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Arroyo_Doble
05-09-2012, 04:37 PM
Why Do They Hate Us?

The real war on women is in the Middle East.

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/files/fp_uploaded_images/120419_quote4.jpg


Then there's Egypt, where less than a month after President Hosni Mubarak stepped down, the military junta that replaced him, ostensibly to "protect the revolution," inadvertently reminded us of the two revolutions we women need. After it cleared Tahrir Square of protesters, the military detained dozens of male and female activists. Tyrants oppress, beat, and torture all. We know. But these officers reserved "virginity tests" for female activists: rape disguised as a medical doctor inserting his fingers into their vaginal opening in search of hymens. (The doctor was sued and eventually acquitted in March.)

What hope can there be for women in the new Egyptian parliament, dominated as it is by men stuck in the seventh century? A quarter of those parliamentary seats are now held by Salafis, who believe that mimicking the original ways of the Prophet Mohammed is an appropriate prescription for modern life. Last fall, when fielding female candidates, Egypt's Salafi Nour Party ran a flower in place of each woman's face. Women are not to be seen or heard -- even their voices are a temptation -- so there they are in the Egyptian parliament, covered from head to toe in black and never uttering a word.

And we're in the middle of a revolution in Egypt! It's a revolution in which women have died, been beaten, shot at, and sexually assaulted fighting alongside men to rid our country of that uppercase Patriarch -- Mubarak -- yet so many lowercase patriarchs still oppress us. The Muslim Brotherhood, with almost half the total seats in our new revolutionary parliament, does not believe women (or Christians for that matter) can be president. The woman who heads the "women's committee" of the Brotherhood's political party said recently that women should not march or protest because it's more "dignified" to let their husbands and brothers demonstrate for them.

The hatred of women goes deep in Egyptian society. Those of us who have marched and protested have had to navigate a minefield of sexual assaults by both the regime and its lackeys, and, sadly, at times by our fellow revolutionaries. On the November day I was sexually assaulted on Mohamed Mahmoud Street near Tahrir Square, by at least four Egyptian riot police, I was first groped by a man in the square itself. While we are eager to expose assaults by the regime, when we're violated by our fellow civilians we immediately assume they're agents of the regime or thugs because we don't want to taint the revolution.
http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2012/04/23/why_do_they_hate_us?page=0,3

Rockntractor
05-09-2012, 07:10 PM
We need a link Dolby.

Odysseus
05-10-2012, 12:08 AM
Are you coming out as an Egyptian woman now?

Rockntractor
05-10-2012, 12:10 AM
Are you coming out as an Egyptian woman now?

Oh not Arroyo, his mummy was Egyptian!

Arroyo_Doble
05-10-2012, 08:32 AM
We need a link Dolby.

The Link (http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2012/04/23/why_do_they_hate_us)

Wibbins
05-10-2012, 10:29 AM
Liberals say that muslim women are not "objectified" like western women.... Funny, I'm pretty sure if a muslim man sees the ankle of a women, or something, he's so tempted that he rapes her, then it becomes HER fault and she is either jailed, forced to marry her rapist, her family kills her to restore their honor, she is stoned as punishment(not the hippy kind), or beheaded.





I just LOVE that peaceful religion. Libs love bringing the crusades into the argument about Christianity not being peaceful, but they don't understand that the crusades, from what I've read, were basically the retaliation to the muslim aggression.

Odysseus
05-10-2012, 12:48 PM
The Link (http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2012/04/23/why_do_they_hate_us)

Okay, so you've discovered Islamic misogyny. Well done.

