PDA

View Full Version : France elects first socialist president in 2 decades



Wibbins
05-06-2012, 02:44 PM
http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/05/06/french-election-results-2012/

Looks like France wants to show the world how bad socialism really is.


Hollande has said he will move quickly to implement his traditionally Socialist tax-and-spend program, which calls for boosting taxes on the rich, increasing state spending and hiring some 60,000 teachers.

Do not think for a second that "right wing" in Europe is the same as American Right Wing. In France, Sarkozy was going to raise taxes at the end of the year to encourage spending earlier, in America the RW would have cut taxes NOW and encouraged spending AFTER the cuts.


Remember, Fascism is considered right wing in Europe, being right of extreme left [see: commies, socialists etc.] IS STILL LEFT OF CENTER. Nazi party was the Nationalsozialismus or national socialism


I really hope that this Hollande guy completely destroys his country, but of course with the media sucking the leftists off they will spin it as "LOOK, LOOK FRANCE HAS RECOVERED FASTER SOCIALISM WORKS" completely ignoring the fact that the citizens are being taxed for everything they make and are dependent on the government for food.

AmPat
05-06-2012, 03:42 PM
I´m reminded of a famous American philosopher;

¨Stupid is as stupid does.¨
http://i47.tinypic.com/2pt9en4.jpg

Novaheart
05-06-2012, 03:44 PM
The only important question is whether France will secure its border and population and deport Islam, or if France will fall from within.

Odysseus
05-06-2012, 03:54 PM
This pretty much destroys the Euro. France and Germany were the only things keeping the Euro stable. France's debt is already over 80% of GDP, which doesn't give the Socialists much room to maneuver before they end up overwhelming their economy. To put it another way, who will bail out Greece, Italy, Ireland, Portugal and Spain when France's economy goes into recession and collapse?

I suppose that the voters of France took some guidance from the voters of California, who also voted to run full speed into the iceberg.

JB
05-06-2012, 05:10 PM
Bye France.

I hope your wine industry can survive though.

Rockntractor
05-06-2012, 05:46 PM
Bye France.

I hope your wine industry can survive though.

Not if the Muzzies take them over.

Apocalypse
05-06-2012, 07:54 PM
Bye France.

I hope your wine industry can survive though.

I doubt it.

Lets look at what Hollande is promising.

A 75-percent income tax on the rich. I'm willing to bet the owners of those industries are considered "Rich". You will see a fleeing of the wealthy from France. And with them, the jobs they created. So it breaks down to a 75% tax on any one making 1m euros ($1.3m) and up. Then a new 45% tax band on people with annual incomes above 150,000 euros ($200k).

Gay marriage/adoption. In France I doubt this will be noticed.

Lowering retirement age. This is in part of what got Greece into their mess. His plan is this. Work 41 years, and you can retire with full Gov. Bens. So some one starting work at say 18 could retire at the age of 61. Keep in mind, life span in France is roughly 80.

Contrat de génération This one is kinda interesting yet insane for his tax plan. How it works is if a company has an older worker. And they hire a younger one, under 20. That company under Contrat de génération then can opt for a few years of paying no taxes. The thought it the older worker will pass his knowledge onto the younger thus he's in a form of "Apprenticeship". Who wants to bet the majority of Francies industries will be paying zero taxes with this.

Renegotiate European treaty Basically, throw it out and spend baby spend. The current treaty prevents France from acquiring new debt, that they must get their spending back in line. Getting rid of it will allow Hollande to do as Obama does. Spend France into a deep hole to get out of Debt.

Vote for non-citizens Illegals power to vote in local elections only.

Implement a financial transactions tax. Basically. Go to your bank, write a check, make a withdraw - any thing. And be taxed for it. And best part. All taxes from it will go to "developing countries". France will see none of it.

Ban stock options and management bonuses. If your a CEO or employee of a corp. that offers stock options or bonuses as part of working for your workplace. Under Hollande's plan it is now illegal to offer these.

SarasotaRepub
05-06-2012, 08:02 PM
Holy Shit.

