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SarasotaRepub
04-20-2012, 02:51 PM
What a fucking moron... (http://www.infowars.com/climate-alarmist-calls-for-burning-down-skeptics-homes/)




“Let’s start keeping track of them…let’s make them pay”

Paul Joseph Watson
Infowars.com
Thursday, April 19, 2012


Writing for Forbes Magazine, climate change alarmist Steve Zwick calls for skeptics of man-made global warming to be tracked, hunted down and have their homes burned to the ground, yet another shocking illustration of how eco-fascism is rife within the environmentalist lobby.

Comparing climate change skeptics to residents in Tennessee who refused to pay a $75 fee, resulting in firemen sitting back and watching their houses burn down, Zwick rants that anyone who actively questions global warming propaganda should face the same treatment.

“We know who the active denialists are – not the people who buy the lies, mind you, but the people who create the lies. Let’s start keeping track of them now, and when the famines come, let’s make them pay. Let’s let their houses burn. Let’s swap their safe land for submerged islands. Let’s force them to bear the cost of rising food prices,” writes Zwick (http://www.forbes.com/sites/stevezwick/2012/04/19/a-tennessee-firemans-solution-to-climate-change/), adding, “They broke the climate. Why should the rest of us have to pay for it?”



I think dear Steve needs to check into a rubber room...

Apache
04-20-2012, 04:04 PM
C'mon by, Steve...



I'll be next to the burning tires.

Zeus
04-20-2012, 04:13 PM
Wouldn't that enhance 'climate change"

Apache
04-20-2012, 06:27 PM
Wouldn't that enhance 'climate change"

Nah! The thick, black, billowing smoke will make it easier for him to find his way...:biggrin-new:





I assume that you were asking me...:friendly_wink:

m00
04-21-2012, 12:59 AM
Wouldn't that enhance 'climate change"

That was my first thought.

My second thought was that probably the average climate-change-skeptic produces no more or less carbon than the average global-warming-evangelist. And Al Gore jetting around the world and owning multiple homes isn't exactly leading by example. This is actually a great example of our talk-is-cheap politics of the 21st century. I'm pretty sure the people I debate global warming with in real life drive a car with comparable MPG (I actually drive on the weekends and take the metro to work, so ha!) and live in a house with a comparable heating bill. Buy the same food. Live the same western lifestyle.

So if nobody is choosing to make the "omg global warming" sacrifices, why are we even having the debate?

Odysseus
04-21-2012, 01:21 AM
So if nobody is choosing to make the "omg global warming" sacrifices, why are we even having the debate?

Because it's a hoax. Global Warming was always a scam to force public acceptance for greater government control of the economy. It's also a convenient way to give hysterics an excuse to blame Republicans for the weather.

Retread
04-21-2012, 05:25 PM
I am extremely disappointed in Forbes for allowing anything like this anywhere in their publications. They know better and have editorialized against AGW in the past. As a subscriber I will be posting up commentary to this end with them.

Stupidity personified Mr. Zwick.

Odysseus
04-21-2012, 05:41 PM
I am extremely disappointed in Forbes for allowing anything like this anywhere in their publications. They know better and have editorialized against AGW in the past. As a subscriber I will be posting up commentary to this end with them.

Stupidity personified Mr. Zwick.

On the contrary, Forbes is brilliant. We can cite all of the facts, but until people see the mindset of the AGW loons, they won't understand that this is a totalitarian obsession. Bravo, Forbes, for letting their own words expose them.

Retread
04-21-2012, 11:03 PM
You do have a point.

Wei Wu Wei
04-22-2012, 08:44 PM
Because it's a hoax. Global Warming was always a scam to force public acceptance for greater government control of the economy. It's also a convenient way to give hysterics an excuse to blame Republicans for the weather.

What is your evidence for it being a hoax or a scam?

The response to large scale climate change may indeed involve greater government intervention in the economy, but that doesn't make it a hoax. The government and certain special interests may even be intentionally exploiting the climate change phenomenon for financial gain, but that doesn't make it a hoax.

It may even, as you claim, be a platform to launch attacks on the Republican party for political reasons, but again, this doesn't mean it's a hoax.

Just because something can be exploited by certain groups for financial or political gain doesn't necessarily mean that those groups are fabricating it, or that it is a "hoax".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_opinion_on_climate_change


97–98% of the most published climate researchers say humans are causing global warming.[106] In another study 97.4% of publishing climatologists and just under 90% of earth scientists, broadly construed, say that significant man made global warming is occurring. Of those who didn't, most were unsure.

This consensus is shared by American groups as well as international groups of scientists.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_warming_controversy


The global warming controversy includes a variety of disputes about the nature, causes, and consequences of global warming. The debates are more in the popular media than in the scientific literature.[1][2] The disputed issues involve the causes of increased global average air temperature, especially since the mid-20th century, whether such a warming trend is unprecedented or within normal climatic variations, whether humankind has contributed significantly to it, and whether the increase is wholly or partially an artifact of poor measurements. Additional disputes concern estimates of climate sensitivity, predictions of additional warming, and what the consequences of global warming will be.

In the scientific literature, there is a strong consensus that global surface temperatures have increased in recent decades and that the trend is caused mainly by human-induced emissions of greenhouse gases.[3][4][5] No scientific body of national or international standing disagrees with this view,[6] though a few organizations hold non-committal positions.[7]



While I certainly can agree with you that there may be financial and/or political motivations behind the people who respond to the global warming issue, I don't see how that discredits the science. Can you see how just as there are people who look to gain financially and politically from the global warming issue, there are also people and groups who look to gain financially and politically from denying the issue?

Rockntractor
04-22-2012, 08:57 PM
http://www.smiley-lol.com/smiley/manger/grignoter/gateaux.gif

Odysseus
04-22-2012, 10:04 PM
What is your evidence for it being a hoax or a scam?

