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View Full Version : Trayvon Martin DEBUNK part II: Multiple suspensions, criminal behavior



Elspeth
03-26-2012, 09:01 PM
THREE SUSPENSIONS:

Attendance, Graffiti, Marijuana plus pipe


From the Miami Herald:

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/26/2714778/thousands-expected-at-trayvon.html


Multiple suspensions paint complicated portrait of Trayvon Martin

SANFORD -- Miami Gardens teenager Trayvon Martin was suspended from school in October in an incident in which he was found in possession of women’s jewelry and a screwdriver that a schools security staffer described as a “burglary tool,” The Miami Herald has learned.

Trayvon, who claimed that an unnamed friend had given him the jewelry, was not disciplined because of the discovery, but was instead suspended for graffiti, according to a Miami-Dade Schools Police report obtained by The Miami Herald.

A lawyer for the dead teen’s family acknowledged Trayvon had been suspended for graffiti, but said the family knew nothing about the jewelry and the screwdriver, calling the information in the report an attempt to “demonize” the youth.

According to the report, on Oct. 21 staffers monitoring a security camera at Dr. Michael M. Krop Senior High School spotted Trayvon and two other students writing “W.T.F.,” an acronym for “What the f---,” on a hallway locker, according to schools police. The security employee, who knew Trayvon, confronted the teen and looked through his bag for the graffiti marker.

Trayvon’s backpack contained 12 pieces of jewelry, in addition to a watch and a large flathead screwdriver, according to the report, which described the screwdriver as a burglary tool.

Trayvon was asked if the jewelry, which was mostly women’s rings and earrings, belonged to his family or a girlfriend.

“Martin replied it’s not mine. A friend gave it to me,” according to the report. Trayvon declined to name the friend.

School police impounded the jewelry and sent photos of the items to detectives at Miami-Dade police for further investigation.

“Martin was suspended, warned and dismissed for the graffiti,” according to the report prepared by Miami-Dade Schools Police.

That suspension was followed four months later by another one, in February, in which Trayvon was caught with an empty plastic bag with traces of marijuana in it, the boy’s family’s attorney has confirmed. A schools police report obtained by The Miami Herald specifies two items: a bag with marijuana residue and a “marijuana pipe.”

The suspension was the third for the teen. On Monday, the family also acknowledged Trayvon had earlier been suspended for tardiness and truancy.

The reports of the suspensions surfaced as a more complicated portrait of Trayvon began to emerge Monday. Trayvon was shot to death in Sanford on Feb. 26 during a scuffle with neighborhood watch volunteer George Zimmerman. He was suspended from school at the time.

Reacting to the new schools police report, Ben Crump, an attorney for the parents, said they “never heard anything like this about a bag of jewelry….And anyway, it’s completely irrelevant to what happened Feb. 26. They never heard this, and don’t believe it’s true. If it were true, why wouldn’t they call the parents? Why wasn’t he arrested?”

“We think everybody is trying to demonize him.”

Trayvon, who was 17 when he died, had never been arrested, he said.

His mother, Sybrina Fulton, said her son never had any problems with gangs or the police. In fact, she said, when she transferred him out of Carol City High School to be closer to home, the school wanted him to stay at Carol City because they liked him and he was a good student, she said....

Trayvon was killed while serving out the 10-day suspension for the marijuana baggie in Sanford, where his father’s girlfriend lives. Zimmerman, a community watch volunteer who thought Trayvon looked drugged and suspicious called police and later wound up in a fight with him. The two scuffled and Zimmerman shot Trayvon, killing him. He has not been charged.

Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/26/2714778_p2/thousands-expected-at-trayvon.html#storylink=cpy


I copied the bulk of it in case the paper gets pressured to change it.

Elspeth
03-26-2012, 09:21 PM
A link one should take with a grain of salt, but knowing what we now know about Trayvon, this article seems more believable than it did before:

http://beforeitsnews.com/story/1939/020/Was_Trayvon_Martin_a_Drug_Dealer.html
http://www.wagist.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/Ax26X.jpg




Was Trayvon Martin a Drug Dealer?

...It seems that Tray was also on Twitter, but his account seems to have been recently deleted by his family or friends.

His screen name was “@NO_LIMIT_NIGGA, as you can see from the twitpic accountscreenshot above. He was also a member of a twitter hash group #team4dat...

...Another post makes reference to Trayvon having “swung on a bus driver” a few days before he died...

...Several of his friends have posted pictures of rolled blunts to twitter in memorial to Trayvon. There is also fairly direct evidence that Trayvon may have been a small-time drug-dealer.

On Facebook on February 5th, his friend posts on his wall asking to talk business. Trayvon says he doesn’t have a phone available and his friend says, “Damn were u at a nigga needa plant.”

...Unless Trayvon was selling Orchids, it seems fairly reasonable to posit that he may have been somewhat well-known among his friends for selling marijuana....

Kay
03-26-2012, 11:20 PM
http://dailycaller.com/2012/03/26/the-daily-caller-obtains-trayvon-martins-tweets/

Trayvon's tweets are all linked in this article above.
Click on link at the bottom of the article to read them.

Elspeth
03-27-2012, 12:03 AM
http://dailycaller.com/2012/03/26/the-daily-caller-obtains-trayvon-martins-tweets/

Trayvon's tweets are all linked in this article above.
Click on link at the bottom of the article to read them.

Such a sweet boy, ain't he? :friendly_wink:

Lordy, it'll take the night to read this crap.

Elspeth
03-27-2012, 12:14 AM
So far, the tweets are about sex, smoking weed, skipping class, and hating his teachers. So very profound. :biggrin-new: His parents must be so proud.

Rockntractor
03-27-2012, 12:18 AM
His parents must be so proud.

I'm sure his mother is, she is prepared to make a fortune on tee shirts and slogans bearing his name.

Elspeth
03-27-2012, 02:34 AM
I'm sure his mother is, she is prepared to make a fortune on tee shirts and slogans bearing his name.

Well, she's just making lemons into lemonade. :lemo:

It's in the Bible, right? :friendly_wink:

Bailey
03-27-2012, 06:09 AM
I really hope zimmerman gets off if for nothing else just to piss off the likes of Sharpton.

NJCardFan
03-27-2012, 12:44 PM
Is it me or is this Jacob Loughner all over again?

noonwitch
03-27-2012, 01:29 PM
So far, the tweets are about sex, smoking weed, skipping class, and hating his teachers. So very profound. :biggrin-new: His parents must be so proud.


A teenager who posts about smoking weed, skipping class and hating his teachers must have deserved to get shot. Just like Malice Green, an unemployed crackhead, deserved to have the Detroit Police beat him to death with 14 inch long metal flashlights.

I don't like all the activists being involved in this anymore than you do, because it makes it that much less likely that we will ever know what happened between Zimmerman and Martin before Zimmerman fired his gun.


Who knows-maybe Trayvon was "standing his ground" because he was being stalked by some guy in a van, who pulled a gun on him. He's unarmed, he's got to act fast and disable his stalker before he gets shot, but he was too slow. He will never get to tell his side of the story.

Arroyo_Doble
03-27-2012, 01:56 PM
A teenager who posts about smoking weed, skipping class and hating his teachers must have deserved to get shot. Just like Malice Green, an unemployed crackhead, deserved to have the Detroit Police beat him to death with 14 inch long metal flashlights.

I don't like all the activists being involved in this anymore than you do, because it makes it that much less likely that we will ever know what happened between Zimmerman and Martin before Zimmerman fired his gun.


Who knows-maybe Trayvon was "standing his ground" because he was being stalked by some guy in a van, who pulled a gun on him. He's unarmed, he's got to act fast and disable his stalker before he gets shot, but he was too slow. He will never get to tell his side of the story.

That is why you never shoot to wound; you shoot to kill.

Elspeth
03-27-2012, 04:18 PM
A teenager who posts about smoking weed, skipping class and hating his teachers must have deserved to get shot. Just like Malice Green, an unemployed crackhead, deserved to have the Detroit Police beat him to death with 14 inch long metal flashlights.

ROFLMAO!

Press that pedal, woman. You go from zero to self-righteous in under 60 seconds!:biggrin-new:

When you slide off that high horse you rode in on, maybe we'll be nice and tell you that, no, we don't believe that a high school student who smokes weed, skips class, and talks about fucking all the time deserves to die. In fact, we might even share a nice little secret with you: we don't think those topics of conversation are all that unusual for a teenager, especially one who is, in fact, skipping class, smoking weed, and fucking (although probably a lot less than he talked about it.) :cool:

Putting it on Twitter and Facebook seems rather stupid, but young people don't think about how a future employer is going to view their uploaded photos of blunts and their messages about what to do if your dick falls out when you're doing it doggie style (And yeah, that was on the Twitter feed. Every mother's dream, ain't it.):biggrin-new:


I don't like all the activists being involved in this anymore than you do, because it makes it that much less likely that we will ever know what happened between Zimmerman and Martin before Zimmerman fired his gun.


That's exactly the problem. The activists have prevented the truth from coming out. And the actual truth, quite frankly, doesn't sound that horrible--yet. There's nothing here that warrants a "thug" label for Trayvon. What he does look like is a kid in a downward cycle: the 3 suspensions happened in his junior year (16/17). The using (and possible selling) of drugs may be leading to the other behavior changes: missing class, poor judgment (the graffiti and the stolen jewelry), for example. It sounds like he needed some kind of intervention before things really did get worse and the kid ended up arrested or dead.

I have a feeling that's why Mama sent Baby Boy 250 miles away to "safe" Sanford with Mostly Absent Dad. Maybe Mostly Absent Dad could bond with Baby Boy and talk some sense into him. The problem is that Dad's date with his girlfriend came first that Sunday night. According to the Grio (MSNBC's version of "The Root"), Mostly Absent Dad and Girlfriend left Baby Boy at home with Girlfriend's Younger Son. I'm guessing that makes Trayvon the babysitter. The wisdom of leaving a troubled kid as babysitter for a younger one is dubious, but there you have it.

When Dad and girlfriend return, Baby Boy has left the house and, I am guessing, was already dead. Girlfriend's Younger Son must have some story to tell Mostly Absent Dad, because Dad doesn't bother to worry. Everybody goes to bed and Baby Boy is in the morgue. Is it possible that Baby Boy has told Girlfriend's Younger Son that Twenty-Something Cousin is coming to pick him up? Maybe that's why no one worries? Dad has told the Sentinel that he thought his son was with Twenty-Something Cousin. Until Monday morning when Dad finds out that cousin has not seen him. Then Mostly Absent Dad calls the cops to see if Baby Boy has been arrested. (This is what he told the Sentinel)

So here's the deal: we don't know what happened, and that's because the family's story keeps changing. Dad can't seem to tell the truth to save his life; Attorney Crump doesn't care if he's telling truth or fiction; and Mom just holds her hand to her heart and talks about "hurt" and "justice. Meanwhile, the media is adding a saccharine sauce and a chorus of violins with a bass line of racial animus.

In this artificially sweet racial bludgeon of a delivery, it would be nice to get a fact or two. Just sayin.




Who knows-maybe Trayvon was "standing his ground" because he was being stalked by some guy in a van, who pulled a gun on him.

Whoa! Let's add some more imagination to an already overbloated fairy tale. We can also some UFOs if you want, and maybe even a visit from Elvis, fresh out of a coma, who was just trying to get home to Graceland.

MSNBC should hire you.:friendly_wink:

In all seriousness, adding imaginary scenarios to other imaginary scenarios just makes things worse. What most of us on this side of the aisle are trying to do is find out the facts as they really happened. When we find a lie, we expose it. When we find media distortion, we try to fix it. When Trayvon's daddy tells an impossible story or changes his story or can't seem to get his story straight, we point that out. When the attorney makes damning accusations and then has to (very quickly) backtrack, we point that out. When the media shows pictures of Trayvon as a middle school student instead of as a 17-year old, we point that out.

And when Trayvon goes from being a "little boy" with a "baby face" who is angelic in every way, we point out that he was expelled three times, that his father had some expectation of his being arrested, that he caused George Zimmerman some serious injuries. If we sometimes enjoy the process, it's only because the race-baiting of Weird Al Sharpton and his ilk is tearing the country apart, and that finding the real truth, the counterbalance, is a relief from the pain they are dishing out.

NJCardFan
03-27-2012, 05:11 PM
A teenager who posts about smoking weed, skipping class and hating his teachers must have deserved to get shot. Just like Malice Green, an unemployed crackhead, deserved to have the Detroit Police beat him to death with 14 inch long metal flashlights.

I don't like all the activists being involved in this anymore than you do, because it makes it that much less likely that we will ever know what happened between Zimmerman and Martin before Zimmerman fired his gun.


Who knows-maybe Trayvon was "standing his ground" because he was being stalked by some guy in a van, who pulled a gun on him. He's unarmed, he's got to act fast and disable his stalker before he gets shot, but he was too slow. He will never get to tell his side of the story.

Why are you people acting like Zimmerman picked him out of a crowd and shot him for shits and giggles. Question noon, are you as upset about Allen Coon being burned?

Elspeth
03-27-2012, 06:26 PM
Why are you people acting like Zimmerman picked him out of a crowd and shot him for shits and giggles. Question noon, are you as upset about Allen Coon being burned?

Crickets.

Well, it's to be expected. Getting off a high horse is a difficult maneuver, and if you're not careful, you can break something. Better off staying there.

In the meantime:

According to Minnesota Public Radio, Trayvon had no police record.

http://minnesota.publicradio.org/display/web/2012/03/27/trayvon-martin-cast-as-aggressor/


...The state Department of Juvenile Justice confirmed Monday that Martin does not have a juvenile offender record. The information came after a public records request by The Associated Press....


So it's what I thought. The kid was headed in the wrong direction, but it hadn't gotten seriously bad yet. He sorely needed guidance and wasn't getting it.

Kay
03-27-2012, 06:58 PM
I'm sure his mother is, she is prepared to make a fortune on tee shirts and slogans bearing his name.

I am sick of the clip being played over and over of the mother saying
"THEY killed my baby and now THEY want to ruin his reputation too".

THEY = WHITEY I recon.
But Whitey wasn't even there.

Rockntractor
03-27-2012, 07:06 PM
I am sick of the clip being played over and over of the mother saying
"THEY killed my baby and now THEY want to ruin his reputation too".

THEY = WHITEY I recon.
But Whitey wasn't even there.

Do they really want what they had in the fifties? If you keep pushing the majority of people the way they are , sooner or later you may get a result you don't want.

Elspeth
03-27-2012, 07:07 PM
Hey, it's not fact finders who are ruining her son's reputation:

Police: Trayvon protesters ransack store

North Miami Beach Walgreens incident caught on video
(Security Video) (http://www.local10.com/news/Police-Trayvon-protesters-ransack-store/-/1717324/9719674/-/xctonpz/-/index.html)



http://www.local10.com/news/Police-Trayvon-protesters-ransack-store/-/1717324/9719674/-/xctonpz/-/index.html

NORTH MIAMI BEACH, Fla. -

North Miami Beach police said surveillance video shows dozens of high school students demonstrating in the Trayvon Martin case Friday ransacking a Walgreens store.

The incident occurred during a walkout from North Miami Beach Senior High School in support of Martin, 17, who was fatally shot in Sanford....

