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View Full Version : These Catholic Bishops make me FURIOUS



Carol
02-14-2012, 09:17 PM
link (http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002311328)


Star Member HockeyMom (7,426 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore


These Catholic Bishops make me FURIOUS

Last edited Tue Feb 14, 2012, 07:23 PM USA/ET - Edit history (1)
I parted company with the Church at 15 years old. So why do I, and especially my daughters, have to be FORCED to live under THEIR rules? YOUR religous rights END where MINE begin. What can't they understand about this? They have no right to tell me, my daughter, or anyone else who doesn't share their beliefs, how they must live their lives. I, and other women, including my daughter, will have as many children as SHE and her husband decides, NOT CATHOLIC RELIGION. If she wants to prevent children from being conceived and uses BC, she has THAT RIGHT in a country where there is separation of church and state. No Church, Government, or Politician has the right to tell her and her husband how many, or IF ANY, children to have.

My older daughter is a lesbian who is engaged to marry in NY. YOUR church doesn't have to marry her, BUT you do not have the right to tell her she cannot marry. She doesn't belong to YOUR RELIGION and will have a CIVIL Marriage CONTRACT, which is just as valid a marriage as any straight couple who doesn't marry in a church.

If you believe in their faith, that is your business, but it is EVERYBODY'S business when they try to impose their beliefs on ALL PEOPLE.
So Hockeymom..........the Catholic Church is FORCING you to work for them?

First of all....the Catholic Church is NOT imposing their beliefs on EVERYONE else.....they just don't want to be forced to support something that is against their beliefs that they have about the sanctity of life.

It is you HOCKEYMOM that wants to impose YOUR BELIEFS one everyone, including the Catholic Church.


Star Member gratuitous (47,476 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore
3. IF, and that's IF, they believe what they're saying

The Bishops have no choice but to be forceful advocates for their position, as does anyone who believes they're 100% in the right.

The mystifying thing to me is why so many people sign onto the Bishops' framing of this issue. I suppose I can understand other Catholics, but popular media outlets aren't Catholic (I don't think), and yet, they present the Bishops' argument as if it were Holy Writ, not to be questioned, instead of just one position (and a minority position at that) out of many in the arena of ideas.

My beef is with the talking chuckleheads who can't figure this out, aided and abetted by cynical political types taking advantage of the situation to pretend that there's some First Amendment violation going on.

we can do it (3,676 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore
6. Catholic Bishops and Funduhmentalist Bigots Make Me Sick

they need to keep their shit to themselves..they have the freedom to have their kooky ideas, we should have the freedom from it.

Star Member Aerows (6,702 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore
8. They and the GOP

have crapped in their proverbial mess kit over this issue and don't realize it yet. The fact that women take it so that they don't get pregnant and therefore can't have abortions, has exposed them as not being anywhere near concerned about "pro-life". The fact that they don't want birth control for women whom have health issues for which birth control can prevent pain, complications or surgery reveals that they don't care about women's health.

What it has revealed is that they don't care about anything other than placing women under the thumb of men, and do not care about medical privacy, medical care, or patient/doctor confidentiality unless it's for men. If it's for men, then everyone needs to shut up and let men run things and tend to their own medical affairs.

I don't think either group realizes the enormity of what their message has turned out to be, and it has soured many women on both religion and the GOP.

djones520
02-14-2012, 09:23 PM
I am not a fan of Catholicism period. But I've got their backs 100% on this issue.

DUmmies got themselves a big issue with trying to see why there is outrage over something. They gotta stop it with this "Religion says it's bad, so it MUST BE GOOD!" bullshit.

JB
02-14-2012, 09:27 PM
...they just don't want to be forced to support something that is against their beliefs that they have about the sanctity of life.I'm going to re-quote this.

Hockeymom has no grasp of the issue.

Chuck58
02-14-2012, 09:42 PM
I'll just turn this comment around.

Hockey Mom said: "YOUR religous rights END where MINE begin. What can't they understand about this?"

Well Mom, your religious rights end where their's begin. What can't YOU understand about that?