If I thought that you were really serious about being informed on this issue, I'd gladly engage in discussion, but we both know that you aren't. You know as well as anyone that there had been no warming for over a decade, that the hockey stick model has been proven to be a fabrication, that the various advocates of AGW have been hard at work destroying evidence and refusing to permit independent analysis of their data, that the models that predict warming fail when used to demonstrate current conditions and a host of other obvious indicators of fraud. But, as I said, we both know that you're not serious about it. However, here are a bunch of links which will provide you with all of the specifics that you would need to research the issue, if you actually cared to:
14 Feb 2012 - Physicist Exposes Global Warming Hoax (http://epaabuse.com/5051/news/physicist-exposes-global-warming-hoax)
13 Feb 2012 - Shock Study Shows Himalayas And Nearby Peaks Have Lost No Ice Over The Last Decade (http://www.naturalnews.com/034940_Himalayan_ice_global_warming.html)[/FONT][/COLOR]
08 Feb 2012 - Another Green Prophet Defects (http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2012/02/another-green-prophet-defects.php)
23 Jan 2012 - An Educational Scare Tactic (http://www.onenewsnow.com/Education/Default.aspx?id=1519222)
13 Dec 2011 - UN Calls For 'International Climate Court Of Justice' (http://cowboybyte.com/2440/un-calls-for-eco-fascist-world-government-at-durban-summit) [More forcing of the Cult of Global Warming and its beliefs and false teachings upon everyone!]
28 Nov 2011 - Study Funded By National Science Foundation Concludes: 'Global Warming Rate Less Than Feared' (http://biggovernment.com/publius/2011/11/24/study-funded-by-national-science-foundation-concludes-global-warming-rate-less-than-feared)
25 Nov 2011 - Global Warming Hoax: ClimateGate II (http://www.globalwarminghoax.com/news.php?extend.140)
25 Nov 2011 - 'Green' Debacle: Tens Of Thousands Of Abandoned Wind Turbines Now Litter American Landscape (http://www.naturalnews.com/034234_wind_turbines_abandoned.html)
23 Nov 2011 - Climategate, Part Duh! (http://www.themoralliberal.com/2011/11/22/climategate-part-duh/http://www.themoralliberal.com/2011/11/22/climategate-part-duh)
22 Nov 2011 - Another Global Warming Intelligence Unit Created By Obama (http://www.newswithviews.com/NWV-News/news286.htm)
14 Nov 2011 - UN Chief Presses World Leaders To Come Up With $100B A Year For 'Green Climate Fund' (http://cnsnews.com/news/article/un-chief-presses-world-leaders-come-100b-year-green-climate-fund)[Wasting even more money to perpetrate the hoax]
11 Nov 2011 - Obama Loads CO2 Green House Gun On Power Plants (http://www.newswithviews.com/Roth/laurie292.htm)
10 Nov 2011 - How Pure Crapola Becomes Settled Science (http://www.newswithviews.com/Duigon/lee122.htm)
19 Oct 2011 - Global Warming Scam Perpetuated By Government, Industry, And Wall Street - And Taxpayers Have Been Footing The Bill! (http://www.naturalnews.com/033906_global_warming_skeptics.html)
10 Oct 2011 - Will Warmists Face Justice for their Deceptions? (http://americandaily.com/index.php/article/5030)
07 Oct 2011 - Al Gore Promoter Of Doomsday Cult? (http://www.newswithviews.com/Hughes/sharon171.htm)
07 Oct 2011 - The High Cost Of Environmental Extremism (http://www.newswithviews.com/Clausen/barry101.htm)
03 Oct 2011 - EPA Policy Based On 'Junk Science' (http://www.onenewsnow.com/Culture/Default.aspx?id=1449030)
30 Sep 2011 - Al Gore Doctored A Video That's Supposed To Prove His Global Warming Theories (http://dailycaller.com/2011/09/29/al-gore-doctored-a-video-thats-supposed-to-prove-his-global-warming-theories) [More proof as to how the False Prophet of the Global Warming Cult operates and just how desperate he is to make his nonsense and lies appear real]
29 Sep 2011 - Video Analysis And Scene Replication Suggests That Al Gore's Climate Reality Project Fabricated Their Climate 101 Video "Simple Experiment" : Researcher Says 20 Years Of Broadcast Experience Points To Use Of Video Tricks (http://wattsupwiththat.com/2011/09/28/video-analysis-and-scene-replication-suggests-that-al-gores-climate-reality-project-fabricated-their-climate-101-video-simple-experiment) [Has an embedded video on the web page]
27 Sep 2011 - Overestimating Global Warming? Scientists Say New Map Of Greenland Needs More Ice (http://cowboybyte.com/1003/overestimating-global-warming-scientists-say-new-map-of-greenland-needs-more-ice) [More proof as to how desperate those who belong to the Global Warming Cult are to attempt to prove what does not exist]
27 Sep 2011 - Greenland Unfrozen By Ideology: A Vortex Of Damaging Climate Science Controversy (http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=46463)
22 Sep 2011 - A Greener Greenland? Times Atlas 'Error' Overstates Global Warming (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2039262/Times-Atlas-error-exaggerates-ice-retreat-Greenland.html)
16 Sep 2011 - Nobel Laureate Resigns Over Global Warming Dogma (http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=46212)
13 Sep 2011 - Gore Turns Climate Rage Into 24-Hour Marathon: Plans Day-Long Presentation Aimed At Eradicating Disbelief In Disputed Theory (http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2011/09/12/inconvenient-day-al-gore-preps-24-hour-global-warming-broadcast) [No matter what the FALSE PROPHET of the Cult of Global Warming says or does, the fact remains that a HOAX is still a HOAX]
02 Sep 2011 - Gore's Latest Global-Warming Rhetoric 'Desperate,' 'Troubling' (http://www.onenewsnow.com/Culture/Default.aspx?id=1423588) [More nonsense from the false prophet of the Cult of Global Warming!]
19 Aug 2011 - Global Warming Fraud: Iconic Polar Bear On Melting Ice Cap A Hoax (http://www.naturalnews.com/033370_polar_bars_scientific_fraud.html)
12 Aug 2011 - Gore Realizing 'Global Warming' Is Floundering (http://www.onenewsnow.com/Culture/Default.aspx?id=1409620)
25 July 2011 - Why We Should Give The Cold Shoulder To A BBC Trust Review That Argues The Broadcaster Should Ignore Global-Warming 'Deniers' (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2018143/Steve-Jones-BBC-Trust-Review-global-warming-trusted.html) [The BBC is Not interested in truth, only in reporting upon what they want to]
25 July 2011 - Climate Change Sceptics Should Get Less BBC Coverage And Be Challenged 'More Vigorously', Says Report On Science Output (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2016299/Climate-change-sceptics-BBC-coverage-challenged-vigorously-corporation-body-rule.html) [More proof as to how bias the media is and how one-sided the news they report upon is]
20 July 2011 - The Warmers' CO2 Argument (http://www.onenewsnow.com/Culture/Default.aspx?id=1394166)
15 July 2011 - Climate Cops Blame Ozone For Illness (http://douglassreport.com/2011/07/15/climate-cops) [The climate kooks have launched another bizarre bid for attention -- this time claiming that global warming will cause millions of illnesses and cost billions of dollars]
12 July 2011 - Australian Children Are Being Terrified By Climate Change Lessons (http://www.news.com.au/national/australian-kids-are-living-in-climate-of-fear/story-e6frfkvr-1226091097398) [More insanity and scare tactics brought to you by the Global Warming Cult]
12 July 2011 - Global-Warming Hysteria Hits Australia With Carbon Tax (http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/07/10/us-australia-carbon-idUSTRE7690C520110710) [Even more greed and more of your money being stolen by the Cult of Global Warming]
08 July 2011 - Coal-Burning China's Rapid Growth May Have HALTED Global Warming (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2011297/Coal-burning-China-cools-planet.html) [More lies and nonsense from the Cult of Global Warming. Just a short while back there were saying that this was the cause of global warming, not they are saying it is halting it. Just another typical cult tactic, when things go opposite of what you say, just turn your theology and teachings around so they fit with what is happening!]
08 July 2011 - Global Warming? A New Ice Age? The Only Certainty Is That YOU'RE Paying For The Hysteria Of Our Politicians (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2011667/Global-warming-new-ice-age-YOURE-paying-politicians-hysteria.html) [More nonsense, stupidity, and greed. All they are after is to get all of your money and tell you how you should live your life!]