Oh well, I never wanted to go there anyway. Too many old buildings...:biggrin-new:

Rockntractor
05-06-2012, 08:23 PM
It should really be reworded to most socialist president in two decades.

Articulate_Ape
05-06-2012, 09:32 PM
Old Europe is doomed.

Apocalypse
05-06-2012, 10:56 PM
Old Europe is doomed.

So it new Europe. News today Greece just voted out their leaders. Many of the new faces are anti-bailout members. This means any chance for Greece, just went poof.

Greece is going to fall. Spain will begin the slide. Italy is going. France will start the others off hard as they race for the bottom. Germany is going to have no choice but to tell the others, tough luck and save them selves.

All this is going to lead to massive roits throughout Europe. Followed up by existing social problems (Islam). And could lead to war as some decide its an all or nothing situation.

SaintLouieWoman
05-06-2012, 11:37 PM
What I don't understand is how no one seems to be saying the obvious---the new leader of France is a self-proclaimed socialist. Our current leader basically has the same policies, yet very few dare say that the emperor has no clothes---that our pres has socialist policies.

I hope the voters in the US in 2012 have more sense than the French and Greek voters, otherwise we're all doomed.

Novaheart
05-07-2012, 12:06 AM
Old Europe is doomed.

I don't think so. I think the backlash to this and the illegal immigration is that a public perception will rise that Hitler was not wrong, he simply had some wrong ideas and methods. It's a little scary.

Take the Nazi and the antisemitism out, and I think you'll find grip in the "pan-Aryan" world.

wiki:

In terms of neo-Nazism, the Fourth Reich is envisioned as featuring Aryan supremacy, anti-Semitism, Lebensraum, aggressive militarism and totalitarianism. Upon the establishment of the Fourth Reich, German neo-Nazis propose that Germany should acquire nuclear weapons and use the threat of their use to re-expand to Germany's former boundaries as of 1937. [1]

Subsequently, many neo-Nazis came to believe, based on pamphlets published by David Myatt in the early 1990s, that the rise of the Fourth Reich in Germany would pave the way for the establishment of the Western Imperium, a pan-Aryan world empire encompassing all land populated by predominantly European-descended peoples (i.e., Europe, Russia, Anglo-America, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, Southern South America, and other significantly white countries in Latin America).[2]

[edit]

Novaheart
05-07-2012, 12:07 AM
What I don't understand is how no one seems to be saying the obvious---the new leader of France is a self-proclaimed socialist. Our current leader basically has the same policies, yet very few dare say that the emperor has no clothes---that our pres has socialist policies.

I hope the voters in the US in 2012 have more sense than the French and Greek voters, otherwise we're all doomed.

It's rather difficult given the choices.

txradioguy
05-07-2012, 02:18 AM
It's rather difficult given the choices.

Only because they are in a mess of their own creation.

Cradle to grave Big Government nanny state policies coupled with an increaseing laziness by the work force (30 hour work weeks) out of control Muslim immigration and the fact that the EU is this monolithic mess that is dragging down all member states.

Either the EU central government in Brussels is going to have to let member countries have some manuver room with interest rates and currency fluctuation to control their economic messes or the EU as we know it today won't last another five years.

I may actually live to see the return of individual currency in each country again so I can continue my collection.

Novaheart
05-07-2012, 08:18 AM
Only because they are in a mess of their own creation.

Cradle to grave Big Government nanny state policies coupled with an increaseing laziness by the work force (30 hour work weeks) out of control Muslim immigration and the fact that the EU is this monolithic mess that is dragging down all member states.

Either the EU central government in Brussels is going to have to let member countries have some manuver room with interest rates and currency fluctuation to control their economic messes or the EU as we know it today won't last another five years.

I may actually live to see the return of individual currency in each country again so I can continue my collection.

I meant the difficulty of the face that our choices in the US are Obama and Romney. In a country of 310million people, it's inexcusable that these are our choices.

Odysseus
05-07-2012, 09:08 AM
What I don't understand is how no one seems to be saying the obvious---the new leader of France is a self-proclaimed socialist. Our current leader basically has the same policies, yet very few dare say that the emperor has no clothes---that our pres has socialist policies.

