PDA

View Full Version : Quran burning angers Afghans; U.S. vows probe



Odysseus
02-21-2012, 10:16 AM
February 21, 2012 2:33 AM Print Text

(CBS/AP) Updated at 8:35 a.m. ET

http://i.i.com.com/cnwk.1d/i/tim/2012/02/21/bagram_quran_protest_AP12022118438_620x350.JPG
Afghan protesters in front of Bagram Air Base during an anti-U.S. demonstration, Feb. 21, 2012. (AP)

KABUL, Afghanistan - More than 2,000 angry Afghans protested outside an American air base on Tuesday after they learned that copies of the Quran (Koran), the Muslim holy book, were burned in a pile of garbage at a sprawling U.S. military base north of Kabul.


"Die, die, foreigners!" the demonstrators shouted. Some fired rifles into the air. Others threw rocks at the gate of the base.


A CBS News crew traveled to the sprawling Bagram Air Field in Parwan province and saw the remnants of several tires which were set on fire at an entrance gate to the sprawling U.S. base, and as many as several hundred protesters were still chanting at another gate, but appeared to be dispersing.


The burning of the Quran and other religious books was unintentional, said U.S. Gen. John Allen, the top commander of American and NATO forces in Afghanistan.


The incident stoked anti-foreign sentiment that already is on the rise after a decade of war in Afghanistan and fueled the arguments of Afghans who claim foreign troops are not respectful of their culture or Islamic religion.


Early Tuesday, as word of the incident spread, about 100 demonstrators gathered outside the base. As the crowd grew, so did the outrage.


One protester, Mohammad Hakim, said if U.S. forces can't bring peace to Afghanistan, they should go home.


"They should leave Afghanistan rather than disrespecting our religion, our faith," Hakim said. "They have to leave and if next time they disrespect our religion, we will defend our holy Quran, religion and faith until the last drop of blood has left in our body."


Ahmad Zaki Zahed, chief of the provincial council, said U.S. military officials took him to a burn pit on the base where 60 to 70 books, including Qurans, were recovered. The books were used by detainees once incarcerated at the base, he said.


"Some were all burned. Some were half-burned," Zahed said, adding that he did not know exactly how many Qurans had been burned.


Zahed said five Afghans working at the pit told him that the religious books were in the garbage that two soldiers with the U.S.-led coalition transported to the pit in a truck late Monday night. When they realized the books were in the trash, the laborers quickly worked to recover them, he said.


"The laborers there showed me how their fingers were burned when they took the books out of the fire," he said.


In a statement, Allen said he had ordered an investigation and offered his apologies to the president and people of Afghanistan. He thanked local Afghan workers "who helped us identify the error, and who worked with us to immediately take corrective action."


"We are thoroughly investigating the incident and are taking steps to ensure this does not ever happen again," Allen said. "I assure you, I promise you, this was not intentional in any way."

>SNIP<

In April 2011, Afghans protesting the burning of a Quran by a Florida pastor turned deadly when gunmen in the crowd stormed a U.N. compound in the northern city of Mazar-e-Sharif and killed three staffers and four Nepalese guards.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-202_162-57381495/quran-burning-angers-afghans-u.s-pledges-probe/
__________________________________________________ _
Perhaps they should burn a few Bibles in retaliation... No, wait, they don't permit Bibles. Meanwhile, the Taliban hasn't promised to investigate the murders of the UN aid workers, and while it denies responsibility for the beheadings of two spies yesterday, they haven't promised an investigation of that, either. :rolleyes:

Novaheart
02-21-2012, 10:23 AM
Depopulate the region.

Rockntractor
02-21-2012, 10:23 AM
Perhaps they should burn a few Bibles in retaliation... No, wait, they don't permit Bibles. Meanwhile, the Taliban hasn't promised to investigate the murders of the UN aid workers, and while it denies responsibility for the beheadings of two spies yesterday, they haven't promised an investigation of that, either. :rolleyes:
A couple of grenades in the middle of the crowd would make them more agreeable!

Odysseus
02-21-2012, 10:34 AM
A couple of grenades in the middle of the crowd would make them more agreeable!

Grenades lack the necessary range. Mortars are much more effective.

BadCat
02-21-2012, 11:54 AM
Depopulate the region.

Hey, we agree on something...will wonders never cease?

BadCat
02-21-2012, 11:59 AM
Grenades lack the necessary range. Mortars are much more effective.

I was thinking more along the lines of this...

http://media.egotvonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/hydrogen_bomb.jpg

Starbuck
02-21-2012, 12:22 PM
There is no hope for these people. Their hysteria and intolerance makes them the most unpredictable and unproductive people on earth.

Even though they are dependent upon the modern world for their livelihood of selling drugs, they will simply never be able to join the modern world.

AmPat
02-21-2012, 12:40 PM
There is no hope for these people. Their hysteria and intolerance makes them the most unpredictable and unproductive people on earth.

Even though they are dependent upon the modern world for their livelihood of selling drugs, they will simply never be able to join the modern world.

Correct. We should give them the freedom they want. Freedom from "free" labor, roads, schools, terror. Just allow them the freedom to embrace that funloving Taliban group that worked so well for them in the past. Freedom to have no money or medium of trade except poppy product. Freedom to be over run and ruled back to the 7th century.

If their freedom becomes our problem, we nuke them into powder and await the next bunch of freedom lovers.

noonwitch
02-21-2012, 01:25 PM
There is no hope for these people. Their hysteria and intolerance makes them the most unpredictable and unproductive people on earth.

Even though they are dependent upon the modern world for their livelihood of selling drugs, they will simply never be able to join the modern world.


If the army had accidentally burned a bunch of Bibles at a fort in the south during the 1950s, how would the people nearby responded? Probably the same way many of them responded to Scopes/Darwin, rock music and revenuers.

There are billions of muslims in this world. I can't believe that there is no hope for any of them.

Lanie
02-21-2012, 01:32 PM
Okay, these Afghans are off their rocker. It shows a lot about t heir character to be protesting and probably threatening over the Quran.

OTOH, I can't help but think that if you know that some of the radical Muslims are like this and still choose to burn a Koran in a country full of them, then you're not making good choices.

Bailey
02-21-2012, 01:33 PM
If the army had accidentally burned a bunch of Bibles at a fort in the south during the 1950s, how would the people nearby responded? Probably the same way many of them responded to Scopes/Darwin, rock music and revenuers.

There are billions of muslims in this world. I can't believe that there is no hope for any of them.

No hope what so ever.

txradioguy
02-21-2012, 01:45 PM
Assuming this even happened.

All it takes is one local insurgent to start the RUMOR that a Koran is being burned to whip the uneducated masses into a frenzy over there.


Like in Uruzgan Province last year when the Taliban tried to claim we bayonetted a Koran. That got the locals riled up until we pointed out to the provincial elders the 30 year old soviet bayonet stuck in the Koran wasn't used by either Australian or American forces.


This is the Taliban propaganda wing yanking ISAFs chain and getting a 4 Star General to jump for them.

And yes I know they reportedly found pieces of a Koran. We found pre burnt Korans in raids last year.

Bailey
02-21-2012, 01:48 PM
Assuming this even happened.

All it takes is one local insurgent to start the RUMOR that a Koran is being burned to whip the uneducated masses into a frenzy over there.