BTW, this paragraph in the article ought to be required reading:


But let's put aside what the United States does or doesn't do to women. Name me an Arab country, and I'll recite a litany of abuses fueled by a toxic mix of culture and religion that few seem willing or able to disentangle lest they blaspheme or offend. When more than 90 percent of ever-married women in Egypt -- including my mother and all but one of her six sisters -- have had their genitals cut in the name of modesty, then surely we must all blaspheme. When Egyptian women are subjected to humiliating "virginity tests" merely for speaking out, it's no time for silence. When an article in the Egyptian criminal code says that if a woman has been beaten by her husband "with good intentions" no punitive damages can be obtained, then to hell with political correctness. And what, pray tell, are "good intentions"? They are legally deemed to include any beating that is "not severe" or "directed at the face." What all this means is that when it comes to the status of women in the Middle East, it's not better than you think. It's much, much worse. Even after these "revolutions," all is more or less considered well with the world as long as women are covered up, anchored to the home, denied the simple mobility of getting into their own cars, forced to get permission from men to travel, and unable to marry without a male guardian's blessing -- or divorce either.



Now, here's the problem: This is a cultural issue that transcends borders. Islamic immigrants bring many of the practices here, to the US, including honor killings, forced marriage, marital rape and assaults against women who do not meet Islamic standards of "modesty". Now, what are you going to do about it?

noonwitch
05-10-2012, 01:36 PM
Liberals say that muslim women are not "objectified" like western women.... Funny, I'm pretty sure if a muslim man sees the ankle of a women, or something, he's so tempted that he rapes her, then it becomes HER fault and she is either jailed, forced to marry her rapist, her family kills her to restore their honor, she is stoned as punishment(not the hippy kind), or beheaded.





I just LOVE that peaceful religion. Libs love bringing the crusades into the argument about Christianity not being peaceful, but they don't understand that the crusades, from what I've read, were basically the retaliation to the muslim aggression.


Just one of many reasons I don't post at DU anymore. I am a feminist-if I claim that the FLDS, for example, exploits women with it's polygamy/child bride practices, then it would be hypocritical not to note that there are far worse abuses within Islam.

Despite that, I love the muslims in my community, of which there are many. There is an established arab/muslim community in metro Detroit, that has been here for a long time. Most of the arabs in Dearborn are from Syria and Lebanon, and are not extreme in their practices. Most, but not all, obviously. All one has to do is drive through east Dearborn and observe the variety of ways that the women dress. The restaurant where I got my lunch today is a family owned place-the young woman who runs the business end wears a hijab, but otherwise is dressed in western clothing. She said that her father (the owner and head cook) doesn't care about that stuff, that's why her sister who works there doesn't wear the hijab. She told me that her husband promised her that if she wore a hijab daily, he would make sure that she always had beautiful scarves to wear as such. This was after I complimented her on a particularly beautiful hijab.

NJCardFan
05-10-2012, 03:38 PM
I just LOVE that peaceful religion. Libs love bringing the crusades into the argument about Christianity not being peaceful, but they don't understand that the crusades, from what I've read, were basically the retaliation to the muslim aggression.

Not to mention that the crusades were 1,000 years ago.

Odysseus
05-10-2012, 04:42 PM
Not to mention that the crusades were 1,000 years ago.

And a response to the Islamic conquests of the Christian kingdoms of the Levant. The Muslims and their apologists omit that information when they discuss history.

Arroyo_Doble
05-11-2012, 08:59 AM
Just one of many reasons I don't post at DU anymore. I am a feminist-if I claim that the FLDS, for example, exploits women with it's polygamy/child bride practices, then it would be hypocritical not to note that there are far worse abuses within Islam.

Despite that, I love the muslims in my community, of which there are many. There is an established arab/muslim community in metro Detroit, that has been here for a long time. Most of the arabs in Dearborn are from Syria and Lebanon, and are not extreme in their practices. Most, but not all, obviously. All one has to do is drive through east Dearborn and observe the variety of ways that the women dress. The restaurant where I got my lunch today is a family owned place-the young woman who runs the business end wears a hijab, but otherwise is dressed in western clothing. She said that her father (the owner and head cook) doesn't care about that stuff, that's why her sister who works there doesn't wear the hijab. She told me that her husband promised her that if she wore a hijab daily, he would make sure that she always had beautiful scarves to wear as such. This was after I complimented her on a particularly beautiful hijab.