I hope the voters in the US in 2012 have more sense than the French and Greek voters, otherwise we're all doomed.

France has been run by the Socialists before. It's their further-left party. Mitterand was a Socialist (as well as a WWII collaborator with the Germans, those socialists sure stick together), and he was instrumental in getting France into the EUrozone mess.


I don't think so. I think the backlash to this and the illegal immigration is that a public perception will rise that Hitler was not wrong, he simply had some wrong ideas and methods. It's a little scary.

Take the Nazi and the antisemitism out, and I think you'll find grip in the "pan-Aryan" world.

wiki:

In terms of neo-Nazism, the Fourth Reich is envisioned as featuring Aryan supremacy, anti-Semitism, Lebensraum, aggressive militarism and totalitarianism. Upon the establishment of the Fourth Reich, German neo-Nazis propose that Germany should acquire nuclear weapons and use the threat of their use to re-expand to Germany's former boundaries as of 1937. [1]

Subsequently, many neo-Nazis came to believe, based on pamphlets published by David Myatt in the early 1990s, that the rise of the Fourth Reich in Germany would pave the way for the establishment of the Western Imperium, a pan-Aryan world empire encompassing all land populated by predominantly European-descended peoples (i.e., Europe, Russia, Anglo-America, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, Southern South America, and other significantly white countries in Latin America).[2]

[edit]

It's hard to take the antisemitism out of Europe. European intellectuals have always been antisemitic, especially the British, French, Dutch and Norwegians. Norway and France had active collaborationist governments during WWII which exceeded the Nazi demands for deportations of Jews, while Britain kept Jews from emigrating to Palestine, despite the fact that they desperately needed the manpower (Jews tried to join the British army en masse, but were restricted to one regiment and separate battalions within other regiments). Meanwhile, the British desperately tried to recruit Arabs, but were hampered by their sympathies for the Germans (in some cases, there were Arab revolts in British territories on behalf of the Germans, including an Egyptian plot involving Egyptian officers sabotaging the British for Rommel).


Only because they are in a mess of their own creation.

Cradle to grave Big Government nanny state policies coupled with an increaseing laziness by the work force (30 hour work weeks) out of control Muslim immigration and the fact that the EU is this monolithic mess that is dragging down all member states.

Either the EU central government in Brussels is going to have to let member countries have some manuver room with interest rates and currency fluctuation to control their economic messes or the EU as we know it today won't last another five years.

I may actually live to see the return of individual currency in each country again so I can continue my collection.

The EU central government has no reason for existence if the single currency goes away. The whole point of the EU was to create a European state that would rival the US, and monetary union is both a critical function of unifying their state, and the most prominent symbol of it. Even allowing a country to leave the Eurozone could be seen as seccession from Europe, something that Brussels cannot allow. They will fight to perpetuate their control of Europe, which is why they will end up in a major conflict with the Greeks, who are rebelling against central fiscal control (and fiscal sanity, but that's another issue).

Given that the EU cannot allow Greece to leave without watching the whole thing come apart (Greece, Italy, Ireland, Spain and Portugal are all in the same boat, with varying rates of sinking), but they cannot allow Greece's economic autonomy to bring down the whole thing. If I had to make a prediction, I'd guess that, under the excuse of "restoring order" against the rioters, we will see troops from the EU (Germany or France or both) enter Greece sometime in the next decade. With those troops will come economic mandates.

Rockntractor
05-07-2012, 11:35 AM
This should tell us something as conservatives, when a country is in trouble because of overspending and to many social programs they don't cry for conservatives to come in and rescue them, they want socialists to do socialism better, they want more hand outs and bigger government safety nets.
The democratic world is not going to choose more conservative and more responsible social programs, they will go broke and crumble and dictators will seize the opportunity to rule and use the people.
Democratic republics don't spring from chaotic masses, they come from morally responsible God fearing people that group together for a better life, I don't see any majorities of responsible people anywhere.