Like in Uruzgan Province last year when the Taliban tried to claim we bayonetted a Koran. That got the locals riled up until we pointed out to the provincial elders the 30 year old soviet bayonet stuck in the Koran wasn't used by either Australian or American forces.


This is the Taliban propaganda wing yanking ISAFs chain and getting a 4 Star General to jump for them.

And yes I know they reportedly found pieces of a Koran. We found pre burnt Korans in raids last year.

I've never been to those hellholes you soilders go to but why do they get worked up so quickly? Is there faith so easlly shaken?

Starbuck
02-21-2012, 01:56 PM
If the army had accidentally burned a bunch of Bibles at a fort in the south during the 1950s, how would the people nearby responded? Probably the same way many of them responded to Scopes/Darwin, rock music and revenuers.

There are billions of muslims in this world. I can't believe that there is no hope for any of them.
There have been many Bibles burned over the years. Some of the burnings are available for viewing on UTube.

Historically, Christians have ignored such carrying-on. I guess they are clever enough to know that burning a Bible or a Koran does nothing at all to alter the truth. Then they go out and buy another Bible. Or Koran. They are sold everywhere.

Novaheart
02-21-2012, 02:29 PM
This is why I don't have any bumper stickers on my truck- because I would have it covered in stickers:

• Burn the Koran
• Deport illegal aliens
• Extirpate Islam
• Deport Amy Goodman
• Joseph Smith was not a prophet you dumbass you.
• Scientology is not a religion, you idiot.
• Have a nice day.
• To Hell with the Rays and the Bucs- don't let the door hit you in the ass.


I do have two window stickers- my beach parking sticker and my NRA sticker.

Bailey
02-21-2012, 02:33 PM
This is why I don't have any bumper stickers on my truck- because I would have it covered in stickers:

• Burn the Koran
• Deport illegal aliens
• Extirpate Islam
• Deport Amy Goodman
• Joseph Smith was not a prophet you dumbass you.
• Scientology is not a religion, you idiot.
• Have a nice day.
• To Hell with the Rays and the Bucs- don't let the door hit you in the ass.


I do have two window stickers- my beach parking sticker and my NRA sticker.



You left out your NAMBLA sticker.

Articulate_Ape
02-21-2012, 02:49 PM
If the army had accidentally burned a bunch of Bibles at a fort in the south during the 1950s, how would the people nearby responded? Probably the same way many of them responded to Scopes/Darwin, rock music and revenuers.

There are billions of muslims in this world. I can't believe that there is no hope for any of them.


Of course, there's hope for most of them, noony, but do the math. If only one half of one percent of them are batshit insane and think that allah wants them to kill for him, that's 11 million batshit insane people who think that allah wants them to kill for him. That's why I think we have bigger problem than most people are willing to realize. 11 million people can do a shitload of damage to the rest of humanity. But let's throw on some rose-colored glasses and say it's only one tenth of one percent; that's 2.2 million savages that are up to no good. Therein lies the rub.

I'm just sayin'.

txradioguy
02-21-2012, 04:30 PM
I've never been to those hellholes you soilders go to but why do they get worked up so quickly? Is there faith so easlly shaken?

No they are just that easily tricked. You're dealing with a country that has IRRC a 5% literacy rate. Everything is passed word of mouth and thus taken as the truth. The Taliban play on that with their Koran burning/desecration rumors.

Odysseus
02-21-2012, 05:20 PM
If the army had accidentally burned a bunch of Bibles at a fort in the south during the 1950s, how would the people nearby responded? Probably the same way many of them responded to Scopes/Darwin, rock music and revenuers.
Stereotype much? The Saudis and other Muslim rulers burn Bibles as a matter of course, whenever they get their hands on them. It's the preferred means of dealing with any religion but theirs. OTOH, I highly doubt that even southern segregationists would have responded to an accidental burning of Bibles by beheading someone, as the Afghans do.


There are billions of muslims in this world. I can't believe that there is no hope for any of them.
If the mullahs have their way, there isn't. Islam demands total submission, and Sharia law enforces that. It empowers the mullahs, who then get to impose their interpretation of Sharia on everyone else. Their only hope is if we win against the global jihad.

I've never been to those hellholes you soilders go to but why do they get worked up so quickly? Is there faith so easlly shaken?
The short answer is, yes. Islam has a problem with modernity that other religions lack. The Qur'an tells them that they are superior to everyone else, and that they must rule the entire world. When they were conquering everything in sight, that looked valid, but after they established their empire, they began to stagnate. Islam suppresses science, art, history and any other academic discipline that cannot be completely corrupted into Islamic doctrine. As a result, the Islamic world fell behind the west, but it was a gradual process. By the Age of Exploration, however, it was obvious, and this created a problem for Islam: If Allah wanted Islam to rule the world, and everything that happened in the world was the will of Allah, then why were westerners kicking ass? Why did Jan Sobieski beat them back at Vienna? Why did the Venetians kick their fleet to pieces at Lepanto? Why did that upstart republic in the Americas tear the Barbary Pirates a new one? How is it that the infidels could not only make better guns, but use them more effectively? This created a massive inferiority complex, which, when applied to a shame-based society instead of a guilt-based society, resulted in the behavior that we're seeing. When members of a guilt-based culture are confronted with failure or defeat, they internalize it, think about it and come back from it stronger. When members of a shame-based culture are confronted with failure or defeat, they fly into a rage. This is why whenever Islam is perceived to have been slighted, Muslims go berserk.

Of course, there's hope for most of them, noony, but do the math. If only one half of one percent of them are batshit insane and think that allah wants them to kill for him, that's 11 million batshit insane people who think that allah wants them to kill for him. That's why I think we have bigger problem than most people are willing to realize. 11 million people can do a shitload of damage to the rest of humanity. But let's throw on some rose-colored glasses and say it's only one tenth of one percent; that's 2.2 million savages that are up to no good. Therein lies the rub.

I'm just sayin'.

Most polls put the number of jihadi simpathizers in the 40-70% range, depending on the country. That's a lot of guano.

TooManyChiefs
02-21-2012, 06:42 PM
The reason these ragheads get away with this shit is were so fucking hamstrung in the region by limp-wristed liberals back home. I wonder if the guys shooting rifles in the air and throwing rocks at us are the bad guys? Hmmm.

In a better world they get blown up for doing this kinda shit.

Articulate_Ape
02-21-2012, 08:54 PM
Most polls put the number of jihadi simpathizers in the 40-70% range, depending on the country. That's a lot of guano.

You're preaching to the choir, Ody. My exercise was simply to point out to noony (or anyone else who thinks in a similar fashion that, even with wildly optimistic statistical evaluation, we have one hell of a problem. One that, if dismissed out of some naive sense of PC sensitivity, WILL destroy all that which we hold dear.

namvet
02-21-2012, 09:09 PM
we need to get outta there. let em have that shit hole

Articulate_Ape
02-21-2012, 10:06 PM
we need to get outta there. let em have that shit hole

QFT. Face it, some people just aren't worth helping.

Odysseus
02-22-2012, 12:11 AM
You're preaching to the choir, Ody. My exercise was simply to point out to noony (or anyone else who thinks in a similar fashion that, even with wildly optimistic statistical evaluation, we have one hell of a problem. One that, if dismissed out of some naive sense of PC sensitivity, WILL destroy all that which we hold dear.
Yeah, but Noony needs to know the actual numbers. We're dealing with a screwed up part of the world, and nothing that we can do will fix it, but we can adjust its attitude so that they know not to screw with us. Our leaders need to bone up on their Machiavelli.

