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View Full Version : 3-Year-Old Accidentally Shot Himself With Found Gun, Mom Faces Manslaughter Charges



Hawkgirl
03-28-2012, 08:43 PM
Julio had unbuckled himself and climbed into the front seat to ask his mother for candy. McIntosh moved the gun from under the passenger seat to under the driver's seat so Julio could not reach it. Then, she went inside the convenience store for food, leaving Julio unrestrained, the prosecutor said.

Julio found the gun and shot himself in the head. McIntosh's 8-month old daughter was in the car at the time and was not hurt.

Friends and family told detectives that Vita routinely showed off the gun with a laser sight and on one occasion offered to let Julio hold the gun before another adult intervened.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/28/toddler-shot-himself-tacoma-jahnisha-mcintosh_n_1386029.html?&icid=maing-grid7|main5|dl1|sec1_lnk3%26pLid%3D147460

This can happen when stupid people buy guns. Like voting, there should be an IQ test given before selling someone a gun. RIP little boy. The mother SHOULD be charged..this was not a freak accident imo.

fettpett
03-28-2012, 08:55 PM
I've let my kids hold my gun with no issues, this woman was stupid and negligent for leaving her young kids in the car unsupervised at that age. My oldest is 8 and I wont leave him in the car by himself.

Hawkgirl
03-28-2012, 09:02 PM
I've let my kids hold my gun with no issues,

Why would you let a young kid hold a gun? for what purpose?

Rockntractor
03-28-2012, 09:05 PM
Why would you let a young kid hold a gun? for what purpose?

I was firing them at 10 and went out hunting by myself at 12. You start teaching them to respect guns early under supervision and you don't have 8 year olds killing themselves.

fettpett
03-28-2012, 09:08 PM
Why would you let a young kid hold a gun? for what purpose?

one it was unloaded, clips weren't loaded either and in the case. two, to teach them from a young age that guns are a tool and not a toy. letting them hold it and feel what it is like in a controlled setting lets them explore and get their curiosity out in a safe setting. That way if they do see it later, they know how to deal with it properly and understand that it is NOT something to play with.

Hawkgirl
03-28-2012, 09:12 PM
I was firing them at 10 and went out hunting by myself at 12. You start teaching them to respect guns early under supervision and you don't have 8 year olds killing themselves.

I fired my father's shotgun at 12, but Fettpett stated his oldest was 8, so how young are his kids? I don't see the point in showing first graders handguns. If you're going to keep guns in your house, and it is your right to do so, keep them under lock and key and a child shouldn't have access to one, because chances are, they would harm themselves before harming an intruder.

Hawkgirl
03-28-2012, 09:15 PM
I know how to shoot shot guns by the way, not hand guns. Since I live alone, with my almost 3 year old daughter, I've thought about getting one...but I'm too worried about my curious toddler finding it in the house. My dad is willing to give me one of his shot guns but I still don't feel comfortable with a gun in my house, around my kid. Never mind showing it to her or handling it.

Rockntractor
03-28-2012, 09:16 PM
I fired my father's shotgun at 12, but Fettpett stated his oldest was 8, so how young are his kids? I don't see the point in showing first graders handguns. If you're going to keep guns in your house, and it is your right to do so, keep them under lock and key and a child shouldn't have access to one, because chances are, they would harm themselves before harming an intruder.

If you ever had a handgun fired in front of you when you are young you realize the awesome power of it, if you just tell them no there is always the chance they will find one when you aren't around and decide they want to know the mystery, at a friends house even laying on the ground, it can happen. Kids need a demonstration when they are young.

fettpett
03-28-2012, 09:22 PM
I fired my father's shotgun at 12, but Fettpett stated his oldest was 8, so how young are his kids? I don't see the point in showing first graders handguns. If you're going to keep guns in your house, and it is your right to do so, keep them under lock and key and a child shouldn't have access to one, because chances are, they would harm themselves before harming an intruder.

8,7, and 4, all three have have held it and I have had a discussion with them about it. Putting a gun under lock and key that is meant for home defense is illogical and defeats the purpose of the gun. There are safes that are biometric that are easy access and relatively inexpensive if you feel thats how you need to handle it.

Think about it this way, if you're exposed to something on a regular basis, and are dealt with it on a intelligent and clam way the kids are less likely to be curious enough about it to go looking for it and play with it. If someone comes down on them hard and makes it forbidden then they are more likely to go looking for it.

it's a tool, dangerous and designed to kill, but no less a tool. Education on gun safety is key.