I have a friend from Bosnia who is Muslim. I have never even seen her in a hijab.

Perhaps she is like the Catholics who wear condoms.

Odysseus
05-11-2012, 09:05 AM
I have a friend from Bosnia who is Muslim. I have never even seen her in a hijab.

Perhaps she is like the Catholics who wear condoms.

Let's hope that her co-religionists never see her without a hijab. The results could be catastrophic for her.

Arroyo_Doble
05-11-2012, 09:21 AM
Let's hope that her co-religionists never see her without a hijab. The results could be catastrophic for her.

I think she can handle bad things. She was a teenager in Sarajevo during the siege.

Odysseus
05-11-2012, 09:23 AM
I think she can handle bad things. She was a teenager in Sarajevo during the siege.

Kind of missed my point. She shouldn't have to handle those kinds of bad things in America.

Rockntractor
05-11-2012, 09:28 AM
Kind of missed my point. She shouldn't have to handle those kinds of bad things in America.

Also he is being naive, if the local Imam decides she should be dealt with it won't matter how supposedly tough she is, her neck will yield to a knife.

noonwitch
05-11-2012, 10:07 AM
I have a friend from Bosnia who is Muslim. I have never even seen her in a hijab.

Perhaps she is like the Catholics who wear condoms.

We have a community of Bosnian muslims in Hamtramck. The women there don't wear the hijab, but some of the older women wear the traditional headscarves that a lot of eastern european/slavic women wear, tied on the back of the head, under the hair.

I have a friend who is of Serbian descent. He says there is no such thing as Bosnians, that they are muslim Serbs.

Odysseus
05-11-2012, 10:11 AM
Also he is being naive, if the local Imam decides she should be dealt with it won't matter how supposedly tough she is, her neck will yield to a knife.

He's not being naive, he's being obtuse. By eliminating the broader context, he can present each incident of Islamic violence as an isolated event, and pretend that the trend isn't an issue. It's the same trick that the appeasers used prior to WWII, when each German demand was treated in isolation, and the longterm implications were ignored. Tear up the Treaty of Versailles and rearm? Other nations have standing forces, don't they? Why should Germany be singled out? Militarize the Rhineland? It's their territory, so why not? Unification with Austria? Well, they do all speak the same language and share a common culture, so again, why not? Occupy the Sudentenland? What do we care? They are a faraway people about whom we know very little. Invade Poland? Uh... Okay, that's a problem...

Taken in isolation, these seem to be petty issues, but in context, each of these acts gradually strengthened Germany and weakened the Allies. The Treaty of Versailles singled out Germany because German mobilization in support of Austria against Serbia was the critical event that made WWI inevitable, and the German violations of the neutrality of Belgium and Holland were unprecedented acts. Germany had also fought a series of aggressive wars against France prior to WWI, and the Treaty was meant to curtail further aggression. The militarization of the Rhineland gave Germany a frontier of defensive and offensive capabilities, whose sole purpose was to threaten France. Unification with Austria increased the manpower and industrial capacity of Germany and made it a greater threat. The occupation of Czechoslovakia gave Germany control over key terrain on its eastern border, negated the strong professional army that the Czechs had established and put the Czech arms industry under Germany control (many of the tanks in the Blitz across France were Czech-made). It also further isolated France and Britain, and made war more, not less, likely.

Now, let's look at Islam in the west: Establishment of enclaves within major urban centers? Demands for concessions that other religions do not enjoy? Imposition of Sharia norms within the enclaves? Restriction of free movement of non-Muslims in those enclaves? Use of those enclaves as staging areas for jihad? Violent attacks on non-Muslims, to include rape, as a religious duty and a means to stifle opposition? Using the threat of violence to extract further concessions? Demands that the enclaves be treated by the civil authorities as independent Islamic territories?

Again, taken one by one, these things don't look horrific, especially the first few stages, but only by ignoring the trend lines can Arroyo pretend that this is not a critical danger to us.