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Apocalypse
02-28-2012, 12:44 AM
The Obama administration’s proposed defense budget calls for military families and retirees to pay sharply more for their healthcare, while leaving unionized civilian defense workers’ benefits untouched. The proposal is causing a major rift within the Pentagon, according to U.S. officials. Several congressional aides suggested the move is designed to increase the enrollment in Obamacare’s state-run insurance exchanges.

http://freebeacon.com/trashing-tricare/

Thanks for giving up so much for our country, and risking all.

DumbAss Tanker
02-28-2012, 11:54 AM
The Obama administration’s proposed defense budget calls for military families and retirees to pay sharply more for their healthcare, while leaving unionized civilian defense workers’ benefits untouched. The proposal is causing a major rift within the Pentagon, according to U.S. officials. Several congressional aides suggested the move is designed to increase the enrollment in Obamacare’s state-run insurance exchanges.

http://freebeacon.com/trashing-tricare/

Thanks for giving up so much for our country, and risking all.

Not that I support Obama's stupid plan, but the comparison here is pretty far off into the total bullshit zone.

The "Unionized civilian defense workers," not all of whom are unionized, already pay quite a bit for theirs, and have deductibles and co-pays to boot; They REALLY pay to keep their health insurance when they retire, unlike, say, the UAW or some State employee systems. What many of them pay in a month for FEHBP-enrolled system coverage would cover retired servicemember and family for a whole year of TriCare Prime (And TriCare Standard, where Prime isn't available, costs nothing on the front end).

djones520
02-28-2012, 01:08 PM
The Obama administration’s proposed defense budget calls for military families and retirees to pay sharply more for their healthcare, while leaving unionized civilian defense workers’ benefits untouched. The proposal is causing a major rift within the Pentagon, according to U.S. officials. Several congressional aides suggested the move is designed to increase the enrollment in Obamacare’s state-run insurance exchanges.

http://freebeacon.com/trashing-tricare/

Thanks for giving up so much for our country, and risking all.

As I understand it, nothing changes for Active Duty, at least nothing significant. For retirees using Tricare, fee's do go up, almost triple.

http://militarytimes.com/projects/benefits/tricare-fee-increases/

Eupher
02-28-2012, 01:14 PM
I didn't know the details on insurance coverage for civilians; thanks, DAT for the insight.

All the same, there's a reason I choose not to participate in the endlessly fickle game that Congress and the socialists who comprise the current administration play on the military.

I used TriCare for a very brief period of time (was very glad I did so), but knew it was just a matter of time before Congress decided to jerk us around.

AmPat
02-28-2012, 01:44 PM
O Blah Blah has no problem jerking around those of us he hated his entire life. The effete little liberal weenie couldn't make it in an armed force where you have to have traits that the Coward In Chief lacks completely.
1. Bravery
2. Sacrifice
3. Love of Country
4. Ability to take orders

These are just a few essential traits of a good Soldier and O Blah Blah has none of those. He is a typical limp-wristed, Narcissistic, effete Marxist who found himself in charge of a country and military he loathes. Any damage he can do to the military is payback for the fantasy wrongs committed against him and his Marxist, Kenyan Daddy and Communist mother.

djones520
02-28-2012, 02:09 PM
I didn't know the details on insurance coverage for civilians; thanks, DAT for the insight.

All the same, there's a reason I choose not to participate in the endlessly fickle game that Congress and the socialists who comprise the current administration play on the military.

I used TriCare for a very brief period of time (was very glad I did so), but knew it was just a matter of time before Congress decided to jerk us around.

Sounds like the outrage for this is getting a lot of voice. CNN was covering it this morning. This still has to go through Congress, and I'd say there are decent chances it won't make it through.

Eupher
02-28-2012, 02:30 PM
Sounds like the outrage for this is getting a lot of voice. CNN was covering it this morning. This still has to go through Congress, and I'd say there are decent chances it won't make it through.

Despite DoD's rhetoric to the contrary, there isn't much defense against raising TriCare rates to something approximating what they've lined out here. Say what you will, the YEARLY rate of $460 stacks up pretty poorly against what others are paying. Congress is less inclined to look at the empty promises made so many years ago versus the absolutely stupid spending and borrowing that's made things orders of magnitude worse.

