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Janice
02-17-2012, 12:33 AM
http://i.imgur.com/agMTJ.jpg

Chris Christie defends lower flags for Whitney Houston (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0212/72960.html)

New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie on Wednesday strongly defended his decision to have the state’s flags flown at half-staff for singer Whitney Houston.

Christie had been criticized for ordering flags at state government buildings to be lowered on Saturday, the day that Houston’s funeral services would be held in Newark.

His order was criticized both by those who thought that the honor should be reserved for recently deceased soldiers, first-responders and elected officials, and by those who thought it was wrong to honor an alleged drug addict.

Christie said he didn’t believe that Houston’s history of substance abuse “forfeited the good things she did.”

MORE ...

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What?? The good things she did? Who in Sam Hill is Cristie Cream pandering to now? First we have ships named after Giffords, then Flags lowered for Houston. Must every American tradition be deconstructed and trivialized now? I thought that the lowering of the flag to half-mast is a ritual reserved for those who died unselfishly serving others or something like that. But this ... By this logic we should also do the same for Aretha.. Sinatra.. Billie Holliday.. I mean, whats next? Snoop Dog?

Rockntractor
02-17-2012, 12:45 AM
As many times as I have heard her beautiful rendition of the national anthem, I think it is appropriate.

Adam Wood
02-17-2012, 01:26 AM
Flags were lowered for Michael Jackson (http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/31557757/ns/today-entertainment/t/flags-half-staff-jacksons-hometown/). They were lowered for Joe Paterno (http://www.lehighvalleylive.com/breaking-news/index.ssf/2012/01/gov_tom_corbett_orders_flags_t.html). IIRC, they were lowered here in Nashville, if not state-wide, when Johnny Cash died. While this may be over-use of the half-mast, I don't think it's out of line relative to other actions.

Perhaps the procedure should be reined-in a bit. I remember a couple of decades ago my brother flew into town. He noticed that the flags were half-mast and asked me who died. I had no clue. Later, upon research, they had been ordered lowered because some guy who had been Postmaster General for six months five years earlier had died.




In this circumstance, in this time, I don't think it's inappropriate. But maybe we should examine the whole practice a bit before the next time comes along.

Novaheart
02-17-2012, 02:01 AM
Cruella tells me that the Phelps plan to pciket her funeral. Wouldn't it be funny if some of her less inhibited fans from some of the less attractive parts of New Jersey decided to take out the Phelps clan, and no one will see a thing?

Adam Wood
02-17-2012, 02:04 AM
Cruella tells me that the Phelps plan to pciket her funeral. Wouldn't it be funny if some of her less inhibited fans from some of the less attractive parts of New Jersey decided to take out the Phelps clan, and no one will see a thing?Unavailable for comment:

http://i39.tinypic.com/2yoz4eh.jpg

Novaheart
02-17-2012, 02:10 AM
What?? The good things she did?

• I am not a fan of Houston so I have no idea what good things she did. She was a celebrity and a "hometown girl" so I would expect that New jersey would lower the flag the same way that Mississippi probably did when Elvis died.




Who in Sam Hill is Cristie Cream pandering to now?

• Oddly, Christie would appear to be pandering to his constituency, which contrary to GOP models, is not simply those who voted for him.




First we have ships named after Giffords,

Giffords was a US Congressman who was shot in the course of being a Congressman. You also have a ship out there named for George Bush, is there a problem with that?




Must every American tradition be deconstructed and trivialized now?

Your assumption would need to be that flags are only lowered and ships are only named for heros. That is simply not the case. Your assumption is wrong, leading to your reaction being wrong. You are welcome to wish that these honors only be reserved for firemen who run into burning buildings to save children, or soldiers who actually do something heroic but thus far that limitation is not applied.

mike128
02-17-2012, 02:17 AM
I'll never be able to figure out what people mean when they say Whitney Houston had a 'beautiful voice.' Her voice hurt my ears and all her songs were terrible! I'm serious. I always had to turn off the radio in the late 1980's everytime one of her lousy songs came on. I now have to turn off the radio, or change the TV channel every time there is a news report on Whitney Houston's death, because they play clips of those awful songs over and over again.