Their hospitals, their charities, their schools, et al. Why should they surrender their beliefs to please you? If you work for them, abide by their beliefs or find another job. If you choose to go to one of their hospitals, accept the rules and regulations of that hospital, or go to another. It's simple.

If you want to send your kid to a Catholic School, there are rules pertaining to their religion that you'll have to accept, or just find another school.

Dan D. Doty
02-15-2012, 01:45 AM
It seems more like the Moonbats believe their need for entitlements some how override the Bill Of Rights.
Free birth control more important then the 1st Amendment.

No one here is being denied the use of birth control, what is happening is people are being forced to go against their own religous beliefs so someone else doesn't have to pay for it.

I've seen Left-Wing forums and blogs that have suggested the Catholic Bishops should be thrown in prison because they've spoken out against Catholic businesses, Universities, and hospitals being forced to provide free birth control for their employees.

It is indeed a sad, sad day in America when someone suggest that people should be imprisoned for freedom of speech and freedom of religion.

Moonbats respect civil liberties ... until they get in the way of something they want, then its out the window they go along with anyone who told them ' no '.

The Dark Storm is here kids, heed my advice below.

NJCardFan
02-15-2012, 01:54 AM
they need to keep their shit to themselves..they have the freedom to have their kooky ideas, we should have the freedom from it.
Funny one of the DUmmies says this considering that they believe their kooky ideas should be sacrosanct.

Lanie
02-15-2012, 08:51 AM
I'm fine with the compromise of exempting Catholic schools and church schools and allowing insurance to pay for things. What I'm not fine with is the bishops saying they won't compromise, like they get a say so in it. This isn't a theocracy.

What they really want is for birth control to be illegal. There's no chance of that happening, but the fact that they feel it should be is repulsive and NO that doesn't represent the Catholic Church. Most Catholics take birth control.

Carol
02-15-2012, 09:33 AM
So Lanie....do you really think that the insurance companies are going to give birth control for FREE?

If you think so you're wrong. SOMEONE will pay for it. It will simply be built into the contracts that they make with the companies/organizations they insure. So the Catholic Church WILL be paying for the birth control.

Just because Obama claims that they will not be paying for it doesn't make it so.

And just because "most Catholics" take birth control doesn't mean that the Church needs to change and cover it when their position has been the same for hundreds of years.

The Catholic Church forms their opinions and beliefs based on the Bible........NOT what people decide what they WANT to do based on what society rationalizes and justifies as being OK to do.

This ISN'T even about birth control.........it's about the Government telling the Church that they need to cover BC. It's the government sticking their nose in where they legally don't belong.

Only leftists who are applauding this because it fits with their abortion and birth control religion are saying that this is about birth control and "controlling a woman's body".

AmPat
02-15-2012, 09:55 AM
I'm fine with the compromise of exempting Catholic schools and church schools and allowing insurance to pay for things. What I'm not fine with is the bishops saying they won't compromise, like they get a say so in it. This isn't a theocracy.

What they really want is for birth control to be illegal. There's no chance of that happening, but the fact that they feel it should be is repulsive and NO that doesn't represent the Catholic Church. Most Catholics take birth control.
You should not be. The real "compromise" is the Constitution. O Blah Blah the Magnificent doesn't have the right or authority to dictate these laws from his Constitutionally restricted perch. He is supposed to know this as he is a Constitutional Law Professor you know?:rolleyes:

noonwitch
02-15-2012, 09:57 AM
So Lanie....do you really think that the insurance companies are going to give birth control for FREE?

If you think so you're wrong. SOMEONE will pay for it. It will simply be built into the contracts that they make with the companies/organizations they insure. So the Catholic Church WILL be paying for the birth control.

Just because Obama claims that they will not be paying for it doesn't make it so.

And just because "most Catholics" take birth control doesn't mean that the Church needs to change and cover it when their position has been the same for hundreds of years.

The Catholic Church forms their opinions and beliefs based on the Bible........NOT what people decide what they WANT to do based on what society rationalizes and justifies as being OK to do.