TriCare rates used to be based on rank -- now I see they're based on Tier 1, Tier 2, etc., which boils down to the same thing -- if you're retired and your retirement is more, you pay more.

I ain't fishin' in those waters.

DumbAss Tanker
02-28-2012, 03:01 PM
I didn't know the details on insurance coverage for civilians; thanks, DAT for the insight.

All the same, there's a reason I choose not to participate in the endlessly fickle game that Congress and the socialists who comprise the current administration play on the military.

I used TriCare for a very brief period of time (was very glad I did so), but knew it was just a matter of time before Congress decided to jerk us around.

TriCare coverage isn't all that different from my BC/BS from civil service (which is why my family never used it during any of the long mobilizations I've done, since I left the active component in the 90s and went Civil Service and USAR). Now that I have my blue card, it just doesn't make sense to keep up the BC/BS with TriCare Prime Family being just over $500 a year (As long as Obama's stupid crap is DOA, but even if it isn't, BC/BS family coverage as a civilian retiree would still cost a shitload more than $2K a year), particularly since the family doc takes either one.

txradioguy
02-28-2012, 05:43 PM
The Obama Administration plans to force active duty service members and veterans off the military’s current health care plan, Tricare, and into ObamaCare’s state-run healthcare exchanges by increasing Tricare premiums between 30 percent to 78 percent the first year and a crushing 94 percent to 345 percent every five years thereafter.

Obama’s plan, which is sparking a major controversy within the Pentagon, is set to go into effect after the 2012 presidential election and will not apply to unionized civilian defense workers’ benefits.

The Washington Free Beacon’s Bill Gertz reports that, “According to congressional assessments, a retired Army colonel with a family currently paying $460 a year for health care will pay $2,048,” thereby all but guaranteeing service members and vets will be forced to enter ObamaCare.

Sources close to the controversy fear the radical healthcare restructuring will significantly hurt military recruitment:


“We shouldn’t ask our military to pay our bills when we aren’t willing to impose a similar hardship on the rest of the population,” Rep. Howard “Buck” McKeon, chairman of the House Armed Services Committee and a Republican from California, said in a statement to the Washington Free Beacon. “We can’t keep asking those who have given so much to give that much more.”


The 2.1 million-member Veterans of Foreign Wars (VFW) are vowing to fight the Obama Administration’s proposed healthcare scheme:


“A secure America needs a strong military,” he said, “and whether one serves honorably for four years or 40, messing with military pay and benefits is a clear signal to the troops and their families that the budget is more important than people. That is going to seriously hurt recruiting and retention, and potentially end the all-volunteer force, because nobody wants to work for an ungrateful employer in a vocation as inherently dangerous as ours.”


The move by the Obama Administration comes on the heels of announcing it plans to gut $487 billion in Pentagon spending.

By squeezing service members and veterans out of Tricare and into ObamaCare through significantly higher Tricare premiums, the Obama Administration believes it can pinch $1.8 billion from Tricare in fiscal 2013 and $12.9 billion by 2017.

By comparison, Mr. Obama spent $20.5 billion on his Department of Energy green energy grants and loans program, 80 percent of which went to companies owned or tied to Mr. Obama’s top fundraisers.

Congressional hearings on the ObamaCare military restructuring begin next month.

http://biggovernment.com/whall/2012/02/28/obama-to-force-military-into-obamacare-exchanges-and-slash-healthcare-benefits/

txradioguy
02-28-2012, 06:25 PM
Oh and those sky high rates...will not apply to unionized civilian employees.

Apache
02-28-2012, 07:55 PM
Oh and those sky high rates...will not apply to unionized civilian employees.

i saw that in the original post...

it stuck out the same way


fucking bastard will stop at nothing...

namvet
02-28-2012, 11:42 PM
To pay for union health care.

The Obama administration’s proposed defense budget calls for military families and retirees to pay sharply more for their healthcare, while leaving unionized civilian defense workers’ benefits untouched. The proposal is causing a major rift within the Pentagon, according to U.S. officials. Several congressional aides suggested the move is designed to increase the enrollment in Obamacare’s state-run insurance exchanges.