QFT. Face it, some people just aren't worth helping.

The problem isn't that they aren't worth helping, it's that when they are left to their own devices, they harbor people who use Afghanistan as a base of operations to strike at us. Unless we are ready to commit to multi-generational nation-building, as we did in Korea and Japan, the best way to deal with them is to launch punitive expeditions that demonstrate that we are out of their league. That doesn't necessarily mean nukes, although I wouldn't take them off of the table, but it does mean going in an punishing them for harboring al Qaeda and Bin Laden. The critical lesson that our leaders failed to understand is that you have to win the war before you can implement the Marshall plan.

Hawkgirl
02-22-2012, 01:47 AM
QFT. Face it, some people just aren't worth helping.

It's not so much helping them as it stopping them.

Starbuck
02-22-2012, 09:52 AM
I remember back when "terrorist training camps" were kind of a joke. We all knew they existed, but didn't know they would result in an event such as 9/11.

No more. Leave Afghanistan or stay, we need to forever retain the ability to strike. I like the fact that we strike in Pakistan, and I am afraid that our willingness to talk with the Taliban will lead to a false sense of security and peace which in turn will lead us right back to 9/10/01.

Rockntractor
02-22-2012, 11:45 AM
By Mirwais Harooni and Hamid Shalizi

KABUL | Wed Feb 22, 2012 10:38am EST

(Reuters) - Six people were shot dead and dozens wounded in protests in Afghanistan which flared for a second day on Wednesday in several cities over the burning of copies of the Koran, Islam's holy book, at NATO's main base in the country, officials said.

The American embassy said its staff were in "lockdown" and travel had been suspended as thousands of people expressed fury over the burning, a public relations disaster for U.S.-led NATO forces fighting Taliban militants ahead of the withdrawal of foreign combat troops by the end of 2014.

The U.S. government and the American commander of NATO-led forces in Afghanistan apologized after Afghan laborers found charred copies of the Koran while collecting rubbish at the sprawling Bagram Airbase, about an hour's drive north of Kabul.

The apologies failed to contain the anger. Thousands of Afghans took to the streets again, chanting anti-American slogans and some raising white Taliban flags in the capital.

Winning the hearts and minds of Afghans is critical to efforts to defeat the Taliban. Similar incidents in the past have caused deep divisions and resentment among Afghans towards the tens of thousands of foreign troops in Afghanistan.

Seven foreign UN workers were killed during protests that raged across Afghanistan for three days in April 2011 after a U.S. pastor burned a Koran in Florida.

A senior Afghan security official, citing reports from police, told Reuters that Western security contractors working at a U.S. military camp in Kabul opened fire on protesters and wounded several.

Witness Rahimullah, 17, said his brother, Ghafar, 23, was shot by one of the contractors in the right leg when he was throwing stones during the demonstration.

"He is right now in Daoud Khan Hospital," Rahimullah said of the central Kabul hospital.

The Afghan Interior Ministry said it had ordered an investigation into the shooting.

"As a result of shooting at protesters by foreign guards at Camp Phoenix, one person was killed and 10 others were wounded," the ministry said in an emailed statement.

Later, wounded protesters along the busy Jalalabad road on the fringe of Kabul said Afghan police had fired on them.

CULTURAL SENSITIVITIES

Twenty-one people, including 11 policemen, were wounded in the capital, said Mohammad Zahir, head of Kabul police's crimes unit. They included the city police chief, Ayoub Salangi, who was hit in the ankle by a stone.

In Parwan province, home to Bagram, four people were shot dead by Afghan police and 10 were wounded while attacking offices, provincial officials and the interior ministry said.

A protester was shot dead by police in Logar province, east of the capital, the governor's spokesman, Deen Mohammad Darwish, said. Hundreds protested in front of the governor's office. Some threw stones.

Afghan health ministry spokesman Ghulam Sakhi Kargar said one person also died in hospital in Kabul from gunshot wounds received during one of two shooting incidents at protests in at least four areas of the snow-bound capital.

Critics say Western troops often fail to grasp the country's religious and cultural sensitivities. Muslims consider the Koran the literal word of God and treat each book with deep reverence.

Demonstrations by as many as 2,000 people broke out as word of the Bagram find spread.

Police said most injuries were caused by flying stones and sticks hurled by protesters. Demonstrators had charged police lines and nearby military bases at a protest on the edge of Kabul, burning tyres and smashing vehicles and building windows.

Protesters shouted "Death to America!" and "Death to (President Hamid) Karzai" as black smoke rose over a large demonstration on the outskirts of the Afghan capital.

"When the Americans insult us to this degree, we will join the insurgents," said Ajmal, an 18-year-old protester in Kabul.

Demonstrators set fire to part of a housing compound used by foreign contract workers. A Reuters witness said the fire damaged part of a guesthouse at the Green Village complex, where 1,500 mostly foreign contractors live and work.

Outrage also spilled over in the Afghan parliament, where several members shouted "death to America" inside the legislative chamber.

The protests spread to several cities.

In Jalalabad, to the east, some protesters burned U.S. flags and shouted "Death to America." Others set ablaze fuel tankers near the city's airport.

Demonstrators praised the leader of the Afghan Taliban, the secretive Mullah Mohammad Omar, screaming "Long live Mullah Omar!," Reuters witnesses said. Five people were wounded, the governor's spokesman said.

In neighboring Pakistan's largest city Karachi, around 100 Islamic seminary students protested against the Koran burnings.

"Pakistan's government should summon the American ambassador and demand an apology. And if he doesn't apologize, he should be kicked out of the country," said Abdul Basit, a protest leader.

Others took a harder line.

"No forgiveness for the descrators of the Koran," a section of the crowd shouted. "Only death."

(Additional reporting by Amie Ferris-Rotman in KABUL and Imtiaz Shah in KARACHI; Writing by Rob Taylor; Editing by Michael Georgy and Ron Popeski)http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/02/22/us-afghanistan-korans-idUSTRE81K09T20120222

noonwitch
02-22-2012, 12:51 PM
Of course, there's hope for most of them, noony, but do the math. If only one half of one percent of them are batshit insane and think that allah wants them to kill for him, that's 11 million batshit insane people who think that allah wants them to kill for him. That's why I think we have bigger problem than most people are willing to realize. 11 million people can do a shitload of damage to the rest of humanity. But let's throw on some rose-colored glasses and say it's only one tenth of one percent; that's 2.2 million savages that are up to no good. Therein lies the rub.

I'm just sayin'.

I do understand what you are saying and the realities presented by radical Islam. I'm also a social worker and a christian, and I don't like blanket statements about large groups of people being hopeless.


For what it's worth, I doubt at this point that our military can do much to change that part of the world, since we've tried and we still know that the chaos will return as soon as out troops leave.

Rockntractor
02-22-2012, 01:18 PM
For what it's worth, I doubt at this point that our military can do much to change that part of the world, since we've tried and we still know that the chaos will return as soon as out troops leave.

Very true but we need to contain them there, if they move beyond their borders blast them back but don't get involved in their internal struggles, let them kill each other.

Odysseus
02-22-2012, 05:34 PM
I do understand what you are saying and the realities presented by radical Islam. I'm also a social worker and a christian, and I don't like blanket statements about large groups of people being hopeless.

For what it's worth, I doubt at this point that our military can do much to change that part of the world, since we've tried and we still know that the chaos will return as soon as out troops leave.