This ISN'T even about birth control.........it's about the Government telling the Church that they need to cover BC. It's the government sticking their nose in where they legally don't belong.

Only leftists who are applauding this because it fits with their abortion and birth control religion are saying that this is about birth control and "controlling a woman's body".

This is how it will happen, it'll be like some medicaid plans in Michigan, which purchases their coverage for medicaid recipients from private sector insurance companies. Some plans don't cover psychotropic medications for people with psychiatric conditions. So medicaid purchases prescription coverage from a second company.

They will do the same thing with the birth control coverage, so that the Catholic Church or whatever other group objects can opt out of paying for something that they find so offensive. The issue at that point would be who is the broker for the prescription coverage, the employer, employee or the government? My guess is some enterprising businessman will offer people prescription coverage for contraception at such a low price that the employee will be able to cover it. The pill is not very expensive, compared to a lot of other medications. There are also sometimes legitimate reasons for it to be prescribed beyond contraception, having to do with icky female functions that no one here really wants to read about.

michaelsean
02-15-2012, 12:33 PM
I'm fine with the compromise of exempting Catholic schools and church schools and allowing insurance to pay for things. What I'm not fine with is the bishops saying they won't compromise, like they get a say so in it. This isn't a theocracy.

What they really want is for birth control to be illegal. There's no chance of that happening, but the fact that they feel it should be is repulsive and NO that doesn't represent the Catholic Church. Most Catholics take birth control.

It doesn't matter what most Catholics do. The Church establishes the rules, and you choose whether you want to be a part of that. It's not a democracy. The bishops don't need to compromise. This isn't something they all of a sudden announced this year. It has been a part of their doctrine for a long time.

I'd be intersted to hear where you heard they wanted birth control to be illegal. When is the last time you heard the Catholic Church speak publicly about birth control?

Chuck58
02-15-2012, 03:38 PM
It isn't about birth control being illegal for everyone. This fight is about the Catholic Church and its various institutions, charities and so on not providing it, which is their right at least as I see it.

It isn't like there aren't other hospitals, charities etc that people can use, who will provide birth control if that's such an overwhelming issue.

I see this as another attack on religion itself. The Catholic Church is the biggest and most powerful in America. Break it and the rest will go down like dominoes.

Lanie
02-15-2012, 04:41 PM
It doesn't matter what most Catholics do. The Church establishes the rules, and you choose whether you want to be a part of that. It's not a democracy. The bishops don't need to compromise. This isn't something they all of a sudden announced this year. It has been a part of their doctrine for a long time.

I'd be intersted to hear where you heard they wanted birth control to be illegal. When is the last time you heard the Catholic Church speak publicly about birth control?

They don't have to compromise as far as doctrine goes.

However, they need to grow up and recognize that they have no say so over government affairs.

The idea of wanting birth control to be illegal isn't something I know for 100% certainty. However, the fact that they're not happy with the religious schools and hospitals being exempt tells me a lot. Truth is they want everybody to be "exempt." What else do you think their "We won't compromise" thing means? I think it's arrogant that they think Obama needs to compromise with them at all. The church does not run this country.

Lanie
02-15-2012, 04:45 PM
So Lanie....do you really think that the insurance companies are going to give birth control for FREE?

If you think so you're wrong. SOMEONE will pay for it. It will simply be built into the contracts that they make with the companies/organizations they insure. So the Catholic Church WILL be paying for the birth control.

Just because Obama claims that they will not be paying for it doesn't make it so.

And just because "most Catholics" take birth control doesn't mean that the Church needs to change and cover it when their position has been the same for hundreds of years.

The Catholic Church forms their opinions and beliefs based on the Bible........NOT what people decide what they WANT to do based on what society rationalizes and justifies as being OK to do.

This ISN'T even about birth control.........it's about the Government telling the Church that they need to cover BC. It's the government sticking their nose in where they legally don't belong.

Only leftists who are applauding this because it fits with their abortion and birth control religion are saying that this is about birth control and "controlling a woman's body".