Adam Wood
03-28-2012, 09:39 PM
I was firing them at 10 and went out hunting by myself at 12. You start teaching them to respect guns early under supervision and you don't have 8 year olds killing themselves.Ten is a long way from three, which is how old this kid was.


8,7, and 4, all three have have held it and I have had a discussion with them about it. Putting a gun under lock and key that is meant for home defense is illogical and defeats the purpose of the gun. There are safes that are biometric that are easy access and relatively inexpensive if you feel thats how you need to handle it.

Think about it this way, if you're exposed to something on a regular basis, and are dealt with it on a intelligent and clam way the kids are less likely to be curious enough about it to go looking for it and play with it. If someone comes down on them hard and makes it forbidden then they are more likely to go looking for it.

it's a tool, dangerous and designed to kill, but no less a tool. Education on gun safety is key.I'd be a little twitchy about how well it would "take" at four years old, but each kid is different. I wholeheartedly agree with you that gun education, early and often, is the key. But I'm not going to leave my loaded gun unattended in a car (or anywhere else) within easy reach of any three-year-old, that's for sure. These dingbats clearly were just careless morons who themselves didn't know what the gun was capable of.

fettpett
03-28-2012, 09:51 PM
Ten is a long way from three, which is how old this kid was.

I'd be a little twitchy about how well it would "take" at four years old, but each kid is different. I wholeheartedly agree with you that gun education, early and often, is the key. But I'm not going to leave my loaded gun unattended in a car (or anywhere else) within easy reach of any three-year-old, that's for sure. These dingbats clearly were just careless morons who themselves didn't know what the gun was capable of.

I completely agree with you, wont leave it loaded anywhere.

I'm sure didn't really sink in to my 4 year old, but it was her first real exposer to it and it was more about that then the education part. My son and oldest daughter it was their second time and they are old enough for it to really start to sink in, I'll keep doing it till they are old enough to actually start shooting. If I end up with my grandfathers guns like I had asked several years ago, I'm hoping to start my son on his old .22.

Odysseus
03-28-2012, 10:50 PM
I know how to shoot shot guns by the way, not hand guns. Since I live alone, with my almost 3 year old daughter, I've thought about getting one...but I'm too worried about my curious toddler finding it in the house. My dad is willing to give me one of his shot guns but I still don't feel comfortable with a gun in my house, around my kid. Never mind showing it to her or handling it.

If you don't leave your gun loaded and within reach of your unsupervised child, you won't have a problem. OTOH, if she grows up knowing how to use one, she will never be a victim.

Mrs. O has a morbid fear of guns. Last year, I sold a black powder rifle that I'd been given as a gift, and before I took it out of the house, my oldest wanted to hold it, so I let her. Mrs. O freaked, even though loading and firing it would have taken considerable skill and effort. OTOH, my father taught me to shoot BB guns when I was five or six, and I've had a .22 single shot rifle since I was eight, which is my daughter's age. I was not permitted to touch it without my dad's supervision, but because he'd taught me to handle it, I knew that it wasn't a toy.

If you are really worried about her getting her hands on it, there are a number of gun locks that an adult can remove quickly but which effectively child-proof a gun. I saw one a few years ago that was a simple elastic cover for a handgun with a barrel block. You put the block in the barrel and slid the elastic over the frame, and it took more strength than a child's to pull it off, but it was quick for an adult. Omega makes an interesting one that also pretty simple and innovative.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=7iowMb2VxCU

Elspeth
03-28-2012, 11:46 PM
Can I ask why a mother would leave a 3-year-old in the car alone under any circumstances? Here in Southern California, we have equally stupid people who leave young children in the car during a heat wave with the windows rolled up and they die. There have been parents who left their kids in the car and have had them abducted. There are so many stories like this. I really think that some people need a test of basic common sense before they reproduce.

Rockntractor
03-29-2012, 12:01 AM
Can I ask why a mother would leave a 3-year-old in the car alone under any circumstances? Here in Southern California, we have equally stupid people who leave young children in the car during a heat wave with the windows rolled up and they die. There have been parents who left their kids in the car and have had them abducted. There are so many stories like this. I really think that some people need a test of basic common sense before they reproduce.

Good point!

Hawkgirl
03-29-2012, 01:01 AM
If you don't leave your gun loaded and within reach of your unsupervised child, you won't have a problem. OTOH, if she grows up knowing how to use one, she will never be a victim.