He really does hate the military!

http://freebeacon.com/trashing-tricare/

DumbAss Tanker
02-29-2012, 11:46 AM
Obama’s plan, which is sparking a major controversy within the Pentagon, is set to go into effect after the 2012 presidential election and will not apply to unionized civilian defense workers’ benefits.


Basically because there is no relationship whatsoever between TriCare and eligibility for medical insurance as a civil service retiree. The civil service coverage isn't any better than TriCare, costs enrollees at least ten times more out of pocket for similar coverage now with similar deductibles but more co-pays, and passes the ball to Medicare Part B just like Tricare does at age 65. The comparison is disingenuous.

namvet
02-29-2012, 11:53 AM
he can kiss the veteran vote good bye. he's not even bothering to show his hatred of us all. and this ups my out right hatred of him ten fold. what we do on his god damned fuckin' grave won't pass for rose's.

DumbAss Tanker
02-29-2012, 01:11 PM
he can kiss the veteran vote good bye.

I sure as Hell hope so! Could help quite a bit in Floriduh.

Odysseus
02-29-2012, 01:18 PM
I sure as Hell hope so! Could help quite a bit in Floriduh.

Florida, PA and a lot of other swing states. Veterans are a lot more likely to vote than other groups.

Novaheart
02-29-2012, 01:37 PM
So if the argument against Universal Comprehensive Healthcare (paid by taxes, not free) is that "free healthcare" will generate a wave of Americans so bored with life that they have nothing better to do than to "use too much" healthcare (because it's FREE!) , then wouldn't there be an incremental argument to be made about the nearly free healthcare being provide to military and military retirees?

On of these articles acted like the increase to a retired colonel from $450something to $900something a year would be the financial hardship of the century. How much do you suppose a retired colonel makes a year? I can only go by my brother in law (retired Army colonel) and $500 a year is less than he spends on tips. Did he take up residence at the nearest hospital because his healthcare was almost free? Will he stop going to the doctor twice a year now that it's going to cost a little more? Of course not.

The people who answer the phone when you call Verizon pay $190/month for their portion of premium (again, actually a program fee because Verizon is self insured). $190 a month, being paid by someone who makes $10/hr to $15/hr. Of course, some dumbass will probably jump in and tell be that the person who makes $10 doesn't pay $190/month in insurance, because how could he if he's also paying a $1000 a year in property tax. Wake up you out of touch POS- they do. There are people who are working for little more than to keep the roof over their head and their families in health insurance : they are called WOMEN.

txradioguy
02-29-2012, 02:24 PM
How anyone that wears the uniform of the U.S. Military can pull the lever for Obama this next election is beyond me.

They are definitely putting skin color over what's best for them and their brothers in arms if they do.

Novaheart
02-29-2012, 02:26 PM
How anyone that wears the uniform of the U.S. Military can pull the lever for Obama this next election is beyond me.

They are definitely putting skin color over what's best for them and their brothers in arms if they do.

Or perhaps they are putting something else above self interest; isn't that what you would like to think is the noble standard?

txradioguy
02-29-2012, 02:40 PM
Or perhaps they are putting something else above self interest; isn't that what you would like to think is the noble standard?


How is making your life worse and possibly putting yourself on the unemployment line by voting for someone who so obviously and openly hates you..."putting something else above self interest"?

Eupher
02-29-2012, 03:25 PM
The "putting others before self" meme is the classic liberal stance taken when a person looks at a system or a politician or an issue and, deciding that issue does not serve the person in any way save what the liberal thinks is right and proper and is somehow derided or ridiculed or ostracized for not "taking one for the team."

I guess Brad Spitzer of OWie fame "took one for the team" when he opted to stay in a $700 per night hotel room while the rest of his fetid, stinking cohorts were shitting on cop cars.

Novaheart
02-29-2012, 05:33 PM
The "putting others before self" meme is the classic liberal stance taken when a person looks at a system or a politician or an issue and, deciding that issue does not serve the person in any way save what the liberal thinks is right and proper and is somehow derided or ridiculed or ostracized for not "taking one for the team."

