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View Full Version : Plea deals often suck



Vepr
06-09-2008, 09:13 PM
She is a waste of our air.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080609/ap_on_re_us/cut_from_womb

Phillygirl
06-09-2008, 09:16 PM
I can't believe this woman is sane.

Zeus
06-09-2008, 09:21 PM
I can't believe this woman is sane.

The arguement could be made that anyone that commits a murder is not sane.

Yea plea deals at times seem like a bad deal but in this case the perp saved her life & saved the state a bunch of money and the victums family get a modicum of closure.

Phillygirl
06-09-2008, 09:23 PM
The arguement could be made that anyone that commits a murder is not sane.

Yea plea deals at times seem like a bad deal but in this case the perp saved her life & saved the state a bunch of money and the victums family get a modicum of closure.

I disagree. A lot of murders are rational. These were not. Not in the least. You don't methodically kill children and still be considered sane.

Zeus
06-09-2008, 09:26 PM
I disagree. A lot of murders are rational. These were not. Not in the least. You don't methodically kill children and still be considered sane.

Child or adult murder no difference it's still murder. The child aspect of it just gets a ,for lack of better word.a more emotional response.

Phillygirl
06-09-2008, 09:28 PM
Child or adult murder no difference it's still murder. The child aspect of it just gets a ,for lack of better word.a more emotional response.


No. You kill a child after you rape him in order to hide the evidence. That is rational. You kill multiple children after killing their mother because....well, that just doesn't make sense. Killing because someone didn't hand over their wallet fast enough..yeah, I can see the rationale in that.

This one just doesn't make any kind of sense whatsoever.

The state kills all the time. It's rational. It may or may not be wrong. But it's rational.

Zeus
06-09-2008, 09:45 PM
No. You kill a child after you rape him in order to hide the evidence. That is rational. You kill multiple children after killing their mother because....well, that just doesn't make sense. Killing because someone didn't hand over their wallet fast enough..yeah, I can see the rationale in that.

This one just doesn't make any kind of sense whatsoever.

The state kills all the time. It's rational. It may or may not be wrong. But it's rational.

therein lies the rub. Trying to rationalize irrational behavior with emotional bias tossed in for good measure. A fallibility of us mere mortals.

gator
06-09-2008, 09:47 PM
No. You kill a child after you rape him in order to hide the evidence. That is rational. You kill multiple children after killing their mother because....well, that just doesn't make sense. Killing because someone didn't hand over their wallet fast enough..yeah, I can see the rationale in that.

This one just doesn't make any kind of sense whatsoever.

The state kills all the time. It's rational. It may or may not be wrong. But it's rational.

Have you been drinking again tonight, Sweetie?

MrsSmith
06-09-2008, 10:33 PM
I agree with Philly. This is over-the-top insane. There was nothing even remotely rational about getting the other kids from their father and killing them all.

AlmostThere
06-10-2008, 12:36 AM
I agree with Philly. This is over-the-top insane. There was nothing even remotely rational about getting the other kids from their father and killing them all.

What would you suggest be done with this woman considering your opinion on her mental state?

Also Zeus made the argument that the state saved a bunch of money. Illinois will spend about 1.5 million supporting her assuming a normal lifespan. I have no idea what her trial and appeals would cost but personally, whatever the cost, I'd want her on a gurney with a needle in her arm.

Zeus
06-10-2008, 01:19 AM
What would you suggest be done with this woman considering your opinion on her mental state?

Also Zeus made the argument that the state saved a bunch of money. Illinois will spend about 1.5 million supporting her assuming a normal lifespan. I have no idea what her trial and appeals would cost but personally, whatever the cost, I'd want her on a gurney with a needle in her arm.

My personal opinion she should be put down for the animal she is. Given that the State ,the perpetrater & family of the victums are in agreement justice is served. Everyone involved got something out of the deal, The state spared the expense of a trial,the woman saved her life and the family of the victum gets closure.

Phillygirl
06-10-2008, 07:30 AM
therein lies the rub. Trying to rationalize irrational behavior with emotional bias tossed in for good measure. A fallibility of us mere mortals.


You and I differ. You believe that killing in and of itself is irrational. I do not. Immorality is not inherently irrational. And pointing out irrationality is not emotionally driven.

Zeus
06-10-2008, 08:05 AM
You and I differ. You believe that killing in and of itself is irrational. I do not. Immorality is not inherently irrational. And pointing out irrationality is not emotionally driven.

Not all killing is irrational,for example self defense. I didn't say pointing out irrationality is emotionally driven. I did say it shouldn't matter whether a murder victum was an adult or a child they were still murdered. making the diffentiation is the emotional aspect of it. it's llike scum A murders an adult and the state executes scum A. Scum B murders a child,whats the state to do execute Scum B twice,

noonwitch
06-10-2008, 08:39 AM
She's not going to get a chance to kill anyone else. With an IQ of 70, it's highly unlikely that she will be able to escape from prison, and with that IQ of 70, she's probably not going to be a real difficult inmate once she gets the routine down.