Odysseus
04-22-2012, 10:04 PM
08 July 2011 - Global Warning: Scientists In U-Turn As They Claim Extreme Weather And Climate Change Are Linked (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2010268/Global-warning-Scientists-claim-extreme-weather-climate-change-linked.html) [The Cult of Global Warming has now decided to blame every weather event on global warming (sorry climate change). I don't know about you, but I hadn't noticed any reluctance on their part not to blame every shower on climate change previously]
05 July 2011 - 'Climate Change Scam' Has Nothing To Do With Science (http://www.onenewsnow.com/Culture/Default.aspx?id=1383102)
23 June 2011 - Al Gore: Stabilize Population To Combat Global Warming (http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/greenspace/2011/06/al-gore-climate-change-population-contraception-fertility.html) [More INSANITY from the FALSE PROPHET of the GLOBAL WARMING CULT!]
21 June 2011 - Scientists Now Predict A New Little Ice Age Is Near (http://www.expertclick.com/NewsReleaseWire/Scientists_Now_Predict_a_new_Little_Ice_Age_is_Nea r,201136756.aspx) [More NONSENSE from the Cult that brought you global warming. I remember back in the late 1970'2 and early 1980's they were talking about an ice age by 1990. Obviously that never happened either. This just goes to prove what the Bible says in 1 Corinthians 3:19-20 (KJV): "For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness. And again, The Lord knoweth the thoughts of the wise, that they are vain."]
20 June 2011 - Head Of Oregon Global Warming Commission Shuts Down Question And Media (AGENDA 21) (http://www.patriotactionnetwork.com/video/video/show?id=2600775:Video:4303027&xgs=1&xg_source=msg_share_video)[Has an embedded video on the web page]
16 June 2011 - Global Warming Not To Blame For 2011 Droughts (http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg21028173.100-global-warming-not-to-blame-for-2011-droughts.html)
14 June 2011 - The New Religion Of Global Warming (http://www.esquire.com/blogs/politics/global-warming-religion-5912388)
13 June 2011 - UK: 'We Must Stop Pandering To Climate Scaremongers': Ex-Civil Service Chief Blasts Ministers For Global Warming 'Evangelism' (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2001189/Ministers-fall-climate-folly-warns-ex-Civil-Service-chief.html) [Global taxation (sorry warming)]
31 May 2011 - Stopping Global Warming Can Only Be Achieved By The Limitation Of Democracy! (http://www.patriotactionnetwork.com/forum/topic/show?id=2600775:Topic:3998858&xgs=1&xg_source=msg_share_topic) [More craziest from the Cult of Global Warming and its members!]
31 May 2011 - Global Warming Charlatans Feel The Heat (http://canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/37046)
9 Apr 2011 - Brainwashed Kid Travels The World Promoting The Global Warming Hoax (http://tomnelson.blogspot.com/2011/04/brainwashed-kid-travels-world-promoting.html)
25 Apr 2011 - Elementary "Earth Day" Indoctrination (http://patriotupdate.com/videos/elementary-earth-day-indoctrination) [Brainwashing of the young and innocent!] [Has an embedded video on the web page]
21 Apr 2011 - Global Warming Or Crucifixion Day? (http://www.christianpost.com/news/global-warming-or-crucifixion-day-49916)
18 Apr 2011 - EPA Official Says Jobs Don't Matter (http://patriotupdate.com/5695/epa-official-says-jobs-dont-matter) [Has an embedded video on the web page]
18 Apr 2011 - Your Money's Gone With The Wind (And Solar) (http://patriotupdate.com/5682/your-moneys-gone-with-the-wind-and-solar)
12 Apr 2011 - Simple Exercises To Promote Healthy Neck Muscles And Ligaments (http://drbenkim.com/neck-exercises-neck-pain.htm)
04 Apr 2011 - Obama's Limo Exempt From New 'Green' Policy (http://patriotupdate.com/5022/obamas-limo-exempt-from-new-green-policy)
30 Mar 2011 - Got Problems? Blame Global Warming (http://blogs.forbes.com/larrybell/2011/03/29/got-problems-blame-global-warming)
29 Mar 2011 - The Global Warming Fleecing Of American Taxpayers (http://www.themoralliberal.com/2010/08/05/the-global-warming-fleecing-of-american-taxpayers)
29 Mar 2011 - How Hot Is The Core Of The Earth? (http://www.patriotactionnetwork.com/video/video/show?id=2600775:Video:3562609&xgs=1&xg_source=msg_share_video) [Has an embedded video on the web page]
24 Mar 2011 - EPA Wrong To View Science As Settled (http://www.nj.com/gloucester/voices/index.ssf/2011/03/epa_wrong_to_use_science_as_se.html)
15 Mar 2011 - INSANITY: 'Green' Price Tag: $700 Trillion To Drop Earth's Temp 1 Degree: Even EPA Admits Cost Of Regulating Greenhouse Gases 'Absurd' (http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=275109)
14 Mar 2011 - Once Again, Mum Nature Has Her Way! (http://canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/34342)
09 Mar 2011 - Inhofe: Obama Trying To Kill Oil And Gas, Force Green (http://www.newsmax.com/InsideCover/inhofe-obama-oil-gas/2011/03/08/id/388782)
28 Feb 2011 - OU Professor Says Stormy Winter Nothing To Do With Global Warming Has (http://www.dailytribune.com/articles/2011/02/26/news/doc4d693af793d10957612090.txt)
22 Feb 2011 - NOAA Says Al Gore's Claim About Snow And Global Warming Is NONSENSE (http://yidwithlid.blogspot.com/2011/02/noaa-says-al-gores-claim-about-snow-and.html) [More proof that this doomsday prophet and his cult are totally false!]
17 Feb 2011 - The Nazi Origins Of Apocalyptic Global Warming Theory (http://patriotupdate.com/3153/the-nazi-origins-of-apocalyptic-global-warming-theory)
10 Feb 2011 - Al Gore's Incredibly Shrinking Credibility (http://canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/33110)
08 Feb 2011 - Blow To 'Global Warming' - Study: Many Himalayan Glaciers Are Growing Or Stable (http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/another-blow-to-global-warming-many-himalayan-glaciers-are-growing-or-stabl) [And this is after the Cult of Global Warming has been going on and on about how the glaciers there are shrinking. More proof that they are nothing but a cult of lies!]
07 Feb 2011 'Pulling The Plug' On Green Subsidies (http://www.onenewsnow.com/Culture/Default.aspx?id=1288748)
04 Feb 2011 - Gore's Unending Blizzard Of Lies (http://www.investors.com/NewsAndAnalysis/Article/561975/201102031827/Gores-Unending-Blizzard-Of-Lies.htm)
04 Feb 2011 - How Climate Sanity Has Been Gored (http://blogs.forbes.com/larrybell/2011/02/03/how-climate-sanity-has-been-gored)
02 Feb 2011 - Snow, Freezing Rain Cancel Flights, Trains, School Across U.S. (http://www.newsmax.com/US/ALLTOP-AMERICAME-ARTOPSTG-ASENERGY/2011/02/02/id/384694) [So how long until the Global Warming Cult and its false prophet Al Gore come up with some hocus pocus nonsense about global warming causing this?]
02 Feb 2011 - Global Warming Skepticism Reaches White House (http://www.onenewsnow.com/Culture/Default.aspx?id=1286388)
31 Jan 2011 - Another IPCC Global Warming Hoax Exposed---Glaciers GROWING In Himalayas, Not Melting! (http://daveinboca.blogspot.com/2011/01/another-ipcc-global-warming-hoax.html)
18 Jan 2011 - The Great 'Climate Change' 2011 Taxpayer Rip-Off (http://axcessnews.com/index.php/articles/show/id/21366)
18 Jan 2011 - UN Subterfuge...The Global Warming Hoax (http://drleonardcoldwell.com/2011/01/17/un-subterfuge…the-global-warming-hoax)
13 Jan 2011 - 49 Of 50 U.S. States Have Snow (http://www.gadling.com/2011/01/13/49-of-50-u-s-states-have-snow) [Hey Al Gore, How do you and your Cult of Global Warming explain this? This goes completely against your false teachings and theology! More proof that you are just another false prophet spouting lies!]
06 Jan 2011 - More Harsh Winter Weather On The Way (http://www.aolnews.com/2011/01/06/more-harsh-winter-weather-on-the-way) [So what happened to the global warming? This weather goes completely against the theological teachings of the Cult of Global Warming and its false prophet Al Gore]
06 Jan 2011 - ENGLAND: Why The Met Office Didn't Dare Tell Us It Was Getting Cold (http://www.express.co.uk/ourcomments/view/221363) [The Met Office, being slaves to global warming computer models, seems that the results given to them for long term forecasts are wrong every time!]