Afghanistan is now, and is very likely to remain, a failed state. The culture of the Pashtuns discourages modern governance, and the rule of law is basically a local affair in accordance with traditions that go back before Alexander the Great's conquests. It's not someplace that we can turn into a modern state, at least not overnight, and that's the problem. Our attention span demands a quick fix, and while there are a few viable ones, our scruples will not tolerate them.

After 9/11, we had to deal with an intransigent governing body, the Taliban, which refused to give up Bin Laden, and which was perfectly happy to harbor him while he cooked up new atrocities. Our capacity to get them to change their minds was very limited, and therefore, we had to force them to give him up or expell him. Our way of doing that was a quick overthrow of the Taliban, followed by an attempt to impose democratic rule. This might have worked if we were prepared to spend several decades educating multiple generations of Afghans in the nuances of representative government, as we did with South Korea (which had a similar experience with tribalism, autocracy and limited contact with the modern world). However, we were not prepared to spend fifty years turning Afghanistan into South Korea, and I'm not entirely sure that we could have, given the differences between Islam and Buddhism. Failing that, we needed a quicker solution, one that removed the threat of Afghanistan as a base of operations for jihadis, but didn't entail a long occupation or commitment of boots on the ground.

The British used to identify a large minority group in a colony and train and arm it, so that it could maintain control, but whose numerical disadvantages made them dependent on the British for support. This is how the Sunni became the rulers of Iraq. However, it often backfired spectacularly, such as when they tried to support the Arab minority in Palestine against the Jews, and found themselves fomenting a civil war. This was our second attempt, but Karzai is not sufficiently effective to maintain the peace that we want.

The third option is the punitive expedition. Simply put, we could have hit the Afghans hard, destroyed as much of the country as possible in as short a time as possible, and warned them that if they messed with us again, we'd be back in force to finish the job. We'd have left the countryside in ruins and created a humanitarian disaster, but we'd also have let the world know that were were not to be trifled with. The example of this paradigm occurs throughout history, from the Greek's destruction of Troy, Alexander's destruction of Thebes, Rome's destruction of Carthage, Jerusalem and the various tribal strongholds of northern Europe, and various other atrocities. Of course, the survivors would hate us, but they would also fear us, and, as Machiavelli famously wrote, it is better to be feared than loved. Also, given the nature of our enemies, they'd have understood and expected this response, as it is what they would have done if the roles were reversed. The rest of the world would have screamed bloody murder, but let's face it, they were going to do that no matter what we did.


Very true but we need to contain them there, if they move beyond their borders blast them back but don't get involved in their internal struggles, let them kill each other.

Eventually, that is what we will end up doing, until we can no longer contain them. Then it will be all-out war again. This is why the Muslim Brotherhood's plan of a stealth jihad, of colonizing the west through immigration and the establishment of Muslim enclaves, is so insidious. To many jihadis, 9/11 was a strategic error, because it woke us up to the threat before it had gained sufficient inroads to neutralize our response.

BadCat
02-23-2012, 08:35 AM
This morning, they reported that these books had been written in by prisoners, which is a violation of some stupid muzzie religious rule.

Oddly enough, burning is considered a proper way to destroy a "defaced" copy of this particular book.

Bailey
02-23-2012, 08:39 AM
This morning, they reported that these books had been written in by prisoners, which is a violation of some stupid muzzie religious rule.

Oddly enough, burning is considered a proper way to destroy a "defaced" copy of this particular book.

I wish someone would've wiped their ass with the pages just to see the frenzy that would've ensued. :biggrin:

Apocalypse
02-23-2012, 11:16 AM
And of course our Apologizer-In-Chief sent this letter.



KABUL, Afghanistan (AP) (http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/story/2012-02-23/obama-apology-quran/53216996/1) – The Afghan president’s office says it has received a letter from President Obama formally apologizing for the burning of Qurans at a U.S. military base in Afghanistan.


The statement from President Hamid Karzai’s office says the U.S. ambassador delivered the letter on Thursday.


In the letter, which is quoted in the statement, Obama expresses his “deep regret for the reported incident” and offers his “sincere apologies.”


According to the statement, Obama wrote: “The error was inadvertent; I assure you that we will take the appropriate steps to avoid any recurrence, to include holding accountable those responsible.”



So more of our soldiers being put on trial for no wrong doing.

And this was received by them accordingly.


(CBS News) (http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-202_162-57383415/afghan-soldier-kills-2-u.s-troops/) — Two U.S. troops have been shot to death and four more wounded by an Afghan solider who turned his gun on his allies in apparent anger over the burning of Qurans at a U.S. military base in Afghanistan, an Afghan official tells CBS News.

Rockntractor
02-23-2012, 11:20 AM
You stage a protest or attack one of our men, we dissolve a mosque at prayer time. Rinse repeat.

AmPat
02-23-2012, 11:25 AM
You know, I tried a high quality version of the Whole-E book of the Moon god religion. It didn't work so good. I acquired a medium quality and the pages in it are much more absorbent. I suggest for a really good clean up after a hearty poop, you go with the medium quality paper. The goofy little book has many pages for long life and if you are a two-ply man, just double up!

Rockntractor
02-23-2012, 01:00 PM
Either fight a war or bring our men home, since Obama is incapable of actually allowing the military to do what they are trained for, we need to bring them home and stop wiping the butts of our enemies and quite handing out pacifiers, that is not what our military is for.

Novaheart
02-23-2012, 01:49 PM
I think we should give every man, woman, and child in Kabul a new Koran. No, give them ten new Korans each..... dropped from a high altitude.

noonwitch
02-23-2012, 05:06 PM
This morning, they reported that these books had been written in by prisoners, which is a violation of some stupid muzzie religious rule.

Oddly enough, burning is considered a proper way to destroy a "defaced" copy of this particular book.


I'm not an expert on Islam, but I think you are right that only "official" clerics are allowed to reproduce the Koran.

They should have just told the Afgani people that the Korans they burned had been written by women.

wwworkingguy
02-23-2012, 05:39 PM
Unless there is something I'm missing, I cannot fathom the stupidity of those that burned this trash anyplace near where these fanatic people could find out.

Odysseus
02-23-2012, 05:54 PM
And of course our Apologizer-In-Chief sent this letter.



So more of our soldiers being put on trial for no wrong doing.

And this was received by them accordingly.
I have no doubt that someday, I will be in the position of having to do an Article 32 hearing or a 15-6 investigation of something like this, and I am not looking forward to it. Any result that doesn't satisfy the PC demands of the elites will most likely land me in the cell next to the perp.

I think we should give every man, woman, and child in Kabul a new Koran. No, give them ten new Korans each..... dropped from a high altitude.
What we really ought to do is translate it for them. Most Muslims don't speak Arabic and have no idea of what's actually in the Qur'an. I'm currently reading a collection of essays by people who left Islam, and the unifying thread is that they actually read the Qur'an and the Hadiths, and realized how nuts Mohammed was.

I'm not an expert on Islam, but I think you are right that only "official" clerics are allowed to reproduce the Koran.

They should have just told the Afgani people that the Korans they burned had been written by women.
That might have actually worked, except then they'd have rioted because we allowed women to write the Qur'an.