Minutes after walking out of their school Friday, a large group of students walked through the streets of North Miami Beach. Along the way, they stopped at a Walgreens at 163rd Street and 15th Avenue at about 10:40 a.m.

Surveillance video shows dozens of teenagers running through the store. Police said about 80 to 100 students stormed in, ransacking the shelves, before the school's vice principal ordered everyone outside.

North Miami Beach police said students damaged items worth about $150....

Adam Wood
03-27-2012, 08:08 PM
Is it me or is this Jacob Loughner all over again?


A teenager who posts about smoking weed, skipping class and hating his teachers must have deserved to get shot. Just like Malice Green, an unemployed crackhead, deserved to have the Detroit Police beat him to death with 14 inch long metal flashlights.

I don't like all the activists being involved in this anymore than you do, because it makes it that much less likely that we will ever know what happened between Zimmerman and Martin before Zimmerman fired his gun.


Who knows-maybe Trayvon was "standing his ground" because he was being stalked by some guy in a van, who pulled a gun on him. He's unarmed, he's got to act fast and disable his stalker before he gets shot, but he was too slow. He will never get to tell his side of the story.Holy emotional outburst, Batman!

nightflight
03-27-2012, 08:23 PM
Great roundup of facts from Sister Toldjah:

http://sistertoldjah.com/archives/2012/03/27/fail-democrat-msm-narrative-falls-apart/

Kay
03-27-2012, 08:36 PM
Hey, it's not fact finders who are ruining her son's reputation:

Police: Trayvon protesters ransack store

North Miami Beach Walgreens incident caught on video
(Security Video) (http://www.local10.com/news/Police-Trayvon-protesters-ransack-store/-/1717324/9719674/-/xctonpz/-/index.html)

Yeah, typical of the Jackson-Sharpton brigade.
Any excuse to loot and burn down the neighborhood.

Elspeth
03-27-2012, 09:20 PM
Great roundup of facts from Sister Toldjah:

http://sistertoldjah.com/archives/2012/03/27/fail-democrat-msm-narrative-falls-apart/

Fantastic!

This backs up what we have been saying here:


– It is confirmed as per the 911 call Zimmerman made that night that once he was on foot looking for Trayvon Martin that he had LOST sight of Martin.


Just look at the timeline (http://www.conservativeunderground.com/forum505/showthread.php?48179-Timeline-thread-Trayvon-Martin-Stand-your-ground) we have here.


Police say there is about a one minute gap in between the time of end of Zimmerman’s phone call to them where they don’t know what happened and after that one minute is what they hear on the 911 call made by the resident as the struggle is in progress.
[/B]

This is huge. It indicates that there was no post-phone call pursuit, as we have been saying all along. There was one pursuit: it was 25 seconds long. It ended almost two minutes before the end of the George's call to non-emergency dispatch. So our timeline is now:

0.00: (approx. 7:00 pm): Zimmerman's call to non-emergency dispatch. He is in his vehicle

0.58-2:06: Trayvon approaches Zimmerman's vehicle.

2.06: Trayvon changes his mind and starts to run. Zimmerman still in his SUV.

2.10: Zimmerman gets out of his car. (2.10-2.14)

2:14-2:39: Zimmerman pursues Trayvon on foot. He is winded. Huffing and puffing. (Windedness: 2.20-2.45 on the tape)

2.23: Dispatch asks if Zimmerman is in pursuit.

2.26: "We don't need you to do this."

2.39: Trayvon completely disappears. Zimmerman no longer sees him.

2.39-2.45: Zimmerman's breathing calms down

2:45-4.11: Zimmerman and dispatch discuss where to meet police officer; Zimmerman gives his name and address, but registers fear that Trayvon might still be around somewhere. Clearly he doesn't see him or know where he is.

4.11-5.11 (approx): Unclear. Zimmerman claims he walked back to van and Trayvon attacked him.

5.11 (approx): First 911 calls from neighbors start.






Zimmerman told police that he’d lost sight of Martin and was headed back to his SUV when Martin confronted him and that’s when the altercation allegedly started. Zimmerman’s claims are that Martin asked him what his problem was and said that he had a problem now, and punched him in the nose and slammed his head against the sidewalk and was on top of him, beating him up, and that he (Martin) was reaching for his (Zimmerman’s) gun, and that he (Zimmerman) had no choice but to shoot to save his life.

This we have to wait to be confirmed in its entirely, but there is a lot of evidence to to back most of it up.


Gotta read her whole post: http://sistertoldjah.com/archives/2012/03/27/fail-democrat-msm-narrative-falls-apart/

However, she makes many of the same points we've been making here, which is a GOOD thing. It means that there are actual facts that can be backed up.

Elspeth
03-27-2012, 09:51 PM
Perfect. Just Perfect.


http://sistertoldjah.com/archives/2012/03/27/fail-democrat-msm-narrative-falls-apart/

-Do those who plan on murdering someone typically call the police and give them their whereabouts before they commit the act? George Zimmerman did.

- Do those who plan on targeting someone for murder typically give the police all their personal information (name, address, telephone number) prior to commencing with their sinister plot? George Zimmerman did.

- Do those whose intent it was to kill someone tell the police to call them back so they can tell them where they are while they are tracking someone they view as suspicious in their neighborhood? George Zimmerman did.

- Do those who have a bloodlust for gunning down anyone who looks suspicious – black or otherwise – call 911 at all to report the activity rather than take the law into their own hands? George Zimmerman did. In fact, on the phone call he made to 911, he first describes Trayvon was walking towards his SUV like Trayvon was going to confront him then. If his intent was to kill, don’t you think he’d have pulled his gun at that time and fired?

- Do people who are on top of someone else beating them up usually call for help multiple times?

Odysseus
03-27-2012, 10:33 PM
Okay, here's my take on this:

I don't know enough of the facts to make an informed judgment about who is at fault in this incident. Until the inquiry is complete, none of us will. My gut feeling is that Zimmerman was a cop wannabe and that Martin was a thug wannabe, but I don't know enough to be sure, and neither does Al Sharpton or Barack Obama, who may end up having another beer summit when this is over. What I do know is that Obama desperately needs to energize his base and make his reelection campaign a racial one, in which whites are compelled by guilt to vote him a second term. As a result of his cynical manipulation of a tragic shooting, racial animosity is increasing throughout the country. Obama, Sharpton, Jackson and the media are playing with fire, and because of their recklessness, something is going to burn.

NJCardFan
03-27-2012, 10:45 PM
Okay, here's my take on this:

I don't know enough of the facts to make an informed judgment about who is at fault in this incident. Until the inquiry is complete, none of us will. My gut feeling is that Zimmerman was a cop wannabe and that Martin was a thug wannabe, but I don't know enough to be sure, and neither does Al Sharpton or Barack Obama, who may end up having another beer summit when this is over. What I do know is that Obama desperately needs to energize his base and make his reelection campaign a racial one, in which whites are compelled by guilt to vote him a second term. As a result of his cynical manipulation of a tragic shooting, racial animosity is increasing throughout the country. Obama, Sharpton, Jackson and the media are playing with fire, and because of their recklessness, something is going to burn.

I was about to post the same thing. This has less to do with the participants and more to do with politics. In typical leftist fashion, Obama and this cast of clowns is taking this cause celebre and making it a political platform. They could give 2 shits about Tayvon Martin. Thousands of young blacks are killed every year but for some reason they chose this and make it a racial platform. But they're falling on their faces because as hard as they are trying, the only people you are going to convince that George Zimmerman is white are your already existing moonbats. Anyone else with a brain cell will see him as mixed race at least. So, no, this is politics through and through.

Elspeth
03-27-2012, 11:09 PM
Okay, here's my take on this:

I don't know enough of the facts to make an informed judgment about who is at fault in this incident. Until the inquiry is complete, none of us will. My gut feeling is that Zimmerman was a cop wannabe and that Martin was a thug wannabe, but I don't know enough to be sure, and neither does Al Sharpton or Barack Obama, who may end up having another beer summit when this is over. What I do know is that Obama desperately needs to energize his base and make his reelection campaign a racial one, in which whites are compelled by guilt to vote him a second term. As a result of his cynical manipulation of a tragic shooting, racial animosity is increasing throughout the country. Obama, Sharpton, Jackson and the media are playing with fire, and because of their recklessness, something is going to burn.

Everyone has an opinion but almost no one has analyzed the tapes and the available evidence. They just project their own ideas onto the situation. I personally don't care if George Zimmerman wanted to be a cop or if Trayvon Martin wanted to be all "gangsta". It's immaterial. I have been looking at timelines all week and keep posting them in the hope that people will actually look at them, along with facts about the physical traits of the two males, and see how little time there actually was between events. (I even posted a short version of the timeline on this thread, just above your post.)


My take on the situation is based on Zimmerman's phone call to non-emergency police dispatch and my analysis of that call. The only "pursuit" Zimmerman made was 25 seconds long during the phone call with the police and ended over a minute before the phone call ended. Zimmerman stopped trying to follow Trayvon because the kid had run off and disappeared. You can there hear his breathing calm down. (He was 5'9'' and 240; overweight.)

Then, there was only a minute between the end of that call and the beginning of the 911 calls from the neighbors. That minute is what is in dispute. Just that minute. When Zimmerman hung up with dispatch, he didn't know where Trayvon was. The kid had run off.

Now which is more likely to have happened in that minute considering the facts:

a. that George Zimmerman ran his overweight body around looking for a kid who was nowhere in sight, somehow found him, and then threatened him verbally or physically; and that both males made it back to the SUV in time to be having a physical altercation there in time for the neighbors to call 911

OR

b. that Zimmerman finished walking back to his SUV and was getting into it when he was attacked from behind by Trayvon who had quickly returned to the scene from wherever he was hiding

Which is more likely?

I don't give a shit about the psychology or the racist accusations or the gangsta or the pot. I care about the fucking timeline and the facts on the ground as they are now known.

I know what I think happened.


EDITED TO ADD:

Sorry if I seem really angry, but the whole damned country seems to be running its mouth over this case without having a fucking clue that the "pursuit" was 25 seconds and was over before the call with the police was done. I'm tired of the projection: the Emmott Till comparisons and the "racism" accusations. Nobody fact checks. And Zimmerman's fate is going to depend on that.

Rockntractor
03-27-2012, 11:18 PM
What I see is a district attorney already looked at the case and on the basis of all the evidence presented to him he chose not to press charges, I'm sure he had more to study than I have or anyone here, his findings were discarded because they did not fit the narrative that liberals had already written.
The end result has already been decided and they will keep on rearranging the officials and the facts until they come up with a match for their conclusions.

Odysseus
03-27-2012, 11:21 PM
Sorry if I seem really angry, but the whole damned country seems to be running its mouth over this case without having a fucking clue that the "pursuit" was 25 seconds and was over before the call with the police was done. I'm tired of the projection: the Emmott Till comparisons and the "racism" accusations. Nobody fact checks. And Zimmerman's fate is going to depend on that.

Not just Zimmerman's. Obama is using this to keep himself in office, and even if he fails, he will raise the level of animosity between blacks and whites to a fever pitch. Think about the racial arsonists who inflamed public opinion for months after the Rodney King beating, and the resulting riots when the evidence didn't support their narrative. People are going to end up dying because of this, and the race hustlers don't care.

Elspeth
03-27-2012, 11:25 PM
Not just Zimmerman's. Obama is using this to keep himself in office, and even if he fails, he will raise the level of animosity between blacks and whites to a fever pitch. Think about the racial arsonists who inflamed public opinion for months after the Rodney King beating, and the resulting riots when the evidence didn't support their narrative. People are going to end up dying because of this, and the race hustlers don't care.

I thoroughly get that, and it's making me sick. These people are using this tragic set of circumstances to create racial animus for the sake of a damned election. None of this helps the country. It just puts a very inept person back in office.

I can't imagine being Zimmerman and being in the middle of this firestorm. The only thing that can liberate him are the facts--and a damned good attorney, which I don't think he has.

Did you at least read the timeline?

txradioguy
03-28-2012, 04:03 AM
Yeah, typical of the Jackson-Sharpton brigade.
Any excuse to loot and burn down the neighborhood.

It's the Florida edition of Freddies Fashion Mart!

noonwitch
03-28-2012, 01:03 PM
ROFLMAO!

Press that pedal, woman. You go from zero to self-righteous in under 60 seconds!:biggrin-new:

When you slide off that high horse you rode in on, maybe we'll be nice and tell you that, no, we don't believe that a high school student who smokes weed, skips class, and talks about fucking all the time deserves to die. In fact, we might even share a nice little secret with you: we don't think those topics of conversation are all that unusual for a teenager, especially one who is, in fact, skipping class, smoking weed, and fucking (although probably a lot less than he talked about it.) :cool:

Putting it on Twitter and Facebook seems rather stupid, but young people don't think about how a future employer is going to view their uploaded photos of blunts and their messages about what to do if your dick falls out when you're doing it doggie style (And yeah, that was on the Twitter feed. Every mother's dream, ain't it.):biggrin-new:



That's exactly the problem. The activists have prevented the truth from coming out. And the actual truth, quite frankly, doesn't sound that horrible--yet. There's nothing here that warrants a "thug" label for Trayvon. What he does look like is a kid in a downward cycle: the 3 suspensions happened in his junior year (16/17). The using (and possible selling) of drugs may be leading to the other behavior changes: missing class, poor judgment (the graffiti and the stolen jewelry), for example. It sounds like he needed some kind of intervention before things really did get worse and the kid ended up arrested or dead.

I have a feeling that's why Mama sent Baby Boy 250 miles away to "safe" Sanford with Mostly Absent Dad. Maybe Mostly Absent Dad could bond with Baby Boy and talk some sense into him. The problem is that Dad's date with his girlfriend came first that Sunday night. According to the Grio (MSNBC's version of "The Root"), Mostly Absent Dad and Girlfriend left Baby Boy at home with Girlfriend's Younger Son. I'm guessing that makes Trayvon the babysitter. The wisdom of leaving a troubled kid as babysitter for a younger one is dubious, but there you have it.

When Dad and girlfriend return, Baby Boy has left the house and, I am guessing, was already dead. Girlfriend's Younger Son must have some story to tell Mostly Absent Dad, because Dad doesn't bother to worry. Everybody goes to bed and Baby Boy is in the morgue. Is it possible that Baby Boy has told Girlfriend's Younger Son that Twenty-Something Cousin is coming to pick him up? Maybe that's why no one worries? Dad has told the Sentinel that he thought his son was with Twenty-Something Cousin. Until Monday morning when Dad finds out that cousin has not seen him. Then Mostly Absent Dad calls the cops to see if Baby Boy has been arrested. (This is what he told the Sentinel)

So here's the deal: we don't know what happened, and that's because the family's story keeps changing. Dad can't seem to tell the truth to save his life; Attorney Crump doesn't care if he's telling truth or fiction; and Mom just holds her hand to her heart and talks about "hurt" and "justice. Meanwhile, the media is adding a saccharine sauce and a chorus of violins with a bass line of racial animus.

In this artificially sweet racial bludgeon of a delivery, it would be nice to get a fact or two. Just sayin.





Whoa! Let's add some more imagination to an already overbloated fairy tale. We can also some UFOs if you want, and maybe even a visit from Elvis, fresh out of a coma, who was just trying to get home to Graceland.