I do think it's very sad the way Whitney Houston ended up dying, and I feel very bad for her family. But as far as that noise pollution that she tortured me with in the late 1980's goes, good riddance!

As far as flying the flag at half mast goes, that should be reserved for self-sacrificing national heroes, not Michael Jackson or Whitney Houston.

noonwitch
02-17-2012, 09:36 AM
When Aretha Franklin does die, which I hope is not for many more years, I'm pretty sure that whoever is Governor of Michigan at the time, from either party, will lower the flags to honor her. Even if the Governor doesn't, the city of Detroit will do so.

I think Christie is doing the right thing here.

Novaheart
02-17-2012, 12:23 PM
When Aretha Franklin does die, which I hope is not for many more years, I'm pretty sure that whoever is Governor of Michigan at the time, from either party, will lower the flags to honor her. Even if the Governor doesn't, the city of Detroit will do so.

I think Christie is doing the right thing here.

I think Roberta Flack makes Aretha Franklin sound like a scalded mule.

Janice
02-17-2012, 12:55 PM
I can understand the state flag, but the US Flag ... not so much.

Guess the nation lost reverence a long time ago so it doesnt really matter. Its all in the eyes of the beholder now. At least its only on the state level ... so far.

Odysseus
02-17-2012, 01:18 PM
Your assumption would need to be that flags are only lowered and ships are only named for heros. That is simply not the case. Your assumption is wrong, leading to your reaction being wrong. You are welcome to wish that these honors only be reserved for firemen who run into burning buildings to save children, or soldiers who actually do something heroic but thus far that limitation is not applied.

Do you ever bother to look anything up before you speak?


The flag, when flown at half-staff, should be first hoisted to the peak for an instant and then lowered to the half-staff position. The flag should be again raised to the peak before it is lowered for the day. On Memorial Day the flag should be displayed at half-staff until noon only, then raised to the top of the staff. By order of the President, the flag shall be flown at half-staff upon the death of principal figures of the United States Government and the Governor of a State, territory, or possession, as a mark of respect to their memory. In the event of the death of other officials or foreign dignitaries, the flag is to be displayed at half-staff according to Presidential instructions or orders, or in accordance with recognized customs or practices not inconsistent with law. In the event of the death of a present or former official of the government of any State, territory, or possession of the United States, or the death of a member of the Armed Forces from any State, territory, or possession who dies while serving on active duty, the Governor of that State, territory, or possession may proclaim that the National flag shall be flown at half-staff, and the same authority is provided to the Mayor of the District of Columbia with respect to present or former officials of the District of Columbia and members of the Armed Forces from the District of Columbia. The flag shall be flown at half-staff 30 days from the death of the President or a former President; 10 days from the day of death of the Vice President, the Chief Justice or a retired Chief Justice of the United States, or the Speaker of the House of Representatives; from the day of death until interment of an Associate Justice of the Supreme Court, a Secretary of an executive or military department, a former Vice President, or the Governor of a State, territory, or possession; and on the day of death and the following day for a Member of Congress. The flag shall be flown at half-staff on Peace Officers Memorial Day, unless that day is also Armed Forces Day. As used in this subsection —
http://www.ushistory.org/betsy/more/micks.htm



In other words, lowering the flag for celebrities, buddies of the governor and housepets is not authorized.

mike128
02-17-2012, 07:06 PM
I think Roberta Flack makes Aretha Franklin sound like a scalded mule.
I have to agree. Roberta Flack has a great voice.

But to honor Whitney Houston for all that noise pollution she caused over the years by lowering the American flag is just ridiculous.

Novaheart
02-17-2012, 09:37 PM
I can understand the state flag, but the US Flag ... not so much.

Guess the nation lost reverence a long time ago so it doesnt really matter. Its all in the eyes of the beholder now. At least its only on the state level ... so far.

Just so we're clear here, do you object to lowering the flag for alcohol/drug addicts?