The response to large scale climate change may indeed involve greater government intervention in the economy, but that doesn't make it a hoax. The government and certain special interests may even be intentionally exploiting the climate change phenomenon for financial gain, but that doesn't make it a hoax.

No, it's a hoax on its own. The response, greater government control of the economy, is the goal. If the people who claimed that it was a danger were serious, then the Kyoto accords would have been adopted by the countries that tried to foist it on us. For that matter, the Kyoto Accords wouldn't have exempted the single greatest polluter, China, from any constraints on emissions. Instead, Kyoto simply mandated transfers of money from productive economies to unproductive ones, a global redistribution of wealth, that had no effect on emissions, or anything else. It's purpose was to enrich despots and their agents at multinational organizations, not to curb any greenhouse gases.

Odysseus
04-22-2012, 10:07 PM
It may even, as you claim, be a platform to launch attacks on the Republican party for political reasons, but again, this doesn't mean it's a hoax.


Except that it is a platform to launch attacks on political opponents, but it isn't a platform that requires real action on the part of the attackers. If the advocates of AGW were serious, they would be taking steps to curb their own carbon footprints in order to set an example, or fighting for renewable energy in their own lives, but they don't. Al Gore and Nancy Pelosi racked up hundreds of thousands of miles in personal jets, and the various environmentalists who won't allow wind farms or solar collectors near their properties is legion.



Just because something can be exploited by certain groups for financial or political gain doesn't necessarily mean that those groups are fabricating it, or that it is a "hoax".


