutocracy for which it stands, the privately owned central bank, under the Jews, with inequality and injustice for the 99.“

It’s not clear who made the narration and the video — it could be one of the Occupiers themselves, or a local Occupy sympathizer, or perhaps just some random guy on the Internet getting all excited seeing the Occupiers in action.

(The YouTube channel for the narrator has this self-description: “Combination of Technical analysis, marxism, monetary history, and mainstream economic analysis,” alongside a litany of Bay Area Occupy and “evil Federal Reserve” videos.)

But even if it was just some random guy, you’ve got to ask yourself:

When rank anti-Semites are inspired by your actions to rant about evil Jews controlling the banks, isn’t it time to re-think your message?

Looks like the Occupiers have embraced their leaders’ call to spread hate.

[Hat tip to Ringo of Ringo's Pictures for digging up the video. Also reported at Moonbat Tracker and
Weasel Zippers.]
http://pjmedia.com/tatler/2012/01/29/occupy-pledge-of-allegiance-under-the-jews/


A lot of people think that the issue should be whether they agree with the cause, not whether they agree with the other fringe beliefs. At least, that was the argument when ANSWER held their anti-war marches years ago.

That said, these people need to be slapped along with people who do work with them.

Odysseus
01-30-2012, 03:43 PM
300,000,000 citizens and a few thousand that think burning the flag is clever or deep. I'd bet the ratio hasn't changed much since 1900.
Yes, but out of a few thousand occupiers, a few thousand think that burning the flag is clever. The percentage of Americans who want to burn the flag is probably well down into the low single digits. The percentage of occupiers who want to burn it seems substantially higher.

Some"one", singular, put "his" singular rendition of the Pledge on You Tube.

If you think I can't find a similar individual at a Tea Party rally, then you are indeed delusional.
I didn't say that you couldn't (although the media has certainly tried their best to do so and come up short). However, whenever someone at a Tea Party event did anything even remotely racist, they were tossed and the leadership would disavow them as quickly as possible, and the rank and file often beat them to the punch. The OWS organizers have made it a point to ignore the antisemitism in their movement and made no attempt to repudiate it or prevent further outbreaks. The reason for this is that antisemitism is a major part of the worldview of the OWS crowd. As programmers like to say, it's not a bug, it's a feature.


A lot of people think that the issue should be whether they agree with the cause, not whether they agree with the other fringe beliefs. At least, that was the argument when ANSWER held their anti-war marches years ago.

That said, these people need to be slapped along with people who do work with them.
ANSWER didn't crack down on people who were using their rallies to foment violent overthrow of the US government, hatred or assorted other leftist causes because they agreed with them, not because they were willing to overlook differences in order to unite for a common cause. The war was just the pretext to lend urgency to their program.

But, what is the OWS cause? What does OWS stand for besides camping on other people's property and bitching about the inequities of the economic system that have provided them with a pretty cushy life? Sooner or later, you have to realize that what they say is what they mean. Their cause is what they present, a paranoid rant against capitalism, America, bankers, wealth (and those who have it), Jews, etc. It's who they are.

Rockntractor
01-30-2012, 04:05 PM
This is a suicidal move in the public relations department, Unless a group has the actual power to overthrow a government and replace it's flag burning it will only mean the demise of what ever group tries this means of protest, it doesn't matter what country it is done in.

Odysseus
01-30-2012, 04:16 PM
This is a suicidal move in the public relations department, Unless a group has the actual power to overthrow a government and replace it's flag burning it will only mean the demise of what ever group tries this means of protest, it doesn't matter what country it is done in.

It would be suicidal if it got out, but what media outlets are giving this the attention that it deserves? When an obscure pastor in FL planned to burn a Qur'an, it was national news, and even Obama weighed in. This hasn't gotten nearly the coverage.

Rockntractor
01-30-2012, 04:22 PM
It would be suicidal if it got out, but what media outlets are giving this the attention that it deserves? When an obscure pastor in FL planned to burn a Qur'an, it was national news, and even Obama weighed in. This hasn't gotten nearly the coverage.

We need to try to keep it at the front. They keep trying this crap about infiltrators but no one other than someone with the brain of a small child believes that.

djones520
01-30-2012, 04:42 PM
I spread it on facebook. That seems to be the easiest way to get stuff out there these days.

Tipsycatlover
01-30-2012, 05:14 PM
I wish them well. Recreate '68, as they often say. The intelligence of the occupiers was well exhibited by burning the flag inside city hall, which was at least as intelligent as the last occupy group that was burning flag inside a tent.

So far, this isn't getting the press it deserves. The protests need to be bigger, louder and way more violent. Keeping it quiet won't get obambam tossed out.