I guess Brad Spitzer of OWie fame "took one for the team" when he opted to stay in a $700 per night hotel room while the rest of his fetid, stinking cohorts were shitting on cop cars.

Oh, that's right, you're some guy that disappeared a few years ago and no one noticed. Welcome back.

AmPat
02-29-2012, 05:40 PM
Or perhaps they are putting something else above self interest; isn't that what you would like to think is the noble standard?

No, wrong as usual. I know many of these voters. I suspect you know OF a couple. The Black Soldiers will vote for the candidate with the best Black face. The young ones will vote for the Dimbulb-RAT because they remember from history class a couple years ago that their indoctrinators taught them we are a dimocratic government, instead of the truth that we are a REPUBLIC. The other military that vote for the idiot Marxist will vote name recognition (party and person), propaganda BS they heard but haven't researched, or simply pull the lever for the barracks favorite.

The responsible military voters will have researched their candidate and divined the truth out of all the liberal BS crap, will look at what the liberal idiots have done to the country, military, and economy, and pull the lever for somebody who actually loves our country.

O Blah Blah cannot get votes from educated, informed, responsible, and reasonable Americans. His votes will come from the leaches, liars, and lazy in the population.

Novaheart
02-29-2012, 05:49 PM
No, wrong as usual. I know many of these voters. I suspect you know OF a couple. The Black Soldiers will vote for the candidate with the best Black face. The young ones will vote for the Dimbulb-RAT because they remember from history class a couple years ago that their indoctrinators taught them we are a dimocratic government, instead of the truth that we are a REPUBLIC. The other military that vote for the idiot Marxist will vote name recognition (party and person), propaganda BS they heard but haven't researched, or simply pull the lever for the barracks favorite.

The responsible military voters will have researched their candidate and divined the truth out of all the liberal BS crap, will look at what the liberal idiots have done to the country, military, and economy, and pull the lever for somebody who actually loves our country.

O Blah Blah cannot get votes from educated, informed, responsible, and reasonable Americans. His votes will come from the leaches, liars, and lazy in the population.

So everybody but you is stupid? You are a joke. Obama is going to win this election, because the only thing the RNC has to offer is a socially clueless Mormon, a whackjob that makes Mel Gibson look sane and intellectual, and guy who actually is a lot better than I remember him being in Congress but whose time appears to have passed.

txradioguy
02-29-2012, 05:55 PM
So everybody but you is stupid? You are a joke. Obama is going to win this election, because the only thing the RNC has to offer is a socially clueless Mormon, a whackjob that makes Mel Gibson look sane and intellectual, and guy who actually is a lot better than I remember him being in Congress but whose time appears to have passed.

Too bad there's not a shred of truth or logic in what you just posted...nothing but angry biased jealously and hatred for someone who has done absolutely nothing to you.

You're the joke Novatwit...you're the only one here that doesn't seem to realize that. Your typical Libtard bitch move to slander someone when you don't have the facts on your side proves it.

AmPat
02-29-2012, 06:03 PM
So everybody but you is stupid? You are a joke. Obama is going to win this election, because the only thing the RNC has to offer is a socially clueless Mormon, a whackjob that makes Mel Gibson look sane and intellectual, and guy who actually is a lot better than I remember him being in Congress but whose time appears to have passed.

Ah, I see, it must be time for you to confess that your are a lying liberal gasbag who is moist over an O Blah Blah reelection. I thought you weren't supporting the Marxist Liar In Chief?
Socially clueless Morman? Says you? The purveyor of all that is socially acceptable? PUHLEEZE!
Whack job how? Because he doesn't approve of sticking a penis into another man's butt? Must be those vaunted social graces you alone possess.
Former Congressman? His time is now, he is running you do realize. How does that equate to "passed?"

No, you prefer to be led by the nose by a proven liar. An incompetent idiot and the ultimate narcissistic fool the world has ever seen. A man who by his own admissioon was not ready for the job he now finds himself failing so miserably at. A man who cannot see, learn from, and rise above the failed indoctrination of his youth and young adulthood, and actually work toward making this country the great nation it was a scant 3 years ago.