MSNBC should hire you.:friendly_wink:

In all seriousness, adding imaginary scenarios to other imaginary scenarios just makes things worse. What most of us on this side of the aisle are trying to do is find out the facts as they really happened. When we find a lie, we expose it. When we find media distortion, we try to fix it. When Trayvon's daddy tells an impossible story or changes his story or can't seem to get his story straight, we point that out. When the attorney makes damning accusations and then has to (very quickly) backtrack, we point that out. When the media shows pictures of Trayvon as a middle school student instead of as a 17-year old, we point that out.

And when Trayvon goes from being a "little boy" with a "baby face" who is angelic in every way, we point out that he was expelled three times, that his father had some expectation of his being arrested, that he caused George Zimmerman some serious injuries. If we sometimes enjoy the process, it's only because the race-baiting of Weird Al Sharpton and his ilk is tearing the country apart, and that finding the real truth, the counterbalance, is a relief from the pain they are dishing out.


After that post (and the hundreds of others that you have posted on this topic), you think I'm riding a high horse? You refer to Trayvon as "Baby Boy" and his father as "Absent Dad", yet you refer to the shooter by his name, George Zimmerman. You make a lot of judgemental guesses as to why he was staying with his dad, what was going on in the home, and so on, but that is not evidence regarding his death and isn't even admissible if the case comes to trial.


I don't care whether Trayvon was a perfect kid. I don't care if his family is perfect. I care that an unarmed 17 year old was shot by a "neighborhood watch" volunteer who was told by the police to stop following the kid, and that the original prosecutor took the shooter's word for it that it was self-defense without much of an investigation.

Do you know what it will come down to-the tapes of the 911 calls that the FBI is evaluating. If the screaming voice in the backround is determined to be Martin, not Zimmerman, the latter is going to be charged. If it is determined that it is George screaming, than he will not be charged.

Starbuck
03-28-2012, 02:16 PM
.............. I care that an unarmed 17 year old was shot by a "neighborhood watch" volunteer .................

While said unarmed kid was pounding an innocent man's head into mush on the pavement, having already broken said innocent man's nose.
Notice how you place neighborhood watch in quotation marks. Gee, Noony, why'd ya do that? :rolleyes:

noonwitch
03-28-2012, 02:23 PM
While said unarmed kid was pounding an innocent man's head into mush on the pavement, having already broken said innocent man's nose.
Notice how you place neighborhood watch in quotation marks. Gee, Noony, why'd ya do that? :rolleyes:


It has not been established that the kid wasn't acting in self-defense. Mr. Zimmerman was told by the police not to follow Trayvon, and he did anyways.

NJCardFan
03-28-2012, 03:17 PM
It has not been established that the kid wasn't acting in self-defense. Mr. Zimmerman was told by the police not to follow Trayvon, and he did anyways.

Wow, you libs really like to glean what you want from something don't you. A 9-1-1 operator, or in this case, a non-emergency call number operator is in no way "the police". For the love of frigging Pete stop this idiocy. These operators aren't even law enforcement. THEY ARE FRIGGING OPERATORS, CIVILIANS!!! Before long you people are going to make it so it was the chief of police who personally took Zimmerman's call and begged, no, pleaded him not to follow Martin.

Elspeth
03-28-2012, 03:27 PM
I don't care whether Trayvon was a perfect kid. I don't care if his family is perfect. I care that an unarmed 17 year old was shot by a "neighborhood watch" volunteer who was told by the police to stop following the kid, and that the original prosecutor took the shooter's word for it that it was self-defense without much of an investigation.

The foot "pursuit" was 25 seconds long.

The dispatch officer told Zimmerman "We don't need you to do that", (about 15 seconds in) and after that, there is exactly 10 seconds before Trayvon disappears completely, and George Zimmerman loses complete track of him. He then stops pursuing because he can no longer do so.

His breathing also begins to calm down at this point, indicating that he is no longer moving quickly. The guy is overweight and easily winded. Before the end of the call, Zimmerman is completely calm in his breathing and has agreed to meet the police officer being sent. He also expresses fear to dispatch that Trayvon may be still in the area

There is then 1 minute between the end of George Zimmerman's call and the beginning of the stream of 911 calls. In that short time, a serious enough altercation began that neighbors started calling the police. Zimmerman could not see Trayvon and had no idea where he was. A hidden Trayvon could have seen Zimmerman's SUV, by the mailboxes. Which is the more likely pursuer in this scenario?

Add this to the two witnesses--one a 13-year old black teen--who see Trayvon clearly on top of Zimmerman. One witness identifies the screamer as Zimmerman. An audio analysis is, of course, vital here.

I keep posting timelines for a reason. The foot PURSUIT you are all up in arms about was 25 seconds at most and occurred during the police call. And Trayvon actually spends a minute approaching Zimmerman's car before the pursuit. One could argue that had Trayvon simply run (instead of approaching Zimmerman's vehicle) he would have been fine. George was overweight; Trayvon was tall, skinny, and in the best shape of his life. He could have easily outrun Zimmerman, gone home and locked the door. He didn't do that.

Now in terms of his family, I don't like that the dad can't seem to tell a consistent story and that his facts keep changing. I don't like the fact that he left a teenager on suspension for drugs home alone in a house in charge of a younger child (the girlfriend's kid.) I don't like the fact that the dad doesn't contact the police until the next morning and just assumes his kid is with a cousin, whom he also doesn't call. This is just irresponsible parenting.

I don't like the fact that the fact that family's legal team can't show an honest picture of Trayvon at his current age, and that they keep flashing pictures of when the kid was in middle school. I don't like the fact that they are creating a martyr out of a kid who contributed to the situation by approaching Zimmerman's vehicle. I don't like the fact that they are insistent on tearing the country apart over a situation that is not clear cut, but has a great deal of nuance.

Now was Zimmerman overzealous? Yes, he was. Would I want to be his neighbor? Probably not.

But did he hunt Trayvon down like a dog and shoot him in cold blood?

No.

Are Trayvon's family and defense team misleading the public?

Yes.

Gentleman Pirate
03-28-2012, 03:32 PM
A 9-1-1 operator, or in this case, a non-emergency call number operator is in no way "the police". For the love of frigging Pete stop this idiocy. These operators aren't even law enforcement. THEY ARE FRIGGING OPERATORS, CIVILIANS!!! Before long you people are going to make it so it was the chief of police who personally took Zimmerman's call and begged, no, pleaded him not to follow Martin.

Do you have a citation for this? Because up here in Washington state, the non-emergency number for our local police goes to the watch sergeants phone at the police station. Last time I checked he/she wasn't a civilian but a police officer.

Elspeth
03-28-2012, 03:33 PM
While said unarmed kid was pounding an innocent man's head into mush on the pavement, having already broken said innocent man's nose.
Notice how you place neighborhood watch in quotation marks. Gee, Noony, why'd ya do that? :rolleyes:

Because, technically, George wasn't officially registered with the police department as official Neighborhood Watch. The HOA, however, did appoint him and there is apparently an HOA newsletter saying so; hence, there is also some talk of the family suing the HOA. And they may be able to do that since the HOA did not get George officially registered and trained.

Adam Wood
03-28-2012, 03:39 PM
After that post (and the hundreds of others that you have posted on this topic), you think I'm riding a high horse? You refer to Trayvon as "Baby Boy" and his father as "Absent Dad", yet you refer to the shooter by his name, George Zimmerman. You make a lot of judgemental guesses as to why he was staying with his dad, what was going on in the home, and so on, but that is not evidence regarding his death and isn't even admissible if the case comes to trial.


I don't care whether Trayvon was a perfect kid. I don't care if his family is perfect. I care that an unarmed 17 year old was shot by a "neighborhood watch" volunteer who was told by the police to stop following the kid,No, he wasn't. You people keep repeating that lie, and it continues to not be true. And eve if it was, it has absolutely no relevance whatsoever. When are you people going to get that through your heads?


and that the original prosecutor took the shooter's word for it that it was self-defense without much of an investigation. Also patently false. There has been an investigation, a thorough one. The meme of the "botched investigation" just plain isn't true.


Do you know what it will come down to-the tapes of the 911 calls that the FBI is evaluating. If the screaming voice in the backround is determined to be Martin, not Zimmerman, the latter is going to be charged. If it is determined that it is George screaming, than he will not be charged.Not relevant either. Sorry.

Elspeth
03-28-2012, 03:41 PM
It has not been established that the kid wasn't acting in self-defense. Mr. Zimmerman was told by the police not to follow Trayvon, and he did anyways.

WRONG.

The foot pursuit was 25 SECONDS.

25 SECONDS.

It starts from 2:14 on the tape, when George leaves his vehicle, and (at most) goes to 2:39 on the tape when Trayvon disappears. For the rest of the call, George has no idea where Trayvon is.

There is then about a minute between the end of George's call and the beginning of the 911 calls. In that minute, an altercation starts. There's not enough time for a lengthy pursuit, and not even a short one, since George doesn't know where Trayvon is. He'd have to search in the dark: highly unlikely as afraid as George was.

Elspeth
03-28-2012, 03:43 PM
Here, Noonwitch

A real, honest to God timeline of George Zimmerman's call to the police:


0.00: (a little after 7:00 pm): Zimmerman's call to non-emergency dispatch. He is in his vehicle

0.48: Zimmerman notices Trayvon staring at him.

0.58-2:06: Trayvon approaches Zimmerman's vehicle.

2.06: Trayvon changes his mind and starts to run. Zimmerman still in his SUV.

2.10: Zimmerman gets out of his SUV. (2.10-2.14)

2:14-2:39: Zimmerman pursues Trayvon on foot. He is winded. Huffing and puffing. (Windedness: 2.20-2.45 on the tape)

2.23: Dispatch asks if Zimmerman is in pursuit.

2.26: "We don't need you to do this."

2.39: Trayvon completely disappears. Zimmerman no longer sees him.

2.39-2.45: Zimmerman's breathing calms

2:45-4.11: Zimmerman and dispatch discuss where to meet police officer; Zimmerman gives his name and address, but registers fear that Trayvon might still be around somewhere. Clearly Zimmerman doesn't see him or know where he is.

4.11-5.11 (approx): Unclear. Zimmerman claims he walked back to van and Trayvon attacked him.

5.11 (approx): First 911 calls from neighbors start.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9A-gp8mrdw

Adam Wood
03-28-2012, 03:53 PM
Do you have a citation for this? Because up here in Washington state, the non-emergency number for our local police goes to the watch sergeants phone at the police station. Last time I checked he/she wasn't a civilian but a police officer.I do (http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/19/2702685_p2/floridas-controversial-self-defense.html).


Zimmerman, who was in his truck, told the dispatcher that the suspicious person had his hand in his waist band — suggesting he thought the teen was armed, a fact that could bolster his defense. “Something’s wrong with him. He’s coming to check me out,” Zimmerman said.

As Zimmerman narrated, the dispatcher asked: “Are you following him?”

“Yeah,” Zimmerman replied.

“We don’t need you to do that,” the dispatcher said.

An interpretation of that exchange could be key in deciding whether Zimmerman acted recklessly in pursuing Martin. Sanford Police Chief Bill Lee, in an interview last week, suggested that Zimmerman did not.

“That’s another question we get quite often: ‘He was told not to follow him.’’’ Lee said in an interview last week. “Well that’s a recommendation or a suggestion. It’s not a lawful order.”


It doesn't matter if it's the local chief of police or the ghost of J. Edgar Hoover on the other end of that telephone line, one does not have any obligation to obey someone on a telephone.

hai
03-28-2012, 03:56 PM
Now it gets uglier. The person was caught with burglary tools and jewerly on him. http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/26/2714778/thousands-expected-at-trayvon.html

Adam Wood
03-28-2012, 03:56 PM
Because, technically, George wasn't officially registered with the police department as official Neighborhood Watch. The HOA, however, did appoint him and there is apparently an HOA newsletter saying so; hence, there is also some talk of the family suing the HOA. And they may be able to do that since the HOA did not get George officially registered and trained.This whole "official" neighborhood watch crap is nothing but a load of bunk. There is no obligation anywhere for anyone to register their particular private organization with some other organization. I've been in three different neighborhood watches in my life (including one that I actually started with a few other neighbors), and not a one of them even made mention of any national neighborhood watch group, much less some sort of registration with same.

The "national neighborhood watch" crap is nothing but a hollow Leftist canard. Forget about it.

Elspeth
03-28-2012, 04:02 PM
I do (http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/19/2702685_p2/floridas-controversial-self-defense.html).




It doesn't matter if it's the local chief of police or the ghost of J. Edgar Hoover on the other end of that telephone line, one does not have any obligation to obey someone on a telephone.

And the point is moot anyway because Trayvon disappears less than 10 seconds after the dispatcher tells him not to pursue. George has to stop pursuing because Trayvon is no longer visible for him to pursue. (George does say "OK" when told to stop)

Until the end of the call George simply doesn't know where Trayvon is. Then there is only about a minute before the 911 calls start pouring in reporting the altercation.

George stopped pursuing Trayvon after 25 seconds. Listen to the tape and follow along.

Elspeth
03-28-2012, 04:04 PM
This whole "official" neighborhood watch crap is nothing but a load of bunk. There is no obligation anywhere for anyone to register their particular private organization with some other organization. I've been in three different neighborhood watches in my life (including one that I actually started with a few other neighbors), and not a one of them even made mention of any national neighborhood watch group, much less some sort of registration with same.

The "national neighborhood watch" crap is nothing but a hollow Leftist canard. Forget about it.

The problem is they are using it to support their "self-appointed" meme. The only way to combat that is to show that he really was appointed--by the HOA. Any problems with national Neighborhood Watch training or registration are the HOA's fault and (soon to be) their legal headache.

Gentleman Pirate
03-28-2012, 04:07 PM
I do (http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/19/2702685_p2/floridas-controversial-self-defense.html).




It doesn't matter if it's the local chief of police or the ghost of J. Edgar Hoover on the other end of that telephone line, one does not have any obligation to obey someone on a telephone.


Still doesn't answer my question. Is there a citation that the non-emergency line is being answered by a civilian in the city of Sanford? I never asked if it was a lawful order.Lawful order or not, I bet a jury of George's peers will take into account if a civilian who has no police experience or an officer with 20 years experience who answered the phone told him to stay put has any bearing on his fault in this case.

Arroyo_Doble
03-28-2012, 04:26 PM
Now it gets uglier. The person was caught with burglary tools and jewerly on him. http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/26/2714778/thousands-expected-at-trayvon.html


My friend Norm invented a new drink. It is vodka and orange juice. He calls it a "burglary tool."

jediab
03-28-2012, 05:04 PM
Since Zimmerman by liberal standards is a latino, has anyone heard of the latino community coming to his defense?

Starbuck
03-28-2012, 05:24 PM
Since Zimmerman by liberal standards is a latino, has anyone heard of the latino community coming to his defense?

Why would they? They all carry guns, too.:biggrin-new:

They may be a little puzzled as to why Zimmerman didn't empty the clip, though.:cool:

Adam Wood
03-28-2012, 05:34 PM
Why would they? They all carry guns, too.:biggrin-new:

They may be a little puzzled as to why Zimmerman didn't empty the clip, though.:cool:It was a Kel-Tec 9mm, not a TEC-9, and Zimmerman wasn't in a lowered '78 Oldsmobile at the time. :biggrin-new:

JB
03-28-2012, 09:09 PM
I could search but I'm not interested in wading through the crap so I will ask those following the case:

I heard/read that the Sanford cops wanted to press charges but the state DA said no. Any truth to that?