JB
01-30-2012, 07:19 PM
I spread it on facebook. That seems to be the easiest way to get stuff out there these days.The local station in Philly covered it. The didn't show the flag burning part but they had footage of the idiots rioting like the animals they are. And they mentioned the animals caused $2 million in damage.

It was a good report considering I don't give a shit about Oakland. :p

NJCardFan
01-30-2012, 11:45 PM
Some"one", singular, put "his" singular rendition of the Pledge on You Tube.

If you think I can't find a similar individual at a Tea Party rally, then you are indeed delusional.

You are such a child.

NJCardFan
01-30-2012, 11:46 PM
It would be suicidal if it got out, but what media outlets are giving this the attention that it deserves? When an obscure pastor in FL planned to burn a Qur'an, it was national news, and even Obama weighed in. This hasn't gotten nearly the coverage.

Even though both are equal when it comes to the argument about free speech.

Novaheart
01-30-2012, 11:51 PM
It would be suicidal if it got out, but what media outlets are giving this the attention that it deserves? When an obscure pastor in FL planned to burn a Qur'an, it was national news, and even Obama weighed in. This hasn't gotten nearly the coverage.

Are you going to riot in the street and set shit on fire due to this? Of course not. The jackass burning the Koran (which I actually found amusing, but he is a jackass anyway) was trying to incite violence. Now granted, he's not resposible for how the muzzies respond to what he does, but then these jackasses in Oakland aren't responsible for how you respond to what they do.

I don't know why you are fascinated with these people. These are in all likelihood the exact same people who demonstrate and annoy every single Sunday of every year at the San Francisco Civic Center. The only remarkable aspect of this Oakland thing is that the ghetto isn't pretending to participate and then preying on these people.

Odysseus
01-31-2012, 11:24 AM
Are you going to riot in the street and set shit on fire due to this? Of course not. The jackass burning the Koran (which I actually found amusing, but he is a jackass anyway) was trying to incite violence. Now granted, he's not resposible for how the muzzies respond to what he does, but then these jackasses in Oakland aren't responsible for how you respond to what they do.
So, you're saying that I should riot and set stuff on fire to register my objection to conduct that I find hateful so that the media and our elites will kowtow to me the way that they do to Muslims? Thanks for making part of my point. The fact is, the pastor wasn't inciting violence. The Muslims need no excuse, as they'll happily fabricate incidents if they can't find something. The best examples of this are the trumped up blasphemy charges against non-Muslims that come out whenever a Muslim is feeling envious or wants to put someone in their place, although the Danish cartoon riots were pretty impressive evidence, especially since the imams who ginned up the riots added their own cartoons to the mix in order to make them even more offensive to the tender sensitivities of the al Qaeda and Taliban wannabes who killed hundreds of people in response. The pastor was calling attention to the violent nature of Islam, and the results validated his argument.

My point is that there are no consequences for these guys. They commit a hateful public act and walk away without a care in the world. They publicly insult and renounce America and then continue to live here and suck down benefits.


I don't know why you are fascinated with these people. These are in all likelihood the exact same people who demonstrate and annoy every single Sunday of every year at the San Francisco Civic Center. The only remarkable aspect of this Oakland thing is that the ghetto isn't pretending to participate and then preying on these people.
Not so much fascinated as disgusted. Guys like me put our lives on hold, and often put them at risk, to protect these idiots, and they turn around and insult our nation. And the reason that they are more significant than the posers who spend their Sundays in the hood is that they have the word "Occupy" in front of their name, which makes them part of a mass movement that has been embraced by all sorts of folks in positions of authority who ought to know better. The Oakland group is vile, but they're part and parcel of Occupy Wall Street, and their conduct reflects on the entire movement, especially since the leadership never repudiates any of their extreme actions.

They are the face of the left in America, and I want to make sure that everybody sees it, especially before the next election.

Novaheart
01-31-2012, 11:33 AM
They are the face of the left in America ......

I don't think that they are, I think that they are the face that you like to put on the left because you think it works for you.

I play Trivia with "the left" on Wednesdays. They aren't anarchist idiots out there spewing about the evils of capitalism, the fed, jews, and the general injustices of the world. They are neo-quakers, school teachers, a handyman at a senior residence, an antique dealer, a retired director from Nav Air, an accountant at a major Christian organization and his son the aspiring (but unlikely) entertainment lawyer. These people will never vote Republican (except the lawyer son who is a Ronulan), they will go stand on the corner of US 19 and 22 with Stop The War signs, but they will not burn the American flag or hang out in Oakland.

djones520
01-31-2012, 11:39 AM
I don't think that they are, I think that they are the face that you like to put on the left because you think it works for you.