"As for everyone but me being stupid," not so. Only the percentage that vote for the Turd In Chief fit into that category.

txradioguy
02-29-2012, 06:08 PM
Ah, I see, it must be time for you to confess that your are a lying liberal gasbag who is moist over an O Blah Blah reelection. I thought you weren't supporting the Marxist Liar In Chief?
Socially clueless Morman? Says you? The purveyor of all that is socially acceptable? PUHLEEZE!
Whack job how? Because he doesn't approve of sticking a penis into another man's butt? Must be those vaunted social graces you alone possess.
Former Congressman? His time is now, he is running you do realize. How does that equate to "passed?"

No, you prefer to be led by the nose by a proven liar. An incompetent idiot and the ultimate narcissistic fool the world has ever seen. A man who by his own admissioon was not ready for the job he now finds himself failing so miserably at. A man who cannot see, learn from, and rise above the failed indoctrination of his youth and young adulthood, and actually work toward making this country the great nation it was a scant 3 years ago.

"As for everyone but me being stupid," not so. Only the percentage that vote for the Turd In Chief fit into that category.

The only reason Novatwit is supporting this worthless clueless Jimmy Carter lite is because he enacted DADT and (Nova's hoping) that IF he gets re-elected he'll make gay "marriage" the law of the land.

The country...national security...the economy could all go to hell in a hand basket but Nova will support this guy all the way into the abyss as long as he continues to push the gay agenda.

RedGrouse
03-01-2012, 02:31 AM
The only reason Novatwit is supporting this worthless clueless Jimmy Carter lite is because he enacted DADT and (Nova's hoping) that IF he gets re-elected he'll make gay "marriage" the law of the land.

The country...national security...the economy could all go to hell in a hand basket but Nova will support this guy all the way into the abyss as long as he continues to push the gay agenda.

The irony is most Blacks are opposed to gay marriage and they voted for Prop 8. That same goes with Hispanics.

DumbAss Tanker
03-01-2012, 11:56 AM
Or perhaps they are putting something else above self interest; isn't that what you would like to think is the noble standard?

Please, just stop before you kill yourself with stupidity poisoning.

Odysseus
03-01-2012, 12:58 PM
So if the argument against Universal Comprehensive Healthcare (paid by taxes, not free) is that "free healthcare" will generate a wave of Americans so bored with life that they have nothing better to do than to "use too much" healthcare (because it's FREE!) , then wouldn't there be an incremental argument to be made about the nearly free healthcare being provide to military and military retirees?
That's a big "if". What the argument states is that without any connection between consumers and producers of healthcare (i.e., a pricing mechanism that reflects the supply and the demand), the consumers will consume without restraint. This doesn't mean that they will use medical services out of boredom, but they will use them far more than they would have, regardless of necessity. Pricing mitigates demand, and without it, demand is always infinite.


Or perhaps they are putting something else above self interest; isn't that what you would like to think is the noble standard?

We put something else above self-interest every day that we wear the uniform. The people who voted for Obama in the military tend to be younger troops and African Americans, but he still did very poorly among the armed forces. Most of the people who voted for him bought his line, but we've had four years of watching him actually do the job and he cannot hide his record:

During the threat of a government shutdown, he used our pay as a bargaining chip, unlike every other president who had faced a similar situation.
His budgets have gutted our services, removing personnel and equipment at a time when the world is growing more, not less, dangerous.
He has failed to act when asked to approve war plans, support allies or lead, but has swiftly fired our leaders for perceived slights.
He has thrown away victories for crass political considerations, and taken credit for things that he has not done.
He has apologized to our enemies and insulted us over perceived slights to Islam, while ignoring far worse things done by our enemies.
He has prioritized his budgets so that our cuts will pay for wasteful programs that the public opposes, but which will empower his base.
He has put the interests of his contributors ahead of the interests of the nation, in some cases jeopardizing national security to do so. The Lightsquared (http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=46227) scandal should be on everyone's lips.
While a former president, who was under no obligation to do so, visited troops who had been shot at FT Hood and welcomed back the last deployers from Iraq, Obama hung back. He finally visited FT Hood several days after Bush did, with far more fanfare, and his staff was actually split on whether he should greet the returning troops.


We know who our friends our. It may take a while, but it eventually filters down.