Mrs. O has a morbid fear of guns. Last year, I sold a black powder rifle that I'd been given as a gift, and before I took it out of the house, my oldest wanted to hold it, so I let her. Mrs. O freaked, even though loading and firing it would have taken considerable skill and effort. OTOH, my father taught me to shoot BB guns when I was five or six, and I've had a .22 single shot rifle since I was eight, which is my daughter's age. I was not permitted to touch it without my dad's supervision, but because he'd taught me to handle it, I knew that it wasn't a toy.

If you are really worried about her getting her hands on it, there are a number of gun locks that an adult can remove quickly but which effectively child-proof a gun. I saw one a few years ago that was a simple elastic cover for a handgun with a barrel block. You put the block in the barrel and slid the elastic over the frame, and it took more strength than a child's to pull it off, but it was quick for an adult. Omega makes an interesting one that also pretty simple and innovative.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=7iowMb2VxCU

I still think, for my purposes, which is not to carry, but for home defense, would be a shot gun. It would be difficult for a child to use because of size. I can easily load one, it has great stopping power, it's just point and shoot..and there is nothing like the sound of racking your shotgun slide back to a potential intruder.:smile-new:
The drawback is that's it's not easy to hide and recoil is strong.

I'm just not comfortable with handguns.

BTW...my father has a few double barrel shotguns, 12 gauge, old skool style that I like, that I would most likely inherit. He also has two rifles, but I've never shot those. He's willing to give me one of the shotguns if I ever decide to have one.

Hawkgirl
03-29-2012, 01:04 AM
Can I ask why a mother would leave a 3-year-old in the car alone under any circumstances? Here in Southern California, we have equally stupid people who leave young children in the car during a heat wave with the windows rolled up and they die. There have been parents who left their kids in the car and have had them abducted. There are so many stories like this. I really think that some people need a test of basic common sense before they reproduce.

It's happened everywhere, not just in California. My parents actually saved a neighbor's month old baby a few years ago. This neighbor and her mother left their one month old baby in the car and went to Walmart. My parents ran into them and my mom asked how the new baby was doing. The mother and grandmother looked at each other and the mom ran to the car. Luckily, they hadn't been in the store long and the baby was fine. She and her husband send my parents a huge flower bouquet as a thanks.

Elspeth
03-29-2012, 02:27 AM
It's happened everywhere, not just in California. My parents actually saved a neighbor's month old baby a few years ago. This neighbor and her mother left their one month old baby in the car and went to Walmart. My parents ran into them and my mom asked how the new baby was doing. The mother and grandmother looked at each other and the mom ran to the car. Luckily, they hadn't been in the store long and the baby was fine. She and her husband send my parents a huge flower bouquet as a thanks.

OMG, they forgot the baby!:scared:

Actually there was a sad story in Virginia a couple of years ago about a couple with a young baby. Both parents worked and it was the father's day to bring the baby to daycare. They put the baby in the back seat of the dad's car, but the dad forgot that his son was there and went into work. When he left work after a full day, the baby was dead in the back seat. The dad was charged with manslaughter but was acquitted. There was a lot of talk at the time about something called "Forgotten Baby Syndrome." (http://lansing.injuryboard.com/wrongful-death/it-could-happen-to-youforgotten-baby-syndrome.aspx?googleid=260000) Apparently parents were getting so stressed and tired that they were unable to think and went on "auto pilot." At least that was the theory. I remember the case because I couldn't imagine the horror and pain of that mother finding out that her son was gone because her husband forgot he was there.

noonwitch
03-29-2012, 08:56 AM
I was firing them at 10 and went out hunting by myself at 12. You start teaching them to respect guns early under supervision and you don't have 8 year olds killing themselves.


That's reasonable, although, I'm not sure hunting alone at 12 is always safe, I guess it all depends on how close you are to home and what you are hunting. It's not that I think a well-trained responsible 12 year old can't handle the gun, it's more that a 12 year old can't always handle game wardens, cranky neighbors and large game like bears on his own.

Hawkgirl
03-29-2012, 12:02 PM
That's reasonable, although, I'm not sure hunting alone at 12 is always safe, I guess it all depends on how close you are to home and what you are hunting. It's not that I think a well-trained responsible 12 year old can't handle the gun, it's more that a 12 year old can't always handle game wardens, cranky neighbors and large game like bears on his own.

My father and his brothers grew up in bumfluck Sicily and they started hunting at the age of 8 or 10. Everyone in Sicily had guns early on and the men/boys provided for their family the old fashioned way, hunting. You just needed a dependable weapon and a pack of beagles and you had dinner on the table.

Handguns being handled by kids is a different thing imo.