Yet again, the fact that the crimes ocurred in separate instances-killing the mother and baby, then killing the other kids. There's something about that that says "crazy", but also that tells me that perhaps the 70 IQ is a lawyer's attempt to gain sympathy for the poor, crazy, retarded woman. A good daily dose of Depakote should keep her from ever causing too much trouble.

Gingersnap
06-10-2008, 09:49 AM
She's not going to get a chance to kill anyone else. With an IQ of 70, it's highly unlikely that she will be able to escape from prison, and with that IQ of 70, she's probably not going to be a real difficult inmate once she gets the routine down.

Yet again, the fact that the crimes ocurred in separate instances-killing the mother and baby, then killing the other kids. There's something about that that says "crazy", but also that tells me that perhaps the 70 IQ is a lawyer's attempt to gain sympathy for the poor, crazy, retarded woman. A good daily dose of Depakote should keep her from ever causing too much trouble.

This is what I was thinking. I doubt she is quite that dumb. It took some planning and deception to carry out this crime.

I don't know if she is insane or not but she is a monster.

Phillygirl
06-10-2008, 10:06 AM
Not all killing is irrational,for example self defense. I didn't say pointing out irrationality is emotionally driven. I did say it shouldn't matter whether a murder victum was an adult or a child they were still murdered. making the diffentiation is the emotional aspect of it. it's llike scum A murders an adult and the state executes scum A. Scum B murders a child,whats the state to do execute Scum B twice,

The reason for the murders is what makes me look at the victims and whether they are adults or children. In this case, there was no rational reason for her to kill the other children. There is even a semi-rational reason to kill the mother if the goal was to get the fetus and call the baby her own. Going after the other children and methodically killing them makes no sense and is what tells me she is not sane. It may appear to be emotional, but it is not. Motive is a very rational process...albeit frequently not moral. This case does not seem to have the earmarks of a rational or sane person.

MrsSmith
06-10-2008, 07:20 PM
What would you suggest be done with this woman considering your opinion on her mental state?

Also Zeus made the argument that the state saved a bunch of money. Illinois will spend about 1.5 million supporting her assuming a normal lifespan. I have no idea what her trial and appeals would cost but personally, whatever the cost, I'd want her on a gurney with a needle in her arm.

I would like to see her become sane enough to truly regret her actions.

Phillygirl
06-10-2008, 07:25 PM
I would like to see her become sane enough to truly regret her actions.

I think the knowledge of that would drive someone to insanity. It would me.

MrsSmith
06-10-2008, 07:45 PM
I think the knowledge of that would drive someone to insanity. It would me.

Yeah, but it's the fairest way to go. She should understand what she's done. It also gives her a chance to regret it enough to repent.

Phillygirl
06-10-2008, 07:48 PM
Yeah, but it's the fairest way to go. She should understand what she's done. It also gives her a chance to regret it enough to repent.

I won't get into the repenting part of it...but honestly, just thinking about the horror of those crimes wreaks havoc on my own brain. I can't imagine having committed any of them.

Zeus
06-10-2008, 09:06 PM
The reason for the murders is what makes me look at the victims and whether they are adults or children. In this case, there was no rational reason for her to kill the other children. There is even a semi-rational reason to kill the mother if the goal was to get the fetus and call the baby her own. Going after the other children and methodically killing them makes no sense and is what tells me she is not sane. It may appear to be emotional, but it is not. Motive is a very rational process...albeit frequently not moral. This case does not seem to have the earmarks of a rational or sane person.

Bloodlust. Maybe after the first murder she realized what she had done and was inescapably wraught with the situation and her coocoo breaker tripped ??

MrsSmith
06-10-2008, 09:10 PM
I won't get into the repenting part of it...but honestly, just thinking about the horror of those crimes wreaks havoc on my own brain. I can't imagine having committed any of them.

Yeah. I've only watched one person die. To watch several people die, by my hand, especially children...the stuff of nightmares. But the most insane among us enjoy the "power" given them by the murder of the innocent. Also the stuff of nightmares.

AlmostThere
06-18-2008, 05:57 PM
She's not going to get a chance to kill anyone else. With an IQ of 70, it's highly unlikely that she will be able to escape from prison, and with that IQ of 70, she's probably not going to be a real difficult inmate once she gets the routine down.

Yet again, the fact that the crimes ocurred in separate instances-killing the mother and baby, then killing the other kids. There's something about that that says "crazy", but also that tells me that perhaps the 70 IQ is a lawyer's attempt to gain sympathy for the poor, crazy, retarded woman. A good daily dose of Depakote should keep her from ever causing too much trouble.
With a declared IQ of 70 I think her likelihood of escape increases dramatically with every assessment some psychologist makes. When she makes her break she'll have a bunch of guys in black robes holding the doors open and carrying her bags. While she's waving goodbye, they'll apologize to her for the inconvenience.