Lager
02-23-2012, 08:21 PM
Unless there is something I'm missing, I cannot fathom the stupidity of those that burned this trash anyplace near where these fanatic people could find out.
From what I have read, it wasn't intentional. All trash is burned in the AOR. I think it's possible the books were mixed in with regular trash inadvertently. Local nationals are routinely given jobs on bases as a way to help stimulate the local economy. Many may work in the burn pits. I try to respect most religions. I think the moniker of stupidity should be leveled at those who believe it's justified to take the lives of as many people as possible simply because a mass produced, cheap copy of their religious text was accidentally thrown in the trash.

Odysseus
02-23-2012, 09:06 PM
From what I have read, it wasn't intentional. All trash is burned in the AOR. I think it's possible the books were mixed in with regular trash inadvertently. Local nationals are routinely given jobs on bases as a way to help stimulate the local economy. Many may work in the burn pits. I try to respect most religions. I think the moniker of stupidity should be leveled at those who believe it's justified to take the lives of as many people as possible simply because a mass produced, cheap copy of their religious text was accidentally thrown in the trash.

At Balad, we had LNs working on trash collection, while the burn pits were run by contractors under green-suiter supervision, but the bases in Afghanistan may have different procedures.

What I don't get is how they ended up trashed in the first place. Most US personnel aren't likely to have multiple copies of the Qur'an sitting around, unless it was a chaplain, and they'd know better.

BadCat
02-24-2012, 08:55 AM
At Balad, we had LNs working on trash collection, while the burn pits were run by contractors under green-suiter supervision, but the bases in Afghanistan may have different procedures.

What I don't get is how they ended up trashed in the first place. Most US personnel aren't likely to have multiple copies of the Qur'an sitting around, unless it was a chaplain, and they'd know better.

It's been confirmed that these copies were used by muzzie prisoners and were "defaced", by having writing in them. The particular writing was jihadist messages meant to be passed on to other prisoners.

Odysseus
02-24-2012, 09:57 AM
It's been confirmed that these copies were used by muzzie prisoners and were "defaced", by having writing in them. The particular writing was jihadist messages meant to be passed on to other prisoners.

In that case, they should have been kept in the G2 section for analysis. By permitting them to be viewed by LN laborers without security clearances, they were permitting a serious security breach.

AmPat
02-24-2012, 10:14 AM
If the army had accidentally burned a bunch of Bibles at a fort in the south during the 1950s, how would the people nearby responded? Probably the same way many of them responded to Scopes/Darwin, rock music and revenuers.

There are billions of muslims in this world. I can't believe that there is no hope for any of them.
Or maybe worse, like the way NORTHERNERS did during the busing of those precious Black students they acted like they gave a damn about,,,,,,,,,,,,until they had the nerve to darken (pardon the pun) the doors of MY SCHOOL!!!:rolleyes: Seriously, why do you have to attack the South like this. Have you ever lived in the South? You reek of the same prejudice you liberals feign you don't have.:mad:

Retread
02-24-2012, 06:25 PM
If the army had accidentally burned a bunch of Bibles at a fort in the south during the 1950s, how would the people nearby responded? Probably the same way many of them responded to Scopes/Darwin, rock music and revenuers.

There are billions of muslims in this world. I can't believe that there is no hope for any of them.

That has to be one of the most senseless statements I have ever read.

Had that happened near my church, we would have had the pickup filled with new testaments and on the way to replace the lost bibles before the smoke cleared.

Chuck58
02-24-2012, 11:30 PM
This is worth watching. Don't be put off by the first few seconds. It's pretty good.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYEctbGSkkw

Starbuck
02-24-2012, 11:57 PM
The young lady has a way with words.....:lemo:

" I'm sorry we don't have a leader with enough balls......:adoration::adoration:

Odysseus
02-25-2012, 11:10 AM
This is worth watching. Don't be put off by the first few seconds. It's pretty good.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYEctbGSkkw

That was awesome. Is it too late to get her on the primary ballot in Virginia?

NJCardFan
02-25-2012, 12:33 PM
That was awesome. Is it too late to get her on the primary ballot in Virginia?

Nice. I am now awaiting for the same outrage when a Christian is arrested in a Muslim country.

Articulate_Ape
02-25-2012, 12:50 PM
It really is time to GTFO of that shithole, cut off all aid, and let the animals get back to butchering one another. If they cause us any further problems, just bomb them forward to the stone age. They aren't worth a single American boot on the ground.

AmPat
02-25-2012, 12:55 PM
Nice. I am now awaiting for the same outrage when a Christian is arrested in a Muslim country.

She was much more polite than I would have been. This is why O Blah Blah has to have his goons sweep an audience and load it with his drones before he "meets" with the common folks. He would never be able to handel anything less than the bowing and scraping, ring and butt kissing that his minions routinely give him. Anything less than public adoration is not permitted toward Dear Leader.

Starbuck
02-25-2012, 12:58 PM
It really is time to GTFO of that shithole, cut off all aid, and let the animals get back to butchering one another. If they cause us any further problems, just bomb them forward to the stone age. They aren't worth a single American boot on the ground.

COPY THAT! 10-4, we're outa here............

WAIT!

I just read this article:
http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2012/feb/25/us-taliban-talks-worry-afghan-women/


Yet, despite the limits still imposed on women by a conservative Afghan culture (female literacy is only 13 percent), enormous strides have been made since the Taliban fell. As of September, 2.7 million Afghan girls were enrolled in school, compared with just 5,000 in 2001. Sixty nine women serve in parliament (27 percent of the total); Koofi was elected from remote Badakhshan, where she received a huge percentage of votes from men as well as women.

These gains must not be thrown away.

Indeed, says Koofi, most Afghans are not eager for talks with the Taliban. Their priorities are more basic: schools, jobs, and services. But if Afghan President Hamid Karzai or the Americans seek talks with the Taliban, the process must change.

meh... now, I dunno.:concern:.......should we give it up?

namvet
02-25-2012, 12:59 PM
It really is time to GTFO of that shithole, cut off all aid, and let the animals get back to butchering one another. If they cause us any further problems, just bomb them forward to the stone age. They aren't worth a single American boot on the ground.

yeah their nothing more than animals with no souls. sub human.

Tipsycatlover
02-25-2012, 02:01 PM
At Balad, we had LNs working on trash collection, while the burn pits were run by contractors under green-suiter supervision, but the bases in Afghanistan may have different procedures.

What I don't get is how they ended up trashed in the first place. Most US personnel aren't likely to have multiple copies of the Qur'an sitting around, unless it was a chaplain, and they'd know better.

The korans were in the NATO library. Prisoners would write in them, replace them on the shelf to pass the message on to another prisoner in the library. After seeing that they were defaced and had lost the character of being a holy book, they were removed for disposal and burned in a trash pit.

Likely the prisoners were waiting for an opportune time to accuse Americans of defacing the koran by writing in it and starting a riot.

Articulate_Ape
02-25-2012, 02:05 PM
COPY THAT! 10-4, we're outa here............

WAIT!

I just read this article:
http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2012/feb/25/us-taliban-talks-worry-afghan-women/



meh... now, I dunno.:concern:.......should we give it up?


Yes, unless of course we plan on spending the next century there. We have enough problems, we don't need theirs.

Teetop
02-25-2012, 02:51 PM
I wish someone would've wiped their ass with the pages just to see the frenzy that would've ensued. :biggrin:


You asked, here it is. (http://moonbattery.com/?p=8533)

Odysseus
02-25-2012, 03:21 PM
You asked, here it is. (http://moonbattery.com/?p=8533)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69VIER7nzz8&feature=player_embedded#!