I don't like the current healthcare plan, but it's here. It's not fair to tell women that their birth control pills won't be covered because *some* people don't like it.

And newsflash, Catholics have been paying for what they don't approve of. Many Catholics adopted beliefs against the death penalty thanks to the opinion of Pope John Paul II. They were still FORCED to pay to put people to death. It wasn't seen as a persecution toward Catholics. It was seen as everybody pitching in. Meanwhile, Quakers have a belief against war, any type of war. They were still FORCED to pay this one. No righty came forward showing that they cared about the religious beliefs of Quakers on this one.

We're all paying for what we don't approve of. Catholics aren't special.

michaelsean
02-15-2012, 05:31 PM
They don't have to compromise as far as doctrine goes.

However, they need to grow up and recognize that they have no say so over government affairs.

The idea of wanting birth control to be illegal isn't something I know for 100% certainty. However, the fact that they're not happy with the religious schools and hospitals being exempt tells me a lot. Truth is they want everybody to be "exempt." What else do you think their "We won't compromise" thing means? I think it's arrogant that they think Obama needs to compromise with them at all. The church does not run this country.

They aren't asking for control over government affairs, just their own. How don't you get that? Using your logic, the government could ban going to church on Sundays, and protesting that would trying to have say-so over government affairs. The government came and stepped on their toes, not the other way around. The fact that you put Obama's authority ahead of the Constitution is frightening. The Constitution trumps the desires of whoever happens to be holding office. Objecting to someone ignoring the Constitution is not having say-so over how the country is run. That say-so was written over 200 years ago, and they are just pointing it out.

And while we are at it, where does the government derive the authority to tell anyone they have to cover anything?

Chuck58
02-15-2012, 05:40 PM
They aren't asking for control over government affairs, just their own. How don't you get that? Using your logic, the government could ban going to church on Sundays, and protesting that would trying to have say-so over government affairs. The government came and stepped on their toes, not the other way around. The fact that you put Obama's authority ahead of the Constitution is frightening. The Constitution trumps the desires of whoever happens to be holding office. Objecting to someone ignoring the Constitution is not having say-so over how the country is run. That say-so was written over 200 years ago, and they are just pointing it out.

And while we are at it, where does the government derive the authority to tell anyone they have to cover anything?

Be patient. It could be coming. After all, all those people gathered together could qualify as a health issue. What if one of them is in the the first stages of some communicable disease - the flu or something?

NJCardFan
02-15-2012, 05:53 PM
They don't have to compromise as far as doctrine goes.

However, they need to grow up and recognize that they have no say so over government affairs.


Nice of you to say this considering you believe that the government should have a say in Catholic affairs.

Dan D. Doty
02-15-2012, 08:03 PM
The church does not run this country.

Nor does the country run the church; that's why we have a 1st Amendment and you can't force anyone to go against their religous beliefs because the States tells them to.

JB
02-15-2012, 09:47 PM
However, they need to grow up and recognize that they have no say so over government affairs. I think it's arrogant that they think Obama needs to compromise with them at all. The church does not run this country.

Catholics aren't special.Whoa. Take a breath there from all the Catholic hate. We're used to it enough but slow down there.

Do you know that the Amish and the Christian Scientists (folks that don't believe in medicine like you and I do) have been exempt from the Barry healthcare rules? That means they don't have to provide healthcare to anyone that works for them, is associated with them, etc...

You did know this, right? Maybe Catholics aren't special and don't run the country but it looks like the Amish and the CS do. ;)

djones520
02-15-2012, 09:53 PM
Whoa. Take a breath there from all the Catholic hate. We're used to it enough but slow down there.

Do you know that the Amish and the Christian Scientists (folks that don't believe in medicine like you and I do) have been exempt from the Barry healthcare rules? That means they don't have to provide healthcare to anyone that works for them, is associated with them, etc...

You did know this, right? Maybe Catholics aren't special and don't run the country but it looks like the Amish and the CS do. ;)

Not that I doubt you, but do you have a link or something to back it up?

Rockntractor
02-15-2012, 10:33 PM
Not that I doubt you, but do you have a link or something to back it up?