Novaheart
03-01-2012, 01:04 PM
That's a big "if". What the argument states is that without any connection between consumers and producers of healthcare (i.e., a pricing mechanism that reflects the supply and the demand), the consumers will consume without restraint. This doesn't mean that they will use medical services out of boredom, but they will use them far more than they would have, regardless of necessity. Pricing mitigates demand, and without it, demand is always infinite.

So do you think that you and your family use medical care more than you would if you were working in a private sector job, paying $276/mo premium plus 20% copay after $2500 deductible?

Odysseus
03-01-2012, 06:54 PM
So do you think that you and your family use medical care more than you would if you were working in a private sector job, paying $276/mo premium plus 20% copay after $2500 deductible?
My dad certainly does. He goes to the VA for the slightest ailment.

Novaheart
03-01-2012, 10:36 PM
My dad certainly does. He goes to the VA for the slightest ailment.

There are a number of men around here who seem to have frequent and ongoing relationship with the VA, and not all of it for medical. I have guessed in the past that quite a bit of it seems to be that the VA is a permanent structure where people care. I don't doubt that many of them have legitimate chronic conditions. Does the VA do anything to discourage abuse of services?

namvet
03-01-2012, 10:51 PM
There are a number of men around here who seem to have frequent and ongoing relationship with the VA, and not all of it for medical. I have guessed in the past that quite a bit of it seems to be that the VA is a permanent structure where people care. I don't doubt that many of them have legitimate chronic conditions. Does the VA do anything to discourage abuse of services?

its not free. they do charge for services and co pays

txradioguy
03-02-2012, 03:24 AM
its not free. they do charge for services and co pays

You'd think Novatwit would be as upset as we are about the proposed increases seeing as it will affect what the gay soldiers will have to pay once they are diagnosed as HIV positive and have to start getting treatments.

Rockntractor
03-02-2012, 03:32 AM
You'd think Novatwit would be as upset as we are about the proposed increases seeing as it will affect what the gay soldiers will have to pay once they are diagnosed as HIV positive and have to start getting treatments.

I'm sure their will be a waiver to 100% cover any behaviorally spread diseases.

Chuck58
03-02-2012, 03:53 AM
So do you think that you and your family use medical care more than you would if you were working in a private sector job, paying $276/mo premium plus 20% copay after $2500 deductible?

Odysseus's post #30 just spelled it all out and you either didn't read it, didn't understand it, or don't want to.

Every time we have a democrat in charge, the military becomes the unwanted stepchild. Clinton cut them damned near to the bone, and I don't believe we've fully recovered to this day. Those men and women deserve more than we could ever give them. Most of the time, they're lucky to get thanks, and the dickwad in office has a tough time even saying that.

Yes, I'm a Veteran, Army 1965-68 and no I've never been to a VA hospital, other than to visit a friend. I'd go to a veterinarian first, or the local bruja for a potion.

AmPat
03-02-2012, 01:58 PM
its not free. they do charge for services and co pays

Vacuum Brain believes Soldiers are leaches who don't earn their pay and "entitlements." He defends liberal programs and demands expansion of same but military member's programs should be cut. It's a sentiment liberals embrace from their masters on high. They can't stand the fact that the military routinely votes in large percentages against their disgusting party.

Novaheart
03-02-2012, 02:37 PM
We made a contract with these people where they have agreed to put their lives on the line to protect us, you have no honor and right now you are crossing the line.

My complaint is not the military benefits and never has been. My complaint is this person's hypocrisy, attitude, and thoroughly common behavior towards me.

Rockntractor
03-02-2012, 02:39 PM
My complaint is not the military benefits and never has been. My complaint is this person's hypocrisy, attitude, and thoroughly common behavior towards me.

We have the Dome.

Novaheart
03-02-2012, 02:46 PM
We have the Dome.

I deleted it. I have no desire to get dragged into this BS again. Please delete my post from your post.

AmPat
03-02-2012, 02:59 PM
I deleted it. I have no desire to get dragged into this BS again. Please delete my post from your post.

http://i41.tinypic.com/26402fp.pnghttp://i43.tinypic.com/kt5b4.jpghttp://i40.tinypic.com/nd05t0.jpg