JB
05-07-2012, 04:25 PM
News today Greece just voted out their leaders.Are there any Jews in Greece? They better get the hell outta there.

First, the Muslim Brotherhood. Now, the Neo-Nazis. Jews in Greece have to be thinking "WTF, are you shitting me".

JB
05-07-2012, 04:27 PM
Old Europe is doomed.Germany will finally conquer Europe. Without firing a shot this time.

Odysseus
05-07-2012, 04:37 PM
Are there any Jews in Greece? They better get the hell outta there.

First, the Muslim Brotherhood. Now, the Neo-Nazis. Jews in Greece have to be thinking "WTF, are you shitting me".

There are not too many Jews in Greece. The Nazis had several years in which to deport Jews from Greece when they occupied the country.


Germany will finally conquer Europe. Without firing a shot this time.

And while Germany conquers Europe, Islam will conquer Germany from within. The irony abounds.

JB
05-07-2012, 04:46 PM
And while Germany conquers Europe, Islam will conquer Germany from within. The irony abounds.Islam is taking hold in Germany? Despite their attempted bravado France is not long for this world, Spain isn't too far behind and Britain will go kicking and screaming, just didn't think Germany was giving in so easily.

Give 'em hell Poland.

Arroyo_Doble
05-07-2012, 04:53 PM
Germany will finally conquer Europe. Without firing a shot this time.

They already did. Now they are just irritated that they have to pay for it.

Apocalypse
05-07-2012, 07:01 PM
Can any one say Irony?

Via Beltway Confidential (http://campaign2012.washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/beltway-confidential/wh-france-dont-end-austerity-measures/525066):

President Obama’s spokesman warned the new socialist president-elect of France not to implement his campaign agenda of ending austerity measures, indicating that such a reversal could damage the world economy.


“A balanced approach . . . Both fiscal consolidation and efforts to boost the recovery is the right approach for Europe,” White House Press Secretary Jay Carney told reporters today. “That’s an approach that he thinks ensures that the recovery continues while putting our fiscal house in order.”

Gina
05-07-2012, 07:39 PM
Can any one say Irony?

Via Beltway Confidential (http://campaign2012.washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/beltway-confidential/wh-france-dont-end-austerity-measures/525066):

President Obama’s spokesman warned the new socialist president-elect of France not to implement his campaign agenda of ending austerity measures, indicating that such a reversal could damage the world economy.


“A balanced approach . . . Both fiscal consolidation and efforts to boost the recovery is the right approach for Europe,” White House Press Secretary Jay Carney told reporters today. “That’s an approach that he thinks ensures that the recovery continues while putting our fiscal house in order.”


That's really sickening.

Odysseus
05-08-2012, 08:40 AM
They already did. Now they are just irritated that they have to pay for it.

No, they're already paying for it. Now they want an accounting and some reductions in spending.

The Euro never made sense. The various European economies are incompatible with each other, and without a single, central budget authority, this was bound to happen sooner or later. The issue for the US is whether NATO will continue with the various member states at each other's throats over economic issues.

The Greek elections have resulted in another stalemate, with no one able to form a government (and the Neo-Nazi party taking 7% of the vote, which means that they will have seats in parliament for the first time ever). France's vote is basically a temper tantrum over having to pay bills that they never thought would come due, and is also a slap at Brussels, which needs the larger economies to cover the failures of the smaller ones. The real question is whether Germany will remain part of this fiasco, now that France has abrogated its role as one of the two adults in the room.

DumbAss Tanker
05-08-2012, 11:25 AM
Holy Shit.

Oh well, I never wanted to go there anyway. Too many old buildings...:biggrin-new:

Or to quote a friend of mine, on a TDY trip to Germany years ago: "Museum? What do I wanna go to that for, we got museums in Brooklyn."

Based on what Hollande is promising, this can't possibly end well for France or the Euro. In a painful way even for them, it does advance Germany's ambition to be the dominant Central European power. Effects on us are pretty unpredictable, but certain to strengthen the dollar in the short and mid-term which is good for some of us and bad for others.