Adam Wood
03-28-2012, 09:33 PM
I could search but I'm not interested in wading through the crap so I will ask those following the case:

I heard/read that the Sanford cops wanted to press charges but the state DA said no. Any truth to that?Yes (http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57405671/trayvon-martin-killing-investigation-starts-over/). We know that the lead detective wanted to press charges. It's unknown whether anyone else in the department felt the same way.


The Sanford Police Department's lead investigator initially pursued manslaughter charges against Zimmerman, but was told by the state attorney that there wasn't enough evidence.

[....]

The next day, detectives re-enacted the shooting with Zimmerman at the scene. They also discovered Zimmerman had two prior arrests: one for assaulting a cop, the other for domestic abuse.

For the next two weeks, lead investigator Chris Serino pursued a manslaughter charge against Zimmerman.

Police interviewed at least six witnesses. But none of them saw how the confrontation began or the shooting that ended it.

Public pressure grew. On March 12, police gave the case to State Attorney Norm Wolfinger. He told them they needed more evidence to arrest Zimmerman.

So much for the whole "the police never investigated" meme.

JB
03-28-2012, 09:36 PM
Now there's (supposedly) a police video, right after the incident, where Zimmerman is not bloodied and bruised.

What a clusterfuck this thing is. Freaking 24 hour instant gratification news cycle is going to get us all killed.

I'm going back in my bunker. :)

Adam Wood
03-28-2012, 09:41 PM
Now there's (supposedly) a police video, right after the incident, where Zimmerman is not bloodied and bruised.

What a clusterfuck this thing is. Freaking 24 hour instant gratification news cycle is going to get us all killed.

I'm going back in my bunker. :)He was treated at the scene by EMS. I wouldn't expect him to be beaten to a pulp in his face, since sweet, angelic Trayvon who would never hurt a fly was busy smashing the back of Zimmerman's melon into the sidewalk.

JB
03-28-2012, 09:47 PM
He was treated at the scene by EMS. I wouldn't expect him to be beaten to a pulp in his face, since sweet, angelic Trayvon who would never hurt a fly was busy smashing the back of Zimmerman's melon into the sidewalk.I didn't watch the vid yet, but will.

Here's a link to the story and video. I imagine each side will decide for themselves: Link (http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/trayvon-martin-case-exclusive-surveillance-video-george-zimmerman/story?id=16022897)

Adam Wood
03-28-2012, 09:59 PM
I didn't watch the vid yet, but will.

Here's a link to the story and video. I imagine each side will decide for themselves: Link (http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/trayvon-martin-case-exclusive-surveillance-video-george-zimmerman/story?id=16022897)Interesting. I don't know if there is enough detail there to really say one way or the other, and we don't know how long this was after the event, which may be important. For example, any time I've gotten, say, a black eye in a fight (or even just smacked my head on something by accident), it's quite a few hours before I actually bruise up. If Zimmerman was only on the scene for, say, 30 minutes, and then a ten-minute ride downtown, then he may not have had anything showing up yet on him.

But, I have said all along that I will keep an open mind on this, and I am man enough to admit that I can't definitively see anything that appears to be bruising on his head, though I can't say definitively that I don't see anything that looks like bruising, either.

NJCardFan
03-28-2012, 10:01 PM
I didn't watch the vid yet, but will.

Here's a link to the story and video. I imagine each side will decide for themselves: Link (http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/trayvon-martin-case-exclusive-surveillance-video-george-zimmerman/story?id=16022897)

Can't see a thing in that video. That said, this case is going down the rabbit hole and in the end Zimmerman is going to be arrested not because he committed a crime but because of political pressure. Is that really justice?

JB
03-28-2012, 10:12 PM
Can't see a thing in that video. That said, this case is going down the rabbit hole and in the end Zimmerman is going to be arrested not because he committed a crime but because of political pressure. Is that really justice?Just watched it. He looks pretty undamaged to me. Although I am waiting for someone to come out and say "that's not George".

If he's charged criminally it will be interesting to hear what changed from then and now. Civilly the dude probably doesn't stand a chance. Have to extract that revenge somehow.

NJCardFan
03-28-2012, 10:21 PM
Just watched it. He looks pretty undamaged to me. Although I am waiting for someone to come out and say "that's not George".

If he's charged criminally it will be interesting to hear what changed from then and now. Civilly the dude probably doesn't stand a chance. Have to extract that revenge somehow.

Well, who's George? The bald guy in the video or this guy:

http://www.singleblackmale.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/George-Zimmerman.jpg

But re-watching the video, the 2 men look nothing alike. Does the guy in the video look like a 220lb man to you?

Elspeth
03-28-2012, 11:27 PM
But re-watching the video, the 2 men look nothing alike. Does the guy in the video look like a 220lb man to you?

ABC News has their logo and a rectangular box over this guy's head and face when he is closest to the screen and when you might actually see something. There's not enough to detail to tell if there are injuries. Even without the box, the video is just too far away for detail. Zimmerman was treated at the scene by the paramedic, so you wouldn't expect blood gushing out. Also, some injuries don't show until the next day: bruising for example. I wouldn't expect a black eye instantly, for example. Zimmerman did go to the hospital the next day and I imagine there was a lot more bruising then.

I will say he looks thinner than the 250 the police estimated his weight to be, but he is as short as I imagined.

I know the DUmmies will be all over this one, but it really doesn't show much.

Elspeth
03-28-2012, 11:33 PM
Just watched it. He looks pretty undamaged to me. Although I am waiting for someone to come out and say "that's not George".

If he's charged criminally it will be interesting to hear what changed from then and now. Civilly the dude probably doesn't stand a chance. Have to extract that revenge somehow.

Not enough detail to tell about his injuries. He did go to the hospital the next day and it would be interesting to see the report.

Weird Al Sharpton is pushing for a criminal prosecution, and in fact, the Justice Department has now decided to investigate the entire Sanford Police force. (http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/state/trayvon-martin-case-department-of-justice-to-investigate-2266580.html)


SANFORD — The Trayvon Martin case is bringing more scrutiny on the Sanford Police Department. The Department of Justice will now investigate all cases handled by the police department, after receiving complaints from Sanford citizens.

It's been more than a month since 17-year-old Martin was killed and only a week since the Department of Justice, the U.S. Attorney's Office and the FBI launched investigations into why George Zimmerman shot him. Now, the Department of Justice is launching another investigation into the entire Sanford Police Department.

"The citizens of Sanford will continue to have some idea that their concerns would be heard by an independent agency when they have issues with the Sanford Police Department," said Sanford City Manager Norton Bonaparte.

Bonaparte announced the new investigation Tuesday afternoon after receiving numerous complaints about the way officers handled other cases.

He said that so many people complained at Monday night's city commission meeting about Sanford officers, the city asked the Department of Justice to step in.

"I am now in the process of talking with the Department of Justice and instituting a mechanism whereby citizens that have concerns or complaints about the Sanford Police Department can have their concerns heard and investigated by an independent agency," Bonaparte said.

Wonder who was all at that meeting on Monday.

Methinks it's over kids. They're going to try for criminal charges. I thought they'd be content with a "civil rights" witch hunt at Justice, but clearly Eric Holder has other plans. I suppose it takes everyone's mind off the fact that he's is arming Mexican drug cartels, or one in particular.

NJCardFan
03-29-2012, 03:45 AM
Not enough detail to tell about his injuries. He did go to the hospital the next day and it would be interesting to see the report.

Weird Al Sharpton is pushing for a criminal prosecution, and in fact, the Justice Department has now decided to investigate the entire Sanford Police force. (http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/state/trayvon-martin-case-department-of-justice-to-investigate-2266580.html)



Wonder who was all at that meeting on Monday.

Methinks it's over kids. They're going to try for criminal charges. I thought they'd be content with a "civil rights" witch hunt at Justice, but clearly Eric Holder has other plans. I suppose it takes everyone's mind off the fact that he's is arming Mexican drug cartels, or one in particular.

Let them charge Zimmerman. I'm fine with that. Then if he is found not guilty I don't want those animals rioting like they did when the LA cops were found not guilty in the Rodney King beating.

noonwitch
03-29-2012, 08:50 AM
Now there's (supposedly) a police video, right after the incident, where Zimmerman is not bloodied and bruised.

What a clusterfuck this thing is. Freaking 24 hour instant gratification news cycle is going to get us all killed.

I'm going back in my bunker. :)


I saw the video, and it was too grainy to see any detail. There wasn't any blood dripping down his face or the back of his head, but he had been treated at the scene by paramedics.

I wonder if the police took any photos of his injuries? They always do in child abuse, rape, assault and similar cases.

Starbuck
03-29-2012, 08:57 AM
Let them charge Zimmerman. I'm fine with that. Then if he is found not guilty I don't want those animals rioting like they did when the LA cops were found not guilty in the Rodney King beating.

Guilty. Innocent. Arrested. Cleared. There will be riots regardless.

FlaGator
03-29-2012, 09:14 AM
I suspect that this thing will get a whole lot worse before it gets better. With the usual race baitors stirring the pot nothing good can come of this.

AmPat
03-29-2012, 10:54 AM
Not enough detail to tell about his injuries. He did go to the hospital the next day and it would be interesting to see the report.

Weird Al Sharpton is pushing for a criminal prosecution, and in fact, the Justice Department has now decided to investigate the entire Sanford Police force. (http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/state/trayvon-martin-case-department-of-justice-to-investigate-2266580.html)
I believe the Sanford Police much arrest Weird Al for interferring with an investigation.

Arroyo_Doble
03-29-2012, 11:09 AM
I saw the video, and it was too grainy to see any detail. There wasn't any blood dripping down his face or the back of his head, but he had been treated at the scene by paramedics.

I wonder if the police took any photos of his injuries? They always do in child abuse, rape, assault and similar cases.

Leaving aside the issue of broken noses don't drip blood, they gush blood and that his injuries were not even severe enough to require a band-aid, how can a man pinned to the ground shoot the person on top of him in the chest at point blank range and not get any blood on himself?

txradioguy
03-29-2012, 11:13 AM
Leaving aside the issue of broken noses don't drip blood, they gush blood and that his injuries were not even severe enough to require a band-aid, how can a man pinned to the ground shoot the person on top of him in the chest at point blank range and not get any blood on himself?

Where has it been stated with any degree of proof that he didn't have blood on him fanboy?

And it's pretty retarded to assume because YOU don't think that whatever injuries Zommerman had didn't justify what he did.

You'd think completely different if it was you on the wrong end of the ass kicking.

Arroyo_Doble
03-29-2012, 11:17 AM
Where has it been stated with any degree of proof that he didn't have blood on him fanboy?

And it's pretty retarded to assume because YOU don't think that whatever injuries Zommerman had didn't justify what he did.

You'd think completely different if it was you on the wrong end of the ass kicking.

Thanks for your input.

Gentleman Pirate
03-29-2012, 11:21 AM
Guilty. Innocent. Arrested. Cleared. There will be riots regardless.

This is probably the most truthful thing I've read about this case. :cool:

txradioguy
03-29-2012, 11:22 AM
Thanks for your input.

:rolleyes:

txradioguy
03-29-2012, 11:29 AM
Its amazing that as soon as the "No blood" video made its appearance the same voices that said it didn't matter that Martin started the altercation...suddenly started trumpeting what they purport it shows concerning an absence of physical evidence of Zimmerman having been subject to an assault


There are a lot more details to be had from statements by EMS to the cops at the scene.

NJCardFan
03-29-2012, 11:45 AM
Leaving aside the issue of broken noses don't drip blood, they gush blood and that his injuries were not even severe enough to require a band-aid, how can a man pinned to the ground shoot the person on top of him in the chest at point blank range and not get any blood on himself?

Um, I broke my nose and not one drop of blood came out so you fail miserably here. As for the 2nd part, you watch too much CSI.

Gentleman Pirate
03-29-2012, 11:49 AM
Um, I broke my nose and not one drop of blood came out so you fail miserably here. As for the 2nd part, you watch too much CSI.

Has an autopsy report stated there was powder burns on Trayvon? If he was shot point blank, there would be and that would help to back up George's claims.

Arroyo_Doble
03-29-2012, 11:57 AM
Um, I broke my nose and not one drop of blood came out so you fail miserably here. As for the 2nd part, you watch too much CSI.

As to the first part, OK. I have only seen a few broken noses and they all bled profusely. I will admit that they don't necessarily bleed. But it will be hard to convince me that holes in the chest don't bleed.

And I've never seen CSI.

Adam Wood
03-29-2012, 02:09 PM
Has an autopsy report stated there was powder burns on Trayvon? If he was shot point blank, there would be and that would help to back up George's claims.I don't think it's really at question that Martin was shot at very close range. No one to the best of my knowledge disputes that Zimmerman fired with his muzzle just a few inches (if that) away from Martin. If there' aren't powder burns, then I suppose that will change the equation quite a bit, but really, out in the real world, most shootings are at point-blank range and relatively few people can actually hit a man-sized target with a pistol from fifty feet away.

I'm sure they're testing, but I'm also pretty confident that it's a foregone conclusion anyway.

Elspeth
03-29-2012, 02:33 PM
Um, I broke my nose and not one drop of blood came out so you fail miserably here. As for the 2nd part, you watch too much CSI.

Good to know. I think the DUmmies figure that if blood wasn't gushing out everywhere George wasn't hurt. I also would like to see his hospital records from the next day. Finally, if someone is bashing your head into the pavement, there might be a concussion as well.

Gentleman Pirate
03-29-2012, 03:59 PM
I don't think it's really at question that Martin was shot at very close range. No one to the best of my knowledge disputes that Zimmerman fired with his muzzle just a few inches (if that) away from Martin. If there' aren't powder burns, then I suppose that will change the equation quite a bit, but really, out in the real world, most shootings are at point-blank range and relatively few people can actually hit a man-sized target with a pistol from fifty feet away.

I'm sure they're testing, but I'm also pretty confident that it's a foregone conclusion anyway.

Thanks. I didn't hear either way on this.

NJCardFan
03-29-2012, 10:50 PM
As to the first part, OK. I have only seen a few broken noses and they all bled profusely. I will admit that they don't necessarily bleed. But it will be hard to convince me that holes in the chest don't bleed.

And I've never seen CSI.

Then I take it you've never seen anyone shot before.

noonwitch
03-30-2012, 08:59 AM
As to the first part, OK. I have only seen a few broken noses and they all bled profusely. I will admit that they don't necessarily bleed. But it will be hard to convince me that holes in the chest don't bleed.

And I've never seen CSI.


I can actually say the opposite: My nose has bled profusely on several occasions, but the bones have never been broken. The blood vessels got broken, from the injury I mentioned in the lounge topic about retro toys, in which I was hit across the face by another kid with a metal Tonka truck. I had nosebleeds throughout my childhood due to this injury, because of the blood vessels. Everytime I had a cold, anytime I slightly bumped my nose, when I was in high elevations, etc.

Every great once in a while, I will have a minor one still, but it's maybe once a year or so, during or after a bad cold.