I play Trivia with "the left" on Wednesdays. They aren't anarchist idiots out there spewing about the evils of capitalism, the fed, jews, and the general injustices of the world. They are neo-quakers, school teachers, a handyman at a senior residence, an antique dealer, a retired director from Nav Air, an accountant at a major Christian organization and his son the aspiring (but unlikely) entertainment lawyer. These people will never vote Republican (except the lawyer son who is a Ronulan), they will go stand on the corner of US 19 and 22 with Stop The War signs, but they will not burn the American flag or hang out in Oakland.

Those people you play trivia with don't end up on the news every night though.

The "face" is the part that gets publicity.

Novaheart
01-31-2012, 11:42 AM
So, you're saying that I should riot and set stuff on fire to register my objection to conduct that I find hateful so that the media and our elites will kowtow to me the way that they do to Muslims? Thanks for making part of my point. .

No, and you already know this, I was saying that muzzies rioting in the streets or threatening to over some national insult like burning the Koran is more newsworthy than a bunch of bipolar losers in Oakland engaging in a tiresome ritual that makes them feel fierce and revolutionary.

In my book, Mexicans burning an American flag in the street of LA or Phoenix needs to be a picture on the front page of every newspaper in the US. It actually means something, it's a sign that the "But they are just looking for a job and to help their families" folks need to see. Those idiots in Oakland are utterly irrelevant. They are basically homeless people with a pastime.

Arroyo_Doble
01-31-2012, 11:46 AM
I play Trivia with "the left" on Wednesdays. They aren't anarchist idiots ...

That is strange. A good friend of mine is a Free Market Anarchist. He is considered as far right as it gets.

When I think of anarchists, I think of the far right.

On Edit: He is not an idiot, though. He is a PHd in economics. I suppose you can be an educated idiot but he is a very nice person with little or no hostility. He just believes, with a religious fervor, in the infallibility of the Market.

Novaheart
01-31-2012, 11:47 AM
My point is that there are no consequences for these guys. .

First Amendment protects them from consequences as long as they own the flag and aren't putting anyone else in danger or damaging public property.

I do think it would be funny if you could get on the news burning an anarchist in effigy.

Novaheart
01-31-2012, 11:48 AM
That is strange. A good friend of mine is a Free Market Anarchist. He is considered as far right as it gets.

When I think of anarchists, I think of the far right.

I just think of idiots in ninja outfits with a confusing logo.

Arroyo_Doble
01-31-2012, 11:50 AM
I just think of idiots in ninja outfits with a confusing logo.

I think of Austrians in ties trying to convince Pinochet to let the Market decide.

Novaheart
01-31-2012, 11:52 AM
He just believes, with a religious fervor, in the infallibility of the Market.

There isn't a huge difference between believing that and believing that nothing matters. The difference between a Wall Street Speculator with a house on Fire Island and a person worrying about his 401k is that the Wall Street guy isn't afraid to not pay his mortgage for a couple of months.

Odysseus
01-31-2012, 11:58 AM
No, and you already know this, I was saying that muzzies rioting in the streets or threatening to over some national insult like burning the Koran is more newsworthy than a bunch of bipolar losers in Oakland engaging in a tiresome ritual that makes them feel fierce and revolutionary.
In other words, it's the consequences of the national insult, rather than the insult itself. We're saying the same thing. I want there to be consequences for burning the flag. I don't want to riot, or tear down our society, in fact I want to preserve it, and one of the ways to do that is to remove those whose stated goal is its destruction.


In my book, Mexicans burning an American flag in the street of LA or Phoenix needs to be a picture on the front page of every newspaper in the US. It actually means something, it's a sign that the "But they are just looking for a job and to help their families" folks need to see.
Agreed.

Those idiots in Oakland are utterly irrelevant. They are basically homeless people with a pastime.
No, they're actually not homeless. These are affluent punks who are playing at being revolutionaries. They're today's Weather Underground and SDS. They're Bill Ayers, Bernadine Dohrn and, somewhere in the mix, the next Barrack Obama.

First Amendment protects them from consequences as long as they own the flag and aren't putting anyone else in danger or damaging public property.

I do think it would be funny if you could get on the news burning an anarchist in effigy.
They stole the flag from the building.

I think of Austrians in ties trying to convince Pinochet to let the Market decide.
And it worked marvelously well. Chile had the highest GDP in Latin America.

Arroyo_Doble
01-31-2012, 12:03 PM
There isn't a huge difference between believing that and believing that nothing matters.

You are talking about nihilists.

Novaheart
01-31-2012, 12:04 PM
They stole the flag from the building.
.

Well, that's a horse of a different color.... and also explains the masks.

Odysseus
01-31-2012, 04:53 PM
Well, that's a horse of a different color.... and also explains the masks.

The masks weren't worn because they were thieves, they were worn because these clowns think that they are playing Zorro, and that fighting the man entails risks. Of course, whenever those risks are realized, and they end up jailed or teargassed, they're the first ones to scream bloody murder, because they are gutless cowards who ultimately know that nothing will happen to them.