A few other highlights of the hypocrisy of the Muslims on this subject:

From the description of the Wahhabi takeover of the town of Taif, in Saudi Arabia:
The Wahabbis tore up the copies of the Qur’an al-karim and books of Tafsir, Hadith and other Islamic books they took from libraries, Musjids and houses and threw them down on the ground. They made sandals from the gold-gilded leather covers of the Qur’an copies and other books and wore them on their filthy feet. There were ayats and other sacred writings on those leather covers. Leaves of those valuable books thrown around were so much that there was no space to step in the streets of Taif. Although Ibn Shakban had ordered the looters not to tear up the copies of the Qur’an al-karim, the Wahabite bandits , who were gathered from the deserts for looting and who did not know the Qur’an al-karim, tore up all the copies they found and stamped on them. Only three copies of the Qur’an al-karim and one copy of the Sahih of al-Bukhari were saved form plunder in the big town of Taif.

Malawi Muslims burn Gideons Bibles in protest
October 5, 2010 @ 6:25 pm
By Reuters Staff
http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/files/2010/10/bible-350x252-custom.JPGMuslims in southern Malawi have been burning Bibles in protest against their distribution in Islamic schools byGideons International (http://www.gideons.org/Splash.aspx) [1], a senior Muslim Association of Malawi official said on Tuesday.
Sheikh Imran Sharif, the association’s secretary general, said the burning of Bibles was carried out by a few Muslim fanatics and the association has ordered them to stop. The Muslim protest has been widely criticised in secular Malawi, which has had little religious friction.
(Photo: Bible, 14 Dec 2008/Edgeurged)Malawi has 1.7 million Muslims, mostly living in the south of the country, that has a population of about 15 million.
Gideons International, which is dedicated to providing copies of the Bible to people around the globe, said on its website it has distributed about 90 million Bibles in 22 countries in eastern Africa.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pPz4xfcvu8
Military burns unsolicited Bibles sent to Afghanistan

Story Highlights
Unsolicited Bibles sent by U.S. church were confiscated about a year ago
The Bibles were printed in two most common Afghan languages
Military feared they could be used for proselytizing, which is forbidden to troops
Military didn't want to risk any distribution of the Bibles and angering Muslims
d/div>v!--startclickprintexclude-->(CNN) -- Military personnel threw away, and ultimately burned, confiscated Bibles that were printed in the two most common Afghan languages amid concern they would be used to try to convert Afghans, a Defense Department spokesman said Tuesday.
The unsolicited Bibles sent by a church in the United States were confiscated about a year ago at Bagram Air Base in Afghanistan because military rules forbid troops of any religion from proselytizing while deployed there, Lt. Col. Mark Wright said.
Such religious outreach can endanger American troops and civilians in the devoutly Muslim nation, Wright said.
"The decision was made that it was a 'force protection' measure to throw them away, because, if they did get out, it could be perceived by Afghans that the U.S. government or the U.S. military was trying to convert Muslims," Wright told CNN on Tuesday.
Troops at posts in war zones are required to burn their trash, Wright said.
The Bibles were written in the languages Pashto and Dari.
This decision came to light recently, after the Al Jazeera English network aired video of a group prayer service and chapel sermon that a reporter said suggested U.S. troops were being encouraged to spread Christianity.
The military denied that earlier this month, saying much in the video was taken out of context.
"This was irresponsible and dangerous journalism sensationalizing year-old footage of a religious service for U.S. soldiers on a U.S. base and inferring that troops are evangelizing to Afghans," Col. Gregory Julian said.
The military says a soldier at Bagram received the Bibles and didn't realize he wasn't allowed to hand them out. In the Al Jazeera video, which shows the Bibles at the prayer service, an unnamed soldier says members of his church raised money for them.
The chaplain later corrected the soldier and confiscated the Bibles, Wright said.

RedGrouse
02-25-2012, 06:55 PM
Assuming this even happened.

All it takes is one local insurgent to start the RUMOR that a Koran is being burned to whip the uneducated masses into a frenzy over there.


Like in Uruzgan Province last year when the Taliban tried to claim we bayonetted a Koran. That got the locals riled up until we pointed out to the provincial elders the 30 year old soviet bayonet stuck in the Koran wasn't used by either Australian or American forces.


This is the Taliban propaganda wing yanking ISAFs chain and getting a 4 Star General to jump for them.

And yes I know they reportedly found pieces of a Koran. We found pre burnt Korans in raids last year.

Paranoia runs deep in them and I mean really deep.

Kay
02-25-2012, 11:42 PM
I can't even read on this subject without needing an extra
blood pressure pill. Where were all the riots over the Taliban
blowing up the hillside Buddhas? Oh yeah, Buddists, Christians
and other Godly religions don't do this sort of thing. Only pure
evil cults do.

We won the wars both in Iraq and the shithole of Afghan,
but we lost the wars for the hearts and minds. We've done
all the good we are ever going to do there. We have given
them an infrastructure, trained their police and military and
shown them what a better way of life can be like. Now it's
up to them. They can sink or swim. We need to just get all
our people out of there I say.

Kay
02-26-2012, 12:05 AM
But my 1st preference would have been this:


The third option is the punitive expedition. Simply put, we could have hit the Afghans hard, destroyed as much of the country as possible in as short a time as possible, and warned them that if they messed with us again, we'd be back in force to finish the job. We'd have left the countryside in ruins and created a humanitarian disaster, but we'd also have let the world know that were were not to be trifled with. The example of this paradigm occurs throughout history, from the Greek's destruction of Troy, Alexander's destruction of Thebes, Rome's destruction of Carthage, Jerusalem and the various tribal strongholds of northern Europe, and various other atrocities. Of course, the survivors would hate us, but they would also fear us, and, as Machiavelli famously wrote, it is better to be feared than loved. Also, given the nature of our enemies, they'd have understood and expected this response, as it is what they would have done if the roles were reversed. The rest of the world would have screamed bloody murder, but let's face it, they were going to do that no matter what we did.

Starbuck
02-26-2012, 11:24 AM
Obama made a serious mistake in apologizing for the burning of the Koran. He should have stood his ground defiantly or, lacking that spine, should have said nothing.

Now we are told that he has sent Hamid Karzai a letter of apology and thanked Karzai for his efforts at restoring order. In return, Karzai has issued a statement as follows:

Earlier on Sunday, in a televised address, President Hamid Karzai "condemned with the strongest words" the treatment of Islam's holy book and said the people who did it should be punished.
Then he went on to call for order.
http://news.sky.com/home/world-news/article/16177266

Obama has bungled it. He has traded a position of American strength in hopes that his personal popularity will rebound, and lost twice: Once when Americans were killed and again when Karzai used Obama's weakness as a stepping stone toward Karzai's own popularity.

And I believe that Obama has bungled it so badly that we should now leave. Afghans who were thought to be our allies can no longer be trusted, and every westerner in Afghanistan is in more danger now than when Obama took the helm 3 years ago.

And that, Boys and Girls, is just sad.:blue:

Odysseus
02-26-2012, 12:17 PM
I can't even read on this subject without needing an extra
blood pressure pill. Where were all the riots over the Taliban
blowing up the hillside Buddhas? Oh yeah, Buddists, Christians
and other Godly religions don't do this sort of thing. Only pure
evil cults do.