AmPat
03-30-2012, 09:25 AM
I can actually say the opposite: My nose has bled profusely on several occasions, but the bones have never been broken. The blood vessels got broken, from the injury I mentioned in the lounge topic about retro toys, in which I was hit across the face by another kid with a metal Tonka truck. I had nosebleeds throughout my childhood due to this injury, because of the blood vessels. Everytime I had a cold, anytime I slightly bumped my nose, when I was in high elevations, etc.

Every great once in a while, I will have a minor one still, but it's maybe once a year or so, during or after a bad cold.
You're running out of blood! IIEEEEE!!!!!

Elspeth
04-01-2012, 12:24 AM
One note on Toure's CNN Meltdown:

http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-TV?id={F85B2E66-5AD0-4ECA-B114-FACBEAEF4917}&title=Toure-To-Piers-Morgan-You-Dont-Understand-Black-Humor-America-Or-Seriousness-Of-Zimmerman-Case


Toure insists that when Zimmerman said, "They always get away" that he was referring to all black males, and therefore shows "racist bias". Toure implies this by saying, "The jails are filled with millions of black men!"

The idea that Zimmerman was talking about the specific thieves that were stealing things from his neighborhood over the past year never enters into Toure's mind.

Toure is like so many other "journalists" in this situation: he assumes what things mean and what motivations are without knowing. Piers was right to slap him down.

AmPat
04-02-2012, 12:00 PM
What will be the official and public position of those who rushed to judgement ("News" outlets, individuals, Professional Race Baiters, etc), by persecuting Zimmerman and affording Sainthood on Travon, when they find that Travon was a common gangter thug?

I'm not suggesting he was, I'm merely pondering the possibility. Either this was a tragic accident resulting from a perfect storm, or Travon wasn't the little Angel his family advertises. I also wonder why the media hasn't promoted the fact that Zimmerman volunteer tutored some of the very people he is supposed to hate with every fiber in his body.

Things that make me go; Hmmmmm!!!

Adam Wood
04-02-2012, 12:09 PM
What will be the official and public position of those who rushed to judgement ("News" outlets, individuals, Professional Race Baiters, etc), by persecuting Zimmerman and affording Sainthood on Travon, when they find that Travon was a common gangter thug?

I'm not suggesting he was, I'm merely pondering the possibility. Either this was a tragic accident resulting from a perfect storm, or Travon wasn't the little Angel his family advertises. I also wonder why the media hasn't promoted the fact that Zimmerman volunteer tutored some of the very people he is supposed to hate with every fiber in his body.

Things that make me go; Hmmmmm!!!Crickets.

Novaheart
04-02-2012, 12:29 PM
What will be the official and public position of those who rushed to judgement ("News" outlets, individuals, Professional Race Baiters, etc), by persecuting Zimmerman and affording Sainthood on Travon, when they find that Travon was a common gangter thug?

I'm not suggesting he was, I'm merely pondering the possibility. Either this was a tragic accident resulting from a perfect storm, or Travon wasn't the little Angel his family advertises. I also wonder why the media hasn't promoted the fact that Zimmerman volunteer tutored some of the very people he is supposed to hate with every fiber in his body.

Things that make me go; Hmmmmm!!!

Absolute denial. They will move on and if you try to nail them on it, they will call you a racist. The Al Sharpton and protest gang already have a continuous mechanism in their brain for this process: they feel justified by their emotions regardless of the facts. I know it's worn out, but the "niggardly" case is the case in point. Even after being told what the word means, and it's nonracial origin, the response was "I wasn't wrong in how I felt, because in my mind it was a racist word and he meant it in a racist way. You can't tell me that man is not a racist, because you can't get inside his head."

AmPat
04-02-2012, 10:58 PM
Absolute denial. They will move on and if you try to nail them on it, they will call you a racist. The Al Sharpton and protest gang already have a continuous mechanism in their brain for this process: they feel justified by their emotions regardless of the facts. I know it's worn out, but the "niggardly" case is the case in point. Even after being told what the word means, and it's nonracial origin, the response was "I wasn't wrong in how I felt, because in my mind it was a racist word and he meant it in a racist way. You can't tell me that man is not a racist, because you can't get inside his head."

I have been known to act niggardly from time to time, and you could illuminate a dance hall with my butt.

Teetop
04-03-2012, 01:21 PM
George Zimmerman, racist and bigot......Fail! (http://dailycaller.com/2012/04/02/zimmerman-family-member-calls-naacp-racists-says-there-will-be-blood-on-your-hands-if-george-is-hurt/)


“Do you know the individual that stepped up when no one else in the black community would?” the family member wrote. “Do you know who spent tireless hours putting flyers on the cars of persons parked in the churches of the black community? Do you know who waited for the church‐goers to get out of church so that he could hand them fliers in an attempt to organize the black community against this horrible miscarriage of justice? Do you know who helped organize the City Hall meeting on January 8th, 2011 at Sanford City Hall??”

“That person was GEORGE ZIMMERMAN. Ironic isn’t it?”

Zeus
04-03-2012, 01:26 PM
That is why you never shoot to wound; you shoot to kill.

No sir, You shoot to stay alive , the law doesn't account for accuracy.

Elspeth
04-03-2012, 05:10 PM
George Zimmerman, racist and bigot......Fail! (http://dailycaller.com/2012/04/02/zimmerman-family-member-calls-naacp-racists-says-there-will-be-blood-on-your-hands-if-george-is-hurt/)

THIS has to posted. THANK YOU! Your link is super.

Zimmerman family member calls NAACP ‘racists,’ says ‘there will be blood on your hands’ if George is hurt

In a letter obtained exclusively by The Daily Caller on Monday, a family member of George Zimmerman ripped Seminole County, Fla. NAACP president Turner Clayton for a rush to judgment in the Trayvon Martin case.

“It’s time for you to end the race issue in this matter and call for cooler heads to prevail,” the letter reads. “If something happens to George as a result of the race furor stirred up by this mischaracterization of George there will be blood on your hands as well as the rest of the racists that have rushed to judgment. You need to call off the dogs. Period. Publicly and swiftly.”

George, the letter adds, “has been called a racist and a bigot and there have been very few that have stood up for him.” The letter was addressed to Clayton at the NAACP’s national headquarters in Baltimore.

The family member, whose identity TheDC has confirmed but is withholding out of concern for the Zimmerman family’s safety, said George Zimmerman “has been found guilty” in the court of public opinion “until proven innocent,” adding that the details of what happened on Feb. 26 — the night Zimmerman shot Martin in what he claims was self-defense — “will not be disclosed until the police report is made public.”

“Regardless of this fact, George Zimmerman has been hiding for his life because of the death threats made against him by the black community … all of our family is in hiding and frankly scared by the threats,” the family member wrote in the letter dated March 26, but shared with TheDC on Monday.

“There has been an unprecedented rush to judge George regardless of the facts. The black community as a whole has turned their backs and blindly followed the furor stirred up by self-proclaimed leaders of your community. These leaders have rallies and chant horrible things of a person they know nothing about.”

In a letter obtained exclusively by The Daily Caller on Monday, a family member of George Zimmerman ripped Seminole County, Fla. NAACP president Turner Clayton for a rush to judgment in the Trayvon Martin case.

“It’s time for you to end the race issue in this matter and call for cooler heads to prevail,” the letter reads. “If something happens to George as a result of the race furor stirred up by this mischaracterization of George there will be blood on your hands as well as the rest of the racists that have rushed to judgment. You need to call off the dogs. Period. Publicly and swiftly.”

George, the letter adds, “has been called a racist and a bigot and there have been very few that have stood up for him.” The letter was addressed to Clayton at the NAACP’s national headquarters in Baltimore.

The family member, whose identity TheDC has confirmed but is withholding out of concern for the Zimmerman family’s safety, said George Zimmerman “has been found guilty” in the court of public opinion “until proven innocent,” adding that the details of what happened on Feb. 26 — the night Zimmerman shot Martin in what he claims was self-defense — “will not be disclosed until the police report is made public.”

“Regardless of this fact, George Zimmerman has been hiding for his life because of the death threats made against him by the black community … all of our family is in hiding and frankly scared by the threats,” the family member wrote in the letter dated March 26, but shared with TheDC on Monday.

“There has been an unprecedented rush to judge George regardless of the facts. The black community as a whole has turned their backs and blindly followed the furor stirred up by self-proclaimed leaders of your community. These leaders have rallies and chant horrible things of a person they know nothing about.”

The letter also described how Zimmerman was one of “very few” in Sanford, Fla., who spoke out publicly to condemn the “beating of the black homeless man Sherman Ware on December 4, 2010 by the son of a Sanford police officer.”

“Do you know the individual that stepped up when no one else in the black community would?” the family member wrote. “Do you know who spent tireless hours putting flyers on the cars of persons parked in the churches of the black community? Do you know who waited for the church‐goers to get out of church so that he could hand them fliers in an attempt to organize the black community against this horrible miscarriage of justice? Do you know who helped organize the City Hall meeting on January 8th, 2011 at Sanford City Hall??”

“That person was GEORGE ZIMMERMAN. Ironic isn’t it?”

“The main point for this letter is to explain to you that the black community has labeled George a racist without any investigation at all,” the letter continued. “Regardless of the fact that George personally spoke to many of your constituents, not one has stepped forward and said, ‘Hey I know that face. That is the Hispanic guy that was standing up for Sherman Ware. That was the only non‐black face in the meetings for justice in this case.’”

“You know as well as I do that there are many NAACP followers that recognize George from the Ware case as well as many other good things that he’s done for the black community.”

Clayton is one NAACP regional leader who has broken ranks with the Rev. Jesse Jackson and MSNBC host the Rev. Al Sharpton, refusing to join their calls for an escalation in protest tactics.

“We are not calling for any sanctions, against any business or anyone else,” Clayton said. “And, of course, what Rev. Sharpton does, that’s strictly the [National] Action Network. We can’t condone that part of the conversation, if that’s what he said.”

An NAACP spokesperson at the group’s Baltimore headquarters did not immediately respond to a request for comment.

Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2012/04/02/zimmerman-family-member-calls-naacp-racists-says-there-will-be-blood-on-your-hands-if-george-is-hurt/#ixzz1r0vasvnN

Elspeth
04-03-2012, 05:38 PM
Oh, and this, from near Sanford.

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-04-02/news/os-two-arrested-seminole-beating-20120402_1_victim-arrest-affidavits-crimeline


Two arrested in brutal hammer beating in Seminole

A tip to Crimeline has led to the arrests of two men in a brutal beating that occurred a week ago in the Midway community east of Sanford.

Julius Ricardo Bender, 18, and Yahaziel Isaac Israel, 19, face charges of attempted first-degree murder, burglary with assault or battery and armed burglary.

http://www.trbimg.com/img-1333403344/turbine/beating.jpg-20120402

The victim, a 50-year-old Winter Springs man whose name has not been released, is on life-support at Orlando Regional Medical Center.

Deputies were called to the area of Lincoln Street and Beardall Avenue about 6:30 p.m. March 26 to investigate a report of a man being beaten, Seminole County Sheriff's spokeswoman Heather Smith said.

They found the victim in the woods on the north side of Lincoln Street.

According to arrest affidavits:

A witness told deputies he heard someone screaming for help and saw two men pull the victim from his vehicle. He said he watched as one man held the victim and the other beat him in the head with a hammer.

After they dragged the victim into the woods, the men drove away in his sport utility vehicle, which was later found abandoned about a half-mile away on Garbo Jack Lane.

Investigators got a break in the case Thursday, when a tip to Crimeline named Bender and gave the street name of the second suspect.

On Friday, investigators learned Israel's fingerprints had been found both inside and outside of the victim's vehicle.

The witness was shown photo lineups and picked out Bender and Israel as the men he saw beating the victim. He said Bender was the man wielding the hammer.

Both men were arrested late Friday.

NJCardFan
04-03-2012, 05:41 PM
I have been known to act niggardly from time to time, and you could illuminate a dance hall with my butt.
In other words, you're cheap. :livid:

Elspeth
04-03-2012, 05:43 PM
Stand Your Ground Law to be reviewed:

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/04/03/2729269/task-force-launched-to-review.html



Task force launched to review Stand Your Ground law after Trayvon Martin shooting
BY TOLUSE OLORUNNIPA The Miami Herald

State Sen. Chris Smith, D-Fort Lauderdale, is launching a task force to look into Florida’s Stand Your Ground law, complaining that Gov. Rick Scott has not acted fast enough in the wake of Trayvon Martin’s death.

State Sen. Chris Smith, frustrated by what he calls “stalling” by Gov. Rick Scott following the shooting death of unarmed teen Trayvon Martin, is launching a task force to review the controversial law at the center of the case.

“Instead of waiting on the governor to act, I’ve decided to lead in the state of Florida,” the Fort Lauderdale Democrat said Tuesday. “I’ve assembled a task force to look at the controversial Stand Your Ground law.”

The governor created a task force to review Stand Your Ground two weeks ago, but has said the group will not convene until after the investigation into the Trayvon Martin shooting is completed.

Smith wanted faster action. His South Florida-based task force, made up of legal professionals and law enforcement officers, will hold its first meeting on Thursday at 4 p.m. at the Broward County Main Library.

Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/04/03/2729269/task-force-launched-to-review.html#storylink=cpy

NJCardFan
04-03-2012, 05:50 PM
Oh, and this, from near Sanford.

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-04-02/news/os-two-arrested-seminole-beating-20120402_1_victim-arrest-affidavits-crimeline

I wonder if any of them were wearing the punk ass cracker shirt. Was the victim white? If so, I don't suppose Sharpton or Jackson would care to comment.

Elspeth
04-03-2012, 05:57 PM
I wonder if any of them were wearing the punk ass cracker shirt. Was the victim white? If so, I don't suppose Sharpton or Jackson would care to comment.

No race is given on the victim.

What is interesting is that these guys were just a year or two older than Trayvon. People who say Zimmerman had no reason to fear "that little boy" are mistaken.

Weird Al and Jesse have not yet commented, but there's a call for them to say something in the comments section of the article, as you can probably imagine. :smile-new:

Elspeth
04-04-2012, 05:53 PM
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/04/04/Congressional-Black-Caucus-Trayvon-Resolution

The Congressional Black Caucus cries "racism!" before all the real facts are in. Did any of them LOOK at the timeline of events?


Dem Reps Sponsor Resolution Blaming 'Racial Bias' For Trayvon Shooting


There is little to no evidence that George Zimmerman shot Trayvon Martin because Martin was black. But that hasn’t stopped members of the Congressional Black Caucus from sponsoring a resolution linking Martin to gun control and lamenting supposed racial profiling of the teenager:

You can read the resolution in its entirety at the link, but one phrase sticks out:

"Whereas Zimmerman's unfounded assumptions and racial bias led to the use of deadly force …."

This is the assumption of the Congressional Black Caucus, not a fact. Yet they are basing their resolution on this.

Also, "Stand Your Ground" is about to be attacked:



Resolved, That the House of Representatives--

(1) admonishes any State, local agency, or official acting to obstruct an open investigation or failing to fully execute their official duties in the investigation of the events surrounding the death of Trayvon Martin ….

(5) urges the repeal of the Stand Your Ground law in every applicable State, including Florida.