Tipsycatlover
05-08-2012, 11:25 AM
France has almost no choice but to fall to islam. All of Europe will be at war within a short time. France will refuse to cut their bloated government and demand that Germany continue its support. Germany will refuse.

Apocalypse
05-08-2012, 04:32 PM
The real question is whether Germany will remain part of this fiasco, now that France has abrogated its role as one of the two adults in the room.

I highly doubt they will. Germany is now starting to feel the recession them selves. On top of that, many Germans don't feel its their responsibility to bail out all of Europe. A Germans first mentality. Which I can't blame them. If France backs out and dumps this all in Germany's lap. Germany will have no choice but to walk away. They can't float all of Europe, and wont if the others refuse to do what they need to in order to get solvent.

fettpett
05-08-2012, 09:37 PM
No, they're already paying for it. Now they want an accounting and some reductions in spending.

The Euro never made sense. The various European economies are incompatible with each other, and without a single, central budget authority, this was bound to happen sooner or later. The issue for the US is whether NATO will continue with the various member states at each other's throats over economic issues.


agreed. I've read articles about how various countries such as Germany had started getting fed up about all the new workers from other countries coming in pulling down wages for the citizens as they had to let them in due to the treaties.

m00
05-08-2012, 10:09 PM
This should tell us something as conservatives, when a country is in trouble because of overspending and to many social programs they don't cry for conservatives to come in and rescue them, they want socialists to do socialism better, they want more hand outs and bigger government safety nets.
The democratic world is not going to choose more conservative and more responsible social programs, they will go broke and crumble and dictators will seize the opportunity to rule and use the people.
Democratic republics don't spring from chaotic masses, they come from morally responsible God fearing people that group together for a better life, I don't see any majorities of responsible people anywhere.

I think what people need to remember is that Hollade is the first president on the left since I think the 70s. So you can't exactly blame the socialists for getting France into this mess.

Sarkozy was on the right. Not even center-right, but right-right by French standards, so probably center-right by US standards. Sarkozy also was an incredibly corrupt industrialist. Chirac was also on the right (although more center) and also incredibly corrupt. People voted for Hollande because they wanted change.

The real lesson for the US is that a bad president (or really, a series of bad presidents) who wave the flag of conservatism and destroy a country will sour people's taste for the ideals they espouse.

Rockntractor
05-08-2012, 10:13 PM
The real lesson for the US is that a bad president (or really, a series of bad presidents) who wave the flag of conservatism and destroy a country will sour people's taste for the ideals they espouse.

In the long run they only punish themselves, my only question now is how long before Europe is at war?

DumbAss Tanker
05-09-2012, 12:45 AM
In the long run they only punish themselves, my only question now is how long before Europe is at war?

Probably not an issue - they can't afford to arm up for it without shooting those lavish social programs in the ass, causing revolution before they could use their military to make war on anyone else.

Rockntractor
05-09-2012, 12:59 AM
When countries and people run out of money it seems like that's when wars start, it doesn't have to make sense.

m00
05-09-2012, 01:22 AM
Probably not an issue - they can't afford to arm up for it without shooting those lavish social programs in the ass, causing revolution before they could use their military to make war on anyone else.

France is a serious military power already. Their military-spending-to-GPD is quite high. They have one of the largest armies in Europe.

DumbAss Tanker
05-09-2012, 10:18 AM
France is a serious military power already. Their military-spending-to-GPD is quite high. They have one of the largest armies in Europe.

In a "Tallest midget" sense there is some truth to that, if I was Belgium I'd be sweating...if Belgium had anything for France to take they didn't own already.

Grow up and stop slapping the panic button, people.

bijou
05-09-2012, 02:51 PM
Looks like another Greek election is looming

Syriza leader Alexis Tsipras failed to find coalition partners in his attempt to form a government and will hand back the mandate to President Karolos Papoulias tomorrow, an official with the party told reporters in Athens today.
Insistence by Pasok and New Democracy (http://topics.bloomberg.com/new-democracy/), two of the three biggest parties in the parliament, on sticking to the terms of an international bailout makes it impossible for Syriza to govern with them, the official said.


http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-05-09/syriza-fails-to-form-greek-government-party-official-says.html

Odysseus
05-09-2012, 04:44 PM
In a "Tallest midget" sense there is some truth to that, if I was Belgium I'd be sweating...if Belgium had anything for France to take they didn't own already.