We won the wars both in Iraq and the shithole of Afghan,
but we lost the wars for the hearts and minds. We've done
all the good we are ever going to do there. We have given
them an infrastructure, trained their police and military and
shown them what a better way of life can be like. Now it's
up to them. They can sink or swim. We need to just get all
our people out of there I say.
We won the wars, but lost the peace. Look at the post WWII and Korean occupations. We didn't allow the Germans or Japanese to govern themselves until we were absolutely sure that they would not turn on us. We had a number of advantages then, too:

Germany and Japan had been modern nations in economic turns that had been reduced to a bare subsistence level by the war, and depended on us to feed them while we rebuilt. This meant that the German and Japanese people understood, on a gut level, that they had been defeated and were now going to have to follow our guidance. The Germans were especially wracked by guilt when the sheer horror of the Holocaust came to light, but the Japanese had seen a massive failure of their warrior culture, and had to reevaluate their entire worldview.

OTOH, Afghanistan was a primitive pit that had driven out the Soviets, lived in utter squalor and chaos under the Taliban and then been defeated in one of the most bloodless, merciful campaigns that they had ever seen. Our subsequent occupation was so busy trying to avoid offending them that one had to wonder who the victor was. The upshot is that the Afghans didn't feel defeated. They thought that, like every other conqueror, we'd eventually be driven out by their superior warrior spirit, and thanks to Obama, they've been proven right.

Second, the leadership of Germany and Japan wanted to cooperate with the victors. Hitler and the rest of the Nazi inner circle had been killed or fled, and those who remained had been tried before the world as war criminals. The others, the ones who hadn't been convicted, wanted to avoid being hanged or jailed. This meant that there was very little in the way of resistance to the occupation. In Japan, the Emperor ordered his people to lay down their arms, surrender and follow the orders of the victors. Had he not done so, we'd have had an Iraqi/Afghan-style insurgency there.

Compare that to Iraq and Afghanistan, where the leadership went underground and continued to direct an insurgency. Had we kept the Iraqi Army intact and co-opted its leadership, we'd have avoided a great deal of pain there. In Afghanistan, where there was no real central government (the Taliban basically worked through the tribal structure), that would have been far more difficult.

Islam wasn't a factor. The German state religion was Nazism, which had been defeated. The Japanese had their religion kept intact, and the Emperor had ordered them to surrender, so that was not an issue, but Islam demands resistance to any other religion or form of government. Even if the tribal leaders and every other institution had fallen into line, there'd still have been a religious terror movement. If it hadn't been the Taliban, it would have been al Qaeda or the Muslim Brotherhood, but no Islamic authority could ever countenance Kafirs ruling over Muslim lands. That's not to say that the jihadis couldn't be suppressed and defeated, but it would have been a permanent state of conflict and we'd have had to recognize that.

We'd have had to completely rewrite the culture of Afghanistan in order to build the kind of state that we want there, and while that's possible, it would have taken decades, and demanded a level of ruthless suppression of historical norms that our touchy-feely multiculturalists would not have been able to stomach.

But my 1st preference would have been this:

I'm coming around to that myself, but unfortunately, our leadership and media don't have the understanding of our enemies that would lead them to be able to take that course of action.

AmPat
02-26-2012, 10:15 PM
Obama made a serious mistake in apologizing for the burning of the Koran. He should have stood his ground defiantly or, lacking that spine, should have said nothing.

Now we are told that he has sent Hamid Karzai a letter of apology and thanked Karzai for his efforts at restoring order. In return, Karzai has issued a statement as follows:

Then he went on to call for order.
http://news.sky.com/home/world-news/article/16177266

Obama has bungled it. He has traded a position of American strength in hopes that his personal popularity will rebound, and lost twice: Once when Americans were killed and again when Karzai used Obama's weakness as a stepping stone toward Karzai's own popularity.

And I believe that Obama has bungled it so badly that we should now leave. Afghans who were thought to be our allies can no longer be trusted, and every westerner in Afghanistan is in more danger now than when Obama took the helm 3 years ago.

And that, Boys and Girls, is just sad.:blue:
It is indeed but was not only predictable, it was predicted. O Blah Blah doesn't possess the courage or the will to lead. He believes his typical BS and bullying that got him where he is will win the day. He is a typical panty waist liberal that has endangered our troops and has turned every hard fought gain into a wasted effort.

Conservatives knew over three years ago what this turd would lead us into. He has got to be defeated in November for the sake of any shred of dignity this country has remaining. We can then begin the hard work of apologizing to the world for our misguided and ignorant descent into a known failed philosophy of stealing from others to hand to useless government programs. We can apologize for turning our back on traditional friends and allies for a stupid, careless, and failed reach toward sworn enemies, believing that they will magically and overnight "love us" because of O Blah Blah the magnificent's intellect and charm.

Odysseus
02-27-2012, 11:58 AM
It is indeed but was not only predictable, it was predicted. O Blah Blah doesn't possess the courage or the will to lead. He believes his typical BS and bullying that got him where he is will win the day. He is a typical panty waist liberal that has endangered our troops and has turned every hard fought gain into a wasted effort.

Conservatives knew over three years ago what this turd would lead us into. He has got to be defeated in November for the sake of any shred of dignity this country has remaining. We can then begin the hard work of apologizing to the world for our misguided and ignorant descent into a known failed philosophy of stealing from others to hand to useless government programs. We can apologize for turning our back on traditional friends and allies for a stupid, careless, and failed reach toward sworn enemies, believing that they will magically and overnight "love us" because of O Blah Blah the magnificent's intellect and charm.

Karzai continues to demonstrate that he is sharper than Obama.


Earlier on Sunday, in a televised address, President Hamid Karzai "condemned with the strongest words" the treatment of Islam's holy book and said the people who did it should be punished.

But he also called for an end to the violence saying: "Now that we have shown our feelings, it is time to be calm and peaceful."

Mr Karzai said he respected the feelings of Afghans incensed by the Koran burning, but called on them not to "let the enemies of Afghanistan misuse their feelings".

He continued: "The demonstrations unfortunately had casualties, some 29 persons were martyred and around 200 wounded.

"We have ordered the security forces to be careful and protect people's lives and property."

The burning of the Korans had sparked five days of violent protests.

The Afghan Taliban have called on Afghans to kill foreign troops in revenge for the Koran burning, and claimed to have been behind the shooting deaths of two US officers within the heavily-fortified interior ministry in Kabul on Saturday.

Karzai said exactly what his people wanted to hear, but also told them to calm down. Of course, the Taliban will whip this up for all that it's worth, but let's remember that the persons who desecrated the Qur'ans were the prisoners who wrote jihadi slogans all over them. Let's also remember that the various Islamic terror groups routinely target mosques for bombings, and that those mosques have Qur'ans in them. Blowing up a mosque full of Qur'ans has got to be worse than simply burning a couple that had been defaced, and one would think that blowing up a mosque full of people and Qur'ans would be worse than either, but there isn't a whole lot of that kind of thinking in the Muslim world.

namvet
02-27-2012, 12:14 PM
Karzai continues to demonstrate that he is sharper than Obama.


Earlier on Sunday, in a televised address, President Hamid Karzai "condemned with the strongest words" the treatment of Islam's holy book and said the people who did it should be punished.

But he also called for an end to the violence saying: "Now that we have shown our feelings, it is time to be calm and peaceful."

Mr Karzai said he respected the feelings of Afghans incensed by the Koran burning, but called on them not to "let the enemies of Afghanistan misuse their feelings".