Lager
04-04-2012, 06:03 PM
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/04/04/Congressional-Black-Caucus-Trayvon-Resolution

The Congressional Black Caucus cries "racism!" before all the real facts are in. Did any of them LOOK at the timeline of events?


You can read the resolution in its entirety at the link, but one phrase sticks out:

"Whereas Zimmerman's unfounded assumptions and racial bias led to the use of deadly force …."

This is the assumption of the Congressional Black Caucus, not a fact. Yet they are basing their resolution on this.

Also, "Stand Your Ground" is about to be attacked:

What a circus. Are these folks really congressmen? Or were they just given badges and a parking space and told to stay out of trouble? What a shining example of our democracy.

Elspeth
04-04-2012, 07:15 PM
What a circus. Are these folks really congressmen? Or were they just given badges and a parking space and told to stay out of trouble? What a shining example of our democracy.

The statement isn't legally binding in anyway. As the Breitbart website points out, it's just grandstanding. But it sounds like something is being done, and the statement can become a bludgeon to force law enforcement or politicians to do something.

Stay tuned.

Retread
04-04-2012, 09:45 PM
going through all the complete tapes as released makes it clear that "stand your ground" does not apply. Once Mr. Zimmerman left his vehicle and started following the circumstances changed.

The reversal of who was following who did put him at a disadvantage and actually led to the confrontation.

Elspeth
04-04-2012, 11:32 PM
going through all the complete tapes as released makes it clear that "stand your ground" does not apply. Once Mr. Zimmerman left his vehicle and started following the circumstances changed.

The reversal of who was following who did put him at a disadvantage and actually led to the confrontation.

From everything I have read, you're incorrect here. Situations are fluid and the dynamic changes.

The complete tape of Zimmerman's call indicates a 25 second pursuit after which Trayvon disappears and does not reappear for the rest of the call. At the end of the call, Zimmerman is alone in the dark and Trayvon is no where to be seen. (He is ostensibly hidden). At this point, you cannot argue that Zimmerman is not covered by Stand Your Ground. He is alone and not in pursuit of anyone. In fact, he has indicated to police that he is going to leave the scene. Trayvon is not visible to him at all.

Now to truly know whether or not Zimmerman is covered by the law later on, you have to know what happened between the end of Zimmerman's phone call to the police and the beginning of the altercation--a period of about a minute. THAT is where the test of Stand Your Ground would be.

Zimmerman claims that Trayvon emerged from his hiding place and attacked him. That would have Zimmerman covered by Stand Your Ground. The previous 25 second pursuit and getting out of the car no longer applies, since Trayvon has disappeared and Zimmerman had the intent to leave.

However, if in that minute after the call, Zimmerman starts to actively pursue Trayvon again--something which we don't know and seems highly unlikely--then the Stand Your Ground law would not apply.

Odysseus
04-05-2012, 11:55 AM
Zimmerman claims that Trayvon emerged from his hiding place and attacked him. That would have Zimmerman covered by Stand Your Ground. The previous 25 second pursuit and getting out of the car no longer applies, since Trayvon has disappeared and Zimmerman had the intent to leave.

According to the testimony of the witness to the incident, Trayvon was on top of Zimmerman and was beating his head against the ground. The forensic evidence, which shows cuts, abrasions and bruises on the back of Zimmerman's head, reinforces his story. If this turns out to be the case, then the Stand Your Ground law doesn't apply, because even without it, you're allowed to protect yourself when someone is banging your skull on the pavement.

Teetop
04-05-2012, 01:41 PM
More narratives falling apart.... (http://legalinsurrection.com/2012/04/zimmerman-racial-slur-narrative-falling-apart/)


As with so much else in this case, the original media report of George Zimmerman using the pejorative “coons,” which has been accepted as true and then repeated endlessly by the left blogosphere and mainstream media, now is in doubt.

An enhanced analysis now appears to indicate Zimmerman said “cold.”

Elspeth
04-05-2012, 04:21 PM
According to the testimony of the witness to the incident, Trayvon was on top of Zimmerman and was beating his head against the ground. The forensic evidence, which shows cuts, abrasions and bruises on the back of Zimmerman's head, reinforces his story. If this turns out to be the case, then the Stand Your Ground law doesn't apply, because even without it, you're allowed to protect yourself when someone is banging your skull on the pavement.

Good point!

Elspeth
04-05-2012, 04:22 PM
An enhanced analysis now appears to indicate Zimmerman said “cold.”

THE BIGGEST DEBUNK OF THE CASE.

Bar none.

Elspeth
04-05-2012, 09:50 PM
Poor Sanford.....


http://www.clickorlando.com/news/City-of-Sanford-prepares-for-response-to-George-Zimmerman-decision/-/1637132/10276020/-/xeilns/-/index.html

SANFORD, Fla. -

The city of Sanford is preparing for the outcome of the special prosecutor's decision about George Zimmerman, the neighborhood watchman who shot and killed 17-year-old Trayvon Martin but has not been charged.

Sanford Mayor Jeff Triplett said on Thursday that the city's emergency management team has met regularly with the U.S Department of Justice to construct a plan. Officials said extra police officers and fire department officials are on standby. Neighboring agencies have also been asked to assist, if needed.

Retread
04-05-2012, 11:02 PM
From everything I have read, you're incorrect here. Situations are fluid and the dynamic changes.

The complete tape of Zimmerman's call indicates a 25 second pursuit after which Trayvon disappears and does not reappear for the rest of the call. ................

However, if in that minute after the call, Zimmerman starts to actively pursue Trayvon again--something which we don't know and seems highly unlikely--then the Stand Your Ground law would not apply.

With no disrespect intended, I believe the first pursuit had already invalidated 'stand your ground'.

Simultaneously, I believe Mr Zimmerman was attacked and defended himself.

I further believe that without the first pursuit the attack would not have occurred.

I am making these observations from the standpoint of a life associated with law enforcement running the gamut from city marshal to Interpol.

RedGrouse
04-05-2012, 11:56 PM
Poor Sanford.....

Starting to remind me of 1991 and 1992 all over again.

http://www.conservativeunderground.com/forum505/showthread.php?48337-Black-Korean-Tensions-Flare-in-Dallas&highlight=dallas

Elspeth
04-06-2012, 12:43 AM
Zimmerman has "science on his side:"


Though it was widely reported that George Zimmerman grumbled a racial slur before shooting 17-year-old Trayvon Martin, his lawyers have insisted their client instead said "F---ing punks".

Now they seem to have science on their side. Renowned forensic audio expert Tom Owen (http://www.owlinvestigations.com/publications.html)analyzed the 911 recording—which was fraught with cell phone interference—and told CNN that Zimmerman indeed whispered "punks" and not the racial slur that has caused so much controversy.

That should settle it. Owen is the real deal. Check out his website:

http://www.owlinvestigations.com/publications.html

But is that enough for CNN?

Nooooo


CNN, however, is not convinced, stating that "Owen provided CNN with a copy of the newly processed audio" and that CNN "enhanced the sound of the 911 call, and several members of CNN's editorial staff repeatedly reviewed the tape but could reach no consensus on whether Zimmerman used a slur."


http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/upshot/did-zimmerman-punks-racial-slur-911-recording-005746464.html


The facts are against them, whether it's the audio tapes, the timeline, the eyewitnesses, or the continuing stream of information coming out about Trayvon. But none of it seems to matter. The media wants this to be racism and they will make it be racism. Who controls the media? They're all on the same page here.

txradioguy
04-06-2012, 05:52 AM
But is that enough for CNN?

CNN is too invested in the "hate crime" meme to accept anything that doesn't support that theory.

CNN International is even more onside in it's coverage than it's parent network.

Elspeth
04-06-2012, 02:55 PM
With no disrespect intended, I believe the first pursuit had already invalidated 'stand your ground'.

Simultaneously, I believe Mr Zimmerman was attacked and defended himself.

I further believe that without the first pursuit the attack would not have occurred.

I am making these observations from the standpoint of a life associated with law enforcement running the gamut from city marshal to Interpol.


Based on other cases I have read about, I disagree with you but we'll see what happens.

Your opinion seems to be based on the idea that Zimmerman's 25 second foot pursuit was the first approach, the aggressive action that began the chain. But, if you notice in the tape transcript, Trayvon approached first: he spent over a solid minute approaching Zimmerman's vehicle, and Zimmerman is noticeably scared. If you want to decide who started the encounter, you can start at 0.58 seconds on the tape, when Zimmerman is in his car talking to the police and Trayvon begins his approach to Zimmerman's vehicle. Yes, Trayvon started running just after the 2 minute mark, but the aggressiveness began with him.

However, I agree with Odysseus that Stand Your Ground is not even necessary when someone is on top of you and bashing your head in.

Elspeth
04-06-2012, 02:56 PM
CNN is too invested in the "hate crime" meme to accept anything that doesn't support that theory.

CNN International is even more onside in it's coverage than it's parent network.

Really? I wonder why they want to create the impression of racism across the world.

Retread
04-06-2012, 09:31 PM
Based on other cases I have read about, I disagree with you but we'll see what happens.

Your opinion seems to be based on the idea that Zimmerman's 25 second foot pursuit was the first approach, the aggressive action that began the chain. But, if you notice in the tape transcript, Trayvon approached first: he spent over a solid minute approaching Zimmerman's vehicle, and Zimmerman is noticeably scared. If you want to decide who started the encounter, you can start at 0.58 seconds on the tape, when Zimmerman is in his car talking to the police and Trayvon begins his approach to Zimmerman's vehicle. Yes, Trayvon started running just after the 2 minute mark, but the aggressiveness began with him.

However, I agree with Odysseus that Stand Your Ground is not even necessary when someone is on top of you and bashing your head in.

We’ll just have to agree or disagree until the judgments are in. I also agree with Ody re: ‘stand your ground’.

If you were sitting in your car by the curb and I walked down the block I would be approaching you until I passed and then I would be going away. But any aggression you perceive would be just that – perception, not at all a confirmed reality.

Then, as a final part of my view, IMHO we will never see a reality based outcome. As the investigations continue those that do not find him guilty of murder will be written off as propaganda and racist. It will continue until he is found guilty or found dead in a back alley.

Elspeth
04-07-2012, 11:16 PM
If you were sitting in your car by the curb and I walked down the block I would be approaching you until I passed and then I would be going away. But any aggression you perceive would be just that – perception, not at all a confirmed reality.

But note that the Stand Your Ground law is very much based on perception (if you have a reasonable fear your life is in danger.) Trayvon's approach toward the vehicle could be seen as adding to Zimmerman's perception of danger. Alone it may not be much, but cumulatively it might add up to something.


Then, as a final part of my view, IMHO we will never see a reality based outcome. As the investigations continue those that do not find him guilty of murder will be written off as propaganda and racist. It will continue until he is found guilty or found dead in a back alley.

This is what I have been afraid of since the beginning. Once the media/propaganda tsunami takes hold, there is no going back to rationality.

Elspeth
04-07-2012, 11:20 PM
Black Panthers involved?

Add the Neo-Nazis.



Armed Neo-Nazis Now Patrolling Sanford, Say They Are "Prepared" For Post-Trayvon Martin Violence (http://blogs.miaminewtimes.com/riptide/2012/04/heavily_armed_neo-nazis_patrol.php)


Neo-Nazis are currently conducting heavily armed patrols in and around Sanford, Florida and are "prepared" for violence in the case of a race riot. The patrols are to protect "white citizens in the area who are concerned for their safety" in the wake of the Trayvon Martin shooting last month, says Commander Jeff Schoep of the National Socialist Movement. "We are not advocating any type of violence or attacks on anybody, but we are prepared for it," he says. "We are not the type of white people who are going to be walked all over."...

...Schoep, whose neo-Nazi group is based in Detroit, tells Riptide the patrols are a response to white residents' fears of a race riot.

A group called the New Black Panther Party recently offered $10,000 for a citizens' arrest of George Zimmerman, Martin's shooter. Schoep said the bounty is a sign that "the possibility of further racial violence... is brimming over like a powder keg ready to explode into the streets."

The patrols are comprised of between 10 and 20 locals and "volunteers" from across the state, including some from Miami, he added. He couldn't go into specifics on what kind of firepower, exactly, the patrols had with them....

NJCardFan
04-08-2012, 02:55 AM
Black Panthers involved?

Add the Neo-Nazis.

Before anyone tries to paint these guys as some right wing group, note the name:

says Commander Jeff Schoep of the National Socialist Movement

Teetop
04-09-2012, 05:14 PM
Black Panthers involved?

Add the Neo-Nazis.


That story is BS.... (http://legalinsurrection.com/2012/04/sanford-fl-police-deny-any-indication-of-neo-nazis-patrolling/)

Elspeth
04-09-2012, 07:16 PM
That story is BS.... (http://legalinsurrection.com/2012/04/sanford-fl-police-deny-any-indication-of-neo-nazis-patrolling/)

Good to know.

There is so much BS around this story it's hard to tell.

JB
04-09-2012, 07:28 PM
I love how some editorial staff pukes at CNN are saying "I'm not sure" when a freaking FORENSIC AUDIO EXPERT said he said "punks".

Elspeth
04-09-2012, 07:33 PM
Just for the record on the thread:


Zimmerman family challenges Holder on New Black Panthers, says no arrests ‘based solely on your race’ (http://dailycaller.com/2012/04/09/zimmerman-family-challenges-holder-on-new-black-panthers-says-no-arrests-based-solely-on-your-race/)

In a letter to Attorney General Eric Holder on Monday, obtained exclusively by The Daily Caller, a family member of George Zimmerman asked the nation’s top law enforcement officer why he has chosen to not arrest members of the New Black Panther Party for their rhetoric — some of which may fit the federal government’s definition of a hate crime — throughout the Trayvon Martin case.

The family member believes the reason Holder hasn’t made those arrests is because he, like the members of the New Black Panther Party, is black.

“I am writing you to ask you why, when the law of the land is crystal clear, is your office not arresting the New Black Panthers for hate crimes?” the family member wrote to Holder.

“The Zimmerman family is in hiding because of the threats that have been made against us, yet the DOJ has maintained an eerie silence on this matter. These threats are very public. If you haven’t been paying attention just do a Google search and you will find plenty. Since when can a group of people in the United States put a bounty on someone’s head, circulate Wanted posters publicly, and still be walking the streets?”

The New Black Panthers have issued ultimatums to the Sanford authorities, saying they want Zimmerman arrested “dead or alive.” They have placed a bounty on Zimmerman’s head, and have called for the building of an army of vigilantes to track him down and effect a citizen’s arrest.

Most recently, the New Black Panther Party has called for violence.

In a conference call recorded over the weekend, the militant group said it planned to “suit up and boot up” and prepare for the next stages of the “race war.”

So far, however, no members of the New Black Panther Party have faced legal consequences.

After citing the U.S. Department of Justice’s published definition of a “hate crime,” the Zimmerman family member wrote that there is “no other explanation” for Holder’s failure to authorize arrests of New Black Panther Party members, other than the fact that Holder himself is black.

“I would surmise that, based on your own definition of a hate crime, you have chosen not to arrest these individuals based solely on your race,” the family member wrote to Holder, insisting too that the was “NO racial component” to the “tragedy” that occurred on the late February night when Zimmerman shot Trayvon Martin.

The Daily Caller has confirmed the identity of the Zimmerman family member but is withholding that person’s identity out of concern for the family’s safety.