It was talked about at length when the bill was passed, Islam was also given a pass.
http://counterjihadreport.com/2012/02/11/appeasing-islam-has-become-a-us-infatuation-sharia-exempts-muslims-from-obamacare/

Lanie
02-15-2012, 11:07 PM
They aren't asking for control over government affairs, just their own. How don't you get that? Using your logic, the government could ban going to church on Sundays, and protesting that would trying to have say-so over government affairs. The government came and stepped on their toes, not the other way around. The fact that you put Obama's authority ahead of the Constitution is frightening. The Constitution trumps the desires of whoever happens to be holding office. Objecting to someone ignoring the Constitution is not having say-so over how the country is run. That say-so was written over 200 years ago, and they are just pointing it out.

And while we are at it, where does the government derive the authority to tell anyone they have to cover anything?

Nobody is saying you can't go to church. They're simply saying that if your group is not religious affiliated, then it still pays the taxes. Just like Quakers still had to pay taxes for war, Catholics still have to pay taxes for birth control. You can't make everybody happy all of the time. We're already exempting hospitals and schools with a religious affiliation. I'm sure any other organization or doctor's office will also qualify if they're a Catholic one.

Lanie
02-15-2012, 11:09 PM
Nice of you to say this considering you believe that the government should have a say in Catholic affairs.

It's about taxes, not Catholic affairs.

Where were you righties when Catholics were objecting to the death penalty on religious grounds? Where were you all when Quakers objected to war on religious grounds. None of you all took up for their supposed right not to pay taxes on what they opposed. Don't even tell me that people here give a crap about the government making people pay taxes on what they don't want. They're all for it when the ones with a religious objection are liberal leaning.

Lanie
02-15-2012, 11:13 PM
Whoa. Take a breath there from all the Catholic hate. We're used to it enough but slow down there.

Do you know that the Amish and the Christian Scientists (folks that don't believe in medicine like you and I do) have been exempt from the Barry healthcare rules? That means they don't have to provide healthcare to anyone that works for them, is associated with them, etc...

You did know this, right? Maybe Catholics aren't special and don't run the country but it looks like the Amish and the CS do. ;)


Okay, like I said, I don't have a problem with religious schools and businesses being exempt. I do have a problem with secular businesses being exempt because oh my goodness a Catholic might work there or have to pay the taxes.

And I don't appreciate being told I hate Catholics when I am one. While the Bishops may be trying to enforce the rules, the truth the MAJORITY of Catholics don't even agree with them. Most Catholics take birth control.

Rockntractor
02-15-2012, 11:14 PM
It's about taxes, not Catholic affairs.

Where were you righties when Catholics were objecting to the death penalty on religious grounds? Where were you all when Quakers objected to war on religious grounds. None of you all took up for their supposed right not to pay taxes on what they opposed. Don't even tell me that people here give a crap about the government making people pay taxes on what they don't want. They're all for it when the ones with a religious objection are liberal leaning.

So some religious groups should be exempted on politically advantages grounds and others not, sometimes I don't understand what in the hell makes your mind work.

Lanie
02-15-2012, 11:15 PM
It was talked about at length when the bill was passed, Islam was also given a pass.
http://counterjihadreport.com/2012/02/11/appeasing-islam-has-become-a-us-infatuation-sharia-exempts-muslims-from-obamacare/

And yet I bet that Muslims will still have to pay the taxes going toward this system.

Like I said, you all are acting like the Catholics are special and they're not.

Lanie
02-15-2012, 11:16 PM
So some religious groups should be exempted on politically advantages grounds and others not, sometimes I don't understand what in the hell makes your mind work.

No. My point is that we're all paying for what we oppose in life. Instead of crying out persecution, we get over ourselves.

Your side is the side wanting special rights for your religious groups AGAIN. No surprise. The conservative side always want special rights for certain groups that nobody else has.

Rockntractor
02-15-2012, 11:20 PM
No. My point is that we're all paying for what we oppose in life. Instead of crying out persecution, we get over ourselves.