He continued: "The demonstrations unfortunately had casualties, some 29 persons were martyred and around 200 wounded.

"We have ordered the security forces to be careful and protect people's lives and property."

The burning of the Korans had sparked five days of violent protests.

The Afghan Taliban have called on Afghans to kill foreign troops in revenge for the Koran burning, and claimed to have been behind the shooting deaths of two US officers within the heavily-fortified interior ministry in Kabul on Saturday.

Karzai said exactly what his people wanted to hear, but also told them to calm down. Of course, the Taliban will whip this up for all that it's worth, but let's remember that the persons who desecrated the Qur'ans were the prisoners who wrote jihadi slogans all over them. Let's also remember that the various Islamic terror groups routinely target mosques for bombings, and that those mosques have Qur'ans in them. Blowing up a mosque full of Qur'ans has got to be worse than simply burning a couple that had been defaced, and one would think that blowing up a mosque full of people and Qur'ans would be worse than either, but there isn't a whole lot of that kind of thinking in the Muslim world.

and their punishment is what ???

Odysseus
02-27-2012, 12:23 PM
and their punishment is what ???

Three Halal meals per day and all the Qur'ans that they can deface or 72 virgins, depending on whether they get caught or killed.

Apocalypse
02-27-2012, 11:30 PM
OK, now I want to see obumble's letter!


The White House press secretary told members of the press pool aboard Air Force One today that President Obama’s “sincere” apology to Afghan President Hamid Karzai for a Koran-burning incident “is not appropriate to show” to reporters.


Jay Carney spoke with reporters for about 20 minutes as the presidential entourage flew to Florida for a speech on energy at the University of Miami.
Obama’s letter to Karzai that included the apology was “a lengthy, three-page letter on a host of issues, several sentences of which relate to this matter,” according to the travel pool report.
Keep reading… (http://pjmedia.com/tatler/2012/02/23/carney-severe-apology-to-karzai-not-appropriate-for-reporters-to-see/)

AmPat
02-28-2012, 10:23 AM
OK, now I want to see obumble's letter!

The White House press secretary told members of the press pool aboard Air Force One today that President Obama’s “sincere” apology to Afghan President Hamid Karzai for a Koran-burning incident “is not appropriate to show” to reporters.


Jay Carney spoke with reporters for about 20 minutes as the presidential entourage flew to Florida for a speech on energy at the University of Miami.
Obama’s letter to Karzai that included the apology was “a lengthy, three-page letter on a host of issues, several sentences of which relate to this matter,” according to the travel pool report.
Keep reading… (http://pjmedia.com/tatler/2012/02/23/carney-severe-apology-to-karzai-not-appropriate-for-reporters-to-see/)


This is just like O Blah Blah. He has a fear of showing anything about himself that indicates how monumentally stupid and naive he really is. He fears that his minions won't adore him enough if they only knew the real little man he truly is.

He is going to be the only president to have a library with no records or non-fiction sections.

SarasotaRepub
02-28-2012, 02:18 PM
It really is time to GTFO of that shithole, cut off all aid, and let the animals get back to butchering one another. If they cause us any further problems, just bomb them forward to the stone age. They aren't worth a single American boot on the ground.


Yep, I really find it hard to disagree.

Hmmm...how about we leave and pay them a million bucs for everyone of these they let us test.


http://www.eglin.af.mil/shared/media/photodb/web/031108-F-1111S-001.jpg



:Flag2:

Molon Labe
02-28-2012, 03:44 PM
This whole thing is being bent way out of proportion by the Muzzies

They were in fact desecrating their own religious holy book by scribbling notes to each other in the ones confiscated.

And it shows right here that the only last resort for gettting rid of a Quran is to burn it "if there is no other way".

http://humancond.org/_media/analysis/handling_and_disposal_of_religious_items.pdf

At the school to train Chaplain's for heaven's sake.

Odysseus
02-28-2012, 04:33 PM
OK, now I want to see obumble's letter!

The White House press secretary told members of the press pool aboard Air Force One today that President Obama’s “sincere” apology to Afghan President Hamid Karzai for a Koran-burning incident “is not appropriate to show” to reporters.


Jay Carney spoke with reporters for about 20 minutes as the presidential entourage flew to Florida for a speech on energy at the University of Miami.
Obama’s letter to Karzai that included the apology was “a lengthy, three-page letter on a host of issues, several sentences of which relate to this matter,” according to the travel pool report.
Keep reading… (http://pjmedia.com/tatler/2012/02/23/carney-severe-apology-to-karzai-not-appropriate-for-reporters-to-see/)



It certainly wasn't appropriate to send it in the first place. Still, there's no reason not to issue a redacted copy.

This whole thing is being bent way out of proportion by the Muzzies

They were in fact desecrating their own religious holy book by scribbling notes to each other in the ones confiscated.

And it shows right here that the only last resort for gettting rid of a Quran is to burn it "if there is no other way".

http://humancond.org/_media/analysis/handling_and_disposal_of_religious_items.pdf

At the school to train Chaplain's for heaven's sake.

Once again, this is manufactured outrage. Remember how the imams forged additional cartoons so that they would be guaranteed to inflame the faithful during the Danish Cartoon Jihad?

Tipsycatlover
02-29-2012, 02:43 PM
http://www.wnd.com/2012/02/afghans-qura ... ace-trial/

Spencer said that whether the soldiers end up being turned over to the Afghan government or face court-martial, either decision would set a dangerous precedent.

“It would be unconscionable either way,” he said. “If they turn them over to the Afghan government for trial then we are endorsing the applicability of Shariah law to non-Muslims in the U.S. military. If they court-martial them then they are adopting those norms as part of the UCMJ. Either way it’s frightening.”

Lopez said that while U.S. officials have made large concessions to appease Muslims, turning the soldiers over to face trial would be over the line.

“If they were to allow our soldiers to be tried under a legal system that calls for the death penalty for destroying a Quran, that would be unthinkable,” she said.

She said that the silence on the part of U.S. officials has the potential to cause real damage to the morale of troops.

namvet
02-29-2012, 02:48 PM
http://www.wnd.com/2012/02/afghans-qura ... ace-trial/

Spencer said that whether the soldiers end up being turned over to the Afghan government or face court-martial, either decision would set a dangerous precedent.

“It would be unconscionable either way,” he said. “If they turn them over to the Afghan government for trial then we are endorsing the applicability of Shariah law to non-Muslims in the U.S. military. If they court-martial them then they are adopting those norms as part of the UCMJ. Either way it’s frightening.”

Lopez said that while U.S. officials have made large concessions to appease Muslims, turning the soldiers over to face trial would be over the line.

“If they were to allow our soldiers to be tried under a legal system that calls for the death penalty for destroying a Quran, that would be unthinkable,” she said.

She said that the silence on the part of U.S. officials has the potential to cause real damage to the morale of troops.

ah way over the line. recruitment will tank. not a good reason to join anymore

Zathras
02-29-2012, 04:20 PM
ah way over the line. recruitment will tank. not a good reason to join anymore

And give those still in yet another reason to leave.

txradioguy
02-29-2012, 04:49 PM
ah way over the line. recruitment will tank. not a good reason to join anymore

And that's exactly what Obama wants.

Novaheart
02-29-2012, 04:51 PM
ah way over the line. recruitment will tank. not a good reason to join anymore

A new cause is on the horizon.