The family member also criticized members of Congress who have forcefully criticized police for failing to arrest Georgfe Zimmerman, as well as “the Congressional Black Caucus, the NAACP, Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, Spike Lee, [and] President Barack Obama,” adding that “many” who have commented on the case without having a complete understanding of the facts “no doubt understand the laws of our great nation.”

Noting President Obama’s White House event last week celebrating the 1960 novel “To Kill a Mockingbird,” Zimmerman’s family member drew a novel comparison to the American literary classic.

“Strangely enough this case has a lot of parallels to those of Harper Lee’s ‘To Kill a Mockingbird,’” the letter to Attorney General Holder read. “George Zimmerman has been treated much like Tom Robinson was, chastised for not being the right (or wrong) color and found guilty based on race factors.

“You have the opportunity to act as Atticus [Finch] and do the right thing. Your boss would refer to this as a ‘teachable moment.’”

DOJ spokeswoman Tracy Schmaler has not responded to The Daily Caller’s request for comment on why Holder hasn’t authorized the arrest of any New Black Panther Party members, nor has she answered whether that decision is related to Holder’s race.

Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2012/04/09/zimmerman-family-challenges-holder-on-new-black-panthers-says-no-arrests-based-solely-on-your-race/#ixzz1raapDexk


The original letter at this link: http://www.scribd.com/doc/88637535/Zimmerman-Family-Letter-to-Eric-Holder-Email-Redacted

Elspeth
04-09-2012, 09:25 PM
Apparently, George Zimmerman has a website now:


http://therealgeorgezimmerman.com/

It's impossible to get right now. Should be interesting reading.

Elspeth
04-10-2012, 10:44 AM
How many of these have there been now?

(Paging Eric Holder....)



Man tells police group yelled ‘Trayvon,' then beat him (http://www.gainesville.com/article/20120409/ARTICLES/120409617/1182?Title=Man-tells-police-group-yelled-8216-Trayvon-then-beat-him)

Police are investigating the “racially motivated” beating of a 27-year-old man who was walking home from midtown bars early Saturday when he said he was jumped by five to eight men who shouted “Trayvon” before the attack...

Investigators believe that case was the catalyst for the beating Saturday in Gainesville.

“We do believe that the crime was racially motivated,” Gainesville Police Department spokeswoman Cpl. Angelina Valuri said.

The assailants were black, while the victim is white, Valuri said.

She said the victim had been drinking and could not provide a description of the attackers or their vehicle, only that it was a mid-size vehicle.

But Valuri said his injuries were consistent with being jumped by a group.

During what he told police was a five-minute beating, he sustained injuries to the left eye, abrasions to his palms and a cut on his right kneecap, and Valuri said he would likely have “permanent disfigurement to the left side of his face.”

He was taken to Shands at the University of Florida for treatment.

The attack occurred at about 2:45 a.m. in the 3200 block of Southwest 23rd Terrace.

The victim told police that a vehicle was coming east on Southwest 32nd Place when it stopped at 23rd Terrace.

A group of men got out and told him he was walking too slowly, the victim told police.

They then yelled “Trayvon,” according to a GPD report, and proceeded to beat him.

Elspeth
04-10-2012, 10:49 AM
Nice, eh?




Sanford police car shot near Trayvon Martin scene (http://www.clickorlando.com/news/Sanford-police-car-shot-near-Trayvon-Martin-scene/-/1637132/10396904/-/j1ihog/-/index.html)

SANFORD, Fla. -

A Sanford police car parked near the Trayvon Martin shooting scene was found Tuesday morning with bullet holes in it, according to authorities.

The cruiser was parked across the street from the Retreat at Twin Lakes apartment complex, near the front of Bentley Elementary School.

Police said no one was inside the cruiser, but gunfire knocked out at least one window on the car. Witnesses said they heard six shots; at least two bullets struck the patrol car.

Sanford police said the cruiser had been parked in front of Bentley Elementary for the past couple of weeks at the request of school officials who had concerns about safety issues.

Police removed the car from the scene, and an investigation is ongoing.

NJCardFan
04-10-2012, 04:31 PM
How many of these have there been now?

(Paging Eric Holder....)

Don't hold your breath.

Elspeth
04-10-2012, 05:28 PM
George Zimmerman's attorneys have pulled out of the case.

They are pulling out of the case because they are no longer in contact with Zimmerman and because Zimmerman is talking to the prosecutor. They can no longer defend him.

Elspeth
04-10-2012, 05:30 PM
More on attorneys pulling out:

http://dailycaller.com/2012/04/10/zimmermans-attorneys-weve-lost-contact-with-zimmerman/



Zimmerman’s attorneys: ‘We’ve lost contact with Zimmerman’

In a press conference Tuesday afternoon, George Zimmerman’s attorneys — Hal Uhrig and Craig Sonner — said they have lost contact with their client since Sunday afternoon. Sonner said that last contact was via text message.

Uhrig said Zimmerman, the neighborhood watch volunteer who shot and killed Trayvon Martin, contacted state attorney Angela Corey and Fox News host Sean Hannity on his own without their guidance. According to Uhrig, Zimmerman said “I don’t have any attorneys, they’re just my legal advisers.” The conversation with Hannity happened today, Uhrig said, and was off the record.

Uhrig said he was puzzled by how Zimmerman thinks there’s a difference between an “attorney” and a “legal adviser.”

“I’m not sure what the distinction is, but in his mind there’s a distinction,” Uhrig said.

Sonner said he has not met with Zimmerman “face to face,” and that he does not plan to reveal Zimmerman’s location. Sonner also said he “stands by” everything he’s said about the case to this point, including how he thinks Zimmerman was acting in “self-defense” and that this case was not a “racial issue.”

“”It’s no so much that we are resigning,” Sonner said. “It’s that we cannot continue to represent him until he comes forward.”

“He has gone on his own,” he added. “I don’t know what he’s doing or who he’s talking to. I cannot represent client who doesn’t stay in contact with me.”

“I know his phone works, but he’s not returning my text messages or my calls,” Sonner said.

Sonner said that Zimmerman is still in the United States and that he doesn’t expect him to “flee the country.”

Uhrig added that Zimmerman is still living in fear. “George can’t go out and buy a Diet Coke,” he said. “There’s a bounty on his head.”

Uhrig and Sonner said that Zimmerman set up a new website on his own — therealGeorgeZimmerman.com — even though were planning to launch a website for him on their own. They had planned to direct national media to their site and said they were shocked by the website Zimmerman launched. “Him setting up his own web site is fine,” Sonner said. “I wish he would have told me.”

Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2012/04/10/zimmermans-attorneys-weve-lost-contact-with-zimmerman/#ixzz1rfwVR45z

Adam Wood
04-11-2012, 03:17 PM
Another interesting bit that it seems the majors are ignoring in droves (http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/04/06/tagblogsfindlawcom2012-blotter-idUS214913966420120406).

Elspeth
04-11-2012, 03:28 PM
I'm putting it down here. The racists have gotten their trial.


George Zimmerman's defense team is growing, suggesting that he's planning for a grand jury indictment and a subsequent criminal trial. Interestingly, his new attorney has begun releasing some previously unknown facts.

Did you know that, on the night of Trayvon Martin's death, Sanford police gave George Zimmerman a voice stress test?

They did, and the results probably contributed to his release.

A voice stress test is like a polygraph, but instead of measuring heart rate and blood pressure, it looks for changes in an individual's voice patterns that are thought to suggest psychological stress. With the help of software, investigators record a suspect answering baseline questions and then compare them to answers about the case.

This technology is not unique to Sanford. The National Institute for Truth Verification, a manufacturer of the technology, claims that over 1,800 local, state and federal law enforcement agencies use their product. They also claim to have trained U.S. Military personnel.

Expert opinion is mixed, but a study commissioned by the Justice Department suggests that a voice stress test is "no better than flipping a coin." For this reason, like its cousin the polygraph, George Zimmerman's voice stress test probably wouldn't be admissible at trial. However, it can still be used in the investigatory phase.

George Zimmerman's voice stress test came out clean, according to attorney Hal Uhrig. If the Sanford Police Department is willing to spend more than $10,000 on the product, then it probably trusts its results. And those results probably corroborated what officers initially saw at the scene.

Elspeth
04-11-2012, 03:46 PM
At least CNN is getting the pictures more accurate:

http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2012/04/11/prosecutor-to-announce-decision-on-zimmerman/?hpt=hp_t1

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/dam/assets/120405065641-large-zimmerman-martin-split-story-top.jpg


03:07 PM ET

Source: Zimmerman to be charged in Trayvon Martin case

The office of a special prosecutor who is investigating the Trayvon Martin shooting case plans to announce at 6 p.m. ET Wednesday new information in the case.

Earlier, a senior law enforcement source familiar with the Martin death investigation told CNN said that Zimmerman would be charged.

Police say Zimmerman fatally shot Martin, a 17-year-old African-American, on February 26 in Sanford, Florida, after Martin began walking home from a convenience store. Zimmerman, who is Hispanic and was a neighborhood watch volunteer, had called 911 to complain about a suspicious person in the neighborhood. He was released without charges after claiming self-defense, but the case was referred to a special prosecutor as thousands converged on Sanford to join in protests calling for Zimmerman's arrest.

Elspeth
04-11-2012, 08:06 PM
http://www.wagist.com/2012/dan-linehan/evidence-that-trayvon-martin-doubled-back

And Evidence site trying to tie the timeline with pictures and maps.

http://www.wagist.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/map_1000.jpg


http://www.wagist.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/martin_1000.jpg



Martin is initially reported as hanging out near the clubhouse, looking at houses and acting suspiciously. Then he walks by Zimmerman’s truck at around 1:30 on the 911 call and proceeds east.

At 2:08, Trayvon starts running. Six seconds later, we hear Zimmerman leave his truck to see where he went.

While Trayvon runs south towards Brandy Green’s townhouse, Zimmerman continues east, and remains on the line with the 911 dispatcher.

At a slow jogging pace, Trayvon is estimated to have arrived back at Brandy Green’s townhouse at around 2:40 on the 911 call.

Trayvon may have gone inside the townhouse, but it seems more likely that he remained outside to see if Zimmerman was still following him and just continued talking to his girlfriend over the next few minutes.

After a few minutes, Trayvon seems to have walked north, back up the sidewalk to confront Zimmerman about why he was followed.

George Zimmerman leaves his truck at 2:14 and reaches Retreat View Circle just over thirty seconds later at 2:45.

He agrees to stop pursuit at the dispatcher’s request. After the 911 call is complete, Zimmerman begins to head back to his truck to meet the police. At this point, he claims he was confronted by Trayvon, and walks a few steps down the sidewalk south to respond to him.

As we can see, it appears unlikely that Zimmerman ever “chased down” Martin. Zimmerman only pursued long enough to maintain visual contact to see what direction Trayvon was going.

Zimmerman traveled his entire route in around 30 seconds, he only went a very short distance and did so specifically to tell the 911 dispatcher where Trayvon had gone.

It wasn’t until a minute later that their altercation took place, when Martin apparently doubled back to confront Zimmerman.

John, the eyewitness who lives in [G], picks up the account from there.

SarasotaRepub
04-11-2012, 09:56 PM
I just read something on DU (http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002550421#post6) that made me choke on my tea...



Response to mike_c (Original post)
Wed Apr 11, 2012, 09:06 PM
liberalmuse

6. I think we can safely assume...




That DU won't be gathering a lynch mob. This is an intelligent community. In the end, DUers will come out on the right side of things. I just get so irritated with condescending posts like this that assumes liberals are knuckle draggers who have zero self-awareness. Honestly?!





:biggrin-new::biggrin-new::biggrin-new::biggrin-new::biggrin-new:

Elspeth
04-11-2012, 11:28 PM
I just read something on DU (http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002550421#post6) that made me choke on my tea...



Mike_C is a professor up at Humbolt, I think. Biologist. Quite possibly he has been in the Ivory Tower too long. Any scientific investigation of DU would reveal a lot of evidence for lynch mob reactions. Just today's threads, even.

hai
04-12-2012, 12:35 AM
Anyone notice that the media isn't rushing to the defense of George Zimmerman,who is Hispanic? I thought the media supported Hispanics.

txradioguy
04-12-2012, 05:31 AM
Mike_C is a professor up at Humbolt, I think. Biologist. Quite possibly he has been in the Ivory Tower too long. Any scientific investigation of DU would reveal a lot of evidence for lynch mob reactions. Just today's threads, even.

Bugsy has to be the dumbest professor ever granted tenure at a College in this country.

This is the same idiot that said anyone who served in Iraq or Afghanistan was guilty of war crimes. Tried to write a letter to get me in trouble to what he thought was my chain of command when I was in D.C.

I actually got to debate him one on one at the Rabbi's little short lived forum. He tried basing his theory on the Nuremburg Trials.

Needless to say his "theory" didn't hold up to well in a debate with me.

SarasotaRepub
04-12-2012, 08:18 AM
Anyone notice that the media isn't rushing to the defense of Mark Zimmerman,who is Hispanic? I thought the media supported Hispanics.


He's a "White Hispanic" hai, stay current. :biggrin-new:

Zathras
04-12-2012, 11:29 AM
Anyone notice that the media isn't rushing to the defense of Mark Zimmerman,who is Hispanic? I thought the media supported Hispanics.

Well, considering that Mark Zimmerman isn't in trouble, it's understandable.

George Zimmerman on the other hand.....

C'mon Hai, at least try to keep up with the conversation.

Arroyo_Doble
04-12-2012, 11:37 AM
http://www.wagist.com/2012/dan-linehan/evidence-that-trayvon-martin-doubled-back

And Evidence site trying to tie the timeline with pictures and maps.

http://www.wagist.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/map_1000.jpg


http://www.wagist.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/martin_1000.jpg



That is a great link, BTW.

hai
04-12-2012, 02:43 PM
Well, considering that Mark Zimmerman isn't in trouble, it's understandable.

George Zimmerman on the other hand.....

C'mon Hai, at least try to keep up with the conversation.

I just corrected the spelling.

Rockntractor
04-12-2012, 02:56 PM
Anyone notice that the media isn't rushing to the defense of George Zimmerman,who is Hispanic? I thought the media supported Hispanics.

One thing you will learn Hai is that it is really not about race, it is about group politics, as long as an individual remains in lock step with the progressive's party they are fine but if you exercise a differing opinion from the progressive ideal, you are no longer in their graces.
You talk about closed mindedness among conservatives while you have never noticed the double standard the liberal media and progressive leaders exercise.

Adam Wood
04-12-2012, 08:30 PM
That is a great link, BTW.Actually, it's completely full of shit, but the pictures sure are pretty.

Arroyo_Doble
04-12-2012, 11:13 PM
Actually, it's completely full of shit, but the pictures sure are pretty.

I was talking about the pictures. If they are innacuraye, I retract my accolade.

Teetop
04-13-2012, 10:01 PM
OMFG! Someone needs to be herded back to the plantion!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11111111 1111111111111111



http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=LONUecnsMb8

JB
04-14-2012, 08:19 PM
OMFG!...They're all gathered in front of a black owned business....that none of them support. LMAO.

Teetop
04-15-2012, 10:39 PM
If Corey is another Nifong, I hope she is brought up on charges and dis-barred!