Yeah, but since the fabrication has been well-documented, that's pretty much the definition of a hoax.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_opinion_on_climate_change




This consensus is shared by American groups as well as international groups of scientists.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_warming_controversy


While I certainly can agree with you that there may be financial and/or political motivations behind the people who respond to the global warming issue, I don't see how that discredits the science. Can you see how just as there are people who look to gain financially and politically from the global warming issue, there are also people and groups who look to gain financially and politically from denying the issue?


That's the AGW advocate line, but there's a difference between trying to protect your property from a hoax and trying to steal it through a hoax. The two positions are not morally equivalent, and the people whose livelyhoods are being destroyed by political chicanery and fraud are the victims of the lie.

Retread
04-22-2012, 10:35 PM
ICE HOUSE or HOT HOUSE?

During the last 2 billion years the Earth's climate has alternated between a frigid "Ice House", like today's world, and a steaming "Hot House", like the world of the dinosaurs.

This chart shows how global climate has changed through time.

http://www.scotese.com/images/globaltemp.jpg

IOW - baby it's cold outside.

While some folks are really using this scare to line their own pockets (owlboring) and others are trying to redistribute the wealth, I'm really more in the camp of believing most are "http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cy4gRGic11k"

The "climate scientists" are looking at far too short of a record to determine anything. Chris has looked at 2 Billion (thats billion with a b) years of records.

m00
04-23-2012, 02:58 AM
What is your evidence for it being a hoax or a scam?

Let me stop you there. I come from a very traditionalist school of scientific and logic thought which is that everything is presumed false until proven otherwise. I could go off on a tangent on how a whole generation of scientists weaned on string theory has completely destroyed the concept of observation & evidence, but this is for another time.

The central question of all this is the following: is global warming true or false. But this is too vague, and really there are several questions we must examine:


Is Climate Change occurring to a degree that impacts our daily lives?
Is Climate Change occurring to a degree that is detrimental to the survival of our species?
If Climate Change is occurring, is the climate trending to warmer, colder, or simply more variable?
If Climate Change is occurring, is it man-made or a natural phenomena?
Regardless of whether it is man made or not, if climate change is detrimental, is there anything we can to do stop the change?
If Climate Change is occurring and detrimental, and there is nothing we can do to stop the change, what should our path forward be?


Here are the answers I have observed: 1) probably 2) possibly, but to what degree is unknown 3) unknown 4) partially, but these things come in cycles -- the notion of "static climate on earth" is a complete myth. I'm sure it's changing on it's own, but we likely have some impact. Unknown how much our impact matters. 5) unknown 6) unknown

The global warming "scare" as it were relies on the intersection of four things: Global climate change is occurring AND the trend is warming AND it is a man-made phenomena AND it is preventable. At best, the evidence only really points to the first clause probably being true.


While I certainly can agree with you that there may be financial and/or political motivations behind the people who respond to the global warming issue, I don't see how that discredits the science.

Do you trust the results from scientists that have worked for tobacco companies in the past which have indicated there is no direct link between between smoking and cancer? Because as you say, financial and political motivations don't discredit science...


Can you see how just as there are people who look to gain financially and politically from the global warming issue, there are also people and groups who look to gain financially and politically from denying the issue?

Sure. The difference is the people who financially and politically gain from denying the issue happen to be on the right side of the scientific method, which holds that conjectures are assumed false until proven otherwise.

What really annoys me is that global climate change is certainly within the realm of possibility. It certainly could be true that we are impacting our environment in globally negative ways. In fact, I would really like to know the answer to that. Then I'd like to know what we can do about. Unfortunately, we have scientists from two lobbying groups with economic incentives to pick and choose evidence to make the case for one way or the other.

And before you say "better safe than sorry" the sad fact is that regulating our carbon footprint has a real human cost to it. It's easy when you are a wealthy westerner to be "carbon neutral." If third world countries had to maintain carbon neutrality they would be starvation and poverty greater than there is now. During the Industrial Revolution, a lot of carbon was pumped into the atmosphere comparatively speaking to indigenous human life. But that Industrial Revolution is what now affords the western world the ability to be climate-conscious. We've built our infrastructure.

So if global warming was man made, and it is going to kill us all... then we're going to have to bite the bullet and make the hard call that a lot of the third world will have to experience extreme poverty, famine, disease, death. Hospitals run on electricity. Refrigerators to ship foods and medicine require electricity. Sanitation and clean water... these things take energy, And energy isn't cheap... unless you use commonly found commodities such coal, or oil. And it won't be a walk in the park for us... I currently enjoy a standard of living because I'm not paying the very high price of a carbon neutral market. I'm not a 1%er, but I do pretty well.

So I'm willing to accept a global depression and massive reduction of standard of living if global climate change really and genuinely is this man made thing that's going to kill us all, unless we take specific measures to prevent it. But excuse me if I ask for a bit more evidence than a powerpoint by Al Gore, and scientific studies to determine the likelihood of a problem run by people trying to sell us the "solutions."

On edit: if you are actually interested, I can explain to you how I know the left isn't serious about this issue... but I'm watching game of thrones now. :)

SarasotaRepub
04-23-2012, 07:28 AM
As far as the Global Warming side goes, all these idiots care about is their precious Grant money to keep their gravy train going. And the AGW people really think they picked a "winner" with AlGore??? Jesus Christ, please.

That robotic goof is a total joke. I've been wondering why he hasn't issued some kind of GW Challenge!!! A Debate to The Death Match or something. After all, he has all the "facts" on his side, right??? He couldn't be wrong, right??? So why does he ignore people and scientists that disagee??? Why doesn't he have a series of debates and "prove" these stupid people wrong???

Personally, I think he knows he'd get his ass handed to him. But how can this be??? He's AlGore!!! Dr. Climate!!

http://commieblaster.com/images/gore/Al_Gore_sucker.jpg

He has vast resources at his finger tips!!!!!

http://dilettanteville.files.wordpress.com/2007/05/gore_desk.jpg

How could he be incorrect???? :rolleyes:

JB
04-23-2012, 01:25 PM
How could he be incorrect?That looks like CU on the monitor on the right!!