Grow up and stop slapping the panic button, people.

The French Socialists may succeed in enacting their agenda, but keep in mind that the EU permits unrestricted immigration and that France's taxes don't go past its borders, and you have a formula for capital flight. When the tax rate hits 75% on the wealthy, the wealthy will hit the borders with all of their assets. When that happens, watch France's economy topple.

The really scary thing is not the possibility that the French will invade Belgium (or anywhere else, for that matter, a troop of Girl Scouts could defend the borders and not be overwhelmed by Gallic military prowess), it's that the collapse of the Eurozone will topple the economies of most of the European Union members. The dollar is backed by the full faith and credit of the United States, but the Euro is backed by the best wishes of the Germans and French. None of the other economies have enough equity to back it. If France abandons fiscal restraint and alienates its productive class, we will see their economy tank, and the Euro with it. Germany cannot hold it up alone, and won't want to. As the Euro tanks, we can expect to hear a few choruses of Deutzchemarks uber alles across the Siegfried Line.

But, what happens when the rest of Europe suddenly finds itself trying to deal with a worthless currency? The benefits packages that the social democracies touted as being somehow superior to capitalism will become completely unsustainable and collapse in a very short time. Those pensioners who objected to having to work past the age of 50 will now have to try to reenter the work force, which won't be receptive to making room, especially when unemployment starts to skyrocket. Throw in a violent subculture of ghettoized, militant Islamic welfare recipients suddenly confronted with having their checks cut off, or worse, rendered worthless by runaway inflation, and the stage is set for serious, violent anarchy. The only question is how quickly the hit will happen, and how violent the reaction will be. Old Europe could look very much like older Europe (circa 1848), complete with barricades, within a couple of years.

If I were in Britain, I'd be looking into finding a way to seal up the Chunnel, fast.

Molon Labe
05-09-2012, 06:40 PM
See...it took 2 decades for all the idiots who voted for the last socialist that screwed up France's economy to die off or forget those days that there is a new generation that believes all the Socialist bull. Kinda like when I was young and my peers thought the damn 60s were really so great.

m00
05-09-2012, 08:23 PM
In a "Tallest midget" sense there is some truth to that, if I was Belgium I'd be sweating...if Belgium had anything for France to take they didn't own already.

Grow up and stop slapping the panic button, people.

Yeah, but like... if you look at world military powers, it's US, China... Russia... Everyone else. Of the "everyone else category" France is doing quite well. Don't forget, they have nukes (in fact, they have very solid nuclear technology). That's all I'm saying. But really I just wanted to point out that the mess France is in has nothing to do with the socialist party. Which is not saying that Hollande's policies will improve anything, other than the fact that not having rampant theft and corruption is generally better than having it, all other policies aside.

Wibbins
05-10-2012, 10:46 AM
I think what people need to remember is that Hollade is the first president on the left since I think the 70s. So you can't exactly blame the socialists for getting France into this mess.

Sarkozy was on the right. Not even center-right, but right-right by French standards, so probably center-right by US standards. Sarkozy also was an incredibly corrupt industrialist. Chirac was also on the right (although more center) and also incredibly corrupt. People voted for Hollande because they wanted change.

The real lesson for the US is that a bad president (or really, a series of bad presidents) who wave the flag of conservatism and destroy a country will sour people's taste for the ideals they espouse.


You have to understand that 'right wing' in Europe is still left of center, it's like they get so close to being over the center hump but then trip at the finish line, i.e Saying taxes will be raised in a few months to encourage spending, it says lower taxes encourages spending, but they can't seem to grasp lowering taxes to encourage spending which would allow more revenue since those goods would be taxed at the sale.


That's what we call "liberal logic"