Link. (http://www.southfloridacriminallawyersblog.com/2012/04/probable-cause-affidavit-in-george-zimmerman-case-woefully-inadequate.html)


.....

Let's break down where the Probable Cause Affidavit goes wrong. First, the affidavit makes assertions without providing a basis for the assertions. For instance, the Affidavit states: "Zimmerman confronted Martin and a struggle ensued." However, the affidavit doesn't explain the basis for the conclusion that "Zimmerman confronted Martin." Did a witness say they saw Zimmerman confront Martin? Did Zimmerman admit to confronting Martin? On what basis does the investigating officer swear under oath that he has reason to believe that Zimmerman confronted Martin?

Secondly, the affidavit does not even pretend to state a fact establishing that the shooting was committed with "ill will, hatred, spite, or evil intent." At most, the affidavit claims that Zimmerman said the words "these f------ punks" at some point prior to the shooting. Is the prosecution basing its murder charge on the phrase "f------ punks?"
Without even a single sentence of the affidavit claiming that Zimmerman pulled the trigger with "ill will, hatred, spite, or evil intent," it is hard to imagine how the prosecution, in good faith, can file charges for Second Degree Murder.

Lastly, and perhaps most importantly, the affidavit omits material evidence, as well as misstates a known fact. For instance, the affidavit claims that a police dispatcher "instructed" Zimmerman not to follow Martin. However, in the recorded phone conversation, the police dispatcher merely tells Zimmerman: "we don't need you to do that." While this may seem like a minor discrepancy, it is clearly inaccurate to state that the dispatcher "instructed" Zimmerman not to follow Martin. At a minimum, this misstatement of fact evinces a disregard for accuracy. What's worse, the affidavit never makes mention of the 911 caller, who claimed that (1) Zimmerman yelled for help; and (2) that Martin as on top of Zimmerman, "beating up" on Zimmerman. While the affidavit claims that Zimmerman "admitted [to] shooting Martin," the affidavit omits that Zimmerman claimed to have shot Martin in self-defense.

These omissions potentially render the Probable Cause Affidavit legally insufficient, and entitle Zimmerman to an evidentiary hearing on the sufficiency of probable cause. As the Florida Supreme Court held in Johnson v. State, 660 So. 2d 648 (Fla. 1995), if omitted material is added to an affidavit and thus defeats probable cause; and if the omission resulted from intentional or reckless police conduct with the intent to deceive, then a defendant is entitled to an evidentiary hearing.

The woefully inadequate Probable Cause Affidavit indicates that the prosecution is skating on thin ice. Manslaughter charges would be far more appropriate.

Elspeth
04-16-2012, 12:11 AM
Actually, it's completely full of shit, but the pictures sure are pretty.


Actually, there's a lot of truth at that website. Having analyzed the tape myself and having culled through a ton of news to put together a timeline, I have a lot of respect for their timeline.

Sorry if you can't seem to understand how important timelines are. You'll see during the trial.

Adam Wood
04-16-2012, 12:09 PM
Actually, there's a lot of truth at that website. Having analyzed the tape myself and having culled through a ton of news to put together a timeline, I have a lot of respect for their timeline.

Sorry if you can't seem to understand how important timelines are. You'll see during the trial.They jump to a whole lot of conclusions without basis in fact, not the least of which is this rather ludicrous claim that Zimmerman doubled-back all the way around the building and then caught Martin nearly where he was in the first place. More absurd is that he allegedly did this in something like a minute and a half. No way. Their claim is crap.

RedGrouse
04-23-2012, 07:53 PM
Twitter lynch mob: George Zimmerman is out on bail? Let’s kill him!
http://twitchy.com/2012/04/23/twitter-lynch-mob-now-that-george-zimmerman-is-out-on-bail-lets-kill-him/

'Someone Kill the Judge'
http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/someone-kill-judge_640598.html

Teetop
04-25-2012, 11:31 PM
Can you say racist?!! (http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/04/25/us-usa-florida-shooting-zimmerman-idUSBRE83O18H20120425)


.....
The 28-year-old insurance-fraud investigator comes from a deeply Catholic background and was taught in his early years to do right by those less fortunate. He was raised in a racially integrated household and himself has black roots through an Afro-Peruvian great-grandfather - the father of the maternal grandmother who helped raise him.

A criminal justice student who aspired to become a judge, Zimmerman also concerned himself with the safety of his neighbors after a series of break-ins committed by young African-American men.

Though civil rights demonstrators have argued Zimmerman should not have prejudged Martin, one black neighbor of the Zimmermans said recent history should be taken into account.

"Let's talk about the elephant in the room. I'm black, OK?" the woman said, declining to be identified because she anticipated backlash due to her race. She leaned in to look a reporter directly in the eyes. "There were black boys robbing houses in this neighborhood," she said. "That's why George was suspicious of Trayvon Martin."
.....

Gina
05-02-2012, 01:54 PM
I don't know if this has been posted elsewhere in this thread, but I figgur this would be a good place to drop this link.

http://gzlegalcase.com/ Zimmerman's legal team is in charge of it apparently.

Elspeth
05-02-2012, 06:52 PM
Interesting take on the whole sad Zimmerman situation.


http://www.cashill.com/intellect_fraud/trayvon.htm

On March 8, 1971, my friends from grad school and I drove from Purdue in my yellow VW bug to watch a large screen presentation of the first Ali-Frazier fight.

Given the imperatives of student poverty, we headed not south to Indianapolis, which was forty miles closer, but north to Gary, which was five dollars cheaper. The moment we walked into the theater, however, I understood what the others did not: five bucks or no, Gary was a mistake.

Other than the fifty or so hardhats sitting together in makeshift bleachers by the exit door, we were about the only white people in the joint...

...Still, the fight proved to be worth the risk. It was both brutal and brilliant as only great fights can be. Going into the fifteenth, it seemed to all of us too close to call.

“OK,” I said to my friends between rounds, “we’re out of here.” They thought me daft and resisted. Sharing some of my Newark experiences, I explained patiently that if Ali lost a fight that the crowd expected him to win, there would be hell to pay, and we’d likely do the paying.

“But we’re for Ali,” my friends protested. We’re for Ali? How had it come to this? I wondered. How could so many seemingly smart Americans be so thoroughly naïve, so utterly delusional?

Forty years later, I am still wondering. Today, my liberal friends tell me, “We’re for Trayvon.” They remain seated, however, in that metaphorical Gary auditorium.

They are the white people who live in the cities, who gentrify neighborhoods, who take public transportation, who attend jazz concerts and blues festivals, and who send their children to urban public schools. If the racial embers they now so casually fan burst into flames, they will be the ones who get burned.

George Zimmerman is their Joe Frazier. Although he is as Hispanic as Barack Obama is black—more actually, as he was raised by his ethnic parent and speaks her language fluently—he has been deemed, in the memorable words of the New York Times, a “white Hispanic.”

As in Frazier’s case, this has less to do with what Zimmerman looks like than the oppressor role he has been assigned in the media’s multicultural morality play.

The play’s basic message is this: despite our black president, “nothing has changed.” Racist cops still conspire with thuggish vigilantes to kill young black men--Emmett Till all over again.

To assure the play’s proper outcome, the media have had to take some dramatic license with the facts, none more visually misleading than the casting of an elfin 12 year-old in the role of the 6-2, 17 year-old Trayvon Martin.....

RedGrouse
05-13-2012, 11:17 PM
Collier judge upholds 'Stand Your Ground' stabbing death defense in teen's bus stop bullying
http://www.naplesnews.com/news/2012/jan/03/collier-judge-upholds-stand-your-ground-defense-ca/

A case similar to George Zimmerman, but this time a teenager named Jorge Saavedra who stabbed Dylan Nuno in 2011. He did not go to trial after it was ruled in self-defense on "Stand Your Ground".

Elspeth
05-17-2012, 08:19 PM
Zimmerman was badly injured.
Trayvon had drugs (THC) in his system.

Why am I not surprised?

http://abcnews.go.com/US/trayvon-martin-documents-released-shooting-george-zimmerman/story?id=16371852#.T7WTju1RnHi


http://a.abcnews.com/images/US/ht_george_zimmerman_injuries_ll_120517_wg.jpg

Cops, Witnesses Back Up George Zimmerman's Version of Trayvon Martin Shooting


Two police reports written the night that George Zimmerman shot Trayvon Martin said that Zimmerman had a bloody face and nose, according to police reports made public today.

The reports also note that two witness accounts appear to back up Zimmerman's version of what happened when they describe a man on his back with another person wearing a hoodie straddling him and throwing punches...

...Two police officers reported that when they arrived at the scene of the shooting, Zimmerman seemed to have a battered nose and bloodied face. One wrote that his "facial area was bloodied," and the back of his clothing was soiled with wet grass.

"Zimmerman was also bleeding from the nose and the back of his head," Officer Ricardo Ayala wrote.

Another officer wrote, "I saw that Zimmerman's face was bloodied and it appeared to me that his nose was broken."

Witnesses, whose names were redacted from the report, also lent support to Zimmerman's version of what happened.

"He witnesses a black male, wearing a dark colored 'hoodie' on top of a white or Hispanic male and throwing punches 'MMA (mixed martial arts) style,'" the police report of the witness said. "He then heard a pop. He stated that after hearing the pop, he observed the person he had previously observed on top of the other person (the male wearing the hoodie) laid out on the grass."

A second witness described a person on the ground with another straddling him and throwing punches. The man on the bottom was yelling for help, the witness told police.....

...The autopsy also shows that Zimmerman shot Martin from a distance of between 1 inch and 18 inches away, bolstering Zimmerman's claim that he shot Martin during a close struggle.

Martin's autopsy report also revealed that there was a quarter-inch by half-inch abrasion on the left fourth finger of Martin, another indication of a possible struggle.

The teen, who lived in Miami, was in Sanford while serving a suspension for a bag of marijuana being discovered in his possession. Martin had THC, the drug found in marijuana, in his blood on the night of his death, according to the autopsy. His family told ABC News that it was "trace amounts" of THC.

END OF STORY


Oh, and now the evidence seems to support Zimmerman, he is no longer "White" or a "White Hispanic":


....Zimmerman, 28, is a multi-racial Hispanic man who volunteered for the neighborhood watch committee who claimed that he shot Martin in self-defense after the 6-foot tall, 160 pound teenager knocked him to the ground, banged his head against the ground and went for Zimmerman's gun....

http://abcnews.go.com/US/cops-witnesses-back-george-zimmermans-version/story?id=16371852#.T7WVSu1RnHg

Teetop
05-20-2012, 02:57 PM
I don't know if I missed this information or it was never posted.....

How far away was the 7-11 from the "gated community"?

The reason I ask is, Trayvon was shot at 7:17pm local time. Trayvon is on video from the 7-11 at approx. 6:23pm local time. Was the store that far away, or was Trayvon "casing" houses on his way back from the store?

Video of Trayvon at the 7-11, time is in the upper left corner. (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/trayvon-martin-trip-7-11-newly-released-video-article-1.1081543)

Elspeth
05-20-2012, 07:07 PM
I don't know if I missed this information or it was never posted.....

How far away was the 7-11 from the "gated community"?

The reason I ask is, Trayvon was shot at 7:17pm local time. Trayvon is on video from the 7-11 at approx. 6:23pm local time. Was the store that far away, or was Trayvon "casing" houses on his way back from the store?

Video of Trayvon at the 7-11, time is in the upper left corner. (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/trayvon-martin-trip-7-11-newly-released-video-article-1.1081543)

http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.1081561.1337545586!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_635/image.jpg

Interesting how dark that hoodie is and how much of his face it covers. (Remember, we've only seen the white hoodie and the photoshopped picture. The 7-11 Time stamp is 6:24pm; Zimmerman called the non emergency dispatch just after 7pm.

The closest 7-11 is on Rinehart Rd: 1125 Rinehart Rd, Sanford, FL 32771 It is about a mile from The Retreat at Twin Lakes. Brandy Green's house was on Retreat View Circle. Not sure of the exact address, but there is a home for sale at 2350 Retreat View Cir, Sanford, FL 32771-7296, and the map quest directions indicate the distance of about a mile.

Assuming that Trayvon walked the whole mile back, it might have taken him 20-25 minutes from the 7-11 to the clubhouse. This would also mean that Trayvon left the house a little before 6pm. Since he left after Tracy Martin and Brandy Green left for dinner, this would mean that Dad and girlfriend and left the house well before 6:00. Assuming their arrival back home to be well after the incident (cops are gone, neighbors back inside), I see them getting back around 8 or so, at the earliest. This makes the question of Dad not worrying where Trayvon was very interesting.

Let's say Trayvon leaves at 5:50--this gets him to 7-11 by 6:15-6:20. (This means Tracy and Brandy left at the latest around 5:45--although they could have left anytime from 4:30 on. (A lot depends on when they had dinner reservations.) But assuming Trayvon leaves around 5:50 and Tracy and Brandy return home at 8:00pm, that would mean that Brandy's son had been alone over two hours. Surely, this should have alarmed Brandy, since her child was younger than Trayvon. (Remember, the Skittles were allegedly for Trayvon's "little brother"). Tracy Martin should also have wondered where his son was by that time.

I find it hard to believe that a responsible father would come home, find his son gone for two hours, go to bed (at 10?) after the son is gone for over 4 hours, and NOT check with anyone: the cousin, the police, etc. Sorry, but I have always thought this family was bizarre, and Tracy's behavior has always seemed completely careless and disengaged.

Elspeth
05-20-2012, 07:10 PM
Dershowitz: Zimmerman Affidavit ‘Irresponsible And Unethical’

link (http://www.wagist.com/2012/dan-linehan/dershowitz-zimmerman-affidavit-irresponsible-and-unethical)

Harvard University law professor Alan Dershowitz made an appearance on on MSNBC’s Hardball to discuss the Zimmerman arrest affidavit, and had some incredibly harsh language for Angela Corey concerning her actions in the George Zimmerman prosecution.

Dershowitz is a well-known Democrat with a column on the Huffington Post, but seemed stunned by how poorly written the affidavit was, going so far as to call it “irresponsible and unethical,” as well as Corey’s actions politically motivated. He also said that if the prosecution didn’t have more evidence for the case than what we’ve seen, “a good judge would throw it out.”


(The video of the interview is at the link.)

JB
05-20-2012, 07:31 PM
The middle eastern owned 7-11 up the street from me would not have let him into the store dressed that way. No face coverings, sunglasses, pulled down hats or hoodies in the store.

We are a long way from "no shoes, no shirt, no service".

Gina
05-21-2012, 02:38 AM
I find it hard to believe that a responsible father would come home, find his son gone for two hours, go to bed (at 10?) after the son is gone for over 4 hours, and NOT check with anyone: the cousin, the police, etc. Sorry, but I have always thought this family was bizarre, and Tracy's behavior has always seemed completely careless and disengaged.
I have seen no evidence that Tracy Martin was all that 'engaged'. Ever. What this ^^ could show is that it wasn't unusual for Trayvon to be unaccounted for, for long periods of time. His mother couldn't handle him which is why she sent him to his dad's for a time. Trayvon had no respect for his father or Tracy would have known where Trayvon was, because he would have asked if he could go, or at the very least told/left a note as to his whereabouts.

Live by the hoodie, die by the hoodie.