Your side is the side wanting special rights for your religious groups AGAIN. No surprise. The conservative side always want special rights for certain groups that nobody else has.

The whole health care law is bad law, all it is good for is to beat political opponents over the head with.
If this is deemed constitutional, all I have to say is the constitution is dead at that point. Enjoy your new country, you made your bed you can sleep in it!

NJCardFan
02-16-2012, 01:09 AM
It's about taxes, not Catholic affairs.

Where were you righties when Catholics were objecting to the death penalty on religious grounds? Where were you all when Quakers objected to war on religious grounds. None of you all took up for their supposed right not to pay taxes on what they opposed. Don't even tell me that people here give a crap about the government making people pay taxes on what they don't want. They're all for it when the ones with a religious objection are liberal leaning.

OK smarty. This "righty" was raised Catholic. I left the church in the early 90's for various reasons but their objection to the death penalty is just that, a position. It has no teeth. The Catholic church does not make policy in the U.S. government. They never did. Of the 44 presidents, only 1 was Catholic(JFK). The rest are protestant. So your strawman fails here. And fails miserably. As for the Quakers, really? This is the best you got? What are there, 5 Quakers? But if the government can impose this on a church run hospital, what's next? Mandating that the Catholic church should officiate gay marriages?

MrsSmith
02-16-2012, 06:44 AM
I'm fine with the compromise of exempting Catholic schools and church schools and allowing insurance to pay for things. What I'm not fine with is the bishops saying they won't compromise, like they get a say so in it. This isn't a theocracy.

What they really want is for birth control to be illegal. There's no chance of that happening, but the fact that they feel it should be is repulsive and NO that doesn't represent the Catholic Church. Most Catholics take birth control.

First, the law forces all businesses to provide insurance for their employees, or pay a possibly-illegal fine for not doing so. Therefore, every Christian business owner would be directly paying for a plan that covers abortifacient drugs, despite his or her opposition to paying for abortion. Would you want the government to walk into your life and order you, on penalty of an extra tax, to pay money that will go directly to the cause of killing unwanted cats? Especially if you happened to belong to a religion that forbade killing cats, and has forbidden it for centuries?

Second, the compromise orders private companies to provide a specific service without the right to charge for that service. If you happened to own a bakery, could the government legally order you to provide chocolate cookies to all children under the age of 6 that enter your store with parents that will not pay for chocolate cookies?

Despite the fact that many Catholics choose to break with church teachings in their private lives, do you really want to watch your government continuing to destroy the protections granted to religious beliefs by the Constitution? They've already destroyed the Christian right to free speech on the privately owned property of their churches. Now they want to force all Christians, not just Catholics, to directly support abortifacient drugs under penalty of government fines. What ever happened to the leftist whine, "If you don't like abortion, don't have one." It seems to have evolved into, "If you don't like abortion, you can just pay for mine anyway."

MrsSmith
02-16-2012, 06:50 AM
No. My point is that we're all paying for what we oppose in life. Instead of crying out persecution, we get over ourselves.

Your side is the side wanting special rights for your religious groups AGAIN. No surprise. The conservative side always want special rights for certain groups that nobody else has.

The conservative side is trying to maintain the rights given to all citizens at the foundation of the country. Among those rights is the right to not be forced by your government to directly pay for other people's choices, especially choices that are grave sins in our eyes. Yes, all of us do pay taxes, and we vote for representatives that control how that tax money is spent. That does not give our government the right to order us to purchase a product from a private company that is used to end human life, no matter how many lefties don't believe that abortion or abortifacient drugs are not wrong.

Lanie
02-16-2012, 09:08 AM
OK smarty. This "righty" was raised Catholic. I left the church in the early 90's for various reasons but their objection to the death penalty is just that, a position. It has no teeth. The Catholic church does not make policy in the U.S. government. They never did. Of the 44 presidents, only 1 was Catholic(JFK). The rest are protestant. So your strawman fails here. And fails miserably. As for the Quakers, really? This is the best you got? What are there, 5 Quakers? But if the government can impose this on a church run hospital, what's next? Mandating that the Catholic church should officiate gay marriages?