Gentleman Pirate
03-29-2012, 12:09 PM
This happened up here. It's a horrible story and I feel awful for this woman who lost her child. This happened within a week or two of a police officer who left his gun (loaded) in his van as his kids played and his son shot his sister. Killing her.

No charges will be filed against this cop who left a loaded weapon (his personal gun) in an unlocked glove box and this woman is being charged with manslaughter. Why?

http://www.king5.com/news/local/Child-reportedly-hurt-in-Stanwood-shooting-142211265.html

Hawkgirl
03-29-2012, 12:13 PM
This happened up here. It's a horrible story and I feel awful for this woman who lost her child. This happened within a week or two of a police officer who left his gun (loaded) in his van as his kids played and his son shot his sister. Killing her.

No charges will be filed against this cop who left a loaded weapon (his personal gun) in an unlocked glove box and this woman is being charged with manslaughter. Why?

http://www.king5.com/news/local/Child-reportedly-hurt-in-Stanwood-shooting-142211265.html

Responsibility.

If you're going to carry a gun, you have to be responsible for it. The woman kept a loaded gun within the reach of a 3 y/o child...what could possibly go wrong? :rolleyes:

Poor kid.

Gentleman Pirate
03-29-2012, 12:16 PM
Responsibility.

If you're going to carry a gun, you have to be responsible for it. The woman kept a loaded gun within the reach of a 3 y/o child...what could possibly go wrong? :rolleyes:

Poor kid.

Exactly, so this officer should be charged as well. He wont be according to a news article I cant find at the moment. It seems hypocritical that he would get a pass while she is being charged.

Adam Wood
03-29-2012, 02:05 PM
http://i44.tinypic.com/2wfv7sk.jpg

Odysseus
03-29-2012, 03:43 PM
I still think, for my purposes, which is not to carry, but for home defense, would be a shot gun. It would be difficult for a child to use because of size. I can easily load one, it has great stopping power, it's just point and shoot..and there is nothing like the sound of racking your shotgun slide back to a potential intruder.:smile-new:
The drawback is that's it's not easy to hide and recoil is strong.

I'm just not comfortable with handguns.

BTW...my father has a few double barrel shotguns, 12 gauge, old skool style that I like, that I would most likely inherit. He also has two rifles, but I've never shot those. He's willing to give me one of the shotguns if I ever decide to have one.

Double-barreled shotguns tend to be hard to maneuver in tight spaces, which makes them less than ideal for home defense. You also only get two shots. You're better off with a tactical shotgun, possibly one with a pistol grip in lieu of a stock, if you can handle the recoil.



Mossberg 500 SP: $310-$340 from a dealer




http://www.houseguns.com/gunpics/mossberg500.jpg

The Mossberg 500 is the top selling pump action shotgun in the USA. It is available in many different barrel lengths and stock configurations. Shown is the Mossberg 500 pistol grip model. Pistol grip shotguns may look cool, but are only fun for a little while. You will be glad you went with the rifle butt stock instead. Aftermarket accessories galore! There is also a 510 Mini version great for smaller shooters in .410 or 20 gauge. The 510 Mini has a 18.5 inch barrel and weighs only 5 pounds!
Mossberg Website (http://www.mossberg.com/)




Exactly, so this officer should be charged as well. He wont be according to a news article I cant find at the moment. It seems hypocritical that he would get a pass while she is being charged.

The two cases certainly look similar enough.

Hawkgirl
03-29-2012, 04:41 PM
Double-barreled shotguns tend to be hard to maneuver in tight spaces, which makes them less than ideal for home defense. Y.

True, the barrel is pretty long...I'll look into your suggestion, thanks.

Janice
03-29-2012, 06:14 PM
I was firing them at 10 and went out hunting by myself at 12. You start teaching them to respect guns early under supervision and you don't have 8 year olds killing themselves.

I was firing at 8 and hunting with others at 10. That was in Maine. Lots a deer, moose and bear. And plenty of snakes. We had our own slaughter shed. Closest neighbors within miles were relatives. I luv shooting if for no other reason than to compare weapons and to "get the feel".

I think its best to start early to familiarize too. But I would never leave a handgun around loaded. And never show it/them off. And I wouldnt leave kids that young alone either. I agree that just because somebody can have children, doesnt mean they should have children. This is how we breed common sense right out of the gene pool.

Reminds me of voting. Too dang many idiots just dont have a clue (raised by parents who shouldnt be parents). We are engineering common sense out of the voting process. This is how we get clueless "leaders" and thus lose our liberties and our constitutional republic as it were.