RedGrouse
02-17-2012, 09:46 PM
Flags were lowered for Michael Jackson (http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/31557757/ns/today-entertainment/t/flags-half-staff-jacksons-hometown/). They were lowered for Joe Paterno (http://www.lehighvalleylive.com/breaking-news/index.ssf/2012/01/gov_tom_corbett_orders_flags_t.html). IIRC, they were lowered here in Nashville, if not state-wide, when Johnny Cash died. While this may be over-use of the half-mast, I don't think it's out of line relative to other actions.

Perhaps the procedure should be reined-in a bit. I remember a couple of decades ago my brother flew into town. He noticed that the flags were half-mast and asked me who died. I had no clue. Later, upon research, they had been ordered lowered because some guy who had been Postmaster General for six months five years earlier had died.




In this circumstance, in this time, I don't think it's inappropriate. But maybe we should examine the whole practice a bit before the next time comes along.

Joe Paterno did serve in the military. I don't understand about flags being half mast for celebrities. I am no fan of Chris Christie.

Novaheart
02-17-2012, 09:46 PM
Do you ever bother to look anything up before you speak?

Yeah, do you?

Christie had been criticized for ordering flags at state government buildings to be lowered on Saturday, the day that Houstonís funeral services would be held in Newark.

Adam Wood
02-17-2012, 10:09 PM
Joe Paterno did serve in the military. I don't understand about flags being half mast for celebrities. I am no fan of Chris Christie.I was unaware of that, although his age should have been a giveaway, since almost everyone of that age and male served in the military in some capacity.

djones520
02-26-2012, 11:38 PM
Yeah, do you?

Christie had been criticized for ordering flags at state government buildings to be lowered on Saturday, the day that Houstonís funeral services would be held in Newark.

Doesn't matter where it is done at. It is the National Flag, not the State Flag, so he has to follow the National guidance on it.

Getting into the legalities of it, I'm sure he could have made an executive order making her an honorary state government official, and all the I's would have been dotted.

I don't know if he did that, but even if not I doubt anyone is going to attempt to enforce the U.S. Code.

Novaheart
02-27-2012, 12:00 AM
Doesn't matter where it is done at. It is the National Flag, not the State Flag, so he has to follow the National guidance on it.

Getting into the legalities of it, I'm sure he could have made an executive order making her an honorary state government official, and all the I's would have been dotted.

I don't know if he did that, but even if not I doubt anyone is going to attempt to enforce the U.S. Code.

As I read it, the code that Ody was referring to addresses only federal facilities. It defines the conditions under which a governor may make a proclamation which will affect federal offices and facilities. Christie's proclamation only pertained to state offices and facilities.

...........the National flag flown at any Federal installation or facility in the area
http://www.ushistory.org/betsy/more/micks.htm

I really don't think that Governor Christie would step in it by not having his consigliere check it out. But I could be wrong.

djones520
02-27-2012, 12:12 AM
As I read it, the code that Ody was referring to addresses only federal facilities. It defines the conditions under which a governor may make a proclamation which will affect federal offices and facilities. Christie's proclamation only pertained to state offices and facilities.

...........the National flag flown at any Federal installation or facility in the area
http://www.ushistory.org/betsy/more/micks.htm

I really don't think that Governor Christie would step in it by not having his consigliere check it out. But I could be wrong.

http://uscode.house.gov/download/pls/04C1.txt

Check out the actual US Code. Makes no deliniation about where.

Retread
02-27-2012, 11:51 PM
Check out the actual US Code. Makes no deliniation about where.

And never has - but it should be well known by now that violating flag code and etiquette is never again going to be a punishable defense.

Somebody should read the code to Christie.

Janice
02-28-2012, 12:24 AM
http://i.imgur.com/Kh0Qp.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/y9nof.jpg
What flag?

http://i.imgur.com/N51cw.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/VGkNU.jpg
We dont need no stinkin flag!

http://i.imgur.com/OuEne.jpg

Do not judge me by the co I keep.