And I have no problem with Kennedy and his Catholicism. You know why? He didn't try to force it on anybody.

There are far more than just five Quakers in this country. Ever seen a Friends church? That's a Quaker church. There are also UUs, who are often against the war and the death penalty. They're being forced to pay for what they don't want to as well. Let's not forget all the Catholics who pay for the death penalty whether they agree with it or not. They also have to pay the IRS despite a very strong pro-immigrant set of ideas in the RCC.

It's been declared that Catholic ran hospitals are off the table in regards paying for birth control, so your point is moot.

All we're really talking about at this point is secular ran health insurance companies paying for birth control. The argument is that since some Catholics will be paying in their tax payer money, it's going against their religion. Well, nobody is screaming for liberal religious person's right to not pay taxes on stuff. Give me a break. If the business is Catholic ran, they don't pay for birth control.


I think instead of thinking about the feelings of a few MALE bishops here, I think you all should consider the thousands of Catholic women who don't want to be baby machines. That's what the Catholic rule actually is. It's a rule saying we can't control our bodies. By talking about controlling our bodies, I'm not talking about abortion. I'm talking about being able to keep from getting pregnant in the first place. Most women really don't want to give birth anymore after what? Two or three kids? That includes Catholic women. If all Catholic women followed the rule of Catholic church, the maternal morality rate would be high.

michaelsean
02-16-2012, 09:14 AM
Nobody is saying you can't go to church. They're simply saying that if your group is not religious affiliated, then it still pays the taxes. Just like Quakers still had to pay taxes for war, Catholics still have to pay taxes for birth control. You can't make everybody happy all of the time. We're already exempting hospitals and schools with a religious affiliation. I'm sure any other organization or doctor's office will also qualify if they're a Catholic one.

Im sorry, taxes? Where did you get taxes from?

MrsSmith
02-16-2012, 09:49 AM
And I have no problem with Kennedy and his Catholicism. You know why? He didn't try to force it on anybody.

There are far more than just five Quakers in this country. Ever seen a Friends church? That's a Quaker church. There are also UUs, who are often against the war and the death penalty. They're being forced to pay for what they don't want to as well. Let's not forget all the Catholics who pay for the death penalty whether they agree with it or not. They also have to pay the IRS despite a very strong pro-immigrant set of ideas in the RCC.

It's been declared that Catholic ran hospitals are off the table in regards paying for birth control, so your point is moot.

All we're really talking about at this point is secular ran health insurance companies paying for birth control. The argument is that since some Catholics will be paying in their tax payer money, it's going against their religion. Well, nobody is screaming for liberal religious person's right to not pay taxes on stuff. Give me a break. If the business is Catholic ran, they don't pay for birth control.


I think instead of thinking about the feelings of a few MALE bishops here, I think you all should consider the thousands of Catholic women who don't want to be baby machines. That's what the Catholic rule actually is. It's a rule saying we can't control our bodies. By talking about controlling our bodies, I'm not talking about abortion. I'm talking about being able to keep from getting pregnant in the first place. Most women really don't want to give birth anymore after what? Two or three kids? That includes Catholic women. If all Catholic women followed the rule of Catholic church, the maternal morality rate would be high.
Actually, since the rule includes abortifacients, you ARE talking about abortion. DUH...

Lanie
02-16-2012, 10:07 AM
Actually, since the rule includes abortifacients, you ARE talking about abortion. DUH...

Okay, I haven't been a zealous pro-choice activist in years and I'm rusty on my activist vocabulary.

What are abortiacients? Do you mean the abortion pill, the morning after pill, or regular birth control? I know there's a belief that birth control pills kill babies because it can stop a fertilized egg from implanting.

Lanie
02-16-2012, 10:11 AM
Oh, and perhaps the Catholics in this country should be allowed to speak for themselves?