Retread
04-23-2012, 05:39 PM
owlboring has repeatedly refused to even appear on the same stage as any of the degreed personnel who happen to disagree with his statements re: AGW.

Addressing other points opined above: See Scotese (http://www.scotese.com/) as I said before, climate has been changing for over 2 billion years. Guess what? It will continue to change for another 2 billion if the sun doesn't go nova first.

It's all about the grants and gifts that the few (according to research less than 2 dozen) members of the IPCC who support AGW and write the reports are receiving.

The hockey stick graph would look exactly the same if it was feed a complete set of random numbers. The character is all in the massaging of the data. As a friend of mine once observed "the data will admit to anything if tortured long enough."

Far too many folks are trying to cast pollution and AGW in the same shtick. They are separate entities and should be regarded separately. Pollution has been getting better in this country for at least 30 plus years. Check out the LA smog numbers over the last 3 decades.

IMHO humanity is still far too prone to pollute but will never, under current technology, do anything that will change the climate for over a half mile diameter per event. (Concrete parking lots)

--------------------------------------

Thanks for the links Ody. You had quite a few there I had missed.

Constitutionally Speaking
04-23-2012, 07:38 PM
What is your evidence for it being a hoax or a scam?




Well, for ONE thing, the earth is COOLER now than it was in Medieval times.

Zeus
04-23-2012, 10:48 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=CZ-4gnNz0vc

Wei Wu Wei
04-24-2012, 11:25 AM
If I thought that you were really serious about being informed on this issue, I'd gladly engage in discussion, but we both know that you aren't. You know as well as anyone that there had been no warming for over a decade, that the hockey stick model has been proven to be a fabrication, that the various advocates of AGW have been hard at work destroying evidence and refusing to permit independent analysis of their data, that the models that predict warming fail when used to demonstrate current conditions and a host of other obvious indicators of fraud. But, as I said, we both know that you're not serious about it. However, here are a bunch of links which will provide you with all of the specifics that you would need to research the issue, if you actually cared to:

"links" is not a credible source, but I'll look at these. It seems as I go through these that not a single one is a scientific paper, a peer-reviewed journal, or anything of the sort. In fact, about half of these look like right-wing blogs.

If your criteria for valid information is google searches that bring up a bunch of results, then you must be the biggest believer in penis-enlarging pills.


[INDENT]14 Feb 2012 - Physicist Exposes Global Warming Hoax (http://epaabuse.com/5051/news/physicist-exposes-global-warming-hoax)[/quote]

The scientist here, Dr. Gordon Fulks works for the Cascade Policy Institute.

http://cascadepolicy.org/more/about/academic-advisors/

This organization, while "officially" non-partisian, is openly political in it's alignment with "free market" and "small government" causes. This is not a peer-reviewed journal or anything like it.





13 Feb 2012 - Shock Study Shows Himalayas And Nearby Peaks Have Lost No Ice Over The Last Decade (http://www.naturalnews.com/034940_Himalayan_ice_global_warming.html)[/FONT][/COLOR]

If you dig a little further into the study, you'll see that they use different means of measuring ice loss and conclude that there has been less ice loss than previously estimated. However, they also state that the sea levels are rising, and that the increasing temperatures may have something to do with that, but that the added water from melting ice is probably not as big of a contributer.

An interesting article I'm sure, but it doesn't disprove the science or contradict the overwhelming majority of thousands of scientists who agree.

This is like a biological study examining that mutations are expressed in a different way than previously understood. That doesn't disprove evolution.



08 Feb 2012 - Another Green Prophet Defects (http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2012/02/another-green-prophet-defects.php)

This is a blog post about someone promoting a book. If you want to talk about conflicts of interests, book promotion is a red flag. That doesn't necessarily mean their claims are false, but more details here would be appreciated.



23 Jan 2012 - An Educational Scare Tactic (http://www.onenewsnow.com/Education/Default.aspx?id=1519222)

Okay there's nothing in here about the science at all, it's an article about what is being taught in school.

This is scopes monkey trial all over again.



13 Dec 2011 - UN Calls For 'International Climate Court Of Justice' (http://cowboybyte.com/2440/un-calls-for-eco-fascist-world-government-at-durban-summit) [More forcing of the Cult of Global Warming and its beliefs and false teachings upon everyone!]

Again there is nothing in here about the science at all. No evidence that it is a hoax.

This is more about your claim that the global warming issue is being used for improper means through other improper means. That may or may not be so, but what I was talking about was evidence that global warming is a hoax.



28 Nov 2011 - Study Funded By National Science Foundation Concludes: 'Global Warming Rate Less Than Feared' (http://biggovernment.com/publius/2011/11/24/study-funded-by-national-science-foundation-concludes-global-warming-rate-less-than-feared)

Link is broken.


25 Nov 2011 - Global Warming Hoax: ClimateGate II (http://www.globalwarminghoax.com/news.php?extend.140)

Okay so let's take a moment to discuss what happened with "Climategate"

After the climategate story broke (which Fox ran with on a continuous cycle for weeks and months), a self-described "climate skeptic" decided that because it seemed the data was faulty, he would lead his own study to examine the underpinnings of the the global warming theory. He launched an investigation to examine temperature trends and got wide support from other global warming skeptics.

His project even got $150,000 of funding from the Koch brothers. and what happened?....

"So what are the end results? Muller’s team appears to have confirmed the basic tenets of climate science. Back in March, Muller told the House Science and Technology Committee that, contrary to what he expected, the existing temperature data was “excellent.” He went on: “We see a global warming trend that is very similar to that previously reported by the other groups.” And, today, the BEST team has released a flurry of new papers that confirm that the planet is getting hotter. As the team’s two-page summary flatly concludes, “Global warming is real.”Here’s a chart comparing their findings with existing data: "

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/post/a-skeptical-physicist-ends-up-confirming-climate-data/2011/10/20/gIQA6viC1L_blog.html

Late night comedians had fun with this story:
http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-october-26-2011/weathering-fights

As you can see, despite the obsession the cable news had over climategate, there was almost no coverage of this subsequent study.

So let's look at this new batch of condemning emails. The question we need to ask is, "does a handful of email containing implications that bad data is being used in scientific discourse discredit the overall trend of research done by thousands of scientists all over the world?"