Zeus
02-28-2012, 01:46 AM
• I am not a fan of Houston so I have no idea what good things she did. She was a celebrity and a "hometown girl" so I would expect that New jersey would lower the flag the same way that Mississippi probably did when Elvis died.



• Oddly, Christie would appear to be pandering to his constituency, which contrary to GOP models, is not simply those who voted for him.



Giffords was a US Congressman who was shot in the course of being a Congressman. You also have a ship out there named for George Bush, is there a problem with that?



Your assumption would need to be that flags are only lowered and ships are only named for heros. That is simply not the case. Your assumption is wrong, leading to your reaction being wrong. You are welcome to wish that these honors only be reserved for firemen who run into burning buildings to save children, or soldiers who actually do something heroic but thus far that limitation is not applied.

I wasn't aware that Giffords was a former US President or that Houston was either, or a govt official or a first responder ?

Why must Liberals insist on destroying standards for Decency, Decorum, Respect, Historical precedent et el ?

I myself thought Whitney was getting a bum rap for her drug problems,that is until she died from a drug OD. Are we now going to show the same level of respect for any entertainer that dies ?

Tell me is there any nonselfish act or accomplishment you hold sacred ?

Janice
02-28-2012, 02:09 AM
Why must Liberals insist on destroying standards for Decency, Decorum, Respect, Historical precedent et el ?



This is rhetorical, right?

Zeus
02-28-2012, 02:11 AM
This is rhetorical, right? It could just as well be because I doubt I'll get an straight honest answer but I would like to know.

Zeus
02-28-2012, 03:30 PM
Bump.

It just totally astounds me the number of People out in society that are void any semblance of Honor, Respect, piety or sense of responsibility.

Janice
02-28-2012, 04:18 PM
I take it you havent been watching the newest, latest greatest alternate reality in Liberal-topialand ... television. Forget about "virtues"... those are outdated. Those are so yesteryear.

Its a combination of "1984" and "bread and circuses" all rolled up into one happy little package. And now ... thanks to 0baminomics, many of us have more time than ever to explore this new "real-reality", this new "truth". (Excluding shows like National Geographic, Discovery Channel, History Channel and Documentaries.)

So get with it. Put down that book. Put down your critical thinking skills and call your cable operator. Newspeak and doublespeak never sounded so cool. :cool:

Janice
02-28-2012, 05:13 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJgWMI0hch8&feature=related

Yes, folks, that is what she said, according to an instructor at a School for the Deaf and Blind who watched the video. The video is shown at normal speed, 3/4 speed, and 1/2 speed with no banners obstructing her lips.

It should come as no surprise that she and Barack have no clue about America's reverence for, nor reference to, our flag, or that both want to eliminate all memorials and ceremonies commemorating the 9/11 attacks.

Odysseus
02-28-2012, 06:08 PM
Yeah, do you?

Christie had been criticized for ordering flags at state government buildings to be lowered on Saturday, the day that Houstonís funeral services would be held in Newark.
Wow. That's what you got from that? Seriously?

As I read it, the code that Ody was referring to addresses only federal facilities. It defines the conditions under which a governor may make a proclamation which will affect federal offices and facilities. Christie's proclamation only pertained to state offices and facilities.

...........the National flag flown at any Federal installation or facility in the area
http://www.ushistory.org/betsy/more/micks.htm

I really don't think that Governor Christie would step in it by not having his consigliere check it out. But I could be wrong.
You are wrong. The federal code covers the US flag. Had he ordered the state flag to half mast, he'd have been on solid legal ground, but the US flag may only be lowered by a governor under the circumstances stated in the code, which you managed to completely misconstrue and misinterpret.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJgWMI0hch8&feature=related

Yes, folks, that is what she said, according to an instructor at a School for the Deaf and Blind who watched the video. The video is shown at normal speed, 3/4 speed, and 1/2 speed with no banners obstructing her lips.

It should come as no surprise that she and Barack have no clue about America's reverence for, nor reference to, our flag, or that both want to eliminate all memorials and ceremonies commemorating the 9/11 attacks.

Let's hope that whoever the Republican nominee is, he has the sense to make that video a campaign ad.