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/polls-suggest-republicans-losing-birth-control-battle-even-among-catholics/article2340067/?utm_medium=Feeds%3A%20RSS%2FAtom&utm_source=World&utm_content=2340067


Their howls of protest forced Mr. Obama into a slight concession last week that would require insurers, not the religious organizations themselves, to pay for employees' birth control. Several progressive Catholic figures have praised the administration for the revised mandate.


Sixty-one per cent of those surveyed said they back federally mandated contraception coverage for employers with religious affiliations, while 31 per cent are opposed.

Among Catholics, the numbers are almost identical 61 per cent in favour and 32 per cent against. Support is strong even among Catholics who go to church every week, perhaps unsurprising given a recent study that found 98 per cent of Catholic women have used birth control over the course of their lives.

If you all want to win this election, you need to learn how to truly connect with those you claim to defend.

BTW, I'm part of the 32% who is against the original mandate. Most Catholics don't even agree with me on this subject.

michaelsean
02-16-2012, 10:34 AM
Oh, and perhaps the Catholics in this country should be allowed to speak for themselves?

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/polls-suggest-republicans-losing-birth-control-battle-even-among-catholics/article2340067/?utm_medium=Feeds%3A%20RSS%2FAtom&utm_source=World&utm_content=2340067





If you all want to win this election, you need to learn how to truly connect with those you claim to defend.

BTW, I'm part of the 32% who is against the original mandate. Most Catholics don't even agree with me on this subject.

Just more irrelevance. If Catholics don't like something about the Catholic Church that is between them and the Church. And we defend what is right not necessarily what is popular. It's called principles.

And the compromise is ridiculous. They are still providing the insurance that is providing the birth contol. And I still haven't heard where the government derives the authority to tell any business or health insurance company what they must cover.

MrsSmith
02-16-2012, 11:09 AM
Okay, I haven't been a zealous pro-choice activist in years and I'm rusty on my activist vocabulary.

What are abortiacients? Do you mean the abortion pill, the morning after pill, or regular birth control? I know there's a belief that birth control pills kill babies because it can stop a fertilized egg from implanting.

That is more than a belief, it is a fact. It is also a fact that IUD's stop implantation, yet are not considered abortifactient by the left. And yes, I also mean both the abortion pill and the morning after pill. It is nearly beyond belief that our government is currently ordering us to pay to murder children or face paying extra taxes for the "privilege" of refusing health care insurance. :rolleyes:

AmPat
02-16-2012, 11:22 AM
That is more than a belief, it is a fact. It is also a fact that IUD's stop implantation, yet are not considered abortifactient by the left. And yes, I also mean both the abortion pill and the morning after pill. It is nearly beyond belief that our government is currently ordering us to pay to murder children or face paying extra taxes for the "privilege" of refusing health care insurance. :rolleyes:
But to a lib, ignoring this tyranny is ok and in fact to be justified. It forces a favorite liberal target to do something beyond the scope of authority granted in the Constitution while also sticking it to those hated Christians. A perfect twofer for libertards.

MrsSmith
02-16-2012, 11:29 AM
But to a lib, ignoring this tyranny is ok and in fact to be justified. It forces a favorite liberal target to do something beyond the scope of authority granted in the Constitution while also sticking it to those hated Christians. A perfect twofer for libertards.

And the fact is that this strikes at the religious rights of all Christians, not just Catholics. How can the government order all Christian employers to provide insurance that includes the murder of children? How can they order all Christians to buy insurance that provides this? And then enforce their unconstitutional order with an unconstitutional tax.

AmPat
02-16-2012, 11:42 AM
And the fact is that this strikes at the religious rights of all Christians, not just Catholics. How can the government order all Christian employers to provide insurance that includes the murder of children? How can they order all Christians to buy insurance that provides this? And then enforce their unconstitutional order with an unconstitutional tax.
If this succeeds, it is over the remnants of that once precious document that made us a nation of laws with limited government. This isn't "government" doing this, it is a Dictator In Chief mandating it.:mad: All hail the Magnificent O Blah Blah, Pharaoh most benevolent, Giver of Good, provider of bread.:smileyworship: :rolleyes: Be proud of your God liberals, this is where he is taking us.