According to the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, it does not.

"That shouldn’t be so jaw-dropping. Previous analyses — like this one from the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration — have responded to Watts’ concerns by showing that a few flawed stations don’t warp the overall trend. "

The study done by NOAA shows that having some flawed data at some of the 1221 stations in their network alone does not disrupt the overall trend. Take into account scientists and stations all over the world, and you have something that a few emails don't discredit.

Do scientists sometimes try to portray their data in ways that is more favorable to their desired results, or even go as far as to fudge numbers? Yes, it's unfortunate but it does happen. However, when you have literally thousands of scientists working independently for different organizations in different countries all over the world, it tends to minimize the effects of those few bad apples.

The only way this is damning of the entire global warming theory is if you truly believe in a paranoiac conspiracy theory that 95% of the scientists in the world working on this have all gotten together to trick the world for a mass power grab.





25 Nov 2011 - 'Green' Debacle: Tens Of Thousands Of Abandoned Wind Turbines Now Litter American Landscape (http://www.naturalnews.com/034234_wind_turbines_abandoned.html)

Okay some wind turbines have been abandoned this has nothing to do with evidence of global warming being untrue. The lack of focus here is making me wonder if this enormous wall of links is a lazy copy-paste.



23 Nov 2011 - Climategate, Part Duh! (http://www.themoralliberal.com/2011/11/22/climategate-part-duh/http://www.themoralliberal.com/2011/11/22/climategate-part-duh)

A poorly written blog post with bad arguments that even a high schooler can debunk:

"What emissions? Carbon dioxide? A trace gas in the atmosphere (0.038%) that has no effect whatever on climate or weather?"

Carbon Dioxide has no effect on climate or weather? Tell that to Venus.

"Bear in mind, that tree and all others depend on carbon dioxide in the same way humans and other creatures depend on oxygen! CO2 is vital to the growth of all vegetation on Earth. Without it, we all die."

Wow. I love this one. The "CO2 is necessary so why is everyone complaining about it?" That's like a person eating a pound of salt every day and arguing "but Sodium is necessary for your body to function, dumbass!"

Wei Wu Wei
04-24-2012, 11:26 AM
22 Nov 2011 - Another Global Warming Intelligence Unit Created By Obama (http://www.newswithviews.com/NWV-News/news286.htm)

This is about President Obama, there's no scientific evidence against global warming.



14 Nov 2011 - UN Chief Presses World Leaders To Come Up With $100B A Year For 'Green Climate Fund' (http://cnsnews.com/news/article/un-chief-presses-world-leaders-come-100b-year-green-climate-fund)[Wasting even more money to perpetrate the hoax]

About money, not about evidence against global warming.


11 Nov 2011 - Obama Loads CO2 Green House Gun On Power Plants (http://www.newswithviews.com/Roth/laurie292.htm)

This is yet another article about Obama with no scientific evidence against global warming.

For someone who loves criticizing the source material of information, it's ironic that you are using blogs and articles that begin with "We already know Obama has an obsession with destroying the US economy and taking our country down several sizes." to make points.



10 Nov 2011 - How Pure Crapola Becomes Settled Science (http://www.newswithviews.com/Duigon/lee122.htm)

More blog posts. This is just getting funny now.

This is an article that is critical of the Theory of Evolution:

"Thanks to Science we have learned to believe in some of the most preposterous and malignant notions ever dreamed up in this poor, sin-laden world. We believe, for instance, in Evolution, or in Man-made Global Warming—because we are told, over and over and over again, that we must believe in it."

"Dodge the tricky stuff! How often have you seen some poor Darwinian be made to look foolish because he can’t explain the origin of life"

Come on Ody.....








Okay I'm about halfway through with your first post, but most of these have been silly blog posts, far-right "news" rags, or articles that are totally irrelevant to the scientific evidence for or against global warming.

You've even got blatantly anti-science evolution deniers on your roll here.

I'll continue looking through this a little later, so far not so good though.

Rockntractor
04-24-2012, 05:46 PM
http://pjmedia.com/jchristianadams/2012/04/21/john-mccain-the-2008-election-and-civil-unrest/
You've even got blatantly anti-science evolution deniers on your roll here.

I'll continue looking through this a little later, so far not so good though.

Smoke some more of your hallucinogenic carbon and then come back and tell us more of your pipe dreams.http://www.smiley-lol.com/smiley/exagerent/fumeur/narguile-2.gif

Retread
04-24-2012, 05:51 PM
Blah, blah, blah.....


Read Scotese (http://www.scotese.com/) and refute him.
Look at his temp chart (http://www.scotese.com/climate.htm) and refute that.

Edit: Opps - forgot one. Investigate the little ice age and the Medieval Warm Period and refute them. Wiki not allowed. refute the technical papers showing both of these to be fact.

It ain't that the climate is not changing, it's the supposed (mann) made part that is a downright falsehood and it's all about the cash.

I do not believe you would know a peer-reviewed site if it jumped up and bit you on the butt. I am and have been a scientist all of my 70 years and know a made up story when I see it. There are plenty of peer-reviewed sites and papers out there but the climate elite will not address those but will do as you have - beat on the blogs.
I won't waste my time beating on the pro AGW blogs as they have drank so much of the koolaid as to have set their two brain cells in stone.

Rockntractor
04-25-2012, 12:28 PM
What is your evidence for it being a hoax or a scam?



Here is one for you Wieb.
http://www.conservativeunderground.com/forum505/showthread.php?48857-Gaia-author-James-Lovelock-recants-on-global-warming

Adam Wood
04-25-2012, 03:26 PM
Everyone come look at all of the damage wrought by global war .... err, global cool .... ummm ... climate change (http://www.numberwatch.co.uk/warmlist.htm).

Odysseus
04-25-2012, 05:23 PM
"links" is not a credible source, but I'll look at these. It seems as I go through these that not a single one is a scientific paper, a peer-reviewed journal, or anything of the sort. In fact, about half of these look like right-wing blogs.

If your criteria for valid information is google searches that bring up a bunch of results, then you must be the biggest believer in penis-enlarging pills.

I'm sorry, but aren't you the guy who linked to a bunch of MediaMatters stories to "prove" that Fox News fabricated news?

Okay, here's why I think that Global Warming is a hoax:

Climategate and other Fraudulent activities: Unlike your fictionalized account, the truth is that the CRU e-mails exposed massive fraud. These fraudulent activities included:

1. Manipulating data to get preferred results. For example, in one extremely well-documented Climategate e-mail (http://www.conservativeunderground.com/E-mail) dated November 1999, CRU chief P.D. Jones wrote:

"I've just completed Mike's Nature trick of adding in the real temps to each series for the last 20 years (ie from 1981 onwards) amd from 1961 for Keith's to hide the decline."
Hiding the decline in temperatures was fraudulent. Here are peer-reviewed journals that discuss this at length:

Corrections To The Mann et. al. (1998) Proxy Data Base And Northern Hemispheric Average Temperature Series (http://climateaudit.files.wordpress.com/2005/09/mcintyre.mckitrick.2003.pdf) by Stephen McIntyre and Ross McKitrick, Energy & Enviornment volume 14, 2003.
The Decay of the Hockey Stick by Von Storch (http://blogs.nature.com/climatefeedback/2007/05/the_decay_of_the_hockey_stick.html) published on the journal Nature's blog, May 3, 2007.
A Global Warming Bombshell (http://www.technologyreview.com/Energy/13830/) by Richard A. Muller, Technology Review , Oct. 2004; calls into question famous graph by Michael Mann.
Reconstructing Past Climate from Noisy Data (http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/306/5696/679) by Hans von Storch, Eduardo Zorita, Julie M. Jones, Yegor Dimitriev, Fidel González-Rouco, Simon F. B. Tett, Science magazine, 22 October 2004.
The ‘hockey stick’ and the 1990s: a statistical perspective on reconstructing hemispheric temperatures (http://www.image.ucar.edu/~boli/manuscripts/2007-LNA-TeA.pdf) by Bo Li, Douglas W. Nychka and Casper M. Ammann, Institute for Mathmatics Applied to Geosciences; (Manuscript received 22 March 2007; in final form 28 June 2007).
Ice Core Data Show No Carbon Dioxide Increase (http://www.21stcenturysciencetech.com/2006_articles/IceCoreSprg97.pdf) by Zbigniew Jaworowski, Ph.D., Spring 1997; this article examines one of the main pillars of the global warming thesis.
The M&M Critique of the MBH98 Northern Hemisphere Climate Index: Update and Implications (http://climateaudit.files.wordpress.com/2005/09/mcintyre.ee.2005.pdf) (Energy & Environment, vol. 16, no. 1, pp. 69-100, January 2005) - Stephen McIntyre, Ross McKitrick Hockey sticks, principal components, and spurious significance (http://climateaudit.files.wordpress.com/2005/09/mcintyre.grl.2005.pdf) (Geophysical Research Letters, vol. 32, February 2005) - Stephen McIntyre, Ross McKitrick

2. Scientists subverted the scientific peer review process to ensure that skeptical papers had no access to publication. One example: In 2003, Tom Wigley of the University Corporation for Atmospheric Research in Boulder, Colorado, complained that paleoclimatologist and Climate Research editor Hans von Storch was responsible for “the publication of crap science ‘in order to stimulate debate’” and that they “must get rid of von Storch” as an editor of the journal Climate Research, and forced his resignation. That isn't science, it's thuggery.

3. The CRU scientists worked to stonewall inquiries as to their methods and data and violated the Freedom of Information laws of the United Kingdom. They destroyed data, conspired to delete e-mails referencing data and otherwise hid information from other researchers, investigators and oversight agencies.

4. Wikipedia: An obscure scientist took it upon himself to slant Wikipedia's coverage of Global Warming (http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/12/19/wikibullies-at-work-the-national-post-exposes-broad-trust-issues-over-wikipedia-climate-information/). He did this through his position as an administrator at the site:


All told, Connolley created or rewrote 5,428 unique Wikipedia articles. His control over Wikipedia was greater still, however, through the role he obtained at Wikipedia as a website administrator, which allowed him to act with virtual impunity. When Connolley didn’t like the subject of a certain article, he removed it — more than 500 articles of various descriptions disappeared at his hand. When he disapproved of the arguments that others were making, he often had them barred — over 2,000 Wikipedia contributors who ran afoul of him found themselves blocked from making further contributions. Acolytes whose writing conformed to Connolley’s global warming views, in contrast, were rewarded with Wikipedia’s blessings. In these ways, Connolley turned Wikipedia into the missionary wing of the global warming movement.

The Medieval Warm Period disappeared, as did criticism of the global warming orthodoxy. With the release of the Climategate Emails, the disappearing trick has been exposed. The glorious Medieval Warm Period will remain in the history books, perhaps with an asterisk to describe how a band of zealots once tried to make it disappear.
Rather Orwellian, that.

There has been no warming: As the Climategate eomails show, there has been a decline in global temperatures since the mid-1990s. The chart below shows the global temperatures for the past 3,000 years. Note that we are currently at the average temperature:

http://www.oism.org/pproject/Slides/Presentation/Slide1.png

Also note that the current warming period significantly predates our current carbon-usage significantly. See below:

http://www.oism.org/pproject/Slides/Presentation/Slide2.png

The "consensus" doesn't exist. The media claims that there is consensus about AGW, and that the science is settled. However, this is false. After Kyoto, for example, over 31,000 scientists signed a petition opposing ratification at http://www.petitionproject.org/. As far back as 1992, a Gallup Poll of climate scientists in the American Meteorological Society and in the American Geophysical Union showed not only was there not a consensus in favor of AGW, but that the vast majority were highly skeptical as to any Anthropogenic Global Warming. The survey found that 49% stated that there was none, 18% thought some has occurred and 33% didn't know. However, since then, the media and politicians have sounded a drumbeat in favor of consensus, and as we have seen with CRU, there has been an active movement to attack those who disagree with it through removal from editorial or other positions, denial of grants and manipulation of the process.

In other words, Global Warming is the latest fad among the new Lysenkos, but it's far more lucrative than manipulating grain stocks for Stalin.